To this M. Downam answereth not a word neither indeed could he for euery part and parcel is most euident and playne and therefore he was inforced to run to his old shift and to bring vs his wonted figure of petitio principij by which he desireth vs to graunt him his conclusion that the Pope is Antichrist without any further proofe But he must pardon vs because it importeth vs much to hould with Christ which we cannot see how we can possibly doe if we oppose our selues against his substitute and Vicegerent as though he were Antichrist as M. Downam would haue vs. To the third instance M. Downam answereth more formally denying that the Scripture speaketh of the carrying of this marke and the carrying of it indifferently either in the forehead or in the Antichrists Character may be caried either in the right hand or forehead hand But by M. Downams leaue the Scripture mentioneth both the forehead and the right hand that with disiunction that all must haue the marke in the one or in the other by which it is plaine that either of them will serue so that it is indifferent to Antichrist in which of them his marke be carryed so that it be carried in the one of them for that it must be carryed is euident by the Scripture euen according to M. Downams translation which is this That he may giue them a marke on their right hand or els on their foreheads For surely if he giue them a marke on either place they must carry it perforce Now as for his Mysticall interpretation that they shall receaue this marke on their forehead by profession or in the right This Character is not profession or practise hand by practize and operation first it is hard to vnderstand how profession is made with the forehead except there be some marke vpon the forehead and it will be no very easy matter for Antichrists Ministers to examine euery man that would 〈◊〉 or 〈…〉 practise and operation and finally those vactions which are assigned can hardly be drawne to either of these two heads if profession be taken properly for declaration by speach and practise for our owne actions and operations since they doe rather import a suffering and passiue receauing then any actiue operation in which notwithstanding they draw neerer to this marke which shal be giuen by Antichrist and receaued by all others and therefore neither profession not practise agreeth well to this M. Downam contradicteth himselfe marke Finally M. Downam seemeth to contradict himselfe for on the one side he will haue profession and practise to answere to the forehead and hand and consequently to be the marke and yet a little after he saith that the subiection it selfe is the marke which is not only contrary to the former but also foolish since that this subiection is the thing signified by the marke and not the marke it selfe For what wise man would euer say that subiectiō is a signe or marke but rather that other things are signes and markes of it as appeareth plainly to any that will consider the subiection of seruantes to their Maisters subiects to their Prince and of Christians to Christ and God c. To the fourth instance M. Downams answere is that Antichrist shall prohibite all Christians that haue not his marke to buy or sell c. but he will permit the Iewes c. But we find no such exceptiō in the Scripture which generally affirmeth that he shall not permit any little or great rich or poore free or bound vnder which diuisions no doubt not only the whole nation of the Iewes but euen euery particuler Iew is comprehended And besides we find no such rigour in the Pope towards M. Downams Christians for though that Bull of Martinus Quintus had ben generall for all The Bull of Martinus Quintus against the Hussites tymes and places as it was not yet doth it not exact that euery man should professe by word or worke his subiection to the Pope before he be admitted to buy or fell any thing at all especially such things as are necessary for daily sustenance but only excludeth all Hussites c. from all human conuersation when voility or decessity or some other lawfull circumstance doth not otherwise require which are openly manifestly and notoriously such which is farre lesse rigour then Antichrist shall vse and yet much more then we see vsed in many Countries now euen by Martinus Quintus his authority where Catholikes and Heretikes are permitted to liue peaceably togeather Yea euen in Italy Spayne Rome it selfe where they are most carefull to auoyd this contagion there is no such rigour vsed as M. Downam See part 2. cap. 8. §. 