Selected quad for the lemma: ground_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
ground_n	church_n	faith_n	point_n	2,842	5	7.1926	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A15508	Charity mistaken, with the want whereof, Catholickes are vniustly charged for affirming, as they do with grief, that Protestancy vnrepented destroies salvation.	Knott, Edward, 1582-1656.; Matthew, Tobie, Sir, 1577-1655, attributed author.; Potter, Christopher, 1591-1646.; Potter, Christopher, 1591-1646. Want of charitie justly charged.	1630 (1630)	STC 25774; ESTC S102197	54,556	140

sees cause or not to belieue any doctrine which is not fundamentall without incuring the sentence of damnation Vpon this it followes that there is nothing in all Christian Religion which according to their groundes it imports a man more exactly to learne then what is fundamentall and what not nor which it more imports the Doctours and guides of the Protestant Church to make knowne to all that people which they pretend to guide in the way of saluation And yet neuerthelesse there is absolutely no one thing which hath beene so frequently importunately desired as that they would giue in some exact list or Catalogue of all and the only fundamentall points of faith and yet is there no one thing wherein we are so litle satisfied and which vpon the matter they doe so absolutely refuse And yet as hath beene here expressed if according to their groundes a man should faile of belieueing any one fundamental point of faith by his not knowing ●hrough their fault that the point which he belieued not was fundamentall he must be sure to perish and that for euer But the Protestants are wise inough in their owne waye and well they know what they do in order to their owne ends both when they frame the distinction of fundamentall and not fundamētall points of faith and when also they refuse to giue in a Catalogue of which is which For by making first the distinction and then by concealing the particulars contained vnder the branches thereof they saue themselues harmeles amongst ignorant people from being cōuinced to be of a different Communion and Religion both from the Fathers of the primitiue Church on the one side and from their fellow sectaries of this age on the other Whereby they gaine a kind of reputation with their vulgar auditours and readers as if th●y maintained a sufficiency of vnity with both Whereas if either they framed not the distinction of fundamentall at all or else would clearly let men know which points alone were fundamentall then this would followe That whensoeuer we should conuince them of any particular doctrine which is denied by them and which yet was belieued by the ancient Fathers they would be obliged to professe that either that point was not fundamentall which would disable them from rayling at vs for belieuing the same or else that the Fathers were of a differēt Religion in fundamentall points from them and that in their opinion those very Fathers could not be saued which would put them to much preiudice another way And so vpon the same reason they would also either be forced to renounce the cōmunion of the Lutherās if they were found to differ from thē in fundamentall points of faith or else to avowe expresly that those points which they belieued differently from them were not fundamentall which would be of no lesse dāger disreputatiō to thē But now when we vrge them for example sake with the doctrine of praying to Saints of prayer for the dead or the like out of the ancient Fathers that once we bring them from denying via facti that the Fathers taught that doctrine which yet they will be sure to confesse as cautelously as they can they then tell vs streight that those Fathers were but men and had their errours We aske them then if those errours depriue them of saluation They say noe because those points forsooth were not fundamentall and thus as hath bene said they will seeme to keepe a kinde of quarter with the Fathers In the selfe same manner when we vrge them in the name of Lutherans with the Reall Presence of of the body of our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament of the Altar or with their casting the Epistle of S. Iames and diuerse others out of the Canon of holy Scripture by their forbearing to avowe and declare that these points of Religion are fundamentall they goe inuisible to the eyes of simple people and still make a shift to seeme to be in vnity with the Lutherans when yet the world knowes and we haue seene that Luther himselfe declared them directly to be heretickes Not only doth this distinction of their doctrines into fundamentall and not fundamentall saue their credits amongst weake mē by making them belieue that they ioyne in vnity of faith both with the Fathers of the primitiue Church and Lutherans but they enable themselues also thereby to affirme with some very litle shewe of colour though it haue no truth at all that they haue had a continuall visible Church in all the ages since Christ our Lord without being so easily detected to the contrary And their way is this When they are prest by vs to shew a continuall visible Church of their Religion which they know well inough that they are not able to produce those aduersaryes of ours who are of any ingenuity at all are wont clearely to confesse that indeede they haue had no continuall visible Church But so also they declare that there is no necessity at all that the Church must haue beene continually visible