dampned vnhappye which be dead in vnbeleue when they haue felt that they were depriued of the merite of his death and passion and of the grace and saluation whyche he brought vnto hys elected when they felte the yre malediction curse of God agrauated and augmented alwaye more and more vpon them but he is discended vnto hys elected when that by hys diuine vertue he hathe made them to fele the vertue and efficatie of the death whyche he suffered for them and the fruite of hys passion wherefore I do conclude that they whych do beleue that there is a Limbo for the litle childreÌ„ that be dead borne and a purgatorye other then the bloud of Iesus for to purge the soules of the fayethfull departed do not beleue that Iesus Christe discended into hell and that hys vertu should be of such efficatie that it might come and exteÌ„d vnto the dead to theyr saluation for if they did perfectly beleue that they would haue no further care for the dead but would leaue them in the haÌ„des of Iesu christe whych is sauioure of the lyttle and greate of the lyuyng and deade and woulde not thinke that the dead had any more nede of them Na We haue taried inoughe vpoÌ„ this article but in dede it was necessarie to make it somthyng more cleare for the matter was verye darke but thou hast now so wel opened it that I am satisfied wherefore let vs come vnto thys article folowynge whych sayeth The thyrde daye he rose from the dead What is the sence The resurrection of that article Phy. The same whyche we haue all readye towched speakynge of the sepulchre of Iesus Christe and of the sygne of Ionas Natha Hath he abidden thre dayes and thre nightes in the earth as Ionas dyd in the bealye of the whale Phi. It was not neadful that he shuld be in the sepulchre thre nyghtes holly it was inoughe that he did rise agayne the thyrd day after he was dead as he hath done in dede Nathanaell Was that the thyrde daye when he did aryse Phy. Yea trulye for the daye that he did giue Math. xxvii Marc. xv Luke xxiii Iohn xvi Math. xxviii Iohn xx vp the spirite whych was the euenyng of the nyght before the Iewes Ester he was buried and that was the fyrste daye of the morrowe whyche was the daye of the feaste he was all the daye in the sepulchre Then vpon the daye foloweynge in the breake of the day verye tymelye he dyd aryse and that was the thyrde day as it doeth appeare by the Euangelistes Na. Wherfore is this article put to Phy. Bycause that all the other coulde lyttle serue vs wythout thys Natha Howe so Phy. Bycause that if Iesus Christe had not risen it shoulde haue bene an euident testimonie that death had vaynquished hym that hell shoulde haue swalowed hym as it byd the chyldren of Adam Then if he had bene vainquished and had not ouercome vaynquished i. Cor. xv and gotten the victorye he had not satisfied for vs but we shoulde haue bidden stil in our synnes and in death Natha The resurrection of Iesus Christe is then a certayne testimonie of hys vertue and a sure trust hope that we shal aryse agayne wyth hym Phyli That is the cause wherfore we beleue his resurrectioÌ„ wherefore he would testifie Math. xxviii Marc. xvi Luke xxiii Iohn xix oy so many sygnes apparitions beyng after hys resurrection xl dayes conuersaâ—nte wyth hys disciples shewynge hym selfe vnto theÌ„ in drinkinge eatinge speakinge and sufferyng to touch hys bodye and hys woundes the more plainly and assuredly to proue vnto theÌ„ the resurrection of hys bodye Natha We haue then inough of oure resurrection in hys but wherefore do we saye yet more He is gone vp into heauen when is he gone vp and in what fourme and maner 〈◊〉 asceÌ„tioÌ„ 〈◊〉 Math. xxviii Phylype Fortye dayes after hys resurrection when he hadde well approued hys saâ—â—ed resurrection he dyd brynge hys disciples vnto Marc. xvi the mountaygne of Oliues and froÌ„thense dyd mounte and go vp visiblye before them whyche dyd beholde hym goynge vp vnto a cloude dyd come betwexte hym and them whyche dyd cause them to loose the syghte of hym They had also the testimonie of the Angelles sayinge that he was goone vp into heauen Nathanaell Into what heaueÌ„ vnderstandest thou that he is goone vp for thou haste shew tâ— in the first article that ther be diuers maners Ephe. iiii of heauens Phylype The Apostle doeth saye that he is goone vp aboue all heauenes for to fulfyll and accomplyshe all thynges wherfore I do vnderstand that he is gone vp into the celestiall Timo. vi glory hygher then the visible heauen and hygher then all creatures into the inaccessible lyghte where is the habitation and seate of God out of all and all maner of corruption and mortalitie Nathanaell In what sence ought we then proprelye to vnderstand this ascention Phylype I vnderstande by the same that he hath taken hys corporall presence from here Iohn xvi beneth as he hadde before sayed vnto hys disciples and that he is goone vp verylye in bodye aboue all heauenes into the glorye maiesty of God his father as it shal be more declared anoue when we shall saye He is set downe vpon the ryght hande of God the father almyghty The ryghte hand of God Nath. What vnderstaÌ„deste thou by the right hand of God Phy. I do not vnderstand that God the father is set in a feate or throne that is visible and materiall as a terrenal kynge And Iesus Christ in another by hym as his sonne or as one of hys princes Natha Howe then Phy. It is a similitude taken of humaine thynges for to gyue vs to vnderstande that as a kyng or a prynce doeth make sitte down by hym and on hys ryght hande him whom he wyll moste honour and vnto the which he wyll gyue moste power and authoritie euen so we vnderstande by these wordes that Iesus Christe is set vp aboue all creatures and that he hathe power as well in heauen as in earth and doeth raygne wyth the father hauynge Math. xxviii equall power Lordship Natha And what doeth it serue vs to beleue knowe al these thynges and in howe many wayes maye we vse theÌ„ to oure furtheraunce and profitte Phyly In diuers but to the ende I maye the better shew the by ordre bycause there be manye goodlye poyntes worthy to be towched lett vs here make an ende of thys parte and in the other nexte we shall not treate of anye other matter but of thys whyche thou haste now set forth nor shal not declare any othere article before I shall haue declared vnto the what fruites thou maiest beare of these thynges whereof we haue spoken at thys presente and howe these thynges may be vsed and applied to oure profit Natha That wyll be a day that I hope
coulde not be but in hym that was fullye endued wyth the gooddes of fortune of the bodye and of the soule whyche to fynde in anye one man it were verye harde And by thys doctrine the prophettes Thre kyndes of godnesse Apostles and true childreÌ„ of God should not be verye happye and blessed and the doctrine of Iesu Christ should not be true which doth pronounce happy and blessed the poore in spirite the aflicted and persecuted for ryghtuousnes sake and they whyche haue honger thriste and whych wepe and morne Na. Therefore there be other that haue put Math. v. Luke vi the souerayne goodnes of man in vertu Phy. Those haue well perceyued and felte the inconueniences whych I haue before touched but for all that they coulde not hytt the whytte for they dyd neuer well vnderstand what was the true vertu that might leade vnto that soueraigne goodnesse and wyth great paine did they onely atteine vnto the shadow and coulde not fynde the verye ryghte waye The soueraine goodnesse of men to leade them for they dyd alwaye leaue a maÌ„ vnto hym selfe the whyche can in no wyse fynde that same soueraygne goodnes except he go out of hym selfe Natha where wylte thou then that he shall seke it Phylippe Out of hym selfe and of al creatures Nata Thou wilt theÌ„ that he go seke it in God Phyly In whom shoulde he fynde it but in him in whoÌ„ not only it is but is him selfe that same soueraygne goodnes for thou doest knowe well that man is infasiable and that he can neuer be contente and satisfied excepte he haue all And thoughe he had the heauen and the earth the sea and all that is conteyned in them yet shoulde he not be satisfied and fylled For he should not therby haue al for he can not haue al except he haue God to whoÌ„ al thinges perteyne and be hys owne in the whyche onely he may be satisfied and perfecte accordynge to the testimonie of the prophete saying then Psal xvi shal I be filled wheÌ„ thy glorye appeareth for without hym what maye we fynde but vnhappines synne Death malediction daÌ„nation hell Nata I beleue that nowe thou hast hyt the whyte but the hardeste is yet to do for it doth not suffice to know vnto what plac ende we ought to go nor yet in what hauen or port we desire to arriue excepte we knowe the meane waie to come vnto it wherefore I desire muche that if thou knowe it that thou wilt teache it me Phy. It is necessarie that he knowe it that should teach it vnto other and there is none that can knowe it but he that hath bene there and gone the Iorney Natha There is theÌ„ no liuynge man that can know it Phy. And therfore muste we haue recourse The waye to come to soueraynge goodnes vnto God whyche wyll gyue vs a guide to leade vs and hathe all readye gyuen vs one whyche can neuer go out of the waye that is Iesus Christe hys sunne oure Soueraygne maister whyche is come downe from heauen for to learne vs the waye and brynge vs thither Mat. xxiii xi for as he hym selfe wytnesseth that none can ascend vp into heauen but he that is come Iohn iii. Iohn ix Iohn i. The lader of Iacob Gene. xxviii down from heauen namely the sonne of maÌ„ that is in heauen none can come vnto my father but bâ—me I am the gate the dore the wai the trueth and the lyte he is the true ladder that Iacob sawe standynge vpon the earth reached vp to heauen The angelles of God goinge vp downe vpoÌ„ it and the Lord god leaninge vpon it but for to make vs the waie shorter playner more esie he hath brought Deut. iii. Rom. i. vs the heauens with hym selfe and that same soueraygne goodnes in suche sorte that we nede not to pas the seas nor the mountaines nor to go any longe waye or Iorney to come vnto it neade not to go out of oure selues Ephe. iiii Colo. iii. Math. iii. Luke xvii but of oure olde adam for the kyngdome of heaueÌ„ is at hande and the kingdome of God is within vs we haue the worde neare vs in our mouthes if we can know it Na. How â—heÌ„ Phy. The maister whyche is descended from heauen and that souerayne doctor whych the celestiall father hath sente vnto vs doth teach vs thys scieÌ„ce in two wordes sayinge Thys is the lyfe euerlastynge That they do knowledge the one onely true God and hym whoÌ„e he hath sente Iesus Christe Na. Then wylte â—noledge of God then by that conclud that the souerayne goodnes of manne and his true felicitie and beatitude and the meane to vnite and knyte all meÌ„ in one selfe herte and one verye wyll is to knowe God by Iesus Christe hys sonne Phy. Thou concludest verye well Nata If there neede none other thynge at the leste all the christians should be verye happie for they do all knowe God and Iesus Christe theyr Sauiour but it is neuertheles maruayle that there is so lyttle vnitie amonge them seynge they haue all that knoweledge Phy. If they had that knoweledge wythout doubt thei should be al of one accord should be verye happye and blessed but there be very fewe that hath that knowledge as it shuld be had Nata Is there theÌ„ ii sortes to know God Phy. Euen as there is two sortes to beleue Two sortes to knowe and beleue God For to beleue in God and knowe God cometh all to one Saynte Iames doeth saye that the Deuyles beleue and tremble before the maiestie of God But they beleue not in â—mes ii suche sorte as the faythfull children of God do They beleue there is a God and do feare hym but not as the good chylde feareth hys father but as an euyl doer 〈…〉 Iudge Notwithstandynge also they do beleue ther is one God yet beleue they not God is their God that is to saye that he is theyr Sauioure and father readye benigne fauorable and mercifull and that he wyll shewe vnto them hys grace and mercy thorow his sonne Iesus Christe for so is the nature of God hys propre office And he that knoweth hym not so knoweth hym not to be hys God but doeth hold him as a cruel tyraunte the which he doeth more feare then loue for we can not knowe him to be other without Iesu Christ because that the euil coÌ„scieÌ„ce which doth fele it selfe culpable of hys Iudgmâ—t causeth him so to repute hym wherefore it is impossible that any shoulde haue the true knowledge of God suche as is required to come vnto thys soueraygne goodnes but he that hathe hym in coÌ„templation not in hym selfe nor in him The true knowledg of God to be coÌ„sidered barely in his maiestie nor in anye other habite then in this humaine fleshe whyche he hath put on by hys soone Iesus Christe in the whyche he hathe declared
