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A49123 Mr. Hales's treatise of schism examined and censured by Thomas Long ... ; to which are added, Mr. Baxter's arguments for conformity, wherein the most material passages of the treatise of schism are answered. Long, Thomas, 1621-1707.; Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. Mr. Baxter's arguments for conformity against separation. 1678 (1678) Wing L2974; ESTC R10056 119,450 354

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distinction that he still retains Unity As he is One so we call him GOD the Deity the Divine Nature and other Names of the same signification as he is distinguished so we call him Trinity Persons Father Son and Holy Ghost In this Trinity there is One Essence Two Emanations Three Persons or Relations Four Properties Five Notions A Notion is that by which any Person is known or signified The One Essence is GOD which with this relation that it doth generate or beget makes the Person of the Father The same Essence with this Relation that it is begotten makes the Person of the Son The same Essence with this relation that it proceedeth maketh the Person of the Holy Ghost The Two Emanations are to be begotten and to proceed or to be breathed out The Four Properties are First Innascibility and Inemanability the second is to generate these belong to the Father the third is to be begotten this belongs to the Son the fourth is to proceed or to be breathed out this belongs to the Holy Spirit The five Notions are first Innascibility the second is to beget the third is to be begotten the fourth Spiratio passiva to be breathed out the fifth Spiratio activa or to breath and this Notion belongs to the Father and the Son alike for Pater filius spirant Spiritum sanctum Hence it evidently follows that he who acknowledgeth thus much can never possibly scruple the Eternal Deity of the Son of God And then he ingenuously concludes If any Man think this Confession to be defective for I can conceive no more in this point necessary to be known let him supply what he conceives deficient and I shall thank him for his labour But to proceed The confutation of this Treatise of Schism will appear to be necessary not only to wipe off the aspersions of the Papists but to silence the Objections of Factious Persons who often take Arguments from it to defend themselves in their separation as will appear by that which followeth Mr. Hales had said p. 207. That the Church might be in any number more or less in any place Country or Nation it may be in all and for ought I know it may be in none without prejudice to the Definition of the Church or the truth of the Gospel This strange notion is contrary to what Mr. Hales delivers in his Golden Remains p. 260. When we appeal saith he to the Churches Testimony we content not our selves with any part of the Church actually existent but add unto it the perpetually successive testimony of the Church in all Ages since the Apostles time And p. 186. This succession of the Church is sufficient to prove where our Church was before Luther This strange notion I say That the Church visible may totally decay prevailed too far with Mr. Chillingworth who saith p. 239. It is not certain that the truth of the Article of the Holy Catholick Church depends upon the Actual existence of a Catholick Church but rather upon the right that the Church of Christ or rather to speak properly that the Gospel of Christ hath to be universally believed and therefore the Article may be true though there were no Church in the World Now though this were only a probleme which Mr. Chillingworth defends not but in the 14. p. of his Preface overthroweth saying I believe that our Saviour ever since his Ascension hath had in some place or other a visible true Church on Earth and that there will be such a Church to the Worlds end yet his Adversary p. 779. of Infidelity Unmasked falls heavily on him and tells him that this notion is not only against the Scripture Eph. 4. 11. but against all Protestants and all Christians and sends him to Calvin 's Institutions l. 4. c. 1. and to Volkelius whom he calls his Socinian Brother de verâ Rel. l. 6. c. 5. who prove a Succession of Pastors and Doctors to have been always in the Church Remansit Doctorum Pastorúmque officium nec non alia quaedam And indeed Dr. Potter whom Mr. Chillingworth defended had said truly That it was an error in the nature and matter of it properly Heretical to say the Church remained only in the party of Donatus and that it was much worse to say she remained no where for this were to overthrow the Article of the Catholick Church and is little less than blasphemy saith Arch-bishop Laud. Again Mr. Hales p. 218. said It is alike unlawful to make profession of known or suspected falshoods as to put in practice unlawful or suspected actions This argument Mr. Chillingworth improveth p. penult of his Preface to Charity maintained If a Church says he supposed to want nothing necessary require me to profess against my Conscience that I believe some error though never so small and innocent which I do not believe and will not allow me her communion but upon this condition in this case the Church for requiring this condition is Schismatical and not I for separating from the Church Mr. Baxter speaks much more like a Conformist in this case than either Mr. Hales or Mr. Chillingworth If a Church saith he p. 464. of Reasons for Christ Relig. S. 15. which in all other respects is purest and best will impose any sin upon all that will have any local communion with it though we must not separate from that Church as no Church yet must we