7. speaketh of the reason of which we shall afterward declare more at large But though all this be true yet we must not omit to obserue that Bellarmine in this instance only impugneth three of the markes which M. Downams brethren assigned viz. Chrisme the Oath of Fidelity and Preisthood All which three it is euident that not only all Iewes but likewise very many Christians yea Catholikes also haue not and yet are permitted to buy and sell neither are they once questioned withall about any of them All which M. Downam could not choose but see though because he could find no solution for Bellarmines instance thus lymited he thought best to runne to generalityes where he might roue a◠randome and make his Reader belieue that he had something to say though he saw himselfe that he could say nothing directly to the purpose M. Downam hauing this dispatched the first argument commeth to the second where first he affirmeth that though those things had bene vsed in the Catholike Church before the reuelation of Antichrist yet that hindereth not but that now they may appertayne to the marke of the beast because he doubteth not to affirme that there were many corruptions crept into the Church before the reuealing of Antichrist which he was to retayne with increase So that as you see the marke of Antichrist was in the world before himselfe yea in the Catholike Church which consequently must The Church of God cannot haue the marke of Antichrist needes belong to Antichrist and be a great freind of his as indeed she is to the Pope and euer was and wil be as to her chiefe Pastour vpon earth But how she should beare and vniuersally imbrace any marke or corruption of Antichrist seemeth as vnpossible as that Christ and Antichrist shall haue both one marke or one Church and therefore M. Downam must either perswade vs that euen from the Apostles tymes the Church of Christ bare Antichrists marke and consequently that he was then come or els he must graunt that his brethren haue not rightely assigned the markes of Antichrist but rather haue vttered an horrible M. Downams blasphemy blasphemy charging Christs Church and consequently Christ himselfe who teacheth his Church with the markes and
of Antichrist doe oppose themselues to the members of Christ contending which of them are to haue that appellation so Antichrist properlie taken shall striue with Christ whether of them is to be accounted trulie and properly Christ And when S. Iohn speaketh of such enemies as professe the name of the true Christ he meaneth only of Antichrists forerunners and members which are only the members of Antichrist and not properly Antichrist himself who notwithstanding at the first till he hath gotten credit authority will perhaps deale deceitfully but afterwards will plainely oppose himself to Christ as S. Matth. S. Paul S. Iohn also doe teach in the place which Bellarmine alleadgeth in which S. Iohn speaketh of an open professed enemy as is manifest And M. Downam should haue answered to that place directly and not haue run to others and so bouldly affirmed that S. Iohn speaketh only of hidden enemies against the expresse place which he was to answere To the third proofe he only answereth that if all Authours meane that Antichrist shal be such a false Christ as shall plainely and directly affirme himselfe to be Christ the only Messias then their affirmation Downam reiecteth all authors agreeth not with that Antichrist whome the Scriptures describe which is in effect to admit that all those authors are against him but that he vnderstandeth the Scripture better then they all only he vouchsafeth to answere in particuler to his good friend Henricus Stephanus saying that neither he nor any approued author denieth but that Antichrist may signify him who being an enemy of Christ professeth himself to be his Vicar Now you must suppose that no Authors are approued whome M. Downam mislikes and besides consider how any Author can take occasioÌ„ to deny that which they neuer heard brought in question and withall we are to note that may of M. Downams which only importeth that the name of Antichrist may be applied to his meÌ„bers but now our question is what is the proper signification of that word as it is vnderstood of the chiefe Antichrist himselfe and not of his members 5. To the assumption he answereth graunting it in all that the Pope confesseth of himselfe in word but in deedes he saith that the Pope in many