others or else deny it so you shal see in time that although our worshipfull Archpriest hath done nothing but by fahaer Garnets direction yet when his ridiculous vniust vncharitable dâ—ttyrannous proceedings shall come to the scanning father Garnet will doe the best he can to pull his necke out of the coller and master Blackwell shall be the Asse that must beare all the burden So father Parsons that holy man by his practise doth giue father Garnet a pregnant example In the most of those seditious bookes which he the said father Parsons hath published he hath either concealed his name or giuen them such names as it hath pleased him to deuise And one of his said bookes being set out by him vnder the name of master Dolman now that many exceptions are taken vnto it he good man was not the author of it his name is not Dolman and gladly he would shift and wash his hands of it but all the water betwixt this and Rome will not serue his turne so to do although by the common principle of the Iesuits he may by lying and equiuocating make a faire shew But of this enough is said before As concerning the second point I will now make it plaine vnto you that the Iesuits being charged as in the former question is set downe are not therein slaundered any way vniustly For First it is plaine that father Parsons and his company diuide it amongst them how they list haue laide a plot as being most consonant and fitting to their other designments that the common lawes of the Realme of England must be forsooth either abolished vtterly or else beare no greater sway in the Realme then now the ciuill lawe doth And the chiefe reason is for that the state of the crowne and kingdome by the common lawes is so strongly setled as whilest they continue the Iesuits see not how they can worke their wils And on the other side in the ciuill lawes they thinke they haue some shreds whereby they may patch a cloake together to couer a bloodly shew of their treasons for the present from the eies of the vulgar sort And certainly I could not choose but smile when I read this point in father Parsons booke to see how prettily this fine fingred figgeboy conueigheth his matter how the common lawyers must waite vpon the Ciuilians to beare their bookes after them and how they are to applaud to all that the doctors will auerre to be lawe vpon their bare words vnto them Secondly the said good father deeming of all men it seemeth by himselfe hath set downe a course how euery man may shake off all authoritie at their pleasures as if he woulde become a newe Anabaptist or king Iohn of Leyden to draw all the world into a mutinie rebellion or combustion And this stratageme is how the common people may be inueigled and seduced to conceit to themselues such a libertie and prerogatiue as that it may be lawfull for them when they thinke meete to place and displace kings and princes as men may doe their tenants at will hirelings or ordinarie seruants Which Anabaptisticall and abhominable doctrine proceeding from a turbulent tribe of traiterous Puritanes other heretikes this treacherous Iesuite would now foist into the catholike church as a ground of his corrupt diuinitie And sure it is strange to consider how the caitiffe handleth this point giuing aduantage thereby to all nations to reuolt from the See apostolike if any catholike prince would take holde or build vpon this absurd fellowes word or authoritie For that amongst other arguments he insisteth vpon certaine rebellious most traiterous examples how some kings in this Island haue beene dealt with As if a man should take vpon him to prooue murther lawfull bicause many examples of murther may be produced or as if this were a good argument England Scotland Ireland Denmarke Swethia many states in Germany many men in France and else where haue reiected the authoritie of the Pope his holines the See of Rome therefore Italy France Spaine other catholike countries may do the like Fourthly the said good fathers with their ringleader and muster-master father Parsons do take vpon them in the saide booke and in other treatises to deale with matters of succession and titles of the crowne as if their bare words were of higher authoritie then either Court Parliamentall Prince or Pope and bicause as it seemeth their said ringleader is a bastard himselfe it is woonderfull to see what very small account he maketh of succession by inheritance title of descent birthright or bloud Now tell me in this case A gentleman or substantiall yeoman hauing one heire and many seruants dieth were he not an asse that would affirme that the right of the saide heire should depend vpon the pleasure of his fathers seruants If they thought meet he should haue his fathers lands or otherwise they would bestow them as they thought good I am sure you would account it vniust vnnaturall indecent and ridiculous And all that this traitorous Iesuite writeth of this point is grounded vpon the like folly whilest he laboureth so giantlike in opposing himselfe against succession by inheritance to fight most impudently with all lawes nay with nature and with God himselfe