not commit that sin but patiently suffer them to exclude us from their communion And I think it is more rational peaceably to dissent until we are actually excluded than presently to pronounce that Church Schismatical which requires such conditions of our communion For if that which I believe to be an error being if an error but small and innocent be required of me by a Church which maintaineth all necessary things I ought rather to submit to or at least peaceably with-hold my communion from that Church than to violate its communion by my separation because that Church which GOD hath preserved in all necessary truths may probably know that which I believe to be an error and but a small one if an error to be an important truth or if she be mistaken in such small things it is not schismatical in her to require my profession who may well be resolved of my doubt when so many wiser and better than my self after mature deliberation think fit to require it For as Mr. Hooker saith p. 100. In all right and equity that which the Church hath so long received and held for good that which publick approbation hath ratified must carry the benefit of presumption with it to be accounted meet and convenient And p. 55. This Opinion That the Authority of Man affirmatively in matters Divine is nothing worth being once inserted into the minds of the vulgar sort GOD knows what it may grow unto Thus much we see It hath already made Thousands so head-strong even in gross and palpable Errors that a Man
necessity of it Christ should profit them nothing Gal. 5. 2. Now from this History as our Author had contrived it he drew several wilde inferences As first p. 203. In this fantastical Hurry I cannot see saith he but all the World were Schismaticks To which I reply That all the World were not concerned in it there being some Nations that differed from both these in the observation of Easter as Socrates l. 5. c. 21. hath observed for even among the Jewish Converts some that agreed on the 14th day differed in the Moon and Venerable Bede observes that our Nation which the Pope pretends to have been his Converts did in those primitive times observe their Easter on the 14th day which by the way is an argument that we at first received the Christian Faith not from the Church of Rome who exploded this custome but more Anciently from Joseph of Arimathea or from St. Philip who as many good Authors affirm planted the Christian Religion in our neighbour Nation of France and as the Asian Churches affirm was one of them that taught them this custom nor do we read that they were condemned for Hereticks for so doing Neither did those Eastern Churches who differed in the Moneth anathematize each other and Socrates ubi supra gives this reason for it They that agree in the same Faith may differ from each other in respect of Rites as the Reformed Churches do at this day And though the Roman Church did excommunicate the Asian yet were they never the more Schismaticks for that being they were sui Juris not under the Roman power And according to our Authors definition of schism they being never members of that Church from which they were excommunicate could not be guilty of schism notwithstanding Victors rigor We say therefore they were still members of the Catholick Church And as for the Roman Church what should make them Schismaticks For though Victor did arrogate too much as to the manner of his proceedings yet as to the matter his prosecution against a Jewish ceremony when it grew into an Opinion of being necessary to be observed was his duty and approved by the practice of St. Paul himself And while there was a controversie between their Governors the People and Clergy too of both Parties continued in due subjection to their Superiors and in mutual charity to one another So that the Separatists of our Age can have no excuse for their Schism from this instance But our Author infers Secondly that this fell out through the ignorance or which he mentioneth also the malice of their Governors and that through the just judgment of God on the People because through sloth and blind obedience they examined not the things which they were taught but like beasts of burthen patiently couched down and indifferently underwent whatsoever their Superiors laid upon them To which I Answer It doth not appear there was any charge of ignorance to be imputed to Victor or his People for the reasons above mentioned much less of malice Our present Sectaries do call their opposition to Ceremonies more innocent than that by the name of zeal and love to the cause of God Nor was there any thing imposed on the Churches of either side that concerned their Faith nor any custome or rite de novo but only the Asian Churches were desired to translate the custome of observing Easter from a day which gave offence not only to the Church of Rome but several other Churches Petavius says the difference was not de Catholico dogmate sed de Ritu seu Ritûs potiùs tempore And if the Superiors in the Asian Churches had thought the Alteration fit as shortly after they did it had doubtless been the Peoples duty to submit for every Church hath power in those things which are indifferent and much more in such things as give offence to other Churches to appoint and alter rites and ceremonies for the publick Worship of God and the People shew themselves not beasts of burthen but Christ's Free-men in submitting to their Governors as far as Christian liberty doth permit If Victor had imposed new Articles of Faith as Pius Quintus did in the Council of Trent doubtless those Primitive Christians would have resisted even to bloud of which they gave