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A22663 Saint Austins, care for the dead, or his bouke intit'led De cura pro mortuis, translated for the vse of those who ether haue not his volumes, or haue not knowlige in the Latin tungue; De cura pro mortuis. English Augustine, Saint, Bishop of Hippo. 1636 (1636) STC 918; ESTC S118839 23,389 68

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nether knew they all things but those which the diuine prouidence iudged necessarie to be reueled vnto them An diuine Scripture also testifyes that some o' the ded are sent to the liuing as contrarily that Paule was rapt from the liuing into Pararadyse For the Prophet Samuel being deceased predicted future things also to King Saul alyue althou'some are of opinion it was not hee who could be euocated by art magique but some ill spirit agreable to such an ill action which represented his person since that the bouke of Ecclesiasticus which Iesus the Sonne of Sirach is deliuered to haue writte and is affirmed to be● Salomons for some similitude in the style conteines in the commendation o' the Fathers that Samuel euen being ded prophicyed But if contradiction be made vnto this bouke by the canon o' the Iewes for it is not extant in it what shall we say of Moyses whoe certainely is red both in the Deuteronomie to haue binded in the Euangel to haue appiered to the liuing with Elias who is not ded Hence also that other question is solued vizt in what manner the Martyrs signifye by the benefits which ar conferred to those who praye that they ar present at humane businesses if the ded knowe not what the liuing doe For we haue heard not by incertaine rumors but by sure witnesses that Felix the Confessor appiered to the inhabitants of Nola which he piously loued when it was oppugned by the Barbarians not only by the effects of his benefits but also to the viewe o' the people But thiese things ar exhibited by diuine operation farre different from the vsuall course which is attributed to euerie sorte o'creature For we must not therefore not discerne the difference which is betwixt the vertue of water in its proper order of elements the raritie or rather singularitie o'th is diuine operation cause our Lord where he pleased sodainely turned water into wyne Nether bicause ded Lazarus rize again therefore euerie one ded rises when he will nor is he in the same manner reuyued by one liuing when he is astonished in which he is awaked when he is a sliepe by one who is awake Wherefore one thing is the limits of humane matters an other the signes of diuine power those things which ar naturally effected ar one those which miraculously an other althou ' God both assists nature that it may haue existence also nature is not awanting to miracles It is not thierefore to be imagined that euerie disceased person can be present at the affaires o' the liuing cause Martyrs ar present ether to cure or succore some particular people but rather it is to be knowne that Martyrs are therefore present at the affaires of the liuing by diuine power cause the deceased canot by their owne proper nature be present at the affaires o' the liuing How be it this question exciedes the powers of my intendiment how it is that the Martyrs helpe thiese who are certainely helped by them whether they by themselues are present at the same time in so diuers so farre distant places ether where their memories ar or in other places besyde their monuments where soeuer they ar knowne to be present or else whether they existing in a place agreable to their merits remote from all conuersation of mortal men yet generally praying for the necessities o' their Supplicants as we praye for the ded to whome neuer the lesse we ar not present nor knowe where they bie or what they doe God omnipotent who is present in euerie place nether commixed with vs nor remote from vs hearing the prayers of his Martyrs by Angelical Ministerie euerie way diffused exhibites to people these solaces which he iudges necessarie to be exhibited who by ineffable power and bonitie comends the merits of his Martyrs where he will when he will as he will chiefely by their memories in regarde he knowes this is expedient to the edification o' the faith of Christ for whose confession they sufferd This matter is hyer than I can atteine to more abstruse than I am able to search out therefore which o'these twoe or else whether perhaps both is so vizt that some tymes by the verie presence o' the Martyrs sometymes by Angels personating the Martyrs I dare not determine I would rather inquyre these matters o'those who knowe them nether is ther none whoe knowe these matters nor none who fieme to them selues to knowne them yet knowe them not for these ar Gods donations who liberally conferres some to one some to others according to the Apostle who affirmes that the manifestation o' the spirit is giuen to euerie one for their profitte To one quoth he is giuen by the spirit the worde of Sapience to an other is giuen by the spirit the worde of knowlige to an other the worde of science according to the same spirit but to an other faith in the same spirit to an other the guifte of cures in one spirit to an other operations of power to an other Prophecie to an other discernement of spirits to an other diuerfitie of languages to an other inter-pretation o'wordes but one the same spirit operates all theise diuyding to euerie one that which is proper to them as he pleases To whome euer is conferred the discernement of spirits he knowes these things as they are to be knowne Such a one it is to be bilieued Iohn the Monke to haue bin whome Theodosius the greater consulted touching the euent o' the ciuille warre bicause he had also the gift o'prophecie For nether doute I but that not onely euerie one in particular may haue euerie one o'these Dones but also that one may haue manie wherefore this Iohn said to a certaine woman verie Religious impatiently desyring to fie him vehemently instanceing by her husbands meanes to obteine her desyre when he refused in regarde he neuer permitted this to women goe quoth he tell thy wyfe she shall fie me the next night but in her sliepe it was performed He admonished her touching all that which a fidelious wyfe ought to be admonished Whoe when she awaked she fignifyed to her husband she had siene the man of God in such a forme as she had knowne him He who had knowlige o'th is from them related it to mie a graue noble personage who verie much deserued to be credited But if I my selfe had siene that saintlie Monke in regarde as it is reported he most patiently sufferd himselfe to be interrogated anserd most discrietly I would haue inquyred of him that which perteines to this question whether he that is his spirit in the figure of his bodie came to that woman in her sliepe as we dreame of our selues in the shape of our bodies or else he being otherwyse occupyed or if he slept otherwise dreaming whether by an Angel or in anie other manner such a vision was made that he knew
