vse vnlawfull And especially in the tenth chapter he confuteth the verie selfe same reason which the A. towieth so roundlie with in this place which was that for so muche as the eatinge at the Idolles feast was but an owtward thing and went no farther then to the bellie therfore it was indifferent to be vsed or left at a mans discretion So the place then the which their is none stronger in the whole bodie off the Scripture to bind and kepe in the lauishe vse off Christian libertie that the A callendgeth for the enlarging of it betonde the boundes that God hathe set in his word And wheras he saith that S. Paule declareth their contentions which seperate them selues from the church for externall thinges S. Paule maketh no mention there either off contention or diuision from the church neither in deed they which abused then their libertie contended withe the weaker but contemned them Also off deuiding them selues from the church in that place is not a worde who soeuer will reade those places with a litle diligence shall easely perceiue that this is the matter which the Apostle giueth owt in that place As touching externall thinges for which the church of Christ may not contend they are suche as there being no commaundement of God directlie to vse them or not to vse them are left in the discretion of the faithful to be ordered the most to Godes glorie and edifiyng one off an other therfore as I thinke termed off learned writers externall for that they come not vnto the conscience nor bind not yt For otherwise that difference off externall and internall thinges is not sufficient to giue to vnderstand which are thinges indifferent or vnindifferent For neither are all externall thinges left to our discretion as I haue shewed and there are some internall thinges as off certeine inward thowghtes and opinions which are not imputed vnto vs for synne whether side soeuer we thinke or iudge of them As if I thinke in my selfe that there was neuer suche a Hector or Achilles or troye as is described off Homere and virgill I sinne not and if I thincke there was neither is that imputed vnto me for synne But these thinges which be in controuersie seing we offer to proue them commaunded and necessarie by the word off God how commeth it to passe that yow lashe owt so manie places owt off Bullinger and Zuinglius against those which trouble the church for indifferent thinges as thowghe yow had alreadie gotteÌ„ that which yow confesse by and by to be in triall that these things which we demaund are not necessarie What order of iudgement is this first to giue iudgement or euer the cause be heard iff yow will needes be bothe partie and Iudge at least yow should haue saued these vntill yow haue as yow promised shewed the vntreweth off our cause And therfore hereafter as often as yow doo importunatelie and vnstill fully heape so many places togither yow shall haue for answere â— plaine blancke To the 16. sect pa. 14. WHether yow haue either scripture or godlie learned author for your warrant in your assertions partely hath bene alreadie shewed and more shall appeare But yow must learne that the part of a faithfull teacher in the church of god is neither to propound any thing to the church neither to reiecte that which is propounded by other off credit off any godlie learned zelous man And althowghe this be to much yet that which he writethe in the 200. pag. is to farr owt of al square Wher he affirmeth that the argument off authoritie whether owt off the Scriptures or owt off the interpretors off the Scripturrs is the best reason that can be browght in diuinitie To bothe I will answere here in the beginninge that the reader may haue wherewithe he maye beware and know how to estenie bothe his and our proufes And first of all seing the Apostle teacheth Timothie that the Scripture inspired by the holie goste is the onelie rule for the minister which he calleth the man off god either to establishe or ouerthrowe what soeuer maye fall in question in the churche And S. Peter saith that who soeuer speaketh in the churche must speake as the wordes of god And seing all the godlie zelous learned men in the world are not able to authorise or displace any doctrine in the churche withowt the word of god I leaue it to be considered how dauÌ„gerouslye he mainteineth his answere to be good for that it hathe ground either of the word of god or the iudgement of some godlie iearned man and let it be waied whether this be to set vp an other Doctor in the church then Moses or our sauiour Christ Touchinge that the authoritie off the Scripture in diuine matters owght to preuaile I willinglie graunte but that the argument off the authoritie of men whiche haue interpreted the Scriptures is the beste reason in controuersies off diuinitie but off the Papistes whose strongest towers are in the testimonies off the Doctors was neuer hard off And thowghe there be nothing more Papistical then this assertion yet the doctor holding the name and profession of the gospell maye to the vtter subuersion off it cause this to be printed and flie abroade And that the authoritie off learned men should be the best proufe in diuine matters hathe more absurdities in yt then yt hathe wordes For first their authoritie is here set in the same ranke withe the authoritie off the Scripture in that as the authoritie off the Scripturr so it also is set in the superlatiue degree off the best proufe Then their authoritie being preferred vnto all reasons is preferred vnto the reasons drawen owt off the Scripture which in euerie diuinitie cause almoste besides the authoritie are diuerse drawen off the causes and off the effectes c. Thirdlie yt ys absurd to perferr the authoritie of any man which ys onelie his bare affirmation vnto his one reason and discours And seing the ende off proufes in controuersies off diuinitye is that faythe maye be engendred in mindes whiche onelye can be grounded on the worde off God what a miserable yea what â— cursed faith shall that be that is hanged off the authoritâ—â— off men which be they neuer so learned yet are they because they be men Lyers suche as deceyue and be deceyued And wheras he saithe that an Argument off authoritie hathe an other weight in our profession then yt hathe in humane sciences I confesse it hathe so iff the authoritie off the Scripture bee consydered But as for the authoritie off men for the which cause he alledgeth this yâ— is farr otherwise For yff the authoritie off man in humane sciences and in mens matters be off small force off how how muche lesse force owght yt to be in Godes matters yt is clene contrarie therfore to that the D. sayth For althoughe that Kinde off argument off the authoritie off men is Good neither in humane nor diuine science yet
at large Vnto the fowre nexte sections I answer nothing sauing that where in the seconde secâ— pa. 5â— he saith that master Caluin in his booke against the Anabaptistes affirmethe that the churche as towching the external pollicie can not be perfecte I doo assure my selffe that as in other places so heere he hathe vntrewly saide off Maister Caluin And yt cannot bâ— vnknowne but in Moses and the Apostlâ—â— times ther was a perfecte patruÌ„ of the owtwarde gouernernment off the churches bothe giuen off the lorde and receiued off the churches neither can there be any parte of the owtwarde gouernement off the churche assigned by the answerer which draweth any suche impossibilitie withe yt as he imagineth And iff he saye that ther were faultes committed againste those perfecte patrones that is not to the purpose For the faultes off particular persons doo no more ouerthrowe the perfection off the gouernment whiche was receiued then the faultes off the officers in our churche againste the lawes theroff are to be imputed vnto the lawes them selues wherby that gouernment standeth And as for the examples off the churches off Corinthe and Galatia whiche he alledgeth they rather make against him For that disorder whiche the Apostle chargeth them withe being a slyding backe and falling awaye from that estate wherin they were firste off all set by the Apostell argueth that there was a time when the contrarie off those disorders had place in their churches In the nexte section he alledgeth diuers examples to proue that enemies one withe another conspire against the trewthe whiche no man do which and where I shewed that the churches friÌ„des may doo some thiÌ„ges which some of the churches enemies doo against him whiche in that the admonitors doo certaine thinges with the Papiste and Anabaptistes woulde giue to vnderstande that they are conspired with theÌ„ he answerethe that the admonitors conspire withe the enemies off the churche in thinges whiche are againste the churche which is a manifest begging off that whiche is in controuersie Towching that which I sayde he hathe tawght that there is no commaundement in the scripture to put heretikes to deathe althowghe he denie that euer he did so yet beside that he mainteineth the same in the seconde treatise where he leaueth yt in the libertie off the magistrate whether he will doo yt or no and reiecteth all the lawes off God prouided in that behalfe as Iewis he there be moo witnesses off this then his bare deniall is hable to beare downe to whose knowledge I wil so reporte me in this behalfe that if they confirme not the same I refuse not to beare the blame off that reporte where he saieth there is no cause that he shoulde be better thought of emonge the papistes which teache and practise the contrarie althoughe the Papistes abuse this doctrine to the horrible murther off the church yet the doctrine is the doctrine off god and not the Papistes and yow by staying the course off yt nourishe them to the daye off slawghter and shedding off the bloude off the sainctes off god vvhich is their feaste and vvhiche they so greatly delight in and longe after In althat which foloweth vnto the first tractate vvhich beginneeth page 62. there is nothing worthe the answere And as for that whole tractate because yt perteineth to the question off lordeshipp and dominion off the Archebishopps ouer the bishops and off the Bishopps ouer the reste off the Ministers yt shall be referred to the beginning off the 8. Tractate where the answerer shall receiue his replie What authoritie the churche hathe in making off orders Chapter 1. pag. 77. THe playster vvherwithe the answerer woulde heale his vnskilfulnes in the expounding off tollerating in the churche by these wordes placing in the churche will not cleane For to let pas the meanig off the admonition whiche he shoulde haue shewed iff he mainteine his answer by yt and not as he doothe contrary to all lawe of disputation bid me proue that their meaning was not so as he supposeth I saie to let that pas yt appeareth by bis plaine vvordes that this exposition was not framed in regarde off the meaning off the admonition but for that he knew not what difference there was betwene placinge in the churche and tollerating in the churche For himselffe coÌ„fesseth that this is the principall grounde of their booke that those thinges onely shoulde be placed in the churche whiche the lorde himself in his worde comÌ„aundethe and ascribing this iudgemeÌ„t vnto them he afterwarde expoundeth that to be asmuche as if they shoulde haue saide that nothing shulde be tolerated c. yff this be their principall grounde that nothing be placed c as the A. confessethe and placing in the churche is not the same that tollerating in the churche as he doothe also confesse yt must folowe that the principall grounde off the admonition was not as he saithe that nothing shoulde be tollerated in the churche not commaunded by the worde And his wordes doo discharge the admonition off any suche assertion For in that he saithe that their meaning was so farr as he coulde gather that nothing shoulde be placed c. yt is manifeste that in saying nowe that they mente that nothinge shoulde be tolerated c. he chargeth them farther then he was then hable to gather off their booke Afterwarde he chargethe me withe an vnaduised and a popishe assertion for that I say that many thinges are commaunded in the scripture vvhich are not expressed in yt He neded not to haue trauailed far to haue seene how far I am from poperie in in this pointe iff he woulde haue but considered the wordes which folowe in the same diuision that god hathe set before vs in his vvorde a perfect patrone off his churche But I was at leaste ouerseene in this kind off speache Alas iff he woulde vnderstande his grammer and acknowledge that which simple scholers off the gramÌ„er schoole doo well knowe that their is difference betweene expressed and conteined betweene expressed and included betweene expressed and implied betweene expressed and gathered He woulde neuer haue troubled the reader with suche folies And as for that which I set downe I did yt vppon Good groundes For who is there which knoweth not that thes thinges that there is one essence and three persons in the godheade that there is in our Sauiour Christe one parson and two natures are not expressed but onely conteined in the worde off God And iff proofe must be had off thinges which is to greate shame for one that cariethe the title off a diuine to be ignorant off let the answerer know that lerned diuines speake afte this sorte Their wordes be thes Off the father of the Sonne and holy ghoste there is one nature one essence and thre persons In Christ our lorde there be tvvo natures and one person and many other thinges vvhich the catholike churche doothe receiue rather layde oute by the interpretation
othe made with theÌ„ put to deathe And vnles this be admitted we shall be compelled to condemne the spies which entred into league with Rachab the Harlot and SalomoÌ„ which receiued the Amorytes that voluntaryly yelded theÌ„ selues vnto his obedience and withall vnto the obedience off the lorde as it maie appeare in the bookes off Esra and Nehemias where their posteritie which are there called the sonnes off the seruantes of Salomon hauing of olde time grow ne into one bodie off the churche off god withe the children of Israel ioyne themâ—elues with theÌ„ in the restoring of the temple Wheruppon the A. may vnderstande that the Scripture reasonethe negatiuely againste the Israelites in a thinge wheroff there was no commaundement to the contrarie Moreouer we reade that when Dauid had taken this counsell to builde a temple vnto the lorde albeit the lorde had reuealed before in his worde that there shoulde be suche a standing place where the arke off the couenante and the seruice off god shoulde haue a certeine abydinge and albeit there was no worde off god which forbad Dauid to builde the temple yet the lorde with commendation off his good affection and zeale he had to the aduancement off his glorie concludeth againste Dauid his resolution to builde the temple with this reason namelie that he had giuen no commaundement off this who shoulde builde yt Where he woulde grounde this answer vpon the wordes off Zuinglius yt is manifest that Zuinglius reproueth the Anabaptistes not for reasoning negatiuely off the authoritie off the scripture but that they reasoned negatiuely off an acte or an example And there is great difference betwene them that saye it is no conteined or it can not be concluded off any place in the scripture therefore yt is vnlawfull and betweene the Anabaptistes which reason that therefore the baptisme off children is vnlawfull because it is not founde in the Scriptures that the Apostles did babtize any children Wheras iff they had reasoned thus that the baptisme off yonge children was vnlawfull forasmuche as yt was not commaunded in the scriptures althowghe the grounde off their reason had bene false yet their conclusion had bene faste and sure And therfore iff the answerer wolde haue delte trewly he shoulde not haue fathered this answer of Zuinglius whiche hathe no suche thinge but off the Papistes whose proper defense this is againste those whiche manifie the sufficiencie of the worde off God as that whiche giueth men addresse vnto all thinges whiche are to be doone Maister Harding reprochethe the Bishopp off Salusbery with this kinde off reasoning whiche the answerer obiectethe againste vs so often vnto whom the Bishopp answereth The Atgument Maister Hearding meanethe and not very plainely vttereth is the argumente off authoritie negatiuely vvhich is taken to be goode vvhen soeuer proufe is taken off godds vvorde and is vsed not onely by vs but also by many of the catholike fathers And there alledgeth how Saint Paul in the 3. Gal. dispureth negatiuely off the authoritie off the scripture for that the Apostel vppon the wordes off Moses in thy seede and not seades concludeth that our sauiour Christe was vnderstanded likewise he shewe the how Origine reasoneth after the same sorte And a litle after sheweth the reason why the argumente off authoritie off of the scripture negatiuelie is good namely for that the worde off God is perfecte In another place vnto Maister Harding casting him in the teethe with the negatiue Argumentes he alledgeth places owte of Ireneus Chrisostome Loo which reasoned negatiuely of the authoritie of the scripture The places which he alledgeth be very full and plaine in generalitie withowt any suche restraincte as the A. imagineth as they are there to be seene Wheras he saithe that the reason that God coulde giue a perfecte patrone off the churche therfore he hathe so doone doothe no more folow then in there all presence off the Sacrament he doothe but trifle withe his reader For I reason not off the bare power off God but haue ioyned his will with his power For my wordes be that the Lorde determining to set before our eyes a perfecte forme off his churche is bothe hable to doo yt and hathe doone yt Where yt is euidente vnto all men that I grounde my reason not onely off the habilitie off the lorde but vpon his determination not onely off that which he coulde doo but off that he hathe doone Diuision 2. pag. 79. VNto that wherin he was towched for his vnskilfulnes in diuiding in that bothe matters off gouernement and matters of faithe which he deuideth and by diuiding opposethe meete so frendlie together in the gouernement of the Pope he answerthe not And yet hauing nothing to answer he findeth him selfe the talke of a whole sheete of paper For first off all how ridiculous ys it that he saithe he did not put a case but an example Then whether perteines it that he settethe doune what the Papistes saye off the pope what the pope doothe himselffe That also whiche he affirmethe in so good earnest that no gouernement owght to be receiued direcly againste the worde off God that he repeatethe and repeateth againe his negatiue argument of the popes supremacie are they not all strey spreaches fraied owt of ther wittes carying not the weight of a fether to the profe off any thinge in controuersie hauing no knot either with the cause or one of them with another Likewise the distinctions off Ceremonies and gouernement off substantiall and accidentall of externall and spirituall are altogether vnprofitable brought to auoide his apparant ignorance in diuiding Likewise his dalying in his questions what gouernement I meane which is apparant in the discours off all our bookes off boothe sydes also his groping at none dayes by questions what it mente by matters necessarie to saluation which is expressed off me in the very nexte diusioÌ„ and againe in the thirde chap. 2 diuision Afterwarde when he setteth him selffe to proue that there is no one finde off gouernement certaine and vnuariable in the churche let yt be obserued how loosely aÌ„d childishelie he doothe yt For beside the firste reason which is a begging of that whiche is in questioÌ„ and the later reason drawne of the authoritie of maister Gwalier wherof he can haue no aduantage vnles with master Gwalter he will affirme that excommunication is not necessary nor yet conuenient vnder a Christien magistrate all the reste of his authorities drawne owte of M. Caluine the heluetian confession Bullinger are quite beside the cause For they are to proue that there may be a churche withowte excommunication As thowghe the question were what thinges the churche of those whiche be prescribed by the worde off God may wante aÌ„d yet be the churche of god and not what thinges yt owght to haue by the prescripte of the worde off god Or as thowghe the question were how sicke the churche might be and yet liue how meimed
diocese will not holde owt the whether For although it might be therby gathered that there vvere seuerall Ceremonies in the elections off the dioceses yet it is plaine by his wordes that the elections vvere throvvgh ovvt made by the church vvhich is that vve desire Because yow busie yowr selfe so much to proue that this was not decreed by autoritie of the vvord of God althowgh yt be not that vvhich I tooke in hand to proue yet the wordes off that decree proue yt fully And albeyt he saied not according to the rules of the Apostles yet he saith that in effect For in saing that the church should vse that election in the name and authoritie off god what is yt els but that god hath so ordeined And in that he calleth yt the honor of the church which he giueth not him selfe but assenteth vnto he declareth yt incident to the church And what a reason is this Thēperour for bad that any man shoulde spoile the churches of their elections therfore it was in the Emperours powre to take awaie the election from the churches Which is in this diuision for feare of forgetting fowre times repeted ād vnworthy once to be cōfuted as I haue before declared And as that which the A. alledgeth off the rest of the decree maketh nothing to proue that the electiō off the church is in the Emperours powre so that which im̄ediatly foloweth vvhich he hydeth in c. doth manifestly proue that he helde yt for grounded of the vvord off God that the churches should haue the election off their mynisters For he addeth Because vve haue bene tavvght by the holie fathers that this thing that is to saie the taking awaie off the election from the church as the D. himselfe expoundeth yt is most greuous synne If therfore it be greuous synne to spoile the church of this honor and synne is defined the breach of the law off god yt followeth that the Emperour toke yt for a lawe of God that the church should chuse her minister And if I had bene bente vppon that poincte I could haue cited diuers testimonies which Illyricus vseth wherby this off the vnchangeable necessitie off the election by the church is confirmed As that Leo the firste affirmeth that no reason suffereth that he should be bishop vvhich is not chosen by the people alledged and pressed against the Papistes off Maister Caluin to the same pourpose Which place how violently and vnfaithfully yt is wrested off the D. in the end of this treatise shall be considered Also that he alledgeth off Leo the fourth and Celestine which confirmed the same ordinance vvith this testimonie it is not conuenient and yt is againste reason yt should be othervvise Likewise owt off the epistles off the Archbishop off Reines in Fraunce vvho diuers times vseth this saying he ovvght to be chosen of all vvhom all must gyue obedience vnto Last off all a whole treatise owt of the second booke of Cusanus vvhich proueth of diuers places out off the scripture Cyprian and canon Lawe that yt is no constitution off men but the lawe off God that the minister should be chosen off the church and that vvhosoeuer doth not enter into the church by that means entreth not in by the doore but is a these and a murtherer Thes I would haue browght at large if I had not contented my selfe with proofes owt of the scripture for the necessitie off yt which I here haue shortly set downe because I see the D. more afraied off the iudgemēt off the auncient church then of the scripture so that althowgh yt be a slender buckler to shild him selfe that the constitutions in that behalfe make no mention off any grownd owt off the word of god wheras he should rather haue shewed that they protested in their lawes off the indifferencie againste the necessitie off it yet euen that buckler also is by diuers Testymonies taken from him Yt is a poore falsifying off Platina vvhich is nothing but change of one worde for another without any gaine at al. For the Emperours cōmendacion serueth me as well to proue that the election of the church was alowed of and confirmed of the ciuill magistrate as if he had commaunded yt The second place off Platina proueth nothing les then that it was in the Emperours powre to change the election seinge that he nether made nor altered any forme off Election but onely off two Elections by the people mainteined that vvhich vvas lawfull Seinge also Platina supposeth no right off makinge the election in the Emperour but by the resignation off the Bishopp if that place proue any thing or thother after alledged owte off Bale and Barnes they proue that yt was in the Bishoppes hande to order yt at his pleasure Which howe vntrwe yt ys maie be considered off that vvhich hath bene before spoken againste the sole election off the Bishopp and off that vvhich is here confessed that the Bishopp of Rome began to vsurpe that which belonged not vnto hym For iff he encroched vppon the Emperours right no meruaile althowgh he brake in vppon the possession off the church Where he saith yt is to be noted that the libertie for the people to chuse was graunted by Charles the greate note also tha◠that note is worth nothing For where he would haue yt seeme that he was the firste that gaue that libertie he is confuted manifestly by the wordes off Charles a litle before alledged vvho speaketh of that election as of a thing accustomed of ould and doth not make any newe lawe therof but gyueth his assent vnto those which vvere made The vvordes yow ascribe to me that the electiō perteineth not to the Emperour I haue not I kepte the very wordes of Platina and nether added nor tooke awaie from them Where yow vvould seme to confirme owt of Platina in the life of Iohn the 13. by the worde creating that the Emperour chose Leo yt is but an abusing of the reader For Platina in the next chapter sauing one vvhere he speaketh of Leos election declareth that that creation vvas nothing els but a confirmacion of the election made by the people and clergie Therfore I saide the Emperours permitted the elections vnto the churches because by powre and violence they might haue taken them from them vvherfore yt followethe not that he mighte withowt breache off Gods lawe take them from the churche When yt is saide in the stories that the Emperous permitted vnto the churches the exercise off their religion maie yt therby be concluded that it was at their pleasure to haue without offence of God restrained them of that libertie verely I am ashamed to confute vvhich the D. is not ashamed to obiecte Yet the testimonies alledged make no mention of this word permission wherby this aduantage yf yt vvere anie should betaken Yow might easelie haue forgiuen me this fault where the iniurie which I doo is a gainst my selfe For where I might
