when they haue the greatest victorie thā to iustice wher had the Dukes of Saxony and other your defendours bene From the beginning against the wills of so many Kinges Euery Anabaptist in Brabāt or Scotlād liueth against the Prīces wil because he generally wisheth euery heretike out of the way for feare of infecting the good Chistiās yet ther is another wil in Prīces which if they would folow no heretike could haue peeped vp in all Christēdom but he shuld haue ben quikly dispatched In spite of the Popes That is true in one sense because in deed very spite hath moued diuers mē to refuse his authority but in an other it is false For if he for exāple had stomaked the matter he had held them for excōmunicate which should haue the name of Kīg Hēry in their bokes like as on the cōtrary side it was high treason to haue the name of Papa in any writing or Calēder And almost maugre the head of al men hath taken encrease Here again commeth in almost No if men had resisted it in deede it had neuer ben receiued But partly through couetise of Church goods partly through werines of straight liuing partly through hatred of superiour powers and partly through curiosity to heare what newes came out of Germanie the merchandise of heretikes had an open vent And by litle litle spread ouer into al countries and is come at the length euē to princes Courtes and palaces Neuer say at length For euen from the begining therof it was in the Courts of Princes as of King Henrie the viij Duke of Saxony c. And by plaine force of law the greater part of our owne country is kepte yet stil in it The holy Fathers did alway fight against the heretikes with no other force Apolog. then with the holy Scriptures It is false Confut. 27. as it appeareth by the first Nicene Coūcel declaring the cōsubstantiality of God the Sōne with his Father The second Councell at Constantinople resorting to the writinges of theyr for fathers for profe of the Godhead of the holie Ghost The Councel at Ephesus defining our blessed Ladie to be Deiparam the Mother of God and not only Christiparam the mother of Christ And the Councel at Calchedon where the fathers cried out aloud against Eutyches denieing the two natures in Christe and asking in what Scriptures laie the two natures Ea quae sunt Patrum teneantur Those things which the Fathers haue thought let them be kepte If there had bene any whiche would be but a looker on and abstaine from the holy Cōmunion Apolog. him did the old fathers and Bishops of Rome in the Primatiue Church before priuate Masse came vp excommunicate as a wicked person and as a Pagane How proue ye this Con. 92. Marie out of a decree of Calixtus or as ye should say Anacletus Yet he speketh not of al the people but of the clergy onli ▪ which he apointeth to attend vpon the Bishop at the aultar which are to saie seuen fiue or three Deacons likewise Subdeacons and other ministers Neither are they excommunicated if they doe not receiue but willed to be kept without the Church dores a far lesse punishment so far furthe at the least that it proueth you a lyer Our aduersaries at this day haue violently thrust out and quite forbydden the holy Communion Apolog. They haue so forbidden it Conf. 9◠that seeing th◠slewth of the common people they haue made an expresse law that whosoeuer doth not communicate at Easter shal not be taken for a Christian. And bysides if it be to far for you to goe to Rome it selfe whereas the examples of the primitiue Churche continue in theyr best practise you maie aske of the Churches of Flāders and Brabāt and if there be not more receiuing at euerie principal feast in the yere thā is church for church in the whole yeare with you then let me be reproued And this ofte receauing of Catholike people can not stand wyth a violent thrustyng out and a forbidding the holy communion as you belie the Clergie Now if by the holy communion ye meane not the receiuing of the Sacrament as Catholykes vse but receiuinge vnder bothe kindes neither in that sence speake you truely For no violence was vsed whiles one kind only was ministred no commaundement driuing the Christians at the first vnto it but their owne willes and deuotions allowing it neither by anie later Canon of the Churche are both kindes so quite forbidden but that vpon good aduise and charitable consideration both may be graunted The Bishoppes of Rome doe carie the Sacramentall bread aboute Apolog. vppon an amblyng horse whither so euer them selues iourney What if he would ryde twelue miles or seuen miles out of Rome Confut. 