Selected quad for the lemma: father_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
father_n	person_n	son_n	spirit_n	35,508	5	6.0195	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A89851	A second answer to Thomas Moore, to that which he calls, his Defence against the poyson, &c. Wherein is shewed the crooked wayes, the Serpent is forced to take to keep God and his creatures at a distance, and yet would do it under the name of a teacher. But is seen to be the same, that perswaded man out from his guide in spirit, and now would keep him so, lest his unclean wayes in the heart of man should be discovered with the spiritual light of Christ; and so man should turn to the Lord, who is that spirit, and the vail be done away, ... Here is also 54. lies gathered out from amongst a multitude more, with T.M. hath heaped up for his defence, against the truth, which he calles the poyson of Satan, which are sent him back to the 48. that I sent him before, that he may either prove them, or they root with the founder, for the truth they touch not. / Set forth to clear the truth from this froth, cast upon it by the enemy thereof, By a friend to the seed of truth, called James Naylor.	Naylor, James, 1617?-1660.	1656 (1656)	Wing N314; Thomason E868_9; ESTC R202991	29,892	39

is because I tell not all the lying story over again after thee and in these and such like crooked wayes thou goes about to avoid the truth and winde out thy head least it should be bruised therewith and this shall any see who in the light doth but read thy books and my answer wherein I might trace thee into every particular were it needful or dark to the least simplicity Also in other places where thy escape will not serve thee with a seeming shew of truth before thou stick thou wilt forge an absolute lie As for instance page 9. where thou mentionest my charging thee to say that none have yet ceased from their own works To which thou sayes thy Tayings are that none here have yet so ceased from their own works c. To prove which words thou quotes Antepage 44. which all that read that page shall read thee a lyer thereby to accuse the truth for these words are not so there nor any where else that I have yet seen and so according to the Doctrine to thee it is who hast not yet ceased from thy own works who art yet a lyer and covering one lie with another carping at words when I speak the sence to make me a lier when thou canst not hit thy own words but he that is come to Christ is ceased from his own works who is become Gods workmanship but the Serpent hath no portion here and so would exclude all others who knowes no better but to believe him but where God works all our work in us he ordains peace there and such are entred into the Rest the Serpent knowes not Isay 26. 52. Phil. 2. 13. but they which did believe were entred into rest Heb. 4. 3. but thy Sophistry is to keep people from looking for any rest from their own works till they be cut off by death and can serve the Devil no longer and so art one of those who will neither enter thy selfe nor suffer those that would like the rest of thy Fathers who art seeking to overthrow the faith by thy lying Divination For the Devil knowes unbelief is that which keeps from entring into rest so he strikes off Faith But many are entred in who have heard his voice and such will believe thee no longer for thou casts out thy flood after such as is out of thy reach Another way thou hast that when I tell thee of thy lies and deceits in thy book lest people should find them thou sets them to seek in another page where thou hast made some cover for that deceit and not in the place in which it is spoken and thus thou shuffles to hide thy selfe lest thou should be discovered in plainness to the simple Instance that about the Resurrection Another way thou hast with thy Divination to turn a thing quite contrary to what I both speak and intend and this is usuall to thee in most places of thy book Instance thy 55. page thou having in thy first book seemed to deny any other manner of preaching then which was left by the Apostles to which I answer Then you may spare your pains you Steeple-house-Teachers who are out of the manner yea and matter also and with thy divination thou turns this that I would set up a new manner of teaching of two or three years standing when both my words and end is to establish the old way and therefore deny your Idoll-worship which is out of it your preaching and Printing And in some of these wayes or some other such like crooked way hast thou cast a mist over the truths wherewith I have laid open thy deceits yet canst thou blinde none therewith but thy own Generation who are blinde already and as any of them mindes the light in spirit which thou so much opposest they shall see thee and thy deceit also And now having a little opened the way to all who desires to know the truth that they thereby may see all the rest of thy rotten Covers I shall not much contend about words but leave the truth to manifest it selfe to all who in the principle of truth reads our books and enquires after it and they who will be filthy and loves deceit in thy book may cover themselves therewith Thou goes on saying We come to give some Instances of his false charges and you mention some perticular things To which I say how many that we is thou speaks on you know not further then that there is Legions against the Lamb but to that I have said I shall make it appear to be true as to the true intent of thy Doctrine without the least desire