Doctrine it is taken ill of them when they disclaim all such Tenets 't is call'd a Clamour and a Noise when they justifie themselves in Protesting against such false Imputations And if they say they are fouly Misrepresented this draws out a Vindication in a Postscript to sink the dirt in deeper For his part 't is no satisfaction to him to be engag'd in Disputes or Quarrels But yet he confesses he can no more forbear crying out when he sees Dirt unworthily thrown at his Religion than if it were cast in the Face of his Dearest Relations his Father or Mother and therefore he must needs say that if he finds any one dressing up a Papist to the Multitude as a Monster and shewing his Horns and cloven Foot to the Crowds he cannot stand by in silence but will cry out A Cheat A Cheat with endeavours to find out who the cloven Foot belongs to But however he could heartily wish there were no occasion for this that there were more Charity in the World and when Men speak of their Neighbours Faith and Religion that they would be truly serious and not think it a less Crime to cast an Aspersion in this particular than in other Concerns of their Good Name and Reputation he that wrongfully defames him for a Thief only injures his Person and at most his Family But he that casts an Infamy upon his Religion wrongs Millions and abuses the Multitude into a false Perswasion that upon this score 't is now more a Christians Duty to hate than to love one another The Divisions and Animosities amongst Christians at this day are but a sad Spectacle And God knows how far the Passionate Exaggerations and Rash Charges upon others Faith and Religion have been an Encouragement to these Evils He heartily wishes there were some Moderation in this Particular It being no Commendation to Christianity that her Members like the Canibals of America have no other way of Thriving than by Devouring each other nor a good Argument of the Truth of any Perswasion because they can make the greater Devil of their Neighbour But the Catechist in his Postscript will convince his Reader that the Papists Pray to Images For why says he do they direct their Prayers to them As they do to the Cross which they Salute after this manner Hail O Cross our only Hope c. But this shall be the Subject of our Next Publish'd with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's most Excellent Majesty for His Houshold and Chappel 1686. THE PAPIST Misrepresented and Represented SECOND PART CHAP. II. Whether Papists pray directly to the Cross as is positively asserted by a Protestant with an Essay of a Heathen-Catechism after the Copy of the Truly-representing Protestant-Catechism in which this Calumny is publish'd THe Papist Misrepresented does not only ascribe peculiar Vertues to the Cross praying that God would make the wood of the Cross to be the stability of Faith an increase of Good Works the Redemption of Souls as the Pontifical has it in Bened. nov Cru But they Pray directly to it saluting the Cross after this manner Hail O Cross our only Hope in this time of the Passion Increase Grace in the Godly and blot out the Sins of the Guilty in which very words they directly pray to it in the Hymn of the Passion which is in the Public Office of their Church Catech. tru repres Q. 46. Postsâ—r THe Papist Represented confesses and believes God to be the Fountain of all Goodness to be the Centre of all Vertue Power and Wisdom and that there is no Good whatsoever whether Spiritual or Temporal can arrive to him but what is to come immediately from God the Father through the Merits and Passion of Jesus Christ his only Son Our Redeemer Blessed for ever more in the Vertue of the Holy Ghost the Comforter Whatsoever Good therefore he desires whether the Stability of Faith Increase of good Works or the Redemption of his Soul c. he can hope to obtain from no other than from God the Author of all Good Gifts and Father of Mercies This Truth he owns and professes and believes himself bound rather to lose his Life then any ways contradict or deny it it being the very Doctrine deliver'd by St. James in his Epistle c. 1. v. 17. that Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above and cometh down from the Father of lights And having thus acknowledg'd that in God is infinitly treasur'd up all that can be called Good he likewise confesses that Man can be no otherwise partaker of any of these Blessings but according to the Pleasure and Ordinance of this infinit Being who essentially comprehends them all so that no Creature whatsoever whether in Earth or in Heaven tho the greatest Angel or Saint has power of themselves to bestow any of these Gifts upon Man they being wholy in the disposure of Him who is their Author and not to be communicated to any but as He