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A13383 Of mariage and vviuing An excellent, pleasant, and philosophicall controuersie, betweene the two famous Tassi now liuing, the one Hercules the philosopher, the other, Torquato the poet. Done into English, by R.T. Gentleman.; Dello ammogliarsi piacevole. English Tasso, Ercole.; Tasso, Torquato, 1544-1595. aut; Tofte, Robert, 1561-1620. 1599 (1599) STC 23690; ESTC S118134 52,482 86

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it no misfortune but he is afflicted with all no daunger but hée is drowned in it no annoyance but he féeleth it no feare but he is scourged with it no crosse but he beares it no corsie but he tries it no mischance but moues him no heart-brerking but burnes him no disaster but distempers him no passion but pincheth him no anguish but doth oppresse him no miserie but doth molest him and to be bréefe no plague but doth punish him And therefore I conclude with a certaine anncient and graue wise man that to haue no children is a great good vnknowne and perhaps the very greatest which hapneth vnto any man whilst he liueth So as if we should graunt that for some other causes we ought to marrie yet for this one onely occasion are they to be hated and to be shunned of euery one of vs in séeing they are the causes of so many millions of euils which they bring forth into the world against vs by bringing forth such vnfortunate children vnto vs. But say that neither for those of their children neither for the discommodities and troubles which both through the one and the other we beare and suffer we should not abhorre and detest this subtill sex of deceitfull euill yet ought we so to do were it but onely for that they depriue vs of our owne swéete naturall fréedome and most pleasing libertie which as the Lawyers say whose knowledge is not without the grounds of reason we ought to prefere before our proper liues and so true and apparent is it that they robbe from vs the same as it should be but labour lost to proue it by Picus Mirandula he affirming that husbands no otherwise owe their bodies vnto their wiues then the soule doth it selfe vnto God or by Saint Paule affirming our Wiues to be mistresses ouer our bodies and not we our selues So that it were more superfluous and vaine to bring in our senses for proofe of the same when euery one that is so muffled and yoaked féeleth after a certaine manner that his hands are tied and his féete bound so as if a mans going bee taken away I thinke hee can stand but with little ease He that will not beléeue this is as bad as a pettie Hereticke if he but call to minde the picture of matrimonie it selfe as the most wise Egyptians drewe the same one while painting it as man that had both his handes and his féete manacled togither an other while representing it with such a plaine fashioned yoake as you tie horned Oxen with all which doubtlesse is a most manifest imprese or signe of bondage slauerie and continuall seruile drudging Besides is not that which we call Honour the chiefe and principall of all externall good things No doubt it is Why then by all reason we ought to conserue and preserue the same more then our owne libertie and liues Now he that shall except for the inward vertues of the minde venter as it were vpon a Mumchaunce with a false paire of Dice both the one and the other is not hee worthie to be quoted for a foole I know euery one will say he is And shall it not then be worse then grosse foolerie and selfe wild madnesse it selfe for any man to commit the trust and custodie of his honor vnto a woman worse then a weak vessell of brittle Glasse who with euerie little touch is so short héeld as she presently falleth and breaketh And so doth he whatsoeuer he be that entreth into this intricate Maze of mariage after the custome or rather to say more rightly after the sottish ignorance of this doting age which hath placed the Honour and the infamie of Man in the power of the dishonestie and blacke swanlike chastitie of his wife as if the vertue and vice of others should preuaile more and bée of more power in others then in our owne selues Let vs not then entertaine these venomous serpents in our bosomes for as long as we kéep what is our owne within our owne selues we shall not be in danger of loosing the same the exceeding greatnesse of which euill how mightie it is wee may gather from hence that the Almightie God himselfe placeth it in Deuteronomie amongst the cursings which hee allotteth vnto the transgressors of his comaundements To conclude if this which is now our disputation that is whether it be fit to take a wife or no was heretofore a question which so much troubled the Gentils that although almost for what small cause soeuer they might be deuorced from them they were doubtfull still what to do and could neuer as yet resolue vpon what to determine why should it not be a cleare and resolute case with vs not to marrie vnto whom it is not permitted for all their excéeding and gréeuous faultes they shall daily and that most wilfully commit to rid them away from vs as long as we shall liue But oh immortall God if it be a matter so plainely proued both by the counselles reasons and experience of the wisest and best men that euer liued amongst vs their drift and meaning herein being none other then to perswade vs for to withdraw our selues from such lettes as hinder vs from all humane felicitie by shunning this sorrie go merrie daunce of married mans round how much more ought we the rather to do the same being inuited hereunto by the example and perswasion of such as haue bene the choise vessels and elect oracles of the thrice sacred holy Ghost whose intentions haue béene onely to dehort and perswade vs from those that steale vs away entice vs from that which is diuine and eternall Let vs heare Salamon who by the gift of reuelation from aboue knew all the causes beings natures of euery thing and from whose stocke it pleased Christ our blessed Sauiour to descend who speaking of a Woman saith that he found her more bitter then death it selfe that she is the occasion Man rebelleth against God and counselleth vs not to liue or to conuerse with her because as from garments Mothes doo procéed so doth the iniustice of man from her which iniustice saith he is yet far better then the best workes that that iniurious sexe can doo Let vs reade Marke and Mathew the Euangelistes where Christ being demaunded if it were lawfull for one to repudiat and forsake his wife for any occasion whatsoeuer and he answering no except it were for adulterie which also is vnderstood onely by the separation of the bedde and by this you shall finde that from hence the Apostles gathered and concluded that it was best not to marrie at all Let vs looke into Saint Luke and we shall likewise sée our Sauiour himselfe animating men to learne and to relinquish these wiues we shall heare him say that we must néeds as it were hate them and that otherwise we cannot followe him neither rightly enioy him for we find that he that had taken a wife could not come vnto the holy