at other Curina the Smith which I aboue mentioned when he related me all these matter they also then rememberd auerred that they had heard them of him Wherefore as he sae his owne baptisme mie the Cittie Hippone the Church the fonte not in the things them selues but in certaine similitudes so also did he view some other certaine lyue persons they not knowing it Why therefore might he not viewe those ded persons they not knowing it why bilieue we not these operations to be Angelical by the dispensation of Gods prouidence who vses well both goud ill things according to the inscrutable profunditie of his iudgments whether mortal mens myndes be hence instructed or deceiued whether they be comforted or terrified as to euerie one ether mercie is to be exhibited or reuēge to be irrogated by him to whome the Church sings mercie iudgement not in vaine Let euerie one take as he please that which I wil saye If the soules o' the ded were present to the liuing did conuerse with vs when we see them in our sleepe to be silent of others my owne pious mother should noe night relinquishe me who followed me by s●ae by land that she might liue with me For God defende that she by a more happie lyfe should be made so cruell that when anie thing afflictes my harte she should not comforte her contristated sonne whome she euer vnically loued whome she would neuer sie sorie But surely that which the Sacred Psalme perfecty soundes is true bicause my Father my Mother relinquished me yet our Lord receued me If therfore our Fathers haue relinquished vs how are they present to our cares businesses An if our parents are not present who are those other ded persons which knowe what wee doe or what we suffer Isaias the Prophet sayes for thou art our Father hicause Abrabam was ignorant of vs Israel knew vs not If such great Patriarches were ignorāt of what was done touching the people o' their owne procreation to whome for their Faith in God the people of their progenie was promised how medle the ded wi'the liuing in knowing assisting them in their actions affeires How saye we that these consulted with them who dyed afore their euils happened which followed their dethes if also after deth they be sensible of all those matters which happen in the calamities of this mortall life Or peraduenture say wee this by error o●tieme those for quyet whome the inquyet lyfe o' the liuing sollicits what is therefore that which God promised for a great benefit to the most pyous King Iosias that he should dye afore least he should sie those mischiefes which he menaced futurely to happen to that place people which wordes of God are these Thus sayes the Lord God of Israel my words which thou didest heare feared afore my face whyle thou hear dest them which I spake o'th is place those who inhabit in it that it be left desolate in malediction and thou didest tiere thy garments and cryed in my conspect and hearing and the Lord of Sabath said not so loe I will put the with thy Fathers and thou shalt be placed with peace and thy eyes shall not view all those miseries which I will induce into this place and to the people which inhabite in it This King being terrifyed with Gods comminations had cryed tore his garments was secured from all future euils by the accelerations of a hastie deth that he should so rest in peace as he should not sie them Therefore the spirits of the deceased existe there where they shall not view those things which ar done or chance to people in this lyfe How then sie they their owne sepulchers or their owne bodies or whether they lie vnburied abiected How are they present at the miseries of the liuing since that ether they suffer their owne euils if such merits they haue contracted or rest in peace as was promised to this Iosias where they ●●steine no euils nether by suffering them selues nor by compassionating others freed from all those euils which they sufferd whyle here they liued Perhaps some one will saye if the ded haue no care o' the liuing how did that rich one whoe was tormented in Hell praye Father Abraham to send Lazarus to his fyue brothers yet aliue to deale with them least they also should come to the same place of torments But did the rich one bicause he said this therefore knowe what his brothers did after or suffer at that time such was his care of the liuing althou he knewe not at all what they did as we haue care of the ded althou we are quite ignorant what they doe For if we cared not for the ded surely we would not pray to God for them Finally nether did Abraham send Lazarus but anferd that they had Moyses the Prophets hiere whom they ought to heare to the end they might not come to those punishments Where it recurres to be obserued how Father Abraham knew not what hiere was done where he knew Moyses the Prophets to bee that is their boukes by obeying to whome people might auoide theinfernal torments where in conclusion he knew that rich one to haue liued in deliciousnes but poure Lazarus in labor paines For this also he saies vnto him Remēber son that thou haest receiued houd things in this lyfe but Lazarns euil Therfore he knew thiese things which verily were done about the liuing not about the ded yet not when they were done about the liuing but they being ded he might knowe them by Lazarus meanes least it should be false which the Prophet affirmes Abraham knew vs not Furthermore it is to be confessed that indied the ded knowes not what is done here but this is while it is done hiere for afterwards they heare of those who dying departe hence passe to them not indeed al things but those which they are permitted to disclose who also are permitted to remember them such as those must heare to whome they notifye them The ded also may by the Angels which ar present at those things which here ar done heare some thing which he to whome all things are subiect iudges necessarie for them to heare For vnlesse there were Angels which could be present both in the places o' the liuing the ded our Lord Iesus would not haue said it chanced that poure man dyed was caried by Angels into the bosome of Abraham Therefore they could be now here now there who caried away him whome God would haue them Also the soules of the ded may knowe some things done here which Gods Spirit reueling them are necessarie for them to know and which it is not necessarie for thē not to knowe not onely past or present but also future matters As not all sortes of people but the Prophets knewe while they liued here