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friend_n church_n hold_v impugn_v 24 3 15.8299 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A92925 Schism dispach't or A rejoynder to the replies of Dr. Hammond and the Ld of Derry. Sergeant, John, 1622-1707. 1657 (1657) Wing S2590; Thomason E1555_1; ESTC R203538 464,677 720

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this_o present_a controversy_n as_o schismatical_a yet_o dr._n h's_o great_a reach_n of_o wit_n can_v by_o the_o way_n and_o within_o a_o parenthesis_n make_v such_o a_o dolt_n of_o s._n w._n his_o proof_n from_o my_o word_n be_v better_a than_o the_o supposition_n itself_o i_o say_v our_o church_n can_v cast_v they_o out_o and_o deny_v they_o communion_n if_o they_o be_v find_v to_o deserve_v it_o be_v then_o her_o subject_n and_o child_n actual_o they_o be_v under_o she_o at_o that_o time_n if_o then_o they_o can_v allege_v just_a that_o be_v evident_a reason_n why_o they_o think_v her_o government_n a_o usurpation_n than_o they_o do_v not_o deserve_v it_o and_o so_o she_o can_v not_o excommunicate_v they_o if_o they_o do_v not_o and_o yet_o will_v subtract_v themselves_o from_o her_o obedience_n than_o they_o deserve_v it_o and_o be_v just_o excommunicate_v can_v any_o man_n doubt_n of_o this_o or_o impose_v such_o a_o piece_n of_o know_a nonsense_n as_o his_o former_a deduction_n 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to_o be_v obey_v until_o it_o be_v disprove_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n over_o the_o pretend_a reformer_n this_o be_v acknowledge_v i_o ask_v what_o it_o be_v he_o except_v against_o that_o such_o a_o authority_n can_v not_o proceed_v against_o her_o esteem_a subject_n if_o they_o deserve_v it_o for_o this_o be_v all_o my_o word_n signify_v and_o be_v so_o plain_a of_o itself_o that_o no_o man_n that_o have_v any_o common_a sense_n can_v make_v difficulty_n of_o it_o he_o tell_v we_o p._n 19_o that_o the_o question_n be_v equal_o and_o indifferent_o whether_o they_o or_o the_o romanist_n be_v guilty_a of_o schism_n include_v also_o the_o remorseless_a governor_n in_o the_o romish_a see_n where_o he_o quite_o mistake_v the_o business_n his_o meaning_n as_o i_o perceive_v by_o his_o whole_a procedure_n and_o particular_o p._n 22._o where_o he_o say_v that_o the_o pope_n ought_v to_o clear_v his_o title_n to_o his_o pretend_a power_n be_v that_o we_o shall_v be_v mutual_o counter-opponent_n and_o counter-defendant_n and_o each_o produce_v proof_n ere_o we_o can_v claim_v any_o thing_n but_o he_o be_v in_o a_o great_a error_n we_o need_v no_o new_a proof_n to_o convince_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o our_o authority_n our_o plea_n be_v provide_v to_o our_o hand_n before_o they_o oppose_v we_o and_o start_v the_o question_n possession_n be_v all_o the_o proof_n we_o need_v bring_v and_o such_o a_o possession_n as_o have_v to_o strengthen_v it_o a_o universal_a belief_n that_o it_o come_v from_o christ_n time_n ground_v upon_o the_o certainty_n of_o oral_a tradition_n so_o that_o we_o make_v no_o question_n of_o it_o it_o be_v a_o point_n of_o our_o faith_n and_o therefore_o need_v produce_v no_o proof_n for_o our_o affirmative_a whereas_o they_o who_o first_o question_v this_o before-unquestionable_a and_o re●ected_v this_o before-received_n authority_n must_v bring_v reason_n why_o they_o do_v so_o and_o proof_n why_o they_o deem_v it_o usurp_v the_o question_n therefore_o in_o this_o pre●ent_a debate_n devolve_v to_o this_o whether_o the_o proof_n dr._n h._n produce_v be_v convince_o evident_a against_o a_o possession_n so_o qualify_v as_o be_v before_o declare_v if_o they_o fall_v short_a of_o that_o force_n eo_fw-la ipso_fw-la he_o and_o his_o friend_n be_v conclude_v schismatic_n for_o relinquish_a without_o just_a motive_n a_o authority_n who_o possession_n be_v just_o presumable_a to_o have_v