shall order and appoint The Principal Means by which these Heavenly Blessings are deriv'd to the World is the Passion of Christ And the Way ordain'd for Christians to apply to themselves the Blessings thus purchas'd by our Redeemer is the Doing the Will of Heaven and Prayer By these he has access to that Heavenly Treasure and is made partaker of that rich store without which he can be nothing but eternally miserable Whensoever therefore he desires Increase of Grace Forgiveness of Sins or any other Divine Benefit from the Hand of God he endeavours to compose his Life and Actions according to the Prescript of the Commandments and Will of Heaven and raises his Heart and Soul by Prayer to petition assistance and a supply of his necessities from the Divine Throne And because he is taught from Scripture that God hears the Prayer of the Righteous he therefore desires sometimes the Just on Earth sometimes those in Heaven to unite in Prayer to be joynt-petitioners with him to the Seat of the Divine Majesty that so he may find more acceptance in the sight of God and obtain his desires through the Merits and Passion of Him who died for all But to think that he prays to the Cross or from any material Crucifix expects relief either for Body or Soul is only to render him more sottish than the worst of Heathens and in one extravagancy to make him out-do all the Frenzies of Bedlam He confesses it evident to the least glimpse of Reason that a piece of Wood or Stone fashioned into a Cross is no more capable of hearing his prayers or praying for him or granting his Requests than when it lay regardless upon the ground without either shape or figure And that if his Religion did either teach or practice such sâ—upid Idolatry as praying to a piece of Wood c. he could no more be any longer of her Communion than he could sacrifice to Molech or with the Zidonians and
are Partakers of it He pour'd out this very Bloud that we might not remain in Error and he not only pour'd it out but he has likewise given the very same to us Wheresore says he to us If you desire Blood do not colour the Altars of Idols with the Bloud of Beasts but upon my Altar offer up my Blood. And Lib. 3. de Sâ—câ—â—d O Miracle He that sits above with his Father at the very same instant of Time is here in the Hands of all he gives himself to those that are wâ—lling to receive him And Hom. 46. in Joan. The Devils when they behold the Bloud of Christ within us are put to Flight and the Angels come in This Bloud purified the Holy of Holies and if the Figure of it had so great Vertue in the Temple of the Jews and when sprinkled on the Doors of the Egyptians it has much greater now being the Truth Macar 27. Hom. 27 In the Church Bread and Wine are offer'd the Type of his Flesh and Blood and they who are Partakers of the visible Bread do Spiritually eat the Flesh of the Lord. S. Cyril Alexan Ep. ad Colos Cited by S. Thomas That we should not feel horror to see Flesh and Bloud on the Sacred Altars God condescending to our Frailty flows into the things offer'd the Power of Life converting them into the verity of his own Flesh to the end the Body of life be found in us as a certain quickning seed S. Greg Nyss c. 37. I do now rightly believe that the Bread sanctified by the Word of God is chang'd into the Body of God by the Word Pope Gelasius l. de 2. Nat. The Sacraments which we receive of the Body and Blood of Christ are a divine Thing by means whereof we are made Partakers of the divine Nature and yet the Substance of Bread and Wine doth not cease to be Here the Author has made a new Pope for this was another Gelasius as is prov'd at large by Bellarmin and if the words immediately following the text cited in the same Author be added the difficulty is remov'd which are these They the substance of Bread and Wine do pass into a Divine Substance the Holy Ghost effecting it yet remaining in the propriety of their Nature Here 's a short account of what the Primitive Fathers say as to the Point under debate which may be seen more at large in such volumes as designedly treat of this Subject And what think you now Misrepresenter Take both sides into your hands and weigh them and see to which part the Fathers incline Consider the matter a little and tell me whether the Fathers are such strict Protestants in this affair as is pretended Do you think They could have taken the Test Do their express belief of the real Presence of Christ in the Sacrament their plain assertion of the supernatural change of the Bread and Wine into the Body and Blood of Christ agree with that Parliamentary Divinity Come Misrepresenter it argues a great Stock of Confidence in you thus to pretend positively that the Fathers believ'd direct contrary to our Doctrine whereas 't is