hys goodnes loue mercie and tauoure towards man and it is not possible that he that knoweth hym otherwise shoulde loue hym if he loue him not he caÌ„ not willingly honour him â—or yet prompâ—lye and redelye obey hym bycause the knowledge that he hath is to muche vnperfecte for this is the true knowledg that doeth moue and enduce man to honour hym Natha And what is the true waye and maner to honour God wyll he that we offre vnto hym breade wyne candels or money calues sheepe rammes or other suche lyke thynges Phy. That were a greate blasphemie sacrilege to haue suche an opinion of God as to thynke that he whych hath made all thynges of whose hande we receyue all whyche is immortall incorruptible and in hym selfe whole and perfecte should neade or take pleasure i. Timo. ii in these corruptible thynges whyche he hath giuen vs for the sustinaunce of our pore mortall bodyes Natha Howe wylt thou then that man shall psal Cxxxv. Gene. i. Psal xv serue God And wyth what offering wil he that we present him Philip. God which hath made the sun the moone and the sters what neede hath he of our light he which onely is rich and perfect what nede hath he of our rychesse the which he him selfe hath gyuen vnto vs is he as a litle chylde whych must be appeased wyth an apple or as a mortall or corruptilbe man taking pleasure in caducte and transitorie thynges as meÌ„ do Natha What is it theÌ„ that maÌ„ may giue vnto him Phi. He requireth not that man shoulde gyue hym any thyng but that he shoulde receiue of hym for the nature of God is which our soueraine Lord is not to take but for to gyue do good vnto all Natha Wherewith shall man then serue him Phi. He can do no other seruice vnto God then doeth the pore begger blind soore lame and lazer and beynge all togyther vnprofitable askinge hys almes at the gate of a kynge or as an euyl doer thefe traytour and robber askynge hys pardon Natha Manne then hath no greate occasion to glorye in hys owne merittes Phy. And yet lesse Nathana Can man do nothynge els Phy. He neyther can nor may do that without the grace of god and his holy spirite do leade and coÌ„ducte him to the ende he shoulde haue no matter wherein to glorye but in God onely Natha That is not verye vneasye to do nor ther is no man vnto whome it shoulde not be easye ynoughe to serue hym seynge we muste but aske and begge Phy. It is more harde then it seme the for albeit that the wordes seme verye playne and easy neuertheles they compreheÌ„de great thynges the whych surmounte the humayne power Natha Expound me then those thynges Phy. Fyrst they do conteyne the inuoucation callyng vpon the name of God which is the moste greateste and moste singuler honour that we can do vnto him Natha What is there more Phy. We can not vnderstaÌ„d this inuocation wythout fayth for it is wrytten who so euer calleth vpoÌ„ the name of the Lorde shal be saued But howe shall he call vpon hym in whom he hath not beleued it doeth then followe that man can not call vpon God ryghtly wythout trusteyng in him be fully assured of his goodnes good wyll towardes hym Natha That is verye certayne Phylyp Then as thys same truste in God incite the and enduce the Gyuynge of thankes man to call vpon hys name and praye vnto hym in al necessities eueÌ„ so of the other parte doth it moue and enduce by the same to gyue thankes for all the benifites whyche he receyueth of hym knowlegynge that all goodnes proceadeth of him and that without hym maÌ„ is nothynge Here is theÌ„ an other parte of the inuocation and callynge vpon the name of God the whyche conteyneth the obeysaunce or obeydience whyche we owe vnto hys holy wyll whyche is a maner of action of graces or geuyng of thankes for from whence doth procede suche obeysaunce and all the good workes whyche the fayethfull can do in the honour of God then from the loue whyche he doth beare vnto him and it can not be loue without the knowledg of him that is beloued this loue then proceadeth of the knowledge the whyche he hath of God of hys graces and benefites whych doth incite vs patiently to put our truste al wholly in hym to abide looke for al at hys hand and to serue and honoure hym in all that we maye knowâ— to be pleasynge and acceptable vnto hym Natha True seruing of God lieth in fayth By all that I can comprehende and vnderstand al the seruice of God theÌ„ lyeth in fayth Phy. She is the fundation and sprynge for wythout hyr it is impossible to please God so can oure workes not please God excepte Hebr. xi that fyrste we be pleasaunte and agreable vnto hym for he doeth not accepte the worke bicause of it selfe but bicause of the persone â—hat doeth present it and it is not vnto hym acceptable but as the persone is vnto hym acceptable Natha He hathe then a respecte and is an acceptor of persones yet it semeth that the holy scripture saieth the coÌ„trarie Phy. That whiche I do say is not coÌ„trarie vnto the places whch thou so vnderstaÌ„dest but thou shouldest vnderstande that amonges the sonnes of men there is none whyche of hym selfe is acceptable Rom. iiâ— Act. x. vnto the celestial father but only he of whom he hath saied This is my welbeloued sonne in whome I am well pleased Seynge then that he onelye is pleasaunte vnto hym it is not to be thought that anye worckâ— Math. xiii can please hym but that whyche is done by hym for if we hated any persone he could do nothynge that mighte please vs and of the coÌ„trarye parte if we loued hym he could do nothyng that might displease vs but we would take all that he dyd in good parte if we wyll then please our celestiall father we must neither offâ—e our selues nor none other thynge to hym before we haue made appoyntmente wyth hâ—m and he receiued vs into hys grace fauour loue that caÌ„ we not obteine except we take awaye the cause whyche hath put the hate and dissention betwen vs and hym that is to saye the synne whyche can not be defaced Esaie iiii Iustification Act. xv Rom. vi xii i Cor. xii Ephe. v. Iohn vi xii and taken awaye but by the meane of Iesus Christe And therefore it is necessarie for vs to go vnto hym to be purged and made cleane and the meane to obteine thys by him is the fayeth by the whyche our hertâ—s be purified and we Iustified that is to say absolued and declared and pronounced Iuste before the iudgemente of God bycause that by the same fayeth we be vnite and conioyned wyth Iesus Christe beynge all membres of hys bodye vnto the whyche hys membres he doeth communicate all hys goodes
and i. Cor. i. Ephe. ii Gala. ii The rote of â—â— good workes Iohn v. Rom. xi maketh vs partakers of hys obeydience and ryghtuousnes so that it serueth nother more nor lesse then if it were oure owne propre Inasmuche then as Iesus Christe is in vs and we in hym that hys rightuousnes is ours and liueth in vs and dwelleth in oure hertes by fayeth and by hys holye spirite it is very certayne that that fayth can not be idle without bryngynge forthe good fruite seyng theÌ„ that he is the true vyne and good olyue tree vpon the whyche we be planted and graffed it is impossible but the fruite which we beare or bryng forth and the worke whyche we do shoulde not be to hym acceptable because of the good rote out of the whyche they spryng and bicause the celestiall father reknowledgeth the worke of hys sonne in vs for whose loue he doeth beare the imperfection whyche abydeth al wayes in oure fleshe durynge thys mortal life but it is cleane coÌ„trarie of the Infidels and reproued whyche can not be acceptable vnto God nor no workes that they can do bycause they be wythout Iesus Christe without whoÌ„ non caÌ„ be beloued of the father Nathana I do vnderstande nowe the cause whye the holye scripture doeth attribute the Iustification of man vnto fayeth and giue it so great prayses and who so euer vnderstode thys poynte as thou haste declared it should haue no occasion to be so much offended with thys doctrine as some be for they saye when the Iustification of fayeth is preached wythout Sclaunder oâ— Iustification by fayth the workes of the lawe that they wyll abolish and put awaye good workes Phylype They vnderstande verye euyl but that sclaunder doeth come of the doctryne of the Sophysters and hypocrites whyche hath learned menne to put the wayne before the oxeÌ„ as the prouerbe goeth to builde without fundation wherefore when they shoulde be reformed and otherwyse taught they do find it a newe and strange doctrine bycause they haue bene norished in suche a contrarye way Natha Tell me thys some thyng more clearlye The tre can not beare good fruite except Math. xii it be fyrste a good tre And therfore the good fruite doeth not make the tre good but the good tree makethe the fruite good but they wyll haue the fruite before the tre and wyll make the tre good by the fruite which is impossible Natha Thou speakest yet somthyng darkely Phy. Thou shalt haue it more clearlye They wyll haue rightuousnes in a man before it be in hym and wyll that he doeth workes of Iustice and ryghtuousnes and by the same to be Iustified But howe shal he do the workes of Iustice excepte he hym selfe be fyrste iuste and that can he not be but by the Iustice and ryghtuousnes of Iesus Christe and that can not he obteine but by fayth wherfore wyth good ryght is the honour of Iustification gyuen vnto fayth seynge that she is the rote and fundation of the same and of all good workes the whiche proceadeth of the same rote Nata I vnderstaÌ„d this now welynoughe but in as muche as fayeth hath such vertue declare vnto me what fayeth is Phy. Fayeth is a certayne and assured knowledge and a fyrme perswation and truste of the loue and mercy of God towardes vs for the loue of Iesus Christe hys sonne Natha A manne whych wyll haue thys faieth whole and perfitte what is he bounde to beleue Phylip. Al that is conteyned in the holye scriptures but The summe of fayth because that thys doctrine of fayeth is ample and large it is drawen into a briefe and shorte summe for the healpe sucoure of the weakenes and infirmitie of the humaine vnderstandynge and the memorie of the pore and simple people Natha What vnderstandest thou by that shorte summe is it the crede of the Apostles Phy. It is the verye same Nathana Wherfore is it called the Crede of the Apostles Phy. Bycause it is a short summe of the doctrine Apostolyke and a whole some conteynynge in fewe wordes the principal poyntes and articles of the fayth and christian religion Natha I desyre muche that thou woldest declare it vnto me poynte by poynte for it doeth not suffice to can saye it by herte and confesse it wyth the mouthe speakynge as the pies wyth out vnderstandynge what we do saye Phy. It is verye certayne that the confessioÌ„ of the mouth profiteth litle except it procede of faith froÌ„ the herte Nata That vnderstand I well and therfore do I desyre to haue a more playne vnderstandynge for howe can I perfectly beleue that which is coÌ„teined therin without the vnderstaÌ„ding of it for it is not possible that in those fewe wordes shoulde be comprehended al the apostolyke doctrine but it conteyneth greate matters and many goodly poyntes worthy to be well expounded and opened Phylype Thou takeste it not a misse and seynge the good desyre that thou haste I am verye well contente to satisfie the same but nowe I haue no conueniente leysure for it caÌ„ not be so shortely done wherefore thou shalte haue a litle patience vnto anone when I shall haue a more conueniente leysure the better to satisfie thy desyre Nata That is very resonable reasoÌ„ doeth require that I which would be taughte take the tyme whyche seameth to the moste mete but if thou â—arye longe I will come put the in remembraunce Phy. Thou shalt do well and fare thou wel to oure nexte meatynge God conducte and brynge the agayne shortlye ⧠In thys seconde dialoge is declared the fyrste parte of the Crede of the Apostles in the whyche is spoken of the trinitie and vnitie of God and pryncipallye of the father and of the proprietie vnto hym distributed and of the creation of all thynges and what fruite we oughte to beare NAthanaell I trust thou hast not forgotten the promise thou made vnto me therfore I am come to put the in remembraunce Phy. If thou haddeste not come I determined to haue come to the but thou hast preuented me Natha The greate desire that I haue to here vnderstaÌ„de the thinges that we haue communed of togither hath enflamed and steared me forward Phy. If thou haue a greate desire to heare I haue no lesse to expounde and confarre wyth the for what communication maye we deuise more honest and profitable or for better recreation then to common of oure fayth religioÌ„ and of the goodnes mercie of God toward vs. Natha There is no doubte and therfore I praye the begyn to enter into the matter Phy. The better to reduce al thinge by ordre recite firste the Crede to the ende that wyth freshe memorye we maye well considre that whyche it doeth conteyne in generall and after we shal expound it by particulers Nathanaell I beleue in God the father almyghtye maker of heauen and earth And in Iesu Christ hys onely sonne our Lord