to aggravate as follows First As to thy seeking to exclude God and Christ the spirit and light out of the world and that he should no more dwell in his people till dooms-day and so on to all the rest To which I say thy words are that it cannot be properly said that in a full and absolute sense God was or is manifest in the flesh of any naturall Son of Adam in the time of his Mortality where it is plain thou excludes all Mortality with all the time till Dooms-day If not let the wise judge as for thy word naturall thou hast thrust into blinde people with it is of no force in that place unless thou prove that all men must be in their naturall estate during the time of their Mortality which indeed best suits thy end and condition and as for the spirit thou calls it as Popery to confess a spirit within to open the Scriptures and the light within thou compares to a familiar spirit In another place thou sayes God was not God is manifest in the flesh which words not God is is as absolute a deny all as can be made and so preaches him not onely out of the world but out of all the Saints and thy self thou sayst also the Word Christ is personally absent from us while in these bodies And in another place speaking of the manifestation of God thou sayes in that one person not in divers and this is to deny the Father and the Son for he that hath not the Father hath not the Son and he that hath not the Son hath not life and so this preaches an eternall separation between the Creature and the Creator and keeps God out of his dwelling-place denies him present to judge rule and guid and this preaches him out of the heart and not to be manifest in the flesh and the whole is herein proved upon thee which I have said out of thy own mouth and whereas thou would shuffle out by saying thou dost but uphold that Scripture Paul speaks to Timothy Isay Paul sayes no such words as that God is not manifest in flesh that 's thy own therewith to deny God in the flesh for Paul saith Great is the Mystery and speaks of what Timothy should wait for then in him that so by God manifest in him he might know how to behave himself

thou dost not gather thy charge against me that I preach down the person and work of Christ in one body for us c. from my letter because I witnessed the flesh of Christ the food of the inner Man But from my comparing my Confession of the flesh of Christ in me with the Apostles preaching down Circumcision c. Wherein all that ever reads my letter in thy book may be witness against thee if in any part of my letter I have compared these two together nor ever did it enter into my heart so to do But the end of my letter is this to let you see your selves more blinde as to the knowledge of the spirit and its reaching and revelation then the Jews was as much as if I had said if you oppose my Testimony when I confessed the flesh of Christ which the letter doth declare of what a Generation would you have been had you lived in the time of the Apostles who preached down Circumcision which the letter said should continue So the comparison stands betwixt your opposing the testimony of the spirit in me which is according to the letter and the Jews opposing the Apostles Testimony in spirit which disannulled the Letter wherein you are found double to them in blindnesse Now how this preaches down the person of Christ or whether I made that comparison thou sayes I did let any judge who all may see thou hast made it thy selfe to slander withall without the least ground from me and then sayes I made it O thou shamelesse man how dost thou bend thy tongue for lies and slanders Also having in thy book called perfection a devilish Doctrine and being told of it and confounded in it by Scripture now thou covers it as though thou call'd our Doctrine of perfection devilish and sayes thou no where findes Christ gave gifts to perfect men in lying c. I say When didst thou read of any other Doctrine of perfection preacht by us but the Doctrine of Christ and his Light and Spirit for perfecting the Saints and this is it thou callest divelish and for thy lies our Doctrine layes thee open therein else we should not be so much opposed by the●● and the Generation of lyers who deny the light of truth within as thou Child of darkness dost who sayes the grace of God that brings salvation to all men instructs them not to look to any light or spirit in them for direction herein shewing thy selfe wholly ignorant of the spirit of Christ and his light for all who have the spirit of Christ they have it within them and his light in them which thou denies for direction and so art Antichrist opposing the spirituall light and teaching without which none can come to know God or themselves and that is the cause of all thy lies thou hast told in thy books for who denies the spirit of truth which is appointed of God to lead into all truth must needs be led with the contrary who are sensuall not having the spirit nor light in them and if thou hadst said no more in thy books this had been enough to have shewed thy selfe a blinde Guide who denies the teachings of the spirit and light within to be from the grace of God for none can have the grace of God to appear with its light and teachings and salvation but within for the grace of God is spirituall and that which is spiritual is within else no Creature can have it to salvation wherefore Christ saith the Kingdom of God is within you Not lo here lo there as you Luk. 17 20. 21. Rom 10. 