evident to any Eye that is not blinded like yours They deliver themselves most largely and fully in its behalf and that amongst all the Ends of Text you have pick'd out of them there is not so much as one directly contrary to what we hold Misrepresent You press too many Questions at once You bid me Consider and would have me Answer too But the best on 't is I need no consideration here for without it I know what I am to return and 't is that tho you heap up fifty times more express Testimonies than these yet the Fathers still believ'd direct contrary to your Doctrine They speak of the Sacrament and call it a Figure a Symbol a Sign an Image a Remembrance and this is a contradiction to your Belief and as long as these Words are to be found in them the People I have to deal with will take it so Represent This is thine own true self Misrepresenter to prove a thing by halves and call that consuting of Popery is your Master-piece Why these expressions of the Fathers terming the Sacrament a Figure a Symbol a Sign an Image a Remembrance are so far from being contrary to our Belief that they are as agreeable to it as to the Articles of the very Protestant Church it self For the Catholic Church teaches that the Body and Blood of Christ are in the Blessed Sacrament really and substantially and so indeed not only as in a Sign Symbol or Figure But it do's not deny the Sacrament to be a Figure for the Eucharist is a Figure or Representation of the Death of Christ It do's not deny it to be a Sign for the outward and visible species of Bread are a Sign of the Heavenly Bread that is within It do's not deny it to be a Remembrance or Commemoration for whosoever receives it shews forth according to St. Paul the Passion and Death of our Redeemer It do's not deny it to operate by a Vertue for it has Vertue and Power there to work in the Soul. What our Church denys and condemns is that the Body and Blood of Christ is there only as in a Sign or in a Figure or a Vertue and not according to the Verity and Substance of it You prove therefore nothing against us in producing Testimonies of the Fathers owning the Sacrament to be a Figure a Sign c. For this is not to shew Them contrary to us but positively agreeing with our Belief especially if taken together with what you see cited out of them in our favour If you will make good your Pretences and not abuse your Followers with half-demonstrations you should see first to understand the Doctrine of your Adversaries before you undertake to confute it Shew that the Fathers maintain the Sacrament to be only a Sign only a Figure c. and you may do something but till then don't pretend They believ'd contrary to us Misrepresent This is a put off with a piece of New Popery But let that go Some of the Fathers positively say that the Nature or Substance of Bread remains after Consecration I hope this too do's not agree with your Doctrine Represent What I have declar'd to you has nothing new in it 'T is asserted positively by Bellarmine and that every Sacrament is a Sign has been the constant Doctrine of our Divines who make that an essential part of the Definition of a Sacrament As for what some of the Fathers mention of the Nature or Substance of Bread remaining any one that is vers'd in their Writings is not ignorant that by those terms they often mean no more than the Natural qualities or visible appearances of things as you your selves can tell us upon occasion when it serves your turn to have it so and in this sence it do's not at all disagree with our Belief But suppose the worst
he think Bishop Jewel pray'd directly to the Sacrament do's he think He pray'd to the Bible and yet he owns he Worshipp'd them Both And in this WE Worship he expresses himself so like a Witness of the Doctrine of his Church that if our Modern Divines have not prevaricated from their Fathers and brought in New Protestantism being weaâ—y of the Old all the Sons of that Church are oblig'd to Worship them as much as that Prelate and this they may easily find a way to do without any necessity of praying to them directly 'T is not every thing that is any ways Worshipp'd is presently made an Obâ—ect capable of being Pray'd to I shew'd in my Last many things to be in some manner Objects of Worship which to Pray to would be an Absurdity For as Bishop Jewel Worship'd the Sacrament and Bible so we Worship the Bible too and as we Worship the Cross so likewise the Holy Sepulchre the Hâ—m of our Saviour's Garment his Crown of Thorns the very Ground on which his Sacred Feet stood and the Linnen in which his Body was laid not as God nor as Things capable of being pray'd to but as Bishop Jewel expresses it as Things in Religious wise to Christ belonging or as the Answerer has it as Things which have an eminent