come_v from_o christ_n if_o they_o be_v perfect_a evidence_n than_o they_o be_v excusable_a and_o in_o their_o excusableness_n be_v terminate_v the_o controversy_n in_o hand_n if_o we_o may_v trust_v the_o title_n of_o his_o book_n which_o be_v a_o defence_n against_o the_o exception_n of_o the_o romanist_n or_o his_o own_o state_v the_o question_n of_o schism_n p._n 11._o from_o which_o he_o here_o prevaricate_v p._n 19_o what_o follow_v further_o out_o of_o their_o excusableness_n against_o we_o that_o be_v whether_o we_o be_v unjust_a usuper_n tyrannical_a etc._n etc._n be_v another_o question_n for_o which_o sequel_n i_o will_v not_o contend_v with_o they_o if_o the_o premise_n can_v be_v possible_o evince_v however_o if_o we_o usurp_v it_o be_v not_o late_o but_o a_o thousand_o year_n ago_o but_o that_o our_o church_n shall_v in_o that_o case_n be_v schismatical_a as_o he_o here_o say_v that_o expression_n come_v out_o from_o the_o mouth_n and_o pen_n of_o his_o friend_n so_o weak_o and_o faint_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n and_o common_a language_n of_o mankind_n check_v they_o that_o the_o whole_a be_v not_o say_v to_o be_v break_v from_o a_o part_n but_o a_o part_n from_o the_o whole_a that_o he_o must_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o universal_a obligation_n of_o charity_n to_o pretend_v we_o such_o for_o we_o can_v never_o be_v ●hown_v even_o in_o his_o suppose_a case_n schismatical_a against_o government_n or_o unity_n in_o the_o church_n if_o no_o such_o unity_n can_v be_v find_v as_o it_o can_v in_o that_o mould_n he_o have_v cast_v christianity_n in_o by_o make_v each_o church_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d independent_a or_o self-governed_a since_o there_o can_v be_v no_o division_n make_v where_o the_o thing_n be_v already_o many_o after_o his_o pretend_a indifferency_n of_o the_o question_n he_o tell_v we_o that_o it_o must_v not_o be_v beg_v on_o either_o side_n and_o hereafter_o he_o complain_v of_o i_o grievous_o for_o the_o same_o fault_n i_o be_o sorry_a to_o see_v m._n h._n so_o ignorant_a in_o logic_n that_o he_o mistake_v the_o most_o ordinary_a thing_n in_o dispute_v let_v he_o know_v then_o that_o a_o defendant_n as_o a_o defendant_n can_v be_v say_v to_o beg_v the_o question_n since_o it_o be_v his_o office_n to_o hold_v his_o tenet_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n in_o controversy_n and_o stick_v close_o by_o it_o whatever_o prejudices_fw-la or_o impossibility_n be_v object_v to_o deny_v they_o consequent_a from_o it_o grant_v those_o thing_n which_o he_o take_v to_o be_v consistent_a with_o it_o deny_v those_o which_o he_o deem_v inconsistent_a unless_o it_o be_v a_o open_a evidence_n if_o a_o ambiguity_n occur_v to_o distinguish_v the_o double_a sense_n and_o show_v again_o which_o part_n of_o the_o distinction_n be_v consistent_a with_o it_o which_o otherwise_o in_o all_o which_o it_o be_v manifest_a he_o suppose_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o question_n and_o hold_v fast_o to_o it_o nor_o ought_v he_o let_v go_v that_o hold_n till_o he_o be_v nonplus_v and_o the_o dispute_n at_o a_o end_n my_o part_n then_o be_v the_o defendant_n as_o have_v be_v prove_v out_o of_o the_o ten_o ground_n the_o reader_n may_v see_v with_o how_o much_o logic_n d._n h._n complain_v of_o i_o all_o over_o for_o only_o hold_v my_o tenet_n which_o he_o call_v beg_v the_o question_n for_o however_o he_o may_v pretend_v to_o the_o name_n of_o a_o defender_n yet_o since_o his_o party_n begin_v first_o to_o oppose_v that_o be_v to_o object_n and_o argue_v against_o we_o who_o at_o 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flat_a schismatic_n but_o if_o you_o say_v it_o be_v the_o same_o you_o be_v reuince_v by_o the_o plain_a matter_n of_o fact_n nay_o by_o the_o most_o undeniable_a force_n of_o self-evident_a term_n since_o