8 Pharisees would have it And saith he Go not forth and the Apostles preached the word of Faith that was in peoples hearts to whom they preached and they came to the knowledge of God and his glory by the light that 2 Cor. 4. 6. Col. 3. 16. Hob. 13. 9. Gal. 4. 6. Eph. 4. 18 19. shined in their hearts and the Saints had their grace in their hearts and the word of God dwelt in them richly yea God himself dwelt in their hearts by his spirit and yet thou sayes the grace of God teaches not to look to any light within and here thou art clearly manifest to be heart-blind and would have all in thy State for herein your Kingdom would fall and you could no longer raign over peoples Consciences and Estates if they come once to know Gods grace in their hearts and the teachings of the spirit within them they would soon see your Idoll-worship and high place-preaching to be out of both form and power of that which the Saints liv'd in and practised and no longer would they give their money for that which is no bread and their labours for that which doth not profit and then could you no longer ride upon the Nations 2 Cor. 3. as Masters and the Whore would fall so thou and the rest do what you can to keep people spiritually blind from looking within that so they may come to you for teaching and so be ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth ever loadened with sin but never set free being led out by you and kept from entering in where freedom is for the vail must be over the heart till they turn to the spirit Now the Lord is that spirit and where the spirit is there is liberty from sin from glory to glory by the spirit which no litteral Ministration Luk. 17. 20 21. Isa 51. 7. Psal 119. 11. Jer. 20. 9. 2 Cor 6. 16. can ever come to though the Letter be read every day and so you deny both Letter and Spirit also for saith the Letter you shall be all taught of God and none can be taught of God but by the light of Christ within in spirit and thou that denies this art against Christ and his Kingdom is in the heart and his Law in the heart and his word in the heart and he himself in the heart therefore thou his enemy would not have his people to look there for teaching so let all who desires to be united unto Christ avoid thee and thy Antichristian Doctrine and it is no matter what thou sayes as touching the things of God who art heart-blinde and hast not thy teaching from the light and spirit of Christ-within thee All that comes out must needs be of the Devill and so it is in all who hath it not from the light and spirit of Christ within them for he that speaks of himself is the lyer and the Father of it and so it is seen of thee in thy books and also thy blasphemy who sayes to direct to look to the light within is the lame as directing men to seek to a Familiar spirit and of that brood thou art who ever called Christ Beelzebub and light darkness O thou blasphemer did Christ direct to a familiar spirit when he told them The Kingdom was within them and Luk. 17. 21 Luk.

11. 34 35. 36. that the light of the body is the eye and if it be single the whole body is full of light as the bright shining of a Candle doth give light And keep thy heart with all diligence for from thence are the Issues of life And saith Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin and Commune with your own hearts and be still and the Law of God is written in the heart and the heart of the wise Prov. 4. 23 Psal 119. 11. Psal 4. Heb. 8. 10. Prov. 16. 23. Joh. 16. 13 teacheth his mouth and the spirit of truth is that which must lead into all truth Nay doth not all the Scriptures testifie to the light and spirit-teaching within and that they are none of Christs who have not the spirit of Christ and is it counted a familiar spirit now with thee Now is it seen to all the Children of the light that Antichrist is revealing as the Scriptures hath foretold and the Man of sin pleading against freedom from sin and the blinde Guids preaching against the light and he that is born of the flesh against the spirit and its teachings and the Children of darkness against the light that manifests the evill deeds and he is discovering who abode not in the truth and the spirit and light is that truth which thou would preach down to lead out into the world where the lyer is who hates the light because his deeds are evill And this is thy work in thy books and to thy Master and his work thou art faithful using thy utmost subtlety to do his work thorowly to preach Christ out of his Creatures that none should minde his light and spirit but without in another world that so the Devill may have his will in the heart in this World while any one lives and serve God and be made free when they are dead and can do their Master no more service if they would and when thou hast struck them off from looking at any light or spirit within then like the Serpent least his head should be seen thou hides thy selfe with telling of Not to lean to their own understanding and sayes thou though the word be nigh them in their hearts that it might be yet it is not received by them in their hearts or dwelling there as a light or principle to direct them while in their naturall estate when thou hast done what thou can to perswade them that the looking to it is but as to a familiar spirit But is that their own understanding which condemns their natural understanding as they are fallen from God and lets them see that all their understanding wisdom and prudence is God hid from and manifests all their deeds in that state to be evill this hath every natural man in him