too many instances when they constantly endured all manner of torments rather than they would renounce the Faith once delivered to them Our Author therefore needed to ask pardon for wounding the reputation of these Ancient Worthies in cool bloud as well as for massacring at once the authority of all the Fathers in the heat of a temptation p. 204. where he says thus You may plainly see the danger of our appeal to Antiquity for resolution in controversies of Faith and how small relief we are to expect from thence for if the discretion of the chiefest Guides of the Church did in a point so trivial so inconsiderable so mainly fail them as not to see the truth in a subject wherein it is the greatest marvel how they could avoid the sight of it Can we without the imputation of extreme grossness and folly think so poor spirited persons competent Judges of the questions now on foot in the Churches Pardon me I know not what temptation drew that note from me To this I reply 1. Whoever he be that so contemptuously rejects the Authority and trampleth on the reputation of the Fathers hath sufficiently excused those that shall slight his own This is the Author 's own sense Golden Remains p. 260. 2. I refer it to the judgment of the Reader whether Victor Bishop of Rome condemning some of the Asian Churches for adhering too tenaciously to a Jewish ceremony which was of ill consequence to those and other neighbouring Churches were not more excusable than a private person living many hundred years after the fact and never rightly knowing or else wrongfully representing it insolently and causlesly condemning the Ancient Fathers not of one or two Ages or parts of the Church but all in general as if the failing of one man in a point so trivial and inconsiderable as our Author calls it were sufficient reason to condemn them all for indiscreet and poor spirited persons And to impute extreme grossness and folly to all that should think them competent Judges of our differences This is a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 beyond that of Abailardus who was wont to say that the Fathers for the most part did think this or that to be right but I think otherwise as if his single authority could out-weigh all theirs 3. He must pretend to have some new light for his guide and be either an Enthusiast or Socinian that can see any danger in appealing to Antiquity for resolution in controverted points of Faith For seeing there is scarce any point of Faith but some unhappy Wits have controverted it and in defence of their Opinions have put the Scriptures on the rack to make them speak their own sense how can
strictly enjoyned by the word of God cannot be dispensed with by scruples about the lawfulness of rites and ceremonies in the external worship of God And I may safely add 4. That if honest and well meaning men shall so far indulge to such scruples as to live in disobedience to the Laws and constitutions of their Superiors their Superiors may justly punish them for so doing or the frame of their Government will soon be turned off its hinges And Governors not being able to discern the hearts of men may equally animadvert upon all refractory persons or they must let all go unpunished and if they should resolve on this later farewell all Government And seeing the wisdom of Man cannot prevent it it is better that a few mistaken Innocents should be punished than the peace and foundation of a Church or Nation be overturned Melius pereat unus quàm unitas Better is a private inconvenience than a publick mischief This is a foundation necessary to the settlement of all humane Laws and Constitutions Thus in matters of common right and interest when the several Courts of a Nation have established and published rules and orders for the appearances and proceedings of Persons litigant they who omit the time or mistake the right methods of pleading and thereupon suffer damage though as to the merits of their cause they be severely dealt with yet the proceedings of the Law are right and justifiable because it is more for the publick peace and establishment that some persons should sustain loss for their unwilling neglects and errors than that all wilful Offenders should go unpunished and publick Orders of Court be contemned and disobeyed And this Rule holds much stronger in such Ecclesiastical cases as are now under our consideration because the controversie is not here between private persons but between Superiors and Subjects If therefore one or more private Persons purely on mistake and after humble and serious inquiry for satisfaction though I think few sober persons using such means can remain unsatisfied in so plain a case Whether Scruples concerning ancient and innocent rites in the external Worship of God can justifie disobedience to the constitutions of lawful Governors should still judge contrary to their Governors who impose such things as lawful and convenient to be unlawful and superstitious and thereupon refuse to appear at their Courts and be ordered by them It is agreeable to the Laws of all Societies that such Persons should not go unpunished If a Child or Servant shall neglect to obey his Father or Master because he hath some Scruples against his commands I think such Father or Master may without Scruple correct that Child or Servant or within a short time they will become incorrigible And the Case is almost the same as if the debauched part of the Nation who are morally vicious should pretend scruples of conscience against such Laws of the Land as restrain their enormities suppose of Sabbath-breaking and neglecting the Publick Worship which yet I think the