of the 7. wonders of the world So did Lucretia stab her selfe with a dagger and Portia killed her selfe with swallowing hote burning coles because their husbands might be thoroughly assured of their faith constācie And Ipsicratea like to a seruile slaue in humble sort bearing of a rūning Lackies weedes and port would be companion of the banishment and flight of Methridates as she had bin before copartner of his pompe and glory Neither haue only certaine particular women but whole troupes and bandes of them left behinde them most honourable examples of their feminine vertues as the wiues of the people called Tirrheni who exchaunged their garments with their husbands being in prison and condemned to die And the Saguntine women who ensued the men of Marsilia and in our dayes the Ladies Baptista surnamed Saluzza and Eleonora of Aragon were bright mirrors of matchlesse chastitie in the Court of the Duke of Ferrara and in that of Vrbino Isabella and Leonora Gonsaga personages of rare modestie I could recite diuers other examples as well of our owne Countrey as of such worthie women of France Spaine Germanie and England who haue so entierly affected their linkid Mates that not only they haue exposed themselues vnto diuers mortall perils for their sakes but haue also most willingly offered their dearest blood as sacrifice to die with them But who is hee that can rightly set down the numberlesse numbers of such stainlesse and immaculate swéet Ladies when there are so many to bewtifie the earth withall as there be stars inafrosty night to set out and adorn the heauens withall Neither were many of these renowmed alone but others also of whom there is no mention made in Histories All which cōcealed themselues for the nonce from fame her selfe althogh she hath hundreds of eyes toongs shadowing themselues with the vaile of shamefastnesse which is so pure cleare faire as it glistered only in the eyes of their husbands not being able to be discerned with the grosse eyes of any other man else And if it be true as it is written that in the skies there are certaine hidden signes besides such as are discerned by vs about which the Sun doth take his Circle and compasse so may the concealed vertues of Women be compared vnto these same as more glorious and excéeding farre the others although they display so many beames and brightnesse as no mortall creatures else can do the like In the Actiue life then which ought to be Noble and ●●lustrious Matrimony is not only a helpe and a st●●e a great easement and lightsomenesse vnto the same but it is a glorious ornament and an excéeding great credit neither in the life Contemplatiue doth it seeme that it bringeth any impediment at all as concerning Contemplation for it hindered not Pithagoras nor Socrates nor Crates at all being all thrée married men and such as liued alwaies with their Wiues and yet do I thinke that hardly can any bee named that euer studied more Philosophie then they But Crates certainly although he wanted both house and al other things necessarily belonging vnto house kéeping yet would he haue a wife and lacking a priuate place vnto which he might repose himselfe he poore man tooke vp his lodging and liued with her in the Porches of Athens But perhaps this kinde of Philosophie is too disagréeable and vnfit for a ciuill and orderly life being as it were bannished in disdaine not only from the Courts and Pallaces of Princes and Noble men but likewise from the learned Schooles and Academies also So that although it be a laudable course to marrie a Wife yet ought we to leaue her or to take her not only for her good or badde quallities as some haue affirmed but we must likewise haue regard vnto the riches or pouertie as well of the husband as of the wife for a man nobly borne should not by right match with a woman whom he cannot be able either by his owne proper goods or with such wealth as shee bringeth of her owne maintaine her like a Noble Gentlewoman whereby we finde that that saying of Philippides is verie prettie Thou hast quoth he vnto a friend of his married a rich Woman but yet ill fauoured and therefore shalt thou sléepe vnquietly though thou goe gallantly and fare daintely Nor lesse wittie then this was of Epicarmus who affirmeth that to take a Wife is no other manner of thing then to play at Dice and venter thy Fortune for if thou chaunce to light vpon one that is courteous and well qualified thou shalt bee blessed in thy marriage but if thou happen on one that is insolent and proude and that will neuer kéepe within doores thou then shalt haue not a wife but a most intolierable misfortune as long as euer thou liuest Let vs take them then hauing regarde as well vnto the vertues of the minde as vnto the beawties of the bodie and riches of Fortune and if we cannot make our choyce as we would and that we shrowdly doubt the worst why then let vs leaue them And yet would not I haue a man to mistrust ouermuch except vpon a good ground and sound cause For Mala mens malus animus An ill disposition breedeth an ill suspition And there are some that because in their youthes they haue played the wilde Coltes and gone astray into other folkes groundes therefore they thinke their Wiues will repaie them with the same money suffering their friends to take commons at their Tables which as it is vanitie to thinke so is it more follie to suspect and greatest foolishnesse of all to speake of the same But to returne where we left It séemeth vnto me verie difficult that this conclusion can hardly be brought to be counted as doubtfull by any sophisticall reasons By which also is concluded that a woman hath some vertue either as it is proper vnto her selfe as Aristotles opinion is or else as it is common as well to the man as to the woman as Plato most plainly setteth downe But yet which of these two questions we should determine vpon by Theologicall Doctrine the one of which as it were a Gimmall King dependeth vpon the other I minde not now to set downe or dispute of for so should I séeme to passe from one kinde vnto an other and from one Science vnto a nother and so ascending vp vnto Diuinitie I shall be as a straunger that scarce vnderstandeth the language of those that discourse with him and so in the ende not be able to set downe mine owne opinion vnto them But you Signior Hercules are most fortunate in this who with the orderly Rules of the right Tuscan spéech haue so aptly ioyned and vnited togither so fruitefull and so copious a knowledge of all things togither not a litle vnto your great commendation and praise And yet with your fauour I will speake a word or two as concerning this matter which when you shall so please you may at your leisure