necessarie to saluation not expressed in so manie wordes and syllables yet in full sense contained and to be plainlie concluded out of the holie scriptures and these we receiue to be of as great credit as anie thing that is expresselie contained in the scriptures The other kinde of traditions was rites and cerimonies which are not necessary to saluation but are in the Churches power to alter as it maie stand best with edification Among which S. Basill rehearseth some that long since are abolished as the rite of standing in praier one the Lords daie and betweene Easter and Whitsontid which of it selfe is a thing indifferent as also that manner of glorifying in which they said with the holy ghost whereas al the Church long since hath said neither in the holie Ghost nor with the holie Ghost but to the holie Ghost To beleeue that the holie Ghost is to be glorified equallie with the Father and the sonne it is necessarie to saluation but in what forme of wordes that shal be song in the Church it is indifferent and the later Church hath vsed her libertie herein to alter that forme which Saint Basill saith was deliuered by the Apostles themselues without writing By this I hope it is manifest what kinde of traditions are of equall force or authoritie with the scripture euen they which haue their ground in the scriptures and none other For as the same Basill affirmeth Euerie word or deede ought to be confirmed by testimonie of the holie Scriptures Againe For if all that is not of faith is sinne as the Apostle saith and faith is of hearing and hearing by the word of God whatsoeuer is beside the holie Scripture being not of faith is sinne Thus Basill whatsoeuer he speaketh of vnwritten traditions he meaneth not against the insufficiencie of the holie scriptures except you will saie he is contrarie to him-selfe in manie places beside these that I haue noted Tr. de vera piafide Epist. 80. in Reg. Breu. Inter. 1. 65. 68. de ornatu Monachi Your next testimonie is out of Eusebius lib. 1. Eu. Demonst. cap. 8. whole wordes you mangle after your manner leauing out at your pleasure more then you rehearse Eusebius hauing shewed the excellencie of Christ aboue Moses declareth also that there are two manners ofliuing in Christianitie the one of them that are strong and perfect the other of them that are subiect to manie infirmites and that whereas Moses did write in tables without life Christ hath written the perfect preceptes of the new Testament in liuing mindes his disciples following their Masters minde considering what Doctrine is meete for both sortes haue committed the one to writing as that which is necessarie to be kept of all the other they deliuered without writing to those that were able to receiue it wich haue excelled the common manner of men in knowledge in strength in abstinence c. And this is the meaning of Eusebius in that place not of anie traditions necessarie to saluation of euerie man which are not taught in the holy scriptures but of certaine precepts tending to perfection not enioyned to all but written in the heartes of some The third man is Epiphanius who you saie is more earnest then Eusebius writing against certaine heretikes called Apostolici which denied traditions as our Protestantes do Which is but a tale for they were more like to Popish monkes and friers then Protestantes For they professed to abstaine from marryage to poslesse nothing and such other superstitions they obserued But what saith Epiphanius for traditions He saith that we must vse tradition For all thinges can not be taken out of the scripture wherefore the holie Apostles deliuered somethings in the scriptures and something in tradition Mine answer to Epiphanius is the same that it was to Basilius Namelie that such things as were not expressed in plaine wordes in the scripture were approoued by tradition being neuertheles such thinges as were to be concluded necessarilie out of the scripture As in the question for which he alledgeth tradition it is manifest Tradiderunt c. the holie Apostles of God saith he haue deliuered vnto vs that it is sinne after virginitie decreed to be turned vnto marriage This the Papistes doubt not but that they are hable to prooue out of the scripture except where the Pope dispenseth And we acknowledge that where the vow was made a duisedly to a Godlie purpose and abilitie in the partie to performe it that it is sinne to breake it neither can the Pope dispense with it In the other place where he rehearseth manie examples of traditions he speaketh of rites and ceremonies as is before declared wherof manie are not obserued in the Popish Church neither is there anie of them necessarie to saluation But Epiphanius you saie prooueth it out of scripture 1. Cor. 11. 14. 15. vhere Saint Paulsaith as I deliuered vnto you And againe so I teach and so I haue deliuered vnto the Churches and If you holde fast except you haue beleeued in vaine To the first I answer that it prooueth no traditions necessarie to saluation which are not contained in the scriptures as is more manifest by the second and third text for where Saint Paul saith so I teach in all the Churches of God 1. Cor. 14. 33. he saith immediatelie before that God is not the God of sedition but of peace 1. Cor. 15. 1. 2. 3. the Apostle speaketh manifestlie of the doctrine of the resurrection wherof he him-selfe in that place writeth plentifullie and in manie other places of scripture the same article is taught moste expresselie You see therefore how substantiallie Epiphanius prooueth tradition vnwritten out of the scripture to be necessarie to saluation which is our question But with Epiphanius saie you ioyneth fullie and earnestlie Saint Chrysostome writing vpon these wordes of Saint Paul to the purpose Stand fast and holde traditions out of which cleere wordes Saint Chrysostome maketh this illation Hinc patet c. Hereof it is euident that the Apostles deliuered not all by epistle but manie thinges also without writing and those are as worthie credit as these Therefore we think the tradition of the Church to be worthie of credit it is a tradition seeke no more The sense of these wordes is that the Apostles in their preaching did expresse manie things more perticularly then in their epistles not that they preached anie thing necessarie to saluation but that the same was contained either in their epistles or in other bookes of the holie scripture And so I saie of the tradition of the Church which is a doctrine contained in the scriptures though not expressed in the same or in so manie wordes as the three persons and one God in trinitie and trinitie in vnitie to be worshipped c. is of equall credit with that which is expressed in the scriptures because the ground of our faith standeth not vppon the sound of wordes but vppon
to shewe me the first vser therof much lesse that it was euer controlled by any man that euer was counted Catholike it may be measured according to the necessitie of the time and so as the Church may be most edified FVLK I. The qualification that you now prescribe differeth not a litle from that seueritie of your former exacting of penance or at the least a counterpoise thereof to make pardons beneficiall That the decale of deuotion should make pardons more common in these latter times there is no reason but rather that pardons should cause deuotion to decaie For the nature of men is to be best affected to that which is moste easilie obteined and where there is hope of impunitie to be lesse carefull in offending But you would haue pardons seeme to be as olde as Gregorie the first by authoritie of Pantaleon a Lutheran who could not know what Gregorie did but by relation of other stories why doe you not therefore cite some auncient credible storie that iustifieth as much of Gregory For Pantaleon doth not aduouch what Gregorie did but what the late popish writers ascribe vnto him But though it be not auncient to graunt such pardons yet you saie it is cleare that the thing itselfe is lawfull although of this clearenes you haue as yet made no demonstration You saie further that no Protestant is able to shewe you the first vser thereof If that were true yet thereby pardons are neither prooued auncient nor lawfull But what if Gregorie were named For I will not name Boneface the eight seing you make challenge of Gregorie whome can you shewe that vsed to graunt such pardons before him Although in trueth you are not able to prooue that Gregorie graunted such pardons oranie Pope after him for 400. yeares Your third assertion that these manner of pardons were neuer controlled by any man that euer was accounted Catholike is a sophisticall caption and petition of the principle For manie are true Catholikes that are not so accounted and the Pope with his papists challenge to be accounted the onely Catholikes which of all other are the greatest heretikes ALLEN And thankes be giuen to God the effect of the loue of Indulgences and the contrarie issue of the contempt thereof doe well prooue the Churches good meaning therein For if you view both parties well you shall perceiue more profitable deuotion more Christian charitie more furtherance of common wealthes causes in that side that feareth paines for their sinnes with the Prophet Dauid euen after they be remitted and therefore seeke for all meanes moste humblie by mans ministerie to receiue mercie in one yeare you shall see in these deuoute persons more fruites of repentance then in a wholl old mans life can be found in all the other side that contemptuouslie disdaine or scornfullie deride the moste profitable vsage both of penance and pardons in Gods Church Therefore in so great proofe of the benefite that proceedeth from this kinde of remissions for so Alexander the third aboue foure hundereth yeares since termed Pardons vsed then to be giuen in dedication of Churches and vpon moste assured groundes that it well agreeth both with Gods worde and practise of the primitiue Church and neuer condemned of anie but of such as be themselues worthely condemned of other great heresies and errors the Magisirates will shew mercie still in Christes behalfe and all the holie Byshoppes succeeding lawfullie the Apostles of Christ will giue peace and benediction to such as humblie aske it at their handes and if the parties be worthie their peace by Christes promise shal rest vpon them if they either contemne it or be vnworthie of it then no harme done it will returne to the giuers againe FVLKE Although this argument of the effectes especialie when they are assigned to a wrong cause is no sufficient proofe of the lawfullnes of a thing where an euent is taken instead of an effect yet doe we vtterlie denie this assumpt that more profitable deuotion ' more Christian charitie more furtherance of common wealthes is in them that holde of pardōs then in them that vpon true confidence of Christs satisfaction doe despise them Let the experience of the six yeares of Kings Edwards reigne and the fiue and twentie yeares of her Maiesties moste Godlie and prosperous royall gouernment make triall decide the controuersie in the erection of of hospitalls prouiding for the poore setting vp of schooles and amplifying of the vniuersites relieuing of straungers redeeming of captiues such other workes of Christian charitie fruites of repentance in which although it must be cōfessed to our shame that we haue bene more slacke then our holy profession requireth yet will we giue ouer the aduantage offered of one yeare against fourescore and ten which is an olde mans age and ioyne issue vpon equall time of Queene Maries reigne or any other time of Poperie since pardons haue beene in price Prouided that the maintenance of superstition and Idolatrie in which the worlde hath alwaies beene mad be not accounted a Christian worke or fruite of repentance Ad hereunto that such workes as haue beene done by ours proceeded of a free loue to God and thankefullnes for his mercy not of a seruile feare or couetous desire of reward wherin mē shew the loue of themselues more thē the loue of god That Alexander the 3. who was somwhat aboue 400. yeares ago calleth pardōs vsed to be giuen in dedicatiō of churches remissions it prooueth no more the fulnes of thē then that it is not lawful for the pope to tread vpon the Emperors necke as the said Alexander did vpon the Emperor Frederike before the gate of S. Marks church at Venice But by the same rescript or de cretal epistle of Alexander the third in which mention is made of remissions it appeareth that such pardons were then but new come vp because the Archbishop of Canterburie could not resolue himselfe neither by his owne learning nor by the clergie of all Englands iudgement how farre they did extend therfore was faine to send to the Pope of Rome for the resolution It is in the decretals of Gregory in the title by you named cap 4. inscribed Arch episcopo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Quòd autem consisluisti vtrum remissiones quae siunt in dedicationibus Ecclesiarum aut conferentium ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 aliis prosint quà m his qui remittentib subsunt hoc volumus tuam fraternitatem senere quòd cùm à non suo indice 〈◊〉 nullus raleat vel absolui remissiones predict as illis prodesse 〈◊〉 modo 〈◊〉 quib vt prosint propris indices spiritualiter vel specialiter indulsirunt To the Archbishop of Canterburie Whereas thou didest aske me counsel whether remissions which be graunted in the dedication of Churches or to them that confer to the building of bridges doe profit any other then them which are vnder their iurisdiction that doe remit this we will thy brotherhoode to holde that where is