Relation to God and his Service And Jewel gives the Reason ib. p. 409. The Sacraments be ador'd says he but the whole honour resteth not in them but is passed over from them to the things signified As the Reverence shewn to a Bible or Church or Chair of State resteth not in them but passes over to God and the King. And as the Contempt shewn to a Duke's Picture or Pope's resteth not there but passes over to the Persons Represented This Nature Honest Reason and Practice easily understand however Learned Wranglers whose business is to overthrow not to build up may endeavour to confound it But we must Answer his Queries Quer. Whether the Crosses used in the Religious Service of the Church of Rome be mere Peices of Wood Answ Nothing more capable of being Pray'd to than mere Pieces of Wood. Quer. Whether they may not and are not to adore the Cross though they may not adore a mere Peice of Wood Answ Just as much as Bishop Jewel thought himself oblig'd to adore the Sacrament though he would not adore a mere piece of Bread. Quer. How the Cross which they Pray to Christ to Bless is made the Stability of Faith and Increase of Good Works Answ Just as the Bread and Wine may be to Protestants by being a Figure of Christ's Passion and a Remembrance of his Sufferings Quer. How the Cross upon which Christ hung may be Christ who hung upon the Cross Answ How the Cross may be Christ I can't tell But how the Word Cross may signifie Christ every School-boy knows as David in his Psalms often distinguishes the Earth from the People upon the Earth And yet often uses the Word Earth to signifie the People upon the Earth This is but a poor Cavil and very unbecoming Christians or Scholars to disturb the Nation withal Publish'd with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's most Excellent Majesty for His Houshold and Chappel 1686. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. VII The Vulgar among the Papists not depriv'd of the Word of God. They are better instructed in the true Sence of it than those of other Perswasions who teach themselves The Vnlearned and Vnstable wrest it to their own Destruction A Papist Misrepresented takes up all his Belief upon trust he is led through all the Mysteries of his Religion by the hand without seeing which way or whether he goes All from begining to end is blindness and ignorance the Scripture which should be his light is taken from him and what knowledg can he have when the Word of God which was ordain'd by the divine Wisdom for the instruction and comfort of poor Sinners is snatcht out of his hand and kept from him A Papist Rerepresented believes as the Church of God teaches and this not blindly but knowingly and understandingly as far as the littleness of humane Reason and his own Capacity will give him leave In order to this his Church has provided him of variety of learned Books explicating to him the Sence of the Scriptures as likewise the Articles of his Creed every Mystery of his Religion the ten Commandments the Sacraments and the whole Duty of a Christian and this in such numbers both in Latin and English and all other Languages that whosoever reproches him with blindness in the midst of so many Lights may with as good Reason prove him to be in the dark when Noon-day shines upon him Besides these Books the Church has given direction to all Parish-Priests to explicate on Sundays and Holy-days the Gospel and some Mystery of Faith to such as are under their Charge and to instruct them how to live vertuously and die holily And now if notwithstanding these helps and assistance some in his Church believe without Understanding and live without the knowledg of their Duty 't is not the Church is to be blam'd which has provided them of sufficient Means but they themselves to be condemned of negligence and sloth who thus carelesly starve in the midst of plenty and die with the Remedy before them Neither does he understand that the charge of being led in blindness and ignorance can be justly laid to any even to the Vulgar of his Communion because they have not the Scriptures permitted them to read and interpret at pleasure since 't is evident to any that has taken a considerate view of the Christian World in those Countries where the Scripture is thus permitted there 's as much Vice as much Blindness as much Ignorance of the Christian Faith and Profession as in any place whatsoever So that tho they have a Light about them they are either not taught how to use it or else approching it with too much Confidence and Presumption come too near it and put out their eyes Besides what danger of Ignorance and Blindness can there be to the Vulgar of his Communion from the not reading the Scripture Since such means are us'd for the instructing them in the Mysteries therein contained that they are not at all depriv'd of it nay since 't is deliver'd to them with much greater advantage and more for the improvement of their knowledg in the Mysteries of Faith and Duty of a Christian than those have it amongst whom 't is promiscuosly thrown to read and judg it themselves For let any one upon a due consideration tell me Which is the Scripture what is properly the Word of God Is it the Words of the Bible or the true Sence and Meaning of those Words 'T is certain the letter availeth nothing 't is the Spirit that enlivens 't is the Sence that instructs to Salvation Our concern then at present is not which have more of the Words of
