common with you to al the solemnity of ceremonies that you vse now To trauell no further for the matter let vs but take a view of your rites and ceremonies in this case as they are set downe in your late Catechisme by the decree of the councell of Trent and Pius the fift Bishop of Rome writen and published for the instructioÌ„ of your parish Priests what and how to teach their people and we shall finde that these places doe not mention the one halfe of them by farre There first they are deuided in three rankes or sortes the first is of them that you by authority of that councell vnder paine of being anathematized must vse before the partie to be baptised come to the font the second is of such as be vsed in the baptizing of him and the third is of such as be vsed after Of the first stampe be these consecrating of the water with the oile of misticall vnction of Easter day and Whitsonday that shall serue for the whole yeare after as there shal be occasion to vse it the staying of the party without the Church dore vntill he either by himselfe or his Godfather for him promise the forsaking of the seruice of Sathan and his yeelding to enter into Gods seruice and family and being asked what he would haue answere be giuen that he would haue baptisme which being knowen theÌ„ it is saied further that he is to be instructed in the Cathecisme and is to answere it by himselfe or his godfather which done then in religious words and praiers exorcisme or adiuration to expell the deuil and to weaken and ouerthrow his power in him must be vsed a little salt must be put into his mouth the signe of the Crosse is to be made vpon his forehead eies brest shoulders and eares and lastly with the priests spettle his nostrels and eares must be anointed Now these things thus finished then he is admitted or brought to the font where next follow the rites of the second order which there are thus set downe then is he thrise asked whither he doe abreâ—ounce the deuill c. And thrise he or his godfather make answere abrenuÌ„tio I doe abrenouÌ„ce and then likewise he is asked whither he doe beleeue the twelue articles of the Christian faith whereunto answere is made credo I beleeue and lastly whither he will be baptized is demaunded wherunto answere being made volo I will he is baptized in the water in the font in the name of the father the sonne and holy Ghost either being dipt into the water or by hauing water poured or sprinkled vpon him according to the maner and fashion of the Church in that countrey where the party is baptized Where is also further shewed that it was the minde of that holy councel that at the most there should be but one godfather and one godmother thus to answere and vndertake for the baptized both because the order of discipline and instruction thorough a multitude of masters might be troubled and also because it was meet so to prouide least otherwise betwixt too many such spirituall affinities should grow as might hinder mariadge amongst men too much For as the writer of that booke further saieth most wisely by the Church it was decreed that there should grow such affinity not onely betwixt the baptized and baptizer but also betweene the baptized and the sureties and the baptized his true parents that thenceforth none of them might marry togither That also may not be forgotten that there also it is shewed that the naturall parentes of the party to bee baptized may not so promise answere for him that so that rather it weâ— appeare how farre this spirituall education differs froÌ„ the carnall Belike the authour of this Catechisme the councell Pope that set him a worke coÌ„maÌ„ded the publishing of his booke had quite forgotteÌ„ that S. Paul saieth to naturall pareÌ„ts yee fathers bring vp your childreÌ„ in instructioÌ„ informatioÌ„ of the Lord Ephes 6. ver 4. or else they were at a flat point they cared not whatsoeuer hee had taught Now your Ceremonies of the lust sort as he setteth theÌ„ out are these baptisme ministred finished the baptizeds crowne of the head is to be annointed with the holy chrisme a white garment or at least a white sudarioluÌ„ that is handkerchiefe or cloth to wipe away sweat withall is to be giuen him a burning waxe candle is to be put into his hand lastly his name must be giueÌ„ him Now I pray you what are the 5. things aforesaied mentioned in these places to such a nuÌ„ber as these And yet the Tridentine couÌ„cel whose mind this authour plainly set out thought al these so necessary can 13. de SacrameÌ„tis that it pronouÌ„ceth him accursed that shall coÌ„teÌ„ne omit or take vpoÌ„ him to alter any of these And the more is as it is euideÌ„t by your own doctors DuraÌ„d Dorbel Herolt others you obserue not these rites ceremonies with the opinioÌ„ that ecclesiasticall coÌ„stitutions of such matters ought only to be obserued wtal that is in hâ—lding stilfast the doctrine of ChristiaÌ„ liberty in your coÌ„scieÌ„ces obseruing theÌ„ for deceÌ„cy coÌ„lines edification wtout opinion of holines necessity merit therin for the better maintenaÌ„ce of order peace in the church but most grosly superstitiously idolatrously haue you taught meÌ„ to impute to a nuÌ„ber of them as naÌ„ely to your exorcism annointing crossing such force efficacy as that not only you haue made theÌ„ to encroch far vpoÌ„ the vse effect of baptism it self but also you haue do attribute so great so many spiritual graces effects to theÌ„ that litle or nothing is left as speciall to baptisme Nay who is so simple but that he seeth that these such other rites ceremonies amoÌ„gst you though it be neuer so euident that they be but of humane deuise inuentioÌ„ are more carefully vrged obserued theÌ„ that very order that expreslie it set downe in the scriptures theÌ„selues about concerning the administratioÌ„ of the sacrameÌ„ts if it were not thus you durst not so coÌ„trary to the doctrine order of S. Paul 1. cor 14. appoint vse rather as you do an vnknown tongue in the ministring of theÌ„ then a laÌ„guage that the people might vnderstaÌ„d be edified by so say ameÌ„ with vnderstaÌ„ding to your praiers thaÌ„ksgiuing Nether durst you thus to ad to the lords ordinaÌ„ces accurse theÌ„ that omit any of your additioÌ„s in the mean time take vpoÌ„ you quite coÌ„trary to the words of Christ drink ye al of this to bereaue the coÌ„moÌ„ people of the cup to the sacrameÌ„t of Christs body bloud wtall by your new found tearme and doctrine of concomitance peruerting quite the vse end of the sacrament in making it a sacrament of the life glory of Christ whereas by his ordinance it is a sacrament of his death and abasement for
reason is there to the contrary but that according to the rules of decency the preface and the booke whereunto it is a preface shall be conformable one to the other And yet though this be the very methode and matter good Reader of all this his long tedious preface which I thus brieflie haue laide open before thee the poore silly man the authour thereof seemeth to haue conceiued such a liking of his owne doings therein especially towards the latter ende thereof that gloriously and triumphantly hee breaketh out into wonderful complaints amplifications and exclamations against vs. Alas poore man that hee was thought hee to meete with no reader but that would graunt him all these thinges at the first asking Or thought hee that hee had so cunningly and artificially knit those things together that no man could espy the childish losenes of them From his first generall farre set and yet vnnecessary discourse of the duety of all officers hee so suddenly falleth into the next of the properties of Christes sheepe that it was great maruaile that the man â—ooke no great harme by it But hauing recouered himselfe 〈◊〉 litie speaking belike before his wittes were well come to him â—ee neuer can hit after of any thing to the purpose For not onely all his matter and woordes besides a fewe naked assertions of his of the trueth of certaine points of his religion and falshoode of ours skipping in heere and there â—here is nothing but the circumstances of application altered one of vs might far more aptly and truely haue written against them But as those things sufficiently conuince the man and his preface of grosse folly and vanitie so if we consider but howe he hath wilfully sought to abuse his reader in cyting the ancient father Irenaeus and others to persuade his reader by his authoritie to obey their prelates and traditions we shall as plainely finde in the man palpable impiety For page second he cyteth his fourth booke and forty three chapter to proue vnto vs nowe that wee must obey their Church now speaking vnto vs by their prelates because then Irenaeus tolde the heretiques a thousand and foure hundred yeares agoe and more whom indeede the pastours of the Church that then was continued soundly in the purity of the Apostolique doctrine that they were to obey the pastours of the Church that had succession from the Apostles Which any maÌ„ may see bindeth not nor teacheth vs to do the like to theirs vnlesse they could proue theirs to be such as there Irenaeus speaketh of Likewise whatsoeuer else in this preface of his to like purpose he hath alleadged out of Irenaeus Augustine Chrysostome CypriaÌ„ Hierome or the scriptures theÌ„selues is abused for that which they spake of that pure true Church of Christ and her faithfull ministers that he would drawe his reader to think to be spoken euen of the Church of Rome as it is now and hath beene of late yeares and of her prelates which are in nothing almost like either the Church or ministers that they speake of But this is not all his fault in alleadging this testimonie of Irenaeus thus to confounde the prelates and Church with the true pastours of Christ and his pure Church a thousande fower hundreth yeares agoe whereunto theirs are no more like then darkenesse is to light but that also wilfully the easilier belike to beguyle the simple reader hee concealeth that that immemediatly followeth the former words Which is this Quisâ—câ—â— ostendimus cum episcopatus successione charisma veritatis certum secuÌ„dum placitum patris acceperunt that is which as we haue shewed with the succession of their Bishoppricke according to the will and pleasure of God haue receaued the certaine gifte of trueth and so hee hauing skipt ouer those wordes which hee thought as it should seeme in his conscience would and might be denied not to fit their prelats he goeth on with that that followed these wordes saying Reliquos vero qui absistunt à principal successione quocunquè loco colliguntur suspectos habere tanquam haereticos oportet which is in English but the rest which goe from the principall succession in what place soeuer they be gathered together wee ought to suspect as heretiques Wherein euidently it appeareth he left out the former words staÌ„ding in the author in the midst betwixt the former part of the sentence and the latter here alleadged by him to make the reader beleeue that Irenaeus minde was to teach men simply to obey such prelates without exception as haue ordinarie outward and locall succession downe from the Apostles and that that kinde of succession in place and office is the principall succession that he speaketh of which who so hath not ought by and by to bee suspected of heresy But indeede take al his words together and marke them especially those which craftily he had gelded the sentence of in his quoting of them and it is most cleare that Irenaeus here teacheth obedience onely to such Bishops as succeede the Apostles in the certaine gift of trueth that by principall succession he ment nothing else but succession to the Apostles in that gift of trueth and that therefore he would haue vs to suspect all those to be heretiques that lack succession vnto them in that howsoeuer and wheresoeuer they succeede them else Which is the very cause why according to this rule we think no better of their popish bishops priests then we do what successioÌ„ soeuer otherwise they bragge of for that sure we are that long ago they are gone from this principal succession in trueth This he knew euery one would perceiue if he had faithfully cyted Irenaeus wordes as they lye and therefore hee thought best to shew how he could followe the example of that olde fox Sathan who for his purpose in like maÌ„ner mangled the 91. Psalme Math. 4. It seemeth also that these words quocunque loco colliguÌ„tur in what place soeuer they be gathered together though he recite them in latine he would faine haue smothered for traÌ„slating the rest he omits these doubtles because without any exceptioÌ„ yea euen of Rome it selfe thereby Irenaeus would teach that they ought to be suspected to be heretiques that will not obey those pastours that succeed the Apostles in the gift of truth Which indeede the Bishops of Rome hauing had so little care to doe this great while if this rule of Irenaeus may bee followed they cannot possibly escape this suspition The credit therefore of theÌ„ waying more with the writer of this preface then his owne he thought it was better thus to leese his owne by thus shamefully abusing his reader in prouing this testimony after the popish manner then once to hazard the credit of his holy fathers the popes by right faithfull and honest dealing therewith Howbeit this kinde of dealing of his may giue iust occasion to all that are wise euer hereafter to looke better to the fingers of all such fellowes then vpon their bare
but indeed truth they haue neither al nor any of these in that sort to speake for theÌ„ as he would make his Reader beleeue For first there is plaine contrariety betwixt their doctrine the doctrine of the auncient holy fathers in a number of most weighty points as I haue shewed at large ca. 17. 29. likewise in that both ther also c. 39. 40. in that I shew that they hold many things directly contrary to the ancient generall councels I plentifully proue that they are destitute of the commoÌ„ consent of ChristiaÌ„ regions And as for the last though it were graÌ„nted theÌ„ that they may truly preteÌ„d long continuaÌ„ce of time yet seing it is true that Tertullian de velandis virginibus hath said Quodcunque aduersus veritateÌ„ sapit heraesis est etiaÌ„ vetus coÌ„suetudo that is whatsoeuer sauoreth against the truth is heresy though it be an old custome seing also it is certaine that Cyprian ad PompeiuÌ„ saith custome must not let truth to preuaile for custoÌ„e without truth is but oldnes of error that could do theÌ„ litle good we being alwaies able as webe to proue by the scriptures souÌ„dly interpreted by al souÌ„d antiquity that they are gone loÌ„g agoe froÌ„ the trueth But in deed though popery be too ancieÌ„t so hath had soÌ„e coÌ„tinuaÌ„ce of time yet it is but a yongling in respect of that which they pretend And this I haue also proued cap. 17. in suÌ„dry other places of my answere following Yea that more is which will goe nearer then I haue proued that indeed we for our Religion Church haue not only prescription of some longtime but also of all times ages eueÌ„ froÌ„ the beginning c. 4.9 17. And yet this point of antiquity prescriptioÌ„ of time is a thing that they so coÌ„fideÌ„tly staÌ„d vpoÌ„ that in the offer annexed to Iohn de Albines book that proud chaleÌ„ger offreth to recaÌ„t if we caÌ„ shew where wheÌ„ in what yeare of the lord vnder what Emperor by whoÌ„ popery caÌ„e in by whoÌ„ of our side it was gain said which though I haue I hope sufficieÌ„tly shewed in the chapters last before quoted yet because the answe riÌ„gfully to this point the remouig of this obiectioÌ„ wil both bluÌ„t the edge of this his brag greatly crack the credit of popery I wil voutsafe soÌ„ewhat more here to set down to the coÌ„futatioÌ„ of it Hereunto therefore whereas the foresaid offerer and others of that side so stand vpon the antiquity of their Church and Religion that they would seeme we must needes grant that they are even as auncient as they pretend vnles we can shew when where by whoÌ„ a sodaine change froÌ„ our ReligioÌ„ to theirs was made that some of our side theÌ„ preseÌ„tly espied it withstood it vnreasonable it is that they demaunde For popery being not one or two particular heresies nor such a masse or heape of heresies whose property is to burst in all at once of the sodaine shewing it selfe with open and bare face at the first but as it is tearmed 2. Thess 2. a mistery of iniquity and therefore a false ReligioÌ„ creeping in cuÌ„ningly by litle litle as it were by stealing steps that hiddeÌ„ asmuch as might bee vnder the shew colour of holines through hypocrisy 1. Tim. 4. Reu. 13. v. 11. no maruaile though it were not only verie hard but euen impossible in euery respect to satisfie this demaunde And yet for al this were popery neuer a whit the more to be liked For as we see by experience that ostentimes there is far more daunger in those diseases that steale vppon a man by little and little and therefore are not resisted at the first then in those that are apparant and violent when they begin and therefore then are they more carefully withstoode and looked vnto euen so oftentimes also it falles out in errours and heresies that they of al other in the end proue the most dangerous whose beginnings haue beene most close and secret and whose growing to their perfection hath not been of the sodaine but in long tract of time Indeede those diseases that come vpon the sodaine and are violent in their fulnes at the first men at the first may espy and complaine of but so it is not not cannot be alwaies in the other We see also that though it be an easy matter to name the father of a lawfully begotten childe yet no man commonly can tell who is the father of the base sonne of a common woman But to make it yet more cleare that popery may be naught as it is yet this his demaunde be vnreasonable we are to cal to mind that Christ our sauiour who knew best how such most dangerous cankers and diseases would grow and come vp in his church hath taught vs Matth. 13. that it will not alwaies be knowen espied no not of his owne housholde seruants when and by whom first the tares are sowen in his field where he had before onely sowed good seede And there he showes vs that notwithstanding that it shall be sufficient to proue them tares in that afterwards wheÌ„ they are come vp they differ as they doe from the good seed Though therefore it were so that we could not tel when by whoÌ„ popery was first soweÌ„ in Gods field yet in that now it being growen vp therein as it is it being compared with gods good seede taken out of the garner or barne of his holy written word it differeth from it as it doth that ought to be sufficient proofe vnto vs that it is but tares of the deuils sowing by his deuilish seedsimeÌ„ whensoeuer they did it Doubtles the creeping of it in not all at once but by little and litle that with such soft sly paces the shew of holines deuotion that it hath stolen in vnder the trouble that the holy ancient fathers had in their times otherwise in confuting grosse heresies that shewed themselues such at the first and the small suspition if they had marked the beginnings hereof that were in their times that they could haue had that euer they would haue â—rowen to this that they are now haue beene so many great and â—peciall causes why the first beginnings thereof haue beene no more noted resisted then they haue beene Againe this I must â—eeds further say that it may yet very wel be that the beginning proceeding also thereof haue beene both better obserued withstood by the ancieÌ„t fathers in the primatiue church theÌ„ appeareth now vnto vs in their bookes monuments for in these parts of the world in these last 4 or 500 yeares they so raigning â—yraÌ„nizing as they did they hauing their books in their keeping â—heir care and diligence being as it was by al meanes possible to maintaine their own credit very likely is it that as they met with any thing to
speaking of Gregory the seuenth commonly called Hildebrand and his proceedings against the Emperour Henry not only to excommunicate him but also to depose him â—ith Lego relego Romanorum regum Imperatorum gesta c. â—read and read againe the acts of the Romane kings and Emperours and yet before this I finde none of them of the Romane â—ishop excommunicated or depriued of his kingdome But 〈◊〉 we read Sigebert Abbas Vrspergensis H. Mutius and others vve shall finde that the same Bishop for this his Antichristiâ—n pride and other faultes that hee had vvas not onely wonderfully vvithstoode and oppugned by that Emperour but â—y councels also then held at Brixia Mentz and Wormes â—harpely rebuked condemned and desposed And though hee hauing thus begunne to encroch vpon the Emperour many of his successours follovved him in his very steps yet we read also in Cronicles that Henrie the fifte Fredericke the first and Fredericke the second Emperours Philip the faire and Carolus Caluus of Fraunce Henry the first and second Richard the second and king Iohn of England with sundry other Emperours and kings did notably and openly resist them therein and that they had alvvaies many learned fathers and Bishops to take their partes But to leaue this matter and to go on to others because the author of this preface and brag that I novv am in aunswering in his brag maketh speciall mention as you haue heard of their order of ceremonies and manner of praying and fasting bosting that for these they haue the holy fathers the consent of all christian nations and prescription of long continuance yea for the tvvo last the very scriptures let vs first see if wee can finde out the originall and vvithall the iust reproofe and condemnation of these First for their ceremonies none that hath but redde Platina or any other story of the liues of their popes but he hath red when how and by whom they were deuised for there is few of them for many hundred yeares together that thought as it should seeme by the vvriters of their liues that they had worthily sate in that place vnles they had deuised some newe rite and ceremony more then was before But if one goe no further then to Polidor de inventoribus rerum there shall hee finde when and by whom they had their originall whereby also it shal appeare that for many of theÌ„ they are of so late devising they cannot pretend either the testimony of ancient fathers or prescriptioÌ„ of any long time for very few of them whatsoeuer he bragges can they truly alleadge consent of all Christian regions for as they haue most of them beene deuised here in these parts of the worlde by bishops of Rome so few of them in comparison haue beene 〈◊〉 yet be receaued in the other parts of Christianity that were vnder the other Patriarches of ConstaÌ„tinople Alexandria Antioch yea euen here in these parts all their rites ceremonies were neuer yet vniuersally receaued of euery cuntry alike no nor yet of euery part of any one cuntry But they being in number so many in nature a number of them so childish and foolish yet hauing beene vrged as they haue to be vsed with such opinion and holines S. Pauls reprehension of those that were in his time so busy with the Colossians in vrging theÌ„ to keepe their ordinances the keeping whereof lay in touch not tast not handle not Coloss 2. is both a bewraying when such like ceremonies as these that he brags of first began and also a iust and a full condemnation of them Read also S. Augustines 119 epistle ad Ianuarium and you shall finde there how earnestly he hath enueied against the multiplying and bringing in so vrging of such vnnecessary rites and ceremonies shewing how few the simplicity of the gospel is contented withal And yet as it is wel known he liued 1000 years ago and that since his time there are 1000. newrites ceremonies deuised in the Romish church that he neuer had heard of yet theÌ„ he complained that there were so many and they so seruilely were vrged that the Iewes state was in that respect far more tolerable what would he haue said then if he had liued in these daies and had seene the curious infinite and foolish rites and ceremonies but of one popish priest formally doing his masse Indeed fasting is a thing and so is prayer that hath countenance of scriptures fathers Christian regions and of all ages and times but so hath not either the popish fasting or praying For their fasting is tyed superstitiously to set daies and also lyeth especially in abstinence from one meat rather then from an other their end therein being not onely to chastise the body that it may be brought the more readily feruently to obey the holy direction of the spirit as the word of God teacheth onely it should but euen thereby to satisfie either for some sin past or to earne or deserue somewhat at the hands of God Such fasting as this was that of the hypocritical pharisies wherof Christ warm â—s disciples Mat. 6.16 the first fathers teachers hereof are â—hose spirits of errour that S. Paul speakes of 1. Tim. 4. and so you â—ay there see both who first in the church of Christ found out â—ractised your kind of fasting who by by spied it condeÌ„â—ed it for hypocritical the doctrine of deuils But if you would â—aue vs to search further we tel you that after Christ his Apoâ—tles times Eusebius reports in his 5 booke 16 chapter out of Aâ—olonius that Montanus the heretique prescribed lawes of fasting he is the first that we read of that tyed fasting by law to preâ—cript daies times which is there reckoned vp by that Apolonius â—s one of his heretical deuises This Montanus was about they eare of the Lord 145. And it appears in Augustines 2. booke 13. cha of the manners of the church of the Manichees that it was the fashioÌ„ theÌ„ of those heretiques to thinke vpon their fasting daies that they fasted excelleÌ„tly though otherwise they had neuer so daintyâ—e so they abstained from flesh wine for the which Augustine doth deride theÌ„ And coÌ„sequently herein Apolonius Augustine haue shewed their dislike of that popish fasting If yet â—t should be replied as it is by some of their side that their fasting is not altogither like the condemned abstinence of these ancient heretiques others for that they abstained froÌ„ flesh vpon an opinion that flesh was an impurer creature then fish how will they theÌ„ excuse Durand li. 6. ca. de ieiunijs who giueth this as a reason of their abstinence vpon fasting daies rather from flesh then from fish because al flesh was accursed in the daies of Noe not all fish Now touching their maÌ„ner of praying for al his brag neither fathers consent of all Christian regions prescription of any long continuaÌ„ce of time