111. doth he carie the Sacrament with him vppon an horse No forsothe Ergo not whether so euer he iourneieth Againe howe doth he carie it In lyke sorte as noble men carie theyr necessaries with them vpon Sūpter horses or packe vp in casketes trūkes or males anie of theyr singular and pretiouse iewelles Surelie the simple and plaine Reader maie thinke vpon the credite of your woordes that the Pope when he rydeth out of towne carieth the Sacrament inclosed vp with him and set vppon some horse as though it were perteyninge to his household prouision Yet the truthe is farre otherwyse for in solemne and greate processions onelie the Sacrament is cariede about But I truste a Procession is none of the Popes iourneys neither muste his holines be sayed to ryde out of towne whē he goeth about the Cytie in his Bishoppelie Ornamentes for praiers sake onelie and deuotion Now when such high feasts do come the mōstrāce or pix for the Sacramēt being verie greate and massy is sette in deede vpon an horse not as a cariage of the Popes but as conteining a Sacrament of the Christians Which that it might be the better in syght and with more ease caried about therefore hath it pleased the deuotion or inuention of no euil mē to prepare a fayre horse to carie vppon his backe the pix in which that bodie is kepte vnder the forme of bread whiche disdayned not to ride vpon an Asse Matt. 21 ▪ whē it came into Hieruselem in visible forme of fleash They say Apolog. and sometyme do perswade fooles that they are able by theyr Masses to distribute and apply to mens commoditie all the merites of Christe his death yea although many tymes the partyes thinke nothing of the mater and vnderstand ful litle what is done Name them that doe saie so Confut. 115. and you shal be discharged of a lie and they punished for their words For the Catholiks alow not these phrases we are able to distribute by our Masses c. As who should say the Priest were no more a sinfull mā nor an hygh minister at the most vnder God but were in dede a certaine God and
or house he preacheth vnto his flocke as he did thrise the last yere first in S. Peters Churche after that in our Ladie Churche which is called Maria Maior thyrdly in S. Iohn Laterane he ministreth the Sacramentes he confirmeth Bishopes he bindeth he looseth he chargeth he dispenseth and by vertue of his Authoritie and Priestehoode he expelleth the dyuels themselues out of the possessed bodies Nowe if Princes and Monarches haue the Office and power to doe these spirituall functions whiche I haue shortâ—lie and in parte noted then shall they also be holie Fathers and take vnto them the title of Supreamehead vnder God in earth But if no man be so foolishe as to holde it that a Prince is a Priest then are you answered that the Pope at this daie is some other thinge than a Monarche or a prince And so we praie you to be content and not to sue vnto vs for aunswer of that whiche is in plaine sight so euident against al truthe As for Cardinalles who you say must be none other now but Princes and kinges sonnes doe ye thinke that of Princes and Kinges Sonnes one maie loke for no other thiÌ„g but wildnes youthfulnes and ignorance Cardinal Pole the Cardinall of Loreine Hercules Gonzaga Gaspar Contarenus Fregosius Nauagerus These I trow if any be are the â—ardinalls whom you wil nuÌ„ber emong the Sonnes of kinges and princes And what thinke you of them or what shal ye find in them Shal ye not find euerie one of them more notable and famous for theyr learning and vertue thaÌ„ for theyr familie and Parentage If ye thinke then that the Princes Sonnes that are made Cardinalles are nothing els but vnlerned Courteours you shall shewe your selues to be verie simple Scholars whiche canne iudge no better of the foresaied Cardinalles On the other side if ye confesse them to haue bene and yet to be men verie wyse and learned then maie ye mistruste your wittes and iudgement in obiectinge that as an Infamie to the See of Rome that the Noble men whiche thâ—re are Cardinalles are Princes Sonnes Whereas the same be greate Diuines also and Doctours But it greiueth you that Cardinalles muste be none other now but Princes and Kinges Sonnes There is no muste in the mater For the pooreste of you all if his pouertie consisted in byrthe onelie and not in witte and honestie he might be not onlie a Cardidinall but also A Pope Lyke as of Adrianus the sixthe we not onelie reade that he was borne at â—ltreichtâ— of verie poore Father and Mother but also we heare of the Auncient in Louane that he liued here by begging very much at the beginning But ye affecte not to be Popes Cardinals perchaunce ye could lyke to be if that letted it not that Cardinals must be none other now but princes and kings SoÌ„nes As who should say that no man knoweth that Hosius Seripando Amulio Sirlettus and he de ara Coeli in Rome are Cardinals by authority and meane mens Sonnes by natiuitie But to conclude it appeareth that you are very base borne childerne whiche so beggarlie and ignorantly talke of maters out of your knowledge and woulde seeme to haue no litle intelligence of the state of the court of Rome of which ye so speke as pedlars that make discourses in Alehouses of Reformation in Religion and war or peace betwen Princes aÌ„d not as graue men whiche shoulde be sure firste of that whiche they saie especiallie when they speake in the name as it were of A