in his Sermon at Paul's Cross to all his Learned Adversaries the Papists to bring against the Protestant Doctrine any one sufficient Sentence out of any One Catholic Doctor or Father for the Space of Six hundred Years after Christ and he is content to yield Whitaker renews the same Challenge Resp ad rat Camp. p. 90. provoking the Papists to the first Six hundred Years and if they can produce any one Father or Council against the Protestant Articles he grants the Victory It is the Offer of us all says he the same do we all promise and we will perform it So that as far as I see I have not exceeded the Protestant Bounds Repres Neither have I in our Enquiry pass'd these Limits Our Search has been restrain'd within the Compass of the First Six hundred Years and the whole System of Popery I have laid before you has been the Belief and Practice of the Christians of those Times And this will oblige you to consider what Grounds you have to trust to for the Support of the Pretended Reformation whilst you see some eminent Protestants Appealing to the Primitive Church of the First Six hundred Years and Challenging the Papists to produce any One Doctor in favour of Popery within that Compass and yet other Protestants at the same time are charging the most Learned and Eminent Fathers of those Ages as Abbettors of Popery and reprove them for being infected with Popish Doctrines Misrepres This you have been often Saying but I must see it Prov'd Repres Do you keep then in your Mind the Challenge of Bishop Jewel above mention'd wherein he provokes the Papists to shew One Father holding against the Protestant Doctrine in the First Six hundred years and bidding them Defiance upon this Trial the like of Whitaker and others and I le let you see the Concessions of some other Protestants upon the same Subject But have Patience then 1. For the allowing Vows of Perpetual Chastity and affirming them to be Obligatory S. Basil Ambrose Chrysostome Epiphanius and S. Austin are reprov'd by Chemnitius Exam. p. 3. p. 41 42. And the General Council of Chalcedon is confess'd to have forbidden Marriage to Monks and Nuns by Just Molit de Eccl. Milit. p. 80. 2. As touching the Sacrament Chrysostom is thought to confirm Transubstantiation Centur. 5. col 517. Eusebius Emissenus did speak unprofitably of Transubstantiation Cent. 4. col 985. In Cyprian are many Sayings which seem to affirm Transubstantiation Ursin Commen p. 211. 3. As concerning Sacrifice it is affirm'd by Learned Protestants that the Ancient Fathers viz. Athanasius Ambrose Austin c. err'd herein So Calvin and Dr. Field who say of them that they made a Sacrifice of the Lords Supper The Centurists likewise affirm of Cyprian that his Judgment in this Point is Superstitious Cent. 3. col 83. That the Writings of Irenaeus and Ignatius are herein incommodious and dangerous Cent. 2. c. 4. col 55. And that presently after the Apostles Times the Supper of our Lord was turn'd into a Sacrifice sebas Franc. in Ep. de Abrog 4. Concerning Prayer for the Dead It was general in the Church lorg before the Days of Austin as appears in Cyprian and Tertullian So Mr. G. Gifford in his Demonst p. 38. Mr. Fulk likewise acknowledges that Tertullian Cyprian Austin Jerome and a great many more do witness that Sacrifice for the Dead is the Tradition of the Apostles Consut of Purg. p. 362. That Prayer and Alms were made for the Dead almost from the very beginning of the Church Bucer in Enar. 4. Evang. in Mat. c. 12. 5. Concerning Merit of Works Dr. Humfrey says It may not be deny'd but that Ireuaeus Clement and others who are call'd Apostolical Men have in their Writings the Opinions of Free-will and Merit of Works Jesuitism par 2. p. 530. Origen and Chrysostome are affirm'd by the Centuriators to have handled impurely the Doctrine of Justification and that they attribute Merit to Works Cent. 3. col 265. and Cent. 5. col 1178. And not only Cyprian but almost all the Holy Fathers of that Time were in that Error as thinking so to pay the Pain due to Sin and to satisfie Gods Justice Whitak in Resp ad Rat. Camp. Rat. 5. 