Fredericke the second Emperours Philip the faire and Carolus Caluus of Fraunce Henry the first and second Richard the second and king Iohn of England with sundry other Emperours and kings did notably and openly resist them therein and that they had alvvaies many learned fathers and Bishops to take their partes But to leaue this matter and to go on to others because the author of this preface and brag that I novv am in aunswering in his brag maketh speciall mention as you haue heard of their order of ceremonies and manner of praying and fasting bosting that for these they haue the holy fathers the consent of all christian nations and prescription of long continuance yea for the tvvo last the very scriptures let vs first see if wee can finde out the originall and vvithall the iust reproofe and condemnation of these First for their ceremonies none that hath but redde Platina or any other story of the liues of their popes but he hath red when how and by whom they were deuised for there is few of them for many hundred yeares together that thought as it should seeme by the vvriters of their liues that they had worthily sate in that place vnles they had deuised some newe rite and ceremony more then was before But if one goe no further then to Polidor de inventoribus rerum there shall hee finde when and by whom they had their originall whereby also it shal appeare that for many of thē they are of so late devising they cannot pretend either the testimony of ancient fathers or prescriptiō of any long time for very few of them whatsoeuer he bragges can they truly alleadge consent of all Christian regions for as they haue most of them beene deuised here in these parts of the worlde by bishops of Rome so few of them in comparison haue beene or yet be receaued in the other parts of Christianity that were vnder the other Patriarches of Constātinople Alexandria Antioch yea euen here in these parts all their rites ceremonies were neuer yet vniuersally receaued of euery cuntry alike no nor yet of euery part of any one cuntry But they being in number so many in nature a number of them so childish and foolish yet hauing beene vrged as they haue to be vsed with such opinion and holines S. Pauls reprehension of those that were in his time so busy with the Colossians in vrging thē to keepe their ordinances the keeping whereof lay in touch not tast not handle not Coloss 2. is both a bewraying when such like ceremonies as these that he brags of first began and also a iust and a full condemnation of them Read also S. Augustines 119 epistle ad Ianuarium and you shall finde there how earnestly he hath enueied against the multiplying and bringing in so vrging of such vnnecessary rites and ceremonies shewing how few the simplicity of the gospel is contented withal And yet as it is wel known he liued 1000 years ago and that since his time there are 1000. new rites ceremonies deuised in the Romish church that he neuer had heard of yet thē he complained that there were so many and they so seruilely were vrged that the Iewes state was in that respect far more tolerable what would he haue said then if he had liued in these daies and had seene the curious infinite and foolish rites and ceremonies but of one popish priest formally doing his masse Indeed fasting is a thing and so is prayer that hath countenance of scriptures fathers Christian regions and of all ages and times but so hath not either the popish fasting or praying For their fasting is tyed superstitiously to set daies and also lyeth especially in abstinence from one meat rather then from an other their end therein being not onely to chastise the body that it may be brought the more readily feruently to obey the holy direction of the spirit as the word of God teacheth onely it should but euen thereby to satisfie either for some sin past or to earne or deserue somewhat at the hands of God Such fasting as this was that of the hypocritical pharisies wherof Christ warn◠his disciples Mat. 6.16 the first fathers teachers hereof are those spirits of errour that S. Paul speakes of 1. Tim. 4. and so you may there see both who first in the church of Christ found out practised your kind of fasting who by by spied it condēned it for hypocritical the doctrine of deuils But if you would haue vs to search further we tel you that after Christ his Apostles times Eusebius reports in his 5 booke 16 chapter out of Apolonius that Montanus the heretique prescribed lawes of fasting he is the first that we read of that tyed fasting by law to prescript daies times which is there reckoned vp by that Apolonius as one of his heretical deuises This Montanus was about the yeare of the Lord 145. And it appears in Augustines 2. booke 13. cha of the manners of the church of the Manichees that it was the fashiō thē of those heretiques to thinke vpon their fasting daies that they fasted excellētly though otherwise they had neuer so daintyre so they abstained from flesh wine for the which Augustine doth deride thē And cōsequently herein Apolonius Augustine haue shewed their dislike of that popish fasting If yet it should be replied as it is by some of their side that their fasting is not altogither like the condemned abstinence of these ancient heretiques others for that they abstained frō flesh vpon an opinion that flesh was an impurer creature then fish how will they thē excuse Durand li. 6. ca. de ieiunijs who giueth this as a reason of their abstinence vpon fasting daies rather from flesh then from fish because al flesh was accursed in the daies of Noe not all fish Now touching their māner of praying for al his brag neither fathers consent of all Christian regions prescription of any long continuāce of time nor scriptures giue it any credit or coūtenāce at al. For first whereas now they pray al in Latine a toūg not vnderstood of most that heare vse their prayers it is a kinde of praying flatly condemned because it is without edification to such by Chrysostome Ambrose vpō the 14. of the first to the Corinthians Augustine also de Genesi ad literā li. 12. Cap. 8. ioines with them herein aduouching that no mā is edified by hearing that which he vnderstands not And the descriptions of al the auncient lyturgies in the Church shew that alwaies they were vsed in such a tongue as the people vnderstood aswell as the minister there is such mentiō of intercourse of speech one to the other as any man may see that perused the descriptions thereof yea writers both old new do plainely testify that the ancient long cōtinued vse of the church hath bene to haue
1048. that is from Iohn the eighth to Leo the 9.50 Popes all in a rowe successiuely entred not by the dore but by the posterne gate whom he calleth Apostaticall monsters and in whom hee graunts that lawfull Apostolicke succession was disordered And he that reades Luitprand lib. 3. cap. 12. 13. shall finde testified by him that the two famous harlottes Theodora the mother Marozia the daughter were in their times the makers and marrers and in effect the only setters vp and dispatchers againe of Popes at their pleasures Whereupon it came to â—asse as it there appeares that Pope Christopher hauing shooâ—ed out his predecessour Leo by the ayde of his concubines he â—as quickly shouldred out againe by one Sergius who got the â—lace from him as partly by much brawling and fighting â—o especially by the helpe and support of his paramour Marozia Againe as he shewes hence was it that Pope Laudo Iohn the â—leuenths father by adultery was by the meanes of Theodora his sonnes paramour deposed that so shee might bring him nearer her from Rauenna to Rome whom againe her daughter Marozia hauing found the meanes to smoother she without consent either of people or cleargy set vp in his roome a bastard of hirs which she had by Pope Sergius And though he were shortly after thrust out again yet by the helpe of his olde frende Marozia the matter was so handled that both Leo the sixth and Stephen the seuenth his successours by poison were quickely rid out of the way and so hee called Iohn the twelth recouered his place againe Likewise her sonne Albericus sonne Iohn the thirteenth as he caÌ„e of a filthy generation so being a most filthy maÌ„ himselfe he had his preferment to that place by the like meanes And in like sort we read that VrbaÌ„ the secoÌ„d caÌ„e to that roome by the meanes of his louer Mathilda Also craft and subtlety in supplanting and cosening their predecessours hath aduaÌ„ced many to the Papacy For Vigilius got it by crafty accusing of Syluerius so procuring his deposition to make way for himselfe thereunto By the same dore of craft and cosenage entred Stephen the second Martin the second Boniface the eight and many others And when these haue beene the ordinary waies whereby such a rabble of these your most holy fathers and highest Prelates haue come to their estates is there any likelihoode to the coÌ„trary but that their inferiours of all sorts in their times learned of them to enter in like maner For what reason is there that a man should not be resolued that downe from the head so corrupted ran corruption ouer all the body euen down to the lowest Hedge-priest And in very deed euer since these haue beene the ordinary waies whereby these your head Prelates haue compassed their places all stories to the euerlasting shaÌ„e of your Synagog do most vsually notoriously shew how that there was nothing more ordinarie then for the next great Prelates vnder them as Cardinalles Bishoppes and Archbishoppes to come to those their dignities by the like meanes or by worse as namely for fauour borne them for the sinne not to be named for that they were the Popes bastards or for some other such like 〈◊〉 honest cause For Innocent the eighth Pope of that name was first made Prelate of SauoÌ„ then of Melphit then Secretary to Pope Sixtus and Cardinall of Cicilia for his rare beauty not for any other good quality in him and Iulius the third of very late daies promoted none sooner then youÌ„g waÌ„ton Ganymedes especially one of that sort a very lad called InnoceÌ„tius to be Cardinal whom he had long filthily fansied then still did And to bee a Popes Bastarâ— either in the first or second degree hath of long time beene a reaâ— way to such preferments And therefore we read that Iohn the eleuenth Pope Laudoes Bastard by the helpe of Theodora his paramour not onely as I haue saied in the end became Pope but before easily got first to be made Bishop of Bononia and then Archbishop of Rauenna Caesareus a bastarde of Alexander the sixt for this was by him made Cardinall Paul the third stretched his fauour so fâ—â— in this regard that hee made one Alexander sonne to his bastarde sonne Petrus Aloysius and one Ascanius sonne to his bastarde daughter CoÌ„staÌ„tia Cardinals And the writers of his life doe him wrong vnles he himselfe before he was Pope obteyned the Cardinals hat to be Bishop of Hostia by deliuering his sister Iulia Farnesia to be concubine to Alexander the sixt Sure I am that our Cronicles are much troubled and a very great part therof consists in displaying the brawles contentioÌ„s and dangerous consequents that haue arisen sometime to the shaking both of our Kings estate and kingdomes also about the election here of the Archbishops of Canterbury Yea in them it appeares that few elections either of them or of any other great bishops of this lande in these latter daies of the iollity and ruffe of the Roman Prelates and their Romish Antichristian Hierarchy and religion haue past here in England of late yeares whiles your kingdoÌ„e stoode but thereabout either there hath bene notorious brawles and coÌ„tentions amoÌ„gst the electours or els some other famous disorder and corruption and likewise we may be sure it fel out in other places and countries And as for your ordinary Priests for the most part al the world is witnes so doltish and ignorant they haue beene that there was no ordinary way for them to enter but that Balaam was the Bishop Iudas the patrone they were affectioned as SimoÌ„ Magus In Boniface the ninthes time he had an Antipope called Benedict but howsoeuer otherwise â—hey raged and raued one against another in this they both agreed â—o make open sale and marchandize of all Church liuinges the â—â—le began the fifth of NoueÌ„ber in the fifth year of Bonifaces reigne â—â—e that would giue most spedde best yea his couetousnesse was so â—otorious herein as that Theodoricus writing his life confesseth â—ot onely thus much but further that he had seene one benefice sold â—o many men in one weeke yea the former sale reuoked though vnâ—er seale and the benefice solde to another that offred more the first â—eing well chidden for going about to cosen the holy father for seeâ—ing to get the benefice at an vnderualew by meanes whereof as â—ee writeth for that this Pope was before a sturdie yonker but of â—0 yeares of age when he was chosen Pope and one so ignoraunt â—hat he could neither write sing nor vnderstand so much latin as to â—nderstand the ordinary pleading of aduocates dolts alwaies at his â—ands sped best And yet this fellow was Pope aboue 200. yeares â—go whereby though it appeare that to enter by this dore of Simoâ—y be a very ancient ordinary way for Popish Priests and inferiour Prelates to enter into their dignities by yet this is not the ancienâ—est president
before vs agreeing in vnitie of faith as I haue already said For neither the naughtines of h There is no such there mentioned this is your common hap in your quotations It seemes you would haue said 2. Kings 16. Achas Num. 1. nor of Ioram nor of diuerse other great sinners which are inrolled in the booke of the generation of Iesus Christ were not able to withstand the fulfilling of the promise of God made to Abraham that is to saie that he would be borne of this line Euen so the ill liues and conuersation of diuerse wicked Popes that haue followed after Saint Peter haue neuer beene a This is true and yet you neuer the nearer For though al Papists faile in faith yet his church neuer faileth able to moue Christ to breake his promise that is to saie that the faith of his Church should neuer faile Math. 16. and that the gates of hell that is to saie of infidelity which are the portes of damnation should neuer preuaile against it b I see not how that chapter or any thing therein serueth to this purpose any whit at all Esay 58. Our aduersaries therefore that take such great paines to set forth in golden legends the liues of the wicked Popes that haue beene since Saint Peters time thinking thereby to ouerthrowe the succession of the Catholicke ecclesiasticall faith c Your comparison is odiou◠neither doe wee lay open their wicked liues to that ende you speake of but to shew that your glory is your shame doe no lesse offend God then if they should go about to proue the promise of God made to the Patriarches to bee vaine because of the evill liues of their successours Therefore those that doe reproche vnto vs now that the Popes of our daies are not altogither so holie as S. Peter wee doe confesse it But they cannot deny or they will confesse vnto vs that the aboue named euil Kings Achaz Ioram Manasses Amon Iechonias and others did leade no such holy liues as Abraham Isaac Iacob or Dauid yet notwithstanding those euil Kings haue beene set forth in the generation of our Sauiour as the fathers of the iust Iesus Christ Let them iudge then that haue any witte whether this bee a great folly or no to see how these crafty coggers of the scriptures should make many simple persons refuse to be the Popes spirituall children because they were sinners seeking thereby to ouerthrow all the ancient customes of the Church The VII Chapter WHither onely your succession doeth suffice to ouerthrow all our Religion or any part of it though you here confidently say it is and suppose that to be the cause why we reiect it I refer to the iudgement of the reader by that which hitherto hath beene saied by you and confuted by me concerning the same Whereby also I doubt not but euery indifferent reader may perceiue that we haue and doe still yeelde other causes of our reiection of it and not this at all Whereas you call our Religion here heresie that you haue learned of the corrupt Orator Tertullus Act. 24. But as he tearmeth poore Paul there a captaine of the Sect or heresie of the Nazarites and the high Priest and elders saied it was euen so yet hee was not ashamed of the Gospell of Christ which they so tearmed but stoutly saied before Felix to their faces that according to that way which they counted heresie he worshipped the God of his fathers beleeuing all that was writē in the law the Prophets so though you giue vs neuer so many nicknames and tearme our Religion neuer so oft new and an heresie and haue your high Priest of Rome and your elders to bear you out in so doing we neuer a whit the more mislike of our Religion as long as wee are able in trueth to say with Saint Paul which our consciences witnesse comfortably we may that therein we doe but beleeue that which is taught vs in the canonicall Scriptures Indeede not Caluin only but euery one of vs when we haue to doe with you in this question of your succession we tell you your reason drawen frō your succession is of no force seeing the Greekes whom you account heretiques may vse that argument as well as you But to preuent this our obiection against your argument of succession you say They haue not succession and continuance of doctrine the which ought euer to be ioyned to the continuāce of pastors to shew the true recognisance of the Catholique Religion We are glad to see heare that euidence force of trueth hath wrong frō you this kinde of honest true replie to our obiection yet we thanke you not for it at all For ful gladly if our obiections had not driuen you to it perforce would you haue run on which bare succession of Bishops pastours without any mention of this Well howsoeuer you haue beene drawen to confesse thus much thereupon it doeth most euidently followe that if there be as little continuance lesse too in the Apostolicke faith and doctrine in your succession as there is amongst the Greekes then by your owne confession your succession is as weake a recognisance of the Catholique Religion as theirs And therefore the case thus standing you had neede to haue bestowed lesse paines to proue your personall succession and more to haue proued this succession and continuance of the true Catholicke doctrine for the other wtout this you see is nothing What a preposterous course is this then that you haue takē to take such leasure to bestow pains on that which when you haue gotten is nothing to find no leasure to bestow any paines on this which if you could haue proued your aduersaries would haue stoode with you no longer Enter yet into this controuersie when you will I dare vndertake if you will be tried in this case by the canonicall scriptures which as I haue shewed you must of necessity it shall easily be proued that notwithstanding all you can say against the Greekes your popish Religion consisteth of more heresies and is a greater Apostasie from the ancient Catholique Apostolique faith then theirs The greatest thing you charge thē withall is their denying of the proceeding of the holy ghost from the Father the Sonne which indeede if they denied in that sence that is obiected against them by you doubtles therin they were heretiques But it should seeme that they refuse only that word as not vnderstood of thē added as they say without the consent of the whole church to the creede of feare onely least by admitting the word they should thereby be enforced to cōfesse that he came not of one beginning but of two beginnings in the meane time vsing other words expressing in effect the same thing And if it be thus as in the last session of the Florētine councell it should seeme to be els where thē in that respect their cause is not so ill as