which was coÌ„ceiued by the holie goste borne of the virgin marie suffred vnder ponce pilate was crucâ—fied dead buried desceÌ„ded into hel the thyrd day he rose againe froÌ„ death he asceÌ„ded into heaueÌ„ sitteth on the right haÌ„d of God the father almighty from thense he shal come to Iudge the quycke and the deade I beleue in the holye Gost the holy Catholike church the communion of sayntes the forgyuenes of synnes The resurrection of the bodye and the lyfe euerlastynge AmeÌ„ Phy. The better to deuide these matters for the healpe of the memory we wil deuide the crede al generally in foure principal partes thei of the .iiii. partes that shal be most tedious loÌ„ge we mai deuide wher it shal seme vnto vs most mete for the playner vnderstandyng and the better to kepe all thynges in memorie And in the first shal be spoken of God in generall of the person of the father of the creation of all thynges In the seconde of Iesus Christ our Lord and of oure redemption In the thyrde of the holye Goste In the fourthe of the churche of the thynges vnto hyr apperteyning Nata Thys ordre shal be very good let vs therfore come vnto the fyrste parte what vnderstandest thou wheÌ„ thou saiest I beleue Phy. That I do put my whole confidence truste hope What it is to bâ—â—â—ue to hym in whom I beleue trustynge in hym wyth all my herte abydynge and lokinge to receyue of hym onely ayde succour saluatioÌ„ lyfe and al good thynges Natha Thou doeste Psal xiiii then confesse that thou trusteste al whollâ— in hym and in none other Phy. It is so for it is tru that who so euer trusteth in him shal not be deceuyed nor confounded and I say I beleue because that none other can beleue for me Natha It semeth bi thy words that thou wylt affyrme that faith doth not serue but to him that hath it that it profiteth not to another but vnto hym whose it is Phy. I denye In what the fayth of other may profitte not but the fayth of other may serue for prayer vnto God for me for my conuercion and my sinnes and for to presente me vnto hym aske of hym my saluation as we haue example in the sicke of the palseye but if I haue not fayth also in my selfe I can not receyue it Natha What sayest thou then of theÌ„ whiche forseth not to vnderstand and knowe the doctrine of fayth but doeth suffice them to saye I beleue in the holye mother church I beleue that whych the holye churche beleueth albeit they knowe not what she beleueth and doth truste more in the fayth of other then in theyr owne Phy. The prophet hath learned me to speake and fele otherwise when he hath sayd the Iuste shall lyue by hys fayeth wherefore I do conclude that euen as I can not lyue by the soule and life an other but of mine owne that also my soule can not lyue by the fayeth of other but by hys own faith whych giueth hym lyfe as the soule to the bodye Natha Seynge then that the faith doth vinifie man it muste then be lyuelye and that the fayeth whyche is deade is no fayeth Phy. Yes it is fayth as a deade man is a man wythout hauynge lyfe mouynge nor felynge wythout whych thynges man can not be man but a deade carion or els it is fayeth as a paynted fyre is a fyre wythout heate clearnes or light whyche be thynges impossible and contrary to theyr nature Natha They their whyche doeth saye they beleue wythout knoweynge what they do beleue and seâ—tel them selues at all aueÌ„ture vpon the fayth of other haue not the ryght fayeth Phy. What fayth may that be whyche hath no fundation nor ground vpon The fundation of fayeth the promises of God beynge ignoraunt of theÌ„ for the tru faieth hath for his ground fundation the promise of God and his word wythout the whiche it can not be fayth Natha What is it then Phy. If thou wylte call it fayth and abuse the worde we may cal it fayned paynted historicall or deade faieth For faith can we not rightlye call it in suche sorte as the holye scripture doeth take and vnderstand the worde fayeth wherefore if thou wilt cal it by more propre names thou maiste call it fantasie or foleish opinion or els temerite and presumption Natha I am inoughe satisfied in thys poynte tell me then nowe what is that God in whoÌ„e thou beleuest for I haue determined thus to examine the point by poynte not as an inquirar of thy fayeth to examine thy fayth and thy conscience but for to learne and to be taught of the. Phy. Thou demaundeste of me a thynge the whyche no vnderstanding can comprehend nor any tong open accordynge to hys dignitie Nathanaell Wherefore theÌ„ callest thou hym God if ther be no tongue that can setforth his name Phy The name of God It is very certaine that mani names be attributed vnto him of al people tonges natioÌ„s but there is none that maye perfectlye diffine and declare hys hature hys essence hys dignitie vertue and maiestie Natha To what purpose serueth then those names Phy. For to healpe and succoure the humayne infirmitie vnto the whyche muste be set forth and described suche thynges as it may comprehend and knowe for hys saluation Natha Seyng ther is no name in heaueÌ„ nor in the earth worthy nor sufficient vnto hys maiestie at the lest declare vnto me what thou vnderstandest by the name whyche thou gyuest vnto hym and other lyke Phylype I vnderstande not a creature mortall visible and corruptible but a spirite whyche is not created but eternall wythout What god is Iohn iiii Esaie â—l xx Psal xv ende or beginnynge a maiestie essence diuinite power wisdoÌ„ goodnes mirable infinit a soueraine goodnes hauing all in him selfe hauynge no neade of anye maner of thynge beynge sufficiente vnto hym selfe and to all creatures of the whyche he is onelye the author creatour gouernour coÌ„seruator Natha Wherefore doest that call hym likewyse father almyghtye Phy The better to declare and open that whyche I haue sayed Nata The name of father howe is it semiâ—g or appropried vnto God Phy. It is semynge vnto hym for dyuers causes and reasons the firste for asmuche as Wherfore god is called father Ephe. i. he is father of oure Lorde Iesus Christe And after bycause that he is author of all thynges and of the whyche deffendeth all fatherheade as well in heauen as in earth and singularlye bycause that he is of a moste fatherly affectioÌ„ toward hys elected vnto whoÌ„ he doeth shewe hym selfe as a moste louynge father toward hys chyldren and doeth holde and take them for hys for the loue he beareth vnto Iesus Christe hys natural sonne Natha Expounde me al these poyntes by perticulers and tell me fyrste howe he is father of oure Lorde Iesus Christe and howe Iesus Christe is the
sone of God Phy. This place shoulde be better intreated in his place in the seconde parte of the crede in the whych Iesus Christe is clearlye called the sonne of God but in as muche as thou requirest now the exposition of it I am content to satisfye thy desyre for the matters be after suche sorte conioyned togyther that it is verye harde to seperate them and it is almoste all one to declare it here in the fyrste parte and in the seconde so that whyche shall be here towchede hath no neade to be here resited but shal serue for the one the other if there be any more in this matter to be opened for to obteine the more vnderstandinge we may passe the more lyghtlie ouer and neede not to tarye so longe vpon it for there shal be mough of other matters to be treated of And for to answer vnto thy question Iesus Christe is the sonne of The eternall generation of Iesus Christe Iohn i. God accordynge to hys diuinitie bycause that he is begotten of the father eternallye is one selfe essence and substaunce wyth hym and accordynge to hys humanitie forasmuch as wythout seede of corruptible man synne he was conceiued in the wombe of the virgin by the operation of the holye Goste Natha Thou openest vnto me secreted very darke and harde to be vnderstande for if Iesus Christe be God howe can he be begotteÌ„ Deu. vi Psal xvi Rom. i. of the father howe is it possible that God shoulde beget God seynge he is not but one immutable and incorruptible Phylipe I do well confesse that these misteries surmounteth oure vnderstandynge and be incomprehensible vnto the humayne fragilitie therefore be they called misteries that is to say secretes hidden and darke but we may not conceiue here a carnall opinion vnworthy of the maiestie of God by these wordes as thoughe we spake of mortall men Natha Wherfore spake we so then Phy. Because that for lache of words more proper and meete vocables The manour of speakynge of the scripture we becoÌ„strained to borowe these of the common language of men to th ende that by humayne and easy similitudes we may declare the thynges celestiall and deuine whyche do excede the capacitie of oure rude vnderstandynge whiche can not coÌ„prehende any higher laÌ„guage Natha What similitude and comparison hath the begettynge or generation of the sonne of God wyth that of the carual father and of his sonne Phy. We must fyrst in thys consideration and application cast away and reiecte all absurde straunge and carnall cogitations thoughtes And we muste not here dreame of suche begettynge or generation as the poetes attribute vnto their Gods Na. OpeÌ„ vnto me that similitude as thou vnderstandest it Phy. Euen as the chylde is begotten of the father of his proper substance vnto his Image and lykenes of suche substance Ieremi xxxii Collos i. Hebre. i Ihon. xiiii and nature as he is and doth take his name of him being called man as he is eueÌ„ so Iesus Christe is trulie called God beinge the Image of the father of his substance and nature representynge the father as the true and naturall chylde after suche sorte that he that seeth the sonne seeth the father Natha There is then generation corruption in the diuine nature Phy. In this there is a great difference betwene the generation of God of meÌ„ And we must not stretehe the similitude comparison to make it answer to al pointes to applie it in all thinges wyth the humayne generation Na. Howe muste we then vnderstande this Phy. MaÌ„engeÌ„dreth his childe of corruptible seed because he is corruptible And of necessitie the father must be before the child But in God it is al otherwise Na. Shew me the difference Phy. It is not possible for me to coÌ„prehende this nor vnto any creature liuing nor to caÌ„ open that whiche I do vnderstande feele beleue herein But I shal assay to make the thing sumthing more open by humaine similitudes albeit there is no coÌ„parison of the creature vnto the creatour Na. I desire much to haue a more cleare vnderstandinge of this place of the which many do speake wythout vnderstanding it Phy. There is no creature whiche doeth not represent his creatoure and Creatures Images of the creator the worde vertue of the same by the which all thynges be made Wherfore we wyll take the sunne whiche is a cleare Image and manifest vnto all men for to make vs thys the more easie folowing the example of the auncient wryters whyche haue wyllyngly vsed thys comparison Nathana The thynge A similitude of the sunne pleaseth me veri well Folowe thy purpose Philippe As the sunne casteth hys beames whych be engendre◠〈…〉 forthe of him by the which he syghteth is 〈…〉 â—â—nifest vnto men he gyueth clearnes and syght vpon the earth he doeth norishe and vinifie all thynges yet neuer was nor neuer shall be without the same his beames albeit they be engeÌ„dered Hebr. ii Colo. i. Ephe. i. of hym nor they wythout hym lykewyse Euen so Iesus Christe is the beames splendor glorye and Image of the father after suche sorte begotten of him that neuer the father hath bene wythout hym nor he wythout the father and by hym wâ—se and knowe the father as we know the sonne by hys beames by him the father doeth illuminate saue norishe and vinifie vs and by the holye gost proceadynge of hym and of the sonne as the heate and vertue of the sunne Natha Notwythstandynge that no similitude nor comparison can be hygh inough propre nor worthye to discriue suche a maiestie neuertheles thys same doeth not seeme verye vnpropre Phy. But we must alwaies vnderstaÌ„d that in god ther is neither accideÌ„t norqualitie but al that is in him is god thing most substaÌ„cial conuement vnto hys nature and diuine essence in the whyche we haue to considre the father whyche is as the roote originall the fountayne beginnynge and the fyrste cause of all and after hys sonne whych is his worde and hys eternal wisdome not that we shoulde vnderstaÌ„de tha◠〈…〉 Christ should be only 〈…〉 â—orde spoken in the aâ—re whyche Iohn i. Prouer. viii vanisheth and sodaynly is gone or wryten in any corruptible boke or storye But bycause that man doth gyue knowlege of that which is in hys herte and opeÌ„ hys thoughtes by his worde whyche is the Image of hys vnderstaÌ„dynge and mynde for to represente and open the same vnto other the scripture also doeth call Iesus Christe the eternall worde of God bycause that by hym God doeth open hym selfe vnto men as we do open and make manifeste oure hertes by oure wordes But thys worde is not a voice or sounde or a corporall or corruptible thynge whyche may perishe in God as it is in vs but doeth abyde alwayes in God and is substancial and of suche a nature as he whyche hathe begotten hym is
he is also the holye Goste whiche is hys vertue and power and is after suche sorte extended ouer all the worlde and shede forthe vpon all thynges that yet he doth not leaue nor is seperated but doeth abyde alwayes in hym selfe which doth fulfil the heauen and in the earth Natha Euen so do I vnderstande but let vs come vnto the other reason wherfor thou callest How God is father of all creatures him father Phy. Because that as the sonne doth take his being his begining his life his norishment and all that he hath of his father beinge also afterwarde brought vp gouerned of hym euen so al creatures take their beinge and conseruation of God whyche by his prouidence and fatherly goodnes doeth conducte and gouerne nourishe vpholde all the creatures whiche by his inestimable power he hath created and speciallye Man for whom he hath created al thynges and whom he hath adopted and chosen for his chyldren and heires by Iesus Christe oure Lorde Na. Doth it not suffice to call hym creatour of al thynges Phy. The name of the father doeth beare and conteyne muche more For al be it that God is creatour of al thynges yet doth he not cal hym selfe father of al creatures but of mā And not of al men generally as of his chosen and elected For he doeth not call hym selfe properly father of al men Of the which he is creatoure but of them onely whyche he hath elected loued boughte and saued in his sonne Iesus Christ whyche he doth holde for his chyldren and gyueth vnto thē his immortal inheritance As the father maketh his sōne his heyre whyche he doth not vnto the reproued and euyll Yet neuerthelesse he doth nourishe keepe and defende them as he doeth the beastes and other creatures And that principally for two reasons The fyrste is the better to declar hys inestimable goodnes which is so greate that there is no creature what soeuer it be howe vyle abiecte and lytle so euer it can be vnto the whyche he woulde not the same hys goodnes should extende and shuld feele of it Yea euen hys enemies whyche do blaspheme hym of the whyche neuerthelesse taketh he yet the care and charges pursuyng and folowynge them wyth hys fauourable goodnesse for to ouercome the malice of their hertes The other reason is because of hys elected vnto the whyche he maketh all thynges to serue And for the whyche he doeth vpholde all other creatures and doeth spare euen the euyl to the ende his chyldren shoulde haue no hurte nor perishe wyth them But he hath an other maner of care of hys elected and chosen and hath called them vnto a more greater blessynge and benediction then vnto that