things matcheth himself with Christ and in some thinges aduanceth himselfe aboue him which he saith that he hath proued els where which we are to examine in that place Now it is sufficient for vs that the Pope is See cap. 14. noe open enemy of Christ as Antichrist shal be For of this it followeth euidently that the Pope is not the chiefe Antichrist properly so called which is all that Bellarmine intendeth to proue in this place THE SECOND CHAPTER That Antichrist shal be a certaine determinate Man NOvv concerning the second saith Bellarmine we agree with our Aduersaries in one thing differ in another We agree in that that as the name of Christ is takeÌ„ in two sorts somtime properly for one excellent singular Christ who is Iesus Nazarenus somtime commonly for all those who haue likenesse with Christ in being annointed in which sort all Prophets Kings Priests are called Christs Psal 104. Touch not my Christs So also the name of Antichrist somtime is taken properly for one notable enemy of Christ of whome there is mention 2. Thess 2. Ioan. 5. and in other places and somtime commonly for all who in any sort impugne Christ For 1. Ioan. 2. we read You haue heard that Antichrist commeth and now many are become Antichrists That is yow haue heard that Antichrist shall come and now thought that singular Antichrist be not yet come yet many seducers are already come who also may be called Antichristes But we disagree of Antichrist properly so called whether he be one singular man For all Catholikes thinke so that Antichrist shal be one certaine man but all the heretikes before alleadged teach that Antichrist properly so called is not any singular person but a singular Throne or TyraÌ„nical Kingdome and Apostolicall seate of them who gouerne the Church The Magdeburgenses cent 1. lib. 2. c. 4. col 435. The Apostles teach say they that Antichrist shall not be only one person but an whole kingdome by false Doctors ruling in the temple of God that is in the Church of God in the great Citty that is in the Roman Citty gotten by the worke fraude and deceipt of the Diuell So they The like are in others before alleadged Their reasons are these First S. Paul 2. Thess 2. saith that already euen in his time Antichrist had begun to be in the world the mystery of iniquity doth worke now And notwithstanding he sayth in the same place that Antichrist shal be slaine by Christ in the end of the world From hence Beza concludeth thus vpon 2. Thess 2. They are manifestly deceaued whosoeuer thought that this was to be vnderstood of one Man vnlesse they giue me some one who may remaine aliue from Paules tyme vntill the day of Iudgement Soe also doth Caluin argue in the place which I cyted before This reason is confirmed out of S. Iohn who in the first Epistle and fourth Chapter saith Euery spirit that dissolueth Iesus is not of God and this is Antichrist of whome you haue heard that he commeth and now he is in the world Beza's second reason is because Daniel in his 7. Chapter by the particuler names of the beastes a Beare a Lion and a Leopard doth not vnderstand particuler Kings but seuerall Kingdomes one of which conteyneth many Kings therfore after the same manner Paul 2. Thess 2. who doth wonderfullie agree with Daniel by the man of sinne and sonne of perdition doth not vnderstand one particuler person but as it were a certayne body of many Tyrants The 3. reason is Caluins vpon the 2. Chap. of first Epistle of S. Iohn where he saith that they doe dote and willfullie erre who belieue that Antichrist shall be one man seeing that Paul 2. Thess 2. hath written that the Apostasy shall come and that Antichrist shal be the head of it For Apostasy is a certaine generall failing or defection froÌ„ the Faith which indeed maketh one body â—nd one Kingdome is not a matter of a few yeares that it can be accomplished vnder one King For all this the truth is that Antichrist shal be one particuler man which is proued out of all the Scriptures Fathers who treat of Antichrist The places of Scripture be fiue the first is in the Ghospell of S. Iohn cap. 5. I came in the name of my Father and you receaued me not if another come in his owne name him will you receaue Musculus Caluin in Marlor in Comment huius loci will haue these words to be vnderstood of false Prophets in generall and not of any one but their exposition is repugnant to the ancient Fathers and with the text it selfe For that these wordes are spoken of Antichrist do witnes S.