chusing such a one as was an Arian a runnigate from his former bishoppricke a railer of the Emperour yet he confesseth still that yt belonged vnto them to make a hewe election Fourthly what will he say to that that the people bridled the rage of the scribes and pharises againste the truth and ministers theroff in that they were a fraide off them that the Bishop off the church being an Arrian the people haue bene for the most parte Catholike That also the Emperour hath displaced the catholike bishop chosen by the church ād placed an Arian Which disorders beinge often cōmitted by the Bishops maie by the D. rule as well depriue them of their intereste in ordering and confirming as the people in chosing What also that the euill disposition off the people hath for the moste parte proceded off the mouing off their euill gouernours So that people diuers times good when the rulers were naughte hath bene seldome naughte whē their gouernours were good besides all this there are other faultes off Symonie off choise off moste dissolute and most vnlearned ministers wherwith the sole election off the bishops is so infamous and the churches election scarsly to be touched with that many contentions off the people woulde drawe les blould off the churche then the choise onely off one suche blinde and lame minister as many off the assemblies off the bishoppes for that purpose sende forthe by whole armies Laste all as in other reasons before I haue shewed that the D. defendinge the same cause which the Papistes vseth the very selfe same armour bournished by the names off Zuinglius Caluin Beza c. so here he hath the very selfe same reason which the Papistes vsed for the bishoppes sole election wherunto Caluin maketh answer For vnto the Papistes sayinge that the people were shut forthe because off the contentions and tumultes which happened often times he answereth confessing there were such motions and sturres but that the taking awaie off the churches electiō was browght in for a remedy against those sturres he affirmeth to be a plaine lie and sheweth that there were other waies to meete with those disorders as to punishe them which should moue any tumult And so goeth forward in shewinge the trewe cawse off the falling awaie off this libertie from the churche To all the reste off his reasons I haue answered before at large sauinge that he hath embossed owte this laste with a sentence off Chrysostome vpon Iohn drawen from Hosius who vseth this testimonie againste the election of the churche Where both Hosius and the Ans shoulde haue learned to haue put a difference betwene a confused multitude and the church off god For I woulde aske off Hosius howe shamles so euer he be whether he dare define the church off God which is the spouse and body off Christe to be a certeine thinge full off tumulte and sturres consistinge ad rashly compacted for the moste parte of folie c. and yet ether the answer is not afraied to saie that this is the difinition that is to saie the very nature and vnchangeable propertie of the church off God or els if he vnderstand yt of some other companie he hath saide nothinge againste the election off the church And verely I can not see howe he coulde speake more vilely of the moste disordred rowte off moste godles people then he semeth to doo off that assemblie vvhich beinge indewed with the wisdome of the moste higheste he calleth a thing consistinge off folies and which beinge the piller off trewth he lykeneth vnto waues off the sea By which symilitude the scripture setteth forthe the estate of the reprobate or at leaste off the wicked vvhich haue as yet no societie with our Sauiour Therfore to conclude seinge that the election off the churche in her ministers hath grounde owt off the worde off God both in commaundement and continuall practise both in the olde Testamente and in the newe consydering also it hath allowance off commen reason the approbacion off all times after the Apostles as longe as ther was any sinceritie in peace and perquution both by councells and Emperours decrees both by godly writers ancient and off our time and considering he hath not so much as browghte an example to the contrarie owte off any auror and if he coulde yet the same is condemned not onely by the worde off god but by continuall good harmonie off councells one in the necke of another diuers 100 yeares and forasmuch as the Ans hathe this question of election by the bishope onely commen with the Papistes and hathe had both sworde and buckler ministred him owte off the moste grosseste Papistes I conclude that both the church owghte to haue her consente in the election off her ministers and that the sole autoritie off bishops creating ministers is vnlawfull Vnto this question off election and ordination belongeth the 2. chapter of the 4. tract of ceremonies in ordeining off which the 2. Diuision beinge answered and the first and third vnworthy of answer there remaineth onely the fowrth Againste that he alledgeth that the bishop mighte as well say receiue the holy goste to the ministers made by him as to vse the wordes off the Lordes supper I replied that there was a commaundement for the one and not for the other wherunto he saith that there is no speciall commaundement Which is no answer For if the generall commaundement off kepinge that whole institution doo comprehende this beinge aparte theroff then the argument standeth That he bringeth off the minister sayinge withowt inconuenience This is my bodie and in recitall off the commaundementes thow shalte haue no other god but me is nothing worthe seinge the inconuenience is taken away by preface off God spake thes vvordes Christe tooke bread c. The place of Timothe vvith Maister Caluins expositiō is vtterly impertinent For it is not question whether God doth gyue his giftes to them which he calleth or no but vvhether he giueth them by this means of sayinge receiue c. where he saith that the Apostels when they laide on their hands likely vsed thes wordes it is vntrwe considering that Saincte Luke pursuing the leste of those ceremonies which were vsed made no mencion off it being in the D. iudgement worthiest off all other to be followed And if they had vsed yt yet yt folowed not that the bishops maie doo it considering that it was proper onely to the Apostles to giue the giftes off the holy goste by layinge on off handes Where he saith that Christe commaundinge the sea to be quiet and breathing vppon his disciples confirmed his diuinitie I answer that he did the same in commaunding to receiue the holy goste which otherwise he woulde haue praied for as at other times when he gaue testimonie off his humanitie Caluin althowgh he vse not the same example yet vseth the like when he compareth the imitation off thes wordes receiue the holy goste with those being saide
not onely in that S Paul preached somewhere yeares other where moneths in some places weeks in other not all but in that by certein vocation S. Peter c. were more bound to the places where the Iewes then where the Gentils were and Saint Paul and Barnabas had in their generall charge a more streight bond to preach vnto the Gentils then to the Iewes And albeit the Euangelistes he imagineth are let so lose that they may preach through the realm yet euen in that scope he leueth them they haue a neerer knot and further dutie off preaching in places of their natiuitie abode of freinds aÌ„d kinsfolk Therfore if the residence off a Pastor be no more then the D. plainly setteth downe that he ought to doo it especially in that place and more in that then in others the difference betwene a Pastor and them towching the bond to a place graunted also off the Answ is cleane taken away Burhe will not answer the former reason because it cometh owt off place Where forsomuch as preaching in other places is alledged to be one off the cheif cawses off non residence all men see that this arrow was shot at the heart off his cause And yf yt had no place here why did not he cary yt to the proper place how cometh it to passe that he answereth yt not els where But how vaine this excuse is it appeareth seing eueÌ„ in this diuision to proue that the Pastors may preach in other places then in their charges which is that he refuseth to speake off as impertinent he alledgeth the example of the Apostels and Euangelists and so continueth almost a whole side off repetitions Likewise to that alledged that Timothe and Tite cam not from Ephesus and Crete off their ovvne heades but called off the Apostle a cheiff gouernour off the church vvhich can be no vvarrant to those vvhich leue their charges vvithout any such calling he answereth not That which is saide off the D. that S Paul sent for Timothe for his owne priuate busines is vntrue nether hath any grownd off the word And if he thinck that those wordes help him that Timothe should bring Marck as one profitable to serue him they rather confute him for yt is absurd to imagin that S. Paul would take twoo such notable lightes from the seruice off the church to serue his priuate busines and to doo that which mâ—ght be doon by others which had no publike charge in the church especially considering that he had Luke with him before Therfore that seruice must be expounded of the seruice off the gospell whereunto he would employ them Whereas I alledged for residence against those which leauing their proper charges wander in other places that they should not attempt any thing in the ministerie vvithout calling the Ans saith a man is not so called to one place that he is restrained from doing good in other which is not the question For it is not denied but he may doo good by praier counseill and writing After be saith that he constantly belieueth that in the moe places he laboureth the more his seruice is accepted vnto God and p. 241. that he is a meÌ„ber and minister off the whole church generally and pag. 224. wheresoeuer the preacher may doo most good thyther he is called of God. Wherein beside the miracle off making Apostles he bringeth in other wonders which the Lord him selff neuer wrought which is to chaunge a Pastor into an Apostle And beside that it is directly against the order off the scripture which calleth them bishops off such and such a particular church and not off the whole church against the Canons off the ould Councels which forbad the bishops to goe beyond their owne boundes and assigneth that cause off appointing Patriarchs yt is against that him self hath set downe where putting differeÌ„ce betwene pastors bishops aÌ„d other preachers he saith that Pastors and bishops haue their cures limited Whereuppon foloweth that if they goe to other places they both passe their limits and destroy the difference assigned off the Answ between them and other licenced preachers Yea if he be minister off the whole church he hath a necessary calling to preach in as many places as he can possibly as he which otherwise shal be gilty off their bloud ouer whom hauing a mynistry he hath doone no duty But forasmuch as the Pastor hath his calling vnto one certein place onely yt must needes be that he goyng to other churches off his owne head goeth withowt calling Onles he will here flie vnto secret persuasions off the spirit off God without the voice off the church which is mere Anabaptisticall And where he saith that God calleth him to that place where he may doo moste good first he doth presumpteously that taketh vpon him to determin where he may doo moste good and that which controlment off the churches iudgement which placing hym in a certein church thereby gyueth her sentence that he might doo moste good there Then I answer that although he could know where he might doo most good yet that is no sufficient calling off god For the lord calleth sometime his ministers vnto places where they gaine least and sendeth none to those where after preaching would folow repentance as appeareth by that our Sauiour Christ speaketh off Corazim and Bethsaida compared with Tyre and Sydon off Capernaum compared with Sodom and by that the Lord saith to Ezechiel off the Iewes compared with the Gentils And our Sau. Christ which knew where he might do moste good and best fill his hand off the Lordes corne folowing the calling off God his father euen in the land off Iury where his charge was preached more in certein stoncharted townes then in those which were better affectioned to his doctrine Which may appeare both by Ierusalem and the exaÌ„ples before recited and especially in Capernaum In which for that he preached so often and wrought so many miracles yt is in an other place called his owne cyty Now if our Sau. Christ preached no where but by the calling off God his father and yet few in places more aboundantly where he knew he should haue a thinner haruest yt foloweth that yt ys both vntrue which the Answ saith that God calleth a man to preach where he may doo most good and true that the lawfull voyce of the church being the same to the Mynisters now which the holy spirit off God was in those extraordinary callinges owght to goe before euery one in his mynistry not onely for direction off hym to preach but also for the place where Whereuppon foloweth that he which being placed in one church leapeth into an other without an other calling off the church runneth or euer he be sent So that althowgh the Pastor had neuer so harty a desyre to profyt in his wandring from place to place yet hauing no calling there is no obedience and therefore if in casting his net
conceiued off an opinion they had that those tvvo vvere not vvorthy to rule ouer them The vvordes off our Sauiour Christ in the 20. of S. Math. c. are spoken vnto the 12. onely vvhom he had set apart for the ministerie off the gospell but his vvordes S. Math. 23. are spoken not onely vnto them but vnto the commen people Wheruppon it followeth that our Sauiour ioining the people vvith his disciples in the dehortations vvhich he maketh here could not as in the other place vvhere he speaketh vnto them alone speake off the proper listes and boundes of the ministerie and therfore there is no cause vvhy M. shoulde be glad that I agree with hym in the exposition off Math. 23. Further Math. 20. making comparison betwene the 12. disciples and Princes here so far as towcheth the disciples he maketh comparison betwene them and other ecclesiasticall ministers There being therfore thinges in the state off a commendable Prince vvhich agree not vnto the ministery of the gospell it followeth that he may be well thowght there not onely to haue forbidden the disciples ambition damnable in bothe estates but also those thinges which being commendable in Princes agree not vnto them Off the other side all thinges coÌ„mendable in the Pharises ministrie Ecclesiasticall agreing likewise to theirs it followeth of necessitie that there he must needes speake against ambition onely Vnto the next diuis being reproches I answer not onely vvhere he chargeth me vvith falsehood becawse I affirme he saith the booke off commen praier is a perfect rule to gouerne the churche off England by where nothing is wanting or to much I answer that there be not the same wordes but when there is nothing he will acknowledge to be off the order of the booke which he mainteineth not and refuseth to haue added thinges vvhich haue their ground off the word I leaue to the reader to iudge whether although my wordes are vvith the fullest yet I am far from his meaning Now I returne againe to his 8 Tract The Ans skoffing vppon my vnskilfulnes in logicke saith he can finde nether head nor foot in my reason Thus I will finde both They which deny the lawfulnes of Iohns ministrie because there was no suche ministerie conteined in the scriptures thowght no ministerie lawfull not conteined in them but the Scribes and Leuites did so therfore they esteemed no ministerie lawfull not conteined in scripture Against this he taketh exception first to the translation which is altogether friuolus for beside that both the wordes may beare that signikication and it is not vnlike but by the article the Euangelist ment not some one singular Prophet spoken of in the law beside the Messias but rather any Prophet extraordinary to vvhom the Lord shewed him self ether by vision or dreame the interpretation vvhich he citeth owt of Beza altereth not the argument but rather strenghtheneth it noting therby that it vvas necessary not onely to haue the function off a Prophet but off one which vvas especially noted and marked owt by the scripture SecoÌ„dly where he saith that if they had asked Iohn whether he had bene a Prophet he would not haue denied it and addeth for proofe theroff our Sauiour Christ saied he was one he is abused for our Sauiour saying that he vvas greater then a prophet and that the Prophetes endured vntill Iohns comming denieth that he vvas a Prophet and maketh his ministerie a meane function betwene the function of a Prophet and ministerie off the gospell more excellent then the first and inferior to the other If he vvould haue had a coulor off his defense he should rather haue cited his fathers saying of him which calleth him the Prophet of the highest but that could not haue serued the turne nether For that the vvorde is there taken generally for those which teach the will off God which is often as hath bene shewed Yowr third exception that all the functions are not reckened vpp becawse they aske him not whether he was a Priest or Leuite is as vaine as the rest for therfore they aske him not becawse he tawght not being consecrated vnto any of them according to the ecclesiasticall order prouided in that behalf and that vvas one occasion off this embassadge vnto Iohn Last off all where in the margent he saith that the Pharises made false argumentes and that I doo the same he speaketh vnaduisedly for howsoeuer there was otherwise great ignorance in them yet that their reason vvas good herin it appeareth by that S. Iohn to proue his ministerie lawfull browght testimonie theroff owt off the scripture and for that our Sauiour Christ meaning to confirme the ministerie off Iohn asketh whether it were from heauen or off men In vvhich wordes condemning all ministeries vvhich men institute and that come not from heauen he confirmeth the Parises argument vvhich vvas that Iohn exercising a mynisterie not ordeined by the law should haue bene gilty of breach of the law if he could not haue shewed some extraordinarie vocatioÌ„ Thus appeareth that there vvas both bead and foot in this argumeÌ„t and that by all likelyhood true vvhich he could not impugne but by vntruth The 8. and 9. diuis vvhich follow haue as commonly the rest nothing but bare sayinges which becawse I shall meet withall againe I vvill heere passe ouer â–ª onely in the eight yt ys to be noted that he saith it is seruile to tie the church off Christ to the patrone off the Iewes Synagoge Wherin ether he saith nothing or he would haue vnderstanded more then he dare veter For if he meane that the church of Christ may not be in all ordinances and ceremonies coÌ„formable to that off the Iewes it maketh nothing to the pourpose but if he meane that the church hath now more libertie in adding ministeries then the Iewes had as his answer to that I set downe doth require then I see no cawse vvhy he should not haue so saied But that although he would say yet he durst not and therfore spaâ—â— thus vncertenly that vvheÌ„ I should shew the coÌ„trary he in this generall speach might haue some corner to hide him in Seing I must needes proue that the crow is blacke that is to say tharchbishoprick a new ministerie thus yt is proued That which hath diuers efficient cawses is an other and diuers but there are diuers efficient cawses off the ministerie off tharchbishop and those expressed in the word off god That there are diuers efficient cawses is manifest for that the office off Bishop Elder and Deacon being by God him self the office off tharchbishop was deuised and browght in by man And although this be proof enough to them that haue their senses exercised in the holy scripture where in the ministerie oftentimes they are called straungers which haue not their offices limited by the prescript off Gods word yet that it may appeare how litle modestie there is in this strong deniall
howshoulde considering that he opposeth the gouernement off his howse to the gouernement of the church yt followeth therfore that he appointeth hym to one particular church That by this word church must be vnderstanded one of thes three significacions yt standeth vpon this grownd that in none off S. Paules other Epistles or S. Lukes writinges that word church is euer vsed otherwise and neuer signifieth the church ether off Prouince or Dioces For when the Apostles vtter the companie off belieuers in such a circuit they alwaies speake in the plurall nombre and call them the churches of such and such a place And if it can be shewed that this word is taken in them for the faithful in a whole prouince or dioces I will giue ouer the hould of this argument If as I perswade my self that can not be doon then the church assigned vnto S. Paules bishop is a particular congregacion Moreouer S. Paul writing to Tite to appoint Elders throwgh euery towne which were vnblamable addeth because a bishop must be vnblamable Wherupon ether euery towne must haue a bishop or his reason is not well knit For he should both giue his rule off one thing and his reason off an other and it should come to passe that those churches vvhich haue no bishops might lawfully haue slaunderous and spotted bishops seing his onely reason why elders of euery towne owght to be withowt reproche is because a bishop must be so Againe vvhere it is saide that Paule and Barnabas apointed by voice elders in euery churche ether beside the auncientes off the churche the Bishop was ordeined or els the famous cities of Antioche I conium and Listra in the number of those churches there mencioned receiued no bishop But the Ans him selfe affirmeth that the Apostels ordeined bishops in the principall cities and townes therfore vnder thes wordes ▪ they ordeined elders by voice in euery churche ys vnderstanded that they ordeined bishops in euery churche For S. Luke vsing the same wordes to set for the the ministerie off all other churches wherwith he settethe forthe the ministerie off those famous cities vnlesse he will denie there were Bishops there he muste off necessitie graunt that the other churches had their bishops aswell as they Laste off all vnles yt be the institution off God that euery particular congregacion shoulde haue her bishop in that largies and bountifull liberalitie of ecclesiasticall ministers which S. Paule shewethe our Sauiour Christe bestowed vppon his churche after he was ascended nothing falleth to the lot of the partilar churches But yt ys horrible iniurie vnto the liberalitie off Christe so to shutte his hande which he opened so wide therfore it muste needes be that our Sauiour Christe gaue euerie churche her Bishop as for the apostles Euāgelistes and Prophetes beside that their ministerie was not streightned vnto particuler churchs they are as before hathe bene shewed ceassed There remaine therfore of the ministeries there reckened the Pastor and Doctor wherof whether the bishop be the same with the Pastor as some thinck or whether he conteine both Pastor and Doctor as other some esteme it ys manifest that ether euery particular churche must haue a bishop ▪ or els none of those ministeries there recited For if it be saied that taking a bishop for the same vvith a Pastor the particular congregations hauing the Doctor may haue one off them althowgh they haue no bishop it is easy to answere that if the Pastor most necessarie and vvhom the churche can worst spare doo not belong the Doctor can les be thowght to apperteine to a particular church And thus far owt of the scripturs for proofe of a bishop in euery particular church yt followeth to shew the traces of this institution in the primitiue church vvhich succeded next vnto the Apostels The same the D. supposeth the true Ignatius writeth thus Euery church should haue her altar and euery churche her bishop And lest peraduenture the D. should interprete euery church euery dioces or prouince beside that I haue shewed that signification of churche was vnknowen vnto those times the autors meaning is cleare to the contrary when he saithe euery church should haue her communion table which he calleth vnproperly an altar Onles therfore the D. will say that his meaning is there should be but one cōmunion table in a whole dioces or prouince this hole is stopped vp against him And if as he would make vs belieue this was Iohn thapostles scholer then amongest the testimonies of men this may worthely beare the bell Yf not as I for my part thinck yet the later he is the longer is proued this order of hauing a bishop in euery particular congregation seing he sheweth what the face off the church was in those times when he liued Epiphanius prouing a bishop and preaching Elder to differ which cometh after to be examined saith vvhere not as the Pope and the Answ in what great cytie soeuer there vvas found any vvorthy to be bishop there a bishop vvas appointed yea and vvhere there vvas not to fournish both bishop and preaching Elder there thapostles made a bishop and left the Elder So that by his Iudgement bishops were in greater nombre then then preaching Elders That the same was also in Cyprians time shall appeare God willing in the places after to be handled owt off him From his time vnto the Councell off Nice we haue the storie of Eusebius wherin as in a glasse we may see that the churche in this point was litle altered Considering that he assigneth the bishops charge continually for any thing that ether the Ans sheweth or I can gather to one church or to the churches in one citie onely Which maie better appeare in that his bishops are so often times called the bishop off a parishe as hath bene shewed and that he confoundeth a parishe with a churche a pastor with a Bishop as shall appeare so that onles the Answ will saie that there was in those times but one parish church pastor in compas off a prouince or dioces he muste be constreined to confesse that euery particuler churche for the moste parte had a Bishop And althowgh after time of the Nicene Councell there is no dowbt but that as the Bishops had more occasions of enlarging their boundes throwghe the disordered zeale off the godlie Emperours so they let not slip those occasions yet if we consider the estate off the churche what yt was abowte 400. yeares after Chryste we shall finde that bishops were not the tenth parte so thyn sowen as ours be now If a bishop ranne in to any slaunder and the slaunder pressing him he coulde not assemble a greate nomber of bishops to the ende he shoulde not remaine in that slaunder the Councell off Carthage was off aduise that his cause shoulde be hearde off twelue bishops and his owne bishop And an other that if an elder were accused he might call 6. bishops frō
Wherby also foloweth that where the popular estate or the rule of the beste beareth swaie they can not althowghe they vvould haue an archbishop yea herupon foloweth that ether the Canterbury or Yorke archbishop muste leese his head For yt is concluded off his highe diuinitie that as there is but one prince in the whole Realme so there muste be but one Archbishop His reason the Prince can not els be supreme gouernour off all estates and causes ecclesiasticall to say no more is senseles and hath no knot with that wherunto yt belongeth As if vvhen Roome had both Emperours and consules the Emperour could not be cheife gouernour off the consuls because the Consuls were equall amongest themselues I confessed yt vnconuenient that there should be one Caesar ouer the worlde but that yt may be he alledgeth Caluin that yt is moste absurd to what pourpose what contrarietie is here yt is enowghe for me that there may be and that lawfully a Prince of larger extent of dominion then the archbishop of his archbishopricke althowghe the prince vvould graunte yt him which vtterly ouerthroweth his cause and this being alledged off me afterward is clean passed by For his defense consisteth in this that the Popes widenes off iurisdiction ouer churches ys vnlawfull because he hath yt not of the gifte off Princes and in this that the externall gouernement of the church must be according to the forme and kinde off gouernement in the commen wealth Which is also manyfestly confuted there whence he hath borowed this temony For there he addeth that althowgh yt were graunted that there might be one Caesar ouer all the worlde yet yt followeth not that there may be one bishop ouer all the churches which notwithstanding muste needes folowe if the externall gouernement off the church muste be according to that forme and kinde off gouernement vsed in the commen wealth a For the distinction which supposeth certein ministers of the word and Sacramētes onely and certein to haue to gether with the administration off them the gouernemente also I refer the reader to that before written his vaine cauil that I desire to be vncontrolled off any but off God is answered The D. accuseth me off falsehood for that I charge bim with citing Augustine and Crysostome at large Towching Augustine that he vvas so alledged appeareth firste pag. 583. and both he and Chrysostom pag. 296. Where he saith he vsed that large quotacion onely once in Muscul Cyril and M. Fox he coulde hardly doo yt oftner in the two laste considering that as I remember he alledgeth them once onely but towching Muscul beside the place I charge him with he lefte his aduersary twise to his wide worckes Where he remembreth not that he sendeth to any other writers but with places quoted as particularly as he could his memory vvhich is so miraculouse at other times is here but miserable To helpe yt beside this place off Cal. he sendeth to his Institutes vvithowt any further restreinte as appeareth pag. 132. againe pag. 74. in his former booke for he hath quoted yt in this later Likewise that Damasus calleth Stephen Archdeacon withowt any direction pag. 344. Also alledgeth Gratian Polidore Volateran vvithowte any restreinte 589. pa. I omit that he sendeth towardes th end off his booke to the large feilde off godly interpreters that diuers times he gyueth the booke onely where he might gyue the chap. the chap. onely where he mighte giue the section all which are contrary to that he setteth downe Wherby may appeare what a hard mouth he hath and howe I speake sparingly off this kinde off allegation off his Charged heere by his fonde allegacion off Cal. Institut he answereth I knew there were sundry editions I did so but whether yt be absurd that he should leaue both the beste and moste vsual to take that which is worse and in the handes of fewe onles he mente to play vnder the boorde that men should not vnderstand I leaue to the readers iudgement His reason he had noted yt laboured it and was acqainted with yt is very simple For is yt meete that because he had made his booke a litle heuier with yncke he should be wedded so to yt as to neglecte the commen commoditie how he is acquainted with yt I knowe not but I trust yt hath and shall appeare that there is no more frendship betwene him and his booke in thes matters then betwene light and darknes But yt is foly to reason with him for he addeth Doctorlike that he both hath and will so vse yt still Howbeit how cometh yt to pas that euen in his former booke he hath alledged the later edition belike ether that was some tributary allegacion or els the latter was better to him there then his noted one Howe vniustly he chargeth me with vncerteine direction in ether all or the moste off thes he setteth downe I leaue to be iudged off that I haue said in that behalfe The reste off this diuis with the nexte is nothing but bare and bould affirmacions reproches and repetitions The nexte to it hath nothing but trifling and vnlerned questions before answered That set downe off the inconuenience off many speaking together according to the prouerbe many may sing but not speake at once is not as he saith needles but made way to the necessitie of hauing one which otherwise equal should haue some preheminence in that action The next hath nothing but railing wordes with repetition off repetitions and that beside the matter considering that the cautions I put off the moderator in the assembly off ministers I put not as alwais obserued off the D. Bishops and Archbishops but as those which owghte to be In asking scripture for proofe he dalieth seeking for that he would not find as the scholer the rod he must be beaten with The cocke a glorious and proud birde which will not suffer his victorie to be hidden but proclameth yt forthwith by crowing yet if he be ouercome hideth him selfe Wherin he sheweth a great deale more modestie then the D. which althowgh he haue neuer a spur of argument ether to defend him self or to offend his aduersary yet croweth as high as if the maistrie were in his hande But let yt goe let vs see his fighte To that I alledgrd of Peter chosen by the other Apostels to moderate the two firste actions notwithstanding yt be not set downe he answereth yt is wicked to grounde thalteration of the archbishop and our bishops gouernemente continued long and practised in the beste times of the church withowt yea contrary to the ground off scripture The long continuance onles they haue salte off the worde off God to preserue them argueth they be rotten and suche as caste an euill sauour That they were not in the beste times off the church hath before appeared whether yt haue ground owte off the worde that Peter was chosen by the Apostels