to the eyes of men The rest who see how absurde this doctrine is say that indeede there must alwayes haue bene a visible Church but then againe they subdiuide themselues in that opinion For some fewe of them affirme when they are vrged by vs to shewe that visible Church of theirs that theirs and ours do make but one true Church and so in shewing the visibity of ours they doe withall as they say shewe their owne to haue beene visible And these men treade in this way because they well know that no other Church but ours can indeed be shewed to haue beene visible through all ages since Christ our Lord. But a third sort of men there is who pretend to shewe a Church distinct from ours which hath continually been visible in the profession and practise of the Protestant Religion Wherein Fox hath shewed the way to the gees who follow him For in fine when they are put to name their particular professours of former ages they doe but muster vp those seuerall single false doctrines which haue been held by other heretickes by retayle during tenne or twelue ages since Christ our Lord many of which Doctrines together themselues doe now professe in grosse For what other men of former times did they euer or can they euer name as men of their Religion but such as belieued some one or two of those hereticall doctrines which now themselues embrace and wherein they are contrary to vs But by that reason our aduersaries might say as well that both they and we yea and all those others also are of one and the same Religion because we all agree together in many points though we differ in many more and though we be excommu●i●ated by one an other And if their belief may be examined whom our aduersaries cite out of former times as men to whose communion in Religiō they now lay claime it will be found as hath aboundantly beene prooued that

making euery toy to be Fūdamentall Where by the way he takes his pleasure vpon vs sayes that we Papists will not let Protestants be saued though they belieue the same Creede and the same faith with vs vnles withall they will belieue the same Mathematicks and gouerne thēselues by the same Kalēders which to omit other poornesses of his was soe weake and meane a iest so misbecoming of that Audience and of the place he helde as being fitter indeed for some Ordinary thē for a Chappel or Church and withall so very vntrue if he were in earnest that vnles the pride of his owne conceit had raised vp a dust to put out his eyes he could not but haue seene the senselesnes of what he said euen whilest he was speaking since we the Romane Catholickes in this kingdome do rather gouerne our selues at this day by the lesse perfect Kalender which now is vsed in this place then by the other which is both the better euen by the iudgment of learned Protestants is authorized by the Catholicke Church abroade Letting he world see thereby how willingly we can accommodate to them in all things which belong not meerely to Religion But Maister Doctour forgot himselfe worse shortly after For hauing grauely admonished mē before not to account things arbitrary to be necessary nor to call superstructions foundations nor to esteeme that euery little thing in Religion should be able to depriue a man of saluation he takes the paynes to wipe out with a wet finger the whole substance and drifte of all his owne discourse by saying to his effect That differēce in beliefe in points which are not very important is not to preiudice a mans saluation vnles by not belieuing them he commit a disobedience with all for saith he Obedience indeede is of the Essence of Religion Which vpon the whole matter is the very thing we say and the very thing whereby he crosses the whole scope of his owne sermon For if a mans disobediēce to the proposition and direction of the Church concerning an inferiour point of Doctrine do impugne the very essense of Religion it will follow that their distinctiō of points Fundamentall or not Fundamentall wherby they would inferre that a man can not loose his saluation but for misbelief in some few mayne points of Religion and not in the rest is absurd and vaine and detractiue both of Doctour Dunnes Doctrine last mentioned and of their owne obiection of vncharitablenes against vs for saying that men dying in different Religions cannot be saued And withall that this distinction will not secure them from committing the crime of separation from the Church of Christ our Lord and in swaruing from the directions thereof in which case all the Doctrines of the Church are found to be Fundamentall towards saluation And this shall serue for a dischardge both of what they obiect against our vnitie in faith and of what they alleadge in the behalfe of theirs And in the meane time I conceaue that I haue also sufficiently secured and settled those two mayne groundes vpon which this whole discourse is turned Namely first that there is but one true faith and one true Religion and Church out of which there is no saluation and secondly that both Catholickes and Protestants can not possible be accounted to be of that one Religion Church Faith And now for the finall proofe of this last point according euen to their practise as well as ours let my Reader but looke vpon the body of their lawes made against vs and especially vpon the Preambles thereof wherein they plentifully shew how hatefull an opinion they haue of our Church Let him looke vpon the seuerall Acts of State which haue issued from my Lords of the Counsell Let