whyche is commune vnto vs wyth the brute beastes And therefore wyll he not onelie be called and holden of vs as oure creatoure but also for father to the ende that we maye be assured that not onelie we holde Math. v. i. Timo. iiii oure lyfe and byrth of hym but also that he hath a singuler loue towardes vs and more then a fatherlie affection whyche neuer doth forgette forsake refuse nor reiecte hys chyldren but hathe a perpetnall care for to keepe and saue for to healpe and succoure them in all theyr necessities and in all daungers and peryles Natha Accordynge to thyne exposition the name of father attributed vnto God doeth not onelye comprehende the creation but also The prouidence of God hys prouidence and the infinite goodnes whyche is in hym of the which doeth folowe that they whyche denye the prouidence of God makynge hym careles takynge frome hym the thought care and charg of hys creatures beleueth hym not to be a father Phy. They beleue not God to be God but do make hym more in humayne cruell then the pore queane that came to Solomōs iudgmente yea then the Dogges wolues Lions and all other wylde beastes Natha Howe so Phi. The pore queane hath care for hyr childe beyng moued of pity and cōpassiō towarde it the wylde beastes norishe and defende theyr litle yonge on s take such care and thought for thē that many times ther suffere them selues to be slayne to saue them and shall God then forget the worke of hys owne makynge and not care for hys owne propre chyldrene which he doth more loue thē euer any mother loued hirs wher should be thē that soueraign goodnes what God or father shoulde he be if he shoulde forsake hys chyldren after they were borne and suffre thē to perish the true christians knoweth no suche God but doeth leaue hym to the Epicures Natha Certaynely we be maruelously blynded if we can not cōsidre that but wherefore puttest thou to it almyghtye Phy. For to Esaie xl xlix shew that he differeth far from our carnal fathers which cā do nothing of them selues but he may do al that he wil both in heauē and in earth Natha And to what purpose doeth it serue vs to knowe that he is almightye Phy. That knowledge doeth beare bringe a greate assuraunce into oure consciences for beyng assured that he is oure father that hath adopted and chosen vs by hys sonne Iesus Christ we nede not doubt of hys good wyll and fatherlye affection towarde vs seynge then that we be assured of hys good wyll we neade not feare but that he wyll put it in execution seynge he is almyghtye and hathe the power Natha It is very hard and difficile for a mā to do anye thynge excepte he haue these two thynges togyther that is to saye the wil and the power for the wyll wythout the power what can it profitte and to what purpose shal the power be enployed if the wyl be not ther. Phylype And therfore when we call hym father we cōfes alredi the assurāce that we haue of hys wyll towarde vs and to the ende we shoulde abyde and knowe that hys wyll is not vayne wythout puttynge anye thyng in affecte we attribute vnto hym almyghtye the whych thynges do teach vs that he is not as a mortal man whyche often woulde and can not Or like vnto a tyraunt or some rych man of power whych might do much if he would but his wyll not answerynge or agreing vnto his power Nathanaell It foloweth then of that whych thou sayst that God doth not keepe hys power in hym selfe as the couetous man or vsurar doeth his ryches in hys treasurie or coffers wythout distributinge any to any man But doth continually exersice hys power and goodnes amonge hys creatures Phi. So would I haue sayed that al creatures be vnto hym subiectes at his disposition And doeth cōducte gouerne them as it pleaseth hym And none cā hinder hym Nathanaell Seinge it is so thou mayest well Psal viii Ephe. i. Hebre. ii Psal Cxiii saye that that knowledge doth brynge great reste vnto our consciences For if we could so sirmelie beleue thys wyth oure hertes as we do easelie confesse it wyth oure mouthes
thyrd we shall set forth the fruite whyche of these thynges cometh vnto vs. In the forthe we shall speake of hys bodye glorified and of hys last commynge tell me then what foloweth and shewe vpoÌ„ what poyntes thou desierest most large and easye declaration Natha It doeth followe I beleue in Iesus Christe hys onely Beleue in Christe sonne oure Lorde etc. how vnderstandest thou thys and what is the sence of these wordes Phy. They signifie that I do truste all holye in Iesus Christe the true sonne of God and that I beleue in hun as in the father that bi hym the father hath deliuered me from death and eternall damnation and hathe reconsiled me vnto hym selfe receyued me vnto hys fauour by hys welbeloued sonne whyche hath satisfied for me vnto hys Iustice and hath obteyned me eternall lyfe Natha Thou confesseste then that Iesus Christe is God seynge thou beleueste in hym for thou haste already sayed that we muste not put our truste but in one only God Phylype If I dyd not beleue that he were trulye God of one selfe essence power and equalitie with the father I shoulde be vnhappye to beleue or truste in hym seyng that the prophet doeth pronounce Iudge Cursed Ieremi xvii be he that doeth truste in man and taketh flesh for hys arme Natha And Iesus Christ is he not man Phylype He is verye man and in all thynges hathe been lyke vnto vs excepte synne but he is not simplie man as we be but beyng made manne is neuertheles alwayes verye God and the verye sonne of God as alreadye it hathe bene expounded wherefore when I do say in the begynning of the Crede I beleue in God I do speake say ingeneral that which afterwarde I do more playnlye expresse and opeÌ„ declaryng howe that in the essence of one God in one deitie I do recognise and confesse the father the sonne and the holy Goste thre personnes in one selfe substaunce diuinitie Natha Thys same is meruelouse hye and difficullte to be comprehended For howe can I perceyue and vnderstande them to be thre and yet neuertheles they be but one Phylype Wee muste not be abasshed if these mistiries surmounte the capacitie of oure vnderstandynges for if we can not knowe oure selues nor the lest creature that is in the world perfectly and such as he is in hys nature no not so muche as a litle mouse or a litle grasse or herbe whyche we do euerye daye se howe is it possible that we shoulde perfectlye know the creatour of all the worlde and is not able to be comprehended but is incomprehensible vnto all creatures yea vnto the Angels themselues Nathanaell I do confesse it but canste thou not by summe maner of speakyng more clearly gyue lyght vnto these thyngs so profound and darcke Phy. I can not but by the printes impressions Images of God whyche God hath put of hys Image in hys creatures I wyll shewe as it were a shadowe but as for to paint him liuelye it is not possible vnto maÌ„ we can not better remeÌ„bre nor knowe hym then in theÌ„ portreture which he hathe made vs of hym selfe in hys holye scriptures and in the lyuely Images whyche he hath portretured wyth hys hande and imprinted in hys creatures as I haue all readye declared vnto the an example of the sunne Natha I take greate pleasure in suche similitudes and comparisous and principally bicause thou hast shewed me that the auncieÌ„t doctours of the church haue willinglye vsed the same could not find am other more coÌ„uenieÌ„t Phy. Wythout goynge or sekynge anye further let vs abide in the sunne fyrst when thou beholdest it thou seeste there is but one in all the worlde whyche neuertheles is sufficiente vnto all creatures and notwythstandynge that it is but one creature of God and one Image of that greate fountayne of al lyghte which is in the father of lyght Neuertheles it is not possible vnto the humayne eyes to comprehende it and caste hys loke stâ—ayâ—e into hym for if he do loke ryghte into hym hys greate clearnes and lyght wyl take hys syght frome hym and make hym in maner all blyude bycause that the littlenes weaknes and infirmitie can not beare it then if the eye whyche is created of God for to receiue lyght can not beholde the sunne in his substaunce nor beare hys lyghte how should the humayne vnderstandynge whyche is so streite and weake coÌ„prehend the great kynge of glorye and maiestie whyche compreheÌ„deth in hym selfe al creatures and can not be comprehended of them all togither suche as he is in hys maiesty Natha Here is all readie manye goodlye properties to gyue vnderstandynge what we maye knowe of God Phy. There is yet other considerations for all be it thou seeste but one sunne in hys substaunce yet neuertheles thou canste not se nor considre it but thou shalt se thre thynges the whyche can not be seperated the one from the other caÌ„ not be the one without the other yet neuertheles the one is that the other is yet alwayes the same is but one selfe sunne Natha It is verye true that when I considre the sonne I do se it an original grounde and fountayne of lyght the whyche neuertheles I can not se but by hys beames and by hys clearnes nor feele it but by his heate vertu Phy. Thou doest experiment in thys sâ—dane contemplation and apprehendyng one sunne doest fal into an vnitie after incontineÌ„t out of that vnitie thou falleste agayne into a trinitie in suche sorte that it doeth seme vnto the that there is three thynges and after consideringe thre thou coÌ„mest agayne in the ende alwaye to one and further if one shoulde aske the of the bodye of the sunne what it is what wouldest thou answer Natha That it is the sunne Phy. And if one shoulde aske the also of hys beames and of hys heate wouldeste thou not call it also the sunne Natha That is certayne for wheÌ„ his beames or hys heate or hys clearnes do enter into any place we do saye the sunne is entered and if by the heate of the sunne anye thyng be doÌ„e we do say the sunne hath done it Phy. Thou doeste se theÌ„ how it semeth that thou makeste thre sunnes and yet thou knowest nor doeste not confesse alwaies but one Nata It is true but maye we saye so of God the father the sonne and the holye Goste Phy. As well may we when we speake of the sonne and of the holy Goste cal them Goddes as we maye the heate and clearnes of the sunne the sunne But there is in this a greate differeÌ„ce for that which is a qualitie a thing accidental in the sunne is in God essence and a thynge essentiall and substanciall abyding alwayes resident in hym And euen as we do take a similitude and comparison of the sunne so may we do lykewyse of the humain Comparison taken of the soule soule for
vnto the infideles and hypocrites for they maye wel hold them selues for assured that theyr infidelitie hypocrisie shall be distroyed and theyr glory shal be turned into shame and confusion And in asmuche as we be coÌ„men thus far forth it doeth seme vnto me that these mattiers haue bene sufficientlye declared and al the misterie of our redemption after such sort that I hold my selfe verye well satisfied for my part and bicause I feare to make the werye wyth takynge ouer muche of the at once let vs here make a reste to an other tyme. Phylyp Thou canste not make me werye in suche mattiers yet neuertheles I am coÌ„tente to folowe thyne aduice Farewell Natha To God I commende the vnto whoÌ„ I praye to gyue vs suche grace that we maye at that greate daye of Iudgmente be found blameles and irreprehensible by the fauour merites of Iesus Christe Phy. So be it ⧠In these ii laste diologes is opened the other parte of the crede the which do concerne the holy Goste and the church wherein is declared that whyche appertayneth to the one and the other and is shewed what is the true churche of Iesu Christ what is hyr polesie ministration what goodes she receiued of him Nathanaell IN as muche as we haue done the greatest parte Phylype I shall desyre the to haue pacience and to take the paine to expound vnto me the reste that we maye se the end of thys mattier Phy. It is reason and I wyll not deuye the my payne seynge it bryngeth â—o lesse consolation vnto me then to the. Natha It semeth vnto me that there be yet two partes to be declared the one of the holye Goste and the other of the churche Phyly It is true but we maye well conioyne that of the holye Goste wyth that of the churche go forth as we haue begonne Natha It doeth folowe I beleue in the holye Beleue in the holy gost Goste it is no further neade that I shoulde aske howe thou vnderstandeste thys for by that thou haste alreadie declared vnto me the fayeth thou haste in the father and in the son I vnderstande wel thou confesseste that thou putteste all thy truste in the holye Gooste And that thou beleueste that by the same the father and the sonne doeth sanctifie the as by Iesus Christe thou art iustified by the vertu of the same holye spirite Phylype It is true Natha Notwythstandynge I vnderstande that yet woulde I verye gladlye thou wouldeste expounde me more largelye what thou vnderstandest properly by thys holy spirite Phy. The same vertue power mouynge and efficatie of God by the which the father and The holy gost the sonne worketh in vs nourisheth viuefieth as we haue all readye sayed in declaryng oure fayeth of the father and the sonne Natha In asmuche as thou beleueste in him thou holdeste hym for a God as wel as thou doeste the father the sonne Phy. Yea wythout doubte for I vnderstande not by thys anye maner of thyng out of god or besyde God but in God of hys propre substaunce Na. Wherefore callest thou hym spirite the father the sonne be they not also spirite seinge thou confesseste they be God that Iesus Christe doeth openlye testifie that Ihon. iiii God is a spirite the whyche muste be honored in spirite and trueth Phy. I deme not but God is a spirite and so by consequence the father the sonne but we must first considre The signification of the word spirite what is the signification of thys sayinge spirite and whether we speake of the essence and vnitie