scriptures and all the ancient creedes grounded vpon the same togither with the very forme of our baptisme allowe vs onely to beleeue in God the father God the sonne and God the holy ghost vnanswerably thereupon it must needes followe that it is grosse idolatrie to pray vnto any other And so much in plaine tearmes hath Sedulius aboue one thousand yeares ago most flatly set downe vpon the first of the Romans saying Adorare alium praeter patrem filium spiritum sanctum impietatis crimen est that is to adore any beside the father the sonne the holy ghost is an vngodly wickednes Cyril also ad reginas de rectâ fide c. sendeth them that would obtaine their prayers to God the father in the name onely of Iesus Christ because solus naturâ verè est Deus he onely is by nature and in trueth God contra Iulianum lib. 6. he flatly saieth the holy martyrs neither doe we say to be Gods neue adorare consueuimus neither doe we vse to worship thē Yea Remigius who liued well nigh 900. yeares after Christ sheweth vpon the 96. Psalme that not onely images are not to be adored but he saieth plainely no nor an Angell is to be adored because of that warning of the Angell to the contrary in the Apocalips To conclude euen Hierom himselfe your owne fourth and last man whom I haue therefore kept to the last because many of you thinke that hee is much of your side against Vigilantius writing against the saied Vigilantius to one Ripacius cleareth himselfe to be farre frō this folly and blasphemy that you would make him an earnest procter for For there hee hath to shew his iudgement in this case writen thus non colimus adoramus we worshippe not and adore I say not the reliques of martyrs but neither sun moone Angels Archangels Cherubin Seraphin nor any name that is named either in this world or that which is to come beside the trinity for so he must be vnderstoode For immediately he addeth this reason least wee should serue the creature aboue the creatour who is blessed for euer We honour saieth he the relicks of the saints that we may adore him whose martyrs they be And good reason had all these fathers thus flatly to set downe their mindes against you For you know it is writen Dominum Deum tuum adorabis illi soli seruies that is thou shalt adore the Lorde thy God and him onely shalt thou serue Deut. 6. Matth. 4. and with this text Christ put the Deuill to silence when he would haue perswaded him to fall downe and worshippe him hee had nothing to replie against it I praie GOD you bee not growen in this point more obstinate and peeuish to withstand the doctrine of this text and more cunning and subtle to cauill against it for your owne defence then hee was I know some of you finding the Scriptures and fathers thus directlie to condemne adoration of the Saints though they maintaine still all your practise of praying vnto them yet haue not beene ashamed to write as it appeares in the censure of Colen printed there one thousand fiue hundreth sixty that amongst you it was neuer so much as heard that the Saints are to be adored for adoration is due onely to God Whereas they could not bee ignorant that their legends rosaries and other their bookes of deuotion publique and priuate are full both of the name and thing did they not knowe that the whole psalter is turned to the Virgin Mary and that therein it is writen venite adoremus eam come let vs adore her Howsoeuer they knew this or no they could not forget their olde saying of the Crosse beholde the woode of the Crosse whereon the saluation of the world hanged venite adoremus come let vs adore it If these will not serue to make them better to remember them selues let them reade their owne Antonin part 3. Tit. 12. cap. 8. and they shall finde him in plaine wordes to tell them that the Saints by the Pope by his canonizing of them are set forth vnto men not onely as an example of faith and holy life but also abomnibus adorandi in necessitatibus inuocandi that is of all to be adored and in necessities to be prayed vnto Wherein to say saieth he that the Pope erred were hereticall But this is like your other common shifts when you say you vse the Saints but as Mediatours of intercession and not of saluation which onely belongs to Christ and that you doe not giue them Latreian but Douleian that is as you expound the words not diuine honour but an inferiour honour not asking at their hāds that they should either giue you the good things you would haue or keepe frō you the euil that you would not haue the falshood and vanity whereof I haue both in my answere to the preface of your booke and also somewhat in this Chapter already bewrayed For let any man read ouer consider your praiers and practise and he shall finde that you make them mediatours of saluation and not onely of intercession though that onely if you did it being as it is a special part of the office of Christs mediatorship to be the very altar whereupon and whereby we must acceptably present these our spirituall sacrifices vnto his heauenly father hee being as he is of himselfe alone thorowly both able willing fully to execute his owne office you could not excuse cleare your selues of being guilty of high treason against Christ And he should further finde that you giue the diuinest honour that may bee that you doe directly beg all things euen at their hands that you can beg at Gods For it is vsual with you to sing to Mary salua eos quite glorificāt saue thē that glorify thee that succour the miserable help the weake refresh them that mourne you say to her Mary mother of grace mother of mercy protect vs frō the enemy receiue vs at the hour of death in the psalter now turned put forth by the deuout seruant of hers Bonauenture as some thinke you sticke not to vse all those speeches to her that in the psalmes are vsed to God himselfe and therefore you blush not to say vnto her Haue mercie vpon me O Lady according to thy great mercy according to the multitude of thy mercies blot out my iniquities But not onely thus haue you doubted about Mary but quite contrarie to your owne wordes when you would vse these shifts you deale with other Saints For you praie to Basil that he would looke downe vpon you from aboue change your whole life and you praie Athanasius to direct the holy people S. Cyprian to direct both your speech and life and who so readeth your speculum exemplonim your glasse of examples he shall finde there and in such other bookes of yours such stories tolde of things done by this Saint and that
Thus seeing by the verie testimonie of those that are our enemies that are your brethren as touching the seeking to ouerthrow the Catholique church The principall pillâ—â—s of your church are bawdes thieues and adulterers ruffins i And yet what is more vsuall with papists then to cry out against our ill liues though your liues be such as you haue confessed why doe yee not first begin to reforme your selues to this intent that when we see that you haue taken the blacke out of your owne eies we maie be the better content that you should spie the moate in ours Remember that our sauiour saith in the gospell that the phisition ought to cure himselfe The XLI Chapter WE are very well contented seeing you so willingly confesse it and that so often that you be counted weake and sickely sheepe and your pastours hirelings But the other part of your speech that we are the sheepe that are runne astraie from Gods sheepfold and our pastours are the rauening wolues wee most constantly in respect of our Religion deny it howsoeuer with you wee must be inforced to confesse that in respect of maners there is fault in both And therefore how boldly soeuer you affirme this seeing still you keepe your olde woond in hauing nothing to proue it but your owne bare wordes our deniall of it counteruaileth it well enough You though you haue graunted your selues to bee neuer so sicke in maners and haue taught vs that Religion must not be stained and thought to be blemished for the lewde liues of some of the professours yet your stomacke so ouerflowed it seemeth with choller against vs and namely against that reuerend father Theodore Beza that you could not bee quiet vntill you had cast it vp to ease your stomacke a little You first tell vs that by experience and reading of the stories of our Martyres you are able to say so much of our lewde liues as that wee haue not much amended the faults that wee finde in you And then you come to that where you long to bee to discredit Beza to whose charge you say sundry heinous crimes and that vpon the report of Tilemannus Heshusius a bitter and intemperate enemy of his for the question amongst vs for the maner of Christes presence in the Sacrament To the first this issue I dare and doe ioyne with you in whatsoeuer you haue reade or seene of vs that we haue read and seene more monstrous and horrible sinnes in the liues of your most holy fathers and Popes of Rome then you are able to charge all that euer professed our Religion withall Was there euer like sauadge crueltie amongst vs one to another as I shewed before was amongst them about Formosus Their pride hath appeared most monstrous in treading vpon Emperours necks and otherwise infinitely in misusing of them as I haue at large shewed Chapter sixteenth Their detestable sorcery nicromancie and poysoning one another to come to the Popedome aboue the yeare one thousand by Siluester the second and his followers set out by Benno a Cardinall in the life of Hildebrand is such as we neuer reade the like amongst the barbarous heathen Their ambition to come to that place and their insatiable couetousnesse when they haue got it hath passe for thereby Christendome hath beene more troubled with Schismes and warres and Christian kingdomes otherwise haue beene more impouerished for these fiue or sixe hundreth yeares then by all other quarrells and occasions incident whatsoeuer Finallie for their filthy life I am perswaded that there were few worse in Sodom and Gomorrha then sundry of them haue beene For Sixtus the fourth in the yeare one thousand foure hundreth seuenty foure builded stewe houses of both kindes and not long after Paul the third registred 45000. whors that paied him monethly such a pension that by the yeare it came to 40000. duckets and more And it was no small argument what filthy fruits their forced single life both had and was likely to bring forth that in Gregories time in certaine fishpondes there were found 6000. childrens heads These thinges your owne Croniclers you know doe make so cleare that now euery one almost can name and describe them as they haue deserued For mine owne part I am euen loath to defile my paper with the names of such filthy wretches as a number of them haue beene and seeing the notorious euidence of the thing is such that you your selfe doe not here deny but that diuerse of them haue beene lewd liuers and therefore therein you haue left them without defence it is needlesse either to trouble my selfe or my Reader any further with the rauing in such a filthy dounghill To proceede therefore you must remeÌ„ber that you may neither draw argument from your writers of the liues and deathes of our Martyrs nor from Heshusius an enemy to Beza either against out Martyrs or against him For the report of an enemy you knowe is worthily suspected as partiall And as for that which Heshusius obiects to Beza he had it from Baudwin and Bolsacke and other such impure and filthy enemies and Apostataes who to win credit again with you when for their misdemeanours our Church had cast them of cared not what to write against Caluin and Beza though they knew it to be neuer so starke a lie To whom Heshusius through heat of contention caried to a desire to deface his aduersary with whatsoeuer hee could giuing too light credit as the maner of meÌ„ is to doe but too too much in such cases he wrote as he did As for his Epigrams wherewith he chargeth him they were made when he was but a youth of 16. or 17. years olde published by that he was 20. then with the great liking of your selues And all this was before he was of our religion euen whiles he was one of yours And as he was yours when he made them so since he was ours he hath diuers times himselfe published his harty repentance for the same and that in print as in his preface before a tragedy of Abrahams sacrifice and in his preface before his poemes and epigrams with thirty Psalmes of Dauid reuised and corrected and else where in his workes And therefore for those the discredit is rather yours then ours But if he had continued in your side if he had gone as farre as euer did any not onely in writing filthie poemes but also in Sodomitry and whoredome it selfe all had beene well inough For of such you haue had good store and yet in good credit with you For besides that diuers of your Popes as namely Clement the 8 Paul the 3 Iulius the third were all notoriously infamous in the stories for their most filthie life Iohannes Casa your Popes Legate and an Archbishop in your Synagogue wrote a booke in the praise of Sodomitry printed in the yeare 1549 at Venice which booke since some of you to shew what liking you had of it haue newlie published
conuinced as shall plainely appeare in the discourse heare folâ—owing Stande no more in the defence of that which you may easilie know and see with your eies if ye will not be wilfully and obstinately blinde â—o bee nothing but deceit d These titles do rightly fit the popish Religion What doe I call it deceit nay I call it a most venimous poison to the soule yea and an hellishe draught of endelesse â—eath e This part your papists play now in England in being recusants of all sound good meanes to reforme them Playe not the parte of a mad man of whome Horace vvriâ—eth in the second booke of his Epistles that he was angry with his frends â—or that they had caused him to bee healed of his phrensie and restored to his wittes againe Bee not angrye that you may if you will bee brought out of the fowle miste into the cleere ayre from darkenesse to â—ight from an horrible phrensie to godly wisedome Followe the wholesome counsel of Saint Paule in the fourth to the Ephesians Vt non simus amplius pueri qui fluctuemus circumferamur quouis vento doctrinae per versutiam hominum per astutiam qua nos adoriuntur vt imponant nobis That we be no longer children and fleete two and fro caried hither and thither with euery blast of doctrine by the wilinesse and craftinesse of men wherewith they set vpon vs to deceiue vs. There haue beene a great manie f In deed so many such Iesuites and Seminaries you haue sent vs such sprongeÌ„ vp in our Realme of late which haue taught vs wronge Lessons Emendemus ergò in melius Let vs amend therefore The thirde propertie is that the sheepe doe follow their Shephearde This property is of so great importance that without it the other two cannot auaile It is not Inough to knowe Christ to be our refuge our helpe and succour g This is true as long as the church retaineth the two former properties which youre long ago hath lost It is not inough with that also to heare Christ speaking to vs in his Church except we follow Christ his Church shew our selues willingly to doe that which the Church commaundeth vs We must fast when the Church commaundeth vs as it biddeth vs We must pray as the Church instructeth vs We must do those good works that the Church teacheth vs to doe In obeying the Church wee obey God if wee bee disobedient to the Church wee disobey God For as Chrysostome saieth vpon the first Epistle to the Corinthians vt corpus caput vnus est homo ita vnum est ecclesia Christus As the body and the heade is but one man so is Christ and his Church one thing Doe therefore as the wise man biddeth thee Audi disciplinam patris tui ne dimittas legem matris tuae Heare the discipline of thy father and forsake not the lawe of thy mother I meane thy mother the h Holy Church hold you there for so long you say nothing for your vnholy and filthie Churche holy church whom as many as forsake they forsake God also For as holy Cyprian writeth de simplicitate praelatorum Habere non potest Deum patrem qui ecclesiam non habet matrem He cannot haue God to be his father that knoweth not the church for his mother i Let this rule be followed for the questions betwixt vs your church shall bee found in those pointes to haue set a broch those things that those most auncient Churches neuer were acquainted withall Yee may see here euidently that this holy man would haue vs to be obedient vnto and diligently to keepe the ordinances of our fathers and not to institute euery â—â—y new fashions as men most vnconstant and full of new fangles The Lacedemonians are praysed that they suffered no straunge ware to be brought into their citty whereby the cittizens might be effeminated and corrupted in their maners and for the same cause they extoll greatly Licurgus which made the same law Now if the Lacedemonians were so serious obseruers of their olde lawes and customes what a shame shall this be to vs christian men which were not taught of Licurgus but of Christ himselfe daily to alter and change not content with those rites and ceremonies that were ord yned of auncient time out of memory Irenaeus teacheth in his third booke against the heresies of Valentine and such other whose wordes taken out of his fourth Chapter of the saide booke I will briefly rehearse Si quae de aliqua modica quaestione disceptatio esset nonne oporteret in antiquissimas recurrere ecclesias in quibus Apostoli conuersati sunt ab eis de praesenti quaestione sumere quod certum reliquidum est If any controuersie should be of any question were it neuer so little must it not be meete to haue our recourse vnto the most ancient churches in the which the Apostles were conuersant of theÌ„ to receaue the plaine certaintie thereof It followeth Quid autem si neque Apostoli quidem Scripturas reliquisleÌ„t nobis noÌ„ne oportebat ordineÌ„ se qui traditionis quá tradideruÌ„t his quibus coÌ„mittebaÌ„t ecclesias But what if the Apostles left k If indeed they had left no scriptures then that had beene a good course but nowe seeing they haâ—e what their tradition was is best lerned by them But the better to hide your folly in citing these wordes you subtily translate scriptures nothing written of that matter nothing writteÌ„ of that matter must we not follow the tradition of theÌ„ to whose gouernaÌ„ce they coÌ„mitted the churches Here haue you the minde of Irenaeus who was neere vnto Christ his time for as S. l Here againe the question is begged for you take for granted that your pâ—elates are lawfully called and ours not both which we deny Hierome testifieth in an Epistle to one Theodora he was Disciple to Papias who was S. Iohn the Euangelists scholler Hee would haue men to be taught of Christ of his Apostles and their successours and m Of the same minde are we therefore Christian men are not to listen to your prelates not of euerie one which rashly and without lawfull authority taketh vpon him to be a teacher Christian men should be obedient to christian ordinances and followe that doctrine that is allowed by them that are lawfullie called and haue the censure of doctrine committed to them Such were the Apostles called and put in authoritie by Christ Such were they n But such haue not beene your Romish teachers these many hundred yeares Witnesse your owne writers who shewe how vnlawfully many of them came by their places to whom these againe gaue the charge ouer any faithfull â—ongregation Such are all they which haue so from time to time â—eene lawefullie called by them that haue power to put others in authoritie and so succeeded in due order else Quomodo praedicabunt
nisi mittantur Howe shall they preach except they bee sent as â—t is written in the tenth to the Romanes and sent by them which haue authoritie to sende Did not Saint Paul for that purpose leaue Titus in Creete Did hee not also giue Timothie charge to laye handes too quickely on no man To these that bee thus lawefullie ordeyned and called to haue cure and charge of soules yee are bounde to giue an eare by these yee must bee ruled in matters of Religion and as obedient children to their spirituall fathers And this biddeth Saint Hierome writing to Nepotian o True and necessarie as long as the pastour is such as Paul wilde Titus to ordeine but this helpeth yours little Esto subiectus pontifici tuo quasi animae parentem suspice Bee subiect to thy Bishop and reuerence him as thy soules father The same lesson teacheth Chrysostome in an Homylie De recipiendo Seueriano where hee beginneth thus Sicuti capiti corpus cohaerere necessarium est ita ecclesiam sacerdoti principi populum As it is of necessitie that the bodie cleaue to the heade so it is likewise of necessitie that the congregation cleaue to their Priest and spirituall ruler and the people to their Prince And within a fewe wordes after hee alleadgeth for the confirmation of this matter the Apostle writing thus to the Hebrewes in the thirteenth Chapter p This rule is not general without exception For Christ hath saide take heede of false Prophets c. Obedite praepositis vestris obtemperate eis quia ipsi peruigilant pro vobis quasi pro animabus vestris rationem reddituri Obey them that haue the ouersight of you and doe as they woulde haue you for they watch for your sakes as they which shall giue accomptes for your soules This obedience doeth our Sauiour require of all men saying Qui vos audit me audit Hee that heareth you heareth mee This obedience to Christes Church hath continued thoroughout all Christendome time out of minde And if the authoritie of the learned and holie fathers ought to beare sway and preuaile as of right it ought to doe indeede Arrogantium enim hominum est maiorum suorum authoritatem aspernari se illis ingenio vel sapientia anteponere For it is the manner and property of proud arrogant persons to contemne the authority of their elders to prefer themselues before theÌ„ in wit or learning If the consent of all christian Regions should be regarded probâ—bilia saieth Aristotle in the first Chapter of the first booke of his Topickes quae videntur omnibus vel plurimis Those things are probable which all men or at the least the most part doe iudge to be so If the long continuance of time must be of importance In his enim as witnesseth S. Hilarie vpon the hundred and eighteene psalme tanquà m in coelo verbum dei permanet in quibus hoc verbum non offenditur In them doth the word of God abide among whom that worde is not offended a This is but a vaine brag that you haue these three as shall appeare I hope sufficieÌ„tly in the answer to Albines treatise For you haue not one of them in such sort as that thereupon you may conclude as you doe If these three I saie The authority of the learned Fathers The common consent of Christian Regions The long continuance of time may be a sufficient testimonie for the verity we haue the true Gospell the true sence of it b These are but shamelesse beggings of the things in question and onely your bare and therefore vaine words for none of them you shal euer proue true Our Religion is the very Christian Religion The order of Ceremonies that the Catholike Church doth vse is the right order Our fasting and praying is according to the Scriptures Our Church is the true and lawfull spouse of Christ from the which as many as seperate them selues they are no sheepe of Christes folde they are reprobate persons they are the children of Belial they are impes of hell c What then is the president of our next last fathers yea though for some hundred or more yeares such as we may not vary from The vanity of this argument see cap. 38. of my answere You knowe what order your fathers kept howe they liued and howe they beleeued You are not ignorant how you haue beene brought vp instructed and trâ—â—ned in the lawes of Christ Whosoeuer goeth about to infringe or breake any part of that d You must proue the order godly and laudable or else your assertion is false godly order of that auncient custome and laudable vsage he is an hereticke an enemy to God a murtherer to mans soule a disturber of the common wealth a subuerter of all honest discipline and therefore most vnworthy to liue among men I e This complaint hath most iust apparant ground especially amongst men of your owne faction though it cannot be denied but that euery where there is so lamentable cause thereof but yet this preiudiceth our religion which condemnes all imoiety no more then you would haue it to doe yours haue heard read and seene many things yet can I not reade beare or see any world more contaminate and prone to al kinde of vices then this our age is And howbeit afore our daies there haue beene in all times and ages men and women very vitious and monstrous in their liuing yet then vertue was vertue and vice was vice But now in our corrupt time wee haue lost the true names and vse of all things and vertue with vs is taken for vice and contrarily vice is counted for vertue They that bee studious of modesty obseruers of temperancie and louers of sobrietie they be now a daies called Pinch-pennies and such that hunger droppeth out of their noses f This is false amongst vs if by catholique you vnderstande as you should sounde and true religion If any be vertuous followers of the Catholike which is the true Religion they be called Pharisies papists The discreete man he is called an hypocrite and the small talker a foole and an ignorant person On the other side they that leade their liues in all kinde of riote they be called handsome men men of the right making and such as can tel how to keepe honest mens companie Againe the statelier that one goeth the â—igher that he looketh and the stouter and malapertlier that he speaketh be more is he praised among the worldlings for a wise man who will not â—uffer himselfe to be ouertroden and made a laughing stocke to euery rasâ—all With such vaine glorious praises be such proude Thrasoes extolled â—nd magnified of the more part and no small number are giuen to flatâ—erie and enhausing of Clawbackes that neuer could that saying of Teâ—ence be better verified then it is now Obse quium amicos veritas oâ—odium parit To holde vp mens yea and their naye in holding with