him looke vpō the proclamatiōs which haue beene made and published from time to time Let him looke vpon the large cōmissions which haue beene granted to Pursiuants whereby that scume of the world hath been and is enabled both to ransome ransacke vs at their pleasure Let him looke vpon those speeches which haue been vttered in both houses of Parliament not only against the professours but euen the profession it selfe of our Religion and how his most excellent Maiesty hath been importuned by their Petitions to add more weight to our miseries for thus it will easily be seene how false how rotten how superstitions how Idolatrous how detestable how damnable and euen destructiue of all truth and goodnes they professe themselues to esteeme our Religiō and in fine that we carry such a marke of the Beast in our foreheads as must needs in their opinion shut vp the gates of Heauen against vs and set open the iawes of Hell to deuoure and swallowe vs vp So that certainely we are no more of one Church with them in their opinion then they are of one with vs in ours And now there will remaine noe more but a short Recapitulation of what hath been deliuered more at large for the finishing of this discourse to which I will now betake my selfe A recapitulatiō of the whole discourse wherin it followes vpon the confession of both parties that the Catholickes and the Protestants are not both of them saueable in their seuerall Religions without repentance thereof before they dy and that Catholickes must therefore be no longer held vncharitable for saying so but those Protestants are shewed to be Libertines who say the contrary CHAPTER X. SInce the Faith Religion Church hath beene prooued both by Scriptures and Fathers as also by vnanswearable reasons which haue beene drawne both from the very groundes of true Faith and from the nature and spirit of Heresy and Schisme and finally by the Confession of both parties to be but only one and that out of that one there is noe saluation to be obtayned Since the difference concerning the Doctrine of faith betweene Catholickes Protestants are so many so important and so resolutely maintained cōcerning both the Canon of Scriptures the number nature of Sacraments the authority of traditions the supreme Iudge of Cōtrouersies the visible heade of the Church the iustification of ouer soules the valewe of our good workes the liberty of our will the possibility of keeping the Commandements the relations which runne betweene the men of this life on the one side and both the soules in Purgatory and the Saints in Heauen on the other Since besides our differences in points of Doctrine we swarue also from one an other in points of discipline and haue separated our selues haue mutually excōmunicated one another Since we hold them to liue in heresie and schisme and they vs in affected ignorance grosse superstition and Idolatry and are dayly making Sermons and bookes and edicts and lawes against one another it is certaine that either both they and we must not be saued if we dy vnrepētant of our seuerall Religions or else that the whole world hath beene in a dreame of three thousand yeares old euer

Iesus Christ and we pray and hope that before they part out of this life the merits of the said death passion of our Blessed Lord may be applyed to theyr soules by fayth and charity and penance by those Sacramēts and other conduits meanes of conueying and applying his grace and spiritual life to their soules which are onely to be found in the bosome of the holy Catholicke Church Without which Sacraments and other meanes the merits and blood of Christ our Lord though most apt and able in themselues to saue a thousand millions of worlds will neuer saue any one soule For in fine the merits of our Lord and the sinfull soules of men be two extreames of great distance from one another can neuer be brought to meet but by such wayes and meanes as the vnspeakeable power and wisedome goodnes of Almighty God hath found out for that purpose and those meanes are they which I haue already touched For if the merit of our Blessed Sauiours death were of it selfe to saue any one soule without the application thereof by the aforesaid meanes no reason at all could be assigned why any one soule should be lost as yet the farre greatet part of soules is sure to be So that we speake not so much of Protestants in thy kind as of the profession of heresy which they follow and we iudge no more of them vpon this reason but that whilest they liue in that Religion they estrange themselues from the right meanes of applying the merits of Christ our Lord to theyr soules whereby they might be saued But yet we hope neuertheles that God will haue so much mercy on many of them before they dy as to incorporate them into his mysticall body which is his true Church whereby they may partake the influence of that mercy and grace which is deriued from the head thereof Iesus Christ our Lord. And therefore it is plaine that we make not Protestācy to be at a sinne against the Holy Ghost which cannot be forgiuen because it will not be repented whereas Protestancy both may and often is repented of and consequently forgiuen to the end that it may be so we declare the grieuousnes of the sinne and we procure by all the meanes we can to remoue the same Nay we are so farre from accounting it a sinne against the Holy Ghost as that by our saying that Protestancy vnrepented excludes saluatiō we imploy no more then meerly that it is a mortall