not yet yt was hard for him to haue suche knowledge off so many churches wherby he might giue so precise a sentence especially if they be compared with ours which often haue heretikes euen vnder there nose and either see them not or looke throwghe their fingers Where to declare the vnlikelihoode off our bishops with thē in times past Theodoret bishop 26. yeares is shewed to haue had neuer a halfepennie c his answere is he professed voluntarilie pouertie Wherto I haue litle to replie but that the D. for aduantage spareth not the honour of his authors it being a great reproche in so great wealthe as the D. supposeth he might lawfully haue had to be so beggarly The next I leaue to the readers iudgement That the office off Archbishop and Patriarck by Caluin was nothing but to assemble the Synod propound the matter gather the voices c. I haue shewed condemning those names in the generall he must nedes condemne them in the particular for in bothe those names the word off dominion ys put which he condemneth That he condemneth the office with vs is clearer then the sunne and that in diuers sortes first generall in that vppon the Apostles wordes no man may take honour but he that is called as Aaron he denieth yt lawfull to set vp any gouernement in the churche at the pleasure off men vvithovvt vvaiting for the commaundement of God and that the church office deuised vvithovvt his commaundement and expresse ordinance is vnlavvfull Wherby appeareth that the admonitions allegacion which the D. other where calleth grosse is in effect as fyne as Caluins Secondly in that he dothe in flat wordes declare that the holie goste tooke great heede that one should not so much as dreame off principalitie and dominion in the gouernement of the churche Thirdly in that he dothe precisely mislike that any should haue postorall charge ouer a Prouince which he declareth yet more manifestlie when he saithe the gouernement of the highe priest vvhich vvas ouer one nation ▪ being a figure off our Sau. Christ ovvght not to be follovved Wherby appeareth how vntrwly he chargeth me otherwhere with falsifiyng Caluin for saying that his iudgement is that no one should be minister off a whole nation That onely which he liketh off and confesseth to haue bene done according to the word off God is that when there were controuersies to be voided one had the preheminence to assemble the companie c. which preheminence we haue before confirmed so far is yt from vs that we can not abide yt That it can not be drawen further appeareth by that in the beginning off this treatise where it is manifest he streineth him selfe to speake honorably off the maner off discipline in the elder churches yet he saith there vvas almost nothing againste the vvord off God. And further that althovvgh there may be some lack in their orders yet because they did it oft good mynd and erred not muche it is good to gather yt Moreouer towching that institution which off all other is most plausible and least princelike that one in a churche should haue the name off bishop which notwihstanding as hathe bene shewed had no dominion nor autoritie to commaunde the reste he saithe that autoritie had no institution nor ground ovvt off the vvord of God. Wherupon yt is manifest those wordes off Calu. the ould bishops did frame no kind off gouernement but prescribed in the lordes vvord can not be drawen further then I haue said Where he expoundeth Caluins wordes euery singular bodie off church a dioces or prouince yt is as all the rest off these diuisions a shamefull bouldnes considering that Calu. doth in expresse wordes shut forthe a prouince and in calling it a singular bodie vsed moste propre wordes to set forthe a congregation which assembled into one place may at once be fed at one mouthe Where also otherwhere he supposeth Calu. meant by Prouinces suche as are vnder diuerse gouernours because one Prouince in one particular church in one kingdome vnder one Prince is but one bodie c. to omit his absurd speache that a prouince is in a particular churche in stede that he should haue said a particular churche is in the prouince let it be obserued that in making the whole churche in a kingdome but that singular bodie Calu. speaketh off he maketh notwithstanding the churche in one prouince which is the halfe off that yea euery diocese to be that singular bodie So that one singular and vndiuisible bodie off a churche must be twentie and one off them also cōteining an other which is absurde yea by this meanes the church in a 100. Prouinces being vnder one Prince shall be but one singular bodie His reason that he can not meane a particular parish because euery one hath not many ministers is a cauill For it is enowghe that ther were diuerse in some churches as in the churche off Philippes wheroff he spake to draw him to that consideration Besides that there was as shall appeare in the particular churches appointed by the word off God an eldership amongest whom it was meete the same order shoulde be kepte Where he supposethe Caluin to haue thowght the churche off Geneua with all those belonging vnto yt to haue made but one bodie off a churche all see the D. pouertie driuen to leaue his wide workes to seeke some comforte in his thowghtes onely knowen to the lord If I shoulde vse the aduantage off that he spake and I hearde off vndowbted witnesses that althowghe he had no preheminence before the lowest Mynister but onely to propounde the causes gather the voices c. and was chosen therunto euerie two yeare yet he misliked that that small preheminence shoulde so long remaine with one as which in time might breed in conuenience likewise that I hearde my selfe off Maister Beza which misliked off yt for the same cause affirming it cōuenient that it shoulde be done by euerie Pastor off the same resort in his weeke wheroff there be also other witnesses I say yf I should vse this aduantage a great deale more honest then his all see how that chaunge of presidētes which he derideth and will haue my onely phantasie should beside the scripture alledged and vse off the churches in Fraunce haue the approbation off these godly learned men But when in deede he deride the their iudgement written I haue smale hope that he will beare any reuerence to it onely spoken Neither require I that he esteme any thing theirs which can not be conuinced owt off their writinges let him wreste and wring wind and turne his worst But that we be not streight with him admit Caluin so thowght dothe yt follow that becawse he estemed a singular bodie off a churche scarce 20. small parishes lying round abowt wheroff euery off the ministers at the least meete once a weeke bothe for exercise off prophesie or interpretacion off the
b Diuis 9. pag. 442. c Councel Neocaesar d Possido in vita August Instit 4. l. ca. 4. 3 se vpon the eight coÌ„ â–ª maund a in the praef to the 3. ca. of this tr b vpon Phil. ca. 1. c 2. cap. off this tra Diuis 15. pag 445. Euse li. 1. de vit Const a Athana Apol. 2. b Costerius in the life off Ambro. c IeroÌ„ ad Rusticum Monach. d 1. Cor. 10 e Ier. vpon Titus Ier ad Oceanum f Di. 16. 17 pag. 446. g 4. carth 14. 15. ca. Tyron c. 5 Pag. 471 â–ª In the booke intituled the Discipline c. a 4. conc Cart. c. 32 Sozom. lib. 3. c. 9. Athanas 2. Apol. b August Epist â—0 a Possido invit Au. b Roma cap â–ª 3. c vpoÌ„ the eight coÌ„maund a Cal. inst 4. lib ca. â— sect 17. a M. Fox in the boke off M. Tindal c. b VpoÌ„ the 8. coÌ„maund c M. Elm. d 473. e Possid in vit August f Ad NepotianuÌ„ opa 472. â— pag. 83. pag. 200. pag. 473. Pag. 473 Conc. Ty roÌ„ 3 can 5. pag. 473. Diuis 18. pag. 447. Cart. c 34 Iud. 8. v. Diuis 19. pag. 447. Euseb 7. li. ca. 30. Ruffin 1. lib. ca. 19. Athana Apol. 2. Diuis 20. pag. 448. Ioh. 20. 1â— Theod li. 5. cap. 8. Socr. li. â— cap. 6. Diuis 21. pag 449. a 1. Tim. 3 â— c Vpon the 8. coÌ„maund Ierom. ad Nepot Diuis 22. pag. 450. Diuis 23. 24. 25. pag. 451. 1. Tim. 6. 6. 8. vpon 4. Ephes Diuis 26. pag. 452. CAP. VI. Pag. 454. 1. Cor. 4. 1. Diuis 4. pag. 455. * Tract 1. Diui. 6. pag. 457. a Diui. 15. pag. 367. vpon the Ephes e Diu. 42. pag. 390. Diuis 7. pag. 458. 1. Cor. 15. 9. Diuis 10. pag. 461. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Diui. 11. pag. 462. Heb. 5. 5. 6 a Diu. 31. pag. 380. Diuis 33. Pag. 381. b Diu. 14. pag. 465. c Diu 32 pag. 381. Diuis 41. pag. 389. d Diui. 33. pa. 381. e di 1617. pag. 467. f Diu. 41. pag. 389. a Diu 43. pag. 390. Diuis 50. pag. 396. Diuis 70. pag 417. b Diu. 18. pag. 469. Iohn 3. 8. a d 70. 71 pag. 4. 7. b â— Tract c in the 2. and 3. ca. off this Tract d di 16. 17 pag. 446 Throwgh desire off making no great chaunge off the order laid forth by the Doctor vvherby the reader should be muche troubled in collatioÌ„ of our bokes and partly for that my papers vvent so sone to the printâ— vvherby I could not correct that my self aftervvard misliked at is come to pas that there are diuers thinges vvherin by order it might haue bene better prouided for memory VVhich I haue partly endeuoured to help by this direction vvherby yt shall not be vneasy to finde any off the principal pointes conteined in this book THe scripture is a perfect rule off all actions which can fall into maÌ„s life aswell in defining thinges vnnariable as in giuing rules wherby thinges variable by circunstance may be compassed page lvij c. Whether refer that wherin is shewed what of Moses law remaineth page xciij Likewise that the Actes of thapostles are necessary for vs to folow page clv. As appeareth namely in the gouernement off the church disputed throwghowt the whole book and in that communitie they vsed which is not now Anabaptisticall cc. viij Hether also refer that yt is the vertue off a good law to leaue as litle as may be in the discretion off the iudge xciiij Also that yt ys one thing to be expressed and an other to be commaunded in the scripture xlv Wherupon the argument off autoâ—â—â—ie off the scripture is good 43. 81 But nawght from men especially in diuine matters xviij and xlvij Whether refer that the Godly writers and holie martyre died in error vj. Wheroff the example browght by me off free will is handled 54. an other browght by the D. off the millenaries althowgh he in part slaundereth the ould fathers in that behalf delij Discipline Ciuil THe magistrat ought to be seuerer in punishing offeÌ„ces vnder the gospell then vnder the law cxj. cxviij Neglecters off the word are punishable by the word lxx The law off capitall punishements remaineth xcviij Contemners off the word ought to be put to death lxviij Murtherers cij Incestuous and adulterous persons c. The punishing off the breaches off the second Table by death and not off the first is to begin at the wrong end cxvij Discipline Ecclesiasticall THe Ecclesiasticall discipline is prescribed in the word as the doctrine ccccxl Aswell vnder the gospell as vnder the law ibid. Amplified by comparison off the Ark Tabernacle Temple ccccxliiij Confirmed by examples off Dauid and Salomon which attempted nothing in the church gouernement without the expres word off God ccccxliiij Also off others lxxxvj That the form theroff owght not to be allwaies according to the forme off the coÌ„mon wealth cxxx clix ccxcviij dciiij That yt ys not allwaies conuenient that the form of the commen wealth should beframed to the form off the churche gouernement ccxxvij That the churche gouernement is one off the three markes off the church liij That yt is safely taken from the Apostels times and dauÌ„gerously from the first 500. yeares after them That the externall gouernement off the church is euill distinguished from the spiritual That yt hindereth not the ciuil discipline ij Calling THe callinges vnâ—â— the mynistery are defined off in the word of god For tha 〈◊〉 â— giftes necessary for the gouernement off the church fall into the offices prescribed in yt 462. Where are rehersed the proper giftes wherby they are seuered amoÌ„gest theÌ„ selues This is also shewed by that it is not lawfull to diminish those the lord hath set and therfore not to ad vnto them cccclxiiij Likewise by the demaunde the Pharisies made vnto Iohn ccccxxxvj A calling lawfull and yet extraordinary page xxxâ—â—j The Apostels Prophetes and Euangelistes are euil distinguished by the D. cccvij There can be none off these functions now withowt an extraordinary calling ccciij The same coulde not be a bishop Euangelist and Apostle at once cccxviij Epaphroditus was no Apostle in that sense that S. Peter was ccciiij An Euangelist could not withowt his fault be made a bishop much les could an Apostle 321. Timothe was an Euangelist and no bishop cccxij The abusing off the writers both ould and nue to proue Apostles Prophetes and Euangelistes ordinary ministers cccxxvij What maner a men they were which after those sent foorth into the whole world called them selues Apostles cccviij Hereupon we refuse the callinges of Archbishop otherwise called MetropolitaÌ„ and our kinde of bishop ArchdeacoÌ„ and deane as those which taken euen for the very principall church officers haue no ground in the word of God Proued in that they are conteined in nether of the places off the Ephesians or Corinthians where al the ministeries Ecclesiasticall are
Apostle should neede make any proufe of it but off him which doothe a thing staggering and waueringe ther might be some dowbte whether he synned and therfore the Apostle hauinge said that he is condemned in so doinge addethe this reason for that he dothe it not of faithe which beinge sinne is therfore damnable Where he saithe that if a man should do nothinge wheroff he hathe not assurance by the word off God that he dothe well that therby should be ouerthrowne Christian libertie in indifferent thinges the faulte is in his want off vnderstanding For euen those thinges that are indifferent and maye be donne haue their fredome grounded off the word off God so that onlesse the word off the lord either in generall or especiall wordes had determined off the free vse off them there could haue bene no lawfull vse off them at all And when he seethe that S. Paule speaketh here off ciuill priuate and indifferent actions as off eating this or that kind of meate then the which their can be nothing more indifferent he might easely haue seene that the sentence off the Apostle reacheth euen to his case off taking vpp a straw For iff this rule be off indifferent thinges and not off all I would gladlie know off him what indifferent thinges it is giuen off and off what not And the same also I require off him in the other generall rule off doing all thinges to the glorie off god For iff that reache vnto all indifferent thinges it must needes comprise also this action of his Which iff it doo then as no man can glorifie God but by obedience and here is no obedience but where there is a worde it must followe that their is a worde And semethe it so strange a thinge vnto him that a man should not take vp a straw but for some pourpose and for some good pourpose or will he not giue the lord leaue to require off a Christian man endewed with the spirite off God as muche as the heathen require off one which is onelie endued with reason that he should do nothing wheroff he hathe not some ende and that in all his doinges whether publicke or priuate at home or abroade whether withe him selfe or with an other he owght to haue regard whether that which he dooth be donne in dutye or no And iff the taking vp off a straw be donne to good ende either off helping him selfe or others regarde of profite or pleasure or what els it hathe testimonie off the word off god And if it haue not an ende and a Good ende will not the A. giue the lord leaue to coÌ„demne that in his infinite wisdome which men by the light off a litle wisdome do accompte folishe or will he be so iniurious to the iustice off god that he maie not iudge that to be synne whiche they saye is donne against dutie What also that some euen off those heathen men haue tawght that nothing owght to be donne wheroff thow dowbtest whether it be right or wronge Whereby it appeareth that euen those which had no knowledge of the word off God did see mutche of the equitie of this which the Apostle requireth of a ChristiaÌ„ man and that the cheifest difference is that where they sent men for the difference off good and euill to the light off reason in suche thinges the Apostle sendeth them to the scoole of Christe in his worde which onely is hable thoroughe faith to giue them assurance and resolution in their doinges And althoughe to mainteine his former vnaduisednes he had rather saie that men should doo nothinge but which they beleue not to displease god then with the godly learned to say that they ought to doo nothinge which they are not assuredly perswaded of that it pleaseth God yet euen this which he sayeth off beleuinge that it doth not displease God I would knowe off him Where he can fetche the grounde off but in the worde off god For iff he doo beleue that it doeth not displease God and beleife be not but in respect of the worde off god it must followe that he hathe some word off God which tellethe him that that dothe not displease the Lorde And where he accusethe this doctrine of bringing-men to dispere he dothe it wronge For when doubtinge is the waye to dispere againste whiche this doctrine offrethe the reÌ„medie it muste needes be that it bringeth comforte and ioye to the conscience off man. The reason which I assigned why it is necessarie to haue the worde off God goo before vs in all our actions namely for that wee can not otherwise be assured that they please God he dothe not once touche His secoÌ„de significatioÌ„ of these wordes not to be of faithe that is not to be an article of faithe if it had any grace in it yet it is merely idle in this place and helpe the no more to the vnderstanding of the place of Saint Paul nowe in hande then smoke dothe the eyes And where in the ende he saieth that thes places doo proue as muche for all cyuill actions as for ecclesiasticall and that I can no more proue by thes that a certaine forme off discipline is appoincted in the Scripture then that euerie ciuill action is precisely commaunded to be doone without any change I graunt it neither did I alleadge them therefore but was driuen into this disputacion onely by occasion before alleadged in the beginninge off this diuision and manifestly expressed in the next 7. Diuision pag. 86. WHere as I alledged that in making ceremonies and orders off the churche this owght to be obserued which sainct Paul requireth that they offende none but especially that they offende not the churche off God the first exception off the answerer is that this rule prescribeth the dutye vnto priuate men and not generally vnto the churche As thoughe the rule were not generall or this thinge were prescribed vnto them in respect of that they were priuate and not in respect off beinge Christians whether priuate or publicke in which case that which is commaunÌ„ded to one â—s coÌ„maunded to ahor as if the Lorde were so carefull in priuate offences and careles in publike And iff offence ought to be taken heede off in thinges doone withowt many witnesses withowte all countenaunce off autoritie and once onely how muche more owght yt to be taken heede off in the orders off the church which haue so many lookers on so greate coÌ„tinuance and suche force off autoritie to strike yt deeper in His seconde exception is that by this meanes the orders off the churche shoulde be subiecte to one or twoo mens liking or misliking which answer procedeth off two foule an ouersight and wante off vnderstandinge off the worde offense For Saint Paule by offense doothe not meane displeasure or discontement but that wherby occasion is giuen to anie of synne and transgression off the lawe off God which maie as well be with alowance as disalowance when all
the whole churche is for that time of the assemblie publike so yt may be well said that the noÌ„ber which meete in that place which is so apointed by the churche to heare the worde off God how small so euer yt be can not hinder the publykenes off that assemblie The places quoted in the margente to proue priuate celebrating off the Sacramentes are handled in another place That which is alledged owte of an article of the Suche churche that thinges othervvise indifferent doo after lavvfull commaundement after a sorte chaunge theyr nature we willinglie subscribe vnto howbeit withe any thinge which is here in coÌ„trouersie it hathe no knot at all but is a wandring sentence which hathe no fellow For yt is not debated here what force off authoritie the thinges haue whiche the churche ordeineth but the questioÌ„ is altogether what are the thinges whiche fall into the churches order The nexte diuision wherin he requireth answer vnto the place off the Corinthes off doing all thinges decently and orderly ys answered in that I haue shewed that the churche being bounde to this commandement in making her Ceremonies is therbye tyed not onelye to place nothinge in the churche agaynste the commandement off God but is bounde euen according to the commaundement to frame her orders in indifferent thinges Wherin the answerer althowghe he oppugneth the groundes which I vsed for the proofe off yt doothe I suppose agree with me and therfore there was no cause he should haue required any answer Caput 2. Diuision 1. pag. 95. IF he would haue proued that which I denie he shoulde haue shewed that thes authorities affirmed that the churche in making lawes off thinges wheroff the scripture hathe not precisely determined neede not to haue respecte to the generall commaundements off the scripture before receiued but that he is not hable to doo with any approued sentence And albeit he hathe subscribed to this sentence before yet in the ende off this diuision he beginnethe to sâ—lyde into his former error saying that in matters not prescribed in the scripture he can not tel whether to resorte to knowe the vse and antiquitie of them but vnto councells stories and doctors As thowge the scripture were not the loode starre vnto the churche in her decrees towching suche thinges and as thowghe the firste churches vvhhich had not suche stories c. had not sufficient addresse in the light off the worde off God to make constitutions by I graunte the church by stories c. vnderstandeth of their antiquitie but the knowledge of their antiquitie maketh litle or nothing to know how profitable or conuenient for the churche they be vvhich being that onely vvhich is looked into in ther establishing is drawne from the scriptures and not from antiquitie Howbeit because he pretendith agreement in this that there be certeine thiÌ„ges lefte vnto the order of the church with this coÌ„ditioÌ„ that they be doone according to the generall coÌ„mandements off the Scripture we will houlde him by his former vvordes and will not suffer him to breake froÌ„ vs vnles he doo not onelie priuilie nibble and bite abowte but in manifest wordes eate vp his former saying Notwithstanding in the great plentie the A. hathe off places for the proofe off this which we denie not let yt be obserued what partly vnproper partly vngodly choise he hathe made The first sorte off Testimonies owt off the auncient writers and councells are off off those which are in controuersie as whether bishopps maie haue suffringanes whether there owght to be metropolitanes c. Wheroff althoughe he bringe no testimonie owte off his antors that they are in the churches power to order yet he settethe them downe as thowghe there were neuer question moued off them and as if he had gained them by stronge hande off reason The seconde sorte are off those thinges which beinge determined by the worde off God off or on are owte off the churches compas to take order in As is that which he reciteth owte of Iustine off the deacons carying the brede of the holy supper off the lorde to those which were not present at the action off the supper and that which he alledgeth owte of the councell of Neocesarea that no man should be minister before 30. yeare off his age Likewise that which he bringeth owte off the Amyran councell that a minister can not sâ—ll the churches rightes especially in that sense the councell meaneth which is for his owne priuate profit The first of these is coÌ„trarie to the institution and the laste being sacriledge are simply forbiddeÌ„ in the worde of god The Scripture also determining that a man off those giftes which be required off the Minister off the word maie and if nede require owght to be receiued vnto the ministery and shewing further that those giftes fall into yonger yeares then 3â— yt muste needes folow that the churche determining flatly that none shall be receiued to the ministery before those yeares shuttethe the doore off the ministerie vnto those to whom the worde off God settethe yt open And also that this Councell is altogether owte off place alledged considering that it determined not off this as off a thinge wheroff the Scripture had not giuen sentence but as off a thinge vnlawfull by the Scripture and for that purpose it alledgethe the example off our Sauiour Christe which preached not before he was 30. yeare oulde Thes thinges daungerously set downe off the An. as indifferent which are not I thought it necessary to giue the simple reader warning that the Answ measure wherwithe he meteth indifferent thinges is vnsealed Ther is a thirde sorte owte off Tertull. de corona militis â—d prax Basil de sancto Spiritu Wheroff beside that diuers off them were neuer conuenient some off them vnlawfull they are all suche as the authors doo not permit to the order of the churche but vnder a false clocke off tradition put the churches necke vnder a seruile yoke off them And wheras he would faine saue thes places owte off the fire by saying that althoughe some grew in time to superstitioÌ„ and that one of his autors gaue to myche vnto vnwritteÌ„ traditioÌ„s he doothe but burne his fingers the places he can not saue For yt behoueth him to shewe that certen thinges not determined in the word off God are in the churches power and thes places yff they proue any thinge proue that the churche is bounde off necessitie to certaine thinges wheroff there is no commaundement in the worde off God for the which cause they are alledged off the papistes from whom it is not vnlike but they were borowed But yet it appeareth that there were thinges in the churche not expressed in the worde I graunte and more then that thinges contrarie but by what right yt doothe not appeare And in deede iff the answerer had light vppon some weywarde aduersarye that woulde haue debated this question with him these places wolde haue giuen him greate