Secondlie he speaketh of the fourth daies or Wednesdaies fast to be appointed by the tradition of the Apostles which yet neuerthelesse the Romish Church doth not obserue Thirdlie that the Pente cosse or fiftie daies by the tradition of Apostles are exempted from the Fridaie fast which tradition is not kept in the Popes Church except you will saie that Pentecost is taken for whitson weeke and then the custome of the PopishChurch is directlie contrarie to the tradition of the Apostles for Wednesdaie and Fridaie that weeke are 〈◊〉 daies And as for the Wednesdaie fast as well as the Fridaie Epiphanius is so earnest that he addeth further Deinde verò st non de eodem argumento quartarum Prosabbatorum ijdem Apostoli in constitutione dixissent etiamaliter vndique demonstrare possemus Attamen de hoc exactè scribunt Assumpsit autem ecclesta in toto mundo assensus factus est c. And moreouer if the same Apostles in their constitutions had not spoken of the same argument of wednesdaies Fridaies we could otherwise throughly make proofe of it But they write exactly ofit and the Church hath taken it vp assent hath bin geuen in al the world You see he alledgeth not onely a decree of the Apostles but also the consent of all the world for the wednesdaie fast as well as the Fridaie fast So that if the Apostles tradition beside the scripture be necessarie for lent whie is it not also for wednesdaies fast And if wednesdaies faste is not necessarie no more is lent fast Further you affirme that Dionystus and Tertullian saie that praiers and oblations for the dead are traditions of the Apostles De Eccles. hier c. 7. de corona milit but Dionystus al beit we do not acknowledge him for a man of such antiquitie as the papists would obtrude him yet hath not any mention of traditions of the Apostles in that Chap ter touching praier for the dead but either of tradition in scripture orels at large endeuoring to prooue that he saith by scripture Tertullian in the place quoted speaketh onelie of oblations for the dead in that yearelie day which maie signifie thanksgiuing as pro nataliliis for their birth doth in in the verie same clause Not denying yet but Tertullian when he forsooke the Church and became a Montanist yealed to praier for the dead as a thing reuealed by the spirit aud new prophecie of Montanus Last of all you saie Saint Basill teacheth that the consecration of the fant before baptisme the exorcisme vpon those that are to be baptized their anointing with holie chrisme and diuerse like thinges are deliuered to vs by prescript of Christ and his Apostles lib. de spi. 5. cap. 27. Of consecration or blessing of the water to the holie vse of baptisme of those that are to be baptized there neede no tradition to be alledged the scripture is sufficient in the institution of baptisme whereby both the water and the perfon are dedicated to God aud his holie worke of regeneration The anointing with chrisme seemeth at the first to haue beene the signe of the giftes of the holie Ghost which were wont to be graunted with baptisme which though it had beene vfed by the Apostles in baptisme yet that particular grace being ceased which to signifie it was vsed it hath no longer anie profitable vse in the Church As for exorcisme vpon those that are to be baptized Is is your owne addition for Saint Basill hath it not But where you saie he hath diuers like thinges as deliuered by traditian it is verie true and among them this sor example that it is necessarie for the children of the Church to praie standing on the Lords daie But this necessitie euen in the popish Church is notacknowledged therefore whatsoeuer he saieth is a tradition of the Apostles is necessarieto be kept of all Christians although all the Church in his time beleeued it as that which Epiphanius reporteth of the wednesdaies fast before spoken of You demaund vpon what ground you shall discredit or reiect these traditions deliuered by such fathers cheife Doctors and pillers of the Church Euen by the same ground that you giue ouer other traditions deliuered by the same persones either because they are not true traditions or els because they are not necessarie for the Church albelt they were deliuered as no doubt some ceremoniall matters were euen by the Apostles them selues Your other reasons are friuolous That they were neerer the Apostles then we For the neerest and moste immediat successours to the Apostles Policarpus and Anicetus could not agree vpon the tradition of the Apostles one of them building vpon Iohn the other vpon Peter as is testified by Eusebius out of Irenaeus in the place before cited An other reason is that they were honest men and would not deceiue vs willinglie And so much we acknowledge yet might they be deceiued in ascribing the common practise of their time to Apostolike tradition and so deceiue vs vnwittinglie nor be controlled because the custome generall acceptation of that ceremonie restreined men Which things considered it is a great iniquitie as Master Charke saieth to adde traditions to the written word of God as if of it selfe it were not sufficient to instruct the Church in all thinges necessarie to saluation That which followeth of Doctor Fulkes handling the olde Fathers about traditions is answered by himselfe in his confutation of popish quarrells from pag. 55. to pag 61. After this you cite foure seuer all Doctors in defence of traditions vnwritten whereunto as some of auncient writers were too much inclined so haue you not so sure ground out of them for your popish traditions as you purpose And to beginne with Basill who by Apostolike traditiō defendeth the custome of the Church which was to sing Glorie be to the Father and to the sonne with the holie Ghost whereas the heretikes would haue it in the holie Ghost and cauilled that the other forme was not in the scriptures Saint Basil mainteineth it as agreeable to the scriptures by authoritie of auncient tradition although it were not expressed in so manie wordes in the scriptures as manie other thinges are which haue like force vnto pietie with those that are dilinered in expresse wordes as for example he alledgeth the confession of the faith in the 〈◊〉 which no man doubteth to be sufficientlie tanght in the scriptures although the verie wordes of our creed are not expressed in such for me As we rehearse our creede I omit 〈◊〉 things saieth he the verie confession of faith in which we beleeue in the father the sonne the holie Ghost in what scripture haue we it Againe And if they doe reiect the manner of glorifying of god as not written let them bring forth demonstration in writing of the confession of faith of other things that we rehearse By which it is manifest that the traditions he speaketh of are of two sortes the one
continueth for euer in the high ministerie and seruice of the Church Thus I saie doth he remit sinnes Hunt principem Saluatorem exaltauit dextra sua ad dandam poenitentiam Israeli remissionem peccatorum This our Prince and Sauiour hath God exalted with his right hand to giue penance and remission to Israell of all their sinnes This power hath our high priest de serued for his obedience therfore as he receiued it so he hath left it in his Church his owne holie wordes dot protest that same For vpon his power and sending which he did receiue of his father all the Priestes doe euerlastingly hold the right of al holy functions which ells but by Christes owne commission and sending they could neuer nor neuer durst haue practized so long FVLKE It were a more direct sequele for a Priest or Elder of the Church to maintaine and defend his power that he practizeth in preaching baptizing and remitting of sinnes by the calling of Christ who hath all power in heauen and in earth for otherwise it followeth not because Christ hath all power therefore man without calling and authoritie receiued from Christ maie execute anie part thereof But in your application where you saie that Christ pardoneth and enioineth pennance for mans sinnes in the ministerie of the Church I graunt he pardoneth where the power which he hath giuen to the Church is duelie executed But for enioining penance in that sense that papistes doe speake it which is a peece of satisfaction for mens sinnes you are neuer able to prooue that Christ either in his owne person enioyned anie or by meane or ministerie of anie man doth enioine such penance and therefore the text you cire Acts the 5. is wretchedlie writhen from the true meaning and falselie translated as I haue shewed before by testimonies of your owne translaters the English Rhemists who read it thus This Prince and sauiour God hath exalted with his right hand to giue repentance to Israell and remission of sins Where the text is so plaine of the 〈◊〉 conuersion of the Iewes vnto Christ that they were ashamed to turne the worde poenitentia as they doe moste commonlie penance by which they meane some workes of satisfaction which are enioined to them that commit sinne after baptisme As likewise Acts. II. where it is said God then to the Gentills hath giuen repentance vnto life Where by as good reason and in like sense you might saie that God hath giuen penance to the gentiles taking penance in your popsh meaning or els you haue greatlie abused the scripture to prooue that Christ enioineth penance by popish Priests by that saying of the Apostles Actes 5. whereby they meane that God hath exalted Christ to conuert the Israelites from Iudaisme to the Gospell and to giue them saluation in the free remission of sinnes which of it selfe excludeth all other satisfaction then such as Christ him-selfe hath made to answere the iustice of God whose obedience hauing satisfied for our disobedience vpon our true and vnfained repentance which will appeare by the fruites thereof we are receiued into fauour all our sinnes being freelie forgiuen for Iesus Christes sake ALLEN And whosoeuer seeth not how the power iurisdiction of so excellent actions passeth from God the Father to his onelie Sonne and from him againe to such as he hath sent and made the messengers of his blessed minde and disposers of mysteries he hath no feeling at al of the waies that he wrought for mans redemption he can not atteine to the intelligence of Christs vnction whereby he is made our head priest he in the middest of the glorious light of the Church can not beholde the practize of so he auenlie mysteries and therefore such things as he knoweth not he blasphemeth saith S. Iude. But to worke all in light and order I will build vpon the forsaid the intended conclusion that the a duersaries maie see and behold the force of our faith and the singular weaknes of their assertions I thus ioyne with them in arguments barelie and plainlie without couert That power and commission which was giuen to Christ by his heauenlie Father concerning remission or retaining of sinnes was giuen to the Apostles at his departure hence But Christ him selfe did truclie effectuallie and in proper forme of speach by his Fathers sending and and commission remit sinnes Ergo The ministers of Christ maie and doe truclie and perfectlie remit sinnes Or thus more briefilie As Christ was sent of his Father so are the Apostles sent by Christ But Christ was sent to forgiue sinnes Ergo the Apostles be fent to forgiue sinnes also The second part of the reasons which is that Christ had power of his Father to remit sinnes and was sent for the same purpose is sussicienlie prooued in the Chapter before The first part of the argument standeth vpon the sure ground of Christs owne wordes which be these Like as my Father sent me so I doe send you Which wordes were so plaine and so deepelie noted for this intent of Saint Chrysostome that with admiration of the dignitie and excellent calling of Priesthood he thus trimlie discourseth vpon them I will report his saying in Latin as Germanus Brixius hath translated it all that speaketh for that purpose hereafter shall be recited but now no more but this Quid hoc aliud esse dicas nisi omnium rerum coelestium potestatem illis à Deo esse concessam Ait enim Quorumcunque peccata retinueritis retenta sunt Quaenam obsecro potestas hac vna maior esse queat Pater omnifariam filio potestatem dedit caeterùm video ipsam eandem omnifariam potesiatem à Deo filio illis traditam Nam quasi iam in coelum translati ac supra humanam naturam positi atque nostris ab affectibus exempti sic illi ad principatum istum perducti sunt And in English thus it is What e's canst thou make of this or what lesse then that the power and iurisdiction of all heauenlie things is by God graunted vnto them for it is said whose sinnes soeuer you doe holde or reteine they be retained For Gods loue what power can be giuen in the world so great the Father bestowed all manner of power vpon his Sonne I finde the verie selfe same power of all thinges to be deliuered to the Apostles by God the Sonne For now as though they were al readie translated out of this life to heauen and there promoted aboue mans nature and discharged of all our feeble affections they are aduanced to the Princelie soueraigntie whereof we now haue said Thus farre Chrysostome So doth this worthie father helpe our cause and so doth he thinke of the excellent authority giuen by the father to his Sonne deriued from him to the ministers of his holy will testament in earth Whose iurisdiction so highlie holden so truely obteined so neerely ioyned vnto Christs honour and so dailie practized no