Hereunto it also appertaineth how after he hath contriued the meanes as he thinketh how to depriue kings and heires from their inheritance he then taketh vpon him to appoint how others may and are to succeede in their roomes and possesse their ancient right And he proceedeth herein as grauely and substantially as he hath done in the premisses For except this may carrie a shew of a good argument fiue hundred or a thousand yeeres since the ancestors of the king of Spaine the king of Fraunce and of diuers other kings had no interest to the kingdomes which now they enioy therefore some others must be found out to be preferred to those kingdomes the good father saith nothing There is one who hath written a booke of the Bathes in England and as I remember for it is long since I saw the booke the author of it the rather to extol the first finder out of the said Bathes that therby he might prooue him to be an ancient gentleman doth set downe his petigree and neuer leaueth it I assure you vntill he come to these words which was the sonne of Seth which was the sonne of Adam It were not amisse in my poore opinion that Master Parsons should carefully seeke out for this maÌ„s kinred It is not vnlikely but that by his skil he might intitle them to very many kingdomes distributing this to one and that to another as in his omnipotentencie he should hold it most conuenient The man if he liue long will prooue mad in the end without question except you can imagine that these and such like vanities are sober conceits And yet that which he saith against the blood royall of England to aduance a pretended interest to the Infanta
regard or esteeme to be had of him aboue a Seminarie or secular Priest or no. Thirdly the authoritie of the See Apostolike is here made doubt of sci whether the Priests might lawfully appeale from this mock-powerable audacious blind authority of the Ies Archpriest or no. Fourthly the inextinguible inexpugnable indelible vertue of the sacraments of Christs church is here weakned and made scruple of scil whether it be of equall force and validity in a secular Priest as in a Iesuit c. Fiftly the temporall state and common-wealth of this land especially all Catholike subiects vnder her Maiesty are indangered by running of the Iesuits fatall course as hereafter shall be proued Sixtly the innocent laitie of the simpler but well meaning harts are already seduced by the Iesuits factioÌ„ moe will be nay vtterly ouerthrown and led away in errour aswell against the Catholike church as their natiue countrie and common wealth if the seculars let the play fall and now sleep in silence Seuenthly the life maners good name all that is in priesthood in religion in conscience to be respected stands now vpon to be tried betwixt the Iesuits and the seculars Therefore I say that for these and many other waighty reasons they ought in bounden dutie to prosecute so laudable memorable and spiritually heroicall an act begun to the vttermost and nothing to doubt of aiders throughout all parts of Christendom to assist theÌ„ to the pulling downe of these seditious Templarian Iesuiticall sectaries THE VIII ARTICLE VVHether then is not the former charity zeale feruor of Catholikes on all sides much hindred by these vnsauorie contentions or no how it comes and whether the like haue euer bene before amongst Catholike Priests THE ANSWERE FIrst whosoeuer was Catholike a 20. yeares or but 16. yeares agone about which time there was a muttering of this Allobrogical gouernmeÌ„t of Fa. Westons my selfe being one though minimus fratrum meorum of 22. Seminarie Priests and so many moe of the Catholike laitie of honorable worshipfull and meaner calling all prisoners together in the Marshalseas he should there haue seene so palpable a difference betwixt the loose Catholikes that were then the strictest that are now as the first might haue bene patterns of pietie to the second for all religious charitable and Catholike actions Secondly no question there is in it but that the like contentioÌ„s haue bene in Gods church heretofore and will be to the worlds end otherwise could not the church Catholike be called militant here on earth nor be fitly coÌ„pared to a ship tossed vpon the sea one while in danger of sinking another while of splitting and then again of running vpon some rock or on ground and still interchangeably fleeting betwixt stormes and calmes nor yet parabolized with a net cast into the sea gathering containing in it all kinds of fish and frie or with new sowne seed which growing vp is intermixed with weeds Thirdly although it be rather to be accounted of as a miracle that all this while there hath not then to hold it as a scandale that now there hath fallen out such coÌ„tentions amongst Gods seruants Priests seeing that in heauen and that in a second instant of time or third of angelicall existence there was high ambition in paradise and that as some learned Diuines do hold within 3. houres space there was too much curiositie in the Apostles schoole and that within 3. yeres space there was too deep emulation contention auarice and treason