6. Concerning Invocation of Saints The Lord Archbishop of Cant. Discoursing of Doctrines taught in any Age since the Apostles Times affirms without any Exception of Age or Father That almost all the Bishops and Writers of the Grâ—ek Church and Latin also for the most part were spotted with Doctrines of Free-will Merit Invocation of Saints c. Whitgift Def. ag Rep. of Cartw. p. 473. Mr. Fulk likewise says I confess that Ambrose Austin and Jerome held Invocation of Saints to be lawful Rejoyn to Brist p. 5. S Cyprian is charg'd by the Cent. to maintain That Martyrs and Saints departed pray for the Living Cent. 3. col 84. Origen likewise with Prayer for himself to Holy Job and Invocation of Angels Cent. 3 col 83. and col 75. The same Centurists affirm moreover That there are manifest Steps of Invocation of Saints in the Doctors of that Ancient Age. Cent. 3. c. 4. col 83. 7. Concerning Confession and Absolution The Centurists confess That even in those Times of Cyprian and Tertullian was us'd Private Confession and that the same was then commanded and thought necessary Cent. 3 c. 6. col 127. That also Penance or Satisfaction was enjoyn'd according to the Offence Ib. And likewise that the Priest when the Confession was made and Penance enjoyn'd did afterwards Absolve the Penitent with the Ceremony of Impâ—sing his Hand Cent. ib. 8. Concerning the Primacy of Peter above the other Apostles the Ancient Fathers of the Church viz. Jerome Hilary Nazianzen Tertullian Cyprian Origen are reprehended by the Protestant Centurists viz. for affirming the Church to be built upon Peter Cent. 4. col 1215 555 558 c. The same Centurists reprove S. Cyprian for teaching say they without any foundation of Scripture that the Roman Church ought to be acknowledg'd of all other for the Mâ—ther and Root of the Catholic Church Cent. 3. col 84. In like manner Irenaeus who as Hamelmannus says might yet remember the Apostles own lively Preaching is condemn'd by the Centurists for his affirming That all the Churches ought to accord to the Roman Church in regard of a more powerful Principality for which words they charge him with a corrupt Saying concerning the Primacy of the Roman Church Cent. 2. Alph. Tab. word Irenaeus And this Authority of the B. of Rome D. Philip Nicolai referreth for its beginning to the Infirmity of the Apostles and of the first succeeding Bishops of Rome in Comment de Reg. Christ p. 221. With whom concurs Mr. Middleton in his Papist Mast p. 193. No marvail therefore says he tho' perusing Councils Fathers and Stories from the Apostles forward we find the Print of the Popes Feet For these and all other Points of Catholic Doctrine the
Alas the Protestant Church in the Time of Luther c. was but in her Nonage and what wonder is it if We standing upon their Shoulders see farther than They Repres Then we are like to have Old Protestancy I see and New Protestancy a Protestancy of Luther and a Protestancy of those that stand upon Luther's Shoulders And who knows but some other Doctors in the next Age may set their Feet upon your Shoulders and see as far beyond you as you think you do beyond Luther As far as I see The Reforming Humovr is not so much out of Fashion but all this is possible And tho' the Word of late be STAND FAST yet this cannot be very effectual when Those that give it never knew what 't was to Stand Fast themselves They that have no other Being but what they gain'd by a Violent Breaking loose and Separation Argue but weakly when they cry to their Followers to HOLD FAST When Doctrine and Example go together it moves powerfully but when the Example is a Confutation of the Doctrine it sinks not beyond the Ear and is no more to the purpose than for a Rebel to Preach up Loyalty and Obedience to his Followers Misrep Whither are you gone Why the Protestancy of the First Reformers and Our Protestancy is much at one only Luther and his Contemporaries were for Reforming the Primitive Fathers taking them for as rank Papists as those that we found in the Time of King Henry 8. And we take them for Good Sound Protestants and regulate our Belief and Doctrine according to what was then generally Taught by them and Practis'd Repres So that Those Fathers it seems whom Luther condemn'd as Superstitious Monkish and Accursed you follow as True-Protestants 'T is well Luther is gone before you if he were to come again he would as certainly throw you into the same List of Superstitious Monkish and Accursed as he did those Fathers whom you follow as Protestants but were rejected by him for Papists Misrep No such matter For tho' we believe as the Fathers believ'd yet we don't dissent in any material Point from Luther we accept of and own his Reformation and fear no Anathema from him tho' he were to have a Second