owt whereby I could haue taken aduantage For beside that the ceremonies with vs are in greater nomber then August alloweth all men see that they are more vrged and the omitting off them seuerelier punished then the breache off the commaundementes off God in which case he will haue them abrogated For he scapeth far better which hath not preached a whole halfe yeare in his church then which preaching euery weeke twise leueth off his surplis once And yt is better with him whose whole liffe then whose capp is owt off square vvhich is ennemie off the crosse off Christe then which can not abyde the crosse in baptisme with those which leaue owt some ceremonie in burying the bodyes off the dead then vvith those vvhich murder the soules off the liuing All which thinges the place of Augustine giuing me occasion off I notwithstanding for shortnes sake passed by The Answer to the laste place off Aug. was needeles being the same with the third vvhich I subscribed vnto The answer to your conclusion had bene superfluous I hauing before declared vvherein I agree vvith yowe ād vvherein I withstand yow And vvhereas I laye to his charge that he fetcheth rules ovvt off the vvritinges of mē to square the Ceremonies by vvhich he might haue had in the vvord of god here certeine ād altogether true vvhich are there vncerteine ād in part vntrue he answereth that he browght thē not for that pourpose wherein beside that he calleth thē rules his answer is directly against that which he hath set downe For he chap. 1. diuision 9. pag. 94. making his beginning off the sentence off Saint Paul which he saithe is a rule for the church to examine her ceremonies by pursueth the selfe same point vnto this place And where he saithe they are meete for a Diuine to know yt is no answer considering that yt may be profitable for a Diuine to know many thinges which yt is daungerous to propound vnto the church muche more to propound them as rules to grownd the churches lawes vppon In the next diuision there is nothing to be answered or which hath not bene answered before In the next where he saithe that the priuate sentences off men in their Epistels of these pointes are off more credite then that which they haue published vnto the whole world yt is a saying meet for such a cawse as he defendeth For all vnderstand that men be more soudeine in letters to their freindes then in their bookes and that they burne more candell and make the file off their Iudgement and vnderstanding passe oftener vppon those writinges which they will submit to the Iudgement off all men then to the iudgement off one vpon those which they knowe shall come on the racke off their wrangling ennemies then which shal finde rest in the bosome of an easie ād frendly interpretation vpon those which they thincke shall remaine vnto all posteritie then which they thincke shall dye at the least with him to whom they wrote And therefore iff there were occasions to moue them to speake otherwise in their publike writinges then in their priuate yet that turneth all to the aduantage off those which alledge that which was spoken vppon the howse toppe rather then off those which presse that was rounded in the eare off one man Yf their priuate writinges varie not from their publike yt is so muche better for vs which are well assured that the publike we haue alledged stand off our syde Where I suppose him to attribute the order off church matters vnto the Bishoppes which he parteth with the prince and other wise men albeit yt will appeare that he shutteth owt diuers which haue interest in that consultation yet he might haue some cawse to complaine in that behalfe and yt was I confesse my ouersight Vnto the two next diuisions pag. 117 c. Where I haue shewed the places off Deut. 4. 12. are still in force against the error off the A. which in saing that in the time of the Iewes and during that estate yt was not lawefull to adde any thing c. gyueth to vnderstand that we are not so streightly bound vnto yt at this tyme he answereth that he applied that rule vnto the lawe off faithe and manners ▪ but he shoulde haue vnderstanded that in restraining the rule after that sorte therby shutting owt the lawes off making orders and ceremonies off the church he still falleth into that fault whereoff he is accused For hauing shewed that not onely in thinges which he calleth matters off faithe and manners but euen in the variable Ceremonies off the church there ys a worde off God yt is also true that he is accursed which in making orders off the church foloweth not the rule off the lawes off God prouided in that behalfe And I hauing shewed that the Iewes them selues had certen Ecclesiasticall Ceremonies in mariadge buriall c. which are not expressly commanded vnto them yf they as he confesseth had addresse owt off the word off God for all their lawes off what sorte soeuer and this curse fell off them if in their variable lawes they ether added or diminished from the word of God yt muste needes folowe that the Christians nowe in their variable lawes bothe haue a word to direct them and a curse for either adding or diminishing from that word Onles he will saie that the Christians in thinges which were a like left vnto the libertie off them and the Iewes are les bownd to folowe the prescript off the worde off God then were the Iewes which ys absurd In the places owt off Ieremy and Isay yt is euident that there is set forthe howe there shal be greater knowledge off the will off god vnder the Gospell then vnder the Lawe And euen that which I haue set downe off the people which should be as learned vnder the Gospell as the Leuites and Priestes vnder the lawe beside that yt conteineth a manifest truthe and therfore can not be to flatter the people as he surmiseth may be also gathered off the 5. verse off the 56. chap. off Isaie Where the Lord promising to bring the Gentils into a better place of his temple then the Iewes had before dothe not obscurely declare that which I saide Vnto the twoo next diuisions pag 118 c. for replie I saie that he answereth not to the matter For the questiō is not whether we haue fewer or moe lawes then they but whether we haue direction by those lawes which we haue to all thinges whatsoeuer belongeth vnto vs to doo as they had to doo that which apperteined vnto them To proue that there is a word off God for all thinges vve haue to doo I alledged that othervvise our estate should be vvorse thē the estate of the levves Which the Ans confesseth to haue had directiō owte of lawe in the leste thing they had to doo And when yt is the vertue off a good lawe to leaue as litle vndetermined and withowte the
are bound in the lawe of nature to punishe a murtherer by death Christian common wealthes haue two newe bondes whereby they are tied to a more streighter obseruation of this seueritie Last of al as this iudiciall lawe was giuen of God long before Moses so not to be in the nomber off lawes corrected by the comming of our Sa. Christ yt is manifest by his owne wordes whereby he confirmed this lawe of God saying that vvhosoeuer tooke vpp the svvord should perishe vvith the svvord And there is no doubt but if he had had like occasion to speake of other ciuil punishement by death established in the lawe as he had of this he would haue brought the same confirmation of them that he did off this The exceptions against this doctrine are off no valwe For if this be the truth of God there can be no prerogatiue against yt onles he can shewe some higher court then heauen and some cheif iustice aboue the Lord yt is not denied but the punishementes by death wherewith men haue established lawes which them selues haue for their better commoditie deuised may be ether mitigated or taken away by those to whom it apperteined nether is the magistrate by any thing I haue set downe bound to mitigate the punishement of theeues for their punishement may growe by the circumstance of place as in Scithia where all thinges lying opeÌ„ to the spoile had neede to belocked vp by a streighter punishemeÌ„t and some times by the disposition of the people lighter handed then others as if one had to doo with the LacedemonieÌ„s or some other nation in whom that sinne had taken deeper roote And I will not denie â–ª but euen these crimes of murther and adulterie may varie by diuers circumstances and therefore yt is in the discretioÌ„ of the magistrate according to the quantitie of the fault to appoint the maner of death sharper or softer But that there is any place time or other circumstance which can lessen these crimes that they should not be worthie of death vpon the reasons before alledged I vtterly denie As for the casting away of the studie and large volumes of the lawe which he imagineth to followe of this assertion he deceiueth hym selfe For euen when these lawes were fully in force the Iudges thereoff by reason of their shortnes comprehending many thinges not expressed had matter enoughe to occupie the greatest diligence memorie and sharpnes of vvit that could fall into any And if he aske our lawiers vppon vvhat groundes the greatest part off their houge volumes as he calleth them stand they will answer him they partly stand vppon the plaine vvordes off the lawe off Moses and partly off reason vncorrupt which is the equitie off the lawe vrged off vs And therfore althoughe our lawes be some time in forme diuerse from the lawes off Moses yet they vvill neuer graunt him which he hath not so aduisely set downe that our healthsome lawes be contrarie to Moses lawes For both being Good one off them can not be contrarie to the other where he saith that we of the clergie should be the best iudges by this meanes c. it is to open iniurie to charge vs with that vvhich vve openly renounce and condemne in him vvhich is that in medling in ciuill affaires they put their sickle in an other mans haruest Notwitstanding if in establishing of lawes for the Godly and peaceable gouernement off the common welth there may be no assistance of the ministerie wherby the lawes should be the better coÌ„passed to the equitie prescribed in the word of God and to take heede that nothing be doon against it there is no iust cawse to vphold the Bishops presence in the Parlament howse Where he saith that the lawes which our sa Christe made Mat. 5. 19 â–ª towching diuorcement for adulterie had been to no pourpose if the adulterer should off necessitie be put to death first he may be here iustly charged with that he hath vntruly surmised off me because he bringeth in our sa Christe a maker off lawes vnder the gospell whereas he made none in those places but expounded the lawe of God vvhich he had made from the beginning The other refusals made by the Iewes off their wiues were neuer any lawes but permissions onely and therefore in there abolishement there was no lawe of God abrogated Secondly yt was necessarie to vse that exposition notwithstanding that the punishement of the lawe by death remained For beside that the Iewes being vnder the gouernement off the Romanes had those ciuill punishements by death suspended vpon the pleasure off their officers which were often corrupted our sa Christe forseing all thinges did forsee what loosenes would followe in this behalfe And therfore as the office off a Good Doctor required he instructed the conscience and taught that albeit the Magistrate failed in the execution of the lawe yet that the former yoke being broken men were at their libertie to enter into a newe contract of mariadge with other Whereby he met with the corrupt opinion off those which dreame that the knot of mariadge is not cut a sunder by adulterie duriÌ„g the life of the parties maried Of the autorities which are brought to proue that the punishements by death off the lawe off God are taken away there is not one onely but Cyrill which maketh agaynst this cause yea which doth not ether in part or alltogether ouerturne his assertion And as for Cyrill I can at no hand allowe the reason shall appeeare where the clawes of this sentence are more plainly seen Augustine in the place cited vnto Pollentius hath nothing for the Doctor For he setteth him selfe to proue vppon the place off S. Iohn that the howsband ought to forgiue his wife seing our sa Christe forgaue the adulteresse Wherin not to enter into question whether that be well reasoned of Augustine or no and to passe by the aduantage which Erasmus autoritie may giue which calleth that sentence off August a hard sentence I answer that yt is one thing to say a priuate man should forgiue his iuiuries and nother thing to say that the Magistrate is not bound to take aduengement of them A priuate man may with commendation forgyue the trespace agaynst him selfe where the magistrate shal be in great fault if he poursew not yt And iff that place of August perteine vnto the Magistrate and our Sa. Christes example proue that the Magistrate neede not punishe adultery by death yt proueth as well that he neede not punishe adulterie at all For bothe our Sa. Christe forgaue her fâ—ely and gaue no sentence of any ciuill punishement against â—â—r and Augu will haue the howsband freely forgiue his adulterous wife Nay the place off Augustine maketh against him for â—n that he exhorteth the howsbaÌ„d to spare the bloud or life of his wife yt appeareth that in the church of God in his times this crime of adulterie was punished by death Musculus albeit
men beare witnes that bothe here and almoste euery where yow wringe my wordes clean contrary to my meaninge and therin I am well contente the Iudgemente remain with the reader And althowghe I am fully perswaded that ther was no occasion taken off euill by this doctrine yet if any weare it beinge the doctrine of the holy Goste whoso euer hathe taken occasion of euill hathe without repentance borne his punishemente and so shall yowe moste assuredly in that daye wherin the mouthe off wickednes shall be stopped Yt maie not be passed by that he in the begininge of the firste of thes sections matched the lawes off the Iewes whiche were the lawes gyuen by God him selfe vvithe the lawes of the moste barbarous and Prophane Tyrant that euer was suche is the reuerece he beareth to the lawes of god Note also that where I saie that I vvill ioyne vvithe him that the transgressions off the lavve vnder the gospell are to be seuerelyer punished then they vvere vnder the lavve He in pretendinge and makinge a brage that he woulde ioyne slyppethe me clean a syde and saythe that he will ioyne withe me that the magistrate is not bounde to the iudiciall lawe off Moses for the manner off punishinge as thowghe that were any thinge like that whiche I propounded And in that he answerethe no one worde to the two reasons whiche I alledged that is to saye for that bothe the knovvledge off the lavve is greater novve then thē and other gyftes off the spirite off God vvherby the lavve shoulde be better kepte more aboundantly povvred oute novve then then he dothe not onely slyppe a side but turnethe his blinde partes towardes me Nowe to returne backe to the Diuis pag. 123. I leaue to the iudgement off the reader howe importunate an aduersarie the D. is vvhich requireth answer of that which hath been so often answered In the next Diuis p. 124. seeking to mainteine his logicke in diuiding and defining he maketh him selffe pytifull to all that euer saluted that scoole For what an absurd saying is yt that becawse the definition off a generall thing agreeth vnto his particular therfore yt is the definition off the particular As though euery thing vvhich vvere verefied of an other were by and by the definition off it or as thoughe the same coulde be the definition of the generall and of the speciall And what a miserable defence of his diuisiō is yt which to proue that his three last partes are not conteined vnder the first alledgeth that they are not all one with the first But as I promised I will leaue this to the learned reader that I leese not the tyme in confuting off these tryfles The rest off his section is answered before In the next beside the sentence which I denie and he vntruly fathereth off Zuing. that in Ceremonies thinges are to be vsed in the church which are not conteined in the scriptures ▪ There is nothing which maketh any thing vnto the questiō For where he saieth that I mislike that of Zuing. If they be not repugnant to the vvord I haue tould him before that I neuer found fault with that but becawse he condēned the Ad. which will haue thē caste in the mould off the word off god And as for Maister Bezaes sentence repeted here off discipline left in the order off the church and that some thinges doon off the Apostles are not alvvaies to be follovved off vs whereby it seemed the D. would make the reader belieue that he meaneth this off the pointes of discipline nowe debated yff I should herein charge him with vntrue dealing vppon Maister Bezaes booke off epist. Which declareth in so many places and wordes that there is a Discipline off God left vnto his churche vnchangeable and precisely determined in the word off God and howe he maketh the partes thereoff the same which the D. fighteth against with might and maine he would paraduenture saie that he could take no notice off that which was not yet brought to light But when the same booke from whence he drewe thes outorities mainteneth those partes off discipline towching the Eldershipp the consent off the church in Eccesiasticall elections the right institution off Deacons c. as necessarye which he will haue arbitrarie he owght to haue vnderstanded that those thinges which M. Beza noteth vnder the name off Discipline left at the order off the church are nothing lesse then these which he would insinuate Which he might yet easelier haue vnderstanded by the place which he alledgeth out off the Corinthes that leaueth yt not in the churches power ether who shall gouerne or what they ought to doo which must gouerne but howe that gouernement which is prescribed may be vsed most decently in regard off circumstance off time c. For euen in that place the Apostle defining off certen pointes of discipline as that vvemen ought not to speake in the church c. declared sufficiently that he ment not to leaue the gouernement off the church in her owne disposition and order But what M. Beza ment by this arbitrarie Discipline yt shall yet better appeare in the next tractate off the Election off the church where this here spoken generally shall there belaied open by example the reste off this Diuis is answered In the next Diuis I leaue yt to the iudgement off the reader whether I haue truly gathered off his wordes As for the defense he maketh to proue Truly and Purely all one for so he must if he mainteine his answer the first reason he bringeth that a man may preache true thinges and not truly is cleane ouerthrowne by his owne answ for to ouerthrowe that which he falsely attributeth vnto the Adm. that the word is not truly preached becawse the Ministers are not duely called he saithe that the reason is not Good becawse ho we wicked soeuer the man be which preacheth yet he may preache the true word off God. Here ether the Ans must make to preache true thinges and to preache truly all one or els he hath not answered to the argument he supposeth the Adm. to vse The other is for that S. Paul vseth these wordes in truthe for syncerely Wherein beside the former fault which is the contrarietie with him selfe he should haue learned that that maner off speach is taken off the Ebrues which as they call a lie not onely that which is spokē but that which is doon or imagined against the truthe so likewise contrary Which maner off speach not being receiued in our tounge is fondly and out off time pretended considering also that the translatiōs in our tounge as in others haue shunned that phrase as that which they could not reache vnto Tract 2. and 3. according to the D. Off election of the minister Cap. 1. Diuis 1. Off the Tryall off ministers in learning and conuersation THe replie standeth vpon the certeine and vnfallible grounde off the worde off God which is that the
into the churche and make off the hande and the eie vvhiche are twoo members but one Vnles yow vvill saie that he that is promoted from one Ecclesiasticall degree vnto another kepethe the same still vvhich he had before he vvas promoted by which reason the bishope and the Archbishope are deacons also because they sometimes had that degree And then yt is required off them that they doe the offices off all those functions the names Wheroff they beare for there are no idle and voide names in the churche whiche can be seuered from doinge the dewties that those titles require And it is as if a man passinge from one office or dignitie in the common wealth vnto an other vntill he come to the highest beinge in that office or dignitie shoulde be saide still to haue all the vnder offices and dignities by the vvhich he hathe passed And not that onely but vvhen a man from priuate estate is called ether to office in churche or common welth together with the publike parson vvhiche he hath gotten he kepeth his priuate estate still Yt hathe bene sometimes I graunte that either throwghe ignorance off the institution of God or throwghe ambition of some which desire to haue all in their owne handes or vpon some extreme necessitie the pastor hathe donne that whiche belongeth to the office off a deacon and contrariwise But althowghe I should graunte that one might be ordeined to be bothe Pastor and Deacon whiche is as monstruous in Theologie as yt is in nature that one and the same shoulde be halfe a man and halfe a woman yet yow helpe not your selfe that way For in sayinge that he may be a minister of the worde yow confesse that he may be also none but a deacon onely whereoff also there are examples i◠in our churche Last off all those Archedeacons which haue the degree off a pastor in our churche do not examine by that they are Pastors but onely in respecte that they be Archedeacons And so whether he be pastor or deacon together or deacon onely the disorder remaineth still that the inferior and he whose callinge is contented with smaller giftes is made iudge off his sufficiency whiche is superior and vvhose callinge requirethe greater giftes Whether the Archedeacon haue the examination committed vntho him onely I referre me vnto the booke off ordering ministers and to that whiche I haue before alledged Here I vvould haue the reader mark that this disorder of ordeininge ministers at the testimonie off an Archedeacon came from Rome as Ierome bothe notethe and confuteth This reason is altogither different from the seconde For althowghe he were by neuer so many and neuer so well examined yet were it vnlawfull for the Bishop to admit him as this third reason dothe suppose that is to saie vppon the credit of the Archedeacon vvithovvt his ovvne knovvledge vvhiche I doo not gather off the wordes off the Archedeacons presentation as yow would make me but off the answere of the bishop Take heede that the persons vvhom yovv present vnto vs be apte and meete for their godly conuersation to exercise their ministeri devvly to the honor off God and edifyinge off the churche vvhich vvordes vvhether they haue that sense vvhiche I alledge I leaue to all men to iudge off the forme off the vniuersities presentation helpethe yow not because there is no suche answere made by them againe vnto the presenter vpon whiche I grounde my argument and yt maketh muche against yow For I dowte not but that forme of presentation by some one of that facultie wheroff the presented person is was therfore browght in because neither all the vniuersitie to whom he is presented nor the vicechauncelor off whom he is to be admitted can allwaies take knowledge off his sufficiency for the degree he asketh As the vicechancelor beinge a lawier neither he nor diuerse other off the vniuersity off them selues are able to iudge whether he be meete to practise in phisike but are driuen to stay vpon the faithe off the presenter so that yow likening herein the Archedeacons presentation to the vniuersities doo therby confirme that bishops admittance is oftentimes suspended off the trust of the Archedeacon I would yow had that reuerence of the holie scriptures that yow pretend often we should then passe this controuersic easely But for the place wheroff it is said I make a shipmans hoose yt shall be seene how trwly yow haue spoken For the declaration wheroff I take the 10. verse off that chap. For when S. Paul saith let them first be tried and then minister yt is as muche as he should saye that he should not applie them to the ministery before they were tried Whereupon I conclude that if that place commaunde Timothe that he shoulde not applie any to the ministerie before triall the same implieth that he should trie them for so muche as any other mans triall withowt his owne is no triall wherupon he might proceede to the applyinge of them to the ministery especially considering that otherwise he should offend against that which he forbiddeth in another place off sodeine laying on of handes And if it be said that it is to be vnderstanded of the deacons the answere is that iff he commaunde that off the deacons election muche more he requirethe it in the Bishops And wheras he saithe I am still contrary to my selfe I aske him wherin In that forsoothe I therby conclude that the bishop should be the examiner where did I euer denie it But if he thinke any thinge grow vnto the lord bishops or that therfore the bishopp alone may examine and ordeine because I graunt that he hathe interest in booth he hathe ouercast the summe is not so great To shew that the same owght to be the examiners that are the chusers it is sufficient to haue shewed it in one the law beinge the same in all which is in one That it can not be restreined vnto Timothy alone which S. Paul commaundeth him to doo and that he was no bishop but an Euangelist shal be handled hereafter Yow that charge me with contrarietie wher there is no coulor must be here this second time admonished off off this faulte in this short section for in affirminge not once nor twise that those thinges which touche the election is that epistle are spoken vnto Timothe alone yow affirme that plainly whiche yow denie vnto me that is that S. Paul maketh the same the ordeiners and examiners Salamon saith that all the vvordes of the mouthe off god are plaine to him that vvill vnderstand and streite to them that vvould finde knovvledge Wherfore I meruaile not if the answer because be would so faine haue a broad vvay wher he may driue a sumpter horse and is nor contēt with the lordes path waie finde many difficulties and stoppes But alas what paines he taketh in liftinge at a fether And of the three difficulties that are here moued two of them whiche are towchinge triall