Nonconformists would not judge to be a tolerable plea. I have insisted so long on this argument not only because our Author mentioneth it so often and ever makes it a ground for separation telling us that Not only in Reason but in Religion too this Maxime admits of no release Cautissimi cujusque praeceptum quod dubitas nè feceris but often insinuates them to be guilty of Schism that do require any suspected thing as you may see p. 194. and p. 218. After this Pipe all the Factions do dance The Presbyterians in their Commissioners Papers suggest it frequently whether Ecclesiastical constitutions concerning things which are or may become matter of dispute and opposition are to be allowed And John Owen for the Independents would have some warrant from Scripture for every thing that is required in the Worship of God But minding my Reader of Dr. Owen's concessions before mentioned to which I shall only add the confessions of the Presbyterians who from the beginning opposed our Rites and Ceremonies not as unlawful but only as inconvenient as Mr. Cartwright did in his second Reply p. 262. and therefore perswaded Ministers rather to wear the Garments required by Law than cease their Ministry And in his Evangelical Harmony on Luke 22. à versu 14. ad 19. saith That kneeling in receiving the Sacrament being incommodious in its own nature and made more incommodious by Popish superstition is not so to be rejected that for the sake thereof we should abstain from the Sacrament His words are these Geniculatio in participatione suâ naturâ incommoda superstitione pontificiâ longè facta est incommodior Nec tamen propterea ita rejicienda ut ejus nomine à Sacramento abstineamus si ejus caeteroquin participes esse nequimus quia res suâ naturâ non est purè illicita because the thing is not in its own nature utterly unlawful From whence we may conclude that such things as are not purely unlawful in their own nature though they are incommodiously applied and have been grosly abused by Popish superstition are not a sufficient cause to hinder our participation of Divine Ordinances And yet to what mischievous ends is this forlorn scruple of receiving that blessed Sacrament on our Knees made use of by Fanatick Persons as a Bar against the receiving of it at all though it be a posture sanctified by the Son of God when in the days of his being in the flesh he offered up Prayers to God and hath been used by all sober Christians in their publick and private Devotions and therefore most agreeable to that Solemn Office wherein we cannot with sufficient humility and reverence receive at the hands of God such an ineffable blessing nor worthily express our humble acknowledgment of thankfulness to God And in the act of receiving besides our secret supplication to God to pardon and absolve us from all our sins for Christ's sake we joyn with the Minister to pray that the Body of our Lord Jesus Christ which was given for us may preserve our Bodies and Souls to Eternal life though the Church hath used as plain and effectual a mean to prevent our being scandalized and scrupled at it by declaring in the Rubrick that no adoration is intended or ought to be done either to the Sacramental Bread and Wine there bodily received or to any corporal presence of Christ's natural flesh and bloud for the Sacramental bread and wine remain still in their very natural substances and therefore may not be adored for that were Idolatry to be abhorred of all Christians And that it was intended for a signification of our humble and grateful acknowledgment of the benefits of Christ therein given to all worthy receivers and for avoiding such disorder and profanation in the holy Communion as might otherwise ensue as the wisdom of Men can invent yet the outcry of Superstition Will-worship and Idolizing the Creatures of Bread and Wine is kept up and
the other Study Gal. 2. 22. Rom. 14. 1. Acts 21. 24 26. 1 Tim. 1. 4. 6. 4. Titus 3. 8 9. I hope sad experience speaks this lesson to your very hearts if I should say nothing Do not your hearts bleed to look upon the State of England and to think how few Towns or Cities there be where is any forwardness in Religion that are not cut into shreds and crumbled as to dust by separations and divisions to think what a wound we have hereby given to the very Christian name how we have hardned the ignorant confirmed the Papists and are our selves become the scorn of our enemies and the grief of our friends and how many of our dearest best esteemed friends have fallen to notorious pride or impiety yea some to be worse than open Infidels These are pillars of Salt see that you remember them Though of your own selves men should arise speaking perverse things to draw disciples after them Acts 20. 30. yea though an Angel from Heaven should draw you to divisions see that you follow him not If there be erroneous practices in the Church keep your selves innocent with moderation and peace It must be no small error that must force a Separation Justin Martyr professed that if a Jew should keep the ceremonial law so he did not perswade the Gentiles to it as necessary yet if he acknowledged Christ he judgeth that he might be saved and he would imbrace him and have communion with him Paul would have him received that is weak in the faith and not un-church whole parishes of those that we know not nor were ever brought to a just trial I ever loved a godly peaceable Conformist better than a turbulent Nonconformist I differ from many in several things of considerable moment yet if I should zealously press my judgment on others so as to disturb the peace of the Church and separate from my brethren that are contrary minded I should fear lest I should prove a fire-brand in hell for being a fire-brand in the Church And for all the interest I have in your judgments and affections I here charge you that if God should give me up to any factious Church-rending course against which I daily pray that you forsake me and follow me not a step And for peace with one another follow it with all your might if it be possible as much as in you lyeth live peaceably with all men Rom. 12. 