be trueths as fully and more fully then he or any of his side For proofe whereof cōsider that whereas the whole preface consists in the copie and edition that I had of his in print to aunswere of twenty two leaues hee spendes the first eight pages in prouing that Kinges Princes and rulers both ciuill and ecclesiasticall must carefullie administer iustice according to their callings and so bee as good shepherdes to them of whome they haue charge which who doubteth of or who euer denyed amongst vs yea we teaching as we do that Emperours Kings and Queenes in their kingdomes are carefully to looke to the keeping of both tables amongst their people and that they are next vnder God the supreme gouernours of their people aswel in causes ecclesiastical in commaunding for the good of the church and religion of Christ as in causes ciuill in commaunding for the common weale and the good estate thereof and they denying ciuil Magistrates any such authority in causes of the church doe not we far more fully then they teach them how and when they may be as good shepheards to their people Then by occasion of this former needlesse discourse hauing alleadged that Iohn 10. to proue that a good shepheard giueth his life for his sheepe and that Christ is that good sheepheard that knowes his sheepe and is knowen of them marke how in as many mo pages he inferreth that it is necessary that the sheepe know their shepheard that they heare his voice and geue no eare to the voice of a stranger and lastly that they follow and obey their shepheard which are things also truly taught and vnderstoode which we most gladly teach embrace and for lacke of which properties of Christes sheepe wee constantly hold aduouch that the Romish flocke these manie yeares hath rather beene a flocke of goates then of Christes true sheepe For if they knowe as they should that the name of the sheepheard Christ were the only name whereby commeth saluation Act. 4. and that in him all things are prepared already Math. 22. they would not set vp to themselues so many names of persons and thinges besides him nor hold that so many thinges besides those that are already prepared in him are left to thēselues and others to that ende to prepare as they doe And if they did so heare his voice and refuse to heare the voice of strangers as Christes sheepe ought there neither would nor could be so many strange doctrines yea contrary doctrines to the voice of Christ set downe in the Canonical scriptures receaued maintained amongst them as ear I haue done with Albine I shall shew there are Likewise such followers obeiers of the voice of Christ are they haue they beene for these 4. or 500. yeares speaking vnto them in his word writtē by the mouth of his true church aūcient sound pastours thereof as that none euer in a number of most weighty and materiall matters more directly contraried his voice then they Whither I haue iust ground and proofe for my thus saying I referre thee to that which I haue written in confutation of Albines discourse cap. 4.17.29 36. And yet such is the folly of this nameles preface wryter that hauing thus noted these to be the properties of Christs true sheepe as though by and by without any further proofe at all it ought of necessity to bee granted that he and his side had all these properties and that we of our side had neuer a one of them all but were notoriously branded with the contrary markes he triumpheth and insulteth ouer vs spending all the rest of his preface in railing vpon vs and in perswading his reader to forsake vs and to ioyne with him his So that all the rest of his preface is builded vppon a most shamefull and impudent begging of all these points that they know Christ aright heare his voice no other obey him and follow him most orderly and also of these that his begging of that former may seeme the more reasonable that their doctrine is sound hauing countenāce of al auncient holy fathers of the cōsent of al Christiā Regions prescription of time that their prelates are al prelates lawfully called hauing right succession euery thing that they should haue to credit them withal therefore that they are such as Christ hath commaunded to to be obeyed as himselfe and lastly that their church is the holie Catholike church the obedient spouse of Christ and mother of all the faithfull and that therefore it is damnation to depart frō her or to refuse to obey any of her lawes and ordinances that with vs all things are quite contrary All these things his reader must graunt him suppose to be true for he hath nothing at all to proue any one of these besides swelling words of vanity and lofty arrogant bragging that these things are so And therefore al these things being the things in question betwixt vs and such as we all most constantly and iustly haue alwaies denied as our writings of these points heretofore now this answere of mine in sundry places thereof make manifest to any indifferēt reader thereupon it must needes follow that whatsoeuer he hath alleadged either out of scripture or doctor to perswade his reader to obey their church their prelates their ordinances traditions is shamefully abused For compare the times when the persons whereof those things were written their doctrine and doings with these and you shall finde witnes the scriptures thēselues and all sound antiquity as much differēce betwixt their church prelates doctrine and ordinances and them of whom those places are to be truely vnderstoode as there is betwixt light and darkenesse the pure Church of Christ and the impure Synagogue of Antichrist And also all his exhortation vpon these grounds to ioine with them and all his bitter inuectiues against vs for refusing so to doe is as a building in the aire without all foundation And therefore is thus easilye pulde downe and laide vnderfoote as a thing more meete to bee trampled vpon as a thing of nothing then by any to bee at all regarded And yet as foule a fault as this is in him it is common to him with all wryters of his side and most notoriously with this Iohn de Albine before whose booke hee hath set this his preface It may bee seeing his author whom hee ment to publish and of whom he had such an opinion that hee accounted him a notable discourser against heresies to haue such a grace and dexterity in stuffing out his booke almost with nothing else but with this beggerly begging the maine questions alwaies that he thought his preface should not be suteable and fit to be set before such a learned discourse vnlesse it were garnished bewtified with the same popish grace And if this were his reason then which I am sure hee hath no better hee is to bee borne withall for what
word to trust them any more in their quoting or citing of the fathers But lest we should thinke that this was but a slippe of his by chance that hee was not his craftes-master in this kinde of dealing he hath plaide vs the very like trick againe with this same father pa. 18. where he alleadgeth the fourth chapter of the said Irenaeus third booke to iustify their traditions not warranted by the written word For in the beginning of the saide chapter not fiue lines before the wordes cited by him hee speaking of the scriptures written by the Apostles Euāgelists he saith that they into that rich treasury most fully haue brought all things that belōg to truth so that euery one that will may frō thence take the drink of life And that which he speaketh in the words alleaged by him of following of tradition it is spoken only by way of supposition to shew what course had bene best for the Church whē any questiō should haue arisen if they had not left vs scriptures For his words are these if the Apostles had not left vs scriptures must we not haue followed the order of tradition which they gaue to them to whom they committed churches In which case which is not our case nowe seeing they haue left vs scripture we grant we should haue beene in the deciding of all controuersies that could haue arisen ouerruled by that which they deliuered by word of mouth to such and therefore that being the case no better or readier way for the ending of controuersies should there haue been then to haue recourse to the most ancient Churches wherin they were conuersant and so by their tradition to haue learned the certainty therein But thus by way of supposition Irenaeus speaking of their tradition in the case supposed by him certaine it is that by their tradition he vnderstādeth that soūd form of doctrin which they deliuered by their preaching teaching which thē would should haue been the same forasmuch as they spoke wrot by one spirit that now they haue left vs in writing And therefore euē then the Romish Church should haue been as far to seeke as she is now for hauing any warrant from thence for those things that she holdeth either contrary or besides the word written And that by tradition he meaneth here no other thing it is euident for in the first chapter of that booke he saith plainely Quod tum praeconiauerunt postea per Dei voluntatem nobis tradiderunt in scripturis columnam fundamētum fidei futurum that is that which first they preached after by the will of god they deliuered vnto vs in the scriptures to be the piller and ground of faith And in the third chapter of that book hauing before spoken of the Apostolicke tradition he after sheweth what he meant thereby namely this that god the maker of heauen and earth c as he is described in the olde testament the Apostles haue taught to be the father of our Lord Iesus Christ contrary to the phantasticall franticke dreame of Valentinian so plainely shewing that they that would euen by the scriptures themselues might learne what the Apostolick traditiō was Now what is this for the authorishing the vnwritē traditiōs of the Romish church which are not ōly al beside the scriptures but whereof the most are contrary thereūto But this gentle reader is the right trick of all the crue of these Romanists thus by the ambiguity of words out of the fathers to seek to colour their absurd opinions so er thou be a ware to deceaue thee if thou take not heede As for example to perswade a mā to like of their beggerly vnwritten traditiōs whatsoeuer any father speaketh of traditiō though it be neuer so plaine in the author himselfe that thereby he meaneth nothing lesse then such traditions as theirs yet that must be confidently brought in as fit most pregnant for their purpose Likwise whatsoeuer any father hath said of any sacramētall chāge of the outward elements for that therein their name vse estimation are chāged though the same father in a thousād other places shew that his iudgemēt is that there is no change at all there in substance yet that must be quoted as a flat place for Popish trāsubstantiation And euen so if they find in a father speaking of the Eucharist any mention of a sacrifice as though there were no kind of sacrifice but that which they dream to bee there that must be vrged as a strong place to proue their blasphemous sacrifice for the quick the dead And this iugling with the fathers and cosening of their poore simple readers vse they in al their cōtrouersies But at this time thou must pardō this preface writer this fault because herein he doth but study to bee like him before whose book he hath set this his preface For chapter the fifth he himselfe most grosly committeth this same fault in the detection whereof I haue more at large discouered this lewde dealing of theirs In the meane time let vs not forget that Irenaeus hath taught vs what that church is who those pastours be what those traditiōs are that we must obey be ruled by namely onely that Church that hath the scriptures for the piller groūd of her faith lib. 3. cap. 1. those pastours that succeede the Apostles in truth of doctrine li. 4. cap. 43. those traditiōs which haue good warrant from the scriptures themselues lib. 3. cap. 3. whereof it must needes follow that all the places reasons quoted by him either out of the scriptures or fathers to binde vs to yeeld obedience to their churches ordinances their prelates cōmandements to the points warranted onely by their traditions their Church hauing another foundation of her faith then the worde written namely alwaies their popes will as it hath the commādemēts of their prelates traditions being not only beside but also often most grosly contrary to that word of God writtē as I shal shew in sundry places er I haue done with Albine in Irenaeus iudgemēt ar but so many abusings and corruptings of their holy good meanings And yet thus hauing to no purpose bestowed a great deale of idle paines as one that had said inough to proue that the authority of all the learned fathers the cōmon consēt of all Christiā regions prescriptiō of time were al ful fast of his side he lustily braggeth p. 22. that if their be any weight in any or al these together that his side hath the true gospell the true sence thereof That their Religion is the very Christian Religion their order of ceremonies the right order and that their fasting and praying is according to the scriptures and that therefore their church is the lawfull and true spouse of Christ from which who so seperates himselfe is in state of damnation This thus only said thereupō by and by as though there were no
remedy but that we must needs grant all this to be true he taketh occasion to triumph and to frame a bitter inuectiue against our Religion and liues so concluding his wordy preface with an exhortation to his Reader to forsake vs our Religiō to ioine againe with thē in theirs All which because it is nothing but the vaine malitious wordes of a foolish aduersary without proofe or shadowe of proofe which therefore I am sure the wise Reader will make no reckoning of I might very well let passe with this onely answere that whatsoeuer he hath here said braggingly either in the commendation of his Religion Church or to the disgrace of ours is vtterly false and that I haue plentifully proued it so to be in sundry places of this my answere Howbeit seing this is not only his brag but the brag also a nūber of times of Iohn de Albine in the booke following indeed is in effect the only thing by taking whereof granted most subtily they all their fellowes seeke to beguile their simple readers it shal not be amisse because here first we meete with it least otherwise the Reader should be too ready to suffer his hart to be sorestald with this false principle to the preiudice of the truth somewhat to say to make both the vanity falshood hereof to appeare to euery one First therefore it is worthy the marking that the mā though as hee plainly sheweth hee had here a full purpose at least in wordes to giue as great countenaunce as he could to his cause that yet he seekes to giue it credit but by the testimonie of fathers consent of Christian regions and prescription of time in the meane time omitting that which is to be preferd before all these namely the testimony of the vndoubted word of God reuealed set downe in the scriptures wherein he hath dealt but as the nature of his cause requires which hath no countenance from thence and as the fashion of other of his companiōs in this case is For hereupō it is that there is nothing more cōmon in their discourses then to labour by all meanes they can the disgrace of the written word of god and to establish the credite of a word vnwritten which they count to be the traditions or ordinary practise of the Church of Rome To this ende they bestowe so much paines as they doe at least to make shewe of proofe that the scriptures are so darke and obscure so insufficiēt for the direction of the Church in all matters and of so vveake authority of themselues without the authority and testimonie of the Church to countenance them that without the foresaid vnwritten word no man could either fully or certainly be setled and established in the truth So that herein this is their drift that they indeed being without all sounde warrant out of the canonicall scriptures for those thinges which wee count erroneous in thē they yet may make their followers beleeue that they haue as good ground as need be for them in that they can proue thē by the tradition of the Church which they call the word of god vnwritten and which they hold to be not onely aequal vnto the other that is written but also far more full and certaine for the determining the trueth of all controuersies And therefore Soto contra Brentium Canisius cap. 5. of his Catechisme and Lindan lib. 5. cap. 10. of his panoplie are not ashamed to confesse reckening almost all the pointes in controuersie betwixt them and vs that they haue their ground and warrant from tradition not written in the scriptures And hereupon it is that there is nothing more common with any of them then when wee presse them with this that the opinions for the which we striue with them haue no warrāt in the scripture yea that the scriptures rightly vnderstoode are flatte against them therein to flye to tradition which is the cause that this fellowe him selfe was so busie before to abuse Irenaeus for the countenance of that onely foundation of their Religion For this cause we may doe say of them that iustly by their owne confessiō as Tertullian saide of the hereticks in his time they cannot stand if they be driuen once to determine al their controuersies by the scriptures de Resurrectione Carnis cap. 3. Now as for vs Christian reader for all this lewde bragge of his we appeale to these scriptures of god and onely wee allowe of them as of a most perfect touchstone whereby to trye in all matters of Religion the pure golde from the counterfait crauing no further liking nor allowance in any thing then by them wee are able soundly to proue and confirme that which we say and teach And the ancient holy fathers and so the Christian regions in al ancient prescription of time which are the things that he here brags of as it appeares in all sound monuments of antiquity euer since these scriptures were written for the determining of controuersies in their times haue alwaies taken this course to cōfute confound all aduersaries to the truth As for their owne authority or the authority of any other before them no further credit they craue then as they are foūd to agree with these scriptures otherwise the more that haue couseted the lōger they held the worse This I haue made manifest by plētifull testimony of the ancient fathers thēselues cap. 3.5.23 And therfore whiles he sends vs thus to the fathers Christian regions consent prescription of time he sēds vs but about the bush for when we come to thē they will send vs backe againe to the scriptures But whiles they take this course in seeking rather countenance for their cause any where else then at or by the canonicall scriptures in the iust iudgement of god they plainly bewray themselues to euery simple mā to haue but a bad cause that they so shun the light and refuse the most certaine most indifferent triall of it which questionles is by these scriptures whose neither authority nor indifferecy without blasphemy may once be called in question Indeed I read that whē they were pressed with the authority of these scriptures the Marcionites pretēded for the defence of their heresy their paraclet or cōforters visiōs instructiōs that likewise the Mōtanists did fly to their prophecy the Valētinians to their dreams of their Aeons the Manichees to their fundamētal Epistle the Iewes to their Talmud the Turks to their Alcaron belike lest these should be foūd vnlike these their predecessors they will thus fly from the vndoubted authority of god speaking in the scriptures to the vncertaine and variable authority of man Yet if this were true that he saith that they haue the auncient holy fathers the common consent of all Christian regions pre scriptiō of time of their side it were sōewhat some likelihood it were that things were with thē as he saith I must needs cōfesse
nor scriptures giue it any credit or couÌ„tenaÌ„ce at al. For first whereas now they pray al in Latine a touÌ„g not vnderstood of most that heare vse their prayers it is a kinde of praying flatly condemned because it is without edification to such by Chrysostome Ambrose vpoÌ„ the 14. of the first to the Corinthians Augustine also de Genesi ad literaÌ„ li. 12. Cap. 8. ioines with them herein aduouching that no maÌ„ is edified by hearing that which he vnderstands not And the descriptions of al the auncient lyturgies in the Church shew that alwaies they were vsed in such a tongue as the people vnderstood aswell as the minister there is such mentioÌ„ of intercourse of speech one to the other as any man may see that perused the descriptions thereof yea writers both old new do plainely testify that the ancient long coÌ„tinued vse of the church hath bene to haue her publicke liturgy in the knowen vulgar tongue of the people For OrigeÌ„ coÌ„tra CelsuÌ„ lib. 8. writeth that the Grecians name God in greeke the Romans in the latin tongue and euery one in their natiue and mother tongue pray sing Psalmes vnto God And Hierom to Eustochuim describing the solemne funeral of Pacta elsewhere to Marcella testifieth that though to BethleeÌ„ there was coÌ„course of very many seueral nations yet euery one there praised god praied vnto him in their owne laÌ„guage Insomuch that eueÌ„ Lyra vpoÌ„ the 14 of the first to the Corinthians coÌ„fesses that in the primitiue church al was done in the vulgar tongue And no loÌ„ger ago then InnoceÌ„t the thirds time in the LateraÌ„ couÌ„cel held in his time 1215. c. 9. order is takeÌ„ that where in one cuntrey there be people of diuers laÌ„guages there the Bishops should prouide them ministers to celebrate theÌ„ diuine seruice to minister theÌ„ the sacraments according to the diuersities of their rites laÌ„guages Yet further that thou maist see Christian reader in this point that the maÌ„ blusheth at nothing vnderstaÌ„d that by the coÌ„fession of their own frend Eckius in his coÌ„moÌ„ places the South IndiaÌ„s haue their liturgy in their mother tongue by the coÌ„fessioÌ„ of another one SigismuÌ„d writing of the Moscovites that they likewise haue theirs And Petrus Bellonius writing of the Armonians testifies the like of theÌ„ yea Aeneas Siluius who after was a Pope in his history of the BohemiaÌ„s c. 13. plainly shewes that a Pope was admonished by a voice from heauen to graÌ„t Cyril that conuerted Russia Moralia to say diuine seruice amoÌ„gst theÌ„ in the Shlauon tongue which was their vulgar tongue How haue they theÌ„ as he bragges these things considered either the ancient holy fathers consent of al regions or such prescription of time as he preteÌ„ds for this maner of praying of theirs in a tongue not vnderstoode of most And who can read the 14 of the first to the Corinthians vnlesse he bee disposed wilfully to be blinde but he must needes there see that this maner of praying is directly there condemned Chrysostome Ambrose Haymo Lyra and so expositours both ancient and nevv take it howsoeuer our late Rhemists in their notes would faine vvrest the place from any such meaning And in this respect suppose othervvise their prayers vvere faultles who seeth not that they giue God occasion againe to renue his olde complaint Esay 29. This people drawe neare vnto mee with their lippes but their hart is farre from mee of most people vvhich through their tyranny onely pray thus But in this poynt onely there is not vanity and falshoode in his bragge for othervvise if vve consider vvell their maner of praying vve shall finde both grosse vntrueth in his speech and horrible faultes in their prayers For how can it bee true that consent of fathers and the rest that he bragges of doe countenaunce that set forme of church-seruice that now they are in possession of seing neither the ancient fathers nor yet one quarter of Christendome vvas euer acquainted with it There owne authours and namely Polydor de inuentoribus rerum lib. 5. cap. 10 doe shevv hovv it came in and vvas deuysed piece after piece In the one thousand tvvo hundred yeares after Christ it vvas not grovven eyther to that full forme or credit that it is at novv For the forme of masse novv vsed commonly called Saint Gregories masse with much adoe got to be first in these westerne partes receiued in Pope Adrians time 790 yeares after Christ witnes Durand Nauclere and Iacobus de voragine and yet euen then and long after Millayn continued the vse of a forme of liturgy receiued from Ambrose Benedict the 3 that succeeded next Ioan the harlot about the yeare 857 first inuented brought in the dirge as most authors write though Gregory the 3 had done soÌ„what about it before The first allowance of the sequences in the masse is attributed to Nicolas the first that succeeded this Benedict In Alexander the 2 time Alliluiah was first suspeÌ„ded out of the church in â—eÌ„t time which was aboue 1000 yeare after Christ Our ordinary here in England secundum vsum Sarum began 1076 yeares after Christ and that as our stories shew by occasion of a bloody quarel betwixt the Abbot of Glassenbury his monkes The 7 canonical houres came in first by Vrban the second in the yeare one thousand ninety But Gregory the ninth that monstrous enemy of Fredericke the second first brought in that blasphemous canticle Salue regina one thousaÌ„d two huÌ„dred yeare more after Christ And howsoeuer these patches in the ende grevve in these partes to bâ—â— sovved togither yet the other partes of the vvorld vnder the Cyprians time about the yeare 255. when Corneliu Bishop of Rome vnaduisedly coÌ„trary to the good policy of the church and after him Stephanus tooke vpon them so to admitte of fugitiues out of Africke at Rome that not only they receaued them into their communion but tooke vpon them to labour their restitution they being before for their iust demerits excommunicated and deposed in Africke Cyprian wrote vnto them both to Cornelius in his first booke of Epistles Epistle 3. and to Stephanus in his second booke and first Epistle wherein earnestly he reproueth them for so intermedling in his iurisdiction the iurisdictioÌ„ of other his collegues in Africke shewing theÌ„ that they ought not so to do for they in Africk had as ful Bishoply autority as they at Rome and therefore were both able and the fittest to heare and determine such cases as fell out amongst themselues But seeing for all this the Bishops of Rome still were too busy in meddling further then they should after this in the counsell of Nice cannon 6. their authority and the Patriarches of Alexandria are made equall about the yeare 320. And yet the better to stay and keepe the Bishops of Rome within their due limits after this in most counsels for 300. yeares after