wrought against the supreame Maiestie What should I say more if in the Catholike Roman church and Apostolicall chaire of Peter there haue bene already 23. schismes past although then no wonder to heare see the like contentions to these of ours yet that the first brochers of any such went away scotfree it was neuer yet heard of without a curse as Lucifer as the serpent as Iudas or else that they were the beginners of some new heresie or other in the end as Nicholas as Arius as Donatus as Nouatus all as rare men as great shew of zeale in theÌ„ as Catholikly bent and as many deuout graue and learned men to side with them at the first as either Fa. Parsons or Maist Blackwel hath Fourthly it is cleare that the Iesuits contempt of priesthood and irreligious doctrine was and is the originall cause before God and man of the decay of charitie piety and deuotion And therefore wo to the first brochers of these mischiefes Sed nunquid in aeternum irascetur Deus no God forbid THE IX ARTICLE VVHether then all religious zeale being turned into temporized platformes to cast omnia pro tempore nihil pro veritate all Christian charitie counterfetted all iustice violated all pietie decayed and gone and that spirit of humilitie innocencie and simplicitie of heart which earst was in the late Primitiues of English Catholikes being lost expelled and almost quite extinct amongst vs. Is it not the cause of withholding others that would come into Gods church or is it no let at all and if it be then by whose meanes THE ANSWERE IT is questionlesse the hinderance to some and rock of scandale to many that otherwise wold be members visibly of the Catholike church militaÌ„t on earth though not one soule is nor can be kept out thereby that is of God chosen though to vs vnknowne to be of the same church triumphant in excelsis and all this by the slie deuises and Machiuilean practises of the Iesuits as is manifest First for that sundrie Schismatickes and well willers to the Catholike church and religion standing out hitherto vpon worldly respects as being more prudent in their mundane muddy generations said our Sauiour then the children of light and feares of losses troubles and the like are now brought into a fooles paradise of conceit that they are in a better state or at least more secure for the time then those that are alreadie catholike Recusants by reason of these daungerous contentions they heare of to be betwixt the secular cleargie and this should be Monasticall now mock-religious whilst the Catholike laitie following the parts of this and that faction contend with Ego sum Pauli ego Apollo for a supremacie And thus thinke worldlings to haue a good excuse to hold out and so be of neither side but be as neuters or impersonals in terra Secondly amongst many Atheall Paradoxes taught in the Iesuits conclaue or close conuenticles I remember an honorable person and Lord of high degree It was a flat Atheall doctrine secretly taught in Scotland where these three things are common to eate flesh as company occasioneth to reade al kind of bookes indifferently and to go to the masse in the forenoone and to a Puritans serâ—on the afternoone All 3. acts indispensable of the Pope himselfe respecting persons time and place once obiecting vnto me that the Seminary Priests were too scrupulous nice and precise in state cases of conscience said that herein the Iesuits
if either by our aduersaries alone this speech and slaunder as the Iesuites tearme it but yet a slaunder of truth had risen vppon these seditious and factious persons or else that the secular Priests and some Catholikes in Enngland their fauorits had raised it or France only bin the Heraults of that blazon against them or any one peculiar order of religion as Dominicans Benedictines c. had onely impugned them it might haue caried some sense to haue bene but spoken of malice priuate grudge or reuengefull mind at the first so blowne abroad by misinformation detraction and slander augmented like Scoggins wiues crowe from one to twenty But now when Popes Cardinals Bishops and secular Priests when Kings Princes Lords Ladies and Nobles when Gentles Franklins Farmors and artificers when Generals Prouincials Priors Monkes Nunnes and Friers when Catholikes Schismatikes Protestants Puritanes and all other professions sects and opinions holden by any are controld by them and do impugne dislike and cry out of them and euery one of them vpon a seuerall ground independent vpon any relation made from one to another to build vpon that then and in that case all should be false that is reported of them that therefore all their doings are iustifiable their quarrell good and their cause right because impugned on all sides that this should be any testimony of errour heresie Apostacy or Atheisme for any Catholike to dislike of them or write against them because an Apostata Bell did so or because such such heretikes that are fallē out of their society Gods Church withall haue done so or for that the Protestants and present state in England do generally hate them that hereupon they should inferre by necessary sequell