Coming All the business is Luther Peter Martyr c. did not understand the Fathers They mistook their Meaning and thought them in their Writings to teach Popery and therefore declar'd them Accursed But Our Divines the Divines of these Days of clearer Light whose Discerning Faculties are more Pure and more Refin'd than those that went before them have now Examin'd the Works of the Fathers with a stricter Eye and find all that in the Fathers to be Stanch-Protestancy which Luther and his Followers mistook for Popery Repres How so Man What strange Discovery is this Misrep Nothing strange at all 'T is only by the Natural Art of Interpretation 'T is but the Application of three or four Significant Words to the Popish Expressions of the Fathers and forthwith they appear all in as true a Protestant Dress as if the Fathers of the XXXIX Articles had been the Authors Repres What this is some Controversial Legerdermain I le warrant you You 'l favour me with a sight of it who knows what Effect it may have upon me If it do's not make a Convert of me at least I shall undoubtedly admire the Art and Industry of the Operators Misrep You are upon your Rallery However produce you any of what you take for the most Popish Sayings of the Fathers even those very Sayings for which They were condemn'd by Luther for Papists and you shall soon see I le make good what I tell you I don 't like Empty Quacks promise more than I le perform Repres Let 's see then As to Invocation of Saints We quote St. Gregory Nyssen who thus directs himself to S. Theodore Martyr Orat. de S. Theod. Intercede and Pray for our Country to the Lord of the Vniverse Thou hast left this World yet thou knowest our Desires our Wants and the Necessities of Human Life Ask for Peace We quote likewise S. Gregory Nazianzen who thus Addresses himself to S. Cyprian Orat 18. in S. Cyprian Do you full of Compassion look upon us from Heaven direct our Words and Life and help me who have the Charge of this holy Flock The like we read in St. Chrysostom St. Ambrose St. Jerome St. Austin c. And for this very Reason are these Fathers reprov'd by former Protestants as infected with Popish Errors and spotted with Superstitious Doctrines Now how do you make this a Protestant Doctrine Misrep Why look you now with one Word I turn all this Popery into Protestantism These Sayings of the Fathers are not Prayers to the Saints but only so many Rhetorical Flights or Innocent Wishes and what 's become of all the Popery now But proceed have you any more Repres This is as good as the Powder of Pimperlimpimp a German Artist cou'd not make a more Expedite and Undiscernible Conversion But pray let 's have some more of this We quote for the Supremacy of the Bishop of Rome some Passages of the First General Councils in which he is stil'd Head and of some Ancient Fathers who acknowledge his Jurisdiction and obey his Orders tho' being Prelates not of the Western but of the Eastern and African Church Misrep These are nothing but Complements Repres Good agen We quote likewise upon the same Subject St. Irenaeus who lib. 3. c. 3. adv Haer. says that All Churches ought to accord to the Roman Church in regard of her more Powerful Principality And Others who call it the Head-Church adding that to its Bishop is given a Preeminence of Priesthood For which Sayings These Fathers are rejected by the Centurists Misrep Pish The Centurists understood them not These are only Expressions of Civil Respect and no acknowledgments of Authority Primacy or Jurisdiction They are nothing but Respectful Compellations and Words of Courtesie Repres We quote again upon this Subject The many Applications that were wont to be made by the Eastern and African Bishops to the Bishop of Rome wherein they acquainted him with the State of their Church-Affairs Gave an Account of their Faith Inform'd him of Heresies arising Requir'd his Assistance c. Misrep All this was only for the maintaining a Mutual and Brotherly Correspondence It means no more Repres We quote again in behalf of the Real Presence and Transubstantiation the Sayings of the Primitive Fathers affirming That as Christ chang'd Water into Wine at Cana of Galilee so at his Last Supper he chang'd Wine into his Blood. That the Flesh of Christ which we eat for our Salvation ought to be Ador'd and that we Sin in not Adoring it That the Words of Christ cannot deceive us or be untrue but our Sense is very often deceiv'd Since therefore He has said This is my Body let us be Convinc'd and Believe That He that Sanctifies and Changes the