her publicke liturgy in the knowen vulgar tongue of the people For OrigeÌ„ coÌ„tra CelsuÌ„ lib. 8. writeth that the Grecians name God in greeke the Romans in the latin tongue and euery one in their natiue and mother tongue pray sing Psalmes vnto God And Hierom to Eustochium describing the solemne funeral of Pacta elsewhere to Marcella testifieth that though to BethleeÌ„ there was coÌ„course of very many seueral nations yet euery one there praised god praied vnto him in their owne laÌ„guage Insomuch that eueÌ„ Lyra vpoÌ„ the 14 of the first to the Corinthians coÌ„fesses that in the primitiue church al was done in the vulgar tongue And no loÌ„ger ago then InnoceÌ„t the thirds time in the LateraÌ„ couÌ„cel held in his time 1215. c. 9. order is takeÌ„ that where in one cuntrey there be people of diuers laÌ„guages there the Bishops should prouide them ministers to celebrate theÌ„ diuine seruice to minister theÌ„ the sacraments according to the diuersities of their rites laÌ„guages Yet further that thou maist see Christian reader in this point that the maÌ„ blusheth at nothing vnderstaÌ„d that by the coÌ„fession of their own frend Eckius in his coÌ„moÌ„ places the South IndiaÌ„s haue their liturgy in their mother tongue by the coÌ„fessioÌ„ of another one SigismuÌ„d writing of the Moscovites that they likewise haue theirs And Petrus Bellonius writing of the Armonians testifies the like of theÌ„ yea Aeneas Siluius who after was a Pope in his history of the BohemiaÌ„s c. 13. plainly shewes that a Pope was admonished by a voice from heauen to graÌ„t Cyril that conuerted Russia Moralia to say diuine seruice amoÌ„gst theÌ„ in the Shlauon tongue which was their vulgar tongue How haue they theÌ„ as he bragges these things considered either the ancient holy fathers consent of al regions or such prescription of time as he preteÌ„ds for this maner of praying of theirs in a tongue not vnderstoode of most And who can read the 14 of the first to the Corinthians vnlesse he bee disposed wilfully to be blinde but he must needes there see that this maner of praying is directly there condemned Chrysostome Ambrose Haymo Lyra and so expositours both ancient and nevv take it howsoeuer our late Rhemists in their notes would faine vvrest the place from any such meaning And in this respect suppose othervvise their prayers vvere faultles who seeth not that they giue God occasion againe to renue his â—olde complaint Esay 29. This people drawe neare vnto mee with their lippes but their hart is farre from mee of most people vvhich through their tyranny onely pray thus But in this poynt onely there is not vanity and falshoode in his bragge for othervvise if vve consider vvell their maner of praying vve shall finde both grosse vntrueth in his speech and horrible faultes in their prayers For how can it bee true that consent of fathers and the rest that he bragges of doe countenaunce that set forme of church-seruice that now they are in possession of seing neither the ancient fathers nor yet one quarter of Christendome vvas euer acquainted with it There owne authours and namely Polydor de inuentoribus rerum lib. 5. cap. 10 doe shevv hovv it came in and vvas deuysed piece after piece In the one thousand tvvo hundred yeares after Christ it vvas not grovven eyther to that full forme or credit that it is at novv For the forme of masse novv vsed commonly called Saint Gregories masse with much adoe got to be first in these westerne partes receiued in Pope Adrians time 790 yeares after Christ witnes Durand Nauclere and Iacobus de voragine and yet euen then and long after Millayn continued the vse of a forme of liturgy receiued from Ambrose Benedict the 3 that succeeded next Ioan the harlot about the yeare 857 first inuented brought in the dirge as most authors write though Gregory the 3 had done soÌ„what about it before The first allowance of the sequences in the masse is attributed to Nicolas the first that succeeded this Benedict In Alexander the 2 time Alliluiah was first suspeÌ„ded out of the church in â—eÌ„t time which was aboue 1000 yeare after Christ Our ordinary here in England secundum vsum Sarum began 1076 yeares after Christ and that as our stories shew by occasion of a bloody quarel betwixt the Abbot of Glassenbury his monkes The 7 canonical houres came in first by Vrban the second in the yeare one thousand ninety But Gregory the ninth that monstrous enemy of Fredericke the second first brought in that blasphemous canticle Salue regina one thousaÌ„d two huÌ„dred yeare more after Christ And howsoeuer these patches in the ende grevve in these partes to bee sovved togither yet the other partes of the vvorld vnder the other patriarches were litle or not at all troubled with theÌ„ And howsoeuer he shame not to aduouch that now their manner of praying is according to the scriptures Gregory l. 7. Epist 63. writes that Mos ApostoloruÌ„ fuit it was the maner of the Apostles to consecrate onely with the Lords praier which simplicity who so coÌ„pares with their stagelike dealing thereabout now he can neuer be persuaded that two fashioÌ„s so differing should both haue couÌ„tenaÌ„ce of scriptures But to make it yet more euident that of al other things he might worst haue made this brag of their manner of praying there are two great notorious faults more therein their praying for the dead to helpe theÌ„ out or to ease theÌ„ in the paines of purgatory their praying as they do to Saintes Angels For in these two points they are not onely destitute of the testimony of the holy auÌ„cient fathers consent of al Christian regions prescription of so long time as he makes shew of and the scriptures but rather al these are indeed herein against them For purgatory it selfe consequently praiers made to releeue soules there is but a very late deuise neuer yet receiued of halfe of Christendome For in William Rufus time king here of England there being a councell held at Baron there the Greek church in this point plainly discented from the Latin and neuer from that day to this could be brought herein to be of their minde whereby any maÌ„ may gather that it is a point which the Latine church hath deuised since the greek church broke of coÌ„munioÌ„ froÌ„ her that neuer yet had either consent of al christian nations or such prescriptioÌ„ of time to couÌ„tenaÌ„ce it as he talkes of And as for the scriptures let theÌ„ be perused thorow there shal not be fouÌ„d in them that bee of the canon either example of prayer or sacrifice for the dead yea rather plainely hee shal finde them alwaies vrging the time of this present life to bee the onely time to doe good in and to seeke the Lorde for our comfort euer after And as for the other point concerning their prayers to Saints departed and Angels it
is such a thing for the vvhich in all the scripture they can finde neyther precept promisse nor example to leade them to vse it but to teach them to abhor it there they shall or at least may learne that inuocation is a speciall diuine poynt of seruice of such spirituall and high nature as that God challengeth it onely to himselfe that therefore neuer any holy man mentioned in the scriptures durst euer vse it to any other Indeede a man shall easily finde that ere Epiphanius time Sathan had taught the heretiques called Caians to worship Angels with inuocation of them and that likewise ere his time in Africke there were that offred to Mary the virgin and that in inuocating her and other saints were verie busy pretended great piety deuotion but withal he shal finde that he bitterly condemnes al that did so for heretiques vnder the name either of Caians Antidicomarianites o◠Collyridians Heres 38 78. c. that in as bitter manner as may be vsing the same speeches reasons against them that we doe now vsually in these daies against these Now where they would shift of the absurdity blasphemy of robbing God his sonne Christ of their due honour herein in saying first that their praying to the souls of Saints departed may aswel stād with their honour as the requiring of our brethren aliue to pray for vs then in affirming that they begge nothing at their hands but stil they conclude their praiers vnto them with this clause by the merites of our Lord Iesus Christ they cannot so escape or excuse themselues For neither doe they only desire the Saints departed to pray to God for them as we doe our brethren here whiles they liue neither do they alwaies remember so to conclude their praiers vnto them For in their office which they call the seruice of the blessed Marie there bee three prayers made vnto her wherein no lesse then eternall life is begged directly at her hands yet there this clause is quite forgottē The like may be obserued in many other praiers of theirs to them as for example in their praier to S. Osmund confessor in one to S. Anne and in an other to S. Katherin And if it were so that they so shut vp al their praiers vnto them what were that else then to make Christ mediator betwixt vs them For can we in any words more plainly acknowledge Christs effectual mediation betwixt vs and his father then by requiring all things that wee begge of his father per dominnm nostrum Iesum Christum by our Lorde Iesus Christ Then what is this else but for their pleasures to put him from his old office of being mediator betwixt God and man to make him nowe mediatour betwixt men and wemen aliue and the souls of other men wemen dead They say in their maner of praying they neuer cause the Saints any more to incroch of his office of mediation then wee doe when wee desire one another being aliue to pray to god for vs what say they then to that prayer of theirs in the name of Thomas Becket Tu per Thomae sanguinē quē pro te effudit fac nos Christe scandere quò Thomas ascendit That is O thou Christ by the bloode of Thomas which for thee hee shed make vs ascend thither whither Thomas is gone They knowe this is or was in their portuisse But if this be not plaine inough both to make it appeare that they pray otherwise to the Saints departed then we doe to thē aliue that in their praying to thē most blasphemously contrary to all holy ancient fathers iudgement consent of al Christian nations prescriptiō of al ages and the holy scriptures themselues marke Christian Reader these further presidents In the masse of the annuntiation they sing thus to Mary Salue virgo virginum mediatrix hominum all haile virgin of virgins the mediatrix of men and in the masse of the conception thus Tu spes certamiserorum verè mater orphanorum tu lenamen oppressorum medicamen infirmorum omnibus es omnia That is speaking to the same Mary Thou art the certaine hope of the miserable truely the mother of orphans the helpe of the oppressed the medicine for the sicke to all thou art all things Infinite such examples there be whereby it is most cleare that nothing can bee begged of God himselfe which they beg not of the saints that no title cā be giuē to god but they haue giuē it to one Saint or other Besids al this we must cōsider that the children of God being aliue are commanded to pray one for another that by speech letter or messenger they know how to acquaint one another with their minde whereas in praying to their soules after their death we haue neither commādemēt so to doe neither can we indeede persuade our selues that whatsoeuer we say vnto thē they heare and see our minds vnles we thinke now after once they be in heauen they are inuested in the very nature of God himselfe so are become aswell as he searchers scers of the harts raines which once to imagine because it is extreame blasphemy therefore their is infinite difference euen for these reasons betwixt desiring a Christian brother aliue to pray for vs the desiring of his soule departed but once to doe so much for vs. Againe if that were but all they doe in praying to the Saints departed then howsoeuer because of our frailty that sticketh by vs whiles we liue it were necessary one of vs to require that at the hands of another that so the better vve may performe the duety one to another yet their is not the like reason why we should so cal vpon them that are departed though they could heare vs for they being where they haue laide aside all frailty and forgetfulnesse of their dueties it being supposed to be their dueties to pray for their brethren sisters in Christ aliue we may be sure they will do it without our remēbring of them thus But now no more of these two points here for ca. thirty seuen I haue spokē againe somewhat largely thereof where I haue shewed both when and how these corruptions came in and who resisted them also Wherefore to goe on with cōfutation of the obiectiō which I haue vndertaken to answere concerning that point when and by vvhom the Romish religion came in and vvho spyed it and confuted it besides the pointes already touched amongst many other wherein we differ from them these are three principall for the which I account both them their religion Antichristian their doctrine of trāsubstantiation of images and vowed single life and yet in these they bragge of fathers consent of Christian regions and prescription of time as in the former To aunswere therefore both that demaunde concerning these pointes also and to strip them withall of that visard of antiquity and vniuersallity that herein along time
the picture of Iesus or sōe of the Saints yet he cōdemneth it as contrary both to the scriptures and Christian Religion therefore perswades him not to suffer any such thing any more for it became him to banish such superstition which was vnseemely for the Church of Christ Yea Lactantius lib. 2 cap. 19. of his diuine institutions saieth flatly that their can be no Religion where there is an image he liued florished in the yeare 320. And S Augustine who liued after al these before named for he died not before the yeare 430. de consensu Euangelistarum lib. 1. cap 2. writeth that they euen deserue to erre which seeke Christ and his Apostles not in bookes but in painted wals Yea Gregory the great as they cal him Bishop of Rome though thē the painting of stories for an ornamēt of the church was thought tolerable yet he lib. 7. Epist 109. lib. 9. Epist 9. to Serenus slatly cōdemneth the adoring worshipping of images And whereas by occasiō of this tolerating of historicall painting of them through the superstition corruption of mans nature within short time by litle litle the worshipping of thē grew to be too much vsed liked of many especially in these Westerne parts of the Bishops of Rome thēselues by the yeare of Christ 700. the Emperour Leo the third in a coūcell held at Constantinople consisting of 330. Bishops there with the consent of that coūcell decreed that they should be quite remoued out of churches burnt seuerely he punishes those which notwithstanding would perseuere in the worshipping of them And the same course tooke his successour Constantine by another great coūcell held their ratifying the former two Emperours more succeeding him notwithstāding al this while the Bishops of Rome with stood thē what they might decreed as fast for the retaining worshipping of thē as they could as it appeares in Sigebert Blōdus others Howbeit though also in the time of Irene the nonage of her sonne Constātine in the east through the suggestiō of Therasius Bishop of Constantinople they got there a councell helde at Nicea consisting of three hūdreth fifty Bishops where to currie fauour againe with the Bishops of Rome who vpō the former occasiō as it appears in Sigebert others had bene a shrewd traiterous meanes to cause these westerne parts to reuolt frō the empire they decreed according to their humour for the honour of images Yet Africk Asia the greater could neuer be brought to receiue those canōs there made yea that more is though by that time the Pope had made Charles the great very much beholding to him in being the means to trāslate the empire of the west vnto him so were those canōs in this point misliked cōtradicted here in thes western parts that a coūcel in his time by his meās as the Emperour being called at Francford whereunto came many Bishops of Italy Frāce Germāy other cūtries yet there euē for this point was that coūcel of Nice reiected cōdēned as a wicked councell witnes both Regino lib. 2. anno 794. also one Hinckmare not lōg after those times Archbishop of Rhemes writing against another of his name thē Bishop of Iandune or Lauedune as some cal it ca. 20. where he for further proofe of this to be true writeth that the Bishops their assembled caused a booke of purpose to be writen sent to Rome cōteining at large a cōfutatiō of al the reasons vsed for images at Nicea which in his yoūg yeares he saw which the keeper of the Popes library Augustine Steuchus cōfesses to lie there writē in anciēt caracters de donatione Constantini lib. 2. cap. 59. nu 60. And Roger Houodē who liued 400. years ago in his cōtinuatiō of Bedeas story in the year 792. shewing how Charles sēt the canōs of that coūcel of Nice hither wherin as he saith it was decreed that images ought to bee adored which the church of God vtterly detesteth reports that one Albirus here wrote an epistle against that determinatiō maruelously grounded vpō the scriptures which he caried into France as he saith in the name of our Bishops by occasion whereof the rather it should seeme shortly after Charles thought meete to call the foresaid coūcell at Francford All these things notwithstanding neuer were images pillers and crosses more idolatrously decreed to be worshipped their nor euer were idols more grosly adored of heretiques or the very pagans and heathen then they haue bene yet be of superstitious Papists For they crouch kneele vnto them present offerings before them they run a pilgrimage vnto them and teach that they are to be worshipped with that honour that is due vnto them whose images and monuments they be though in an other manner not for their owne sakes but for theirs whose remembrances they be But indeed if in worshipping of them they did not principally respect the Images themselues why should there not be as great deuotion as many pilgrimages as great offerings presented yeelded to the image of Christ Mary or of any other aswell in one place as in an other Well howsoeuer they will do wickedly herein and when they haue done seeke to colour the matter such in truth all the worlde sees herein hath beene their dealing that Euthymius in his panoply had neuer more cause to name the Armenians 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is Idolaters to the crosse for their grosse and superstitious worshipping of it then we haue generally to count and call the Romanists flat idolaters for their behauiour towards it and other images also Thus then hoping by this that I haue said cōcerning this point that not onely thou maiest see goodreader when and how this point of popery first came in but how and by whom it hath beene oppugned but consequently also that the Romish church is herein destitute both of scripture fathers consent of Christian regions and al that she bragges of let vs see if wee can shew the like concerning the other point of forced single life vpō the clergy which she holds to be so necessary and holy an ordinance as that by no meanes without deadly sin it may be transgressed Euen in this as in the former if we search the monumentes of antiquity well we shal finde that they haue very auncient heretiques to be their first fathers leaders For the Tacianists commonly cald Encratites of their abstinence from mariage certaine other thinges who began about the yeare one hundred forty two were great condemners of mariage as appeares in Aug. ad Quodvult Deum in Epiphanius writing of them Heresi 46. After them spronge vp the Manichees who in like manner were enemies to mariage but not so vniuersally as the former for they permitted it to others and restraine onely their clergy from it whō they calde their elect as August witnesseth of them Epist 74. but indeed as many as
least after this that Priests had wiues begat childrē as other men And none of any learning are ignorant that al these sturs about this matter notwitstanding Christiā Bishops ministers in al other quarters of the world vnder the other Patriarches frō the beginning vnto this day haue bene are maried beget childrē also after they are entred into the ministry This also is as wel knowen of the learned that not onely particular learned men holy fathers as I noted before others but also sūdry coūcels where multitudes of such fathers haue met haue writen decreed to withstād contrary the going forward of this Antichristiā ordināce Yea they thēselues are not ignorāt hereof as it appears by sundry things set downe both in their text and glosse dist 81.84 elswhere in their Canon law For in the 28. distinctiō is noted a decree of the councell of Gangra which was about 300. yeares after Christ whereby he is by the authority of that councell anathematized that shall for his mariage put difference betwixt a maried ministers ministry and another and therefore abstaine from communicating with him and there also is cited a canon fathered of the Apostles whereby he is accursed that puts away his wife for Religion sake And in the sixth generall councell held at Constantinople these thinges are remembred with other and therefore there it was decreed Tom. Conc. 2. cap. 13. that he shall be deposed that after that should go about to debar Priests or deacons either of mariage or of the vse of their wiues yea after ordination and there also further it was enacted that if they themselues being ordred should vnder pretence of piety put away their wiues that they shall therefore be excommunicate and yet this was 680. yeares after Christ Moreouer Hierom speaking of his time saith that then plurum sacerdotes habebant matrimonia that is most Priestes were maried aduersus Iouinianum libro 1. Tertullian himselfe was a maried man as it appeareth by his writing to his wife To holde that ministers may not mary Ignatius ad Philadelphenses saith comes of the deuill And Dionysius Corinthiacus writing to the Gnosians persuades their Bishop Pinitus not to impose an vnnecessary too heauy a burden of single life or chastity vpon the brethren as we reade in Euseb lib. 4. cap. 22. Lastly S. Bernard though he liued about the yeare 1120. which was a very corrupt time for this matter yet euen he in his sixty sixth sermon vppon the Canticles thus far concerning this point hath plainely written Take from the church honourable matrimonie the bed vndefiled saith he and thou fillest it with concubine keepers with incestuous persons with such as haue vncleane issues of seede flowing from them with wantons with Sodomites and all kind of vncleane persons But when the bright euidence of these allegations seeme to make them somewhat to bold downe their heads yet I know they haue this shift for their last refuge that they deny not but that such as haue been maried or at that presēt haue wiues may enter into the ministry but thē they must be such as voluntary will vow and performe a single life and so thence forth abstaine insomuch that they are so in loue with this shift that they say write as is to be seen in the Rhemish notes vpō the new testamēt that Pauls canons touching the being of such the husbāds of one wife are so to be vnderstood not so as that thē or after once he is minister he may continue the office of a husband towardes his wife and confidently they dare and doe brag that we neuer read of any other that maried or got children after they entred once into holy orders Wherin first the practise of the Greeke Church all other Churches but these in these parts of the world directly crosses them Againe let Pauls words in deliuering of his canons cōcerning the qualities that ministers ought to haue bee well considered and any man shall see that it is absurd so to vnderstād him that he requires that they should be so qualified only de praeterito for the time past not rather especially for the time present and to come Seeing they are so cōfident in this that none maried euer or begot children after they were ministers let them tell mee of whom Peter had his daughter Petronella of whō their owne Croniclcs speake so much had he her not of a lawful wife And if it be true that we read that in the persecutiō vnder Domitian she was of such florishing yeares that then Flaccus a noble Roman county would haue had her to wife the time betwixt that and Peters entring vpon his Apostleship being at the least fifty fiue yeares after Christ by all likelihoode shee was got after hee was an Apostle And well might it bee for it being euident that Christ had taught them that vnlesse it were for fornication no man should forsake his wife Math. 19. and therefore that Paul hath noted that the brethren of the Lord and Cephas did cary vp and downe in the execution of their Apostleshippes their wiues being also conuerted aswell as themselues and therefore sisters 1. Cor. 7. taking maintenance for themselues then as they went that sometime in that perigrinatiō of theirs in the discharge of their office this Petronella was borne For it being euidēt by the Gospell of Math. 8. that Peter had a wife and by their owne stories that shee was a liue a little before his death at Rome with him that he counted not his Apostleship fornicatiō that neither he would leaue his wiues cōpany take other women with him nor that she came to Rome rather in the cōpany of other men thē of him her owne husband too too grosse and absurd is it with them to thinke that he the rest of the Apostles that had wiues forsooke their wiues quite and went vp and downe rather after the popish maner accompanied with other women Their translating and peruerting the order of Paules words a woman a sister will not defend their interpretation for he placeth his wordes thus a sister a wife where in the later place it is absurd the Greek word being that which sometime standeth generally for a woman sometime for such a woman as is also a wife to take it in the former sence for then therein there were a needlesse tautology for there is no sister but shee is a woman also But to leaue Peter with his wife and daughter what can they say to Socrates who in his fift booke and twentieth one Chapter of his story writeth that omnes praesbyteri illustres that is all renouned ministers in the East and Bishops also if they will no law compelling them may obstaine from their wiues for not a fewe of them whiles they are Bishops beget childrē of their lawfull wiues Historiae tripartitae lib. 9. ca. 38. Againe the 10. canon of the Ancyran