truelie forgiue sinnes it is graunted but not that they doe properlie forgiue sinnes beeing but Gods seruants appointed to declare his forgiuenes Secondly your Minor bringeth in a fourth tearme Claue non errante beside that it is ambiguous that you saie Gods pardon followeth the preists pardon for if by following you meane succeading later in time or depending vpon the priests pardon your Minor is false wtih Claue non errante if you meane as I haue explicated in your Maior the worde ensueth it is true Last of all your conclusion ioyneth not your two extreames together as it ought to doe but leaueth out the worde which is of most importance and question among vs namelie this tearme Properlie For you should couclude that Priestes doe truelie and properlie remit sinnes which in respect of the worde properlie is false But as you set it downe with the worde assuredlie it is graunted For we acknowledge that the lawfull minister elder or priest of the Church doth truelie and assuredlie remit sinnes but yet not properlie So you misse the cushion and make a shew in your Maior as though you would reason directlie but in your Minor you giue backe with Claue non errante in your conclusion you fly quite from the question Where you interpret your Minor so that God in the same instant forgiueth in heauen you rid vs of one doubt of the posteritie in time But where you saie out of Saint Hilarie that mans sentence shall be as a sentence preiudiciall to God in heauen you giue vs to vnderstand that Gods sentence dependeth vpon mans sentence which is horrible blasphemie neither doe I beleeue that you are able to shew any such saying of Saint Hilarie for out of the places before alledged there is no such thinge to be seene or gathered That the same power of remitting and reteining sinnes which was giuen to the Apostles was nor bestowed on them in respect of their priuate persons but as they were publike officers and that therefore the like authoritie is committed by Christes graunt to all Priestes of Christes Church whoe in this matter are the Apostles successours THE FIFT CHAP. IF I had here to doe onelie with the learned it were enough that is alreadie prooued for the power preheminence giuen to the Apostles in remission of sinnes thereupon to ground most assuredlie the like right in the same cause to perteine to all Bishoppes and priestes of Christes Church But we studie to helpe such as cannot by this so farre consider that the power giuen to his Apostles or to any of them is one eternall power not ceasing in their persons but during in their succession to the worlds ende For I haue my selfe met with many such as could be content as they saide to acknowledge vpon so plaine scripture the singular priuiledge giuen to the Apostles and thereupon if they might haue had an Apostle they would not haue sticked to haue made there confession and sute to him for the remission of their sinnes but because I had not the like wordes of Christ spoken to all priests particularlie they thought it was no reason that any such challenge should be made for them nor any such charge to be giuen to others to confesse their sinnes vnto them This simplicitie of the common sorte or rather this rude frowardnes rising vpon contempt and disobedience to Gods Church is mainteined euen of the more learned sort whoe haue charged them-selues in all behauiour to be so populare and so plausible that euen against knowne order of things they will drawe backe from the light of the trueth with the common rude and vnlearned reasons of the people For Iohn Caluine a man borne to sedition and the Churches calamitie mainteineth the madnes of the multitude by this reason The Apostles saith he had the holy ghost whereof our priests haue no warrant But enquire of them whether they haue the holie ghost if they saie yea demaund of them further whether the holie Ghost may erre if they confesse that the holy ghost can not erre then they prooue themselues not to haue the holie Ghost because it is well seene that they may erre and doe erre both in loosing and binding many otherwise then Gods sentence will allow But brieflie to satisfie all sides in this case I shall declare the like power to be left by Christes meaning to al Bispopes and priests no lesse then to the Apostles them-selues to whome Christ then presentlie spake that both the peoples lacke of vnderstanding may be corrected and the false and craftie conueiance of their captaine may be to his shame and the diuells plainlie disclosed FVLKE It seemeth that those which you met with which would not acknowledge the same power to be in the ministers of the Church that was in the Apostles concerning remitting of sinnes were some of your owne chickens whome ignorance the mother of Popish deuotion had blooded vp in such phantasticall and soolish errors But least you should seeme to fight onelie with the simple sorte you saie the same opinion is vpon popularitie and plausibilitie mainteined euen of the more learned sort yea of Iohn Caluine him-selfe but you dare not set downe where or in which of his writings lest your impudencie should be manifestlie conuinced In deede Instit. lib. 3. Cap. 4. Sect. 20. he denieth that ignorant Popish confessours or shrift priests haue the power of the keyes which are voide of the spirit of God that is of the giftes of the holie ghost that they may know who me to binde whome to loose but he acknowledgeth the power of remitting sinnes to be perpetuall in the true preachers and faithfull ministers of the Ghospell And therefore you take needelesse paines to prooue this matter against him vnles you will take vpon you to defend the ignorance of your priesthoode and answere the arguments that he bringeth against it ALLEN First this is plaine that whatsoeuer Christ after his resurrection or before did institute for the commoditie of the people and weale of the wholl Church that did not decaie in the persons of them to whome Christ presentlie spake the wordes for ells all sacraments had beene ended and all gouernment ceased at the death of them to whome in person that charge was first giuen by Christ. For example Christ in his institution of the holie Sacrament of the altar spake onelie to his twelue to those present persons he onelie said presently hoc facite do this yet in their persons the Church was so instructed and all priests so authorized that the same soueraigne worke hath vpon that warrant beene truelie practized of the Church and by vaine imitation followed by their aduersaries euen till this daie And in deede the verie wordes of the instruction did importe no lesse for it is said Mortem Domini annunciabitis donec 〈◊〉 You shall set forth Christes death till his comming which could not be if the ministerie had decayed with their persons to whome Christ
from the paine and from the fault some plenarie of al their sinnes some partial of part of their sins some for a number of daies some for many thousands of yeares which euery one that paieth mony for them shall haue the benefit of them or which he giueth to such an hospitall gylde or brotherhoode or to him which saith such a praier or goeth on such a pilgri mage such like wherunto may be added his dispensations absolutiós exemptions lycenses these are the popes pardons of which the controuersy is between vs of which he cānot prooue that there was either vse or approbation no not in the Church of Rome for a wholl 1000. yeares after Christ. And these when he hath saied as much as he hath learned to saie for them out of the decretalls Clementines and Extrauagants you shall finde to be by his their owne determination nothing ells but as they are called in Latine Bullae Bubles great in appeerance but altogether emptie and voide of profit The attention of the gentle reader I do likewise require beccause he may see what good occasion Luther had to seperate himselfe from the Popish Church as from the whore of Babylon which so obstinately defended such abhominable blasphemies which all wise and reasonable men haue either abhorred or as he confesseth beene offended at them And yet let the reader marke how boldlie he calleth this article of the popes pardons an article of Christian faith whereof the Church of god neuer heard for a thousand yeares more since Christs assension before the loosing of Satā out of the bottomles pit when Antichrist was bolde to set abroad al his impieties and to sit not in a mysterie of iniquitie but openlie in the sight of al men in the temple of God and to exalt him-selfe aboue all that is called God or worshiped ALLEN And to be plaine in the matter where sinceritie is moste required two causes mooued me to beleeue like and allow of the power of pardons and indulgencies long before I either knew the commodities of them or had sought out the ground and meaning of them The first was the Churches authoritie which I credited in all other articles before I knew any of them or could by reason or scripture mainteine them Whose iudgement to follow by my Christian profession in all other pointes and to forsake in this one of Popes pardons had beene meere follie and a signe of phantasticall choise of things indifferent which is the proper passion of heresie Neither did I then know that the Church of Christ had allowed such thinges because I had read the determination of any generall Councells or decrees of some chiefe gouernours of the saide Church touching such pardons or because I had by histories and note of diuerse ages seene the practize of the faithfull people herein by which waies her meaning of doubtfull things is most assuredlie knowne but onelie I deemed that the Church allowed them and misliked the contrarie because such as bare the name of Christian folke and Catholike did approoue them and sometimes lamented the lacke of them And surelie for an vnlearned man I count it the briefest rule in the worlde to keepe him selfe both in faith and conuersation euer with that companie which by the generall and common calling of the people be named Catholikes For that name kept Saint Augustine himselfe in the trueth and true Church much more it may doe the simple sorte who is not hable to stande with an heretike that will challenge the Church to himselfe by Sophisticall reasons from the Christians that for lacke of learning can not answere him Well this companie of Catholikes brought me to know the Church and my creede caused me to beleeue the Church no lesse concerning the Popes Pardons then any other article of our Christian profession which though it were not of like weight yet it was to me of like trueth and all in like vnknowne at that time FVLKE Your pretence of plainnes sinceritie is but craft and sub tiltie to deceiue the simple and ignorant that they might please themselues in their blindenes and by your example thinke themselues at ease in their ignorance For what reasonable man will be perswaded that you could beleeue like and allow that thing whereof you know no vse nor whence it came or what it meaned