from the Father of Spirits which manifestation of spirit is given to every one to profit withall if it be but minded and not quenched and without this can be no knowledge of God and if this Candle be put out there is no doing the work of God till it be lighted further then to wait and there is no waiting but with the heart in spirit till it shine out of darkness again and till then all the Creature doth is but deeds of darkness and not accepted by God his prayers are abomination and his plowing sin yea though all the world should flatter such a one they could not save him nor unite him to God nor give peace of Conscience with God nor Sealing in spirit and this the Children of light know though blinde Serpents and deaf Adders oppose it who walk in crast and deceit but the Apostles who handled not the word deceitfully did commend themselves to that in every mans 2 Cor. 4. 2. Conscience in the sight of God and the Ministration of Christ is to the spiritual seed whereby the spiritual seed is quickned and raised out of darkness and death but the Ministration of the Hireling and false Prophet is to the itching eares and so the Beast and the false Prophet joynes against the seed of God to keep it in death and darkness and if it be born up then they persecute him in whom it is born And these take the letter there with to deny the light and oppose that spirit that gave it forth and whereof the letter restifies because they have not the John 5. word abiding within them and this was the work of the Pharises and Hirelings but never any one of Christs Ministers denyed the light and spirit within as thou dost yet slaidly and covertly so as if thou be taxt for it thou may have an excuse to come out of and deny thy work with a meaning and consequence but if none disproves thee then goes on with thy work to lead out simple people from the light of Christ in spirit to follow thy Imaginations without a spirit and light without which thou never saw Yet in this one thing there is not many exceeds thee for when ever thou layes down a deceit the end whereof is to deny the light or spirit or perfection or to slander any who own the truth in these things thou makes sure before thou leave it to make two or three wayes for escape least it fall upon thy head knowing before the thing to be such thou cannot stand by with Scripture and this the least Child of Light may see in thy books wherefore I shall not much need to trace thee therein the thing being so plainly evident to all that in the light read thy books and my answers thereto And when thou hast told a lie and being told thereof thou on purpose having left out a word or syllable there thou makes an escape As for instance in thy answer to the last Query which asks What that grace of God is which brings salvation and hath appeared to all men thy lie is that indeed we believe no such thing as the grace of God appearing to men which I finding this to be as answer to the Query I tell thee Thou answers with a slander saying that indeed we believe no such thing as the grace of God appearing to all men now thou having left out the word all for escape which is in the Query and in the Scripture also In thy defence sayes thou my words are They believe no such thing as the grace of God appearing to men and this thou would charge upon me to be a lie when the lie is thy own and hath both abused the Query and the Scripture on which the Query is grounded leaving out the word all to make it and such holes as this thou creeps out of to hide the lyer from being seen And in other places where thou hast gone a crooked way to fetch a compasse to make a lie for otherwise thou could not which when I come to answer and takes the sum of the thing in brief which otherwise might fill a volume then thy escape

in the Church of the living God the Pillar and ground of truth which Church was in God and God in them who did dwell in them and walk in them and they knew that what God was in Christ he was in them as they had received Christ according to these Scriptures John 14. 20 21. 23. John 17. 23. and they knew that they was the Temples of God which Temples was holy in which God was known and manifest to dwell and walk 1 Cor. 3. 16 17. 2 Cor. 6. 16. And if any had not the Father and the Son in them they was warned Nnot to receive them into their houses 2 John 9. 10. And therefore they was to try all Antichrists who denyed Christ in their flesh as thou dost and so all Idoll-Shepheards and Hirelings who had not God in them they denyed and those that was without God they saw them to be in the world and so the world would hear them but them in whom God was they knew not but as thou dost now to envy and reproach 1 John 4. 3 4 5 6. 12 13 15 16 17. So that which I have said of thee is no slander being proved out of thy own mouth afterward contradicted by plain Scripture and thou proved to be that Antichrist who art without God in the world denying Christ now in the flesh and God also and knowes not the great mystery of God manifest in flesh which was great and is great though thou know it not now no more then the blinde guides did then And thy cover is that that word Christ is personally absent from us while we are in these bodies upon earth I say thou may stop thy mouth for any knowledge thou hast of Christ personall or spirituall he was never known to the Idoll-Teachers and Hirelings and blinde Guides and such as preacht for gifts and rewards such never knew his person nor appeanance Had there not been a letter we should have little talk of Christ or his appearance with thy Generation of Chemerims who have alwayes put his appearance into another Generation wherein thou exceeds all thy Predecessors who would binde him in Heaven while he is and while any man lives which seeing thou goes about to deny I shall repeat thy words which are these in thy first book page 36. That he remains in the Heavens as opposed to the Earth and where while he is he is personally absent from us while we are in these bodies on Earth and yet with the same shameless mouth Jer. 4. 