not to come so long as there is any Roman Emperour remayning how many Kinges soeuer besides come or go and they will likewise smile at M. Downams cunning which he vsed to bring in this returning Argument in that he putteth Bellarmins argument into a new forme and maketh him immediatly infer the not comming of Antichrist by the not comming of the Downam changeth Bellarmines argument 10. Kinges wheras he only proueth the vtter desolation of the Roman Empire by their comming and succeding in al the Dominions of that Empire finally som of his friends will wish that he had kept that diuersity of reading the Scripture some hauing after the Beast others with the Beast Apc. 17. 12. till it might haue stood him in better steed But yet you shall heare M. Downam dispute more deeply for hauing cited part of Bellarmines words he setteth downe his first answere in these wordes Answere 1. This argumentation of Bellarmine implieth a contradiction for if there be in Daniel described a succession of Kingdomes which shall continue to the end of the world wherof the Roman is the last then the Roman Empire shall not viterly be destroyed before the comming of Antichrist which goeth before the end of the world But what will you say M. Downam if the Roman Empire be not the last Kingdome which Daniel describeth Will you coÌ„fesse that it shal be destroyed before the comming of Antichrist as well as before the end of the world Doth not Bellarmyne vrge out of Daniel as the last succession ten Kinges signified by the ten toes and the ten Downam forgetteth what he impugneth hornes Is not all this disputation about them Are you growne into that heate of passion that you forget what you impugne Surely theÌ„ it is time for you to dispute no longer and if you will needes be doing at leastwise take heed of these returning arguments Thirdly M. DownaÌ„ confessing that he leaueth the coÌ„mon opinion and followeth another of the learned especially of these later times affirmeth that the 4. Kingdome mentioned in those Chapters of Daniel is that Kingdome of the Seleucidae Lagida which tyrannized ouer the people of Iury the former being Kings of Syria the later of Egypt but this he proueth not any otherwise but by a bare repetitioÌ„ of the same assertion though he beginneth with a For as though he would haue said something but we are coÌ„tent to think that he hath somwhat in store for hereafter since he promiseth that hereafter this shal be shewed to be most true only in the meane time he must giue vs leaue to hold the coÌ„mon opinioÌ„ till we know who See Chap. 16. these learned men be that durst inuent a new particuler opinion except they can proue it most clearly as M. DownaÌ„ saith and we will belieue wheÌ„ we see it for now it seemeth very probable that those iron leggs signify the Roman Empire as well for their length as Bellarmine well noted M. DownaÌ„ negligently if not craftily omitted in the allegâ—tion of his wordes putting in an c. when he came to that place as also for their strength in which the 4. Beast also excelleth The Roman Empire signifyed by the 2. iron leggs of Nabucodonozors statua the 4. beast Dan. 7. as the Prophet himselfe expresseth Quomodo ferruÌ„comminuit domat omnia sic coÌ„minuet conteret omnia haec As iron breaketh and tameth all thinges so shall that kingdome breake and teare in peeces all these former kingdomes neither would I haue the Reader deceaued with the opposition of learned to common which he findeth made by M. Downam by thinking that he meant that the ancient opinion was houlden only by the common sort of people for no doubt he will acknowledg Bellarmine to be as learned as him selfe no disprayse to him who is the only learned man that yet he expresseth to hould this new opinion and besides he will not easily condemne S. Irenaeus whom Bellarmine cyteth for vnlearned and yet his once not vouch safing to name him may make some doubtfull and therefore I will adde S. Hierome whome no man but an ignorant will accompte vnlearned He therfore vpon this verie place Daniel 2. saith RegnuÌ„ quartum perspicuè pertinet ad Romanos The 4. Kingdome perspicuously beloÌ„geth to the RomaÌ„s cap. 7. QuartuÌ„ quod nunc orbem tenet terrarum ImperiuÌ„ RomanoruÌ„ est The fourth which now possesseth the world is the Empire of the Romans Thus much for the fourth Beast and Iron leggs But now concerning the ten toes and ten hornes M. Downams learned opinion is that by them were signified the ten Kinges of the two foresaid