But here you shew what faith is accounted among the Papists a fond perswasion of any thing that is tolde them by their teachers although they neither knowe what commoditie it bringeth nor what ground of trueth it hath nor finallie what it meaneth But howsoeuer it was two causes mooued you whereof you professe that hearing of the worde of God was neither The first was the Churches authoritie which you credited in all other articles before you knew any of them or could by reason or scripture mainteine them So by your owne confession you did as many papists doe beleeue you knew not what which faith would neuer bring you to eternall life which consisteth in knowledge of God and Iesus Christ according to that which is writen that wee might beleeue and be saued But seeing you could neither by reason nor by scripture mainteine those articles to be true which you beleeued how could you be perswaded that this companie was the Church of Christ the piller of trueth rather then the Church of Antichrist the mother of heresies and errors For all swarmes of heretikes challenge vnto themselues the name of the Church and require credit to be giuen vnto them and the more heretikes the lesse care they haue to make any triall of their doctrine to be trueth what had you more to perswade your conscience that you were in the right waie then a lew or a Turke hath which crediteth the companie amongst whome he is bred and borne without examining by reason or the scripture whether those thinges which they teach them be the trueth or no But it had beene a signe of phantasticall choyce of thinges indifferent you saie which is the proper passion of heresie to follow the Churches iudgement in all other points and to forsake it in this one of Popes Pardons Where you saie the phantasticall choice of things indifferent is the proper passion of heresie I know not what you meane except you thinke that heretikes are deceiued onelie in the choise of thinges indifferent or that whosoeuer maketh some phantastical choise of thinges indifferent is an heretike neither of which opinions I trowe you are able to mainteine For though some heretikes make a phantasticall choise of thinges indifferent I suppose it is not proper onelie to heretikes for some schismatikes that be not heretikes make such a phantasticall choise and the phantastical choise of heretikes is most occupied about principall groundes and articles of faith not about thinges indifferent onelie Moreouer I would know whether you account the Popes pardons to be things indifferent or necessarie for the Church for if
man of sinne and euerlasting paine whome he also punished for the same sinne with temporal paine as a satisfaction to the iustice of God which none could satisfie in part or in wholl but he onelie by his obedience and suffering ALLEN And this iurisdiction and power of regiment he gaue to Peter principallie when he bestowed on him the keies of heauen vpon the rest of the Apostles with him the power of binding and loosing which is moste principallie and properlie meant of enioyning penance or punishing by sharpe discipline the sinners euill life either before they forgine his sinnes or afterward For as the place of the 20. of Saint Iohn properly concerneth the power of pardoning reteining or forgiuing penance for satisfaction in the sacrament by the right of Priesthoode receiued in their orders though it may somewhat concerne the iurisdiction of the high Magistrates also so the place of Saint Matthew rather perteineth to the chastisment of the wicked by the open discipline as they haue the regiment of al our affaires then it doth to the sacramentall remisstion or satisfaction enioyned For ligare there doth signifie some bond of punishment wherewith the partie is tied and charged for his correction and not onelie bonde of sinne wherewith the Church bindeth no man no more then God himselfe doth but euerie man onelie bindeth himselfe in his owne sinnes And the Church or her ministers doe properlie then binde when they punish by their iurisdiction the sinnes committed not for the damnation of them that did fall but for their correction and amendment And the plaine mention of excommunication which there is expressed to be giuen to the Apostles for the chastisment of such as by more gentle admonition will not amend nor obeie the Church doth prooue that to binde in that place namelie importeth power of punishment to be executed on the offenders which way of chastisment is an open exercise of discipline giuen to the Apostles to be vsed at their discretions for the edifiyng of Christs Church Therefore as to binde there is as well an act of the proper power of iurisdiction as it is a function of prie sthoode to be exercised in the sacrament of penance so to loose soluere in that place though it may signifie to remit sinnes in waie of sacramentall confession yet it is more aptlie correspondent so the words that went before of binding which was not sinne but the paine and punishment for sinne whereby it must needes fillow that as to binde doth fignifie to charge that penitent person with some temporall paine so to loose must also meane to dissolue the bande which before was laied on him for present correction FVLKE Christ gaue no more iurisdiction or power of regiment to Peter pricipallie when he bestowed the keies of the kingdome of heauen vpon him then vpon the rest of the Apostles vnto whome he gaue the like and equall power of binding and loosing of opening and shutting the kingdome of heauen as he did to Peter The same thing verilie saith Saint Cyprien were the rest of the Apostles that Peter was indued with the same fellowspip both of honour and of power That the power graunted in the 18. of Matthew pertaineth moste properlie and principallie to the chaistisment or reconcilement of open offendours by discipline the circumstance of place affordeth no lesse as the text Iohn the 20. ratifieth the effect of their message in them that imbrace or refuse the doctrine of the Gospell And that the gouernours of the Church haue power by excommunication to binde and by absolution to loose vpon good ground and cause in both cases you neede not halfe these wordes to prooue it for we doe acknowledge and practize no lesse in the Churches of Christ where we haue gouernement likewise that the Church hath authoritie for triall of the parties repentance to enioyne some exercise of humiliation and to release the same or part thereof beeing satisfied with the manifest signes of repentance and submission it is also out of controuersie But of your sacrament of penance or satisfaction for sinnes by either discipline established Matthew the eighteene or power of remission of sinnes graunted in the text Iohn the twentie we shall neuer be agreed vntill you can make plaine demonstration out of the holie scriptures that either God hath instituted the one or alloweth the other which you shall neuer be able to doe ALLEN For this is a rule moste certein that all the bandes which the Church laieth vpon any offender be medicinable if the partie list to take them and may be loosed by the same power of the Church by which they were bounde before And therefore euer as mention is made in scripture of binding or which is all one punishing of sinnes there is also mention of the like power of loosing for Christ would not giue power to the Church to binde or correct sinnes but much more he would haue the Church resemble himselfe being her head in mercie and therefore gaue her alwaies power to loose that kinde of punishment which shee by her ministers had bounde or inoyned before For these two actes beeing answerable in conference and contrarietie muste necessarilie follow ech other and properlie to the like power and prerogatiue Then the one beeing giuen to the Apostles euen out of the sacrament of penance the other muste needes also by the like right be receiued S. Ambrose rebuketh much the Nouatians because they would haue the Church enioyne penance but they liked not that he should mercifullie release the same againe nor the penitents sinnes neither Dominus saith he par ius soluendi esse 〈◊〉 ligandi qui vtrumque pari conditione permisit ergo qui soluendi ius non habet nec ligandi babes Our Lord would haue the right of losing binding to be like for equally he gaue the power of both Therfore whosoeuer hath not power to loose he hath no power to binde If anie man then list follow the Nouatians he maie holde at his pleasure that it preteineth to the Churches iurisdiction to binde that which she can not loose againe contrarie to Christes expresse graunt made vnto her first in the person of Peter and then in the right of all the Apostles to whome when he had promised as well the keies of order as iurisdiction he said vnto them whatsoeuer you shall binde in earth it shal be bound in heauen and whatsoeuer you loose in earth it shal be loosed in heauen first giuing them thereby authorititie to punish and then to pardon And therefore as the sacrament of penance wherein sinnes be released or retained was grounded vpon the wordes of Christ spoken to the Apostles after his resurrection whereof we talked so much in the former treatise so the power of giuing pardon or punishing out of the sacrament by the vertue of the iurisdiction as the Pope and other Bishoppes now doe and alwaies haue done is founded moste fast vpon this
of his open shewing which is not to be vnderstoode of some denne altogether sequestred from the conuersation of men as though he had lurked there like a beare and an hater of mankinde estranged from all humanitie as in latter times Eremites and such like men fained vnto them-selues superstitious seruice but he was brought vp vnder the discipline of his parents which dwelled in a place lying in an hillie region which was commonlie called the wildernesse as we also speake in our vulgare language To dwell by the forest Hercinia am hartzowonen that is to dwell in townes neere to the mountaines So afterward he baptizeth in the wildernesse that is in places neere Iordane where the mountaines are not farre of and yet euerie where there were townes and villages Thus it is plaine that the Centuriastes do vnderstand by the wildernesse not onelie a priuate life in his fathers house but also his dwelling in the wildernesse Except our answerer perhaps doth thinke that as soone as Iohn Baptist was circumcised he was cast out into a desert place and not nourished in his fathers house nor by them instructed in godlinesse The words of Lake are plaine Immediately after his circumcision The childe grew and was strengthened in spirit and was in the desert places vntill the daie of his open shewing vnto Israel by which desert places if he will vnderstand none other but a vaste wildernesse void of all conuersation of men he must needes place him there in his infancie by the text before he could go speake or helpe him-selfe anie more then a childe of eight daies olde Againe he must tel vs where this wildernesse was into which Iohn was so translated for the land of Israel as it had manie wilde and solitarie places as euerie countrie hath yet had it no such wildernesse as is imagined but that was inhabited with townes and villages and the groundes thereof occupied and frequented Finallie he is meanlie reade in the scriptures which knoweth not that the word desert often signifieth the countrie as it is opposite to the citie and frequence of men and not allwaie a barren forsaken land as the desert of Arabia through which the children of Israell passed from Egipt to Canaan Now touching his apparell how is it expounded by Protestants The answerers wordes are these And for his apparell saie they of Camells heare it was not strange apparel but vsuall to Mountain men that is vndulata saieth another water-chamlet handsome and decent albeit somewhat plentifull in that countrie For this is quoted Marlorate in cap. 3. Mat. Chytraeus in cap. 3. Math. The wordes of Marlorate are these Hoc Euangelista non memorat c. The Euangelist doth not rehearse this among his principall vertues that being addicted to a rude and austere forme oflife he auoided euen meane and vsuall neatnes but becawse he had said before that he was a man of the mountaines or wildernesse now he addeth that his victuals and his apparell was agreeable to his dwelling And this he reciteth not onelie that we maie know that he being content with rusticall victuals and apparell sought after no delicacie but that in this base and contemptible habit he was of great estimation euen among them that were delicate and gallant It satisficeth not the Papists that he vsed a garment of small price and great hardnesse except it were of a strange and disguised fashion