22. am I accused as a lyer for telling thou hast limitted his person from the Earth till Dooms-day as it is call'd when thy words reaches further even to while he is which is as much as to say for ever thou blinde Sot wilt thou limit the Lord in Heaven who fills Heaven and Earth who after he had descended into the lower parts of the Earth ascended far above all Heavens that he might fill all things And was not this the person of Christ Ephes 4. 9 10. which descended and ascended and that above all Heavens which now filleth all things which thou would limit in Heaven Art not thou blinde as to the letter it selfe was he personally absent from any of his dear Lambs in their sufferings though but once in the likeness of sinful flesh to growe from a Child to a mans state that in himself alone he might work Redemption and leave a living example of faith and obedience temptings and sufferings to all Generations that believe and for that end was he lifted up that through him all might believe yet hath he appeared in divers forms both before his sufferings and since Mark 16. 12. wherein he is not personally absent was he personally absent from the three Children in the Furnace Dan. 3. 25 Was he personally absent from John in the I le of Patmos Reveb 1 Was he personally absent from Paul who confesseth his personall presence 2 Cor. 2. 10 Nay thy selfe sayes page 2. of thy first book that Paul with his bodily eyes did behold the person of Christ after his asscention and this thou could make use on in thy dispute to plead against any immediate Call from God and now thou would limit him to a place while he is Cease thy Imaginations about the person of Christ the Serpent is as blinde about the person of Christ as he was about the body of Moses yet will he be disputing to see if he can get in Christ is revealed in the light whose person is before the world was and by whom the world was made which light thou calls a familiar Spirit as thy Fathers called him Beelzebub so much knowes the carnall Imaginations of his person or his light wherein he leads out of the world to reveal his person to them that follow it Is not Christ whereever the right hand of God is though the blinde see him not Col. 1. 15. 16 17. was not the person of Christ with him when he made the World and by him he made it was not he at the right hand of God in Davids time Psal 110. 1. And is not he at the right hand of God in the New Creation And is not be in Christ reconciling the world unto himself whereby they become of his flesh and his bone Was it not the person of Christ that came in amongst his Disciples the doors being shut And was it not the person of Christ that said he would come again to them though he had yet to ascend Which Joh. 14. 18 23. till then the work he had to do was not wholly done and wilt thou now bind him as a man in a Chair who fills Heaven and Earth yea who is fat above all Heavens yea Ephes 4. 10. where ever the right hand of God reaches he is there and without him present he doth nothing Cease vain man thou knows not whom thou would limit who limits the word to be personally absent from Believers All the Devils in Hell cannot limit him absent from his Lambs in their greatest straits who though he be to be preacht in Heaven yet is he not to be limited from the Earth whom the Heaven of Heavens cannot contain Ephes 4. 9 10. Nor doth that place Act. the 3. limit him though it say the Heavens must receive him which the world will not but saith upon their repentance God will send him whom the Heavens hath received As in many other places his appearance is promised waiting for and received as he is in himself not in imagination and in this book thou denies him as Mediator to be in Man because the Letter sayes between God and Man thou sayes not in man thou may as well say not in God so much thou knows of him in thee Read Christs words Joh. 14. 20. if he be not in God and in Man And whereas thou would accuse me for asking thee if thou dost not deny the Resurrection of the Body in saying No man as

believed or received in others thou hast sufficiently manifested herein if thou hadst said no more nor did the Apostle speak of them that minded the light or spirit within but of them that minded earthly things minding your bellies more then the work of God as thou and thy Companions did at the dispute who broke it up because it was an hour past dinner time such are belly Gods and not they who minde the light or spirit of Christ within them And let all honest people judge what it is thy deceitful lips will not make the Scriptures speak who would make the sence of the Apostles words to intend against minding a spirituall light within whose words is of such as minde earthly things yet in this as in all other of thy deceits which thou darst not plainly a vouch thou so layes down the thing as to leave thy self a way to escape if thou be taxed for thy falshood as by thy words some pretended light opposed to Christ when any may see thy envy is