scil because such and such schismatikes and heretikes c. write against vs ergo all secular Priests or other Catholikes that do so are schismatikes and heretikes This I say is so grosse a consequent as if it were true they might by induction inferre and proue it that the Pope Cardinals Bishops Prelates and all the whole Cleargy were schismatikes and heretikes saue onely such as sided with the Iesuits and then vpon that inferre againe that the Church were no where but amongst the Iesuits to be found Et sic vno absurdo dato plura sequuntur No heresie euer yet was but it began vpon these very principles or the like grounds whereof and for to giue you more light in this matter reade Vinc. Lirinensis and then tell me what you thinke these Iesuiticall assertions are like to come vnto THE IX ARTICLE WHether any order or profession haue greater better or more signes of assurances that God fights for them then the Iesuits haue or no THE ANSWERE THey are so farre from all signes or tokens that God fighteth for them that on the contrary they haue all the markes and impressions of his heauy wrath and a hideous destruction to fall vpon them hanging eminent ouer their heads For who that is a sound Catholike but knowes that these propositions are manifest signes of reprobation to those that presumptuously build vpon thē as the Iesuits do scil First I am not like to other men i. so grosse a sinner Secondly I am of a society that cannot do amisse i. neither erre in faith nor manners nor gouernement Thirdly I am in a state of perfectiō that cannot be bettered on earth i. perfect in all things Fourthly I am more neere familiar with God then any other i. illuminated with his diuine presence Fiftly I am most certaine and fully assured that I do nothing but in ordine ad Deum i. predestinate and cannot be damned Sixtly I am most certaine that all that fight against me fight against Christ i. fully assured that God fights for me Seuenthly I am out of doubt that all those that dye in and of our society receiue a plenary indulgence or else a generall pardon of all their sins ergo a Iesuite cannot be damned c. A thousand such like positions the Iesuits haue which now I cannot stand vpō but leaue them as they are a most dangerous company for any man or woman that hath care of their owne soule to match or deale withall And sure if the Scriptures had not said that the diuell can transforme himselfe into an Anof light I shold hardly haue thought it possible for any euer to haue bin deceiued as I said many are by the Iesuits plausible doctrine carying poyson in their tongues vnseene and infecting all vnknowne that gaze and admire at them Sed haec est potestas tenebrarum THE X. ARTICLE VVHether then the premises considered in these nine precedent Articles the Iesuitical labor to enrich themselues be according to their rules of good life to do all things gratis And if it be whether their deuises to that end be lawfull and especially their maner of giuing the exercise both to men and women what their intent and meaning is or can be iudged to be therin THE ANSWERE HEre a true compassionate hart might take the Prophets words out of his mouth on our deare countreymen and womens behalfe the neuer inough to be bewailed Catholikes of this age and say quis dabit captii meo aquam aut oculis meis fontem lachrymarum to deplore day night the Church Catholikes present calamities My hart doth bleed to thinke what here I must write of for an vpshot to these Quodlibets of same and report by ruminating with my selfe how infamous the Iesuits will remaine to all posterity that shall reade or heare of what for discharge of mine owne conscience for the ease of many a languishing hart and for a caueat to all men and women If great S. Gregory being a stranger to our nation did be waile the wretched state wherein he saw our ancestors forefathers liue in time of paganitine in so much as he could take no rest vntill first by voluntary intrusion and offer of himselfe to the hazard and after being preuented of his zealous intent vrging of S. Augustine to giue the attempt for conuersion of this land not by the sword or hostile inuasion but by offernig of sacrifice by preaching teaching by going a procession in singing the Letanie by continuall prayer neuer giuing it ouer vntill he had won all those sweet soules vnto Christ of whom he was wōt to say O what a griese it is to see such angellike lookes to haue so loathsome foule spirits within them and if Saint Ambrose in hearing of confessions would of en burst out into such vollees of sighes and flouds of teares as would haue moued a hart of flint to repentance then wonder not if any Catholike Priest that hath any hart at all cannot but be moued with pitty and prickt with pangs of inconsolable griefes to see that state wherein Catholike soules now stand by these mischeiuous mens sedition incensing thē against secular Priests and on the other side to remember the happy ioyfull and