and Doctors as thowghe it belōged vnto the churche and the churche had put yt ouer vnto them Yt is enoughe for me that the churches subscription was there and that not for a cyphre Therfore althowghe S. Luke for shortnes sake did call yt the decree off the Apostels and Elders yet S. Paule whiche gaue them to the churches and whiche in other places standeth so muche vppon the authoritie off the churches to stoppe the mowthe off the contentious did not by all likelihood omyt the authoritie off the churche to gyue them the more grace withe the churches vnto the whiche he delyuered them The Ans whiche will proue nothinge him selfe but off whome wee muste take all moste althinges at his bare worde hathe notwithstandinge a great grace in settinge me to proue all thinges be they neuer so manifeste Let him then vnderstande that this whiche he requirethe profe off is confirmed by the authoritie off maister Cal. and maister Bulling The manner off speache also is in Liuy where the consul is sayed to set vp an other consul into the place off him whiche was dead when he did yt not by his owne authoritie onely but by voices off the Senate and people Yf the Answ coulde haue firste gyuen his reader a drinke off the riuer off forgetfulnes to haue made him forgette what he owghte to proue peraduenture this talke off his mighte haue some ende but iff he carie in minde that he hathe to proue that almoste al ecclesiasticall writers doo affirme the word liftihg vp of handes to be vsed in the scriptures for the solemne manner off ordeining ministers by imposition off handes and not for the election by voices I say iff he cary this in minde he shall perceiue easely howe idle for the moste parte this talke is And verily all thes authorities here browghte are either vaine or directly againste him selffe or in sufficient to proue that whiche he vndertaketh For to what pourpose are here alledged two places owte off maister Caluin two Canons gyuē to the Apostels and the Testimonie off Ierome They proue that lftiing vp off handes is taken in ecclesiasticall writers for imposition off handes whiche is confessed by me in plaine wordes But to the perfourmance off your promise that almoste all the ecclesiasticall writers affirme that this worde is so taken in scripture yet there is not one syllable In this rancke also off idle testimonies is that whole section off maister Gualter For I confessed him to thincke that the word was so taken but yet so that withall he ioyneth the election off the people by voices Whiche the Answ woulde by that signification off the worde ouerthrowe So that all thes browght in off the D. looke another waie then he woulde haue them That the Canons attributed vnto the Apostels make not to proue the sole election off a bishoppe shall be discussed after here it is onely sufficiente to haue shewed that they make not to proue that whiche the Ans alledged them for Wherin I meruaile also what he meaneth to aske leaue of me that yt may be as lawfull for him to vse them as it is for me as if I had vsed them otherwise thē I owght I neuer vsed them as the naturall canons of the Apostels I haue shewed that they are not nor can not be theirs but as the Canōs off other Councels where amongest the bad there are founde some good And I neuer vsed them but where I confirmed by Testimonie off the worde off God that vvhich I bringe them witnesse for Therfore this phrase beinge vsed thrise or fowre times withowte all occasion argueth hym to be a vaine trifler whiche becawse he hathe nothing to answere gyueth hym selfe the bridle to forge and surmise all maner off vntrwthes And where by this preface yt semeth the man woulde haue stricken this matter as dead as a dore naile yet hauing leaue to vse them he hathe not so muche as once come neere vnto the matter ▪ onely he hathe gained some fewe lines to encrease his confused heape The next rancke is of those whiche are not onely not profytable but directly hurtefull vnto his cause In whiche number is the witnes off Maister Bull. that vvorde vvhich signifieth lifting vp of handes is so placed that vve may vnderstande either that they vvere chosen by voice off the people or ordeined by laying on off handes especially if he had added the fowre next wordes I thinke bothe vvere doone Wherby appearethe that Maister Bullingers opinion is that bothe the churches chose by voices and the Apostels laied on their handes which directly ouerthrowethe the Answ For his answer is suche that onles the worde doo onely signifie there the ceremonie off imposition off handes and not the election by voices yt goethe to the grownd therfore Maister Bulling sayinge that boothe were doone in this place there coulde be no flatter testimonie againste hym then yt And where he cyteth Maister Bullinger that he is elected by common suffrages off the People vvhiche is chosen by the testimonie off the beste I knowe good reader thow merueileste not that it comethe owte off tyme for that is his ordenarie but doest thow not meruaile what misticall rethoricke hathe seperated so farr a sonder this sentence from the other whiche he before alledged Leue to meruaile there is no greate arte in it but there is some crafte For if thow gyue heed vnto him yt may appeare yt was onely to couer the trechery whiche he vsed in takinge bothe that whiche goethe before ād that whiche cometh after leuing quite owte those wordes by me alledged whiche stande in the myiddest off those two sentences marringe his whole marcket And becawse yt woulde haue to palpably appeared if he had doone yt in one and the same place he makethe thē to come as it were strangers owte off two seuerall countries that dwell harde together For the sentence it selfe what would he trowe yow conclude That the bishope muste haue the election yf it be not that I knowe not wherfore yt is browghte Yf he meane to vse yt therun to then muste off necessitie Maister Bullinger speake thus that he is elected by the commō suffrages off the people whiche is approued by the testimonie off the beste bishops Doe yow lawghe at thes thinges when the D. is in so good earneste Seinge he seeth that both the testimonie off the Scripture ād writers oulde and newe Papistes onely excepted gyue intereste off election vnto the people yet rather then yt shoulde fall from the bishopps he maketh a metamorphosis and change off the Bishoppes into the people The meaninge off Maister Bullinger if any coulde be so ignorāte as not to vnderstand is that the faithfull onely haue intereste in the election off the churche and that the Papistes haue not nor owghte not to haue to doo in it nether any other heretickes and scismatickes from the churche Whatsoeuer yt be yt can be by no means drawne to preiudice the
shoulde be mēte Therfore if yow had spared that cauil yow mighte haue bene cleare of two moe errors which yow are fallen into by affirminge partly that S. Luke by the worde lifting vp off handes signifieth the whole solemnitie of creatinge ministers which can not be true seinge he expresseth two other parts off yt whiche are praier and fastinge partly in affirminge that he dothe in the wordes off laying on off handes all waies vnderstande the bare layinge on off handes onely when as in two off those places whiche I haue alledged it maie appeare that by those wordes is noted not onely the puttinge on off handes but also the praiers whiche were made for the receiuinge off the giftes off the holie goste Which thinge expressed in an other place to haue bene done by Peter and Iohn we must esteme obserued at othertymes Yf I had not browghte the place off the Actes the A. had had nothinge to saie to that I alledged of Saint Lukes borowinge this phrase not off those which came many yeares after but of those which were before But seinge destitute off yowr owne yow are entred vppon my possession againste my will and so also that yow vvill thruste me owte let yt be sufficient that yow haue eased yowr selfe heere a vvhile I saie therfore that this place maketh againste yow in that this vvorde in that place signifieth not a layinge on off handes vppon the heades off the chosen but a chusinge by voices consideringe that wee reade plainly that he chose his Apostels by voice Let vs heare now how it maketh against vs Firste becawse the word is not there taken for liftinge vpp off handes but for appoinctinge and ordeining As who shoulde saie yt is not vsuall vnto the scripture and to all speaches by figure in one parte to note the whole ād therfore S. Luke by that one forme off election passed by the céremonie off liftinge vp off handes notethe this election whiche was made by voce off our Sauiour Christe yt maye be also applied vnto other electiōs wherin by goinge from one syde to another or by writinge his voice in a table the consente off the chuser is vttered So dothe the scripture by bondes and chaine vvhiche are particular kindes off restrainte note all manner off restraincte off libertie althowghe a man haue nether bondes nor chaine 's a bowte him So that that which is so often saide in the gospel simply off our Sauiour Christes chusing his Apostels S. Luke did here in figure not without greate grace vtter Where yow saie that by this means yt signifieth not to ordeine by suffrages in deede in this place yt can not consideringe that our Sauiour Christe was but one But vvhere yow vvoulde conclude therof that Paule and Barnabas by their voices onely chose the ministers and elders Yt is further a sunder then euer yow can sett together heere yow muste be admonished that where the moste off yowr witnesses did forsake yow before yow beheere forsaken off them all For there is neuer a one off the newe vvriters especially named of vs bothe but vppon that place off the Aces hathe in plaine wordes approued the election by the churche Secondly the person off our Sauiour Christe whiche chose with whome none mighte be ioined in commission and the person off the Apostels whiche coulde not be chosen of any but off God did sufficientlie off them selues withowte further addition argue the sole election off our Sauiour Christe But in the 14. Actes seinge nether the Apostels vvhiche did chuse vvere suche as mighte not be accompanied off the churche nor the Mynisters that were chosen off suche degree as mighte not likewise fall into the choise off the churche and consideringe also that all the elections off the ministerie spoken off before in whiche the Apostels had to doo vvere by consente of the churche yt is cleare that if S. Lukes meaninge had beene to tye this election as streighte vnto Pau. and Barn. as the other to our Sau. Christe he woulde haue put in vvordes vvhich mighte as clearly haue declared that meaninge in this as the circūstances of the persons doo in the other Thirdly if this worde whiche notethe the choise by voices shoulde be restreined vnto Paule and Barnabas then also the vvorde vvhich declareth that they praied shoulde onelye be restreined vnto them for as that is gyuē vnto them so is this Nowe if it be absurde to saie that in those publike praiers Paule and Barnabas onely praied yt is as absurde to saie that they onely chose and the same may be saide off fasting For that which followethe vvith fastinges is all one as if he had saide fasting sauinge onely that S. Luke for elegancy sake and to a voide the multitude of participles comminge so thicke turned the verbe into the nowne so that for so much as Paule and Barnabas did not onely faste but the churche also yt muste followe that they chose not onely but the churche vvith them Therfore as S. Luke in saying that Paule and Barnabas praied and fasted meaneth not that they praied and fasted onely but that they wente before the reste in gouerning those Ecclesiasticall actions euen so in sayinge that they chose by voices he meaneth not that they chose alone withowte the churche but that they guyded and directed the iudgementes off the churche Laste off all seinge that all the twelue to gether woulde not enterprise to doo any thinge off their priuate autoritie vvithowte consente of the churche muche les can yt be thowghte that Paule and Barnab woulde attempt yt Hereto make an end of this dispute I will answer that vvhich is brought off this vvord p. 163. And first I deny that euer I saide that this word by it selfe withowte ioininge any thinge vnto yt signifieth election off many by voices for yt can not signifie any thinge vnles yt be ioyned with somethinge These vvordes off the churches althowghe they declare of vvhome the election vvas made yet they are not added to note the manner of the election as the vvorde Act. 14. but to gyue credite vnto the embassadors vvith the churches vnto vvhich they wente that they mighte safely committe their monie vnto them for the behoufe of the churche off Ierusalem Therfore it is nothinge yow alledge that this addiciō off the churches had bene needles if the word liftinge vp off handes had signified off it selffe an election by voices For Sainte Paule shoulde not haue to the full aduanced their credite vvith the churches if he had giuen onely to vnderstande that they were chosen by voices of many considering that they were chosen not only by the voices of many men but by the voices off many churches Wheruppon I conclude that S. Luke Act. 14. vsed that word as the Grecians before him for electiō by suffrages and withal put him in minde that his certein and manifest thinges haue neither grownd to stand on nor light to shew them by
There are but two communities one Anabaptisticall which maketh equalitie off all thinges which is and euer was vnlawfull the other Christiā vvhich prouideth for neede of those vvhiche haue not vvherwith to finde them selues vvhich is and owghte to be perpetuall amongeste all Christians Therfore yow can not escape vvith this circuit of vvordes for either that communitie in the Actes vvas suche as owghte to be amongeste vs vvhiche yow denie and propounde as an absurde thinge or els it vvas Anabaptisticall vvhich is blasphemous againste the spirite off God. Althowghe men maie be good Christians withowte sellinge their landes and distributings of the price off them vnto those whiche haue nede yet they can not be good Christiās if for necessarie releife of the poore of the churche weroff they are they be not contente to sell the neede so requirring euen their landes And suche was the estate of the churche off Ierusalē vvhere there were so manie poore and so fewe riche that the vvante of those vvhiche had not vvith muche a doo vvas supplied by sale off landes and howses off them that had suche possessions Which extreme pouertie maie easely be seene in other places vvhere not hable to be fournished of the riche of that churche yt vvas faine to be supplied by diuers other Vnto the reasons alledged owte off S. Paule to proue that the same communitie is commaunded of him to all Christians yowe answere not one worde Vnto the vvhiche I vvill ad this that I doubte not but that vvhiche vvas doone there vvas so farre from oxtraordinarie doinge that yt vvas doone by the cōmaundemente of God in the lawe vvhere the lorde chargeth the Israelites that there shoulde be no beggers amongeste them For Saincte Luke seemeth to haue alluded to that place whē he saithe there vvas no needy amongeste them vvhich expresseth moste aptely the Hebrew worde which Moises vsethe That which I browghte off Ananias and Saphira was to proue there was no suche communitie amongeste them as yowr answer supposed and to glase vp the the windowes of Anabaptistry vvhich yow had opened And surely if the anabaptistes had as they neither haue nor can haue warrant of their communitie by this example off the moste pureste and ancientest church and in deede then the onely church in the worlde approued by all the Apostels replenished vvith the spirite off God they shoulde haue stronger houlde then M. D. shoulde euer be hable to pull from them I doo not thincke yow fauour the Anabaptistes communitie but partly seduced off others and partely overcaried vvith the violence off yowr affections yow are vnawars fallen into that errer vvherby the Anabaptistes grownde it Where I saide that all off the churche did not sell their possessions I confesse the worde possession was not so aduisedly put seinge therby is properly signified howse and lande and those which vvee call vnmouable goodes vvhiche Saint Luke saithe vvere solde off as many as had them But yet nothinge falleth of that for vvhich I did alledged yt and it is rather therby confirmed For shewinge that all owners off howse and land did sell them and not that euery one vvhich had other goods did the like therby is gyuen to vnderstande that not euery one which had monay or other mouables brought them vnto the Apostels The Adm. reason yow are not able to stir For yf S. Paul. For auoiding suspicion in a monay matter did communicate the election with the churches vvhy should he not to auoide suspicion off percialitie ambition and tyranny communicate with them the election off the ministers Surely he was as far from suspition off this couetous trechery with all men as from suspition off these faultes And so much farther as such excellent wittes and learninge as was in him are easelier ouercome off those other vices then off this pilferinge off monay which the grosser and vnlearned sorte for the moste parte offende in Na vvhy shoulde not S. Paule be in feare off this monay suspicion if he had taken vpon hym the election off the ministers shuttinge owte the churches Doo yow thincke that those which woulde haue doone hym that iniurie to thinke that he woulde haue turned the churche money vnto his owne vse which often times with his owne hande erned bothe his owne lyuing and others too vvhich refused the wages which he might iustly haue chalenged woulde not also haue suspected hym off the same faulte if he had chosen the ministers at his pleasure withowte consente off the churche Or doo yow not thincke that there are manie which suspecte diuers off the Bishopps that waie which saie that for a dishe of fruicte of the gouldē gaiffe they lease owte and make all manner off marchandise of the Lordes orchardes that he vvhich hathe no gifte in his harte yet if he haue a gifte in his hande neede no other keie to opē the church doore and enter into a benefyce Yf therfore for the auoidinge of suspiciō of corruption by moneie it was needeful for Sainct Paule to communicate the election off such ministers with the churche howe muche more was yt needefull for the auoidinge off bothe the suspition off that vice and diuers others he shoulde doo the like in the ordinary ministers And if that vvhere needefull in S. Paule for vpholdinge off his honeste estimation to the greater fruicte off the gospell I saie as I saide vvhat Archebishop shall dare take vppon him the makinge off a minister vvithovvte consente off the churche For if Saint Paules innocencie of life vvhich as the diamonte a peble stone might shame all the Archbishoppes that liue this daie had neede off this aide they muste off necessirie runne into suspicion off all those vices vvhiche contemninge the iudgemente off the churches make suche elections off their owne autoritie Where yow saie that Saint Paule mighte have chosen them him selfe if he woulde I saie that it is vntrue ād a manifeste begginge of that in controuersie And to saie so is asmuche as if yow had saide he mighte haue hazarded his good estimacion if he woulde and lefte it at the curteousye off quarellers which sowghte euery occasion of speakinge euil of his ministerie Beside that yow muste vnderstande that in the gouernmente of the churches the Apostels vvere gouerned by the spirite of God whose counsaile when this was it was no more lawful for him to refuse yt thē to disobey the lorde Touching the vntrewth he chargeth me with in that I saide the churche chose 1. Act. it is before answered And it is a vaine quarell of the A. that there was no election off the church becawse an Apostel maie not be chosen by men As thowghe I had not set downe before when I spake off that election that I mean not the choise which was made off one owte off those two but the choise off those two owte of the whole churche not that choise which determined the Apostellshipp but which determined who they shoulde stande
the Epistell againste the circunstance off the place he alledgeth that the moste off the preceptes conteined in that epistell doo properly perteine vnto Timothe as he is a bishop Which is vntrwe especially in that sense he taketh a bishop which the Apostels neuer knewe off for there shal be scarse two sentences found in the whole epistle which agree not to euery pastor And set aside those whiche cōcerne teachinge there are very fewe not commen with him vnto an elder which onely gouerneth Beside diuers belonging vnto the whole church as well as vnto him and some rather to other partes off the church then vnto him yet iff the moste shoulde properly belonge vnto him howe can he proue that the sentence off not layinge one off handes rashly doth onele belonge vnto him he hath cyted many to proue that Saint Paule saith yt doth belonge vnto the bishop which is not denied but that yt doth onely belonge by this place off Saint Paule which is denied he hath not one Nay diuers off his authors heere alledged haue the contrarie off that he pretendeth to proue by them For Bull. I haue saide Calu. denyinge that ether Paule or Timothe did any thinge in elections withowt the consent off the church towching the bare ceremonie off layinge on the handes he dowteth whether yt were doone by one or many And Ierome althowgh he saie that the ordinacion belonged to the bishop yet I haue shewed in the former booke that he cōfesseth that that was by no order of God or rule of the Apostles by which he confesseth that the bishopps were equall vnto the reste of the elders but onely by constitutiō off men Therfore he is vntrwely cited to confirme that by this place off the Apostell the bishoppe hath ether the election or ordination vnto him selffe As for Chrysostome and Oecumenius vnto whome is added Beza pag 226. Where this is repeted I answer at ones that yt semeth violent that the Apostle vsinge the worde eldershipe shoulde shutte forth those which were properly called elders And where I alledged pag. 226. that Chrisostome ment not by those wordes to put a distinctiō betwene elders by age and office I was deceiued The occasion was because he doth so in the same epistle where he had no more cause then heere and not lokinge vppon the the place when I wrote I tooke one for another But yt is to be noted that their interpretation is directly againste the D. for Chrysostome affirmeth that the Bishoppes off Ephesus which appeare to haue bene diuers in the Actes did lay on their handes and Beza that all those vvhich had the mynistrie off the vvorde are meant by the vvord presbitery So that by their iudgement one onely did not ordeine nor lay on handes both which the D. affirmeth As for the other sentence off Chrysostome with Theophilacte althowgh Paule lefte vnto Tite to doe those thinges which were ioined with most honour yt foloweth not that he lefte them to be doone otherwise then himselfe did them But he doth to much abuse his reader which would make hym beleue that he drewe this from the godly writers which he hath from professed enemies off the trwth For thes are the reasons off Pighius which to proue that the bishopp onely should choose and not the church alledged thes twoo places off Tite and Timothe which the Answerer hath Thus the firste reason off the D. with all the authorities wherwith he hath walled yt is gone to the ground for as for Ambrose testimonie yt maketh nether whot nor kolde no man dowteth but that Timothe owght to be circumspecte in ordeininge ministers The second reason is that iff the election off a bishop had off necessytie perteined vnto the people thē S. Paul would not haue writtē to Timothe of yt but vnto the churches as well as vnto him As though there were not many thinges in those epistles necessay for the churches to doo or as though they inscribed vnto Titus and Timothe are not written for the instruction of the whole churche euen in that very sentence off imposition off handes For when Saint Paule tawght that Timothe mighte not lay on his handes rashly he tawght the whole churches that they shoulde not chuse any rashely What is I besech yow in Saint Lukes two bookes dedicated vnto Theopilus which doth not aswell perteine vnto all sortes off men in the church as vnto him That the holy ghoste therfore intituleth his bookes sometimes vnto particular persons was not that the Doctrine conteined in them shoulde more perteine vnto them then vnto others but ether because he woulde lifte vpp their heade aboue the reste or for some other particuler circumstance .. And in Maister Caluines iudgement they were both written rather for instruction off other in the church then for Timothe and Titus For there beinge great resistance made vnto those younge men off diuers in the churches off Ephesus and Crete the Apostle to supporte them againste their aduersaries and to gird them with more authoritie so intituled their epistles that they mighte knowe that those thinges they did ād tawght they nether did nor taught of them selues but by his cōmaundement As therfore all thinges conteined in thes Epistles were to be knowen off Timothe and Titus so were they all to be knowen off euery one in those churches And as there are thinges in them the exercise wheroff concerned Timothe and Titus onely so there are other the exercise wheroff did at no hand apperteine to any off them As for the circumstance off the place which he saieth is against my replie he sheweth none But there is a manifest circūstance againste him which the Apostle by and by addeth kepe they selfe pure and communicate not vvith the faultes off other as iff he should saie althowghe thow canste not hinder the ordeining off insufficient officers of the church yet kepe they selfe pure Moreouer if this writing vnto Timothe alone that he should laie handes off none rashely shoulde giue him alone authoritie to ordeine and electe pastors then yt should followe that not onely the church and elders off Ephesus but the Bishopes which were there together with Timothe should haue bene shutte owte which iff the D. dare not saie beside that this holde is gone he muste recante the sole election and ordination by Timothe Yow maie easely put me owte off dowbte off that which I neuer dowbted and which I haue somewhere confessed that by the ceremonie off layinge on off handes the whole forme off orderinge is vnderstanded But off that yow shoulde proue that in that place off Saint Paule it is so vnderstanded althowghe yt is not that which can hurte our cause yow bringe not so much as maie induce vnto any the leaste suspiciō Your reason that he did electe because he did appoincte is to symple For albeit to chuse be to appointe yet euery one which appointeth chooseth not no more then yt followeth that because euery man liueth
is a popishe shifte as I haue shewed sufficiently before confuted yt hath no grounde in the vvorde testimony wherout he woulde pull yt For by a fygure off metonymy he noteth the peoples voice because by giuinge it they gaue also testimony what they the wght off him Where it is to be noted that the D. giueth no more to the churche off God then S. Paul giueth to straungers froÌ„ yt of whom he willeth that the bishop shall haue a good report There followeth the open violence doone vnto August wordes Where first let the reader obserue againe that this wresting of the example of Eradius against the election of the church was taken from Pighius as appeareth manifestly But for answer vnto Pigbius and the D. it muste be vnderstanded how for that election of Eradius to be bishop after August decease there were assembled two bishopes besides August 6. Elders beside Eradius with the reste of the clergie and people For what purpose all thes if it were in Augustines powre to choose onelie After yt appeareth that Augustine did call the people to haue there consente because he had experience off trouble and discontentement of the people off Millen for that Seuerus the bishop there did appoincte his successor before his death withowte speakinge any thinge theroff vnto them vvhich could not be auoided off Augustine if he mente to chuse any againste the will off the people For yt had bene better for him to haue appoincted one as Seuer us did vvithowte communicatinge the matter vnto them then in communicatinge yt to take one againste their willes Againe where the D. vppon those wordes I vvill haue Eradius my successor woulde haue that Augustine onely had the election off him he is coÌ„futed by and by after with his owne wordes I saie that I vvill haue him because I knovve that yovv vvill haue him And after he vvilleth that the publike notories shoulde as vvell note their voices as his vvill in this matter that saith he your consentes fall not to the grounde or become voide Wherunto also pertaine the subscriptions of them which folowed Which althowgh the D. saith are referred onely vnto the peticion off Augustine to be discharged off the hearinge off ciuill matters yet the wordes sounde otherwise For when he required their subscription to those Actes yt is cleare that he muste be vnderstanded to haue spoken off both those matters otherwise he woulde haue required subscription to that Acte and not vnto the Actes And where in the ende for an other reason he addeth Augustine was appointed bishope when Valerius bishope off Hippo was a liue I see not howe it maketh for him one word For if he think that Valerius off his Authoritie did it he is vtterly deceiued seing Possidonius writeth that Valerius spake vnto the people to prouide and to ordeine an elder off the cytie and sheweth how he was ordeined by the consente off all the people Which thinge yff it were not more lighter then the none daies off this Epistle off August yet yt mighte appeare by other as where he declareth that Pinianns was ordeined off the people elder off the church againste his will. moe might be alleadged but thes shall suffyse Sauinge that I muste put Maister D. in remembrance howe he merueilously forgetteth him selfe For grauntinge me before that the councell off Carthage wherat Augustine was presente decreed that the election shoulde be made by the commen consente off the people clerkes and bishopes in the same prouince he must heere needes confesse that ether Augustine did there ioine together in election with the church and the clergie as they terme them or that he brake the order off the Councell which could not be vvithowt his fault although the election off the church had bene as the D. esteemeth yt but a thing indifferent And the truth is yt appeareth that August had in that election an expresse regard vnto the decree off the councell which caused him beside the eldership off the church and people to send for two other bishops to be assistants Wherupon the reader may see how there is no light off wordes so cleare which Phighius and the Ans misled will not giue thâ—nser to darcken Besides that Ambrose calleth yt a diuine election which is made by the church which he could not onles yt were by the institution off God the whole discourse off the Epistle teacheth that the election off the people is there accounted off as necessary For when the church off Vercella did linger the time in not chusing a bishop vvhen it vvas also infected vvith Heretickes vvhy did not Amb. at least by vvay off Lapse take the election vnto him self but vvriteth vnto them reprehending them that they did not aske for a bishop as other churches were vvont to doo Gregor Nazienz speaking there off diuers elections vvherin still the people bore one part and that withowt controlement speaketh more for that election in that one place then the D. hath hitherto or in the residue of his treatise is able to shew And where he might seeme to haue somewhat nipped at it in shewing how at certeine elections some off the people were contentious he healeth that euen in the next sentence to this saying that at that time it was to be feared lest he ovvght to iudge the popular regiment better ordered then their ovvne and after maketh mention off the corruption off those which were fellow elders vvith his father but obserue I pray yow againe the D. faith fulnes which expouÌ„deth the worde churches the clergy Where learned he thus to expound Let it be that as in the scripture sometime so in the auncient fathers the eldership off a church is called by the name off church where can he euer shew that the eldership or as he termeth it the clergy of one onely church vvherof Greg. speaketh is called by the name off churches In steed therfore that he should haue translated both the richer and they off great authority in the church vvere cleane from that euill he hath translated the churches that is to say the clergy c taking the nominatiue plurall for the genitiue syngular Which although in the latin toung if one take not heed vnto the sense may deceiue yet vvhen the D. had the Greeke which hath off the church before him as it seemeth by cyting the greeke in the same place by and by after ether he vnderstood it not or willingly peruerted the meaning So I leaue to the reader whether I haue reasoned to the pourpose or no and whether yow besides wordes haue any thing at all As in certeine other places so in this in steed off that I should haue taken the quotacion which came after I taking the quotacion in my paper booke which went before was deceiued and for the 6. and 7. of Socrates set downe the 6. and 7. of Eusebius This verely is the error which the D. maketh so