of God or of the distinctions which be in the same which the auncient fathers haue called the persones of the trinitie Natha And what is the propre signification of thys same vocable spirite Phy. I haue saied before that maÌ„ caÌ„ not find propre wordes as to speake of diuine thinges but muste borowe them of humayne thynges by similitude of the same declare the thynges celestiall and spirituall Natha I remeÌ„bre it well but tel me theÌ„ what is the natural significatioÌ„ of this same word and howe it agreeth wyth God Phy. Spirite signifieth properlie inspiration blowing wynd bycause ther is nothinge more subtille amonge corporall thynges nor that lesse can be perceiued by vewe or syghte theÌ„ the wind and the spirite it is ofteÌ„ tasteÌ„ in the scriptur for to signifie the things inuisible diuine Na. Therefore I thinke we call the soule vnderstaÌ„ding spirit not that it should be taken but for a wind but bicause it is inuisible sodaynd lyght as the wynd Phy. EueÌ„ so likewise God is called a spirite not that we shuld thinke that he were nothing eles but a wynde whych passeth but to make vs vnderstand that we ought not to Imagin that he shoulde be anye maner of thynge visible materiall or mortall but one nature essence perfecte inuisible incorruptible and immortall whyche wyll also be serued with the herte and theÌ„ soule of the spirite and vnderstandynge whyche be immortall not wyth ceremonies corruptible thinges Nathana Accordynge to thys signification the father the sonne and the holye Gooste be then al called spirite and all for one cause but expounde vnto me wherefore thou calleste more perticularlye the holye Gooste spirite then thou doest the father and the sonne Phy. WheÌ„ I behold the diuine esseÌ„ce vnitie of god I call them al spirites but when I coÌ„sidre the personal distinction of the whych we haue spoken here before I do then principally call the thyrde personne spirite bycause that worde doeth better open hys propertie then anye other we can fynde Thou muste also vnderstand that often tymes in the scripture The holie spirite for hys gyftes and graces Esai xi i. Cor. xii the holye Goste is taken not for the essence substaunce of hym selfe but also for hys giftes and graces Nath. Wherfore callest thou hym holye Phy. For to deserue hym from creatures and for to declare that I speake of that vertue power and mouynge of God whych is in God by the whych the father by his sonne Iesus doeth sanctifâ—e saue and vinifie vs. Nathana What callest thou holy Phy. A thynge pure and ferme seperated froÌ„ all corruption pollution and from all prophane carnal vsage a thing whole entier and inuiolate and all togyther dedicate vnto God I â—al theÌ„ the holy gost because he is such in dede and that by hym God in Iesu Christ sanctifieth maâ—ne that is to saye he purgeth maketh cleane consecrateth and dedicateth hym whollye to hym lelfe seperatynge hym from all vyle and prophane vsages to serue The christian sayutes onelye vnto hym Therfore also be the christians called sayntes because they be anoynted wyth that oyntemente and wythdrawen froÌ„ the seruitude of the deuyll coÌ„secrate by Iesus Christe for to serue the onelye God Natha I vnderstande nowe wherfore Iesus Christe dyd sende a greate
thou lyue and dye in hyr when thou knowest not where she is Phy. Although I can not perceiue nor know al that be coÌ„prised in it yet neuertheles I haue certayne sygnes by the whyche I know am assured what she is Nathanaell What be those sygnes Phy. In all places coÌ„panies Syngnes to knowe the church by â— where as the worde of God is purelye opened receyued the sacrameÌ„tes of Iesu Christ obserued and kept I am certaine that there is of the shepe of Iesus Christe of the elected or otherwyse hys voyce should not be opened nor yet receyued Natha Thou wylt then saye that the worde of god the sacrameÌ„tes of Iesu Christ be indubitable signes of the same but manie speak of Iesus Christe and make semblant to heare hys worde whych be hypocrites beleue not in hym as Iudas was and suche â—yke And coÌ„trariewyse there be many vnknoweÌ„ which be estemed vnhappy damned yet haue faith shall atteyne to the kyngdome of heauen be fore them that shewe greate apparant as Iesus Christe dyd saye the harlottes publicaÌ„s Math. xxii shoulde obteigne it before the scribes phariseis Phy. Therefore haue I sayed that thys churche is inuisible vnknowen vnto me not bicause we se not with the bodily eyes the meÌ„ whyche be of it but because that man can not se the hertes nor can not deserue nor knowe whether the man that he seeth beleueth or no Ephe. ii how holie soeuer he seme nor none caÌ„ know it but the onlie God which gyueth the fayth knoweth the herte that receyueth it Nathan Thou art then ofteÌ„ begiled thinking that the church is wher the gospel is preached the in stitutioÌ„ of Iesus obserued seing that they that be ther do such thyngs may be such as Iudas Act. i. v. viii SimoÌ„ magus Ananias Saphira weâ— Phylip. Albeit that suche hypocrites maye be mingled in greate numbre amonge the faithful which be alwayes the lytle flocke yet neuertheles it is certayne that amonge them be some of Christes shepe for els God woulde not permit nor suffer that the preciouse pearles and margarites of hys holye Gospell shoulde be caste before dogges swine only Natha What if the wolues swine and dogs call theim selues shepe and in stede of the gospell sette forthe theyr owne dreames and humayne traditious howe causte thou knowe deserue the churche â— Cor. xii Phy. The Lorde hathe lefte vs hys holye scriptures for to iudge and deserue by the analogie of the fayeth and the rule of charitie whether the spirites be of God or not whether the spirit in the which I beleue do raigne the whyche is gyuen vnto the elected for to iudge all thynges for the spirituall man iudgeth all thynges and is iudged of no man Thâ— roman churche Natha And is not the romayne churche that holie catholyke church which thou beleueste and must be folowed Phy. If the romayne churche do abyde and perseuer in the apostolyke doctrine I wyl reknowledge hyr a churche of Iesus Christ inasmuche as she declareth hir selfe to be the spouse of Iesus Christe in obeying vnto him as vnto hyr heade and for to lyue vndre hys lawes and ordinaunces but yet maye I not take it for thys vniuersal church of the which we haue spoken for she can be but a meÌ„bre of that churche no more then other congregations and other christian churches that be abrode in the uniuersall world seperated both in places and bodies and yet ioyned in spirite and soule makynge all togyther one vniuersall churche Nathan But is not the Romayne church the heade of all the other vnto the whyche all the other oughte to obeye as subiectes Phy. If she be head she is no more theÌ„ nother spouse nor membre of hys body suche as the faythfull ought to be if she wyll haue dominion gyue lawes vnto other she is no more a churche of Iesus but is the churche of Antechriste whyche attributeth vnto hyr self the office appertayninge vnto Christe for the office of the churche is not to gyue lawes vnto hyr but receiue them of hym and to make hyr selfe subiecte vndre the same Natha The churche then whych wyll exarcise power ouer the other gyue theim other lawes then the Gospell of Iesu is no churche of Christe bycause hys spirite reygneth not ther but to what purpose serueth it to beleue the vniuersal churche Phy. Without that article al the reste goyng before shoulde serue me for nothyng For all that we haue sayed of God that we beleue of the father of the sonne and of the holye Goste hath regarde vnto thys churche without the whyche all oure faith should be vaine for in this crede we do not considre what god is in hym selfe but what he is towardes vs whyche be hys churche and by what meanes he hath willed hyr to be deliuered conserued ruled gouerned wherefore al that we haue treated here before pretendeth to thys end for we muste nedes haue layed thys fundatioÌ„ to buylde after thereupon thys edifice wythout the whythe the fundation shoulde profitte vs in nothynge if we were not surelye builded there vpon Nathana I vnderstande well that thou haste sayed of the vniuersall churche but I desyre yet much to knowe what thou vnderstandest by the communion of sayntes Phy. I vnderstande here no other thyng but that whyche I haue alreadye sayed that is to saye the holye vniuersall churche but this we put to the better to declare the vnite that is amoÌ„ge the faithful for as in one towne in one coÌ„mon wealth in one coÌ„munaltie coÌ„munioÌ„ amoÌ„ge the inhabitauÌ„ces citizens membres that be within it so likewise in the churche of Iesu christ ther is one vnite aliauÌ„ce burgelie brotherhede whyche after such sort conioyneth the bodie with hys head Iesus Christe all the membres the one wyth the other that they haue no goods that is not coÌ„mune amoÌ„g theÌ„ nor that the one doth not coÌ„municate vnto the other for Iesu Christ coÌ„municateth al his goodes to his membres al the goodes that he doth coÌ„municate to his churche returneth or coÌ„meth to euerie one of his meÌ„bres in perticuler euerye one receyueth his parte as the meÌ„bres the which the head doth coÌ„municate vnto them as the soule whyche is shed thorowe all the bodye giueth life vnto all the meÌ„bres of the same Nath. It is then no small benifite to be in the churche of Iesus Christe-nor no smal euil to be out of that churche Phy. It is with theÌ„ that be without as wyth the braunche that is cut of the vine or as the bowgh or twigge cut of the tre the which froÌ„ theÌ„se forth can haue nother nourishmente nor life but must neades drie away is good for nothing but to be cast in the fyre Na. They which be excommunicate be they out of thys coÌ„munioÌ„ Phylip. The word of
be spiritual be commune vntâ—â—â—l but there is an othere coÌ„munion betwen◠〈◊〉 Sayntes that yet be lyuynge them whiche be departed for eyther of theim haue theyr estates aparte And therefore is there no suche CoÌ„munioÌ„ betwene saintes lyueinge and them that bee dead communion betwen the Sayntes that be departed and vs as there hathe bene betwene them in the time that they lyued and theÌ„ that lyued wyth them at the leaste we haue no testimonye of the holye scriptures for they serue not nowe vnto the church wyth the giftes and graces whyche they in theyr tyme receyued of God for the edification of the same for they haue fulfilled and ended theyr course and theyr ministration whyche nowe is committed vnto others and of the other part thei haue no more nead of vs nor of oure goodes for they be out of al necessitie Nath. Oughte we not then to honour them Phy. We may not honoure them as though they were present wyth vs nor do vnto them reuerence nor salute them nor speake to them nor presente vnto them of oure goodes nor anye maner of seruice for othere honourâ— nor seruice can we not do vnto them but in folowynge theyr holye doctrine and holye lyfe and conuersation as they haue folowed Iesus Christe for those be the reliquies that they haue lefte vs in the whych they would be honored by vs and so then when wee haue the â—â—lye scriptures in reuerence the whych god hathe geuen vnto vs by them then do we honoure theyr reliquies Nathana It is then greate folye to offre vnto Offerynge to sayntes them breade wyne candels golde and siluer and other thynges lyke seynge they haue no maner of nede Phylyp That is a furye or follye more then paâ—â—imrie it weare muche better for to offre vnto the lyuynge Images and Sayntes for to accomplishe that whyche the Apostle exhorteth vs to admonishynge vs to communicate vnto the necessitie of the sayntes it is verye cleare that he speaketh not there of the Sayntes departed but of the lyuynge and of the pore membres of Iesus Christe beinge among vs languisshyng and ouer preste with pouertie and necessitie Nathana I doubte not but those offerynges were more pleasynge vnto God Phi. Such were they of the primatiue church for the gatherynge spendynge and distributynge of the whiche the churche at that tyme haddâ— hyr deacons to serue at the tables and At. vi Rom. xvi vnto the necessitie of the pore we can no here fynde chapell churche or Image more meete for the practisynge of thys excommunicatioÌ„ and to offre vnto the Sayntes then in visitynge the hospitales pore wydowes orphaÌ„s fatherles sycke lame neadie and indigeÌ„t Vpon suche Sayntes ought the goodes of the churche to be employed and spente and vpon them that serueth hyr and haue nede Nathan That same were a goodlye thynge but tel me yet what seameth it the of brotherheades and monkerye for seynge there is but Deut. vi i Timo. ii Ephe. iiii one christian church one communion of laintes one God one mediatour of God man one spirite as we haue coÌ„fessed hytherto and that all is but one gospell one Baptisme one Ceane one fayeth and that all the christians ought to be in one selfe bodye one selfe herte and one selfe soule it seameth to me that ther oughte to be but one religioÌ„ and one brotherheade seyng that al the christians be brothers haue all receyued one selfe spirite of fayeth and christiaÌ„ religion Phy. There is no doubt but they which haue bene the authours of the monasticall lectes and that foloweth theim suche as they be at thys presente tyme and those brotherheades lykewyse taken of the folowynge of the panyms be Apostatase from the true church of Iesus Christe for as Sismatykes they do deuide breake and teare the communion of saintes for as there is but one God so can there be but one religion The whyche S. Iames doeth diffine in thys maner the religion that is pure and without spot towardes God the father is thys Viset the fatherles widowes in theyr neades and tribulations and be not spotted defiled wyth thys worlde he doeth not saye that the true religion is to shute thy selfe in a cloister or to dwell in the deserte to be disguised in diuers habites to eate and