or otherwise left in the Church dictante spiritu sancto therefore called the Law diuine bicause it is of diuine institutioÌ„ Though in very deed the law primary of reason depending vpon synderisis the Law diuine or of God relatione ad creaturas and also the Law of nature be often taken for all one vpon which coniunctions diuisions and distinctions I haue treated at large in the answere to the first part of Parsons Doleman and therefore thereupon we will not now stand Onely this is inough to know for the present that all humane lawes are subordinate to natures Lawe and natures Lawes to the Lawe Primary of God himselfe which we call Diuina voluntas or the aeternall Lawe and by consequent the legifers of the same lawes are so subordinate one vnder an other as when a case comes once to the highest Legifer on earth there is thence no further appeale to be made but all wholy left to Gods iust iudgements Primam enim sedem nemo iudicare potest Out of these grounds then I gather these corolaries First that the Popes excommunication c. for any matters vnder his Pontificall iurisdiction and power although vniustly inflicted were to be obeied in not ministring nor receiuing of any Sacrament vntill the party were absolued c. Secondly that no excommunication can stoppe any man from seeking of iustice Thirdly that no excommunication of his for disobedience to his holinesse selfe in things commanded by him contra ius diuinum vel naturae doth or can take place either in foro conscientiae vel ecclesiae bicause these lawes and legifers are aboue him and his law Fourthly that master Blackwell and his Iesuits with all those of their faction are ipso facto thought to be excommunicated for vsurping the Popes authoritie c. Fiftly that he can debarre no man froÌ„ appealing to the Sea apostolike for any cause whatsoeuer the worst being the appellants if the cause be naught as thereby incurring sometimes an excommunication suspencion c. Sixtly that it is meere calumniation falshood and slander for that seditious faction to giue out that any one of the Catholikes are excommunicated Seuenthly that neither he nor any Iesuite in England dare for their liues stande to it to affirme that all or any of the appellants are excommunicated for that action Eightly that he is a flat antipope in presuming to command any not to seeke for iustice against him to the Sea apostolike and the like is for his and his Iesuiticall faction in their extreame arrogancy in blazing it abroad that it is an act of disobedience contempt c. Ninthly that no such authority can be giuen him as to command any to obey him in all things Tenthly that not the Pope himselfe can command any in and by such generall termes of obedience in all things Eleuenthly that if the seculars had beene iustly excommunicated for any matter depending vpon the appeale it had and ought to haue holden still hanging the same appeale bicause no dispensation can be granted where the partie is bent to continue in that state for the prosecuting whereof the excommunication suspencion c. past against him Twelfthly that if the seculars had beene excommunicated for any other matter independent vpon the appeale there is not a priest in England almost but hath authority to absolue him and so doth it shew the malice of the Iesuits to be so much greater seeing no such thing but that if it were yet an absolution did free them againe they notwithstanding doe driue conceits into the peoples harts as though they remained still in a damnable state which is as much to say as they cannot be absolued the grossest absurdity and greatest impiety that euer was heard of euery one seeing and knowing that the greatest heretike that is may be absolued and restored to his former state againe And therefore they denying this benefite to a Catholike priest shew themselues flat vsurpers as before and a woorse thing besides 13. That there is no question to be made of it but if it be possible the Iesuits will procure an excommunication against the seculars to confirme their former false reports and slanders that they were excommunicated c. before 14. That no excommunication on the inuadors behalfe doth bind any man to take his part against his prince and countrey 15. That to this day was there neuer any excommunication suspencion interdiction c. gotten from the Sea of Rome and denounced against any Prince person common-weath or other state on the behalfe of any one ceteris paribus like to this procured already by the Iesuiticall faction against their Prince and countrey on the behalfe of Spainiards 16. That as the prudent Greeke appealed from Alexander furious to Alexander sober and bishop Crostate from Pope Adrian priuate to Pope Adrian publike and as Summus pontifex in cathedra Petri so may the seculars notwithstanding any decree set downe by his holinesse to the contrary by wrong information giuen appeale euen from the Pope as Clement vnto his holinesse as Peter on their owne and their Prince and countries behalfe THE ARGVMENT OF THE SEVENTH GENERAL QVODLIBET THe reasons alledged in the last Quodlibet against the mischieuous plots and practises aswell in esse as intended by the Iesuiticall intruded authoritie of Blackwels vsurpate Archpresbytery ministreth occasion to