such as no man vsed the like And therefore in stead of a garment made of Camells heare they cloth him in their Imagerie with a camells skinne halfe naked sometimes with the taile hanging betweene his leggs as Hercules in his Lyons skinne is pourtraicted of the gentiles although the expresse restimonies of the auncient writers are to the contrarie Therefore the Centuriasts write thus ofhis apparel to whome perhaps our answerer would be referred because his quotation is before c. Fuit vestitus victus ratio peculiaris His apparell and manner of liuing was peculiar which as in Prophets sometimes hath betokened the greatest matters so also in this Iohn his garment was wouen of camells heare Neither is it agreeable to trueth thatraw hydesweere so ioyned together as some thinke but he wore an vsuall kinde of garment such as they were clad in which dwelled in those hillie places namelie base and rusticall lest anie man should suspect that he desired the greatest honours or the life of noble men Againe Horridior quidem paulò c. His garment of Camells heare was somewhat rough but yet strong and durable You see these men acknowledge his garment to haue beene base rusticall and rough farre from the daintinesse and brauerie that is commonlie desired in apparell although they thinke it was vsuall vnto poore bowers of the countrie that dwelled in the desert mountaines where he had his abode But what is he that saith his garment was of water-chamlet handsome and decent albeit somewhat plentifull in that countrie Chytreus is noted on the 3. of Mathew whose wordes are these vestis Iohannis er at contexta ex pilis Cameli similis ei quam hodie vulgo à camelis vocamus Kamelet vel Shamlodt Latinè vndulatum Non fuit sordida vestis neque etiam valde pretiosa sed mediocris 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in iis locis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The garment of Iohn was wouen of camelsheares like vnto that which of camels we commonlie call chamlet in Latine vndulata It was no filthie garment nor againe veric precious but meane and decent and in those places easie to be gotten Let vs examine this saying which soundeth moste like to our answerers charge First he saith not simplie that it was water chamlet but like vnto that which is commonlie called chamlet because it is made of the same stuffe that is camels heare yet differing much in finenesse and price as hempen sackcloth differeth from silke sackcloth and yet is wouen like vnto it or as course cloth of towe differeth from fine holland and camebrike and yet is made of the same flax and wouen after the same manner For of the fine and soft heares of some called the wooll of camells is made fine chamlet grograine and such like of the course hard and bristelie heares is made a comse cloth like to the other but ofsmall price and for the vse of rusticall persons Such one meaneth Chytraeus that the garment of Saint Iohn was That he saith it was not a filthie or ill shapen garment but decent he speaketh it against the grosse deuise of the Papists which in their pictures do apparell the Baptist in a rawe camells skinne and that not shaped to couer his bodie but that his armes and his legs are bate Saint Hicrome in Marc. saith that by the camels heares the riches of the gentiles are signified Euthinius vpon Marke also saith that he was cloathed in camells heares non simpliciter incompositis not simplie disordered but wouen together which seemeth to
her not doth better Whereof we inferre that virginitie is more acceptable and meritorious before God then mariage although mariage be holie No saie our adversaries Saint Paull meaneth onelie that he doth better before men and in respect of worldlie commmodities but not before God If you aske him which of his aduersaries doe saie so he is not able to name one for in truth we neuer saide so not thinke so But that which he saith they doe infer vpon the text that virginitie is more meritorious before God the mariage we doe vtterlie denie and we saie furthet that all the Papists in the world shal neuer be able by lawfull and true arguments to infer so much vpon these wordes of the text or to iustifie this kinde of inferring virginitie is better before God ergo it is more meritorious for the antecedent which we graunt doth not prooue the conclusion which we denie Therefore when out of the circumstances of the text he prooueth that virginitie is better in respect of God as a more excellent gift of God he taketh more paines then he needeth For we confesse as much that he that ioyneth not his virgin doth better not onelie in respecte of worldlie commodities or before men but also that shee maie be holie before the Lord in bodie and spirit c. then he that ioyneth her in mariage but that he doth better in respect of merite reward in the life to come as the answerer saith it doth not follow thereof I meane for the merite As for the reward which God bestoweth of his meere mercie doth not prooue anie merite or desert of the partie rewarded For he which vseth the gift of God well by the power and strength which he hath of God shall of Gods goodnesse not misse of his reward but he cannot therebie claime reward of dutie or of merit neither doth the text alleadged by him prooue any such thing Some Eunuchs haue gelded them-selues for the kingdome of heauen therefore they haue deserued the kingdome of heauen therebie Such licentious kinde of inferring will not onelie make poperie to stand if it were lawfull but also might be able to iustifie all heresies that euer were by scripture But bring these illations or inferrings to the iudgement seate of Logicke and they will easilie appeare to be voluntarie glosles and not true expositions or necessarie collections Yet these new doctors saith our answerer doe contemne and 〈◊〉 all authoritie antiquitie wit learning sanctitie of our forefathers and of all men yea of their owne new doctors and masters when they come to be contrarie to any new deuise or later fansie of theirs Because we may not receiue euerie interpretation or opinion of euerie of the fathers he maketh this hideous outcrie against vs. And yet we are alwaies readie to shew and haue often performed the same that in the most and greatest controuersies the auncient Doctors are against them verie cleere on our side Therefore it is an impudent slaunder that we reiect or contemne all authoritie antiquitie witte c. of our forefathers as it is a ridiculous argument that he bringeth of our dissent from our late doctors and masters as he termeth them because we follow not the error of Luther about the reall presence and the vse of Images as for the number of the sacraments and bookes of the Bible we holde with Luther in his last iudgement when he was best instructed in those cases The order of seruice is free for euerie Church to vse diuerselie as maie serue best for edification The popish Churches haue diuers vses of seruice as Sarum Yorke Bangor Hereford in England they had how manie then diuers orders abroade But Caluine he saith is reiected about the head of the Church in England which is a manifest vntrueth for Caluin is euen of the same iudgement concerning the Princes authoritie in causes ouer persons Ecclesiasticall as is euident in his Institutions that we are in England onelie he misliked the terme supreme heade as offensiue though not euill as it was vnderstood of the godlie and that terme is forborne in England for the same cause and another of supreme gouernour vsed which signifyeth as much as was ment by the other when it was rightlie vnderstoode As for the gouernment of the Church in Geneua Caluine did neuer binde all other Churches to vse the same what other pointes are reiected in Beza he hath no leisure to tell vs. But that all the Churches of the Protestants as he calleth vs in Europe do agree in the chiefe and principall articles of Religion the Harmonie of their confessions latelie set forth in print doth giue ful moste sufficient testimonie Ceremonies and for me of externall gouernment were neuer in gods Church accounted necessarie to be all one in euerie particular Church And some men maie haue their priuat opinions sometime perhapes vntrue yet retaining the vnitie of faith in the chiefe grounds and foundation of Religion with them that dissent from them either iustlie or vniustlie Wherefore our answerers finall conclusion doth not followe that Protestants will haue onelie that to be taken for trueth which they last agree vpon and their wordes must be the one ie proofe thereof whereas the worlde can testifye that the holie scripture is our ground and from thence we challenge the best proofe not refusing any other lawful proofes that wil stand with the iudgement of holie scripture where it is most plaine and easie to be vnderstoode euen without anie interpretations The bookes of the scripture we receiue which the Church of God among the Iewes before Christ and the moste auncient Church of the Gentiles since Christ hath receiued and allowed the sense we take euen out of the same bookes and bring no foreine sense vnto them all writtings of men olde and new we examine according to the same praising God for such helpe as we haue by his giftes in them to vnderstand his word yet leauing to them without reproch such things as proceeded from them selues without the warrant of that worde and this haue all true Catholikes alwaies done and no heretike is able to doe albeit he woulde professe neuer so much to doe To the former slaunders our answerer will haue vs adioyne this that our aduersaries saith he notwithstanding all request sute offer or humble petition that we can make will come to no publike disputation or other indifferent and lawfull iudgement but doe persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer the same Touching anie lawful request sute or humble petition made in due manner to them that haue authoritie to graunt I neuer hard of anie onelie the seditious challenge of Campian is all the request sute offer and humble petition that he is able to prooue was euer made by them for anie such matter before the publishing of this answere of his As for them that persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer disputation which he calleth
of necessarie collection For Logicke would stil iudge whether such meaning could be necessarilie gathered out of such wordes Seeing we are not bound to creditte any writings since the diuine inspired scriptures but so farre as they agree with the scriptures and receiue the light of trueth from them But those auncient writers to whome he would haue vs to referre our selues liued so many hun dred yeares after the Apostles and Euangelists the writers of the new testament as they could no more declare to them then to vs their meaning in their writings and therefore those auncient fathers which ground purgatorie prayer to saintes sacrifice of the altar vse of the crosse c. beside tradition vpon the scriptures as the answerer saith must shew the necessarie collection of them by the iudgement of demonstration seeing they neuer sawe the writers neuer heard them speake nor possiblie could liuing so long after them or els they can carie no credit of necessarie collection outof the expresse wordes of holy scripture As for tradition without scripture since God hath giuen the holie scripture is as good as the credit of men may be without a warrant from God A fourth waie of triall of spirites with him is Councells by which olde heretikes haue beene tried and they are content to referre themselues to all the Christian Councells that euer haue beene since Christ died We acknowledge Christian councells to be a godlie meane to exa mine and trie the spirites but according to the scriptures onelie for matters of faith as in the example of the first Councell of Christendome Act. 15. where the question was determined by authoritie of the scriptures But that the Papists dare abide the triall by al Councells it is false for they admit none but by the Popes consent they admitte nothing in them but that the present Pope doth allow Many Councells in Aphrica forbad appellations to Rome the general Councell of Chalcedon made the Bishop of Constantinople of equal dignitie with the Bishop of Rome the Bishop of Constantinople condemned and accursed a Pope sor an heretike the Pope of that time confirmed it yet now it is not holden for Catholike But I will spare examples vntill this lustie gallant dare aduenture the triall whereof he maketh the challenge But seeing there are many points of controuersies betweene vs and the Papists which in no auncient councell came in question he bobs vs with the last most learned Godlie and generall Councell