whole Realme or Countrie The 9. Chapiter Of an impudent and desperate maner of lying which may well be called facing of a Lye As for those thinges which by them haue bene layed against vs Apolog. in parte they be manifestly false and condemned so by theyr owne iudgementes whych spake them SHewe Con. 10. where when and by whom If they perchaunce will not see that Apolog. which they see in deede but rather will withstand the knowen truth You doe well to adde perchaunce and yet you be to suspicious without very good argument Conf. 19. to thinke that anie Catholike will withstand the knowen truth Lorde God thou knowest Apolo that our Aduersaries were the verie foes to the Gospel and enemies to Christes crosse who so wittingly willingly did obstiuately despise Gods commaundements In this you haue done politikely Con. 151. to appeale to the knowledge of God with Lord God thou knowest For in the iudgement of men which knowe not what is within an others breast except it be vttered by some external signe it is impossible that you should with any reason obiect it vnto vs that wittingly and willingly and obstinately we despise Gods commaundements hauing no word or writing of ours by which ye are hable to shew it And if you haue any let that rather be brought foorth than a naked slaunder onely exhibited without any confirmation or likelyhode Our enemies doe see Apolog. and can not denie but we euer in all our wordes and writings haue diligently put the people in mynde of their duetie to obeie their Princes and Magistrates yea though they be wicked If we can not denie it Conf. 175. howe is it that we doe denie it Yea rather howe could we denie that which is to be sene so openly Are you only straungers in the affaires of the newe Ghospel and doe ye not knowe howe it hath proceded hytherto Tel me I pray you whose counsell the Duke of Saxonie and the Lantgraue of Hesse did followe when they stoode in Armes against theyr laufull Emperour Charles the fifth Of what Ghospell was Luther when he wrote that the Emperour and Catholike Princes were proditores scelesti vanique nebulones traitours wicked men and vaine knaues How came the Caluinists by Geneua a denne nowe of the Gospellers and vnto what Prince should it be subiect if right and conscieÌ„ce could preuaile emoÌ„g them By whom was Pultrone chosen vnto that ministery to kyl the Duke of Guise the chief Captaine of the French King Was not Beza the preacher one of them that promoted him to that office And to be short were your eares only not those thinges which they bost they haue c. and though they haue a desire rather to dissemble yet they them selues are not ignorant thereof yea somtime also they let not to confesse it opeÌ„ly See Con. 252. how deuoutly these felowes can make lies They talke with God about the matter and they comfort themselues with this I trow that he yet is their witnes that we haue not Antiquitie Vniuersalitie and Consent which we say we haue And it foloweth that we our selues are not ignorant hereof but the proof hereof as I suppose is to be referred to the knouledge of the good Lord only For coÌ„cerning the knowledge of meÌ„ wheras it is manifest by al our doings and writings that we haue those three thiÌ„gs for vs Antiquitie Vniuersalitie Consent and that against al our
to crake of these thinges which are readie to depart as lightly as they came and returne backe againe as quickely as they went away Or doth it consist in true visions and reuelations Not by meanes of reuelations That is much Yet they also shuld be referred to the iudgemeÌ„t of the Rulers in Christs Church before ful credite might he geaueÌ„ vnto them because there may be iust feare of illusions The case therfore being so harde with you as we take it name that meane which reioyseth your harte so much by which aboue the rate of other poore soules you vnderstand the Iudgement of God and stand to it only The Scripture forsooth you wil runne vnto and there loe God him self speaketh vnto you But how Immediatlie by him selfe or by meanes of inferiour things If immediatly why goe ye then to the Scripture Ergo by the meanes of the Characters and letters of the scripture and then the crake is very absurde which is needlesse in that kind of immediate talke But if he speake to you and you heare him â–ª by meanes of these visible characters and letters of Scripture of which visible letters wordes and sentences be made and in which words intelligible senses are concluded and if his be all that so stoutly ye 〈◊〉 of â–ª that ye staÌ„d vnto Gods only iudgemeÌ„t it hath a shew of a great mater and in deede it is of no valew and it maketh the reader beleue that you are wiser then other in your procedings yet whosoeuer wil coÌ„sider them earnestlie shal perceaue that your crakes are most vnreasonable For in the meanes which Almightâ— God vseth in vttering his blessed wilâ— vnto our grosse vnderstandings and sensible natures there be diuers degrees â–ª and not all of like