sinne For whosoeuer dyes impenitent of any one mortall sinne can neuer be saued S. Paul ad Galat and whosoeuer shall with true penance be sory and depart from his Protestancy though it be but in the last minute of his life will be capable of saluation So that we iudge not men in particular concerning their saluation of damnation but yet on the other side we must not be afrayd to affirme though we are cordially sory for hauing cause to doe it that they who dye impenitent either of Protestancy or any other sinne which depriues the soule of the grace of God cannot be saued For such men as these are iudged already in generall by the mouth of God but which of them in his particular shall be taken before he dy out of that vnhappy hearde of goates and placed in that blessed flocke of sheepe by the hād of the good shepheard we leaue to his owne vnsearcheable determinatiō And therfore as we take not the office of Iudge out of his hand because we cannot come to know whether this or that particular sinner may not repent before he dye so yet we may safely say that a man who liues in Protestancy or any other mortall sinne and who is so farre from repenting it though he be sufficiētly informed thereof as that he will not so much as acknowledge it to be a sinne and who for ought we know or canne learne did no way retract or reuerse it so much as at the hower of his death departs this life in a state which is greatly to be lamented and withall that if he repented himselfe as little of it indeede in the sight of God as in our sight he seemed to doe there canne be no doubt with vs so longe as we beleeue our Religion to be true but that such a person dyed without saluation as departing in the obstinate profession of a different Religion which we esteeme to be false And the same must they also beleeue of vs mutatis mutandis if indeede they beleeue their owne Religion to be true Christian religion of which Christ himselfe pronounced Qui non crediderit condemnabitur That our saying that Protestancy vnrepented destroyes saluatiō proceedes from want of Charitie in vs is no lesse vntrue because there is but one true Church then already I haue shewed it to be improbable and first this is proued by holy scripture CHAPTER III. HItherto I haue been shewing how vtterly improbable it is euen prima facie that we should censure Protestancy or Protestants through want of Charitie and withall what that motiue is which induces vs to let them know the extreamity of danger wherein they are or that when we hold any such discourse it is so farre from being an effect of want of Charitie in vs towards them as that it only proceedes from our deepe compassion of their case which is the most sweete pretious fruite of that soueraigne vertue My endeauour now shal be to shew that this charge of vncharitablenes against vs is not only improbable but vniust also vntrue And that in carrying our selues herein as we doe we not only not swarue from our duty to them but if we should doe otherwise we should fayle of that obedience which we owne to Almighty God himselfe who exacts the performance of this office at the handes of his holy Catholicke Church And now for the clearing of this point in such sort as that it may satisfie doubtfull mindes it will first be fit to premise some few groundes vpon which I may the better build vp that truth which I am about to declare I will not offer here to prooue that there is a God because now I haue not to doe which professed Atheistes nor yet that Christ our Lord is the true sonne of God who suffered death for the redemptiō of the world because we liue not amongst Iewes But for as much as there are such differences of opinion concerning that Religion and Church which was founded and framed by Christ our Lord I will briefely shew in the first place that Almighty God did found one Church and but one and that he ordained one Religion wherein he would be serued and but one and that out of that Communion there is no saluation In the second place I will make it appeare that the vnity which is to be maintained amongst the members of this one true Church and the professors of this one Religion is directly broken betweene Catholickes and

seriously censure the Zuinglians and all the Sacramentaries for hereticks and as alienated from the Church of God And I protest before God and the world that I agree not with them nor euer will but will haue my hād cleare from the blood of those sheepe which these hereticks driue from Christ deceaue and kill And againe in the same place Cursed be the Charity and concord of Sacramentaries for euer and euer to all eternity And a litle before his death he protesteth saying I hauing now one of my feete in the graue will carry this testimony and glory to the tribunall of God That I will with all my heart condemne and eschew Carolostadius Zuinglius Oecolampadius their disciples nor will haue familiarity with any of them neither by letter writing words nor deedes accordingly as the Lord hath commaunded Thus he sayth with very much more to the same effect And to make this yet more euident by the like testimonyes of the Zuinglians Caluinists the Tigurine Diuines say thus Nos condemnatam execrabilem vocat sectam c. Luther calls vs a damnable and execrable sect but let him looke that he declare not himselfe an Archheretick since he will not nor cannot haue any society with those that confesse Christ. But how marueilously doth Luther here bewray himselfe with his diuells what filthy