Gifts is Christ himself 't is not done by Human Power the Priests hold but the Place of Ministers That they believ'd the Bread Sanctifi'd by the Word of God to be Chang'd into the Body of God by the Word Misrep The Fathers in all these Expressions speak only as Orators Figuratively or Morally but not as Divines and so all this advances nothing for Popery Repres Well hold I le say this for you This is the most artificial Knack of making the Ancient Fathers no Papists that could possibly be invented Luther and the rest of that Age were certainly Dull Souls so severely to Censure the Fathers for being infected with Popisâ— Errors whenas if they had understood the Efficacy of these Three or Four Words RHETORICALLY COMPLEMENTALLY CIVIL-RESPECTFULLY FIGURATIVELY and MORALLY and known the Right Vse of them they might have made the Primitive Fathers to have deliver'd as Good Protestant Doctrine as any Modern Divine has done since the Reformation Misrep You are in the right but such Discoveries as These are not the Product of one Age. This could not be expected from the First Reformers who had their Hands full and many Irons in the Fire 'T was enough for them to condemn all such Expressions and Writings whether of Primitive Fathers or Others that did any ways seem to disagree with the Reform'd Principles But our Modern Controvertists who have had more Leisure and Contrivance and look'd more â—arrowly into the Text have now made all that Sound Protestancy which by the First Reformers was taken for Rank Popery and all this by Interpreting and Declaring what is spoken by the Ancient Councils and Fathers by way of Complement of Civil Respect of Oratory of Figure or Moral Discourse Repres Really this is admirable But pray now tell me May not this Method of Interpreting sometime or other be likely to do Mischief and as you by this Art of Popery have made Protestancy may not some other by the same way of Christianity make Judaism Infidelity or Atheism and at last make every thing of any thing Misrep How so Repres As now if when We as Christians proving Christ to be the Son of God alledge Joh. 10. 30. I and my Father are One any Pretending Interpreter should come and say This is only a RHETORICAL FLIGHT When we quote Luke 1. 11. Thou art my beloved Son he should say This is a COMPLEMENT When we prove Obedience to Superiors by Heb. 13. 17. Obey them that have the Rule over you and Submit your selves he should say This is only for a MUTUAL CORRESPONDENCF or CIVIL RESPECT If to all the Duties of a Christian commanded in Holy Writ of Living Soberly not Bearing False Witness Being Subject for Conscience sake Loving our Neighbour Not making Divisions Honouring Parents Not Stealing c. he should thrust in those little Interpreting Words and make all this to be spoken Figuratively or by way of Complement would not this be a very fair way of turning Christianity out of doors and making the next Generation Infidels by the same Rule as you have made the Ancient Fathers to be Protestants Let any thing be deliver'd never so expresly either in Scripture or Fathers 't is but the Interpreting it by way of Figure Complement or Morally and it changes the whole Sense and makes any thing of any thing There would be no great difficulty by this Art of making the Bible speak the Language of the Alcoran And if this be your Way of making Protestants of the Primitive Fathers 't is but applying your Rule home and you may make the Trent-Fathers as much Protestants as They. Misrep Well I am bound to stand to 't that the Ancient Fathers were Protestants still But suppose They were not I could not tell how to turn Papist A Papist is such an Unreasonable and Absurd kind of Christian that a Man had as good be of no Religion at all aâ— be a Papist Repres It may be so indeed as you understand a Papist If a Papist were really what you seem to render him to the People I should as heartily detest him and his Religion as you and yours do and should not wonder to see you more concern'd at your Neighbour's turning Papist than when he becomes Jew or Atheist Misrep Let 's hear then what Your Papist is and I le tell you what Mine is But let 's have none of these Interruptions and quick Turns When I have said my Say do you take yours I le give you no disturbance I have some Eight or Ten Points to touch at and if you 'l let me have my Humour let 's return to our Old way of Papist Misrepresented and Represented Repres Well as you please but pray consider whether Silence will not be more agreeble to these Times of Peace Do you go Your Way and I 'll go Mine if you think fit Publish'd with Allowance Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel MDCLXXXVI Pap. not Misrep by Prot. p. 5. Answ to Pap. Prot. p. 17. Pref. Catec p. 49. Postscr Prov. 15. 29. Coloss 1. 10. See Nubes Testium which shews this at large S. Ambr. l. de Vid. Obsecrandi sunt Angeli Martyres obsecrandi Dr. St. Serm. at Whitehall pr. 3d. Pref. Idol of the Church of Rome Ed. 1 p. 3. 2 Pet. 3. 16.