what they list Their doctrine also of satisfaction for sinne in that they allow sprinkling of holy water going on pilgrimage doing of this outwarde trifling thing or that which easily may be done of any carnal man to be good satisfactory meane◠to answere God withal for their sinnes how can it be otherwise but the people measuring and iudging of sinne according therevnto must needs thinke sinne that can be satisfied for so easily and lightly to be but a sleight matter Their doctrine also of eare shrist is likewise a meanes to acquaint their single priestes with all the lewd huswiues in their parishees and so an acquainting of them with the trickes waies how and the parties with whom they may commit filthinesse Yea their forced single life as experience notoriously hath taught hath infected earth and aire with monstrous vncleannesse of the flesh both inward and outward naturall vnnaturall with infinite murders of poore infantes the better still to hide their iniquity And while they teach that simple fornication is not so ill in their clergy as to vse a lawfull wife that the first inwarde motions to sinne or concupiscence not consented vnto be no sinnes that manie sinnes euen for their owne littlenes are veniall not worthy of damnation they make men secure for these and so the fitter bolder to go on in the rest Their doctrine and practise of dispēsations and pardons for money for clergy and people almost for any thing is and must needs be the roote and fountaine of wonderful many abhominations Their doctrine of sanctuaries priuiledges exemptiōs and immunities of their clergy others are very great occasions of sinne and impiety Lastly the ambition pride tyranny pompe gluttony wantonnes and insatiable couetousnes of their Popes Cardinals and Prelats makes al whom they bewich with their religion to thinke that they are not to be blamed if in these things they imitate then their holy fathers marueilously are they incouraged to continue and spend their daies in these in al other sinnes when as by their doctrine they are put in hope if they die beleeuing blindly as the church beleeues providing of their goods which they must needs leaue behind them somwhat liberally that masses dirges trentals may be saied and song for them and that such other things done as thē their ghostly father shal appoint them that in the end they shall doe well enough how loosely and lewdly soeuer otherwise they liued before The second point also is many waies cleare and apparent For first by their doctrine of their Popes supremacy where it is in the full force Emperours Kings Queenes are thereby made and marde at their pleasure they must not thinke scorne of most base seruice and subiection to them their subiectes shall be bound to pay them tribute no longer or to yeelde them any maner of other duety further then they list yea it shall be lawfull for them to conspire against their naturall Princes by any meanes they can to deuise to depriue thē both of their liues and kingdome if so the Pope cōmaund them Nay not onely vpon the Popes cōmandement and pardon shall this of them bee counted lawfull and meritorious but if any of his ovvne motion vndertake such a thing of a deuout minde to his holmes and religion the incouragement and absolution of euery Masse-priest shall be sufficient to iustifie the action and to cause the party that hath done it to be canonized a Saint for his labour Further for the establishing of this archpiller of popery their Popes supremacy Princes are depriued of the election of their Prelates and they are by oath so obliged to the Pope and so freed from the iurisdiction of their lawfull Prince that they may and dare beard their Princes and howsoeuer they wil take liberty to enioy great promotions vnder them yet in effect they are no subiectes vnto them but rather altogither stand at the deuotion of this forraine Potentate Secondly by the pretended right of this their supremacy for the better maintenaunce of the swelling pompe thereof to the great weakning of Christian states they haue taken vpon thē and yet doe when they may be suffred by their annates Peeter-pence Paul-fees first-fruits tenths lones oppressions taxations impositions and infinite such other deuises sauoring of nothing else but of insatiable couetousnes to cōuey away the treasure riches and wealth of euery cuntrey from out of it to Rome And by this their supremacy they haue first weakned after rent in two lastly brought in effect to nothing the glorious Roman Empire that so the better they might haue roome to grow vp in and that for their sins in the iustice of God Christendome might the more easily become a pray to the Turke Thirdly by the deuise of their Auricular Cōfession they haue and may haue most perfect intelligence of the secretes of all states where they haue to doe then which can any thing in these outward things bee more dangerous to the safe and good estate of Princes Fourthly by the force of single life they haue caused priuies and ponds such other by corners to swallowe vp and destroy in euery Christian kingdome where they ruled as many infants as might being growen to be men haue beene able in the fielde to defend there Prince and cuntrey against all the enemies thereof vvhich vvhat a vveakning to Christian Princes and their kingdomes it hath beene vvho seeth not These thinges therefore considered it is to bee marueiled that any Christian state can or will tolerate either them or their religion in it And as for the last point that so their religion might fit the title appointed it by the Spirit of God that is that indeede it might proue it selfe to be 2. Thess 2. a very mistery of iniquity euen throughout vnder the shevv of holinesse and deuotion they alvvaies haue hid nourished and maintained grosse iniquity and haue aymed at nothing more then at their owne pompe and aduantage For their doctrines of free-vvill of mans ablenesse to keepe and ouer keepe the law of God of merits satisfaction for our selues or others aliue or dead of the mediation of Saints or Angels and their doctrines that the Pope cannot erre that he hath such supremacy as they giue him and that the scriptures haue their sence and authority from his allowance thereof howsoeuer they paint these things with the goodly shewes of care to prouoke and incourage men to good works and with deuotion to Saint Peter the mother church yet who is so simple or weake sighted but that through these colours hee may and doth discerne God his sonne Christ blasphemously robbed of that which is their right man to be occasioned to swell with a conceyt of his owne ability and that the final marke that all this tēds vnto is by the selling of other folkes ouerplus merits and satisfactions vnder and in the names of pardons to enrich the Pope
polluted prophaned Vriah the priest ioyned with the king in the erection of a new altar in coÌ„mitting abhominatioÌ„ before the Lord though he were one that had his calling by the ordinary way of succession of priests froÌ„ AaroÌ„ Againe though Ezechiah succeeding Ahaz for his time did notably rid the Church of the abhominatioÌ„s wherw t his father had defiled it yet wheÌ„ he was dead his son Manasses his son Amon brought it to as il an estate as euer it was in so much that froÌ„ the beginning of Manasses raign vnto the 18 of Iosiahs the booke of the law of the Lord was lost which was wel nigh 80 years for theÌ„ it is noted that Hilkiâ—h the priest found it 2. King 22. In Manasses his time it is euideÌ„t Idolatry opeÌ„ly preuailed the whole Synagogue saue a few prophets their folowers erred If we proceed during the 70 years captiuity in Babylon what visible appareÌ„t shew of any successioÌ„ of Bishops pastors caÌ„ we finde the ioined togither in the exercise of Gods religioÌ„ Was not their teÌ„ple then destroied consequently did not the publick exercise of their religioÌ„ which for the most part was tied theruÌ„to cease as it was prophesied by Hosea Ca. 3. therfore lameÌ„ted by Ieremy Ca. 3. LaÌ„ WheÌ„ Christ our sauiour caÌ„e into the world surely then God had his Church For it is a most certaine article of our faith that since it begaÌ„ it hath neuer ceased nor neuer shal yet what visible succession of pastors and priests was there theÌ„ in possession of souÌ„o religioÌ„ Had not they as euideÌ„tly appeareth by the stories writeÌ„ by the EuaÌ„gelists that were in the visible personal succession corrupted the doctrine of the Messias both concerning his person and office so that they were the deadliest enemies that he had But you wil say perhaps that though these thinges were thus in the Church in the time of the olde Testament yet it may not be so in the Church now in the time of the new And why so Howsoeuer otherwise there be some differeÌ„ce betwixt the Church then and now in respect of the more cleare reuelation now then then of the doctrine of the Messias whereof that Heb. 8.6 is by soÌ„e vnderstood yet in this respect you shal neuer be able by the word writeÌ„ or any true story to proue any necessary difference vnles it be that God had tied then his promises to that peculier people his seruice in great part to their temple and that he had ordained amoÌ„gst them a priesthood to continue by natural succession so that the Church theÌ„ had more right to plead visible succession then now In the meane time thus much is gained by these stories of the Church in the time of the olde testament that this outward clearenes visible succession you talke of is not an inseparable note of the true Church for therby we haue seene it seperated ofteÌ„times from it And vnles men were peeuishly disposed to maintaine a manifest vntruth conuicted so to be both by Scripture and experieÌ„ce you would see grauÌ„t that it is as separable from the Church now since Christ For is it not plainely prophesied 2. Thess 2. that there should come a departing from the faith by the comming of Antichrist and that very great and effectual And least you should babishly foolishly as many of you doe vnderstand this of an Antichrist that towards the end of the world should come and raigne seduce men 3 yeares an halfe marke that here Paul telleth vs in his time that this mistery of iniquity did already worke which it did in that there were false Apostles there that taught men to seeke iustification partly by faith partly by the workes of the law as it appeareth by the Epistle to the GalathiaÌ„s weigh that he attributeth vnto him such things as could not be brought to passe in that space lastly consider that he teacheth that though he should be detected and fal into a consuÌ„ptioÌ„ by the Spirit of Gods mouth yet he should not be fully abolished before Christs second comming All which make it most euident that Paul here prophecieth of a longer lasting Antichristianity which should trouble the Church theÌ„ yours of 3 years an halfe continuaÌ„ce But least yet this notwitstaÌ„ding you should imagine that the fulfilling of this prophecy your faÌ„sie of perpetual clearnes vniuersality of the church may staÌ„d alwaies togither S. Iohn in his ReuelatioÌ„ describing as you al must coÌ„fesse the state of the Church seeth her in a vision by the great 7 headed DragoÌ„ driuen into the wildernes and there glad to be fed for a season Chap. 12. And he seeth the Babilonish harlot the true patterne of your Romish prelacy by which harlot he most notably setteth forth Antichrist his kingdome committing fornication not with a fewe but with the Kings and inhabitants of the earth not ruling or sitting ouer a few but as the Angel there expoundeth the waters whereon she was seene to sit people multitudes natioÌ„s toÌ„gues Apoc. 17 Al which laied togither doe plainly shew that after Christ there should grow such a defection froÌ„ the fayth in the world by the means of Antichrist that during the florishing of his kingdome the true Church and her pastours should be driuen into the wildernes and so for that time should haue in comparison of Antichrists followers small visibility and shew in the eies of the world Which we say and constantly are able to defend hath beene verified in the late florishing of your Romish Prelats Besides view the stories of the church the Cronicles of times and you shal be driuen to confesse that though the Church hath had alwaies her two witnesses Re. 11 to testifie to the trueth that they neuer could be extinguished quite by TyraÌ„ts yet she hath often beene driuen from carying any great shewe of visibility in the world For certaine marble pillers at Salmantike erected in the hill of S. Bartholomew doe witnes that Diocletian Iouius and Maximinianus Herculeus imagined when they caused them to bee erected that they then had quite layed the honour of Christ for euer in the dust and as it should seeme by the circumscriptions that they thereupon caused to bee engraued they set theÌ„ vp euen of purpose to brag that they had like great conquerers quite extinguished as they terme it the superstitioÌ„ of Christ Which they would neuer haue done if either they or their fauorites had then seene a visible succession of Bishops and pastours amongst them and had knowen their names and where to haue found them If wee go on to the time that the Arrians most florished wee shall read that the Emperour Constantius sayed to Liberius Quota pars es tu orbis terrarum qui solus facis cum homine scelerato meaning Athanasius Ecclesiast Hist Theodoreti lib. 2. cap 16. whereby it appeareth that then the
quickelie forsake your popery and ioyne with vs. to follow the interpretation of the ancient Doctours standing to that that euer the Catholicke Church hath taught not to turne at euery blast Vpon this matter one * Lib. con haer Vincentius Lyrinēsis who florished aboue a thousand yeares agone he saith thus If anie mā perchāce demaund saying Since that the rules of the Scripture are certaine b Yea and more then sufficient saieth he Marke he graunts the rules of the scripture to be sufficient how is then that true which your Andradius saieth the greatest part is left to tradition not writen sufficient of thēselues And what neede haue we thē of the authority of the Church He answereth For that saieth he that the secrets misteries of the holy Scriptures are such that euery mā doeth not vnderstand thē interprete thē after one sort but that of one place this mā that mā shal seeme to maintaine their opinions being cleane cōtrary one to another so that looke how many mē so many interpretations For one way it is interpreted by Nestorius another way by Arrius another way by Sabellius so forth according to diuers heresies that haue risen from time to time And therefore it is necessary for the knowledge of the trueth among so many errours to draw the c And for these reasons we allow of Vincentius rule vnderstanding as he doth that by the right line and rule of interpreting is ment that sence which hath the consent of the Prophets Apostles and Catholique Church for no other sence we giue of the Scriptures right line of the Propheticall Apostolical interpretatiō according to the rule true sense of the Catholicke Church This is the learned opinion of this anciēt father Vincētius Lyrinensis The III. Chapter IN the 3 Chapter you say as little to the purpose as in the second For vnderstanding by the Church the true catholique Church indeede and not your late Synagogue of Rome falsely by you so named because neither it nor the faith thereof is vniuersall neither in respect of time nor person whatsoeuer you haue writen therein we confesse to be most true and sure we are it maketh more for vs then for you For we neuer denied the ministry of the true Church to be needefull according to Vincētius rule to finde out the true sence of the scriptures and certaine we are that we are farre better able to iustifie our interpretations thereby then you are yours and he liuing a 1000. years agoe as you write we boldely affirme that you shall neuer bee able to proue that the Catholicke Church and her doctours and pastours before or in his time taught the errours and heresies now taught by yours for the which wee account yours Antichristian And yet as in the former Chapter most beggerly you begged this principle that your doctrine is the ancient Catholicke faith so here in this you begge this also that your Church is the true and vndoubted Catholicke Church But you must vnderstand howsoeuer your owne frendes will giue you at your first asking both these that yet we will graunt you neither of them both And therefore writing as you would seeme purposely against vs you should not thus miserably alwaies haue begged them at our handes but by sound and iust proofe at least haue endeuoured to proue that you had iust right thereunto and then with some more honestie and credit might you haue gone on in this supposall that they are yours This also you must vnderstand that when it is in question which is the trueth of Religion yea euen in the fundamentall points as indeede it is betwixt you and vs it is alwaies also in question which is the Church of Christ For as both parts imagine they haue the trueth so will they perswade themselues that they are the true Church Your frendes also and all others must bee aduertised that it is no newe thing for damnable heretiques to brag much both of the truth of the titles of the Church of the doctours thereof least through too much simplicity they think streight that you haue al these things on your side because you haue them so much and so often in your mouthes For as Cyprian writeth Epist ad Iubaianum de baptizandis haereticis the Nouations after the fashion of apes challenged vnto themselues the name of the Church and all other they called heretiques And we reade that in the time of Arius Macedonius and Donatus these heretiques accounted themselues the onely Christians and that the true Christians indeede were counted by them Homousians Macarians Caesarians and Caecilianists So doeth Tertullian de Prescrip aduersus haereticos testify that the heretiques did in his time So did the Donatists saieth August Contra Epist Parm lib. 2. cap. 1. and Epist 161. and he writeth Cōtra Epist Fundamenti cap. 4. that amongst the Manichees there was great brags of the trueth Bernard also in his 66. sermon vpon the Cāticles speaking against certaine filthy heretiques that condemned mariage and superstitiously absteined from meates yet saieth that they gloried that they alone were the body of Christ bragging also that they were the successours of the Apostles and Apostolicke the Church of Christ And indeede wee finde nothing more vsuall with the ancient hereticks then to boast that they had the Church and Catholique trueth on their sides And very vsuall we finde it also with them to stand much vpon fathers in the defence of themselues and their heresies For it appeareth in the Councell of Calcedon the 1. Action that Eutiches bragged that he had reade Cyprian and Athanasius yea that then and there he confidently saied for his defence that he had so learned of his ancient predecessours and that he had beene baptized in that faith had liued and hoped to die in it And we reade in the 4. Action of the same councell that Carosus an Eutichian heretique saied stoutly I beleeue thus according to the exposition of the 318. fathers and so was I baptised Dioscorus also in the 1. Act of that Councell cried and saied I haue the testimonies of the holy fathers Athanasius Gregorie and Cyrill on my side I go not from them in anie thing I am cast out with the fathers I defend the fathers doctrines I haue their testimonies euen set downe in their bookes for me And as we reade in August contra Cresconium the Donatist 2. booke cap. 23. and in his 4. booke cap. 17. he cited for himselfe Cyprian and it seemeth that Maximinus the heretique against whom August wrote vsed to alleadge for his defence the councell of Ariminum and therefore Augustine saieth vnto him Neither will I obiect the councell of Nice against thee neither oughtest thou to obiect that of Ariminum against me 3. booke 14. chap. What a vaine thing is it these things considered for you and your fellowes then to carie away the simple vnder the bare titles of Catholique trueth Catholique Church