dignitie or worthines As when he declared his minde to the Fathers in the old lawe by sending of Angels in forme of men and when he sent afterwardes his only begotten Sonnâ— in the truth of our nature To vnderstand the vvil of God bimeanes of vvriting is one of the basest And when this blessed Sonne of his declared what he was by sundry miracles and further chose certaine simple men and vnlerned to send them into the world to conquer al the pride and knouledge of the world and to be short when these Apostles of Christ sent vnto diuers places the will of God conteined in their epistles or Gospell In all these degrees the lowest and basest meane to deriue by it vnto vs the will of God is by Scripture and letters You therfore which by your staÌ„ding to Gods only iudgemeÌ„t doe meane his iudgement vttered by meanes and not immediatly by himselfe you also which doe signifie thereby that you folow a better and more excelleÌ„t way than other do you I saie being proued to take the wil of God vttered in scripture and writing for that most excellent waie which by all reason is a more vnperfite and base meane thaÌ„ the appearing of Angels preaching of men or working of miracles what do you els but crake of that as the chiefest which hath his better and refer your self to that as principal whiche requireth other thinges to goe before it If you wil heare more certainly and principally that which God commaundeth ye must go not to the scriptures immediatly but to them that shall tell you what the Scripture is and reade it after a Catholike tune vnto you The Pope is appeached by vs of hainous and foule enormities Apol. and hath not yet put in his answere In what court Confut. 218. before what iudges What yere of our Lord for what foul enormity Your selues may be wel enough Phariseis But wher are your scribes your sumners your apparitors for this mater Is not thâ—s an exceding absurd folie to appeach which importeth an order and forme of law by you obserued him with whoÌ„ you haue nothing to doe And to complaine that he putteth not in his answer whom you can not appeach And which if he would knoweth not where anie consistorie of yours is to answer you in it Your selues would not appere being summoned to the late general Councel where out of al ChristeÌ„dome there were your betters both for spiritual and teÌ„poral gouermeÌ„t and therefore ye would not because they haue as you must now thinke nothing to do with you and now your worshipful wisedomes haue appeached the Pope as though you had iurisdiction ouer him Besides this if the Popes enormities of which you speake coÌ„cerne the priuate liâ—e and maners of the Pope may an English magistrate whatsoeuer he be require by law and conscience that cause to be brought before him On the other side if ye haue appeached not Pius Quintus now Pope a most nolie and innocent Father nor anie of his late predecessours in this respecte as they were priuate men but as heades of the church then haue ye called into iudgemeÌ„t al ChristiaÌ„s which obey them as accessories to their enormities And so besides the Pope Cardinals Archbishops Bishops Priests and others of the clergy either ye haue â–ª or by as good law you may appeach the King of Spaine Fraunce Scotland c. with al the princes Dukes and States of Christendome and yet not accuse them for feare but be shrew theÌ„ for your office sake that they do not put in theyr aÌ„swer Such iudges as you be â–ª such a king was capitaine Kete or if that similitude be not fit you be like to the madde frontike prince of whom it is readen that he tooke care and ioye ouer al the shippes of strangers which passed in great numbre doune by his palace hauing in deede poore kinge verie fewe good vesselles of his owne to crake of Trulie whether the Pope will put in his answer or whether he hath receiued your Iudgement I wil not striue vpon it but for desire to see the ende of your processe against him ye should haue don exceading wel me thinketh to send your Officers some to Rome there to watche when the Pope with al his Cardinalles sitteth in the Consistoriâ— other some to the Emperour wheresoeuer he be in Campe or in Courte and when eche of them is occupied about maters of the Churche and the Empire sodaynlie let your Officers come and arrest I can not tel yet in whose name excepte it be of the Apologie of the Church of Englande but it is no mater for the name let your Officers doe as you commaunde them and lâ—tte them firste arreste the Pope anâ— his Cardinalles as principall with al the Bishoppes about him And then afterwardes the Emperour as accessorie with all his Dukes and nobles and bring them closely to London before hygh commissioners and vntil they wil be ruled and put in theyr answer set them faste here and there through all the gates and prisons in London For either you haue no law or possibilitie to appeach the Pope or els surely ye may by these meanes constraine him to bring in his