speake in this place of matters concerning aswell the seculars as the Iesuits proceedings with and on the behalfe of the catholike Church and common-welth Of which subiect there are two distinct Quodlibets occurring fitly to our purpose to be discussed and reasoned of and both of them tend to one end but by a diuersitie of plots casting in the way and manner of progresse to the thing they ayme at on both sides And therefore shall the first be a Quodlibet of plots by religion that is in what sort and how farre both seculars and Iesuits do and may deale on the behalfe of Gods church for conuersion of their countrey and re-establishing of the catholike faith and religion The other generall Quodlibet shall be of State affaires as how they either do or may meddle therein on the behalfe of their countrey pretending religion as the ground of all the controuersie THE SEVENTH GENERALL QVODLIBET OF PLOTS by Religion THE I. ARTICLE VVHether the seculars or Iesuits seeke more soundly the conuersion of their countrey from all schisme and heresie THE ANSWERE IT is without all question the seculars seeke it more soundly sincerely religiously and Apostlelikely pêª for that the seculars take the very direct course that our Sauior Christ left for and to all his apostles to imitate scil First to seeke the conuersion of soules by preaching and teaching and good example giuing by word and action Secondly by doing all things gratis taking onely things necessary for their maintenance and relieuing of their present wants Thirdly not fishing after vnlawfull gaines to inrich themselues by couine and hypocrisie or other meanes Fourthly
busie to stone Saint Stephen to keepe their clokes that ran after him to beate him downe to get letters with great eagernes and zeale in his kinde to take examine and bring all vp to Hierusalem that should call vpon the name of Iesus and to leaue nothing vndone pertaining to a Pursiuant a persecuter a cruell tyrants part Who that had heard and seene these things would euer haue thought to haue heard it oracled frō heauen of this same man that vas electionis est mihi vt portet nomen meū coram gentibus c And finally who that had seene S. Marceline Pope offering incense to idols S. Boniface polluted in his lust with Aglae a noble Romane matrone The blessed Magdalene pointed at in the streets as a cōmon woman would euer haue looked for to haue heard that the two first should haue bin martyrs or much lesse the last to haue bin a womā of rarest vertues our blessed lady excepted that euer either before or since was borne Sed non sicut homo iudicat Deus Sixtly I say last of al that as there is no assurance of any catholikes perseuerance not any impossibilitie of any ones conuersion that liues on earth So be the profession whatsoeuer it shal happen yet may an affied trust be put for matters pertaining to ciuill conuersation and other affaires in men of good morall life and conuersation be they of what religion soeuer they be shall And if experience haue tried it in Queene Maries daies that a Throckmerton Sir Nicholas by name knowne to haue been a hot protestant was one and the first by Parsons owne confession in Greene-coate that informed the said Queene of such attempts as then were to haue preuented her raigne ouer vs then should we wrong our owne harts cause and actions if any the least-scruple should be in vs not to reueale whatsoeuer trecherie or treason were intended by any against our now Soueraignes royall person crowne or state and by consequent doe both our selues and those vnder her Maiestie wrong if we should be distrustfull to vtter our mindes freely or to enter into familiaritie with any for to doe either our afflicted friends as we are catholikes or our countrie as we are English any good that can be possible THE ARGVMENT OF THE EIGHT GENERALL QVODLIBET IN the argument of the seuenth I told you of this eight Quodlibet which by many particular points there glanced at you may perceiue must directly tteate of matters of state in the highest degree And therefore is it of all other the most dangerous point to deale in without offence of any whom I would not willingly offend for mine owne part in any thing by reason of speciall occurrents which being handled as some heretofore haue handled them might breede great apparant and manifest danger either to body or soule or both together For here I am to intreate of excommunications and depositions of princes of pontificall power and regall maiestie and of other points of most importance that in a world can be found And bicause I am a catholike by profession and an Englishman by birth and education in respect of the former religion doth inioyne me to acknowledge to death an humble obedience to the one and onely tressacred apostolicall catholike Roman Church the See Apostolike and our mother Citie And hereupon I say with that reuerend prelate the last catholike Archbishop of Yorke that howsoeuer his holines hath beene heretofore or may be hereafter durus Pater vnto vs and our nation by inflicting excommunications or other ecclesiasticall censures vpon our prince