words doth he vses such as are replenished with all the diuells in helle For he sayth that the diuell dwelleth both now and euer in the Zuinglians and that they haue a blasphemous brest insathanized persathanized and supersathanized and that they haue besides a most vaine mouth ouer which Sathan beareth rule being infused perfused and transfused into the same Did euer man heare such speeches passe frō a furious diuell himselfe In so much as Zuinglius sayth of him Behould how Sathā doth endeauour wholly to possesse this man And Oecolampadius also forewarnes Luther least being puffed vp by arrogācy pride he be seduced by Sathā Wherunto might be added sūdry other like testimonies This contention betweene Luther and his followers on the one party and the Zuinglians or Caluinists on the other is yet further testified not only by the almost infinite writings of on against an other yet dayly encreasing but also by the knowne mutuall proscription or banishment of ech other from their seuerall territories or dominions So farre were they from reputing one another for members of one and the same Church Thus farre goe the words of the sayd Apoligie where you shall finde the places both of Luther and Zuinglius and Oecolampadius and the Tigurine diuines exactly cited Heare also further what Nicolaus Gallus saith who was an eminent Minister at Ratisbone of the difference amongst the Protestants themselues Non sunt leues c In The sib Hypothes The dissentions which are amongst vs be not light nor cōcerning light matters but about the greatest Articles of of Christian Doctrine of the law and the ghospell of iustification and good workes of the Sacraments and vse of ceremonies Heare also what Conradus Schlussenburgus another famous Lutheran Protestant sayth in the very Title of his booke against the Caluinists Theologiae Caluinisticae libri tres c. Three bookes concerning Caluiniā diuinity wherein it is shewed as in a Table to the eye out of two hundred thre and twenty publicke writers of the Sacramentaries with particular setting downe the pages the words the names of the authours that the said Sacramentaries haue no true belief of almost any Article of Christian Faith This booke was printed at Franckford in the yeare 1594. Reade also but the very Title of two of Grauerus his bookes who was a famous professour of Lutheranisme the one is this Absurda absurdorū absurdissima Caluinistica absurda The absourd most absourd doctrines Caluin c. and the other Bellum Ioannis Caluini Iesu Christi printed 1598. The warre of Iohn Caluin against Iesus Christ. And lastly doe but read this Title of book writtē by Aegidius Hunnius who was a most famous Lutheran and succeeded next to Luther himselfe in possessing his Chaire at Wittenberge The Title is this Aegidij Hunnij Caluinus Iudai ●ans id est c. Caluin playing the Iew that is to say A discouery made by Aegidius Hunnius of the Iewish Interpretations and corruptions whereby Iohn Caluin ●ath not bene afrayde to corrupt after a detestable māner most illustrious places and testimonies of holy Scripture concerning the glorious Trinity the Deity of Christ of the holy Ghost and especially of predictiōs of the Prophets touching the coming of the Messias his Natiuity Passion Resurrection Ascension sitting at the right hād of God Printed at Wittenberge in the yeare 1592. I forbeare both to presse this euidēce I will no further seeke to prooue by way of Authority that both Catholicks and Protestants are not sauable as not being to be accounted to be of one and the same Church and Religion no not yet euen the Lutherans and Caluinists For in a word that reason strikes euen at the roote which is drawen from the nature propriety of faith it selfe And euen that alone if it be well considered will vnanswerably conuince not only that they are of differēt faith Church who differ in so many Articles of so great moment as these wherein we professe one selues to disagree but that they also who differ in any one single point which is propounded and commanded by the Catholicke Church yea and more ouer that they who differ not in any points at all if yet they assent not vpon the only true infallible ground which is as hath bene said the reuelation of Almighty God and the Proposition and Direction of the said Catholicke Churh not only haue the selfe same faith with that Church but that they haue no supernaturall and true faith at all euen of those other doctrines which they most earnestly thinke themselues to imbrace and cōsequently that it is wholly impossible for them to be saued if they dye impenitent The reason whereof is excellently deliuered by S. Thomas and many other diuines who vnaunswerably prooue that whosoeuer belieues not the whole corps of Christian Doctrine hath no true supernaturall faith at all and doth not righly belieue any one Article thereof He may haue a kinde of materiall fayth concerning those articles to which he giues assent but not a certaine and true and supernaturall faith vnles he belieue them vpon the right grounde thereof which is The speech or reuelation of Almighty God propounded and commaunded to belieued by the Catholicke Church For example if I should belieue that Christ our Lord dyed for the sins of the world either because I had only read it in some learned booke or in regard that I had ben told so by some friend whom I much esteemed and loued or else because I thought it likely in respect of some cōgruity thereof to other things or finally vpō any other