deuour the pore widowes fatherles vndre the colour of long praiynge for suche religion is to much pharisaicall but the christian religioÌ„ doth lye in fayeth whyche maketh vs studye vnto all puritie and innocentie to exercise our charitie towarde our neyghboure whych is the true marke of the true christians disciples of Iesus Christe the Abbot of that religion is God the father and the gardian is Iesus Christe and the religious brethrene be al true christians and faythfull for as the Apostle testifieth the spirite of God witnesseth vnto oure spirite that we be the chyldrene of God by the whyche we crie Abba that is to saye father then in as muche as Abba doeth signifie father and that wee take God so to be and call hym father there is theÌ„ no doubt but he is the Abbot and founder of oure religion Act. ii Ephe. ii the whyche he doeth conserue maynteyne and gouerne by Iesu Christ hys sonne whom he hath giuen to be head of the church Ihon. vi x. and into whose handes he hathe putte vs all to be vinified sanctified vnite and conioyned wyth hym by hys holy spirite and the habite that we muste put on in thys religion is oure Lorde Iesus Christ the newe manne whiche we muste put on and of the olde Adam for Ephe. iiii we muste chaunge the skynne and the herte and not the ayer and the coote or clothes Nathana In asmuche then as God is the father of vs all and that wee make inuocation vnto hym by that name it doeth folowe also that we be all bretherne and so wyll Iesus Christe that we call oure selues and then if we be all brethrene wee be then one brotherhead I can not then vnderstande that here is anye other brotherhead but that of the holye Gooste by the whyche the churche is assembled and all the sayntes vnite and conioyned in one communion Phy. Thou concludeste verye well therefore Brotherhed Math. xiii confesse we fyrst in this crede the faith which we haue in the father whyche saueth vs by Iesus Christe hys sonne and doeth sanctifie vs by hys holye spirite whych be of one selfe essence and diuinitie wyth the father in the whyche we beleue and put al oure truste we laye fyrst the fundation and the cause and after we come vnto the churche whiche vpoÌ„ the lâ—me is founded builded Howe can we theÌ„ saye that we be of the brotherhead of Saynt Bernarde and of Saynte Sebastian and of The brotherhed of saynts suche othere lyke or of Saynte Barbara or saynt Katheryn or of oure Ladye or of anye other of the holye Sayntes what soeuer they be
for we can nother call theÌ„ fathers nor monor we be not bâ—etherne by the reason of theÌ„ nor vnite and conioyned by theyr spirites but if they haue bene true and fayethfull they be oure bretherne and haue beene lede wyth oneselfe spirite And lykewyse maye we also saye of all the monasticall sectes and diuersitie of religions For if Saynt Paule haue called the Corinthyans Sâ—smatikes whyche sayed I am of Paule and I of Cephas and I of Appollo what title or name shall I gyue them whyche saye I am of the religion of Saynte Fraunces and I of Saynte Dominike and I of S Benet other suche like which be in greater numbre amonge the christians then euer they were amonge the panims maye we not well saye vnto them wyth the Apostle is Christe deuided hathe Frauncys or Dominike dyed for you or are ye baptised in theyr names In as muche then as wee are baptised in the name of the father of the sonne and of the holye Goste what haue we neede of anye other religion but of that in the whyche thys holye spirite doth raygne which doeth learne vs to make innocatioÌ„ vnto the fathers in the name of Iesus Christ hys sonne whych hath taken vs all into theyr sauegarde and protection what haue we nede of anye othere rule but of that the whyche Iesus Christe hathe The Rule of the Religion of Châ—ist Gal. vi broughte vs from heauen Of the whych the Apostle doeth speake in thys maner all they whyche walke after thys rule peace and mercye be vpon them and vpon Israel of God Natha I haue learned manye goodlye poyntes by the occasion of thys coÌ„munion of saintes for thou haste not onelye taught me what it is but also what is the true excommunication religion and christian brotherheade and what is the honour dene vnto Sayntes therfore nowe expounde vnto me the reste Phy. Because we haue abyden solonge vpon these two articles of the church the communion of Sayntes wee maye here deuide oure matter and kepe the reste tyll an other tyme the which shal be shortly done Natha At thyne own pleasure be it ⧠In this laste dialogue shall be spokeÌ„ of the remissioÌ„ of synnes of the keyes of the kyngedome of heauen of the resurrection and immortall lyfe Nathanaell VVe haue done so muche by our Iorneis that we be al moste come to the ende of the crede seyng therfore we be arriued thus farre fourth our hertes must not faile vs for the litle waye we haue to go Phy. I haue better courage then euer I had tell me therefore what foloweth Natha The remission of synnes what is the vnderstandynge of thys article Phy. I coÌ„fesse by these wordes that I beleue that as there is one churche assemble and vnite by the holye spirite in the same oâ—e coÌ„munion of all goodes that the synnes lykewyse and the faultes be pardoned vnto the fayethfull by the grace goodnes and mercye of God whyche doeth quitte theim all theyr dettes to the ende they should not be rekened vnto theim at hys Iudgemente nor that they should not beare the payne whych they haue merited and deserued Humayn Satisfacion merets Nathan Seynge there is remission and forgiuenes it doth appeare folowe that ther is nothynge of our satisfaction for wher ther is pardone there can be nothyng of our merites Phylype There is nothynge more certayne for the dete is not forgiuen to hym that satisfieth and payeth wherfore it doeth folowe in as muche as there is remission and forgyuenes for vs that the satisfactioÌ„ is of sum other then of oure selues and that we can presâ—t no other recoÌ„pence vnto god but the satisfaction of his sonne Iesus Christe for whose loue we obteine of the father pardon of al our sinnes Natha And this pardon and remission caÌ„ we not obteygne but in the churche Phy. No for as at the time of the floude none coulde be saued whyche were wythout the shipe or arke of Noe so none can auoyde the Gen. viii Pâ—â—â—r iii. No sâ—luacion ouâ— of the church iudgement of God and obteygne grace and pardon of hys misdedes excepte he be a true membre of the church incorporated in the bodye of Iesus Christe persenerynge wyth the people of God in the vnitie of the fayeth Natha It foloweth then that all cismatykes heritikes infidels excommunicate and al authors of sectes whych be deuided and seperated frome the churche can haue no pardon of theyr synnes but abyde in death and damnation vnto suche tyme they be recouciled wyth hyr Phy. It is euen so Nathana Tell me then by what meanes we obteyne pardon in the churche Is it necessarie to confesse oure synnes vnto the priestes and to haue theyr absolution for to obteyne this remission Phy. It is verye requisite that if we will that God pardon vs that we reknoweledge oure faultes but not to the priestes for it is not agaynste theÌ„ that we haue synned but againste God whyche onelye as mooste soueraygne kynge maye gyue vs grâ—ce and pardon and thâ—refore as we haue synned agaynste hym euen so muste we conteste vnto hym our synnes and aske of him pardon accordyng to the example of Dauid of Daniell and of othere holye prophetes seruauntes of God For as Saynce Iohn sayeth if we confesse oure sinnes he is faithfull and wyll heare vs. Natha I vnderstande well we must confesse oure selues vnto God fyrste but is it not re-requisite that we confesse our selues vnto meÌ„ Phy. We maie confesse vs vnto menne in diuers sortes as fyrst If we haue offeÌ„ded anye we oughte to reknoweledge oure faultes towardes hym and aske hym pardon and enforce oure selues to returne into fauour wyth hym for we can not obteygne pardon of god so long as the iniury we haue done vnto one neyghboure doeth accuse vs before hym askynge vengeaunce agaynste vs excepte wee studie to reconcile our selues vnâ—o him whoÌ„ we haue offended and thys confession maye be called brotherlye recoÌ„siliation the whyche Iesus Christe doth greatlie recommend vnto vs. Ther is yet another maner of recoÌ„siliatioÌ„ towardes men the whych may be boeth publyke and particuler for when we haue beene Open coÌ„fesâ—â—on in errour and abused in Idolatrie and superstition and haue offeÌ„ded God we ought not to be ashamed to reknoweledge our faultes opeÌ„lie and to gyue thankes vnto God as did i timo i. Math. i. Act. ii iii. saint Paul writinge vnto Timothe and they whyche dyd come vnto the baptisme of Iohn Baptiste and they whych were conuerted by the pâ—eachynge of Saynte Petre and also of the Ephesians whyche dyd burne the bokes of sorcerie euen so theÌ„ as I may reknowledg and confesse my faultes openlye in thys maner â—efore the church of God euen so may I do in perticuler or secret vnto my neyghbour for to haue councell and consolation of him or for to reconcile my selfe vnto him if I haue Perticuler coÌ„fession offended hym or to the ende he praye
to God for me vnto suche confession doeth Saynte Iames exhorte vs sayinge Confesse your selues one to an other and praye eche one for other he doth not say confesse the vnto the priestes for as we oughte to praye the one for the other not the priestes onelye euen so ought we to reknowledge oure faultes one to an other coÌ„fesse our infirmities for to giue praises vnto God for the entertayning of amitie amoÌ„ge vs euerie one to seke the quietnes of other but I haue not founde in all the holye scripture that God hath coÌ„mâ—unded vs to go to tell all our synnes in the eate of a priest for that is impossible God doeth not so muche desire the reliting of our sinnes by perticuler Math. xvi as the coÌ„trition sighes sorowes of the herte the teares as we haue exemple in S. Petre which did much better coÌ„fesse his sinnes with his hert his eyes theÌ„ with mouth Natha I find that that thou saiest is very good but I woulde yet fayne knowe howe thys remissioÌ„ is practised in the church and howe we be partakers of it is it not by the bulles indulgence and pardons gyuen by the Pope Phy. It is by pardon and indulgence but not of paper and perchemente sealed wyth waxe or lead as those whych the Pope gyueth but by the indulgence and bulles that the celestiall father hath sente vs frome heauen by hys sonne Iesus Christe wryten in oure hertes wyth hys owne propre finger and by hys holy spirite sealed with his precious bloud ratified and confirmed by his death passion Natha The bulles and pardons of the pope be then nothynge worth Phy. Yes they profit them that gyueth them as towchyng theyr bodies bycause they take money for them but they brynge greate domage and hurte vnto theyr soules also vnto the bodyes and soules and goodes of theim that receyue them for in as much as they seke remission of synnes by anie other meane then by the bloude of our Lorde Iesus Christ they do not beleue the remissioÌ„ of sinnes the which they confesse the whych is in the church of Iesu christ wherfore they abide alwaies in their sinne daÌ„natioÌ„ subiectes to the cuâ—sse maledictioÌ„ that S. Petre dyd gyue vnto Simon Magus his monei Nata Thou wilte then saye ther â—â— no other true pope that maie giue vs indulgence and pardon for to deface and take awaye ours sinnes but Iesu Christ but by what meanes doth he make vs partakers of hys pardons and indulgences Phylype By the ministeri of the keyes of the kingdome of heauen that is to say by the predication preaching oâ— hys worde whiche is the true keye of knowledge Nathanaell And who then hath these keyes â—uc xi Math. xxiii Math. xvi Phy. The church to whom Christe hathe gyuen them and be put in vre and practise by al true euangelicall Apostles pastours ministers priestes Nata Haue they theÌ„ authoritie and power to pardon synnes to absolue men Phy. Not of them selues but by the ministration of the keyes and preachynge of the gospell Natha Speake thys more clearlye Phy. There is but the onelye God that may pardon and forgyue synnes and that maye gyue grace but wheÌ„ by his ministers he doth offre vnto vs Iesu Christe hys sonne by his worde and in hym remission of oure sinnes he that beleueth is saued vnbounde and deliuered frome his synnes and he that beleueth not abydeth bound and damned as the minister openeth vnto hym by the worde Natha Then the ministers be but seruauntes ambassadours haue no authoritie nor power â–ª but so much as theâ— take of the word in that they do faithfullie set forth theyr message and ambassade Phy. No for none can pardon the synnes but God when man doth open the word of god it is not maÌ„ that speaketh but it is the spirite of God that speaketh in hym by the whyche the bearer is bounde or losed accordyng to hys fayeth or vnbeleue Therfore dyd Iesus Christ blow toward his disciples gaue them the holie gost before he sayed vnto them whose synnes soeuer ye forgiue shal be forgiueÌ„ whose synnes soeuer ye retayne shal be retayned he woulde by that shewe that it was the holye Goste that dyd pardon them and not they whyche he dyd vse as hys instrumentes and messengers Natha I vnderstaÌ„d wel it is as an ambassadoure whyche if he fayethfullye execute hys Math. x. Ihon. x. chaâ—ge the prince confirmeth it that he doeth if he do otheâ—wyse he wyll not coÌ„firme it but punish hym greuouslye Phylype It is as a man that will open a gate it he haue no keye or if the keye that he hath be not mete for the locke he caÌ„ not opeÌ„ it and therfore in asmuche as Iesus Christâ— is the dore and the waye by the whyche onelye wee maye go vnto the father Rom. x. Luc. xi and wee can not goe vnto Iesus Christe but by fayeth whyche openeth vnto vs the dore and all the treasures that be in him and fayeth cometh by hearynge of the worde of God whych is the key of knowledge it doth wel folowe that al the power of the Apostles of theyr successours is there limited that he that hath not this key is no minister of christ Natha I may theÌ„ well vnderstande by thys that the power of the pope of byshopes and priestes doeth extende so farre as they folowe the worde of God and God doeth approue and confirme that whych they do by it that whyche they do wythout it or agaynste it he doeth condemne all Phy. If thou wylt se the practise of thys considre howe S. Peter dyd vse at Hierusalem he dyd open Iesus Christ penaunce and remission of sinnes in his name Practies of the keys Act. ii iii. vnto the Iewes they whyche the worde dyd touche at the herte and beleued in it were losed by hys ministerie accordynge to the promise of Iesu christ saing that he that beleueth Mark xvi is baptised shall be saued coÌ„trarye wise he that beleueth not shal be coÌ„demned it foloweth theÌ„ that al the infidels abide bound as by the open preachyng all the hearers be bound or vnbounde accordynge to theyr fayeth or vnbeleue euen so be wee by all the perticuler admonicions of the Gospell opened shewed forthe vnto vs by the seruauntes of God visitynge correckynge admonishynge or coÌ„solatyng of vs other in health or sikcenes Nathanaell Thys poynte is inoughe opened Resureccion of the fleshe declared let vs come nowe vnto that whych foloweth of the resurrectioÌ„ of the flesh and the lyfe eternall whych shal be for the end coÌ„clusioÌ„ wherfore be these two last articles put in Phy. For manye causes for wythout them al the religion were nothynge for if we beleue not the resurrection of the flesh that oure bodyes shoulde ryse agayne after thys i Cor. xv mortall lyfe we