of Trent which was gathered of purpose for triall of hercticall spirites whereunto all safe conduct being offered we refused to come for triall As though the Catholikes would haue come to the Councell of Nice if nothing might haue beene therein determined but that which pleased Arius or to the Councell of Constantinople if nothing might haue beene concluded but that Macedonius would allow Or to the Councells of Ephesus and Chalcedon if when all had beene saide that which liked Nestorius and Eutiches must haue bene holden for Catholike Such is our case we accuse the Pope to be an heritike yea and to be Antichrist the Pope will admit no councell but where he him selfe is iudge nor any to haue any voice determinatiue but onely such as are sworne to maintaine his heresies and ambition It is great pitie but the Protestants must come to such a councell Such were many councells holden of olde time by heretikes but for the most part not frequented by the Catholikes Some of our profession were at Trent but what entertainement had they euen such as their aduersaries could afforde them they were not permitted to haue any speach but as pleased their enemies wherefore when they saw noe equitie vsed as they could looke for no better before they came they left the heretikes to consult among them-selues by example of auncient fathers in like Chapters of heretikes The sift waie of triall is to referre the matter to the olde Doctors which liued before the controuersies began of which we haue spoken latelie and this we haue often vsed and still vse against the Papists in most controuersies although the authoritie of man is no certaine rule to trie which is the truth of God Augustine against Iulian vsed this waie rightlie first confuting the Pelagians by the authoritie of the holie scripture and then by the testimonie of the auncient fathers also Theodosius also in a case determined by the holie scripture did politikelie circumuent the heretikes after the aduise of Sisinius the Nouatian by the suggestion of Nectarius the Catholike to put them to a foile which had good successe because the others cause was naught But Epiphanius hath a hard saying against vs as our answerer thinketh It is enough to say against all heresies the catholike church hath not taught this the holy fathers haue not admitted this But I wene Epiphanius doth not meane that it is enough to saie so except men can prooue it to be so For els it is aseasy for heretikes to saie so against Catholikes as for Catholikes against heretikes And here out answerer voucheth Epiphanius quoting onelie lib. 2. contra haere but no Chapter of so long a booke wherebie knowing him to be a common foyster we maie well suspect his honestie in this voucher vntill he shew vs in what Chapter we shall finde it The sixtwaie of triall with him is to consider which is the Catholike or vniuersall Church or great multitude of Christians out of which the other part first departed But to consider which is the Catholike or vniuersal Church is no waie of triall but the matter to be tried And the description that he maketh of the Church is as vncerten the great multitud of Christians out of which the other part first departed For the Catholike Church is not alwaies the greatest multitude When the East Church was deuided from the West the one was as great a multitude as the other yea considering the number of prouinces of the East and the largenesse of them it was the greater And one heresie some times departeth out of another as the Rogatians from the Donatists the Eunomians from the Arrians the Iacobites from the Eutichians c. Neither doth Saint Augustine against the Manichecs make the consent of people and the name of Catholike of them-selues to be a sufficient waie of trial but among many thinges which altogether held him beside the authoritie of the holie scriptures he accounteth these which with the truth are a good confirmation but can be no preiudice against the manifest truth as he confesseth in the same place To the iudgement of Vincentius we will subscribe to holde that which euerie where which alwaies which of all hath beene beleeued so hath no point of Poperie Hoc est etenim verè proprièque Catholicum quòd ipsa vis nominis ratioque declarat quod omnia verè vniuersaliter comprehendit For that is truelie and properlie Catholike saith Vincentius which thing the verie force and reason of the name declareth
see no reason to refuse it But if you will learne reason when it is shewed you maie see more then you do now Are your ancetors of the primitiue Church greater then Saint Paull Is there anie testimonié of man greater then the witnes of an Angell from heauen yet if Saint Paull him selfe or an Angell from heauen should preach an other Gospell then Saint Paull had preached and is contained in the holi scriptures that false Gospell were to be resused and the author thereof to be accursed Now that Saint Paull preached nothing beside the doctrine conteined in the scriptures he is a sufficient witnes himselfe Act. 26. 22. But why see you no reason to refuse such traditions so obtruded Forsooth because the same men that deliuered vnto you the scriptures and saide this is Gods writen worde and saide of other forged scriptures this is not Gods written worde the same deliuered to you these doctrines saying this is Gods wordes vnwritten So that by this reason you haue no other foundation of your faith but the testimonie of men who as they may speake the truth in one matter so they may lie or be deceiued in an other As euen by your owne reason the Grecians the Armenians the Georgians the Moscouites and all other sectaries are bound to beleeue all that to be the word of God vnwritten which the same men affirme to be such that deliuered the canonicall scriptures to them and said it was the word of God written But in steade of this vnsure and sandie ground the children of God haue a more firme rocke to builde their faith vpon namelie the spirit of trueth sealing in their heartes the testimonie of men concerning the truth of Gods worde written In which the same spirit also testifieth of the sufficiencie of the word written vnto saluation in such sort as if we receiue the word written for truth we must needs condemne for false what word soeuer speaketh either the contrarie or addeth any thing as wanting and not set forth in the word written And this I say not as though the primitiue Church or the godlie fathers of the same haue brought in any thing vnder the name of tradition of Christ or his Apostles as necessarie to saluation although some of them in matters of rites ceremonies haue alledged tradition beside the scriptures yet in such things as are now for the most part abolished either because they were not deliuered by the Apostles as it was pretended or els because such matters are mutable and not perpetuall though they were receiued from the Apostles But let vs examine the examples that you ioyne to your reason First Saint Augustine and Origen doe teach vs that baptizing of infantes is to be practized in the Church onelie by tradition of the Apostles For which you quote August lib. 10. ad gen lit cap. 23. Origen in cap. 6. Epist. ad Rom. What Saint Augustine saieth and how the baptisme of infantes is practized by authoritie of the scripture I haue shewed before sect 11. As for Origen in the place quoted hath neuer a word to any such matter But of these impudent allegations we haue had too many examples alreadie The second example is Saint Hierome and Epiphanius tell vs that the faste of the lent and oher the like is a tradition of the Apostles Hierom. Epist. 54. ad Marcella Epiphann Haer. 7. 5. Hieromes wordes are these against the Montanistes Nos vnam quadragesimam secundùm traditionem Apostolorum toto anno tempore nobis congruo ieiunamus 〈◊〉 tres in anno faciunt quadragesimas quasi tres passi sunt saluatores non quòd per totum annum excepta pentecoste ieiunare non liceat sed quòd aliud sit necessitate aliud voluntate munus offerre We fast one lent or fourtie daies according to the tradition of the Apostles in the wholl yeare in a time conuenient for vs they make three lentes or fourtie daies fast in a yeare as though three sauiours had sussered not but that it is lawfull all the yeare long except in the pentecostor fiftie daies but that it is one thing to offer a gift of necessitie an other thing to doe it of free will Here Hierome saith that one fourtie daies fast is of the tradition of the Apostles but other writers say otherwise For Damasus in his Pontificall saieth that Telesphorus Bishope of Roome did institute this seauen weekes faste before Easter Telesphorus him-selfe in his decretall Epistle saith that he and his fellow Bishoppes gathered in a Councell at Roome did ordeine this fourtie daies faste onelie for clerkes and contendeth in manie wordes that there must be a difference betweene clerkes and laie men as well in faste as in other thinges If you saie these authorities are counterfet 〈◊〉 as I thin 〈◊〉 you may truelie though you will not willinglie yet what saie you to 〈◊〉 an elder witnes then Hierome whoe testifieth out of yeares that two hundered 〈◊〉 before his time there was great controuersie betweene the next successours of the Apostles concerning the daie of the celebration of Easter and that the coutrouersie was not onelie of the daie but also of the fast some fasting one daie some two dates some more So that of the Apostles tradition we haue no certaintie in any monument of antiquitie Againe it is to be noted that Hierome holdeth it vnlawfull to faste betweene Easter and Whitesontyde which he calleth Peatecoste by the same tradition of the Apostles which yet in the Popish Church is not obserued at this daie for beside the fridaie fast they haue also the gang weeke fast in that time which in Saint Hieromes age was accounted vnlawfull to fast in Your other witnes Epiphanius speaketh not of your fourtie daies lent but of a shorter and yet a streighter For these are his wordes Aquo verò non assensum est in omnibus orbis terrarum regionibus quòd quarta prosabbato ieiunium est in Ecclesia ordinatum Siverò etiam oportet constitutionem Apostolorum proferre quomodo illic decreuerunt quarta prosabbato ieiunium per omnia excepta pentecoste de sex dieb paschatis quomodo praecipiunt nihil omnino accipere quà m panem salem aquam qualemque diem agere quomodo dimittere in illucescentem dominicam manifestum est And of whome is it not agreed in all regions of the world that one wednesdaie and fridaie fast is ordeined in the Church But if we must also bring forth the constitution of the Apostles how they haue there decreed one the wednesdaie and fridaie a fast thoroughout all except pentecost and of the six daies of Easter how they commaund to take nothing at all but bread and salte and water and how to spend the daie and how to giue ouer against the dawning of the Lords daie it is manifest Here he speaketh but ofsixe daies before Easter daie and of an other manner of diet then the Popish Church holdeth to be necessarie