18. mark this When you feel any sparks of discontent in your breasts take them as kindled by the Devil from hell and take heed you cherish them not If the flames begin to break forth in censoriousness reproaches and hard speeches of others be as speedy and busie in quenching it as if it were fire in the thatch of your houses For why should your houses be dearer to you than the Church which is the house of God or your Souls which are the Temples of the Holy Ghost Hath God spoke more against any sin than unpeaceableness If ye forgive not men their trespasses neither will your heavenly Father forgive you which Lodovicus Crocius says is the measure and essential property of the least degree of true faith if you love not one another you are not disciples of Christ Publick wars and private quarrels usually pretend the Reformation of the Church the vindicating of the Truth and the welfare of Souls but they as usually prove in the issue the greatest means to the overthrow of all It is as natural for both wars and private contentions to produce errors schisms contempt of Magistracy Ministry and Ordinances as it is for a dead Carrion to breed worms and vermine Believe it from one that hath too many years experience of it it is as hard a thing to maintain even in your people a sound understanding a tender Conscience a lively gracious heavenly frame of spirit and an upright life in a way of war and contention as to keep your Candle lighted in the greatest storms or under the waters The like I may say of perverse and fierce disputings about the circumstantials of discipline or other questions that are far from the foundation they oftner lose the truth than find it Wo to those Ministers that make unnecessary divisions and parties among the people that so they may get themselves a name and be cryed up by many followers The way to prosper your labours is to quench all flames of contention to your power Study the peace and unity of your Congregations keep out all occasions of divisions especially the doctrine of Separation and popular Church-Government the apparent Seminary of faction and perpetual contentions If once the people be taught that it belongs to them to govern themselves and those the Scripture calleth their Guides and Rulers we shall have mad work They that would pluck up the hedge of Government as if the vineyard could not be fruitful except it lay waste to the pleasure of all the beasts of the forest are like the pond that grudged at the banks and damm and thought it injurious to be restrained of its liberty and therefore combined with the winds to raise a tempest and so assault and beat down the banks in their rage and now where is that peaceable association of waters We feel now how those are mistaken that thought the way for the Churches unity was to dig up the banks and let all loose that every man in Religion might do what he list They are usually men least acquainted with a heavenly life who are the violent disputers about the circumstantials of Religion As the body doth languish in consuming Fevers when the native heat abates within and unnatural heat inflaming the external parts succeeds so when the zeal of a Christian doth leave the internals of Religion and fly to ceremonials externals or inferior things the Soul must needs consume and languish Of Conformity For Conformity though to Ministers it be another thing by reason of the new impositions than it was to our Predecessors yet to the People Conformity is the same if not easier especially to them that I now speak to for it is the Liturgy Ceremonies and Ministry that most alienate them And the Liturgy is a little amended as to them by the change of the translation and some little words and by some longer Prayers and the Ceremonies are the same and thirty years ago there were many bare reading not preaching Ministers for one that is now Therefore our case of Separation being the same as of old I take it to be fully confuted by the Ancient Non-conformists and I have so great a veneration for the worthy Names much more an estimation of the reasonings of Mr. Cartwright Egerton Hildersham Dod Amesius Parker Baines Brightman Ball Bradshaw Paget Langley Nicols Herring c. that I shall not think they knew not why they chose this subject and wrote more against Separation than the Conformists did I am very glad that the pious Lectures of