at the light of Christ and his spirit within for no other do we pretend and this is not opposire to Christ as he is in Heaven but the only thing that revealeth him in spirit And thou layest down two Reasons to prove thy deceits which no Scripture will the first opposing that the Apostle did mean Earth-worms in a grosse and carnall sence and in thy second thou sayst they were walkers Brethren they had not such a form of godliness as stood in talking only but in walking also In the first whereof thou strikest at the Apostles words who said they minded earthly things but thou sayst not Earth-worms and in thy second thou strikes at uptight walking yet doth neither of them prove any thing for the further then thy confusion And thou wouldst prove me to be one whose God is my belly and the thing thou wouldst prove it withall is because I say the Apostles preached the spirit and light within shining in their hearts to give the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus and this Treasure they had in Earthen Vessels but if angred 2 Cor. 4. 6 7. they may see that instead of proving me one whose God is my belly thou hast proved thy self one whose Father is the Devill who saith the Apostle saith no such thing but saith it s my spirit of Antichrist so let plain Scripture judge which is good reason that it should be believed before thy lying spirit who goeth on to deny the spirit and light to shine into their hearts as though God would shine into their hearts without his spirit and light and such dark stuffe thou utters who knowest not his spirit and light mangling thy confusions to darken the truth as though I had said their hearts should give them the glory of God without his light and spirit when my words are with the Apostle and all the Servants of God who witness the light and spirit to give the knowledge of God without which there can be no knowledge of God which Treasure is in the Earthen Vessels which words thou leavest out lest they should have spoyled thy design in perverting the words and deceiving the simple And thou makest much adoe in thy Book to drive a believers light far distant without as far from them as to the place where Christ was crucified saying he that was crucified on the Tree was the fountain of Believers light which though he be the fountain to those who have him in them yet is he known to none but by hear-say who have him not to such the fountain is sealed therefore dost thou blind utter forth so much of thy folly who imagineth a fountain without thee but darkness within which cannot comprehend the light though in the darkness it shine and the Devill himself knowes what was done upon Mount Calvary and the wickedst men in the Nation as well as thee who hast it not in thee so you believe in a Tradition who have not the Revelation And thou makes a babling to blinde people with as that the Apostle preached not the Earthen Vessels or themselves I say those are thy own words for none else I know that intends them or mentions them but the most of thy bustling in thy Book is to wrest my words or to add to them thy own and so start a lye out of thy own bosom and when thou hast done much to do thou makes to conflite it and this pleaseth thy fancy as though thou hadst done some great thing when thou hast but confuted thy self and laid open thy solly And thou goest creeping about to make people believe that Christ is not a spirit but darst not deny it yet as thy manner is casts a mist before it Christ in spirit being that thou seeks most to oppose for nothing else discovereth the 2 Cor. 5 16. Devills seat in man and therefore said the Apostle I know him no more after the flesh and When they shall turn to the Lord the vail shall be taken away now the Lord is that spirit and where the spirit of the Lord is there is liberty 2 Cor. 3. 16 17 but this liberty breaketh the Devills Kingdom therefore his Ministers he sets to keep people without in the letter imagining a thing at a distance but to believe the appearance of Christ in spirit that is death to him and his Ministry and whereas thou tells of Christ being glorified in Heaven in your nature I say Christ was never of the nature of the lyer neither in Heaven nor on Earth though he was flesh yet it was not that which lusteth against the spirit none knowes his flesh nor nature but who knowes the word in them which thou opposeth which art full of the old Leaven and thou askestance a question of the Scriptures say the same so take thy Question back and apply it to thy self In thy first Book thou made an objection Can flesh and blood enter into the Kingdom of Heaven and thou answers No yet the same flesh and bones may the blood being powred out and gone to which answer what confused stuffe is this that proceeds from thy imaginations Is Christ ascended without blood or is it onely the blood of people that keeps the in from ascending which they must leave behinde them taking the same flesh and bones but not the same blood and in this Book thou excuses the matter with saying he is ascended without material blood and yet with the vertues of that blood I say again hath he materiall flesh and bones and not materiall blood then is he not the same that he was when he was upon earth But why dost thou not make some answer to thy other clause how people must do to get shut of their blood seeing thy faith is they cannot ascend till their blood be poured forth This being a new Doctrine which the Scripture doth not declare of it stands in need of better grounds then yet thou hast