Selected quad for the lemma: father_n
Text snippets containing the quad
|
ID |
Title |
Author |
Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) |
STC |
Words |
Pages |
|
A28584
|
An examination of Dr. Comber's Scholastical history of the primitive and general use of liturgies in the Christian church by S.B.
|
Bold, S. (Samuel), 1649-1737.
|
1690
(1690)
|
Wing B3479; ESTC R18212
|
38,935
|
70
|
were exprest freely according as the occasion required I shall leave the indifferent Reader when he peruseth what the Doctor hath said about this matter to conclude as he shall see fit whether the Doctor hath cleared this Passage to his satisfaction For I think the Question is not whether those words he relates there were the very words they constantly used on that occasion but whether there was a Prayer ready prescribed for that occasion If there were not and they did ordinarily pray for the things mentioned without being confined to use the same words every time do you judge whether this Passage do make more for the Doctor or Mr. Clarkson It is in my judgment but a poor answer for the Doctor to insinuate P. 70. that a Primate may occasionally pray without a prescribed Form but inferiour Priests may not unless Ministerial abilities are not to be exercised proportionably to the measure in which God hath conferred the same but accordingly as those who have them can climb up towards the top of Ecclesiastical Dignity and Preferment His second Allegation saith the Doctor out of St. Cyprian for such occasional Prayers is P. 71. that there are also mention of such occasional Prayers in the Epistle to Moses and Maximus but he durst not saith the Doctor cite the place at large which only speaks of private Prayers made by these Confessors in prison c. Now because the Doctor hath such a mind to have the place cited at large I will do it and then leave you to judge whether it only speaks of private Prayers or whether the Passage do speak at all of the Prayers of these Confessors Mr. Clarkson refers to the particular Epistle and the words are these Et nos quidem vestri diebus ac noctibus Cypr. epist ad Mos Maxim me mores quando in sacrificiis precem cum pluribus facimus cum in secessu privatis precibus oramus coronis ac laudibus vestris plenam domini faventiam postulamus There is one instance more P. 71. the Doctor takes notice of and seems to be in some passion with Mr. Clarkson about it Now the matter stands thus Mr. Clarkson in one part of his Book is shewing that the Ancients were not so wedded to particular words and phrases as some have been in latter years And to give some proof of this he doth shew amongst other instances that they did not conceive Christ had so tied them up in the Administration of Baptism that they must necessarily use just those very words he had set down relating to this matter in the Gospel but that they had leave to vary their expressions and change those words related in the Gospel for others provided they did not change the sence He shews they did ordinarily vary in several particulars and amongst the rest he saith some thought themselves not obliged to Baptise expresly in the name of the Sacred Trinity so as to name every person as they are mentioned Mat. 28.19 but in the name of Christ or of the Lord Jesus or of the Lord. He farther adds and this supposed to be the practice of the best times hath great Advocates He names several who are and were far enough from being lookt upon as Hereticks Afterwards he quotes this very Passage in St. Cyprian which creates the Doctor so much disturbance The Doctor seems to be displeased because Mr. Clarkson did not quote the Passage entire P. 72. without leaving out any words and then tells us St. Cyprians words are these How then do some say who are cut of the Church yea against the Church that if a Pagan be any where or any way Baptised in the name of Christ Jesus he may obtain the Remission of Sins And hereupon the Doctor falls into a warm sort of short talk about Hereticks and Schismaticks Now St. Cyprians words are these Quomodo ergo quidam dicunt Cypr. ad Jubai foris extra ecclesiam modo in nomine Jesu Christi ubicunque quemodocunque gentilem Baptizatum Remissionem peccatorum consequi posse I will not dispute whether the Doctor hath translated this Passage as it ought to be translated though I do not know any necessity that there is that foris extra ecclesiam must be used as explanatory of quidam But all that Mr. Clarkson brought this Passage for was to prove that some in St. Cyprians days were of the above mentioned opinion And I think the quotation is full to that point He did not produce this place to prove they were Orthodox in St. Cyprians Judgement but he doth expresly declare St Cyprian did not allow it yet I am not sensible that it doth follow they were either Hereticks or Schismaticks because foris extra ecclesiam is in this sentence The Doctors next proof for Liturgies is from the account St. Basil gives concerning Gregory Thaumaturgus P. 72. who was so much for a Liturgy that we have the testimony of St. Basil saith the Doctor concerning him that he appointed a Form of Prayer for that Church of Noeocesarea from which they would not vary in one Ceremony or in a Word nor would they add one mystical Form to those which he had left them Now the Case was thus St. Basil was proving the Divinity of the Holy Spirit Basil de Spir. sancto cap. 29. from the Ancients Ascribing Glory and Power to the Father and the Son with the Holy Spirit And having named several of the Ancients who had taught that Glory and Power were to be Ascribed to the Spirit as well as to the Father and the Son he at last mentions Gregory the Great and proves that he was of the same mind from the present practice of that Church And to make it appear they had not varied from the Doctrine of that great man he reports the profound respect the people of that Country still had for him P. 73. So that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. as the Doctor relates in his Margin they would not add any Practice any Word or any mystical Form in the Church to what he had left with them By which I conceive he means that they did strictly observe that way and method for their ordinary Worship and kept strictly to those Doctrines and that way of Administring the Sacrament which were in use in Gregories time But he doth not say one word of Gregorie's appointing a Form of Prayer for that Church Nor does it follow that because they Worshiped God in the same manner a great many years after Gregory wherein they worshipped him in his time that therefore they used the very words he used Whereas it is said they did not add a word to what he left with them that doth not relate to their Prayers but to the Doctrine he taught for here St. Basil is speaking of the Divinity of the Holy Spirit and proving that Doctrine And in other places St. Basil takes notice how tenacious they were