shall not be euyl employed and to the whyche I haue greate desyre Phy. Thou shalte not be deceyued of thy hope In thys dialoge shal be shewed the maner howe we muste haue in contemplation the historie of Iesus Christe and howe manye wayes wee maye vse it to oure profit Phylype THe great desyre that I haue sene the haue in these dayes paste Nathanael In the declaration of the articles of oure fayeth and religion hath giuen me greate courage to declare them vnto the. Nathana There is no double but as the good maister doeth make a good disciple soo a good disciple causeth the maister to be better and the more diligente for it is vnto hym as vnto a good husbande man whyche wyllynglye ploweth the ground whyche he knoweth to be good and fertyle and wyl wel answer him his laboure to the end thy labour maye be alwayes more profitable towardes me begin to shewe vnto me the vtilitie profitie that may come vnto me of these thinges I haue learned of the. Phy. We haue two poyntes the whyche we muste principally considre in the death and resurrection The maner to hauein cōtēplacion the historye of Iesus Christ of oure Lorde Iesus Christe the fyrst is that cometh vnto vs bi the satisfactiō redemptiō and saluation that we receyue and the other or the secōd is the exemple we ought to take for to conforme our selues vnto Iesus Christe oure heade and so to learne patience of hym wherein to nourishe oure fayeth hope and loue Natha Expounde thys vnto me more larglye for I vnderstande not well what thou woldeste saye Phylype For to make the thynge more easye vnto the I shal sette it forthe by examples by the whiche I shal shew the the practise of that whyche I vnderstande herein Fyrste when I do considre that Iesus Christe hathe suffered Math. xxvi Luke xxii howe he hathe prayed vnto God hys father in the garden and hathe swette bloude howe he was taken bound mocked and lede Mar. xv Iuhn xviii vnto Annas Cayphas Herode and Pilace howe he was Iudged condempned nayled and hanged vpō the crosse how he was scratched buffeted whypped beaten owtraged blasphemed howe there was gyuen hym to drynk vineger gal myrre how that he was Psal xxii forsaken of all creatures abimed vnto the helles howe he dyd crye my God my God whye haste thou forsaken me howe he was deade gaue vp the spirite and shede all hys bloude nayled and hanged vpon the crosse betwene theues and euyle doers When I do diligentelye considre al these thinges I do learne by the same to knowe howe Knowlege of the Iugment of God of sinne by the death of Iesu muche the Iudgemente of God is horrible fearefull and importable and howe muche that displeaseth hym and in what errour and abhourmation wee ought to haue it For whē I do see the propre sonne of God in suche anguishe and distresse and do see that welbeloued sonne sweate bloude of the onelye feare and reprehension whyche he had of the death prepared for hym and of the Ire furour and malediction of God whyche he shoulde suffre and beare not for hys owne synnes from the whyche he was pure and cleane but for mine haue I not thē good occasiō to be troublede and in feare maye I not saye well that whyche Iesus Christe sayed vnto the poore women that folowed hym weepynge when he was ledde to be putte to execution and crucified vpon the mounte of Caluerie If this Luke xxiii be doone vnto the grene tree what shall be donne vnto the drye If the good tree be after thys soorte reiected and caste awaye what shall be come of the euel if God haue not spared hys owne propre sonne beynge Iuste ryghtuouse and innocente bycause of the sinnes of other the whych he would beare how shall he pardone me whych am couered with mine own propre synnes frō the toppe of my heade vnto the soole of my foote maye I not well esteme what ought to be the payne and torment of the damned the whych God hath whollye forsaken cursed and reiected wythout leauynge vnto them anye maner of hope of saluation when I do cal to remembraunce Iesus Christ forsaken of God caste into such feare and deepnes of all euells and cursinges but for that lytle tyme that the father and his diuinitie hadde wythdrawen theyr fauoure ayde and assistence from hym as thoughe he hadde all togyther bene lefte and forsaken as they whyche be in the eternall Ire of God Nathanaell Thou putteste me in feare and horror to here the speake for certaynlye thys consideration oughte to make vs to deteste haue sinne in a merueylouse abhomination more to hate it then the pestilence or anye other vnhappynes that can be in the world seynge it doeth make men so detestable before God castinge them downe into such depnes of malediction and hathe bene the cause that the propre sonne of God hath suffred a death so cruell terrible and fearefull Phylype The remembraunce and cōtemplacion of thys oughte well to gyue vs occasion to humble oure selues for it doeth gyue vs knoweledge of the greatenes of oure synnes seynge they be such that none coulde remedy nor satisfye for them but the propre sonne of God it doeth ministre also vnto vs occasion to accuse and condempne oure selues and not rigoriouslye to accuse Iudas the whyche betraied him and the Iewes whyche persecuted Who hath betrayed crucified Iesus Hebre. vi and crucified hym for it is we which haue betrayed cratched buffeted and deliuered hym vnto deathe and doo daylye crucifie hym by our sinnes wythout the whych he had neuer suffered nor they shoulde haue hadde no such power ouer hym We haue then good occasion to be displeased wyth oure selues and to flee from synne and so to keepe vs euer from crucifiynge of hym Natha Thou sayest true but we thynke lytle thereon and doo but smallye esteme the tormentes that he hathe suffered for vs and the precious bloude whyche he shede the price wherewyth we be bought Phylyp And yet neuertheles is that the waye and maner howe we ought to saye and vnderstand our Crede and yet is there more for as the knowledge of my sinnes and Iudgmente Gene. iiii Math. xxviii of God is inoughe to caste me downe into dispayre as Cayn and Iudas and to ouerthrow cast me downe lower then the helles Act. i. Euen so of the contrarye parte when I am assured by the worde of God that Iesus Christe hathe indured and suffered all thys for me to the ende that I shoulde be deliuered and shoulde not be subiecte vnto that same terrible Iudgemente of God I do receyue a greate consolation and do feele a merueylouse Ioye and ease in my herte the whyche doeth incite moue and steare me vp more thē can be beleued to gyue thākes vnto that same oure most good and celestial father the which hath so muche
loued me that he hath not spared hys owne propre sonne but hathe gyuen Iohn iii. Rom. viii hym for me and vnto that same good Sauioure likewise whych hadde so feruent a loue and charitie towardes me that he woulde not refuse the death nor to gyue hys lyfe for me poore misirable synner albeit that I was his enemye as towchynge my parte and vnworthy to behold the sunne and go vpoÌ„ the earth Na. Without doubte this coÌ„sideratioÌ„ oughte well to enflame vs in the loue of that good god of the same our sauiour Iesus Christ Phylyp For this cause hath he instituted his The institutioÌ„ of â—he supper Math. xxvi i. Cor. x. xi holye ceane or supper to the ende that the remembraunce of thys greate benifite shoulde ofâ—en be hadde and refreshede amonge vs thereby the better imprinted in oure hertes and to make vs the better to feele the vertue and efficatie to growe in fayeth charitie and all good worckes and so to holde and keepe vs in the office of true christians for by these visible sygnes of the whyche the signification is declared vs by his word by his holye spirite of the which sacrameÌ„tes do take theyâ— efficatye the liuelye Image of hys death and passion is cepresented vnto vs. And therefore The memory of Christe to be celebrate in the supper when thys breade dedicated vnto the Sacramente representeth vnto me the bodye of Iesus deliuered vnto death for me and the wâ—â—â— the bloude whyche hath bene shede to washe my sinnes I do codsiâ—re howe Iesus Christe hath bene bounde ledde vnto Pilate Iudged condempned and deliuered into the haudes of the hangemen crucified dead and buried and after rysen from the deade and ascended into heaueÌ„ this may â— not onlie coÌ„sidre as a cloude or as a simple historie or as the legeÌ„de lyfe or death of some martire or some holye sainte but I muste coÌ„sidre that Iesus beynge bound for me as a stroÌ„g SaÌ„soÌ„ hath brokeÌ„ the boÌ„des of death daÌ„pnatioÌ„ hathe vnbounde me with him selfe WheÌ„ I coÌ„sidre him before the iudg here the seÌ„teÌ„ce giueÌ„ against him I do theÌ„ here mine own absolutioÌ„ deliueranc for he was led before the Iudg I of him coÌ„demned again deliuered into the haÌ„ds of the executioners to the end that I should not be codemned at the IudgmeÌ„t of God deliâ—â—red into the handes of he deuylles and sente into euerlasting fyre but that I mighte pleade for me hys ryghtuousnes so to winne my cause fynde fauoure before the great eternal Iudg and that I may saye with the apostle Whoe Rom. viii shal lay accusation agaynst the electe of god for God is he that Iustifieth and Iesu christe is oure leader aduocate and intercessour goo we then vnto the throne of grace and we shal Timo. ii i. Iohn ii Hebr. ii iiii fynde fauoure and saluation in tyme conueniente Natha I do find thys maner of remeÌ„braunce of the death and passion of oure Lorde Iesus Christe muche better and more consolation in it then in that whyche the monkes do teache vs in preachynge the passion on good friday for they preache it vs after suche sorte that we Monkish meditaâ—ioâ— of the passion of Christe learne nothynge but to despise and be angrie wyth Iudas and the Iewes and do not considre that it is we oure selues whych be the Iudas and the Iewes whyche by ours synnes haue so outragiouslye intreated hym against whom we ought not to be angrie And further they shew vnto vs Images and crucifixes for to learn vs to wepe as the pore women did weepe whiche folowed him wheÌ„ Luke xxiii he was ledde to be crucified after suche sorte as we weepe for an euyll doer or some other good man which were innoceÌ„tly put to death where as we ought rather to wepe ouer and for oure selues and for oure owne chyldrene and so to lamente langoure and sighe for our owne fautes and synnes so farre as I can conceyue or vnderstande by thy wordes there is a greate difference betwen the death of Iesus Christ and that of the martyrs for that of the martyrs can not serue vs for any satisfaction and redemption for oure synnes as that Difference betwene the suffering of martyrs Christ of Iesus Christe but onely for an example of fayth strengthe and conscience but that of Iesus Christe doeth serue vs for boeth Phy. It is verye well vnderstande of the and thou couldest haue saied no better I would to God that euerye one dyd vnderstande it so well as thou and then the Sophisters should not haue Ioyned the death and sufferynge of the martyres wyth that of Iesus Christe for to make it meritorious vnto saluation and remission of synnes for vs as though that of Iesus Christe were not sufficitiente and but lytle dyfference froÌ„ that of the martires They woulde not also haue corrupted the sence of the wordes of Saynt Paul for to recompeÌ„ce by the tribulation and sufferynge of sayntes Colo. i. that whyche seameth vnto them to wante in that of Iesus Christe nor woulde not haue forged the workes of superogatioÌ„ and of superaboundaunce and theyr treasure of the church into the whyche they gather togyther all the merites of sayntes and make them selues distributers of them by theyr kepes and by the applyinge of theyr ceremonies sacrificies bulles pardons as thoughe there were other meritte then that of Iesus Christe and other maner to appli it then by the preaching of hys Gospel and administration of hys sacramentes to receiue and communicate theÌ„ by the true lyuelye fayeth the whiche onlye is receyuable of theÌ„ And further if al did vnderstand this matter well not onely the monkes shoulde learne otherwyse to preache the passion but the priestes also should be content to represent them vnto vs by the preachynge of his worde and the true vsage of hys sacramentes The true representatioÌ„ of the passion they woulde holde them selues vnto the ordinaunce of hys holy Ceane woulde vnloode them selues of so manye folish vayn and chyldishe ceremonies whyche they haue in theyr masse by the whyche they wyl represente them vnto vs as one should plai a Iuglyng caste or as it were a playe of litle chyldrene They take a kerchiefe in stead of a crown of throns they haue theyr maniple theyr stole a gyrdle of a corde in steade of the cordes bondes and crosse whyche Iesus Christ dyd beare they haue theyr albe and greate shurte in stead of hys gown that Herode gaue him And to be short it doeth seme perfectelye that they wylbe disguised for to playe or daunce a bet-morres or to make litle childreÌ„ ferd were it not much better to be coÌ„teÌ„t wyth the simple ordinaunce of Iesu Christ to hold theÌ„ vnto that holye ceane that he hath instituted as Saynt Paule hathe sette it forthe vnto the Corinthians and as the Apostles and the primatyue