countrie or our selues and thereby occasionating our heauier persecutions yet must we alwaies be dutifull children And againe in respect of the latter naturall loyaltie doth binde me to wish no longer to liue then vntill the swiftest flight of a thought shall crosse my dutifull obedience to my prince and countrie And vpon this ground doe I build firmely to death neuer to attempt by act word or consent any thing that may preiudice the one or the other and so keeping a golden meane betwixt the two extremes yeelding to Caesar that which is Caesars and vnto God that which is his owne I will now proceede to the effectuall points whereupon all true catholikes doe and ought to stand THE EIGHT GENERALL QVODLIBET OF PLOTS by statizing THE I. ARTICLE VVHether any ecclesiasticall person may or ought to deale in matters of state And if they may then whether any catholike priest may doe so on the behalfe of the catholike Roman Church or the English Bishops on the behalfe of the Church of England or Scots ministerie on the behalfe of the Church of Scotland or how and in what sort these doe differ from one another in freedome to deale in state affaires THE ANSWERE THat it is now and euer hath been lawfull for the clergie in generall to deale in state matters and affaires practise experience and consent of all persons nations times and ages doe approoue ratifie and confirme it not a legifer not a lawe not a parliament not an act enacted nor decree made without the Lords spirituall yea the word State it selfe when we talke of state affaires hath a relation to an ecclesiasticall state which being the first and principall of the two members in a bodie politicall once depriue the clergie of all dealings or medlings any manner of way in state matters and then repeale reuoke reuert all statute lawes and put out those words Lords spirituall for euer after the first most ancient and woorthily prime inuested Barons of this land as all Bishops of England are being these Lords spirituall or ecclesiasticall state Therefore can I not but often smile in my sleeue to heare and see the Iesuits coggery in euery thing and how that now of late it is blowne abroad amongst catholiks that the secular priests forsooth are become prophane lay persons in conuersation studying onely state matters and practizing with the ciuill magistrate in state affaires Vpon occasion of which speech a gentlewoman in a passage of these matters at her table saide to a secular priest my selfe being there present vnknowne and therfore freer to laugh as I did hartily to heare her nay my masters quoth she if you once become statesmen and haue dealings with the Lords of the Counsell or other ciuill magistrates then I haue done with you For I neuer could heare of anie Iesuit that did so As though there coulde be no dealings in matters of state but that the party must be accessary to an acte of treason and be holden for a statizer in a sense detestable Well let it passe for a Iesuiticall iangling and leauing the etymologie we will come to the common phrase and acceptance of this worde State and Statiste as they are now taken and thereby shall be seene ere this Quodlibet be ended whether the seculars or Iesuits are greater statists that is intermedlers in state affaires And for the time present I say as followeth In
such straite lawes were made for comming into England of Seminarie priests bringing in of Agnus Dei crosses medals graines c. reconcilement perswasions to the catholike faith and the like All which when I saw the bookes of the excommunication of her Maiestie by Pius Quintus diuers others tending to that purpose written since and withall had well considered what the Iesuits dealing had beene how that they had procured these indulgences pardons to serue their owne turne therewith I then wel perceiued vpon what grounds the said six articles were built And Master Bales a blessed martyr shall witnes with me at the latter day how woe my hart was vpon the last speech he and I had together in the house of an honorable person where we met about those and other matters my last words being these vnto him scil that his holines was misinformed and indirectly drawne to these courses by Iesuiticall meanes And therefore of all other orders of religion were I to goe into any I would neuer be Iesuit whiles I liued And this may suffice for the matter in question to conuince any catholikes true meaning hart that the circumstances well considered with all humble obedience to the See apostolike be it spoken there neither was due circumstances in the Bull of Pius Quintus to binde any to withdrawe their allegiance from our Soueraigne neither and much lesse was it conuenient that the same excommunication should haue beene renewed againe THE IX ARTICLE VVHether then seeing her Maiestie and the state knew such practises were by priests and other catholikes vsed and put in execution and yet were ignorant who were of that faction more one then an other till now of late that God hath most strangely and in very deed as it may he termed miraculously reuealed the truth which long hath beene hidden