S. Iohn preached immediatly before he baptized is vnworthy off answer as if the order off the storie could not shew that withowt the word immediatly or as if nothing might be saide doon immediatly after an other but where some such precise note off time is added That he saith he knoweth no pourpose why our Sauiour Christ should be at Iohns sermon yt was answered that he vouchesafing to be baptized off Iohn yt was probable that he vvould honour the ministery off the word with his presence which he passeth with silēce beside that he must learne that our Sauiour Christ growing in wisdome and stature vntill the time off his baptisme when he receiued the holy ghost withowt measure no more neglected the ordinary meanes off God vvhereby he receiued his increase off wisdome then the ordinary nourishement whereby he grew in stature That the disciples were preached vnto of the vse of the supper before they receiued the reason followeth in the 6. diuis That S. Luke noted the sommes rather then laied owt at large the sermons of our Sa. Christ howsoeuer the D. will not acknowledge yt is more manifest then his impudent deniall owght to cawse me enter into profe off To the next reason of continuall practise of preaching immediatly before the Sacramentes proued owt of S. Luke his answer is insufficiēt For beside that it is vntrue that the assemblie infantes excepted are sufficiently instructed off the vse off baptisme his answer off preaching immediatly before the sacramentes to those that are not conuerted hath no place considering that S. Paul preached to those in the administration off the supper which were already conuerted Where I confesse that nether the Adm. nor I hould for a thing simply necessary that the word be preached immediatly before the Sacramentes he saith that there is then no cause to contend yt being agreed off the conuenience Yf it be very conuenient that preaching be immediatly before the Sacramentes then the coustome off reading onely is not sufficient which is that he found fault with in the Adm. for at the least a great conuenience is wanting to that sufficiency And seing the scripture commendeth thinges conuenient as it forbiddeth the contrary the order of preaching immediatly before the Sacramentes euen in this respect owght onles yt be rare and vppon great causes to be obserued Where I say the life off the sacramentes dependeth vppon the the vvord preached the D. saith yt is a fowle error no meruaile according to his black diuinitie But how cometh it so fowle because the life off the Sacramentes dependeth vpon the promisses in the word I graunt and nether vpon preaching nor reading that is vtterly false for when baptisme belongeth not vnto infantes but in that their ancesters in the conuenant and those no otherwise in conuenant then by faith which cometh are preaching yt followeth that the parentes hauing no Fruict off the couenant but by preaching by can much les haue profit off the Sacrament without it I graunt their infantes saluation dependeth vpon the election off God yet that they may be partakers off baptisme dependeth on that the promise preached was receiued at least in the churches iudgement off those off whom they are descended Thus the doctrine fowle in the D. iudgment is beautifull in the scriptures Let vs now se whether yt be so vncourteously handled off others as off the D. Caluin shewing that the Sacrament standeth of the word and element saith vve muste vnderstande the vvorde notvvispered vvithovvt vnderstanding and faith vvith a noise onely as if yt had povver like an enchantement to consecrate the Element but vvhich being preached causeth vs to vnderstand vvhat the visible signe meaneth Likewise vppon these wordes Preaching the baptisme of repentance the vvord sacrament doth not signifye a vaine Ceremonie vvhich standeth of shevves vvithovvt doctrine but the vvord off God is alvvaies annexed vvhich gyueth life vnto the outvvard Ceremonie I vnderstand the vvorde not mumbled betvvene the teeth but pronounced vvith a cleare voice fit to edifie the faith ▪ for yt is not saide simply that Iohn baptized to repentance as though the grace of God vvere shut vp in the visible signe but that he preached the vertue of baptisme that the figne might haue effect by the vvord he preached Here is not onely the same iudgmēt but almost the same wordes that the life of the sacramēt dependeth vpon the word and that preached In his dispute after as though I had saide that the sacramentes are dead vnles the word be preached im̄ediatly before he declareth that be is gyuen to speake all vntruth be yt neuer so apparant For it is directly against that I set downe in the same place he rayseth this false accusation where I confessing that there is no precise necessitie off preaching immediatly before the sacramentes affirme notwitstanding that preaching owght to goe before them In that he bringeth owt off Zuing. against the Anabaptistes the first place is altogether against him For although the disciples baptized withowt teaching yet it being saide there that our Sauiour Christ tavvght yt is euident that preaching went before the sacrament The other place is to fill vp roume For we say not that young infantes must be tawght before they be baptized but that doctrine must goe before the sacramētes in the church of God as the publishing off the graunt before the seale Where he would conclude that I vnderstood the necessitie off preaching before the administration not in respect off the rest off the church present but off the infantes for that the life off the sacrament perteineth not vnto others then those which be pareakers Who hath so blinded hym that he vnderstandeth not that baptisme receiued off the standers by in their infancie taketh effect daily by preaching after they be off age and that withowt preaching in those vvhich be off discretion yt remaineth vnfruitfull and seruing onely to condemnation Yea euen the baptisme off the infantes not onely perteineth vnto the parentes for whose comfort yt is also ministred but dependeth as I haue shewed off this that they off whom they come haue through preaching off the word before that baptisme gyuen their names vnto Christ Thus hauing obteined that yt is very conuenient that there should be preaching immediatly before the administration off Sacramentes I returne back with one band more to hold the Pastor from rouing beyond the tether off his church Other thinges impertinent vnto this place shal be answered in their places His triumphes vpon that I confesse that the Pastor may for some busines vvith leaue off his church vvith an able deputy be absent notwithstanding he would so faine mount them on highe by his questions are beggerly and doo scarce crepe vpon the ground For where he asketh first whether he may not aswell be away for publicke affaires as for priuate he may if they be of that sort which agree with his vocation But what
diligent reading where not daring as it semeth say planting he hath chaunged it wheroff the question was for tilling belike becawse he remembred he had saied before that yt is proper vnto the Apostles to plant Where againe his cawse receiueth an other wound For if planting be by preaching and not by reading then in this respect preaching is more effectuall then bare reading Then that he saith killing and watering may be applied to reading he should to mainteine his cause haue saied as well or as muche To that off the people perishing vvithovvt prophecy vvhich is not bare reading but expounding and applying off scriptures he answereth that the people muste needes decay in holines and knowledge where there be no preachers but why doth he say decay and not perish as Salomon speaketh where his cause falleth flat to the ground For if the people perish where be no preachers althowgh there be readers and cōtrariwise preaching withowt bare reading saueth engendreth faith and nourisheth yt yt is manifest that the word redd is not so effectuall as preached and that by bare reading ordinarily there is no saluation and therfore also no faith both which he before denied And if the people perish withowt preaching which haue already bene lightened by it how muche more except the Lord worcke extraordinarily must they perish that neuer had preaching Where he saith both preaching and bare reading be necessary in the church yf he meane publikely as yt is true in preaching so yt is vntrue in simple reading For although yt be very conuenient which is vsed in some churches where before preaching time the church assembled hath the scriptures redd in suche order that the whole Canon theroff is oftentimes in one yeare run thorough yet a nombre of churches which haue no such order of simple reading can not be in this point charged with breach of Gods commaundement which they might be if simple reading were necessary Considering especially that some off them beside their set sermons expounding euery day paraphrastically two chapters with the principall pointes theroff taken and applied vnto their auditors gaine that which the D. owt of Bucer presupposeth to come onely by simple reading that the scripture therby is made familiar vnto the people Where he saith they be moste profitable the wine off this error so fumeth into his head that it hath taken away the vse off his toung for two thinges to one and the same end can not but very vnproperly be saied most profitable For if preaching be moste profitable to worcke faith by then is not reading if reading thē is not preaching it is true that mē sometime speake so when the questiō is not of comparison betweene those thinges they speake off but otherwise it is altogether straunge Where he saith preaching is more apt for the ignorant and vnlearned and that he denieth not this the vntruth theroff is apparant For if preaching be more profitable to the vnlearned then reading and de at least as profitable to the learned then yt is false that he hath set downe with so great assurance that reading is as effectuall as preaching seing the effect we speake off is the profit off the hearers Yet as a man strawght off his wittes striketh him selfe he ouerthroweth this also in an other place for in asking why Iosia caused the lawe to be redd ▪ except it had as great force to perswade redd as preached he signifieth the contrary off that heere affirmed Considering that the greatest part was off the commen people and that grosse as those which newly came owt off filthy idolatry Further if preaching were as meet for the learned and meeter for the rude then his reason there which imagineth that Iosia would not otherwise haue caused the law to be redd onles there had bene as great fruict in reading as preaching falleth flat Considering that the D. confesseth that preaching is more effectuall to the people and I thincke dare not deny but it is as effectuall to the learned Therfore the reason why Iosias cawsed the law to be redd was not becawse reading was as effectuall as preaching but because being both redd and preached yt profiteth more then when yt is symply redd Where he saieth marry haue bene called by bare reading he saith yt againe and againe but withowt all proofe For where altogether owt off place his pourpose being to proue that reading edifieth more then preaching he faith God vsed reading at a meanes to call Augustine yt is vaine seing the question is whether he vsed that onely meanes for yt appeareth that August had greatly profited in godlines before that time wherin he heard the miraculous voice which sent him to reading Beside that the voice he telleth off going before his reading will not suffer that that reading onely may chalenge the whole meanes off conuersion Likewise that he affirmeth owt M. For off many browght to light off the gospell by reading onely he maketh not nor as I am perswaded could make yt appeare Although yt be confessed that that may be doone by the Lordes extraordinary worcking which feedeth sometime with quarles in the wildernes Yet yt is hard to shewe any time wherein there haue bene professors off the gospell and God hath not raised vp some ministers which haue ether openly or secretly as the time required preached the word considering that euen in those desolations of the church the Lord by his tvvo vvitnesses promiseth that the church shal not be destitute off true ministers Where confessing the vvord preached and red all one I shew notwithstanding that as the fyre stirred gyueth more heat so the vvord as yt vvere blovven by preaching flameth more in the hearers then vvhen it is redd he answereth that this is to ione with the Papistes in condemning the scriptures of obscurity but reason he can shew none and it is all one as if one should be charged to haue saide that the Sonne is darck for that he affirmeth yt lighter at noone daies then at the Sonne rising Then he muste vnderstand that we place not this difference of lightsomnes in the worde which is alwaies in it selfe most lightsom red and preached but partly in the ordinance off God before noted making that the speciall meanes partly in the darcknes of our vnderstanding which withowt the aide off preaching can not come to sufficient knowledge off yt Lastely he must learne that althowghe all thinges necessary to saluacion might by reading onely be vnderstanded yet yt followeth not that a man may by reading onely be saued For yt is one thinge to haue the scripture in his head another to haue it in his heart one thinge to vnderstād yt another to beleue yt which beleef being onely able to saue ys ordinarily onely ingendred by preaching Wherby also we haue a peece off remedy against another poison spit forthe in this diuis that to those which vnderstand the scriptures they are as whot and lightsome red as preached
cōmen wealthes and in the superiority which he hath ouer kinges and iudges he hath no superior but immediate autoritie vvith his father Therfore the mouldinge vpp off the two estates and gouernementes together is to lay the foundations off many errors Last of all admitting this distinctiō how cometh yt to passe that this poincte of his that there are manie archbishops in the owtward regiment off the church being that which is denied is lefte vvithowt any assistance off reason out off the scripture Here remaineth onely to proue the title Head off the church to belonge onely to our Sauiour Christe I muste therfore desyre the reader to tourne vnto the 6. diuis pag. 181. where the D. confesseth as much as I that Christe is onely the head of the church If Christe be onely head then that I set downe that the cyuill magistrate is head of the cōmonwealthe and not of the church standeth But if the magistrate be head off the church then Christe is not onelie Howbeit hauing for feare off the owtcry off all made a litle curtesie vnto the truthe he forth with lifteth vp his heele againste it and will haue the ciuill magistrate head also off the church wherupon muste followe infynite absurdities firste the doctrine off the Apostle is by this means cleane ouerthrowē which sheweth that this tytle Head of the church was gyuen to our Sau. Christe to lifte him aboue all powres rules and domyons ether in heauen or earth Where if this title belonge also vnto the cyuill magistrate then yt ys manifeste that there is a powre in earth vvherunto our Sauiour Christe is not in this pointe superior And by the same reason that he maie gyue the cyuill magistrate this title he maye gyue him also that he ys the fyrste begotten of all creatures the fyrste begotten off the dead yea the redemer of his people which he gouerneth For these all are a like gyuen vnto hym as dignities wherby he ys lyfted vp aboue all creatures And beside that the whole argumente off the Apostle in both places lead to shewe that this tytle Head off the church can not be saide of any creature yt ys confirmed by the demonstratiue article wherwith the Hebrewes esyecially whom Saint Paul folowed vse to tie that vvhich is verified off one vnto hym selfe alone For he saith he is the head as if he should saie he and none other is the heade of the church Againe if the church be the bodie of Christe ād of the cyuill magistrate yt shall haue two heades which being monsterous is to the great dishonor off Christe and his church So also shoulde come to passe that the church hauing the magistrate for head is accōplished and made a perfecte man without Christe so that the knittinge of our Sauiour Christe should not be an accomplishmente off that which lacked but an addition off that which is to much And if the churche be planted in a popular estate then forsomuch as all gouerne in commen and all haue autoritie all shall be head there and no body at all vvhich is another monster Now yf vve consider the cawses why our Sauiour Christe ys called the head of his church which are that as the head is the higheste parte in a man aboue which ther is none allwaies ioyned with the body so he ys the cheifest and highest in his churche inseperably knitte with yt and that as the head gyueth sense and mouing vnto all the bodye so he quickneth and to gether with vnderstanding of heauenly thinges gyueth strenght to walke therin I say when thes be the causes yt ys manifeste thes thinges nor no one off them ether agreing or hauing any possibilitie to agree with any creature in heauen or earth ether towards the whole church or towardes any partycular assembly that the name off the Head of the church can not be without great violence gyuen vnto any symple creature And yff yt be saied that the cyuill magistrate is a subordinate and mynisteriall head off the church as the magistrate beinge head off the commen wealthe hath other which maye be called vnder heades beneath hym he muste vnderstand that those heades are appoincted becawse the cheife magistrate can not be presente with the whole body off his people nor in his owne person performe the office of a head vnto them all But forasmuche as Christe is neuer seuered from his body nor from any parte off yt and is able and doth performe that wherfore he is called head vnto all his churche yt owghte not to seme strange that there may be a subordinate head in the commen wealth where there can be none in the church And as yt hath certaine grounde in the scripture that this tytle of head of the church is to highe to be gyuen vnto any man so hath yt bene confirmed from time to tyme by writers both olde and newe which haue had the honor off Christe in any conuenient estimation Let vs therfore see vvhether this ialousie ouer the title of head of the church not onely in respecte off the whole but in respecte also off a particular congregation haue their approbation Cyprian saith there is but one head off the church The bishop off Salsburie affirmeth the same Augustine proueth that the minister which baptiseth can not be the head off him which is baptized because Christe is the head off the vvhole church And in another place that Paule coulde not be head of the churches which he planted becawse Christe is head off the vvhole body which reason should be nothing worthe if ether Saint Paule or any other minister mighte be a ministery all head off the church vnder Christe And if the name of ministeriall head off the churches which Paule planted can not be gyuen vnto him which was a gouernour nexte and immediatly vnder Christe in that same kinde off gouernment in the which our Sauiour Christe is head that is to say spirituall no not then when there was no Christian magistrate to make chalenge vnto that title and to bring yt into dowbte whether yt belonged vnto S. Paule or to him yt can not be that the magistrate may take vnto him that title whose gouernmente doth not approche so nere vnto our Sauiour Christes as he is head off the church And as they haue taken awaye this tytle from the ministers ouer their flockes so haue they from Emperours and princes in regard off their subiectes Ambrose saith yt ys the greatest honor the Emperour can haue to be called sonne off the church and in the same Epistle a good Emperour is vvithin not aboue the chutch Caluin teacheth that there is but one onely head of the church vvhich is Christe that the name doth onely agree to him that in that name he can haue no substitute vpon earth Where yf yt be saide that he mente that off the Pope ouer all churches althowgh the disputation be directed againste the Pope yet his reasons are
gathering and keping off his church Thes groundes laied yt is to be considered whether the exercise off the sworde by the magistrate come from our Sauiour Christe preseruer off man kinde wherin he is coequal to his father or as mediatour off his church wherin he is inferiour Where forasmuche as our Sauiour Christes kingdome was not of this world and that against horrible disorders in his church punishable by the sworde he did not one extraordinary whipping excepted draw yt and considering that this lawfull ordinance off God is not onely in the churche but withowt yt is manifest that our Sauiour Christ in respecte off his mediatourship towardes vs exerciseth not the cyuill sword For in that he said his kingdome was not off this worlde he made an opposition not vnto the wicked off the worlde as other some times but vnto Cesars autoritie which was the ordinance of God wherto he was falsly charged to haue made claime And in that he drewe not the sword againste opē disorders it argueth that that was without the compas off his vocation otherwise he would neuer haue suffred the glory of God to haue bene troden vnder feet And in that the autoritie off the sword in heathen princes althowgh not a like vsed is the same ordinance off God that in Christian th one proceding off God immediatly and not from our Gauiour Christ as mediatour thother doth likewise But why should wee wrastle further in this poincte with Andrue seing the D. which buildeth of his autoritie in cōfessing that the magistrate is ordeined off God immediatly standeth with vs that he ys not ordeined off our Sauiour Christe in respect that he is mediatour betwene God and vs heruppon followeth that the office off the cyuill magistrate is properly one off those means which serueth the Lordes prouidence in the preseruation off man kind Now yf the cyuill magistrate should be the head off the church he must be an vnder and subordinat head off Christ Consydering that the lorde hath committed the gouernement off the church vnto our Sauiour Christe and that otherwise there should be two heades off yt wheroff one were not vnder another which is absurd But he is not an vnder and subordinate head off Christe consydering that his autoritie cometh from God symply and immediatly euen as our Sauiour Christes and therfore not the head off the church To this disputation perteineth that which the D. els where in synuateth off the Magistrate comprised albeit not expressed in the 12. 1. Corinth vnder the word gouernementes but in an other treatise more plainly in the fyrst place to hale in the Archbishop in the second to thrust out the elders which notwithstanding is easely refuted by the same place for if the cyuill magistrate shoulde be comprehēded vnder that worde off gouernement and be one off the officers off the church there mencioned yt should followe that he should be an vnder officer not onely to the Apostles but also to Prophetes and Doctors For S. Paule putteth thes as the principallest mynisteries in the church as the degres off first second and third declare But I thincke the D. will not make him vnder officer to all thes therfore he is not cōprehended vnder that diuision but is of an other sorte off officers Secondly yt should follow that Christian magistrates were in that tyme yt being graunted that the offices there reckned were already in the church But the D. saith that there were then no Christian magistrates yt foloweth therfore by his owne wordes that the magistrate could nether be expressed nor conteined in those wordes yf yt be said that althowgh the D. say there were none yet I and the trwth yt selfe saie otherwise I answer that all the gyftes and offices there reckned were not onely then but were then most plentifull Considering therfore that the Christian magistrate was then a gifte more rare then at other times after yt can not be that he is comprehended vnder that wordes Vppon all which yt falleth that the Magistrate is head off the church as Andreas saith in respect off that he exerciseth the sword Likewise it goeth to ground which the D. putteth that by the same reason the magistrate is head off the commē wealth next vnder God he may be also head off the church Which is a grosse peticion of the principle being nothing but the contrarie off that I set downe That owte off Chrysostome that certeine weomen were head off the churche off Philippos will not serue considering that he speaketh not off any cheifdome in powre or autoritie but off excellencie in godlines and zeale And the greek word he vseth signifying also a summe nedeth not to be taken in signification off head but that Chrysost meaninge was that in those weomē there was as it were a summe off the church in whose godly vertues a man might beholde the estate off the whole Nay yt can not but with great violence there signifie a head for then he should haue said they were heades of the church and not head And if it shoulde yet yt muste be vnderstanded that head there is to say the cheife off the weomen off that church which is nothing to purpose for I am sure yt was not Chrysost minde to preferre them to the Bishopes c. The cauill also that the magistrate being but a member off the church is not therby barred from being head is vnworthy answer seing yt is manifest off what members I spake and the Bishop off Salsbury speaketh euen in the same wordes Yf yt be said that the magistrates honour ys touched here I answer that then the Angels them selues are dishonoured which hauing gouernement of kingdomes and nations add also of the churches which they serue haue not nor owght as I haue shewed to haue the title off head off the churche Nay those which goe abowte to gratifie Princes with the spoile off our Sauiour Christe are found dishonorers of them as those which leaue thē no place in the church of Christe for if the magistrate be head of the church of Christe which is within his domyniō thē he is none of yt For all that church maketh the bodie of Christe and euery one of the church fulfilleth the place of one member of the body So that he that is not of the body can haue no place in the church yf yt be further said that he hath iniury considering that he bringeth such singular comforte and profit vnto the church establishing the purenes off religion ouerthrowing the corruptions repressing sinne crowning vertue beside the weight of glory which attendeth for good Princes in the life to come and that they are honoured with most honorable names which owght more then contente the moste excellent seruantes off God which are but symple creatures yt muste be also considered that as the godly magistrate being head of the common wealth bringeth singular commoditie vnto the church so doo the godly pastors which be the church