that they are the twelue rocks or stones the foundation of the walles of the new Ierusalem Apoc. 21. 14. and the Church is builded vpon the foundation of all the Apostles Eph. 2. 20. Secondlie you saie the promis made to him Ioan. 1. Math. 16. was perfourmed no doubt after his resurrection when he committed to him the feeding of all his sheepe yong and olde Ioh. 21. 2. We graunt as much but that it doth exceedinglie import a wonderful incomparable soueraigntie and iurisdiction ouer mens soules greater or other then was equally graunted to the rest of the Apostles we see not how it can be inferred of anie scripture Euerie one of the Apostles being sent into all the world to teach all nations and to preach the Gospell to euerie creature hath as generall authority to feede the shepe of Christ both olde and yong as Peter Thirdlie you saie for a mortall man to receiue the keies of the kingdome of heauen and by them to binde and loose to lock out and let in before our Master Christ who had full iurisdiction therein it was neuer heard of But we read that the samekeies were committed to the scribes and Pharisees and teachers of the law which they did shamefullie abuse and therfore are threatned by our sauiour Christ woe be to you teachers of the law for you haue taken awaie the key of knowledge and neither you your selues do enter and you forbid them that would Woe be vnto you Scribes and Pharisees ye hypocrites for you shut vp the kingdome of heauen before men For neither you your selues do enter nor suffer those to enter that would enter Luk. 11. Mat. 23. here you note inthese places the key of knowledge by which the kingdome of heauen should haue beene opened taken awaie and the kingdome of heauen shut vp from them that gladlie would enter if they knew which way The keies in deede do signifie power and authoritie but that onelie Peter hath those keies and not the Church and euerie true Pastour of the same or that Peter by them had greater power and authoritie then the rest of the Apostles which had them also you shall neuer be hable to make demonstration Your remembrance serueth you well that all the olde writers do make no difference betweene the authoritie of Peter and the rest of the Apostles concerning the remitting of sins But you do forget that the power of bynding and loosing was by our sauiour Christ graunted equallie to all the Apostles and to their successours though it were once singularlie vttered to one The subtiltie of Origen to make a difference betweene binding and loosing in all the heauens and in one heauen onelie beside that it is vaine in it selfe yet is it not brought of Origen to dignifie Peter aboue all the Apostles whome both vpon the place of Mat. 16. and this also he confesseth to haue receiued equall power with Peter but to prefer Peter and such as Peter was before them that haue thrise reprehended offenders and beeing not heard haue bound the sinner vpon earth iudgeing him as an heathen or publicane whereof he inferreth Quanto melior fuerit qui ligat c how much better he is that bindeth by somuch he that is bound is bound more then in one heauen and how much better he is that looseth by so much he shall be more happie that is loosed for he is loosed in all the heauens The greater preheminence of rule and iurisdiction the fullnes of power and prerogatiue deriued from Peter as from a fountaine be matters of bolde assertion but void of all manner of proofe or demonstration ALLEN But we will not stand hereon now nor yet to put difference betwixt these wordes and tearmes loosing or remitting binding or retaining nor to dispute whether these two textes more properlie signifie the authoritie and iurisdiction giuen to the spiritual Magistrates for punishing by temporal pain enioyned and releasing by mercie as they see occasion the same appointed penance againe or els it properlie concerneth the verie release of sinne it selfe or retaining the sinne which they vpon iust causes will not forgiue These thinges would grow to ouer tedious a tale and ouercurious for the simple whome I would moste helpe in these matters and I shall briefllie touch so much hereof as is necessarie hereafter when I shall dispute of pardons For in deede these two textes of binding and loosing as well spoken to Peter as to the residue afterward shall be the ground of our wholl discourse there and therefore till then we must touch these textes no further but as in common pertaineth to remitting or retaining sinnes For they are brought indifferentlie of the holie fathers with the foresaid wordes of Saint Iohn in which as I haue declared the verie institution of penance and Priestes iudgement of our soules and sinnes be moste properlie grounded Theresore that by all these wordes so often vttered by our sauiour you maie well perceiue the verie literall and vudoubted meaning to be that Priestes haue authoritie by Christes warrant to remit and retaine sinnes I will recite one or two places of most auncient fathers that they ioyning with such plaine wordes of sundrie places of scripture maie make all most sure to such as can by anie reason be satisfied First Ialledge the saying of S. Maximus an olde author a blessed saint He doth by conference couple together these textes whereon we now stand thus hespeaketh verie pithely therefore you shal heare his owne words Ne qua vos fiatres de creditis Petro clauibus regni more nostrarum clauium cogitatio terrena promoueat Clauis caeli lingua est Petri quam singulorum meritae censendo Aposiolus vnicuique regnum coelorum aut claudit aut aperit Non est ergo clauis ista mortalis artificis aptata manu sed data à Christo potestas est iudicandi Denique ait eis quorum remiseritis peccata remissa erunt quorum detinueritis detenta erunt Thus he saith in our tongue Least anie earthlie cogitation mooue you to think of anie such materiall keies as we occupy in earth when you heare of committing the keies of the kingdome to Peter you must thus vnderstand that the key of heauen is Peters word or tongue because the Apostle weighing well euerie of our deserts openeth or shutteth to euery man the kingdome of Christ. This key therfore is not made by mortal mans hand but it is the power of iudgement giuen by Christ. To be briefe he saith to them al whose sins you shal forgiue they shal be forgiuē c. Thus saith Maximus ioyning together fitly two textes for one purpose out of both maketh a moste forcible argument that the iudgement of our soules which is a passing authoritie and the verie letting in and keeping out of heauen is addicted by the keies to Peters and the Apostles ministerie For which cause also S. Gregorie calleth all Christes Apostles and the iust occupiers
of their roomes the dores by which we must enter into heauē or euerlastingly byde out which is a feareful saying to al such as contemne their authority His wordes be these Quid cuncti Apostoli nisi sanctae Ecclesiae ostia existunt cùm eis dicitur Accipite spiritum sanctum quorum remiseritis peccata c. ac si illis apertè diceretur per vos ingrediuntur ad me hi quibus vos ipsi panditis repellentur quibus obseratis What are all the Apostles else but the dores of holie Church Seeing it is said of them take you the holie Ghost whose sinnes you doe forgiue they be forgiuen euen as though in plainer termes it had beene spoken thus by you all must enter that will come vnto me those I saie to whom you open the dore by loosing of thir sins and those that be put backe that you locke out Hitherto Saint Gregorie This wonderfull authoritie caused Saint Hilarie thus to make exclamatiō O holie most happie men for the desert of your faith you haue obtained the keies of heauen now the whole right both of binding loosing in heauen earth is assuredlie in you But that you maie fullie beholde their right herein consider his notable words vpon the alledged place of S. Matthew Ad terrororē metus maximi quo in praesens omnes continerentur immobile seueritatis Apostolicum iudicium praemisit vt quos in terrae ligauerint i. peccatorum nodis innexos reliquerint quos soluerint concessione scilicet veniae receperint in salutem in Apostolicae conditione sententiae in caelis quoque aut soulti sint aut ligati That is to saie To she terror and feare of all men and necessarie keeping of them in awe and disctplne Christ promised the immooueable iudgement of the Apostles seueritie that whomesoeuer they hound in earth that is to saie left fast tied in the bandes of sinnes and whome they loosed that is to witte by mercie receiued to the benefit of pardon that the same persons so bound or so released in the same case that the Apostles left them should be in the heauens either loose or fast Thus farre S. Hilarie by whome we euidentlie maie learne in what carefull case all men be that passe this life not loosed by them whose sentence in earth is so surely ratified in heauen aboue and no leesse how the wordes of Christ vttered sometimes in termes of binding loosing other times in remitting and retaining doe literallie signifie FVLKE If these two textes of binding and loosing shal be the ground of your whole discourse when you come to the popes pardons we maie see before hand vpon how feeble a ground you build For they beeing brought as you confesse indifferentlie of the holie Fathers with the other wordes vttered by Saint Iohn in which you saie the verie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of penance and Priests iudgement of our soules and sinnes be most properlie grounded do prooue that all Priestes haue equall power in giuing of pardons as they haue in remitting of sinnes When you conclude that by all these wordes so often vttered by our sa uiour we maie perceiue the verie litterall and vndoubted meaning to be that Priestes haue authoritie by Christes warrant effectuallie to remit and 〈◊〉 sinnes you ioyne together things that are of no necessary consequence and in this case are to be disioyned For we acknowledge that it is the vndoubted meaning of Christ that his ministers should haue authoritie effectuallie to remit or retaine sinnes But the verie literall meaning so you call the grammaticall sense is otherwise then you take it For in those two textes binding and loosing are plaine Metaphors as all men wil confesse that can put a difference betweene proper and figuratiue speaches And in the third of remitting or retaining either we must acknowledge a Metonymie or els the Proper office authoritie of God is made common to men The places of the auncient fathers that you cite make nothing at al to cleare the controuersie on your side namelie whether Priestes forgiue sins as properlie as God him selfe First the saying of Maximus or whosoeuer was author of that Homelie interpreting the keie of the kingdome of heauen to be Peters word or tongue doth signifie that by preaching he exreciseth that power of iudgement by which he openeth or shutteth the kingdome of heaué according as euery one receiueth or refuseth his Doctrine Againe comparing this power of iudgeing with the text of S. Iohn he declareth that Peters keie is common to him with all the Apostles and their successours S. Gregorie also comparing them to dores meaneth not to take anie thing from our sauiour Christ the onelie dore Also in the same place he sheweth in plaine words that they are dores to let in and keepe out by preaching Et quia Doctores sancti praedicatione quidem sequentibus 〈◊〉 sunt authoritate autem suaresistentibus clausi non immeritò ostia vocantur id est aperta conuersationi humilium clausa terroribus superborum Non immeritò ostia vocantur quia ingressum fidelibus aperiunt rursum sese perfidis ne ingrediantur opponunt Pensemus quale Ecclesie ostium extitit Petrus qui inuestigantem fidem Cornelium recepit pertio quaerentem miracula Simonem reppulit illi dicens In veritate comperi quoniam non est personarum acceptor Deus secreta regni benignè aperuit huic inquiens Pecunia tua tecum sit in perditionem per districtae damnationis sententiam celestis aulae aditum claudit And because holy teachers by preaching truelie are open to them that followe them and by their authoritie shut to them that resist they are not vnworthelie called dores that is open to the conuersation of the humble and shut to the terrours of the proude They are not vnworthely called dores because they do both open an entry vnto the faithsull and againe oppose them selues against the vnfaithfull that they should not enter Let vs consider what manner a dore of the Church Peter was which receiued Cornelius searching out the faith and kept out Simon seeking miracles for monie saying to the one Of a trueth I preceiue that God is not an acceptor of persons he gentlie opened the secretes of the kingdome saying to the other Thy monit with thee be vnto destruction by sentence of straight damnation he shut vp the entrie of the heauenlie court Then followe immediatlie the wordes by you cited Quid cuncti Apostolie c. whereby it is euident that Saint Gregories iudgement is that by preaching they remit or retaine sinnes as by the same they are dores of the Church The former place of Saint Hilarie is vnfaithfullie translated by you In neither is their anie admiration or exclamationi in his wordes in respect of their authoritie neither saith he that the whole right of binding and loosing is assuredlie in you I will recite his words whereby all men may see how bolde you are to