of the Words in which Gregory did deliver the Doctrines of Christianity unto them particularly to prove his own Doctrine to be the same with what Gregory did teach Epist 75. he alledged his having learned from Macrina the Doctrines of Faith in the very words wherein Gregory had delivered them If it shall be said he is here proving the Divinity of the Holy Spirit by a part of their Worship viz. their ascribing Glory and Power to God what can be inferred from thence is but this That Gregory had taught them when they did ascribe Glory and Power to the Father and Son to add also With the Holy Spirit St. Basil farther adds They were so tenacious of what Gregory had taught and practised amongst them they would not depart from that simplicity in the Celebrating of the Worship of God which he observed though a more Pompous and Ceremonious way did prevail in other Churches and which some thought did better suit with the alteration of their circumstances But here you may take notice that St. Basil doth not alledge any Liturgy Gregory had composed for them but only pleads the present usage of that Church and argues it was the same in Gregories days not because they had a Liturgy of his Composing but because their respect to him all along to the present time was such they would not suffer any addition to be made to the method or order he observed or to the Doctrines he had taught To me it appears plain that there was not any Liturgy of Gregories Composing St. Basil could produce for his present purpose but finding something in the use of that Church which was pertinent to his business he alledges that and the better to inforce that allegation he urges the great probability there was that they received it from him and to put the more colour upon this he breaks forth into a Rhetorical Encomium on that Father and the great respect the people of that Country had for him So that the sentence the Doctor quotes only entertains us with an Hyperbolical account of the respect the people had for Gregory For St Basil himself doth speak much otherwise of this matter when it comes in his way upon a disserent occasion And particularly in that very Epistle the Doctor refers us to in the next place for a proof that this Gregory had appointed that Church a particular way of singing the Psalms P. 73. of which the Noeocesarean Clergy were so extreamly tenacious that when St. Basil would have brought in a better way they opposed him in it and objected that it was not so in the days of Gregory the Great 'T is true it was objected against that way of singing St. Basil would have introduced that it was not in use there in the time of Gregory But if you consider the Answer St. Basil makes to this Objection you will find him giving an account of the Noeocesareans very different from that we have in his Book de Spiritu Sancto Amongst other things which he saith Basil Epist 63. ad Cler. Noeoces he peremptorily enquires By what Testimonies will they make it evident that those things which he recommends to them were not in use in the time of Gregory Now assuredly this was a very strange sort of question if he knew they had a Liturgy of Gregory's Composing which they constantly made use of Or if they had but an Order of his framing which they were strictly to observe in the several parts of their Worship Yea he tells them to whom he Writes that they had not preserved any of those instances then used pure and uncorrupt unto that time moreover he very plainly intimates that there was no way to make a true judgment of what Gregory did but by consulting the Holy Scriptures When he mentions several particulars which he affirms concerning Gregory he doth not quote his Liturgy his Rubrick c. but express words of Scripture particularly he saith That Gregory Prayed with his Head uncovered Now how doth he prove this Not from any order Gregory had made concerning this matter but because the Apostle had said Every man Praying or Prophecying with his Head covered dishonoureth his Head And Gregory saith he was a genuine Disciple of the Apostles Thus you have an account of those two Passages the Doctor doth quote out of St. Basil And you may now judge whether it be possible to have a clearer proof in the World for Prescribed Forms than this And whether the Doctor had any occasion given him from these Allegations to break forth into such a Vaunting Discourse as he entertains his Reader with upon his having produced these quotations As for what the Doctor quotes out of Eusebius concerning Paulus Samosatenus It only concerns Hymns and I am not sensible that the way of arguing is cogent That because people do sing Hymns composed to their hands therefore they do or must necessarily pray by prescribed Forms One might think the Precentor of York should understand the difference there is betwixt praying and singing if any knowledge of the nature and use of singing of framing the voice into a regular melodious tunable sound in order to the raising of the affections be at all necessary to that Character And a due consideration of that might have prevented a great many tautologies which are to be found in his Scholastical History and would have made his Discourse much shorter than it is though it must have deprived the Reader of many of those flights which it may be the Doctor conceits are very graceful But if you have a mind to peruse the Passage the Doctor speaks of in Eusebius if you consult Valesius his Edition you must not look for it where the Doctor 's Margin directs but in lib. 7. cap. 30. I shall add no more saith the Doctor in this Century P. 76. but to observe that in the Epistle of Dionysius of Alexandria recorded by Eusebius it appears to have been the general usage of the Church for every one of the People to Say Amen when they heard the Priest offer them the Sacrament Euseb Hist Eccles lib. 6. cap. 35. p. 180. and say The Body of our Lord Jesus Christ c. which was a Form so universally used in all Churches of the world that we may conclude it was enjoyned by all Liturgies What Edition of Eusebius the Doctor made use of I do not know But his Margin gives me no assistance for the finding of the place he speaks of The Form the Doctor saith was so universally used I suppose is these words The Body of our Lord Jesus Christ c. Now I do not remember that Eusebius doth any where in his Sixth Book report either from Dionysius or any other that those words were universally used on the occasion the Doctor mentions But there is a passage in his Sixth Book which hath something of what the Doctor mentions whether that be the place the Doctor means I