Kingdomes which successiuelie vsurped dominion ouer the Iewes but for his proofes and authors By the 10. toes of Nabuchodonozors Statua the 10. hornes of the 4. beast Dan. 7. are signified the ten Kinges which shall deuide the Roman Empire among them he remitteth vs to heereafter as in the former and soe wee must be content to expect his leasure neither will we do him that iniury to accompt Porphyrius against whom S. Hierome writeth cap. 7. to be one of his great learned men though his opinion be somewhat like for by the 4. Beast he vnderstaÌ„deth not the RomaÌ„ Empire but Alexander the great his 4. successors and afterward for the ten hornes reckoneth vp ten Kinges till Antiochus syrnamed Epiphanes which ruled in Macedonia Syria Asia Egypt and all this to the end that those wordes osloquens ingentia might be thought to be spoken of Antiochus and not of Antichrist But howsoeuer M. Downam wil be ashamed to partake with this Apostata yet am I sorie that he commeth so neere and must be inforced to oppose himselfe not onlie against S. Hierome but also against all Ecclesiasticall writers till his tyme for so he affirmeth Dicamus quod omnes Scriptores Ecclesiastici tradiderunt in consummatione mundi quando regnum destruendum est Romanorum decem futuros Reges qui orbem Romanum interse diuidant vndecimum surrecturuÌ„ c. Let vs say that which all Ecclesiasticall Downam ioyneth with Porphyry an Apostata against all Ecclesiasticall writers writers haue deliuered vnto vs that in the end of the world when the Roman Kingdome is to be destroyed there shal be ten Kinges who shall deuide the RomaÌ„ world among them that there shall arise an eleuenth little King c. But if M. Downam wil be so mad as to oppose himselfe to them all surelie we haue no reason to follow him but rather to endeauour to recall him as we hartilie wish we might Finallie M. Downam is content to suppose that Daniel had spoken in those places of the Roman Empire and then he will haue the 10. hornes and 10. toes to signifie the seuerall Kinges of that kingdome which euasion verie worthilie he confirmeth by the example of the Seleucidae Lagidae their Kingdomes and Kinges which were not all one and
holy and most learned could yet performe that is to vnderstand and teach the Psalter in all thinges with the true and lawfull sense It is sufficient to haue vnderstood some and those in part the spirit hath reserued many thinges to himselfe that he may alway haue vs his schollers many thinges be only sheweth to intice many thinges be deliuereth to mooue our affections And after I know that he is most impudently rath who dareth professe that one booke of the Scripture is vnderstood by him in all parts Also did not the same Luther in lib. de Concilijs Ecclesia pag. 52. openly confesse that he had sought with great sweate the true and proper sense of the Scripture Finally so many Translations of the Scripture so many expositions so many most diuers sectes among our aduersaries what other do they proclay me then that the Scripture is ambiguous and obscure Illyricus Thirdly Daniel saith that he Antichrist shall haue prosporous successe vntill the anger of God be ended The Pope hath oppressed as he desired by his tyranny and impiety both many common wealths and also innumerable Churches Bellarmine And with what reason or by what author do you proue this Can you tell what Common Welthes what Churches the Bishop of Rome hath oppressed what if we coÌ„trarywise demonstrate that the note altogeather opposite to this third note of Antichrist agreeth to the Pope for from that tyme at which in your opinion the Pope began to be Antichrist his Kingdome hath not only increased but hath alway more and more decreased In the time of S. Leo the Great that is 150. yeares before Antichrist was borne in your opinion the Pope of Rome had more Nations vnder him then the boundes of the Roman Empire extended to For so writeth the same S. Leo serm 1. de natal Apost Thou being made ô Rome the head of the world by the holy Seat of S. Peter rulest more largely by diuine Religion then by earthly domination for although increased with many victories thou hast extended the right of the Empire by Land and by Sea yet that is lesse which warlike labour hath subdued vnto thee then that which Christian peace hath subiected And S. Prosper lib. de ingratis Sedes Roma Petri quae Pastoralis honoris Facta caput mundi quidquid non possidet armiâ— Relligione tenet But afterward Antichrist reigning as