no_o first_o principle_n can_v be_v more_o clear_a than_o the_o leave_v to_o hold_v what_o your_o immediate_a forefather_n hold_v be_v not_o to_o continue_v to_o hold_v what_o be_v hold_v by_o the_o same_o forefather_n and_o that_o to_o disclaim_v their_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n be_v not_o to_o inherit_v it_o after_o he_o have_v tell_v we_o that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n both_o maintain_v this_o rule_n of_o faith_n that_o be_v indeed_o a_o different_a thing_n but_o the_o same_o word_n he_o immediate_o disgrace_v the_o say_a rule_n by_o add_v that_o the_o question_n only_o be_v who_o have_v change_v that_o doctrine_n or_o this_o discipline_n we_o or_o they_o the_o one_o by_o substraction_n the_o other_o by_o addition_n which_o be_v as_o 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with_o they_o that_o there_o be_v such_o a_o thing_n as_o god_n word_n though_o it_o be_v not_o in_o that_o creed_n how_o then_o follow_v it_o that_o they_o have_v change_v christ_n doctrine_n by_o addition_n who_o hold_v more_o point_n than_o be_v in_o that_o creed_n of_o the_o apostle_n may_v not_o we_o by_o the_o same_o logic_n accuse_v the_o church_n at_o the_o time_n of_o the_o nicene_n council_n who_o press_v the_o word_n consubstantial_a to_o distinguish_v catholic_n from_o arian_n nay_o may_v not_o we_o by_o the_o selfsame_a argument_n charge_v his_o own_o church_n for_o make_v &_o press_v the_o profession_n of_o their_o 39_o article_n in_o which_o be_v many_o thing_n as_o he_o well_o know_v not_o find_v nor_o pretend_v to_o be_v find_v in_o the_o apostle_n creed_n what_o a_o incomparable_a strain_n of_o weakness_n be_v it_o then_o to_o conclude_v we_o to_o have_v change_v christ_n doctrine_n by_o addition_n from_o our_o oblige_v to_o more_o point_n than_o be_v find_v in_o that_o creed_n whereas_o it_o be_v evident_a and_o acknowledge_v that_o very_o many_o point_n be_v hold_v ancient_o and_o ever_o which_o be_v not_o put_v there_o and_o what_o a_o self_n contradict_v absurdity_n be_v it_o to_o allege_v for_o a_o reason_n against_o we_o that_o which_o make_v much_o more_o against_o their_o own_o every_o way_n overthrow_v congregation_n it_o be_v then_o manifest_a that_o the_o apostle_n creed_n contain_v not_o all_o that_o be_v of_o faith_n it_o follow_v that_o it_o be_v not_o institute_v as_o such_o by_o they_o or_o receive_v as_o such_o by_o the_o ancient_a church_n let_v we_o see_v then_o to_o what_o end_v it_o serve_v and_o how_o it_o be_v use_v by_o they_o the_o ignorance_n whereof_o put_v the_o bp._n upon_o all_o this_o absurdity_n which_o he_o may_v partly_o have_v correct_v have_v he_o reflect_v on_o his_o own_o word_n baptismal_a profession_n it_o be_v prudence_n in_o a_o church_n and_o in_o any_o government_n whatever_o not_o to_o admit_v any_o to_o their_o communion_n or_o suffer_v they_o to_o live_v among_o they_o till_o they_o have_v sufficient_a cognizance_n that_o they_o be_v affect_v to_o they_o and_o not_o to_o their_o enemy_n party_n hence_o at_o their_o baptism_n the_o solemnity_n which_o admit_v person_n into_o the_o church_n they_o propose_v to_o they_o some_o such_o form_n of_o tenet_n which_o they_o therefore_o call_v a_o symbol_n or_o badge_n as_o may_v distinguish_v they_o from_o all_o the_o other_o sect_n rife_o at_o that_o time_n for_o some_o time_n the_o apostle_n creed_n be_v sufficient_a for_o that_o and_o to_o difference_n a_o christian_a from_o all_o other_o because_o at_o the_o time_n it_o be_v make_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o world_n be_v in_o a_o manner_n either_o pagan_n or_o jew_n afterward_o when_o other_o adversary_n of_o the_o church_n that_o be_v heretic_n arise_v against_o point_n not_o find_v in_o that_o creed_n it_o be_v necessary_a upon_o occasion_n to_o enlarge_v that_o profession_n of_o 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