thing that we holde teach and preach as much as you You doe therfore but abuse your reader in going about to make him beleeue that we reiect your Bishops onely for their lewde liues whereas the thing especially that we condemne both you and them for is your Antichristian doctrine It is well that when you haue saied what you can for your line of Popes yet the consideration of the oft interruptiōs of their succession by schismes and otherwise you are glad in the ende to giue vs this note that when you talke of succession of Bishops and pastours you meane not onely them but all other Bishops and pastours of your Church in whom the succession hath beene continued whensoeuer it was interrupted in the other For hereby in effect you doe acknowledge that you meane not nor thinke it wisedome to leane too much to the successiō of them least they let your building fall Wherein I preferre you yet before Stapleton in that herein the trueth of the manifold interruptions of their succession seemeth to haue preuailed more with you then with him For he writing against Doctor Fulke of this matter of succession though hee saieth hee will not holde succession in the same places and sees to haue continued generally yet in this particuler line of Popes onely hee thinketh that safely he may You are also to be commended for acknowledging dissentions to haue beene betwixt your Popes and Antipopes themselues and in leauing them without defēce for their lewd liues ambition and negligence euen to answere for themselues For indeede as it cannot be denied but that these thinges most monstrously haue beene found in very many of them so you could not haue had any honesty in smothing of their faults Yet you go some thing to far in saying that their dissentiōs were not preiudiciall to the vnity of faith held before For how could it be that one part of the world ioyning with the Pope the rest with his Antipope or Antipopes it being an article now of your Catholique faith Boniface 8. de maioritate obed Cap. 1. vnder paine of damnation to be beleeued that al soules must submit themselues to your Pope as to the Supreame head of the Church but that these for many yeares togither banning cursing each others faction thereby the vnity of faith was not onlie troubled but maruellously broken The IX Chapter NOw seeing that we haue yeelded you a full accompt of our vocation to the ministery if we may be so bold I thinke it is no great presumption to demande the like of yours a Caluin neuer thus reasoned therefore you play the papist with him that is you bely him For euen as Caluin hath heretofore called vpon vs to haue vs proue that we are the Children of God or otherwise he would absolutelie affirme that God cannot be called the authour of our vocation to the ministery We say likewise that if you doe not shew the like of yours you shal giue vs leaue although it be against your willes to saie that yours commeth not from God but from the procurement of his aduersarie Tertullian b Wee know hee spoke against such heretiques as you Papists bee who as you know aboue 1200 yeares agone speaking against such as you are in his booke de praescrip haeret doeth write these words Edant origines Ecclesiarum suarum euoluent ordinem Episcoporum suorum per successiones abinitio decurrētem Hoc enim modo Ecclesiae Apostolicae cursus suos deferunt sicut Romanorum Clementem Episcopum à Petro ordinatum id proinde vtique coeteri exhibeant quos ab Apostolis in Episcopalibus constitutos Apostolico semine radices habeant c Here either is ignorance or wilfull corruptiō of this authours meaning dris◠You see well by these wordes how that Tertullian doeth continue with the succession of the Pastours the which he doeth affirme to be necessarie saying that you and such as you are ought not to be receiued to the ministerie of the Church nor to teach the people contrary to the ecclesiatical order except that you shew the antiquitie of your table And it is necessary saieth he that you reckon your Pastours and Bishops by order how they haue succeeded one after another for this is the waie that the Churches doe maintaine their right The saied Tertulliā doth ground his similitude vpon the custome of the Ciuil gouernance For when that these that are Princes or Lords doe suruaie their lands the subiects are bound to shew what landes they holde of them setting it all forth by accompt shewing by what tenure they hold their copie and whether it be demean◠or free holde comming by inheritance or bought they ought likewise to name him that had it before and by their owne title to ouerthrowe all other persons that maie make claime vnto it a Not yet nor euer will you be able According to this patterne and order we haue giuen you accompt of our inheritāce although we were not bound to it setting before your eies the similitude of Salomon by whom our Sauiour Iesus Christ is represented That same Salomon doeth giue the sheepe that runnes astraie counsaile to set his Tabernacle by the Tabernacle of the Shepheards to follow their flocke vntill he come to the place where Christ was nailed on the Crosse at noon daies The which counsell as the most certaine according to Tertullian his opinion we doe follow thinking it sufficient to keepe vs firmely in the right and ancient Catholicke faith For we that are the sheep of Christ doe follow as touching our religion the steppes that our fathers led before vs and as it were going vp vpon the ladder of Iacob Gen. 28. b Whatsoeuer you meane you can neuer deduce your religion so high for it hath beene a patching together long euen till of very late daies we mount by degree and degree I meane from yeare to yeare from age to age vntill that we come to S. Saturim S. Denice S. Marcial S Gratian which were those that did first teach the Catholicke faith in Tholose in Paris and to those of Guyenna and Lorayne and so consequently to all the rest of the Saintes that first did teach the Catholicke faith through all Christendome whom wee doe call in iudgement before God to defende that faith which they haue giuen vs from hand to hand they maie cal vpon the Apostles which sent them the Apostles maie direct themselues to Christ who by the mouth of his most louing Apostle doeth command vs to continue in that that was taught vs at the beginning 1. Iohn 2. And so wee shall continue and rest with the Father the Sonne and the holie Ghost And if any bodie doeth come to teach vs anie other doctrine then that which hath bene taught vs at the beginning I doe not saie c No take heede of that for the booke of the Scriptures is your bane writen in booke but
consequent thereof which is eating of Christes precious bodie with the filthy mouthes of vnbeleeuers bee absurd the antecedent thereof must also bee absurde Howbeit because you shall not say that we are vnwilling to yeelde you thorowly an account why we deny your reall presence vnderstand you yet further we are mooued so to doe because your doctrine of traÌ„substantiation the onely vpholder thereof and the doctrine it selfe as you holde it bringeth in without all reason such an interpretation and construction of the wordes of the instruction of this Sacrament as taketh away the analogie betweene the signes and the thinges whereof they are signes ouerthroweth the nature of a Sacrament in anihilating or otherwise abandoning the outward part which scripture and al antiquity necessarily require to continue to the constitution of a Sacrament as bringeth in many monstrous absurdities and needelesse miracles contrary both to the true faith of Christes manhoode and good maners abhorring both by nature and expresse warrant of the scripture from eating and drinking of mans flesh and bloud couered or vncouered and as lastly inferreth an eating drinking of Christ by the mouthes of the wicked and vnbeleeuers as wel as of beleeuers Which eating of Christ with the bodily mouth neither standeth with the doctrine of the word which teacheth no such bodily commition of our boâ—ies with Christs therefore seeing the sacraments are but confirmations of that which is taught in the word cannot or may not be taught herein nor yet with the nature of the couenaÌ„t communion with christ which is spirituall belongeth only to the faithful therefore only mâ—st be offered sealed ratified in this sacrament to them And yet for alâ—â—â—s I would not haue you to imagine that we deny al kinde of reall preseÌ„ce in this sacrament of Christs body bloud For we doe most constaÌ„tly teach with the ancient fathers that in this sacrament though by means thereof there be a change in name vse honour and estimation in the outward elements yet they remaine stil to be fed on with the mouth of the body and that when by occasion of that which is done by the outward elements the communicaÌ„t calleth thankfully to remembraÌ„ce christs death and beleeueth that his body was as certainly broken for him â— his bloud shed as there he seeth the bread brokeÌ„ wine poured out and both deliuered vnto him that thereby his ful perfect saluatioÌ„ was absolutely wrought theÌ„ by this mouth of his soule faith he as certainly though after a spiritual vnspeakeable maner feedeth vpoÌ„ christs very broken body bloudshed groweth through the working of the spirit to a coÌ„munion therw t as by the mouth of his body he feedeth vpoÌ„ the outward elements so by the force of nature hath them vnited with his nature And marueil not that faith can doth make the body brokeÌ„ and bloud shed of Christ which was now done 1500. yeares ago yet liuely truly present For it can make things spoken taught in the word though done neuer so long ago things absent to be present And therefore wheÌ„ Paul wrote to the Galat though christ long before had beene crucified and was ascended yet by the meanes of the word sacraments on the one side ministred amongst theÌ„ and of their faith on the other side he saith that Christ was eueÌ„ crucified amoÌ„gst theÌ„ Gal. 3. wherein as Chrysostom noteth vpoÌ„ that place his meaning was to shew the streÌ„gth of faith which is able to see things though far away that by the eies of faith Christs death was more clearly perfectly seene then it was of many that were present at it saw all that was done You seeme in this your doctrine and for the defence thereof to be great aduancers of Gods omnipotencie But in Christes time I pray you tell me whither they that beleeued that Christ could fulfill their desire though absent or they that thought he must be locally present or els it would not be had the greater faith in his omnipotencie I am sure you will say the faith of the former was the stronger and that they therein shewed themselues better perswaded of Christes almightinesse then the later for the euidence of the matter will enforce you to confesse thus much Then to applie this to this present matter the thing that both you and wee desire is truely to bee fedde with the bodie and bloud of Christ to eternall life whither then doe wee or you indeede beleeue his omnipotencie better we that say and beleeue that he can and doeth feede vs herewith and vnite vs and himselfe together in the vse of this sacrament hee tarrying still in heauen according to the Scriptures or you that imagine that hee cannot doe it vnlesse hee creepe into your mouthes vnder the formes of bread and wine Nay whatsoeuer you talke of his omnipotencie this argueth that your faith is too too weake therein in that you must haue such a reall presence of him as you imagine or else you thinke it will not serue your turne You will graunt that distance of place betwixt heade and feet betwixt man and wife father and sonne breaketh not nor hindreth the vnion that nature hath made betweene them what weaknes of faith then were it to thinke that Christ our head our husbaÌ„d our father must be locally conioined with vs or els the vnion betwixt him and vs cannot be perfected Assure your selues if beeing at this table you will secke him by faith where hee is in heauen and not as you doe in the formes of bread and wine whereunto only your owne fansie hath tied him by your faith you shall so reach and apprehend him and hee by his spirit will so embrace you that there was neuer head more surely by vienes sinewes arteries and other helps of nature tied vnto the inferiour parts nor husband to wife nor father to sonne more fast and surely linked and knit by the bonds of naturall vnion then he will vnite himselfe vnto you For the defence of your reall presence and for the auoiding of many absurdities concerning Christs manhoode that thereby you are fallen into you talke much of the state of Christes glorified body But alas doe you not see that whatsoeuer you talke thereof is quite besides the purpose For this is not a Sacrament of his glorified bodie but of his crucified bodie not of the coniunction of his bodie and bloud but of the separation of the one from the other and therefore Christ in the institution called not bread and wine simply his bodie and bloud but his bodie broken and bloud shed and gaue the bread a sacrament of the one and the wine a part from the bread a Sacrament of the other Whereupon it is euident that here we haue to doe with his passible body with his bodie broken his bloud shed vpon the crosse and not with the state of his glorified and impassible body and therefore vnlesse
by the Scripture ill vnderstood for * Mat. 10. 16. our Sauiour doth say that for to be his disciples we must forsake and renounce all that we haue in testimony of the which the first Christians at Ierusalem did sell all their possessions and presented the money of them to the Apostles to giue to the poore And that that is worse the Adamites did maintaine a greater errour then this and more brutish the which is that al mens wiues should be common and they did cal this the true Gospel and the pure word of God alleaging for it the first and eight of Genelis where God doeth say Increase and multiplie and replenish the earth If you doe say that this is a foolish opinion I confesse it to be so but that i This is false that Church condemneth popery for this heresie Zisca Hus and their followers coÌ„demned before you very Church which hath condemned this heresie of theirs doeth likewise condemne yours When the deuill determined to fight with Christ he thought he could no wise aide himselfe so wel as with the holy scripture perswading him that the best way for him to shew himselfe to be the sonne of God was to breake his necke casting himselfe downe from the pinnacle of the Temple And he did alleadge this text saying * Psal 90. as it is writen That the Angels of God should so preserue him that he should not hurt his foote against the stones following that Dauid saied And if I should go about to write al the places of Scripture that the heretikes haue alleaged to maintaine their horrible errours I thinke surely I might make a bigger booke then the Bible The XXIII Chapter YF a O you are your crafts master a man may see in wrong alleaging the Scriptures that the sonne doe hate the father or the father the sonne or if the wife doe hate the husband or the husband the wife they may take the word of God ill vnderstood to defend their cause for he doeth commaunde vs that we shall hate those that are nearest vnto vs as vnder the paine of not entring into Paradise if we doe contrarie But this ought to be vnderstoode that we ought not to prefer the loue of anie creature how neare soeuer they be to vs before the loue of God In like maner he that will saie that we should not eat of the bloud of those beasts that are smoothered he may soone alleadge the scripture for it which doeth saie that at the couÌ„cel that the Apostles held at HierusaleÌ„ beeing present the holie Ghost this ordinance was made as we read in the. 15. Chapter of the Actes And if that one should take in hand to bring al the places of scripture that the heretikes haue alleaged to maintaine their opinions I dare boldlie saie that he shal finde it an endlesse piece of worke For among so great a number of false Prophets there hath bene verie few or almost none but they haue sought to maintaine their opinions by Scripture drawing the places as it were by violence to a depraued and a corrupt sense beeing this the maner of interpreting of the Scriptures called at this daie the pure word of God by those that haue professed to be as long as they liue enemies to the trueth a You should haue saied in his first come 2 booke The learned and auncient Doctour Epiphanius in his first booke against heresies doeth alleage as touching this matter a verie familiar example saying that if some good Caruer had made the image of a king adorned with manie Iewels and precious stones and that another should come afterward and should take the same Iewels and precious stones and make vvith them the image of a Fox or a Dogge and that he should saie beholde here is the Image of a king would not euerie bodie laugh him to scorne and saie that he did it in mockerie or els that he were mad Yes surelie for although they bee the same Iewels and that verie stuffe wherewith was made the Image of the king yet because that this other vvorkeman hath taken them awaie and fashioned them after another sorte it ought no more to bee called the image of a king but the picture of a Fox or a Dogge Euen thus is it vvith the holie Scriptures vvhich were left vs by the Apostles and Prophetes for to paint in rich colours the Image of the great king of glorie b This is euen your owâ—e dealing with the scripture vp downe when you would confirme Popery therewith but seeing that you take those precious stones from the image of this king and doe appropriate them vnto the Image of a Foxe making them serue to cloake your heresies vvithal it ought no more to be called the worde of God nor the holie Scripture but the word of men false doctrine And therefore if you vvill haue it to beare the first name you must set it in the first estate that is to saie c This is certaine and therefore scripture trust interpret scripture and not your Romish spirit that it ought to be interpreted by him that did first indite it It is not by the will of man saieth S. Peter Epist 2. Ca. 1. That the prophecy was brought but by the inspiration of the holy Ghost that holie persons haue spoken c. I know wel that you attribute the intelligence of the scripture vnto your Sinagogue d This we doe not take vpoÌ„ vs. But how shal we beleeue that the holy Ghost doeth dwel more in you theÌ„ in al the vniuersal Church which hath continued froÌ„ the passion of Christ vntil this time I pray doe so much as answere me if you my masters be the lodging of the holie Ghost e Whither our alleaging of theÌ„ agree or not with the holie Ghost it selfe speaking in the scriptures we are contented to let alwaies the true Church of Christ iudge where did he make his residence before ye were borne I know already your answer the which is In the hearts of the faithful And where were those faithful Marie where the holy Ghost was Answer thus stil ye shal be sure that ye shal not be ouertakeÌ„ for it is as good as to play Handie dandie soye shal accomplish the olde Prouerbe the which sayeth It is as farre from Douer to Caleis as from Caleis to Douer But to the ende that all the world maie see the great hazarde of eternal damnation that those run into that are so readie to beleeue euerie bodie thinking that they are assured of their health forasmuch as those that seduce them saie behold there is the scripture it is the pure word of God the verie gospel I wil set forth some heresies that haue beene in times past condemned by the catholicke Church the which notwithstaÌ„ding haue bene a This you can neuer doe aswel yea more largelie confirmed by Scripture then you can confirme anie of yours
disgrace Canus may tearme them a dead iudge which can neither heare nor speake in his Chapter booke before named in like sorte others in the following of this comparison with your good allowance shall may call them incken diuinity what else they list as we ofteÌ„ haue shewed you and them the onely rest vpon them scripture men or men whose Religion and diuinity lieth in rags skins of beasts because of such things the bookes are made wherein they are conteined Many beastly blasphemous speeches and assertions thus tending to the disgrace of the Canonicall scriptures any man that list may finde LyndaÌ„s three first bookes of his panoply Hosius booke de expresso Dei verbo his triple dialogue Cusans 2. Epist ad Bohemos 7. Andradius Florebellê° Priereas almost all your famous writers of these later daies euery where full oft where they haue any occasion to weaken those arguments that we vse against you either for that you are in your positions wherein we dissent froÌ„ you without warrant of scripture or that they are contrary to scripture And wheÌ„ we vrge you that of what credit soeuer the tradition of the church be that you so pleade for yet if it be the word of God aswel as the scripture then it must needes be that it agreeth with the scripture is not contrary vnto it for as much as God is alwaies one selfesame and therfore alwaies agreeing with himselfe therefore presse you with that which by the wordes circuÌ„stances of the text of the scripture we are sure is the true sence thereof therfore the vndoubted word of God theÌ„ you euen the greatest of you are driueÌ„ to these poore base shifts to cry out with Cardinal Hosius in his 4. booke against BreÌ„tius in his booke de expresso Dei verbo before named that scripture as it is alleaged of Catholiques it is the word of God but as it is alleadged of heretiques the expresse word of the Deuill or as he saieth also in the later booke if any haue the expositioÌ„ of the RomaÌ„ church of any place of scripture although he neither knowe nor vnderstand whither how it agreeth with the words of the scripture yet he hath the very word of God And when all comes to all though sometime you would make the pore simple people beleeue that in expounding the scriptures you will follow the vniforme consent of holy fathers and councels yet both this Cardinall Hosius in his triple dialogue and Cardinal Cusan in his 2. Epist ad Bohemos tell vs teach vs plainely to vnderstaÌ„d you that you meane no other sence theÌ„ agreeth with the present practise of the RomaÌ„ church when thaâ— sence is giueÌ„ not once blushing to confesse that according to the variablenes of the fashioÌ„ and practise of that church the scriptures must be vnderstood and therefore Cusan coÌ„mends that obedience that is yeelded thereunto simply without reasoning as the Oxe or Asse obeys his master For whatsoeuer sometimes you talke of Popes not erring of the not erring of generall couÌ„cels or of the authority of the fathers none that haue any thing craueiled in tracing you into your starting holes wheÌ„ otherwise you see you must needs be pinched takeÌ„ to your shaÌ„e but he easily seeth that in trueth none of these no nor all these togither with the scriptures themselues are of any credit and authority with you against the present practise of your RomaÌ„ Church One father or the present Pope if he speake hold with that though all the fathers beside are of another minde thogh neuer so many of his predecessors held otherwise yet farewell they in this case you will and must preferre this one before all the other These things being most true notoriously knowen to all men that with any indifferency haue traueiled in the controuersies betwixt you vs euery one hath cause to see howsoeuer somtimes you would seeme to yeeld some thing to the authority of the scriptures that you are at a flat point that neither they nor any authority els of maÌ„ or men old or new shall or may retaine any sence of force against the present practise and receaued opinioÌ„ of your sinagogue And as loÌ„g as you are at this point whatsoeuer you haue said of heretiques abusing of scripture as though you were the only men that had care rightly to vse them vnderstaÌ„d them euery simple body may see that of all men you are they by the variablenes of your Romish church practise which are most likely to make a nose of waxe and leaden rule both of the letter of the scriptures and sence thereof And therefore whereas in your 23. c. you boldly affirme that to draw the scriptures by violeÌ„ce into a wroÌ„g sence is the maner of interpreting the scriptures called at this day the pure word by those that haue professed as long as they liue to be enemies to the trueth most fitly may be vnderstoode of your selues for you are so in loue with the present practise fashion and opinion of your RomaÌ„ church that though that vary neuer so often euen so ofteÌ„ must the scriptures will they nill they vary and alter their sense Howbeit I am not ignoraÌ„t but that in so writing you meant vs though I am sure you shall neuer be able to proue vs either to haue professed at all any enmity with the truth or so to vse to wrest the scriptures But because this is a matter of great importaÌ„ce and therfore such as caÌ„not be determined either by your yea or our nay it shal not be amisse vpoÌ„ this occasioÌ„ to coÌ„sider what souÌ„d rules of interpreting there be that by the same it may be tried whither your interpreting of the scriptures or ours deserue thus to be called a drawing of the scriptures by violence to a corrupt sence The vniforme consent of doctors you would ofteÌ„ seeme as I haue saied in this case to make reckoning of as of a souÌ„d and Apostolicke rule of interpreting them by but this is but for a fashioÌ„ for you haue giuen vs doe daily manifest proofes that wheÌ„ but one or two against all the rest of theÌ„ hold with your curraÌ„t and present practise of your Roman church that now is that that one or two of them ouer wey with you al the rest And besides if this were a necessary rule then none could be interpreters of the scriptures but those that had all or the most part of the doctours to peruse few or none then ancient doctors writers there haue beene so many their names are so vnknowen to most could be sure when they had the consent of the most and best on their side and so neuer should be sure of the sence and for many places very little or nothing oftentimes haue they writen Though therefore we will not shunne the trial of our interpretations with you by this rule yet we account