you affirme by little and little the Roman Sea hath lost almost all Affrick the greatest part of Asia all Greece and in our tymes in which you crie out that Antichrist rageth most of all all things haue succeeded so prosperously that it hath lost a great part of Germany Sâ—â—tia Gâ—thia Nerutgia all Denmark a good part of England France Heluetia Polâ—nia Bohemia and Paâ—â—â—nia Wherefore if to haue prosperous successe be a note of Antichrist not the Pope who hath ben depriued of so many Prouinces but Luther who by preaching carnall liberty hath seduced so many people and hath proceeded with such prosperity that of a priuate Monke he is become the Prophet of all Germany and as it were a certaine Pope may deseruedly be called Antichrist but go forward Illyricus Fourthly Daniel saith that he will not care for the God of his Fathers that this is truly said of the Pope we cleerely proued before in the place of Iohn Bellarmine And we reproued the same more cleerely in the same place wherefore go forward to other Illyricus Fiftly he saith that he will not care for the loue of women which the Pope hath done both by commaunding his followers continency as also by his Sodomiticall lustes Bellarmine Heere I omit to speake of your rashnes with which you dare say any thing little weighing in the meane tyme whether those thinges which you say can be proued or not That I will not omit that the wordes of Daniel although in the greeke text they signifie so as you say notwithstanding out of the hebrew Fountayne they are translated by S. Hierome into the quite contrary sense for thus he translateth And he shal be in the concupiscence of women And although the Hebrew wordes Ve gal kemdath nasiâ— only signify In the concupiscence of women and haue not any word a lioyned by which it may be vnderstood whether Antichrist shal be or not in the concupiscences of women Notwithstanding there are two coniectures which make the translation of S. Hierome the more probable The one because it is manifest that Antiochus of whom litterally Daniel speaketh and who bare the figure of Antichrist was very much addicted to the loue of women Antiochus saith S. Hierome in commentar hâ—iuâ— loci iâ— said to haue bene most lecharous and that he came into such ignominy by rauishements and corruptions of the Kingly Maiesty that he did also publiquely accompany queanes and harlots and satisfy his lust in the peoples presence Which since it is so how is it credible that Daniel would say of such a King he shall not be in the concupiscences of women The other coniecture is since that Antichrist shal be the Messias of the Iewes the Iewes besides other benefites expect of their Messias multitude of wyues it is in no sort probable that Antichrist shall either commaund or praise continency Lastly I adde that if it be a note of Antichrist to bring in continency for Priests not only the Pope but all the ancient Fathers and the Apostles themselues were certaine Antichrists for to omit the rest which shal be brought in their places heare what the Fathers of the second Councell of Carthage say can 2. It pleaseth vs all that Bishops Priests Deacons or they that handle the Sacraments keeping chastity absteinâ— also from their wyues that we may also obserue that which the Apostles taught and Antiquity it selfe hath kept Go on Illyricus Sixtly Daniel saith that he shall worship the God Maozim and that with gold and siluer which he hath donne while he placeth all piety in this that many and great Temples fairely built may shine with all kind of ornaments and sound with singing Bellarmine Of the God Maozim there hath bene much said before where we shewed that the God Maozim is either Antichrist himselfe or the Diuell himselfe whom Antichrist shall worship secretly But our friend Illyricus seemeth to me to make Iesus Christ the God Maozim which surely is an intollerable blasphemy for that all the Temples which are costly built and are adorned with gould and siluer by the Bishops of Rome are consecrated and dedicated to Christ our God there is no man but knoweth Therefore if he that is worshipped in these Temples be the God Maozim Neither did the building and adorning of Temples begin from the yeare 666. in which yeare our aduersaries will haue Antichrist to haue appeated but almost 300. yeares before this tyme. Heere Eusebius ex versione Russini lib. 9. Hist Eccles cap. 10. By which there was as it were by Gods gift ioy infused to all especially seeing those