to discerne who are innocent and who free may not then her lawes and proceedings against all catholiks in generall from the beginning of her Highnesse raigne to this present discouery of the treasons and traitors that vrged it be truely counted both milde and mercifull And that howsoeuer of her owne accustomed innate royall disposition benignitie clemencie her Highnesse may and we shoulde wrong our owne conceits in preiudice of her sweete and Princely nature if we should not thinke she would now at length take pittie of such her owne catholike subiects as haue manifested their loyaltie innocencie and ignorance of what was intended against her royall person and state Yet whether in tendring the afflictions which the innocent both secular priests lay persons haue sustained by making such lawes or prouisoes and adding them to the lawes alreadie made as may free both the priests and those that receiue them from the paines and penalties before by statute enacted against them all in generall may not for all that the sayd former statutes penall lawes and actes enacted be thought to stande in force against the Iesuiticall faction and no reason or sense to haue them repealed but both to haue beene made with great moderation and also to stand and remaine with as great pollicie in all or any wisemans iudgement that shall duly consider the Iesuits practises and other her Highnes enimies against her person state and kingdome in the course precedent of all this time THE ANSWERE I Holde directly the affirmatiue part heerein scil that both her Maiesties lawes and proceedings against all sorts of catholikes haue bene milde and mercifull the opinion and iudgement of her Highnesse in religion one way and their foresaid practises against her another way duly considered and also that all the appellants and other priests and catholikes that ioyne with them in prosecuting that appeale as there is iust cause and many reasons which we doubt not of but that to her high prudence and Princely wisedome they will present themselues in laments submissions and teares on our behalfes and in pollicie mercy and iustice on the part of her Highnesse towards vs why some prouisoes should be made for securing of them the said appellants and their associates together with those that do or shall receiue them heereafter from danger of the foresaid penall lawes so haue they and we all that be catholikes in England this day as great motiues causes and reasons moouing vs to admire that euer any of vs are left on liue to make knowne to all posteritie what hath hapned in our daies the like woonders hauing neuer hitherto as yet beene seene as our wretched age hath left recorded to those shall follow vs by succeeding turnes of natures course to the worlds end And by consequent we cannot vrge an absolute repeale of any former statute or penall law so long as any Iesuit or other priest or lay person of their faction which I hope would be very few if any were after they were gone shall remaine within the land but thinke our selues happie and deepely bound to her Maiesty if a prouisoe onely may be made in forme aforesaid to keepe the innocent harmeles though with an other prouisoe also or stricter statute if stricter may be for the vtter expelling of all Iesuits out of the land And for to make this my opinion sinke the deeper into all catholikes heads and harts that either are infected with the Spanish pip or otherwise Iesuited in affection or faction I must and do craue pardon for enlarging my selfe a litle in handling this subiect to the purpose and agreeing to their capacitie Often haue many wise learned and prudent greatly mused what should haue beene the cause in morall sense to speake to men of the heauie and sore affliction of catholiks in England for many yeeres yea it hath beene thought of many great clerkes yet with pardon craued ignorant of our English cases as heereafter will appeere that the circumstances considered as the occurrents came to their minds that their persecution in the primitiue church was not greater if so great respecting the danger of soule-wracke then the persecution in England hath beene for these twenty yeeres space and vpward to wit since the infortunate arriuall of the Iesuits in this land The causes moouing many to admire thereat and in multitudes of vollees in morneful sighes and sorrowes hurled out with wailings one to another greeuing when wise deuout true compassionates of their countries miseries met together that for our owne and our forefathers sinnes so heauie a scourge shoulde be laid vpon our nation our deere countrymen our flesh and blood our neerest linckt vnto vs often times our greatest lothers Amongst others these were the causes of their woonder how it should be First they considered with how great a sympathie all concord naturall incline and reciprocall affection It is no maruell though the Iesuits be so egar of England as they are and that they hazard body soule and all they haue or can be able to make to haue it wholy theirs For considering the poore lodgings scarcity of victuals and vncomfortable trauell