as sone as anie fine and excellent Scholare came to Rome he should straitewaies be apointed out to be the next Pope so the See being vacant this for saied Iohane was no maÌ„ knoweth how inthronizated and yet it is not only bysides the practise of the Churche of Rome but also against common sense and reason that anie should be chosen vnto that Office whom they should not knowe by manie yeares experience and by commendation of worthie personnes And also perceiue by the face it self to be a maÌ„ lykelie to gouerne the Church discretly But now saith the tale further beâ—ing in the Popedome she is begoteâ— with child of her seruant For ye 〈◊〉 understand that her old louer was 〈◊〉 dead or that either she was weary him or he of her and that she kept hâ— self an honest woman vntil the seconâ— yeare of her Popedome at which timâ— her seruant begot her with child It is very credible she was past child bearing which had a louer before she went to Athenes and liued there 〈◊〉 long not without louers I trow til she was the best scholar in the Vniuersitie â–ª And â—aried then afterwardes in Rome til she was thought worthy to be Pope But the grace of the tale were lost anâ— all the short of the heretikes were marred except she had a child And 〈◊〉 say they not knowing the tyme of her deliueraÌ„ce as she weÌ„t from S. Peters to LateraÌ„ she brought furth and dyed How incredâ—ble â–ª that a woman and so honest a woman as from â—er youth had ben an harlot aÌ„d so lerned that none was found to be compared with her should not knowe the time of â—er delyuerance or not make so nigh a 〈◊〉 at it that she would neuer venâ—er abroade when ieobardie might arise of betraying her selfe How vnlikelie also that before the mater was opened in procession she could kepe it so close that none of the curiouse Italian eies could perceiue it either that shee looked not like a man or did not so be haue her selfe as men doe or were nothiÌ„g chainged in bodie or countenance from that pleight she was in eight or nine moneths before But I wil leaue to make further coniectures this is certaine the best Historiographers make no mention of any Iohane Ioannes Polonuâ— a monke and he whom the heretikes at this time folowe and which is theyr first author in this tale is such a one as is altogeather vnworthie of credite To whose eares hath it not come Apolog. that N. Diasius a Spaniard being purposely sente from Rome into Germanie 〈◊〉 shamefully aâ—d diuellishly murther 〈◊〉 owne brother Thon Diasius a moste innocent and a most godly man onely because he had embraced the Ghospell 〈◊〉 Iesu Christe and would not returne againe to Rome How proue you Confutation 1â—7 that he was purposely sent from Rome As though the Pope or anie of the Cardinalles had so greate care what the poore correctour Iohn Diasius the Spaniard did in his masters shoppe in Germanie How proue ye also that Diasius his brother did murther him For he did not onely not murther him but not so much as know of it before it was done The whole matter was brought before Iudges Diasius was deliuered and he that in deede committed the murther was condemned Howe vniustlie then doe you to condemne him for a murtherer whom hys lawfull Iudges haue absolued Yow will I trust repent or els you will answere for it when it shal be to late to repent Who hurled vnder his table Apolog. Frauncis Dandalus the Duke of Uenice King of Creta and Cypres fast bounde wyth chaynes to feede of bones amonge the dogges No bodye Confut. 186. But tell vs now againe who hath made fyue lyes in so fewe lines First Dandalus was not hurled vnder the table Sabellic Decad. 2. lib. 1. but he came of his owne accorde And to moue the Pope vnto pitie creeped vppon all fower to his table and there layed hym selfe doune Secondlie he was not then Duke of Venice For their Dukes vse not to be Ambassadours nor to goe out of the Citie nor Kyng of Creta nor Cypres For the Venetians haue no Kynges in their State Thirdlie he was not fast bounde in chaines sauing that one chaine which he put about his owne necke and which he might haue taken of and gone awaie at his pleasure Fourthly he was not hurled vnder the table to feede of bones For neither the Pope doth make any fare so harde neither setteth he any man to diner vnder his table Last of all that he should be hurled doune to feede amoÌ„g dogges I thinke that either the Pope hath none at all eyther that he hath other places for theÌ„ or that he maketh not man and beastes commensales together Tel me then now who hath made so vile so spitefull so doggish and so many lyes within iij. or fower lines togeather And al this shal ye find in the very History of Sabellicus Decad. 