churche did and to remembre and haue in cōtēplation the death and passiō of Iesus christ in oure hertes and to reste oure selues in the fruite consolation that it bryngeth vnto vs then to playe suche castes and to disguyse thē selues in suche sorte before the simple people and to seeke to draw them onely into the admiration and extollynge of outwarde ceremonies and so to drawe them altogyther frō the true and healthfull contemplation of the death and passion of Iesus Christe and to depryue theym of the fruite the whyche they oughte to receyue by the same For when I do remembre Iesus Christ vpon the crosse I doo see hym wyth the eyes of my fayeth gyue vp the spirite I do see hym putte into the Sepulchre rysen and ascended into heauen What neede haue I then of suche illusions and paynted conueyaunce for to drawe me from thys holy and profounde consideration for my fayeth doeth make Iesus Christe present vnto me euē as though he were payned and crucified euē before my owne eyes I doeth sette hym forthe before me as a stronge Samson whyche breaketh the gattes of hys enemyes and beareth them vpon hys shoulders and doeth kyll and distroye more in diyng thē in lyuyng I do see howe Iesu Christ beyng crucified doeth crucifie the Deuyl beynge nayled doeth nayle sheading hys bloud i. Cor. xv Math. xxvii Iohn xiiii Roma v taketh awaye the bonde of death whyche he had agaynst vs in dying kylleth death sinne and brouseth and treadeth down the head of the olde serpente he openeth the Sepulchres and gyueth lyfe vnto the dead when he entereth into the Sepulchre and descendeth into helles as we haue sayed he entereth into the house of death into the strengthe of the armed man and of the prynce of thys worlde doeth dispoyle breake downe all theyr force strēgth and power Nathanael If hys death be so stroung what oughte then to be hys resurrection and lyfe Phylype I leaue that to thy selfe to considre and therefore when I do see hym rysen I do Colo. ii The fruit of the resurrection ascentiō se my fleshe rysen wyth hys I do see hym as victoriouse leadynge synne the worlde death hell and Sathan in shewe and triumphe all ouercome and caste downe in suche sorte that they haue no more powre vpon all the elected whyche beleue in hym then they haue hadde vpon Iesus Christ Whē I see hym ascended into heauen and am certayne that he is sette vpon the ryghte hande of God and that he doth raygne wyth the father eternally This fayeth also doeth brynge assuraunce and certifieth me that when he is goone vp he hathe borne and lyfte vp my fleshe and my bodye hath opened me the waye vnto the celestial glorye and that he beynge oure heade hath taken possession for vs. Natha Then hys resurrection and hys assention be vnto vs certaine testimonies seales confirmation of ours Phy. There is nothynge more certayne and we oughte no lesse to be assured that we shall aryse and raygne wyth hym then that we be of hym for in asmuche as he hathe taken oure fleshe euen as it in hym hathe suffered hath borne the Iudgmente and maledicion of god and is deade euen so it is rysen in hym and exalted into the glory of God aboue al the heauenes therfore he is called the fyrst fruit of thē that slepe fyrst borne of the dead not bicause he is fyrst risē amōg mē for other were risen before hym that is to saye they whych were raysed as well by hym as by the prophetes but bycause that thys is the fyrst and he onelye whyche is rysen by hys owne deuine vertue and power and is the beginning originall and fountayne of the resurrection lyfe of all the other whyche dye and ryse in hym and by hym and the better to confyrme and seale thys hope in oure hertes he hath giuen vs a gage and hathe takē of vs to the end he woulde not leaue vs in doubte he hathe taken Iesus hath taken pledge of vs hath left vs of hys Ephe. i. Roma viii Iohn i. i. Petre. i oure fleshe the whyche he hath borne into heauen by the whyche we be alreadye put into possession and be sette in the celestial places wyth hym and of the other parte he hath gyuen vs hys holye spirite to confyrme and seale the promises in oure hertes which doeth testifie vnto oure spirite that wee be the chyldrē of God Seinge thē that we be the childrē of God and haue hys diuine seede in vs wee oughte not to doubte but that Iesus Christe hathe made vs partakers of his diuine nature euen as he woulde communicate vnto ours and woulde be made manne for to make vs Goddes that is to say Godly holy spirituall Then euen as the wheate whych is sowen in the earth dieth in the same doth sprout Iohn xii Cor. xv sprynge and take roote and after cometh out groweth and bringeth forth good fruite euen so lykewyse shall we be assured that when we dye be putte into the earth we be sowen shal take agayne aryse immortall incorruptible in as much as we beare wyth vs the sproute or springe of the spirite of God which can not dye though the flesh be corrupte but shall deliuer thys bodye frō corruptiō whych shal be raised vp by the vertue of him whych hathe raysed vp Iesus Christe from the dead and shall vinifie and rayse vp oure mortall membres Nathan Here is a goodlye exercise of fayeth and a goodlye practise of christian doctrine of the whyche we oughte not onelye to be learners and doctours in contemplation but also good practicians for to bryng it in dayly vre Phy. There is yet an other poynte whych is no lesse worthye to be noted that is when we beleue that Iesus rayneth in heauen sette vpon the ryght hand of God that doeth assure Consolation agaynst al tētations gyue vs a merueylouse consolation against all tentations and daungers for it is no smal thynge to haue in the celestiall courte and before the face of that greate eternall God such a frende as Iesus Christe whyche is verye God verye man whyche also hathe power in heauen and is inheritour of the kyngdome of God for we can not doubte in asmuche as he alwayes appeareth before the face of God but he is intercessoure for vs and is oure mediatoure and aduocate leader conductoure and gubernatoure wherefore wee haue none occasion to be aferde of anye thynge in heauē or in earth if we firmely and assuredlye trust in hym For in asmuche as he is verye God we can in no wyse doubte but that he hathe al power asmuche as he is one substāce power with the father we ought not to doubt but that al that the father hath is hys and for as muche as he hath bene obedient euen vnto the death of the crosse and that he is hys welbeloued
sonne we haue no cause to fear that the father should denye anye thyng that he asketh of hym nor Phil. ii Math. xxvii Iohn xiiii Ephe. v. Hebr. ii Colo. i. ii Ephe. i. that we shall aske and demaunde of hym in hys name of the othere parte in asmuche as Iesus Christe is verye man our spouse our brother of oure fleshe of oure bloude and of oure bones and that he is oure heade and we hys membres wee oughte not to doubte but that he loueth vs and hath pitie and compassion of vs and wyll not renye hys fleshe hys bloude sufferinge to perishe hys espouse and hys membres for thys cause hathe he put vpon hym oure fleshe and hath taken al our infirmities and hathe bene tempted in all thynges wythout synne to the ende we shoulde be certayne that we haue a bishope that is not Esai xiii Hebr. i. iiii v ignoraunte of oure infirmities not wythout hauynge anye compassion of them nor that he fealethe them lesse then wee nor that there cometh anye thynge vnto hys membres but it towcheth him which is the heade as it doth appeare well by the wordes whyche he spake vnto Saule persecutynge hym in hys membres and that as heade he is readie to deliuer vs from al euylles as he hath bene deliuered Natha If we beleue then firmelye thys article it seameth vnto me wee haue no neede to runne vnto the holye sayntes whyche are departed frome thys worlde nor to praye vnto them to be oure aduocates intercessours and InuocatioÌ„ of sayntes leaders vnto God Phy. It is verye certayne that suche inuocation of saintes doeth procede but of errour and infidelitie and for lacke of the knoweledge of Iesus Christe and we can not denye but they that seeke any other aduocate theÌ„ Iesus christ be verye farre from the fayeth whyche we coÌ„fesse in these two articles of the ascention of Iesus Christe and of hys celestiall raygne and that yet more is they do declare manifestlye that they do not vnderstand the misterie of the incarnatioÌ„ of the sonne of god for wherfore was it necessarie that the sonne of God should be made man but for to conioyne and knytte manne to God Then if we wyll well Deut. iiii conioyne two thynges togyther that differ bee of diuers natures it is requisite to haue a thyrde that shoulde approche holde of boeth natures for to conioyne and vnite them or other wyse there can be no verye perfecte and true communion and pryncipallye if the natures be contrary and repungnauntes one to an other then what agrement coulde there be betwen God and man The fyre coÌ„sumynge the thrones the lyght the darkenes Iustice Hebr. ii ii Cor â–ª xv iniustice blessynge and cursynge lyfe death heauen and hell there is no more betwen god man if we coÌ„sidre maÌ„ in his nature it was theÌ„ much more theÌ„ necessarie that we shoulde haue a mediator for to make thys agremeÌ„te coÌ„iunction which should be partaker of boeth the natures yet without sinne that he shuld be verie God verie maÌ„ for to coÌ„ioyne man vnto God and then is there none suche but Iesus Christe wherefore it doeth necessarily and infalbly folowe that none other myghte be oure mediatoure aduocace patrone but Iesus Christe onelye as the holy Apostle testifieth for when he sayed there is one God and one mediatoure of God and of men the 1. Timo. ii man Iesus Christe and the same hathe bene the price of oure raunsome these wordes be Deut. vi as muche as thoughe he shoulde haue sayed as there is but one God the whyche neuerthelesse is sufficiente to all creatures as one sunne to shine ouer all the worlde euen so is there but one mediatoure whyche is Iesus Christe whyche onely hath payed our raunsome beynge onelye suffitiente deputed and appoynted properly vnto that office S. Iohn doth saie no lesse wheÌ„ he doth write My childreÌ„ i. Iohn ii I do not sai this vnto the ende ye should sinne but if we haue sinned we haue an aduocate towarde the father eueÌ„ Iesus Christ beynge iuste which is the propitioÌ„ not onelie for our sinnes but also for al that be in the world therfore did S Iohn Baptist cal hym the Iohn i. Lambe of god that taketh awaye the sins of the worlde S. Paule calleth him our peace Ephe. ii Colo. i. which pacifieth all thinges as wel in heauen as in earth by the bloude of his crosse saynt Iohn doth not say wheÌ„ ye haue sinned come vnto me the welbeloued disciple which haue slepte in the bosome of Iesus christe in hys lappe I shal be your aduocate to the virgin Marie his mother the which by him was recoÌ„mended vnto me hath loued taken me as hir child he doth not saie also turne and adresse Iohn xvi your selues vnto the virgin Marie or vnto the Apostles mi fellowes or to the prophets patriarkes that be dead but doth put him selfe in the coÌ„panie role of sinners saieinge if we haue sinned we haue an aduocate towardes the father by the which wordes he doth giue vs manifestli to know that he doth confesse hym selfe to be a synner by nature hath nede as wel as other of our sauiour Iesu christe to be his aduocat toward the father celestiall without whoÌ„ he shoulde haue bene lost daÌ„pned he had not forgotteÌ„ that which he heard of his maister that which him self put in writing the which haâ—h not said what soeuer ye aske of my father in the name of mi mother or of the prophetes or diciples shal be giuen vnto you but hathe sayed that whiche ye shall aske demaunde of my father in my Math. xi Hebr. v. name For as he doeth saye in an other place None canne come vnto the father but by me and the Apostle doeth testifie not onelye that he hath prayed for vs wyth greate cryes teares Roma viii and wepynges and was herde but doeth also testifie that he is nowe vpon the ryghte hande of God wher he incessauntly maketh intercession for vs. Natha It is not possible that I can resiste or agayne saye that whyche thou haste sayed excepte I would go and withstand the cleare worde of God but they whych do mayntain the inuocation of saintes do confesse that they take Iesus Christ for theyr meane and aduocate but yet they wyll neuertheles haue the sayntes with hym Phylype That is euen as muche to saye as they holde hym not for sufficiente alone and do attribute vnto hym no more then vnto euerye of the other sayntes and so wyl wynne or gette theyr cause before God by the multitude and force of aduocates for other Iesus Christe is sufficiente or he is not and if he be sufficiente he hathe no neade of fellowes and if he be not suffitiente he is not Iesus Christ nor is not sette at the ryghte hande of God hys