seruant restreining their seruice off ech off them vnto the residue off their fellowes Againe the circumstance in S. Math. and Marck that the other ten disdained at the tvvo brethren and which S. Luke expresseth that the contention vvas amongest the 12. vvhich off them might seeme to be greatest do manifestly ouerthrow that saying For if they had not desired to be aboue the residue off their fellowes there had bene no cawse off disdaigne And the strife was not what gouernment they should vse ouer the people but which amongest them selues should be greatest Wherupon onles we will say that our Saui. Christ laied his plaister beside the sore and spake from the pourpose off that the cawse required yt must be confessed that this domynion forbidden is in respect off one minister ouer an other Whereby him that sitteth at the table he would haue the people vnderstanded he is grosly ouerseen for so by the testimony off our S. Christ the people should be greater then he him self seing he affirmeth that he vvhich sitteth is greater then he vvhich vvaiteth For noting the dignitie off a minister by that vsually annexed vnto maisters to sit at the table while their seruaÌ„tes wait he teacheth that forsomuch as he their maister to whom it apperteined to sit and be waited vpon was vnto them rather as a seruant waiting then a maister sitting at the table much more they being fellowes should serue one an other Where yow charge me for not truly translating the greeke word I appele to the maisters off that toung whether I haue followed the naturall etimolâ—gie Where yow ad that it signifieth the cheif ruler or guide in euery busines I acknowledge yow for no Lexicon and being in controuersie it owght to haue bene proued Stephen doth affirme that they vvhich translate it a prince haue no ground that he can tell off What cheifty S. Peter had amongest theresidue off the Apostles shal be considered in a more fit place it shall be sufficient here to haue noted that the Ans exposition off the word first is the same with Hardinges and my exposition which he here confuteth alone with the bishops which he confirmeth by good argumentes where he denieth that S. Peter was Prince of the Apostles or Lord ouer them or had power or dominion ouer them Then it ouerthroweth Musculus For where he saith that Peter vvas found in many places to haue bene cheif amongest the rest the D. by this exposition maketh him cheif symply in all places Thus it may appeare that yowr cawse findeth small harting at Musc hand Yow say my exposition is contrary to the truth and iudgement off the learned but yow shew onely that it agreeth not with certein interpreters iudgement that the truth is otherwise yow shew not If yow had shewed the fyrst that it is contrary to the truth the second had bene needles I propounded that doubtfully and although that significatioÌ„ of the preposition hath good warrant owt of the vse off that toung yet I will not stand at the armes and with so learned interpreters for it Howbeit when I gyue place yet S. Luke may not gyue back who vsing the simple verbes withowt the preposition maketh manifest that there is no peruersenes or deformitie off gouernment noted for if he shoulde meane to set forth a peruersenes or deformitie off gouernement and hauing so many wordes to doo it with yet did not I can not see how he should haue bene voide off some fault Where yow say he must be expounded by thother Euangelistes that can by no meanes be admitted For it commeth often to passe in the greek toung that compound verbes are put for simples but that simples haue a compound signification the vse off that toung will not suffer For the vse off the word in the Actes and S. Peter beside that it is not straunge for one word in scripture to be taken diuersly that place maketh nothing to proue this signification For what vvord soeuer S. Luke had vsed in the Actes yet forsomuch as that action came from those vncleane spirites it must needes be disordered Therfore the peruersenes off it doth not appeare in the word but in the subiect from whence it came And if a man would make that word to signifie a deformitie becawse that rule was beyond measure by the same reason the wordes Prince Rule Power names off lawfull autoritie should be condemned For that a scribed vnto Deuills they are allwaies tyrannicall And Beza also here alledged in that place saith the vvord noteth not any dominioÌ„ there but onely that they gat the vpper hand of those exorcistes which when it may be taken aswell in good part as in the euill the Answ can by no meanes help hym selfe therewith For that off Saint Peter where he saith it is manifest that it signifieth violent dominion I graunt that that rule which it signifieth is violent in a Pastor but that which is violeÌ„t in him ouer his flock is moderate and lawful in a Prince ouer his subiectes and so S. Peter kept the same distinction off gouernement off the ciuill Magistrate and the Minister which he had learned off our Sauiour Christ For if he ment by that word a dominion simply tirannicall he vvould haue opposed yt vnto a moderate dominion not as he did vnto being an example off the flock As if he should say yow must not beare dominion ouer yowr flockes as Princes vvhich vvith diuers notes of their magnificence get autoritie ouer their subiectes but yow not hauing thes meanes to get reuerence and autoritie amongest yowr flockes must so much the more enforce yowr selues to all commendable example off life Wherunto agreeth that which Saint Paul vvriteth vnto Timothe whom he exhorteth to kepe vp his autoritie in the churche and deliuer him self from contempt vvhich his yowth vvas subiect vnto by being a patron off good vvorckes vnto his churche And Beza in that place saying by those vvordes care and no kingdome ys commytted vnto Mynisters and that by that place yt appeareth that Pastors may not beare rule ouer their flockes after the manner off kinges doth sufficiently declare that the word doth not signifie simply a tirannicall dominion but one such as agreing vnto kinges is notwithstanding vnsitting for Pastors For he saith kingdome and Kinges not Tyrannie nor Tyrantes which he owght to haue saied if he would haue confirmed yowr interpretation Beside that Stephen putteth both the simple and compound to signifie one thing that is a simple dominion withowt any suche taile off tyrannie as is here imagined Yow may deny if yow will that the snow is white By all thes places must needes be vnderstanded those which Musc off whom yow speake doth interprete but yowr self had sayed before that he expoundeth those three off S. Math. Marck and Luke therfore although yow added not three yet that muste needes be vnderstanded And in this yowr shift yow breake yowr
but in respecte off the persons gouerned nor the persons them selues but in respecte of their contentions and alteracion of disposition Then it shall appeare after that the tymes off persequution suche as those were the fittest for that office yf that had bene conuenient This Archbishop saied to be the officer off order confoundeth all order and changeth all an Euangelist into a bishop a bishop into an Archbishop an archbishop into an Apostel an Apostle into an Archbishop which folies are before confuted If S. Iohn were Archbishop or did an Archbishops office in those places where he abode then the other Apostle in their circuites did the like and were likewise Archbishops ouer them and the bishop there so it foloweth that ether there were no Archbishops in the Apostles tymes or if there were any they had nothing to doo their offices being not yet fallen but in the Apostles handes And if the Ans will needes haue S. Iohns antoritie the pose to measure owt the Archbishops autoritie yt muste folow that forasmuch as he had the care and ouersighte of all churches in the world the Archbishop must haue the same For the next section lett the reader iudge whether I haue delte syncerely and whether in saying Anaclete and Anicete are but suspected although he ad not without iuste cawse he leaue to them some credit For the next also of the yeare wherin the Nicene councell was houlden being not to pourpose althowghe I could mainteine the account I folowed I will leaue the Ans in his earnest disputation whose practise is to handle trifles earnestly and earnest thinges triflingly The leape is as great as I haue saied and consequently as dauÌ„gerous to tharchbishops neck For yt falleth still forth that for the space off 300. yeares from the time off the Apostles there is no syllable in any one approued autor off any ether archbishop or Metrapolitane for as for the Canons attributed vnto the Apostles those onely excepted vvhich are to be found in their writinges being as is agreed amongest men off any iudgement gathered off diuers councels in sondry times that which is here alledged off the Ans was by all likelihood drawen owt off the councell off Antioch hauing almost the very vvordes theroff sauing as yt cometh to pas yt being somewhat later is somewhat vvorse The councell of Antioch a good while after that of Nice can not make the fall off tharchbishop les daungerous As for the fable off Archbishops in Englande in Euleutherius tyme yt is before confuted So that if a Metrapolitane were all one with an Archbishop yet he is destitute of the testimonie off the purest and best tymes Where the D. thincketh those wordes off the councell off Nice Let the auncient custome be kepte will saue his necke and his body from harme he is deceiued For this word auncient being in nomber off those which haue relation and depend of others signifieth a greater or smaller time according to the thinges vvherwith it is coÌ„pared or hath relatioÌ„ vnto so that that maie be and often is called auncient which is but of very fewe yeares and vvhich other sometime can not be so called withowt a greater nomber The bishops therfore comparing that decree with other made at that tyme and not before called that an auncient custome And yt can be no straunge kinde off speach for the ministers being assembled together to speake off a matter continued a score off prouinciall Synodes and houlden in the space off 10. yeares after this sorte In suche and such thinges vvee vvill kepe our old coustome And that yt could not be long before the councell off Nice beside no testimony to the contrary â–ª Aeneas Syâ—uius gyueth this for vs before the Nicene councell euery bishop lyued vnto him self and smale regard vvas had to the bishops of home But admit yt had bene so before the councell off Nice 20. yea 30. yeares yet by yowr owne counte there is no mention off him all that time which I haue affirmed which is 300. yeares after our Sauiour Christes ascension Now therfore that the auncientie off the Metrapolitane appeareth not by this councell to be other then I alledged Let vs see what credite yt owghte to haue to proue that this decree off theirs was good For therunto the D. regardeth when he saith the notable and famous councell off Nice muste be off all wise and learned men nexte vnto the scriptures reuerenced c. It is sure that hauing regard to the decision off the different touching the perfect vnitie off substance of our Sauiour Christ with God the Father it giuing sentence vppon the vnfallible word off God is worthy to be reuerenced But if the D. will haue their soundnes in that poincte autorise the rest and that our reuerence to yt should close vp our mouthes from demaunding from whence the other canons come what ground they haue yt is that which we can by no meanes consent vnto And that yt may appeare how iustly we call this canon off the councell vnto the towch stone of the word off God let it be considered what is ordeined off them in the 12. and 23. Canons after Ruffin where they prescribe seuen yeares vnto one fallen in to Idolatrie all which tyme althowgh very repentante they forbid him the supper off the lord where also yt kepeth owte one which coming from the warr retourneth thether againe by the space off thirtene years c. which seueritie to let pas the rest as yt is againste the rule of S. Paule so yt could not but put a halter in the deuiles hand to snare a noÌ„ber of soules with all what corruption there was further at that time ether by ignorance or ambition may appeare by that if one Paphenutius had not beene they had all concluded against the honorable societie off bishops elders and Deacons vvith their lawfull wiues Yf the Ans say thes errors were but the errors off those bishops onely but the canon off a Metrapolitane hath beside their allowance the approbation off the former times also so that althowgh their single autoritie be not hable to waie yt downe yet helped vvith the auncient coustome before yt will carie yt away I answer that in the same councell appeareth that to those chosen vnto the ministrie vnmaried yt was not lawfull to take any wife afterwardes onely being maried before entrance into the mynistrie it was lawfull for them to vse the benefite of that mariadge And Paphenutius sheweth that not onely this was before that councell but was an auncieÌ„t tradition of the churche vvhich both him selfe and the reste off the councell rested in what soeuer credit therfore in any respecte cometh vnto the Metrapolitane by this sixt canoÌ„ the same in euery point cometh to this so great a corruptioÌ„ that nether single ministers might mary nor those which entred maried might after death of their wiues mary againe Yf the fame of the councell can not wipe
thapostels times at Philippos where Paul expresly saluteth diuers bishops at Ephesus froÌ„ wheÌ„ce certein bishops sent for came to MiletuÌ„ Likewise in the church off Thessalonica there were diuers Presidentes the same by the D. diuinitie that Bishop or Archbishop And as it was in those churches so yt ys like to haue bene in other off greate resorte to heare the worde off God and habilitie to enterteine a more plentifull ministery Nether let him as he is wont oppose vnto the manifest wordes off the scripture Ambroses exposition vpon the place to the Philippians nor that which goeth vnder Ieromes name vpon the same For as for Ambrose a childe may see how violently he forceth the texte and what inconuenience he runnethe into to make yt agree with the coustome off his times wherin this order was for the moste parte worne owt And as for the other he is a couÌ„terfaicte and so marked not onely because he contrarieth that which Ierome did plainly teache but also for that the forme off writing is farre off another complexion Yt can not be denied but that this order of God was strickeÌ„ at by diuers canons off Councels and that as this was the firste attempte which the deuill gaue to abridge the nomber off Bishops in the churche so yt was more aunciente then that other off robbing the villages and small Cyties off their bishops Vpon what rotten groundes this abuse crepte in cometh afterward to be considered here yt is to be noted that this corruption was not so generall but that often times yt admitted exception And notwithstanding bothe custome and Canons in that behalfe good men vpon occasion made no conscience to ordeine twoo bishops of one citie Euseb maketh mention of Narcissus and Alexander Bishops at ones in one parishe and if yt be true which he reporteth that the same was by reuelation from heauen yt ys a good argumente that this voice was as yt were a repeale off that custome which had bene browght in contrarie to the firste institution off god Yt is writteÌ„ off Augustine that he was made bishop off Hippo bothe by the instante requeste off Valerius then another bishop there and by the consente off the Metra politane Bishop off Carthage And albeit in consideration off the canons made to the contrarie Augustine was lothe to take the charge yet instantly required he accepted yt Augustine him selfe also was off aduise that in those places where was a Donatiste Bishop and a catholike if the Donatiste returned vnto the vnitie of the churche then he should be receiued into the felowship off the bishops office with the catholike bishop Where he putteth onely thes exceptions if the people vvill suffer yt yf becavvse yt is not accoustomed the people vvill beare it Wherby is cleare that notwithstanding it was forbiddeÌ„ by canons yet he thowght yt not vnmeet to haue two bishops in one church if the people would beare it and if he were of this aduise notwithstanding the couÌ„cels to the coÌ„trary how much more would he haue thought it meet if the church had required aÌ„d made sute for it Also it is not to be forgotten that although this corruption off gyuing the name bishop to one in a church from the rest to whom it did off right belong be auncient yet godly men misliked it and by all likelihood broke it of Which Ieromes wordes do apparantly import this coustome vvas in the church off Alexandria from S. Mark vntill Heraclas and Dionysius For onles there were some change then why would he not rather haue saied from S. Mark vntill his time considering that all that time there was continuall succession of church and bishops Therfore belike those godly men seing the mischeif like to ensue of that coustome and vnderstanding that thinges owght to be called to the apostolick institution changed that coustome Furthermore it is diligently to be considered that this order off hauing one onely in euery church to haue the name of Bishop ouerspred not the church soudenly and at a clap but entred by litle and litle so that it is like there were diuers ages past or euer this had a generall passage thorowgh all the churches in the world By all which it may appeare how the Ans is abused in saying it can not be shewed from Christes time that euer there were two bishops in one church Thes thinges being thus laied let vs now come to Cyprians Testimonies Caput 3. VNto the firste diuision I haue answered In the second to proue that Cyprian speakethe off an Archbishop the D. concludeth thus yt is the principall office of the archbishop to prouide that peace and vnitie be kept in the churche c. but the office off him whom Cyprian describeth is to keepe peace in the churche therfore Cyprian speaketh of an archbishop This argumente is caste in the same moulde that those which he hathe vntrwly compared my reason vnto before and yt hathe almost more faultes then wordes But that the simplest maye see his dealing yt is to be vnderstanded that as the pretence off institucion off the Archbishop was to keepe peace and suppresse scismes so the onely pretence off translating the name off bishop from manie in one churche vnto one onely was the same as appeareth by the place off Ierome after discussed To let passe therfore that I haue proued and will after more appeare that there was then nether Archbishop nor Metropolitane and for disputacion sake to imagin Archbishops then yet when bothe the name and office Cyprian speaketh of agree vnto him which gouerneth in euerie churche or to speake as the D. speaketh diocese and the office onely withowte the name agreethe to the Archbishop yt must needes be meeter â—o refer Cypcians wordes to the Bishop then to the Archbishop seing that there be more cordes off reasons to pull them that waies then the other At the leaste yt is cleare that the Argument off the A. is faultie seing yt was not onely the principall office off the Archbishop to prouide for peace c. but the same also was the principall office off the Bishop as that vnder pretence wherof that kinde off Bishop was instituted Where he cometh to his oulde hole that althowghe the name be not there yet the office is I refere my selfe vnto that written before in that be halfe Howbeit here yt appeareth how he spake withowt booke saying all writers before the Nicene Councell make mention bothe off their names and offices when as Cyprian one off them hathe no worde off them Where he saithe Cypr. speaketh off Cornelius who had gouernement off all the prouince that is the question which becawse he coulde not proue he taketh graunted Where he addeth Cyprian had the charge and ouersight off all churches in Aphrica and for proofe alledgeth the 4. booke 8. Epistle he is abused for Cyprian dothe saie no suche thing He speaking there off himselfe and
althowgh yt be not expressed yt may partly appeare by that disputation vppon 20 Math. for if all the Apostels were lefte of our Sauiour Christe in equall autoritiâ— â–ª ether Peter tooke that vppon him withowt callinge or els he receiued yt off the Apostels But the firste is confessed vntrw therfore yt hath grounde off the word off God that Saint Peter was chosen off the Apostels vnto the presidentship in those actions And as yt hath bene shewed owte off S. Mathew 20. that none off them was higher then other so off S. Peter yt appeareth particularly in that he and S. Iohn were sent by the colledge of the Apostels wheras if he had bene made cheife by our Sauiour and that from the ascention vnto his dying daie yt had not bene lawfull for the Apostels by making him their Embassadour to haue made him inferior to the resâ—dâ—w I know what the Papistes answer in this poincte but the D. bancke being discouered I thincke he will chaunge his creditors Where he saith yt is contrary to scripture because S. Peter 2. Act. so soudenly defended the Apostels againste the accusation off dronkennes as he coulde not tary for their voices it is ridiculous For I would know first what testimonie of scripture he hath to proue yt doon so soudenly Then who is so sensles as not to vnderstand that the eleuen standing with him could not in a trice ether by voice or finger lifted vp caste that charge off speaking then vpon Peter so that onles he did as it were take the Iewes wordes owte off their mouth no time could wante for that matter He saith further Act. the 1 and 15. considered yt shal appeare allwaies Peters office to speake firste and rule the action and that he was at no time chosen therto by voices much les at euery particular meeting which first is a grosse petition off that in question Then if wee were not hable to shewe by the worde that our S. Christe did not apoincte Peter cheife off the reste yet by what ether sentence or worde owte off the scripture is he hable to shewe that he was appoincted gouernour by him ouer all the reste during his liffe Thirdly to leaue Actes 15. disorderly alledged which is to be handled in the very nexte diuision let him shew vs how he can proue that S. Peter was cheif in that actioÌ„ of praier where yt ys said that all the Apostles lifted vp their voice likewise in the election of the deacons where the calling together off the disciples the exhortacion vnto them the praier for the Deacons chosen the laying on off handes is as indifferently giuen to all the reaste as to Peter All know that one conceiued the praier in the name off the reste that one was president in the election But that that was Peter more then ether Iohn or Iames or any the reste can not be shewed by one title off scripture yet our D. doth assure vs and as he saith owt off the scripture that Peter was the lodesman Where I shew that to suppose Peter not chosen by the Apostels to take vpoÌ„ him the gouernmeÌ„t is to doo him iniury he answereth he was appointed vnto yt off God and lawfully As if to be appointed off God and lawfully could not stand with the Apostels chusing of him or their electioÌ„ were not the electioÌ„ of god For if he meane he was chosen to yt by Christe imÌ„ediatly it is that in question wherof he bringeth not a lettre of proofe But this iudgemeÌ„t offmine hath no ground off scripture or ether learned or auncient autoritie What ground off scripture I haue let the reader iudge off that already and to be alledged in the next diuis For autoritie I haue shewed that Musculus whom he hath made his pillor in this behalfe affirming that Peter vvas in many places the cheife is againste him which saith he was alwaies cheife and for me as giuing therby to vnderstand that this cheiftie varied and was sometimes put vpon other Which is also confirmed by Caluin who in saying the Apostels gaue this vnto Peter for the moste parte that he should speake firste confirmeth both that he had his preheminence off the Apostels and that he had yt not alwaies Secondly I haue here alledged the Scoliaste that all vvas doone by commen consente Wherto he answereth he saith not Peter was at euery assembly chosen cheife which is vaine For if all were doone with consente then Peters forespeaking a parte of that which was done was likewise What wil he say to Gratian his good expounder which in this cause is more fauorable then the Papistes he hath folowed which fetch Peters cheifdome from our Sau. Christe for he confesseth that Peter vvas chosen by the Apostles Wher owte off the scoliaste I shewed that this presidentship off Peter vvas not doone imperiously vvith dominion or povvre he answereth no lawfull iurisdiction not of the king him selfe is so Which smelleth off Anabaptistrie and is before confuted For if the vvorde imperiously vvhich I vsed be taken often in euill parte yet may not I beseche yow a Prince doe princelike vvhich is the vvorde the Scoliast vseth may not the higher power doo thinges vvith powre both vvhich the Scoliaste denieth to haue bene done of Peter But there is in superioritie humilitie If you meane that Princes muste be humbly minded I graunte but yf you meane that humilitie in Princes will not suffer to commaund Princelike in thinges lawfull I denie yt He addeth that in rule and autoritie meaning ciuill there is seruitude If he meane to the lorde I graunte and then yt is nothing to the pourpose If that Kinges are seruantes vnto their peoples which onely can haue place here I denie yt for the cause before assigned Where wee see againe how the D. as if he led Princes in a stringe maketh them to beare vp my Lorde Archbishops traine For seing he seeth yt denied him to rule princelike or with powre for shifte off answer he wresteth the scepter owte of their hand saying the king him selfe may not doe so yf the Scoliast had said that Peter did nothing tyrannically nothing with oppression which two are aswel denied vnto Princes as to bishops then the D. answer would haue serued But when he saith he did nothing princelike nothing by povvr yt is manifest he tawght that the rule lawfull in Princes ouer their subiectes was not meete for Peter ouer the other Apostels Where he addeth the Scoliaste saith Peter rose c. as one that had receiued the Presidentship of the Apostels to let pas his translation which in steed off disciples vnderstanded of all the church hath put Apostles which was peculier then to the 11. he doth but daly For I deny not that Peter had receiued yt but that he had yt giuen off our Sau. Christe immediatly or during his liffe both which are in controuesie there is not a worde Where in the entrance
force off this worde prescribed were not more then contemed and asmuche as his particularly expressed But I haue shewed that he requireth also that al church officers be expressed in the worde and what expressed meaneth is before obserued The reader to make vp his mouth with aÌ„d as yt were for a ban quetting dish hathe the next whole chapter off repetitions which ys answered and so is the nexte vnto yt Thus we are by the grace off god come to an ende off this treatise wherin let the reader iudge whether yt hathe bene proued that the offices off archbishops and archdeacons be vnlawfull that they came not into the church 300. yeares after the ascension off our Sa. Christe that there names are likewise vnlawfull by the worde forbiddeÌ„ by auncient councels not to be founde in any auncient writing before 400. yeares approched Further whether that euery congregation owght to haue a bishop that one onely may haue two or moe that they owght all to haue like titles and autoritie Sauing that in their meetings for orders sake one by consent of the rest gouerneth that action in suche sorte as is declared That all these pointes off the bishop haue grounde off the word off God and moste off theÌ„ shewed to haue remained some time after thapostels and the traces loÌ„ge after Finally whether that euen the elder Bishops when they were declined from the synceritie off gods ordinance and the archbishops and archdeacons which he neuer ordeined were much more tollerable then ours as those whose autority was without comparison les and pompe none at all Esr 6. 15. Neh. 2. â— a Esr 4. 12 Neh. 6. 1. b Neh. 6. 10. 17. 18. 19. c Esr 4. 12 c. Neh. 2. 19. d Lib. de haeres nost tep e l. 2. de legit iudic reruÌ„ eccl. f lib. 5. de cathol eccles a M. Cap i to vnto M. Farel in the boke off M. Cal. Epist b Vpon 4. Ephes c In the life off M. Calu. d pa 299. 27. line pag. 459. 47. lin item pa. 560. lin 5. item pa. 646. li. 29. c. Calu. in his praeface to the psames Act. 22. 20 Iob 31. 35 36. pag. 33. pag. 55. pag. 33. pag. 33. pag. 354. pa. 12. 34. 20. Act. 27. August 2. lib. Serm. de moÌ„te Sozom. 6. lib. 20 c. Cicero â— li. de nat deorum Pag 25. pag. 799. pag. 709. Pag. 586. Pag. 48. Pag. 781. a pag. 12. pag. 446. b In this boke pa. 154. li. 16. c pa. 225. d pa. 354. pag. 173. p. 241. 283 a pag. 207 b pa. 412. c pag. 123. d pa. 1. 9. e pa. 423. pa. 4. 8. 9 12. pag. 1. 20. c. pag. 707. In orat pro Muraena pag. 16. a Arist in his Rhetorick ad Theodecten a Herâ—clitus b Act. 23. 5 1. Cor. 4. 10. 2. Cor. 11. 19. 12. 13. c August 15. l. coÌ„tra Faust Manich c. 4. pag. 156 Exo. 18. 25 Deut. 1. 15 pag. 157. pag. 198. off this boke Decad 5. serm 4. Psal 69. 4. Psal 35. 11 pa. 10. 14. 118. 171. 195. pag. 2. 16. 27. 72. 89. 280. 593. 656. pag 16. pag. 20â— Genes 25. 22. In M. Cal. Epistles Nomb. 13 28. c. Genes 25. 23. Nehem. 3 Neh. 2. 5. pag. 40â— 1. 2 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 14. 15. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. 17. 13. 14. 15. 16. 18. 19. 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. 28. 29. 30. 31. 32. 33. 34. 35. 36. 37. 10. Esâ—â— â–ª Esay 60. 12. 1. Reg. 15. Act. 10. Cyp. lib. 2. epist. 3. 23 Leui. Iam. 2. 5. Act. 17. Schelomo Iarchi Esra 8. ca 15 vers 2. Tim. 3. 1 epist. 4. Rom. 3. vpon the 86. Psal Epist 18. epist. 48. Against Maxim. â— the Arrian 3. 14. chap. De vnitate ecclesiae cap. 3. Contr Iulian PelagiannÌ„ lib. prim lib. de natur grat Ier. 3. To praefat in Iob. Ioâ—â—â—â— â–ª Iohn 6. 66. Ier. 3. To praefat in Iob. Num. 11. 25. Act. 15. Iohn 10. 24. Iud. 5. 10. Mala. 2. 3. Phil. 3. 8. Lib. 3. c. 4 1. Cor. 11. ca. 18. 19. Mat. 1 â–ª Ephes 4. 13. Coloss 3. 10. Acta Ratilboncusia Quà m ipsaruÌ„ scripturaruÌ„ verbis expressa ipsis tamen scripturae verbis implicida 9. Iosuah 14. Deut. 20. 1. Sam. 21. 2. Iosue 1. Reg. 9 2. Sam. 7. 7. 1. Chron. 17. 6. In the 29. diuisioÌ„ of the first Article In the defence off the Apologie 5. parte ca. 15. diuision 1. 6. Rom. 8. Rom. 1. Cor. 3. 12. Col. 3. 19. 2 Pet. 2. 1. Math. 26. â—3 35. 2. Proue 12. 5. 1. Cor 10. 1. Tim. 4. 14. Rom. Cie 1. off Caluin vpoÌ„ the cpistle and Insti l. 3. ca. 15. s 5. 1. Cor. 10. Mat. 5. 29. Gal. 6. 18. Mat. 6 1. Cor. 8. 11. Rom. 14. 15. 20. Bucer vpon the 18. of S. Math. 1. Cor. 14. Rom. 14. 19. Rom. 14. 24. epist. 1. Cor. 5. 2 Tim. 2. 18. 1. Tim. 2. 20. 2. Cor. 13. Pag. 667. 1. Tim. 5. 8. sect pa. 5. off his booke 22. Exo. Num. 15. 30. 31. 32. 10. Heb. 28. 19. Deut. Chron. 2. 15. â— Esra 26 ver 27. 28 2. Chro. 6 Prou. 8. 6. Mat. 5. Hosius de tradit Contr. literas petit lib. 3. cap. 6. Cypri in ser de bapti Chr. De praescript advers haeret 2. lib. ad â—â—xorem De Monogam De coron militis 65. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 20. Li. 4. con Don. ca. 23. De bapt contr Donatist 5. lib. 23. ca. epist. 119. lib. de spirit sanct 〈…〉 Aristot ad Theode Vpon 2. Tim. 3. Cal. Institu 4. cha 20. s 15. Bez. in his booke of putting Here. to death Ephes 2. Beza in his former booke 1. Cor. 9. Deu. 25. 4. 1. Cor. 9. 1. Iohn â— Deut. 19. 13. Rom. Leuit. 19. 29. Iob. 31. 11. Gen. 26. 11. Gen. 38. 24. Nomb. 35 33. 34. Gen. â— Math. 26 Iohn 18. 31. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In theÌ„ c. of punis of forbidden lust In his com vpp Iohn Har. in Mo. super iudic 7. mandati Har. in c. 13. v. 5 Deut. Rom. 6. Rom. 13. Prouer. 6. Deut. 13. 9. ver Deut. 17. 7. ver In the next treatise 4. lib. off the liffe off Const 1. lib. 9. cap. Iulius firmicus Materâ—us 1. Rom. epist. 11. 14. 20. 83. pag. 130. Pag. 133. Act. 1. 23. 1. Tim. â— ver 10. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Plut. 1. li. Epi. 4. 4 li. 3. ca. 3. cap. 15. s 4. li. 5. c. 2. s pag. 133. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pag. 135. Pa. 25. Rom. 1. 12 Act. 18. 26. Socrat. 1. 8 Sozom 1. 18. 1. Cor. â— 5 Vpon the 1. Act. Ma. Beza vpon the 14. of the actes Vpon the 5. of S. Pa. to Timo. ver 22. Vpon the first vnto Titus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ImperiuÌ„ 6. Act. Act. 1. Act. 14. Ansvv to his first question 1. Act. 13. Act. 14. Act. Act. 6. 3. 5. To his