2. lib. 1. col 1220. And the Quotation is true although M Iewell in his Sermon of late did tel it for a worthy point to be noted that Sabellicus neuer wrate Decades but Enneades Which if it had bene true the mistaking yet of the Title of a booke was not much to be spoken of as long as it is found to be true that which is reported as out of such a booke But thankes be to God there is no harme done to D. Hâ—rding because Sabellicus hath in deede written Decades of the Story of the Venetians although there be extant also Enneades of other Stories which he intitleth Rapsodia And M. Iewel in pressing his Aduersary so earnestly with such a trifle and yet fayling therein also of his purpose doth proue himselfe to be driuen very sore vnto his shiftes and that he is much to be pytied that he hath not like good successe vnto his greate courage Who set the Emperiall Croune vppon the Emperour Henrie the Sixths heade Apolog. not with hys hande but with his foote And with the same foote agayne caste the same Crowne of saying withall he had power to make Emperours and to vnmake them againe at hys pleasure You by likelyhood can tel which aske the question For vnto vs it is not onlie a fable but a foolish one also and absurde and malicious Who put in armes Henrie the Sonnâ— against the Emperour his Father Apolo Henry the fourthe And wrought so that the Father was taken prisoner of hys Sonne and being shorne and shamefully handeled was thrust into a Monasterie where with hunger and sorowe he pyned away to death The Pope did none of all these thinges Conf. 187 But the Sonne himselfe after a greate foile and ouerthrowe whiche his Father had taken at the Saxons handes seing him to be so strooken with feare that he durst not appeare abrode he toke vpon him selfe the administration of the Empire and fought afterwades against his owne Father which
Ecclesiasticall or the Temporall Court to encounter them withal they did not belieue And so I say and thou sayest went to and fro betwene them without anie conclusion or profite To driue therefore the mater to some Issue let vs heare no more saieth he I saie or thou sayest but this sayeth our Lorde his bookes we both belieue we both obey there let vs seeke the Church Now in other Kyndes of question as of fasting receiuing the SacrameÌ„ts keping of holy dayes and other traditions S. Augustine wold neuer bind vs to Scripture onlie him selfe saying of these and the like in his Epistle ad Ianuarium August â— epist. 116. ad â—anuarium What so euer the whole Church thorough the worlde dothe kepe thereof to dispute it is a most insolent madnes Likewise also towarde such kynde of Aduersaries as woulde be tried hy testimonies of olde Fathers togeather with Scriptures or without expresse Scripture he would neuer charge vs to vse these wordes onelie This saieth our Lorde but well would haue bene contented that we should saie â–ª this saieth Cyprian Ambrose Basile c. him selfe speakinge of Auncient Fathers before and in his tyme after this fasshion Quod credunt Contra IulianuÌ„ PelagianuÌ„ lib. 1. ca. 2. credo that whiche they beleue I beleue that whiche they say I say c. Therefore ye haue abused very muche your Reader and S. Augustine bothe making the one to thinke the other to testifie that we should not fight against Heretikes but with expresse Scripture onelie Fulgentius ad Thrasimundum saith Apolog. that Christ thoâ—gh he be absent from vs concerning his manhode yet is euer present with vs concerning his Godhead The forme of a seruant is one thing Confut. 3â— and manhood is an other The forme perteineth to shape and figure which couereth our substance and maketh it visible the manhood perteineth to the inwarde nature and is only intelligible The first is not graunted nor taught of the Catholikes that Christ is with vs now in earth after the forme of a seruant The second yet they confesse and belieue that he is with vs really in his manhood The first is Fulgentius true sayeng to the king Thrasimund The second is your deprauing of Fulgentius in face of the worlde Sozomenus saieth of Spiridion Apolog. and Nazianzene saieth of his owne Father that a good and diligent Bishoppe doth serue in the ministery neuer the worse for that he is maried but rather the better and with more hablenes to doe good It will neuer I feare be better with you Confut. 76. but alwaies worse and worse Would ye make Gregorie Nazianzene contrarie to the Apostle And S. Paule so expresselie pronouncyng that he which hath a wyfe is carefull for the thinges of the world 1. Cor. 7. and is diuided thinke you that any Auncient Father or writer whose testimonie your selfe doe trust were likely to say that a Bishop dothe serue the better in the ministery for that he is maried I am glad ye geue credit to Sozomenus and Nazianzene vsing them for witnesses that we may see whether ye wil regard their owne very wordes and crie them mercy for abusiug them Sozomenus saith thus speaking of SpiridioÌ„ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lib. 1. c. â—◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This Spiridion waâ— an husband man hauyng wyfe anâ— chyldren but he was not therefore the worse to Godward How thinke you then doth he praise Mariage Doth he saie He serued God the better and wyth more hablenes by reason