be found in the scripture it is most cleere that God forgiueth our sinnes otherwise then by externall orders or sacramets Againe the sacrament of Baptisme is a seale and assurance vnto vs of the forgiuenes of our sinnes not onely such as are com mitted before baptisme receiued but euen vnto our liues end whensoeuer we are truelie penitent for the same Also the sacrament of the Lords supper in which we are spirituallie fed with the bodie of Christ which was giuen for vs and with his blood which was shed for the remission of our sinnes is a sure pledge token and seale of the remission of our sinnes committed after baptisme that we neede not the Popish sacrament of pennance for the same ALLEN As for my selfe good Christian Reader I am not so free from sinne wo is me therefore nor so void of mans affection but as often I heare in the sacrament of penance the Priest who to me then is Christ in full power of pardoning saying the wordes of absolution ouer me me think truelie I heare the sweete voice of Christ saying with authoritie thy sinnes be forgiuen thee Whereof no mortallman shall euer forbid me to take hope and singular trust of remission of sinnes with the passing comfort that thereon ensueth All these that are without Christes folde seeke not to heare his voice for all their load of sinne from the heauenlie and intire ioy whereof they be as farre as from the conceiuing of of the felicitie to come in heauen it selfe But let them assure themselues that Christ writeth with his holie finger all their sinnes though to Christ they will not now confesse them whiles they refuse the power ofremission that he both had aud hath in earth to the worldes end without which outward solemne act of penance man should either dispaire of Gods mercie and liue in feare intollerable of euerlasting perishing which often fall to timerous consciences or els which is now of daies more common men would liue in such passing presumption and vaine securitie of heauen that they should neuer till the very last breath of their euill time either be sorie for sinne or seke to do any good worke at al. This time shall testifie with me herein and the verie diuersitie that is betweene these our corrupt conditions and the holy studies and endeauours of our forefathers shalltestifie but the daies that yet are to come must need most feele the smart of it when these that now haue the direction of other mens steppes shall be gone by whome for olde discipline wherein they were brought vp Some signes and remnantes of vertue be continued in the world For when they be spent and our yonkers that neuer heard of the Churches discipline but haue had their full swinge in sinne with the instruction of a most wanton doctrine shall be the principall of the people if this diuision so long continue which God forbid into what terms shal trueth and vertue be then brought Me think I see before hand the lamentable state of things and in a manner beholde the fruit of our onelie faith of this bolde presumption of Gods mercie of remouing the discipline of penance of refusing the onely ordinance of God for remission of our mortall sinnes Euil are we now but a thousand partes worsse shal they be then which in long nouseling in this naughtie learning of libertie shall be in perpetuall wo and haue no feele nor sense thereof And all this must needs follow vpon the lack of these outward acts external waies of pardoning punishing offences and intended either for mans present comfort and solace or els to keepe in awe the wantons of the world by the rodde of outward discipline which in the Church hath euer especiallie beene obserued in the sacrament of penance FVLKE When we heare the authorized embassadours and messengers of reconciliation pronounce in the name of Christ according to the scriptures and promises of God that our sinnes are forgiuen vs whensoeuer we be hartilie sorie truely penitent for the same we haue sufficient warrant out of Gods word to assure our selues of remission of them with inestimable ioy comfort of conscience But for the sacrament of penance or the Priest to be Christ vnto vs in fullpower of pardoning or to haue anie wordes of absolution said ouer vs because we haue no ground in Gods word whatsoeuer imaginarie pleasure you haue therein we finde nothing that is of force to staie a weake conscience to comfort a troubled spirit or to heale a broken heart To confesse our sinnes to Christ who onelie knoweth whether our repentance be vnfained God forbid that we should refuse But to confesse them to a Popish Priest or anie lawfull minister if they be secret there is no law or commaundement of God to require vs. If our conscience be not satisfied about anie offence that we haue committed how we should declare our vnfained conuersion or repentance we maie vse the aduise of the Godlie and learned pastor who is able out of the word of god toresolue our doubts and quiet our conscience That the want of Popish pennance will driue all men either to desperation or securitie and presumption it is affirmed without anie proofe God be praised experience cryeth out of the contrarie side But rather the doctrine of poperie concerning the pretensed sacrament of penance is manifest occasion of securitie in them that are carnallie minded of desperation in them that haue a tender conscience For the one thinketh he hath an easy remedy for his sinnes to discharge them into a priestes eare the other considering the impossibilitie of confession and vnsufficiency of the satisfaction that be parts of this counterfet sacrament can finde smal comfort in the priests absolution Your blasphemous rayling at the doctrine of God iustifying by faith onely which you cal the instruction of a most wanton doctrine and the naughtie learning of libertie is sufficiently confuted by the examples of many thousands of Gods Saints who acknowledging that they are iustified in the sight of God by faith onelie in the merites of Christ are more fruitfull in good workes then all the popish hypocrites in the world Where you terme your popish penance to be the onely ordinance of god for remission of our mortall sinnes you vtter not onelie a grosse contradiction of the trueth taught in the holie scriptures but also directlie contrarie to the doctrine of all Papists and euen of your selfe For what saie you M. Allen were you wel aduised when you said that penance is the onely ordinance of God for remission of our mortal sins If it be as you saie then the sacrifice of the masse is not the ordinance of God for remission of our mortall sinnes as al Papists beside you do holde and mantaine and extreame vnction wherof you haue latelie affir med the contrarie is not the ordinance of God for the remission of our mortall sinnes The discipline of the Church wherby wantons are kept in
in the sacrament of penance there is a power iudiciarie and therefore can not be practized lawfullie but vpon subiect persons and causes not exempted from their iudgement and excepted from their audience In which cases the persons of higher iurisdiction to whome by right and law the cognition of those reserued sinnes belong do sometimes vpon occasion giuen communicate their power to the said simple priestes and do license them to exercise their iurisdiction vpon persons and causes not properly pertaining vnto them as when the Popes Indulgence giueth the sinner leaue to choose his ghostlie father and by him that he maie be assoiled euen from such sinnes as be reserued to the supreame power of the Church In this matter also the Indulgence ioyneth with the ordinarie sacrament of penance and the minister receiueth iurisdiction by the Indulgence to heare and assoile the Penitent of such sinnes as before were not subiect to his peculiar regiment and therefore this is also called a pardon from sinne and the paine for sinne and a full remission FVLKE You haue hitherto held hard that neither the Pope nor anie Bishop can giue pardon of anie mortal sinne but by reseruation of cases it appeareth that the Pope challengeth this prerogatiue that he onelie may giue absolution and pardon in these greeuous crimes that be called cases papall and the Bishop in cases episcopall Now let vs see how this geare hangeth together The Pope hath this prerogatiue in respect of his high iurisdiction for in the sacramēt of penance euery priest by order as we heard before hath as much authority as he Then if these cases be reserued to the Popes iurisdiction this reseruation doth prooue that the Pope taketh vpon him to pardon the most greeuous sinnes by his iurisdiction onelie or els he deceaueth them that seeke for absolution of them at his hands And whereas you would cloake the matter by saying the Popes indulgence doth graunt that the priest in confession maie assoile a man from such sinnes as be reserued to the supreame power of the Church it is to no purpose For the Priest in this case is but the popes deputie to exercise the Popes iurisdiction as you saie as well vpon persons as causes not properlie pertaining to him but by the Popes license whereupon it followeth that the Pope may do in his owne person that which he doth by his deputie but by his deputie he taketh vpon him to remit most deadlie sinnes therefore the Pope taketh vpon him to remit deadlie sinnes by his iurisdiction onelie If you saie the absolution commeth from the sacrament and not from his iurisdiction then shew vs out of the scriptures how the Pope hath authoritie to restraine the grace of sacraments in respect of the person that ministreth them or els your reseruation of cases and exemption of persons will prooue no better then an Antichristian tyrannie For if Christ haue giuen power to euerie Priest to remitte all sinnes as you haue often affirmed vpon the text Ioh. 20. whose sinnes you remit c. what is he but Antichrist exalting himselfe aboue all that is called God which controlleth the liberall graunt of Christ exempting both persons and sinnes from their power without al ground or war rant of Gods word ALLEN That thou be not deceiued herein vnderstand good Reader that euerie Priest in his taking Orders and by Christes graunt hath full power to remit all sinnes and all men of their sinnes that be penitent and yet that this power can not be practized by the law of nature indifferentlie vpon all because this sacrament and none other is iudiciall and therfore profitablie can be extended no further but to them that be of their subiection and regiment Wheresoeuer the Priest consecrateth it is effectuall whomesoeuer he baptizeth he is lawfullie Christianed whomesoeuer the Bishop ordereth he standeth trulie ordered and so forth though they should not herein meddle in other mens cures without speciall licence sufferance or necessitie But no man can assoile anie person at all that is not subiect vnto him either ordinarilie or otherwise because it is an act of iurisdiction and therefore though his power of orders be in it selfe sufficient yet by that onelie he can not absolue anie man but in necessitie except he haue withall authoritie ouer the person and in that case wherein the penitent requireth his sentence which iurisdiction he maie haue either ordinarilie as vpon all those that be of his charge or els extraordinarilie by some special graunt of the superiour as Bishop or Pope as we maie see in the formes and course of Indulgencies diuers times And thus considering of the matter you see that the Popes pardons as they be onelie proper to the act of iurisdiction separated from the power of priesthood and sacramentall confession can not remit the sinnes them-selues neither damnation due for their reward though because licence commeth and proceedeth by them to the inferiour Priestes to remitte sinnes in all cases they maie be called as I said plenarie and most liberal graces and graunts to assoile man both from sinne and the punishment that is due therefore FVLKE You pretend as though you would render a reason why all Priestes haue not equall power ouer all men and to remit all sinnes and for the former you saie somewhat though not sufficient but for the later you saie nothing at all First you confesse that euerie Priest rightly ordered hath by Christes graunt power to remit all sinnes and all men of their sinnes that be penitent But this power can not be practized you say by the law of nature indifferentlie vpon all Then belike Christ hath graunted and they receiued an vnprofitable power for why haue they power to remitte all sinnes and al mens sinnes and yet maie practize the same but vpon some sinnes and some mens sinnes onelie In truth Christ hath giuen ful power to al his ministers according to the measure of euerie one of their charges the Apostles ouer al the world their successors the bishops pastors teachers within the compasse of their seuerall cures and therefore you saie well that God hath so ordered the case that no man maie intermedle in an others cure without licence sufferance or necessitie the Pope then doth wickedlie to exempt anie man from his laufull pastor to whome the charge of his soule is by Christ committed The reason you giue wherfore this power can not be practized vpon all is friuolous because this sacrament and none other is iudiciall For who will graunt you that the power of remitting sinnes in repentance is more iudiciall then in baptisme or in the Lordes supper For the minister ought to haue a iudgement whome he baptizeth and whome he admitteth vnto the Lords table If the children of Turks or Iews be offered to baptisme without the conuersion or consent of their parentes by what warrant shall he receiue them If Turkes Iewes or Gentiles that be of yeares of discretion offer them selues to baptisme