vvhich vvere sanctified to that vse although others vvere as apt to doo the vvorcke as they I concluded that homilies c. not sanctified of the Lord to that pourpose ovvght to be kept ovvt he answereth that similitudes be no sufficient proofe and that the Lord did not commaund that nothing should be red in the church but canonicall scripture not remembring that it is the holy ghostes which teacheth that the tabernacle with the vessels were made according to the patron off the church now The which in the holy trumpetes is more clearly seen considering that the holy gost commaunding them to be blowen by the priestes alone and comparing the publicke teaching with the sound off them doth not obscurely declare that they were shadowes therof Therfore as the trumpetâ— were sancrified to the temple by the commaundement off God so to make Homilies holy in Gods principall and publicke seruice the like autoritie is required Where I shew that nether homilies nor Apocrypha are to be compared in goodneâ— in themselues nor in fruict tovvard the hearer vvith the scripture and reading theroff wherin the D. laboured not but â—oâ—â—ered against the Adm. he answereth that nothing can therby be concluded against homilies which may not be against sermons and other interpretations and rather against sermons then homilies which is detestable For therby he affirmeth that homilies are both better in them selues and red more fruictfull to the hearers then the word off God preached Wherin he controileth also the order off our church which will haue homilies gyue place â—f there be any to preach For confutacion wheroff I send the reader to that before disputed â–ª for if the word preached be more fruictfull then the word yt selff red then reading off homilies inferior in fruict to the reading of scriptures by the D. confession heere must be muche more inferior to the word preached His reason is for I make no make no other difference betwixt homilies and sermons but that one is pronounced within booke the other not so Belike homilies and sermons are equall in all other thinges yet homilies excell sermons in that they are red in the booke the other is doon by liuely voice But is there no difference at all but this first â—et hâ—m vnderstand that sermons in the churche are expresly commaunded off the Lord are such as are necessary for all churches and which no one can want As for homilies if they were in this dearth off preaching graunted conuenient for our church yet haue they no commaundement wherby they are made necessary and such as the church is bound vnto they also are such as ether all or the most florishing churches haue not In which difference there is as great a goulf between them as is betwen heauen and earth I speake off them now as if they were conueniently ordeined For although in such case during the conuenience they ought to be kept as profitable orders off the church yt thes chaungeable constitutions compared with the eternall sawe off God are infinitely inferior so it is vtterly false which he saith afterward all kinde off publishing the doctrine in scripture haue necessary vses in the church Wherby he maketh thinges necessary to saluaceoÌ„ nether expressed nor necessarily concluded of the scripture and condeÌ„neth in this behalf all churches which ether haue bene or are not receiuing the vse off homilies Thus one 's the singular fruict off preaching the word is manifest to be so much greater then homilies reading as the meanes ordeined off the lord is more fruictful then that off men Secondly if they were conuenient yet they might both be made and publickely red withowt any of those ordinary ministeries which the lord hath appointed in his word for a priuate maÌ„ may write them as he may doo a commentary and if a minister make them yet he doth nor that by bond off his ministery for then he should leaue a part off it vndoon which wrote not homilies and hauing doon all other partes should be gilty off the not fulfilling off it for omitting this seing therfore there is no commaunded ministery off God required nether in making nor reading of them and sermoÌ„s can not be made withowt there is heere an other singular difference lifting vp preaching with the fruict theroff so far aboue homilies red â–ª as the Lordes autorised Embassadour with his broad seale and letters patentes is aboue him in whom no such markes appeare withowt whose ministery when as I haue shewed faith can not be engendred nor men ordinarily saued there being plentifull saluacioÌ„ withowt homilies reading as appeareth both otherwise and by other churches where they are not the difference of preaching with the fruict theroff is incomparably more then that by homilies reading The third difference is that where sermons are applied to the present circumstance which by chaunge off times budding off new vices rising of errors c. vary almost euery day this kinde off interpretation as that which is starcke and annuÌ„med can not poursue them for where the preacher with his sermon is able according to the manifold windinges and turninges of sinne to winde and turne in with yt to th end he may stricke it the homilies are not able to turne nether off the right hand nor off the left but to what quarter soeuer the enemies are retyred yt must keepe the traine wherin it was set off the maker And if it were possible which is not to make homilies against all diseases off vices and errors and that were also graunted that the reading ministers could both discerne the sickenes and apply the medicine laied vp in the homily which requireth the skill off a learned man yet as no physicion how cunning soeuer can so well prescribe at ones and in grosse against a disease as he that vpon euery step yt maketh giueth counseill and applieth his medicine so no homily maker be he neuer so great a diuine can at ones and before hand prescribe so apt and stroÌ„g remedies against sinne as he that doth yt vpon the present occasion Homilies then not able to comme to the vices further then vices coÌ„me to them their vse for this and other cawses aforesaied is priuate For a maÌ„ feeling him self assaulted in any wise and knowing a treatise arming him against that assault may for his vse be profitably occupied in it I leaue the difference in giftes instrumentall causes off sermons and homilies when as beside the giftes required in homilies ether reading or making there are in sermons required the gift off vtterance and memory I passe also that the D. in saying there is no difference between an homily red and a sermon preached but that the one is pronounced within booke the other not so maketh no differeÌ„ce between hym that writeth his sermon and readeth it and him that readeth an other manÌ„es not able to make one him self this shall be sufficlent to haue shewed that absurdity Where also goe to the ground other
absurdities laied vppon this foundacion as that the promesse off the assistance off gods spirit is as well gyuen to writers of homilies and their hearers as to studiers for sermons and those which heare them as if he had saied the Lord will giue testimonie to his word as wel by the meanes which mē haue deuised as that him self hath ordeined Likewise that sermons should be kept owt off the church as well as homilies if they should be shut owt because they are mennes interpretation considering that the preacher albeit he be a man yet in respect off his publicke ministery instituted and commaund of the Lord is as the angell off God yea as Christ him self which can not be saied off homily readers nor makers especially in that respect To that I alledge off the coustome off the Churches before our Sauiour Christes comming and after towching homilies not vsed in the church and that in such time vvhen there vvas greatest vse off them he answereth that the argument is of autoritie negatiuely where I leaue to the iudgement off the reader what likelihood there is that there were any homilies red in the church whē both holy and ecclesiasticall writers making mētiō of the forme of seruice of God in the church to the least and smallest ceremonies there is none diuers 100. yeares that ones vouchesafeth to mention homilies reading which the D. matcheth with preaching the highest seruice off God in his church Where he saith that I condemne thargument drawen off mennes autoritie yt is vntrue I said it constreineth not And I spake of it where yt is question off searching the truth off a matter wherin many easely deceiued none knoweth the full off it and not off reporting thinges doone in presence off him that writeth wherof he making profession to write can not withowt grosse ouersight passe by where he saith yt is an euill argument to conclude off a thing not doon that it shovld not be doon if the churches gouerned by the Prophetes and Apostles did it not it being put as a peece off the seruice off God and as the D. saith necessary ether they faulted in not vsing this meanes which is absurd or the D. which defendeth the vse off it He saith I can not but acknowledge one good sermon red to edify more then the Chalde paraphrastes so destitute off meanes to refute the reason I set downe why a short paraphrasis was meeter then homilies namely for that they approched nerer vnto the reading off the scripture vvhich is best he setteth his cause at my courtesie But if I graūt that he asketh he is nothing nerer onles he can proue that a learned homily is fitter then a learned paraphrase made now in this great light which the Chalde paraphrastes could not haue when they wrote So that although they expounding darckly according to the time they wrote in be not so fit now to reade as an homily yet yt standeth still that a pharaphrast is fitter to be red then an homily Where he saith I know that the Iewes haue thes paraphrastes yet red I shewed both by scripture ād otherwise that they had thē not openly red when there was greatest neede off them Yf they had them after when diuers corruptions were entred or now when they are the synagogue off Satan tha◠maketh rather for me They which tould hym that Ionathan was 42. yeares before our Sauiour Christ if they ment therby to confute that I set downe should haue gyuen him something to answer the autoritie I alledged Although he might be well 42. yearers before our Sauiour Christ and then too considering he was schoole fellow to Symeon off whom S. Luke maketh mention The testimonies off Denis and Clements Epistles red in the church to proue it vntrue which I affirmed off the churches practise towching reading off the scriptures alone after the Apostles tmes are in that respect idle considering that I onely shewed that that coustome continued after their tymes which were the best and purest Nether can the breaking off this order by some churches vppon some occasion let why it may not truly be saied both the coustome and practise Yf the Centuries coniecture were receiued that Denis epistles were red as Clementes yet that proueth not that they were red generally considering that Clements was red but in certeine churches But what if it be saied that they were red in those churches for that they were vntruly thowght of the Canon of the scripture Wherto serueth not onely that Denises were called Catholike but Clements weighty and wonderfull Likewise that Euseb esteeming Clement the canonicall translatour off the epist. to the Hebrues yt is not vnlike but he had that epistle in like estimation Last off all for that as he lightly reiected the true canonicall bookes off Saint Iames Iude and second off Saint Peter so he lightly held those for canonicall which were not yf I answer thus my coniecture hath better reason then yow yet shew and then the reading off these epistles helpeth yow not yow haue onely Soters which help nothing more being red onely at Corinth Howbeit it shall be sufficient answer that as other corruptions crept in then so the seed of this began to be sowen and that the credit which yowr cawse gaineth in that diuerse churches red them yt leeseth in that diuerse others receiued them not Likewise it maketh against him that the councell giueth no place vnto homilies but in extreme cases off sicknes c. off the minister where he maketh them the peoples ordinary food The councell as it were in a great drowght or snow when all is couered will haue the sheep holpen with this hard meat the D. will haue it their commen allowance Beside that it is the obiectiō which I myself im̄ediatly after preuented my answer wherunto the D. towcheth not but onely affirmeth it a good decree and no cawse off corruption which is grosse beggery considering that I shew how vppon occasion theroff in time came in the popish Legend and Gregories homilies which iustled owt the holy Bible Where I shewed that Bucers wordes secme counterfeit wherby he is browght exhorting to encrease the nomber off homilies when the Lord should blesse the realme with learned preachers forasmuch as there were then learned preachers able to make homilies which should haue exceded the volume of the Bible he answereth that there is no cause to suspect them but the reason he can not answer After he cyteth M Ridly but fondly for if the autority off all those which established that order be not able to make yt good much lesse his alone and being a party in this cawse he owght not albeit a singular mā be witnes Where I alledged the councell councell of Laodicea ordeining that nothing should be red in the church but the canonicall scripture he answereth the councell ment nothing vnder the name of holy scriptures which is an open and shamefull corruption for
stand withowt him is not by any meanes conteined vnder S. Paules Pastor The proofes of yowr diuision of bishops into archbishops and those called by the commen name of bishops are as doubtfull as that wherfore they are brought To proue that the office off an Archbishop was in S. Paules tyme although the name were not is brought the word Consubstantiall ▪ which being the commen hooke off the Papistes to pull in their vnwrittē verities owght to serue the reader for a watch word that tharbishops office needing this phisick is sick off the same disease And for the word it self although it be lawful ād very conuenient and the councell off Syrme did not well in yealding vnto the Arrians to the displacing of it yet yt is not necessarie as withowt which the doctrine off the truth off the diuinitie off our Sauiour Christ can not be mainteined For to say so were to accuse the holy writers S. Iohn especially which debating that cawse against the heretickes of his time Cerinthus Ebion c. did neuer vse it But what is this vnto the Archbishop let vs haue but one testimonie owt off the word off God off the office off an Archbishop for the infinite testimonies off the diuinitie of the sonne of God and then this example may help yow And although the word Consubstantiall were not in S. Paules tyme Yet wordes off the same weight were If yow can shew therfore wordes of the same valew with Archbishop although yow shew not this yt shall be sufficiēt if yow can not then this example maketh against yow Here also is further to be obserued that this answer off the D. off the office of the archbishop being in the Apostles time although the name was not is the armour vvherewith the Popes title of vniuersall bishop is mainteined For this is Hardinges answer to the bishop that although the name of vniuersall bishop was not at the first gyuen to the Pope yet the autoritie was After he flieth to his ould refuge of the Prince and there seeketh couer for the Archbishop asking whether he shall haue no autoritie in the church becawse he was not in S. Paules tyme. Although S. Paul had saied that our Sauiour Christ had gyuen princes vnto his church immediatly after his ascension as he beareth vs in hand he gaue archbishops ether they must haue had autoritie then or neuer after So keeping yowr similitude if our Sauiour gaue Archbishops when he ascended and in S. Paules time ether they must haue had their autoritie then or neuer after And the case is nothing like for if there were no Christian Princes in the Apostles times they being needfull for preseruation off the churches the cawse was that it was not in the Apostles power to ordein Christian Princes But it was in their power to haue prouided the churches off Archbishops if they had bene needfull and therfore they had bene inexcusable for not appointing them seruing so greatly to the building off the church as we are borne in hand Moreouer the comparison is most vnfitly made seing the cyuill magistrate is a perpetuall office for all times persones places wheras by his owne confession the Archbisop is temporall and arbitrarie Where also he asketh whether the ciuill Magistrate shall not haue the cheif autoritie in gouerning the church because there ys no expresse mention off him in thes two places I answer that the Princes autoritie is established in other places so that it may florish withowt thes But the Archbishoprick seing yt ys an ecclesiasticall function ether must be planted by one off thes places or die in the church considering that there is no ecclesiasticall function which is not here set forth Yowr collection off my wordes is euill bound together for how cleaue thes Some offices instituted off God endured for a time therfore men may deuise new offices Where lieth the strenght of yowr argument Whether in this that becawse God instituted offices for a time therfore man may or in this that God did abrogate certein offices therfore man may institute Which soeuer yow say as yow must needes say one the absurditie is apparant for in both the comparison is made between the autoritie off God and thautoritie off man Betwene whom how great distance there is so great difference is there between yowr argument and a iust conclusion The cleane contrarie is gathered rather For as we reason against the Papistes that God did not abrogate his owne ceremonies that men should thrust in others considering that if he would haue had ceremonies he would haue taken off his owne so yt may be saied that God did not cut off his owne ministeries to make place for others and that if moe ministeries off preaching and gouerning iointly had bene necessarie beside Doctors and Pastors he would rather haue kept his owne then takē those vvhich men deuise Here all shiftes and coulors failing him and not being once able to lift at this reason he hath chaunged my argument For where I had saied yt forth in a plaine hypotheticall Syllogisme he hath altered yt But I will offer yt him againe yf vnder Saint Paules Pastor tharchbishop be comprehended then he is necessarie and commaunded by the vvord off God but yow say he is comprehended therfore he is commaunded and necessarie Which if it be true then yow are fallen from yowr distinction of thinges necessarie to saluacion and not necessarie off thinges arbitrarie and commaunded by the word off god But let vs see now yow haue prepared the argument after yowr owne fashion and as yow thowght yow could weld yt how yow deale with yt Yow say first this proposition Pastors are necessarie at all times is particular verily the masters by whom this should be iudged neuer tawght that an indefinite proposition in a necessarie matter is particular But because yow like not the forme which I vsed yow shall haue it after yowr owne in this sort All S. Paules Pastors are necessarie the Archbishop as yow say is one off S. Paules Pastors therfore he is necessarie Here if yow denie the first proposition yow haue the whole councell and Senate almost of learned men against yow affirming that those two Pastor ād Doctor are amōgest the rest perpetuall offices And if to be a perpetuall office be verified off the Pastor which S Paul speaketh of then it must be verified off all conteined vnderneath amongest whom yow say the Archbishop is Secondly the Archbishop being made one off the giftes which our Sauiour ascending sent vnto his church if yt were in the power off the church ether to establish or not to establish him yt should be in her power to refuse the giftes off Christ which if it be absurd that also must be wheroff this followeth Thirdly if the Archbishop be necessarie at any time which must needes be if he be comprehended vnder S. Paules Pastor then goeth to the grownd his cōmen refuge that his office may be instituted
or not at the churches vvill Moreouer if he say that it is necessarie ād commaunded a◠some tyme and not at others vvhat a miserable case is the churche in that hath no certein addresse owt of the word vvhen that necessitie and commaundement beginneth and when it endeth vvhen this office is in season vvhen owt of season Lastly forasmuch as S. Paul speaketh of offices thē in the chuch not of those vvhich came after as the Ans him self is forced to confesse the Archbishops office must needes haue bene in the Apostles tyme Which if it be true those times being as the Answ hath borne vs in hand so vnlike ours the persons in the church then off so different dispositions from those now the place also the gospell being thē in the East partes where now it is in the West it must needes follow that this monely office off the archbishop which ebbeth and floweth being fit for the Apostles times is by all likelihood vnfit for ours His distinction vnto the second proposition is that an Archbishop in respect off the ministerie off the word and Sacramētes is necessarie alwaies but not in respect of policie and gouernemēt Which is asmuch to say as an archbishop vvhen he is an archbishop is alwaies necessarie for the church For when he hath not the owtward gouernement then by yowr owne rule he is no archbishop then which speach what can be more absurd And of this answer followeth that there is a time vvhen the Pastors haue nothing to doo vvith the externall policie and gouernment off the church but onely to administer the word and Sacramentes and then the church shal be an heape and not a bodie a confused multitude not an orderly societie Yet in the next section he gyueth the gouernement off the church and order vnto the bishops and archbishops and will haue them part the stake off the Apostles autoritie vvhich they had in the church And as this answer is absurd so yt ys contrarie to that he hath set downe in his former booke that not onely the office off the Archbishop is necessarie but most necessarie I saied before that the Apostle speaketh to the Ephes off mynisteries vvhich haue to doo vvith preaching the vvord but neuer added as yow in yowr Doctors booke and here and not those which haue to doo with order and discipline Therfore I had nothing forgotten my self if be would haue vnderstanded that which is plaine to all the world for thes two may well stand together the Apostle spake there onely off functions conuersant in the vvord and the Lord spake of those functiōs vvhich Preach the vvord and administer the gouernement for the word onely doth not seclude gouernemēt from those ministries but shutreth owt all ministeries not preaching as that off the Elder and Deacon And yt is one thing to say the Lord spake there onely off preaching mynisteries an other to say he spake there of ministries onely preaching which me thincketh yow could not be ignorāt of Therfore Saint Paul reckening vp the ministeries there which haue together with the preaching of the word the administration off gouernement and making no mention off the Archbishop supposed to haue both yt followeth that yow are yet behinde with yowr answer I haue not confuted my shadow but yowr fond phantasie For if S. Paul speake in that place of those that haue the ministerie off the word and Sacramentes onely and not off those which haue to doo with the order of discipline yt followeth that Apostles haue nothing to doo with order and discipline forsomuch as they are amongest those which S. Paul there speaketh of If this cogitacion neuer entred into yowr head how cometh it to passe that yt ys found in yowr papers Lastly yow say the administration off discipline and gouernement in the Apostles is fallen vpon the Archbishops and bishops the ouerthrow off my whole assertion Yf a man will belieue yow speaking he may otherwise here is nothing but I saied yt And surely yt must be a very simple hould that is cast downe with this paper shot of bare affirmatiō but if yow will weigh a litle what yow say yow shall see that if there be any bullet at al in this yowr saying yt is charged wholy vppon yowr self For before yow haue saied once or twise that the office and autoritie off an Archbishop was in the Apostles tymes Which if yt be true how doth the Archbishop receiue his auauritie off order and gouernement by their death for hauing yt before he cannot receiue yt by their departure Ether therfore this is vntrue that the archbishop exerciseth the same autoritie which the Apostles or that which yow saied before that the office off the Archbishop was in the Apostles time or els this third is true that he hauing in the Apostles time autoritie which he hath now by their death obteined beside their former autoritie that which the Apostle had also Which how neere it pricketh at the papacye I leaue to euery one to consider But yf the Archbishop will succede vnto the administration off order and gouernement off the Apostels why sheweth he not his euidence why bringeth he not forth his recordes of bequest off resignation that it may appeare he is not entred as a trespasser In that sense which I haue shewed in an other place I graunt it true which Ierome saith that all bishops succede vnto the Apostles but shew me who speaketh any thing off the succession off the archbishop vnto them Nay verily that is flat against the archbishops autoritie For if euery bishop haue that autoritie in his church which the Apostles had in all the world it followeth that there nether needeth nether can be any archbishop to receiue any theroff And that if any archbishop chalenge a greater autoritie then is in any one bishop he pulleth to him self greater autoritie in his prouince then euer the Apostles had in the world And by the same reason that they be Lordes and superiours ouer bishops they must be lordes and superiours in their prouince ouer the Apostles them selues if they were aliue Considering they rule ouer those which in their dioceses haue the same autoritie that the Apostles had This I speake not that I thinck the Bishops had not this autoritie from the very birth and foundacion off the function as towching the gouernement off their churches or that there came any autoritie vnto them by the Apostles death which they had not in their tymes but that yt may be vnderstanded that if there were any such succession vnto the Apostles gouernement as the D. phansieth the bishops are the right beyres and that not certein other some shut forth but euery one as Ierome saith Although if tharchbishop should haue an Apostolicall autoritie in gouerning his prouince it hath appeared and more shall God willing that the Apostles gouernement was far from that principalitie and rule one ouer an other which tharchbishops chalēge ouer