thereof Doth he not rather note it as a rare and a singular grace in him that hauing such occasions of diuidyng and distracting his mind he neuerthelesse was nothing abated in his diligence and attention towardes God Nazianzene likewyse speaketh of S. Basiles Fathers perfect life in mariage with A but yet saying Although he put himself in bondes of mariage yet he liued so therein as he was letted no whyt therefore from the attaining of perfect vertue and folowing of wisedome As who should say it commeth most times so to passe that when students or holy men are maried they looke but seldome on their bookes but wait vpon the busines of the world yet was it otherwyse with Basiles Father For he although he put himself in bonds of mariage yet he was no whit letted therefore c. In which words he coÌ„mendeth his vertue and geueth no exaÌ„ple to vnmaried Priests that if they wil be furthered to perfectioÌ„ they should not be without a bedfelow nomore thaÌ„ he which should report of an other that he sitteth at a table ful of delicats and yet neuer surfeiteth vpon them that proue that it is a right waye to temperance alwaies to be at many and fine dishes Whereas contrariwise in all things that are delectable vnto the senses and hurtfull by excesse vnto morall vertues the safest way is to flee from occasions of euill vntil by longe custome an habite be obteined in the vertue And then as it is an argument of greate perfection to liue with a woman and nothing to be hindred in deuotion by her so it is so rare a vertue and needelesse thoughe it be in a man to be practised that as it may sometimes come to passe that one is not the worse yet there was neuer yet any man so blind and vnsensible which would thinke it to be a preferment toward perfection to be at bed and at borde with a woman The more you haue then to answer for which haue fathered such a sense on S. Gregory Nazianzene S. Hierome Al these things saith he which without the testimony of the Scriptures Apolog. are holdeÌ„ as deliuered from the Apostles be throughly smitten doune by the sword of Gods worde He saith not generally al those things Conf. 30 oiÌ„a but In â—rinâ—uÌ„ cap. Aggaei Sed alia that is and other thinges also And he saith not which are holden asseruÌ„tur but which they find and fâ—ncie meaning heretikes of whom onely he speaketh in that place And therefore he maketh not a generall rule against Traditions but a special prouision against the deceits of heretikes It was ryghtly said by Pius the second a bishop of Rome Apolog that he sawe many causes why wiues should be taken away from Priests but many moe and more weighty causes why they ought to be restored to them againe His wordes Conf. â—0 as Platina reporteth are these that mariage hath bene takeÌ„ froÌ„ Priestes with great reason And that it semeth it were to be restored again with greater Note it semeth not it ought and note greater reaâ—on and not manie moe and more weyghtie And if he had so ernestly spoken as you suppose yet dothe he not allowe the mariage of priestes whiche he confesseth to haue bene taken away for greate cause but so muche he seemeth to be greaued with the loosenes of theÌ„ in his time that he thought the causes why they might be permited to
came also thither And seeking the fauâ—â— of his frinds in a certain cause of his owâ— at length he coÌ„meth to Cardinal Martin Yea sayth he Decepisti me Nesciebâ—tibi imminere negotiuÌ„ tolle equuÌ„ tuuÌ„â— ecce in stabulo est you haue deceued me I knew not ye had any sute in haÌ„d Take your horse to you loe yonder he is in the stable This is one and he I truste no deceauer or Pilate An other Cardinal Gauâ—rid is Gaudfridus Bishope of Cartres which many yeres together was at his own charges Embassadour and legat froÌ„ the Pope in the costs of Gascoigne Of whoÌ„ he telleth that ther was a sturgeoÌ„ brought vnto him by a certain priest but I wil not take him sayd the Cardinall except I pay for him Againe a Ladie of the towne where he lodged brought vnto him for deuotioÌ„ and good wil three treen disshes with a towel he behâ—ld theÌ„ he praised theÌ„ but in any case he would not take them And at both these tymes S. Bernard was present And saieth herevpoÌ„ vnto Eugenius O that we might haue store of such meÌ„ geueÌ„ vnto vs as thes were whoÌ„ I brefly haue spokeÌ„ of If therefore the Pope him selfe was good and some Cardinalles and Bishopes were holie men how can you withoâ— impudencie drawe S. Bernard to such 〈◊〉 sense as thoughe he should condemâ—â— the whole See and Church of Romeâ— And if as I saied before you thinke him not to speake generally what helpeth it your cause in departing from the Church to proue that some Prelates be Pilats Secondly I might wel and truely say that S. Bernard speaketh against the maners of the Court of Rome and not against the faith of the Church of Rome And though he should name the Pope for his euill behauiour which he doth not a Pilate yet concerning his Authoritie