lawful things oft become unlawful when Superiors forbid them yet no reason can be given why a lawful thing should become unlawful because a lawful Superior doth command it else Superiors might take away all our Christian liberty and make all things unlawful to us by commanding them You would take it for a wild conceit in your children or servants if they say when you bid them learn a Catechism or use a form of prayer It was lawful for us to do it till you commanded us but because you bid us do it it is unlawful If it be a duty to obey Governors in all lawful things then it is not a sin to obey them 3. It is not your knowing before hand that makes it unlawful for 1. I know in general before-hand that all imperfect men will do imperfectly and though I know not the particular that maketh it never the lawfuller if foreknowledge it self did make it unlawful 2. If you know that e.g. an Antinomian or some mistaken Preacher would constantly drop some words for his error in praying or preaching that will not make it unlawful in your own judgment for you to joyn if it be not a flat heresie 3. It is another mans error or fault that you foreknow and not your own 4. God himself doth as an universal cause of nature concur with men in those acts which he foreknoweth they will sinfully do yet is not the Author or approver of the sin We the Commissioners 1663. all thought a Liturgy lawful and divers learned and reverend Nonconformists of London met to consider how far it was their duty or lawful to communicate with the Parish Churches where they lived in the Liturgy and Sacrament and I proved four propositions 1. That it is lawful to use a form 2. That it is lawful to joyn with some Parish Churches in the use of the Liturgy 3. That it is lawful to joyn with some Parish Churches in the Lords Supper 4. That it is to some a duty to joyn with some Parish Churches three times a year in the Lords Supper and none of the Brethren seemed to dissent but took the reasons to be valid Were I in Armenia Abassia or among the Greeks I would joyn in a much more defective form than our Liturgy rather than none And this is the judgment of many New-England Ministers conform to the old Non-conformists who did some of them read the Common-Prayer and the most of them judged it lawful to joyn in it or else Mr. Hildersham Mr. Rich. Rogers c. would not write so earnestly for coming to the beginning and preferring it before all private duties And truly I am not able to bear the thoughts of separating from almost all Christs Churches upon earth but he that separates from one or many upon a reason common to almost all doth virtually separate from almost all and he that separates from all among us upon the account of the unlawfulness of our Liturgy and the badness of our Ministry doth separate from them upon a reason common to almost all or the far greatest part as I conceive Those forms of Liturgy which now are most distasted were brought in by the most zealous religious people at the first the many short invocations versicles and responses which the people use were brought in when the Souls of the faithful did abound with zeal and in holy fervors break out in such expressions and could not well endure to be bare Auditors not vocally to bear their part in the praises of God and prayers of the Church I have shewed at large How far God hath given men power to prescribe and impose forms for others and commanded others to obey them when Christ said When ye pray say Our Father c. he bound the Disciples in duty to do as he bid them How forms may be imposed publickly on the congregations of Believers and on the Ministers yea though the forms imposed be worse than the exercise of their own gifts though among us no man be forbidden to use his own gifts in the Pulpit The Pharisees long Liturgy it is like was in many things worse than ours yet Christ and his Apostles often joyned with them and never condemned them I shall now only add that the Lord's prayer is a form directed to God as in the third person and not to man only as a directory for prayer in the Second Person it is not Pray to God your Father in heaven that his name may be Hallowed his Kingdom come c. But Our Father which art in heaven hallowed be thy name c. And it seems by the disciples words that thus John taught his disciples to pray Luke 11. 1. and we have in the Scripture the mention of many Set forms of Service to God which therefore we may well use And I desire the Reader again to Note that though Prayer was corrupted by the Pharisees yet Christ usually joyned in their Synagogues Luke 14. 17. and never medled with our controversie about the lawfulness of Set forms This Mr. Baxter infers from Calvins note on Matth. 6. before the Preface to the Defence Of Obedience to our Pastors We are indangered by divisions principally because the self-conceited part of Religious people will not be ruled by their Pastors but must have their way and will needs be rulers of the Church and them But pleasing the ignorant Professors humors is a sin that shews us to be too humane and carnal and hath always sad effects at last It is a high degree of pride for persons of ordinary understandings to conclude that almost all Christs Chruches in the world for thirteen hundred years at least have offered such worship to God as that you are obliged to avoid it and all their communion in it and that almost all the Catholick Church on earth at this day is below your communion for using forms Mark Is it not more of the women and apprentices that are of this mind than of old experienced Christians I think till we have better taught even our godly people what credit and obedience is due to their teachers and spiritual guides the Church of England shall never have peace or any good or established order We are broken for want of the knowledge of this truth till this be known we shall never be well bound up and healed The people of the new separation so much rule their Ministers that many of them have been forced to forsake their own judgments to comply with the violent Labour to maintain the Ordinances and Ministry in esteem The Church is bound to take many a man as a true Minister to them and receive the Ordinances from him in faith and expectation of blessing upon promise who yet before God is a sinful invader and usurper of the Ministry and shall be condemned for it How much more then to respect their lawful Bishops and Pastors For Lay-Elders As