and office he geueth vnto him all the titles of excellencie that are found in the Scriptures from Abel to Christ. Affirming besides him to be the shepheard not only of shâ—pe but of all other Shepheardes also â–ª and Others to haue bene called to take parte of the cure but hym to haue fulnes of power with other such wordes more of like sense Thirdly I aunswere he neuer spake so vnreuerentlie of the Pope in all hys workes And that the testimony which you alleage is not in the bookes ad Eugenium The old Father Epiphanius saieth Apolog. it is an horrible wickednes Epiph. and a sinne not to be suffred Haere 61. for any man to set vp any picture of Christ him selfe See how these felowes caÌ„ amplifie and â—et furth a lie Confut. â—35 Epiphanius they thinke â—aketh for theÌ„ and therfore they dresse â—im in their own colours Ye find not in hiÌ„â—either these greauous and mightie terâ—es horrible wickednes and Synne â—ot to be suffred Neither these precise â—onclusions that any man shal not set â—p anie picture Neither this aggrauaâ—ing additioÌ„ of Christ him self He speaâ—eth quietly and he speaketh not geneâ—ally but against a certaine kind of Imaâ—es or honor done to them as appeareth by the words istiusmodi vela such kinâ— of veiles And he prescribeth nothinâ— against the Image of our Sauiour Christâ— If ye wil not leaue this place but proâ—â— that it maketh against Images Pluckâ—â— out first these lies and repaire the testimonie making it neither better neither worse then Epiphanius doth permit you and then shal you be otherwise answered The old fathers Origen Chriysosâ—â— exhort yâ— people to reade the scriptures Apolog. to bye them bookes to reason at home betwixt theÌ„selues of diuine maters wiâ—es with their husbaÌ„ds parents with their childreÌ„ These men condeÌ„ne yâ— scriptures as deade â—lemeÌ„ts And as much as eueâ— they may barre the people from them Ye ioyne these two Fathers togeather as though they both confirmed your lyes Confut. 236. But Origene neither speaketh of byeing bookes Ho. 9. in Leuit ca. â—16 nsither of reasoning at home 〈◊〉 the scriptures but of comiÌ„g to church aÌ„â— heariÌ„g the scriptures and of thinking afterwardes at home vpon the keping of them in mynde and folâ—wing them Then as concerning S. Chrysostome he speaketh agaynst suche as neglected the reading of Scriptures and thought this to he a sufficient excuse for them that they were no Monkes Ho. 2. in Matth. as who shuld saâ—e we haue wife children and household with other things besides to thinke vpon and therefore it is not our vocation to looke in the lawe of God and by that to amende our liues He speaketh likewise against other which loued to haue faier and trym books of the Gospel for ostentation sake not to reade them and profit by them Of which sort ther may be found at this preseÌ„t som in the world which liuing loosly and regarding their soules health slenderly cary yet the testameÌ„t or some parte thereof bouÌ„d vp in goldeÌ„ forel and hang it about their necks like a Iewel But as for the biyng of Scriptures he spaketh it by occasioÌ„ oÌ„ly in reprouiÌ„g such as had books in their cupbords aÌ„d no vnderstaÌ„ding or sense of them in their mind For after he had saied Hom. 3â— in loan This hauing of bookes coÌ„meth of the Iewish ambition and craking vnto whom the coÌ„maundementes were geuen in letters and vnto vs not so but in the tables of our hart which are of fleash least he shuld sem to derogate somwhat hereby vnto the written Scriptures he addeth yet I do not forbid it to gette books yea rather I pray you most ernestly get them but so that we maie repere often in our minde both the letters and sence the of them He was not therefore so careful of it that euery man shoulde bye the scripture but this he studied for that euery man should be diligeÌ„t in bearing away of the scriptures readen â–ª or preached in the open church Proue ye now that S. Chrysostome exhorted all and singular of his people to bye them bookes especially in the vulgar tounge And iudge ye whether he had so little discretion to moâ—e al therevnto which verie few could bring to passe the raritie and pryce of the written bookes being considered Nowe as concerning the other lie that wiues at home with theyr husbandes or children with theyr parentes should reason betwixt themselues of diuine maters either I vnderstand not your englishe or els ye abuse S. Chrysostom most shamefully For if ye meane that al that reasoniÌ„g which you imagin signifieth no more but that the father shuld instruct his sonne aÌ„d the wife geue eare to her husbandes good counsel then surely you must pardoÌ„ me I neuer vnderstood this much before that reasoning of diuine maters should haue so litle question in it But if reasoning betwixt parties doth importe an argueing to aÌ„d fro with obiections solutions replies resolutions diuises suppositioÌ„s c. And if reasoning of diuine maters doth signifie the questioÌ„ proponed not to be of so smal