spirit and whosoeuer amongst vs come vnto the scriptures trusting to their owne wittes and so puft vp with ignorance as you speake we vtterly mislike thē as much as you But that you shoulde giue forth this sentence of yours in such general tearmes against simple poore men amongst vs that trauell in the Scriptures you had neither reason nor charity in so doing Commonly such rash iudging of others proceedeth from a minde euen so qualified as you charge theirs to be and from no other fountaine And who so considereth their grosse ignorance and errors that remaine in your great Clerkes euerie where notwithstanding these scriptures what other learning soeuer they pretend he hath most iust occasion thereby to iudge that either they study the scriptures verie little or els that they come to them with the mindes you talke of And if you woulde tell vs plainelie what you meane by humility of spirit which in this case you speake of wee should soone perceiue that thereby you vnderstand not true Christian humilitie which through a base conceite that it breedeth in the owner stirreth him vp the more earnestlie to craue assistance of Gods spirit and by diligent search of the Scriptures and more carefull vse of all good meanes to compasse the right vnderstanding of them but a popish and slauish kinde of humilitie which must breede in the owner such a seruile depending vpon your Popes will and Churches tradition for the sence thereof as that he admit no sence at al of them though thrust vpon him neuer so plainelie by the euidence of the place that will not fullie agree therewith Which breedeth in all of your side either a flat giuing ouer all reading of them or els such a reading of them as that they must bring a sence vnto them from the tradition of your Church and so enforce that vpon them whither they will or no for howsoeuer the scripture speake the Churches tradition maie not be contraried This is your humblenes of spirit when you haue brought Gods spirit speaking in the Scriptures in subiection vnto your popish spirit but this is a proud humilitie and a cursed meekenes You doe but malitiouslie slander vs in that you would perswade your reader that how bad and simple soeuer the man were before assoone as a bishop hath made him minister we say streight hee hath the holy Ghost and no Scripture is to harde for him if hee can with all say the Lorde and rayle vpon the Pope c. And yet I must tell you that wee thinke it not vnlawfull but very necessarie to paint out your Pope with the colours that are due vnto him that men may the better beware of him and yet wee count that no rayling but wee neither tie the holie Ghost to the imposition of the Bishops handes nor place anie such matter in these things here mentioned by you as you woulde leade your reader to imagine we doe You know we might as easily and sute I am with far more trueth saie that with you how lewd vnlearned soeuer the man bee yet when one of your bishops hath priested him thē if he can cal the Pope most holie father speake reuerētly of your Cardinals bishops other prelates saie fi◠on these heretiques these Lutherans and Zuinglians he is straight a famous and worthie catholique Priest with you But wheras amongst other things you obiect that as a fault to their disgrace that they say the ancient doctours were men and that the generall Councels haue erred it is but to discredit them with the simple For you know that the learned knowe that both fathers and councels haue erred that you your owne selues when they write or determine any thing which you like not wil and doe as plainelie as we acknowledge the same For which point let a man read Andrad first booke writen in defence of the Tridentine faith and but what Pighius hath writen of purpose for such cause to discredit the sixt and seuenth Sinods and hee shall most plainelie perceiue that councels are of no further credit with you then they shall be found to say nothing to your mislike But to make it cleare that it is no absurditie to say or hold that coūcels and fathers may erre and haue erred it is wel knowen that as the first Nicean councell and sundry after accordingly decreed a right against the Arrians for the trueth of Christs manhood so the Tyrian the Sirmiense the Ariminense the Sebucian and the Antiochē councels determined with the Arrians against the Nicean and the trueth The second councel of Nice Act. 5. agreed that Angels and mens soules are bodily and circumscriptible and yet this councel notwithstanding this grosse errour was confirmed by the 6 councel held at Constantinople which Pope Agatho hath allowed for a general councell The 3. councell of Carthage cap. 23. determined that all praiers at the altar should onelie be made to the father The 2 councell of Ephesus was on Eutyches the heretiques side and decreed for him Your late councels of Constance and Basil decreed a dangerous errour in your conceit I am sure whē they decreed the authoritie of the general councell to be aboue the Popes For your holy father could not be quiet vntill he got the contrary decreed in other two Synods at Ferraria and Florence And in the 6 of Constantinople mentioned before there was a perilous heresie agreed on I am sure in your iudgement Canonthirty six against your Popes title namelie that the Bishops of Constantinople shoulde enioy and haue equall priuiledges with them of Rome See also the twenty two Chapter of the Mileuitan councell Ca. the 26. of the 3 councell at Carthage and the 92 Chapter of the African the Epistles of the same to Boniface Caelestine and you shal finde plaine direct Canōs against the Supremacy that now your Popes callēge You were best therfore not onely to be cōtēt that we say general coūcels may er but to learne to say so aswel as we your selues al the sort of you or els you see you are not frēds to your holy father You may doe it I warrāt you without any discredit For August a great doctor in his 2. booke 3. Chap against the Donatists saieth that the very general councels are often corrected the former by the later as often as by triall experience the thing is opened that before was shut And therfore disputing against Maximinus li. 3. ca. 14. he calleth him frō the coūcels to the touchstōe of the scriptures And as for the doctors the same Aug. being one of the chiefe of thē in his 2. booke 2. Chap. against Cresconius plainly cōfesseth that the iudges or doctors of the Church as being mē are oftē deceiued therfore in his 2 booke of one baptisme he writeth that we may argue doubt of the writings of any bishop whosoeuer he be but we may not so doe of the holy scriptures If he had
of those men then we shall be this other way Seeing therefore Christ tooke this way himselfe both with the deuil himselfe with his chaplaines both to confute their errours erroneous interpretations to confirme the trueth by searching the scriptures and neither he nor his Apostles sent vs either by word or their example to the high Priests then or vnto any other for resolutioÌ„ of the church or trueth this way as the best only way we thinke all ChristiaÌ„s bound to take And in so doing let not any man despaire but that through the goodnes of God he shal be inabled to trie the spirits to discerne who amongst all other alleadge the scriptures soundliest For we see it is the fashion of our God to reueile his trueth and the misteries thereof to those that be his how simple soeuer when he doeth conceale hide them from the great men of the world Mat. 11.1 Cor. 1. But you say If this may and must be atteined by the grace of the holy ghost obteined of the lord by faithfull inuocatioÌ„ of his name how chanceth it that since Luther for no ancienter you say though it be neuer so false our ReligioÌ„ is you haue not obteined that holy ghost to ende your hoat contentions and debates amoÌ„gst your selues that so you might be at vnity yet amoÌ„gst your selues This is spoken as though it must needes follow that either we haue not faithfully praied vnto God for his spirit or els if we haue that then of necessity there neither could be nor would be any difference of opinions and contentions at all amongst vs. If you be of this mind then the manifold differences schismes sects varieties of opinions that haue beene and yet are in your church as I haue noted cap. 4. argueth in your Logicke that your church neuer yet praied faithfully and effectually for the holy ghost But indeede your argumeÌ„t is naught For it appeareth Ioh. 17. that Christ himselfe praied for vnity amongst his Apostles and all that should beleeue their doctrine no doubt of it he was heard in that he praied for Heb. 5.7 and obteined for his heaueÌ„ly father would deny him nothing and yet you haue heard cap 4. after this there were varieties of opinions and hoate contentions betwixt some of them that doubtles of both parts were within the compasse of Christes praier And therefore that praier of Christ and the prayers of his seruants made to that ende are to be vnderstoode to take place and to be effectuall in that there is so much vnity amongst the true members of the Church atteined thereby as is sufficient to holde them togither in the communion of saints which is if they ioyne togither in holding the foundation and fundamentall points of Religion though otherwise there be differences and hâ—at contentions sometimes amongst them And it may not be thought as you seeme to take it that such prayers either are not effectually made or els there must followe thereupon simply an vniuersall accorde in all things For then Christes prayer was not effectuall in that after Paul and Barnabas were at aâ—arre Act. 15. c. That vnity that you speake of the Church may striue for here but she is not to make her account to atteine vnto it before she come in heauen and bee maried to her husband there And so much vnity there is betwixt vs and those whom we count members of Christes Church with vs as that though there be some variety of opinions and therefore also contention but too much yet we ioyne so togither here in the foundation and other most principal points of our Religion that we doubt not but the Lord hath heard our praiers and graunted vs the spirit of vnity so farre forth as that one daie we hope in heauen all to ioine together in perfect vnity notwithstanding the iarres that otherwise in the meane time to trie vs withall be fouÌ„d amongst vs. You know we praie daily that Gods will may be done in earth as it is in heauen and so doe you or you are to blame and herein we hope we are heard and yet simply we neuer found nor shall as long as the world standeth the will of God so done here as it is in heauen For continually there is disobedieÌ„ce to his will here in one thing or other one way or other euen amongst the best but in that in such measure as God seeth this fit to be obteined here he granteth it we are notwithstanding to thinke our prayers effectuall Christ himselfe praied Iohn 17.15 to deliuer his church from euill and yet though that prayer was heard in that God so farre forth preserueth his church from euill as he seeth it expedient for the state thereof here we see daily that many are the troubles and euils that the poore church is encombred withall And therefore to conclude you must vnderstaÌ„d that the faithfull praiers of Gods saints are to be accounted effectuall though the thing they pray for be not obteined in full perfection here as long as so much here is obteined as the Lorde seeth to bee necessary and conuenient for the estate of his seruantes So that notwithstanding the differences amongst vs you might and would if you had the grace ioyne rather with vs in our Religion then continue in that wherein you are the professours whereof are torne a sunder with moe and greater differences then the churches that receaue ours are howsoeuer you deceiue the simple with the vizarde of vnity in that you ioyne together vnder your Pope against the trueth The XXVIII Chapter NOw to turne againe to our former purpose if it were so that of our owne free deliberation wee were minded to forsake our Catholique Religion a If you should be of no Religion whiles all of one were full of one mindâ— you must die a nullifidian I warrant you the iniurious disputations that you vse among your selues were sufficieÌ„t to make vs to suspeÌ„d our iudgemeÌ„t without leauing to any of both parties vntill that we could see more resolute in your opinioÌ„s being the bardest matter the knowing in what cuÌ„try the residence should be kept for that matter b Where wheÌ„ nay our absolute sentence iâ— as our bookes doe testifie and we proue it out of the ancient fathers that your doctrine in this point is but new a very young â—â—ng in comparison of that you would here haue it seeme You haue giueÌ„ absolute senteÌ„ce saying that the Catholique church hath erred euen froÌ„ the Apostles time vnto this present in praying to God for the soules of those that are deade constituted in a third place called Purgatorie You should mee thinke at the least allowe a third place although it bee not that to receaue the soules of those whose consciences you haue so troubled that they know now neither what is their faith nor of what ReligioÌ„ they should be c Such vâ—setled and vnstable persons for all your foolish
these should come these haue beene and will be for the triall who they be indeede that thirst after the trueth and will cleaue vnto it But in taking this contrary way whatsoeuer you say not wee but you leade men and that with a strong hand to Atheisme And so much the more folly you shew in making these collections of yours of these controuersies amongst vs seeing amongst your selues i◠were an easie matter to put you in remembrance of a number as hoat and feircely followed contentions as this yet euer was amōgst vs. Some thing to make this appeare I haue noted Chapter the 4. but seeing you haue neuer done with this obiection the better to make your vanity therin appeare let the reader further vnderstand that your Popes themselues amongst themselues one against another haue further proceeded in malitious contention then euer the Lutherans or Protestāts did For as Platina writeth when Pope long after him for Boniface the 6. his immediate successour was Pope but 25. daies caried such hatred towards him and his proceedings that he caused his decrees to be abrogated and as other Historiographers write of him he caused him to be taken out of his graue and solemnly to be in a councel disgraded which when he had done therewith not content he cut of his two fingers that he vsed to consecrate withall and cast them into the riuer Tibris But Romanus the first succeeding him ratified againe Formosus doings and abrogated and disanulled all Stephens proceedings against him Whose course Theodorus the 2 and especially Iohn the 10 followed in iustifying and condemning Stephens doinges against him in another councel at Rauenna consisting of seuenty foure bishops Howbeit Sergius the 3. the 4 Pope after taketh Stephens part against Formosus and that so hoatly as that once againe though he were the ninth Pope from Formosus he causeth his body to be taken vp out of his graue disgradeth him againe beheadeth him cutteth of the 3 fingers that were left him of his right hand and threw his body and the peeces thereof despitefully into Tyber About the yeare 1354 as Godfridus de Fontanis writeth there grew and burst out marueilous hoate contentions betwixt the Friers of Dominicke and Francis in Fraunce about their priuiledges and the prelates of France and the Schollers of Paris insomuch that there were publicke and bitter Sermons made by one against another the one side excommunicated another And Matth. Paris reporteth that there was by the prelates of France and the doctours of Paris nine erronious conclusions which by his report were of matters of great weight in religion laied to the charge of the Gray-friers for the which they excommunicated them and for which there was hoat stirre on both sides About the yeare 1470. there was a notorious contention also betwixt the Dominicke friers and the Minorites the one side following Scotus and the other Aquinas whither Mary was conceiued in originall sinne or no the Minorites with Scotus holding the negatiue and the other with Aquinas the affirmatiue which in the yeare 1509 grew so great that it troubled and deuided al these Westerne partes of the world notwithstanding that Pope Sixtus the 4 had giuen out his bull in the yeare 1576. on the Minorites side Insomuch that some of the Dominicke friers were burned at Berne for their deuises to maintaine their faction as witnesseth both Pencer and Munster And who knoweth not of the 24. great schismes at least which haue bene in the Romish Church during which times some of them lasting verie long their Church was torne into so many factions as there were Popes and antipopes Amongst which factions and their heads there grewe sometimes warres indeed and when they were quietest railing processes and excommunications one of them against the other in most bitter maner as the stories of those times doe testifie were vsual amongst them But what should I rūne any further into this matter Seeing it is a thing most certaine and whereof no man can be ignorant that hath taken any paine in reading Stories that the Church of Rome for all her brag of vnitie these late yeares hath beene so ful of hoate and fierie contentions as that neuer a country neuer an order neuer a Cloister or Church amongst them but it hath had most tumultuous contentions at one time or other both within themselues and with others And therefore if this contention amongst vs be cause sufficient of such conclusions and dangerous consequents as you set downe in this chapter what my all these bee which we know haue bene amongst you and of like whereunto we know your Church is yet ful And that more is certain it is that howsoeuer cōfidently you write that there haue bene excommunications betwixt the Caluinists and the Lutherans one against another about this matter though with griefe we must confesse that it may be that both partes haue exceeded their bounds but to far you make here a greater shew of it thē there is iust cause For whatsoeuer certaine of the Lutherans as you tearme them haue done in excommunicating the other yet I thinke you can neuer proue that Caluin or any of his iudgement in this point haue proceeded to far against any of them But if they had why should this seeme so straunge a thing vnto you For you know I am sure that Victor once bishop of Rome did excommunicate certaine bishops in his time of the east Church because they would not ioyne with him and the west Church in the time of obseruing Easter And that Stephanus another bishop of Rome went as far against Cyprian for his opinion of rebaptizing you cannot be ignorant Againe you know that there are but few of the Lutherans that pursue this controuersie so hoately the greater part being contented to deale in it more brotherly and quietly and that the hoatest of them also haue beene so thorowly answered to all their obiections as that there beginneth to be greater hope of vnity herein ere it be long then you well like of or then shal come to passe indeed if you can let it But alas though it hath bene far more especially of the one side then any waie can be iustified yet what hath bene their bitternes and heat of either side at any time to be compared with the bannings and cursings fightings and brawlings murderings manglings and all barbarous extremities that the malitious and spiteful heart of man can deuise that haue beene amongst your most holy fathers the Popes of Rome themselues and their fauourers followers at sundry times and for many yeares togither Howsoeuer as long as both parts agree in the fundamental pointes of Christiā religion and in the other most necessary and fruitful documents concerning this sacrament as clearely appeareth by a booke lately set forth of the Harmony of our confessions and the controuersie lieth onely about the maner of the reall presence and eating with the mouth which mouth-eating as all sides confesse may bee and
fathers as you herein take it for granted on your side For in trueth you haue none of these on your sides but the onely grounds of your religion are your owne priuate and singular interpretations traditions of men without warrant either from the Scriptures indeed soundly vnderstood or from generall Councels or ancient fathers that are worthy to bee of credit in Gods Church For as we haue made appeare in infinite discourses against you al these are farre more strong on our side then with you And therfore you rather are the fooles that seeme wiser theÌ„ all these in your owne conceit and so labour to draw vs from the ancient catholique faith and Christs true Church by your corrupt glosses allegations of these by your vaine vncertaine traditions of mortal men Wherof let the reader take for a tast these few proofes amoÌ„gst infinite others vsed by vs. The Scripture with vs teacheth iustification freely by faith in Christ without workes Rom. 3.24.25 Ephes 2.8.9 and you condeÌ„ne theÌ„ as heretiques that teach so The scriptures with vs teach that Christs offering himselfe once for al hath made perfect all them that are sanctified Heb. 10.14 and you coÌ„trarily teach that they must be perfected by the iteration of his sacrifice in your masse by a number of other things done by themselues and others for them The Scriptures with vs teach that Christ is ascended into heauen Coloss 3.1 Act. 1.9 c. and that the heauens must containe him vntill the restitution of al things Act. 3.21 and you contrarily wil haue him as oft as you consecrate to come downe to hide himselfe vnder the formes of bread and wine The scriptures with vs say concerning the cup in the Sacrament to all Christians rightly prepared Drinke yee all of this Matth. 26.22 and you say it is heresie to holde that the lay people must drinke thereof To proceed a little further the same Scripture in the 2. Commandement Exod. 20.4 forbiddeth as we doe both the making and worshipping of Images to represent God the father the sonne or the holy Ghost withal and you allow both these The scriptures prefer as we doe the speaking of fiue words in the Church that may bee vnderstoode before ten thousand in a tongue not vnderstoode 1. Cor. 14.19 and your Church as it appeareth in hauing all your seruice in lat in preferreth fiue words spoken there iâ— an vnknowen tongue before ten thousand spoken in the vulgar tongue of the people to their edification Lastly the Scriptures as we doe account mariage honourable among al men in al estates and the mariage bed vndefiled Heb. 13.4 insomuch that they aduouch the forbidding of it though vnder pretence of holines to bee a doctrine of Deuils 1. Tim. 4.1.2.3 yet you condemne it in your priestes as a filthie life In like maner is there a plaine contrariety betwixt your religion and the decrees of ancient and general councels In my answere to your 17. Chapter I haue shewed you already that the ancient famous first general Councel of Nice in the 6. Canon thereof is directly against that preheminence that now you giue to the Bishop of Rome ouer all Churches There also you haue heard the councell of Gangra pronounce you accursed for your doctrine against the mariage of ministers I haue also shewed you before that the 6. generall councell holden at Constantinople in the 36. Decree hath flatly determined against the principall article of your religion your Popes supremacy in determining that the Bishop there should haue equal priuiledges with your Pope or Bishop of Rome The councels also of Constance and Basil against your receiued opinion now preferred the authority of a generall Councel before the authority of your Pope And certaine it is that in the time of Charles the great there was a councel called at Franckeforde whereat the Bishops of France Germany Italie were assembled about the year as Regin writeth in his 2 booke 794 where the making and worshipping of Images allowed of by the false Synode of the Greekes as he tearmeth it was condemned And Hickmaâ—e Archbishop of Rheames writing against another bishop of that 〈◊〉 Chap. 20. somewhat about these times calleth this a general couÌ„cel called by the wil coÌ„maÌ„demeÌ„t of the Pope Emperor Charles witnesseth that not onely there the false Synode of the Greeks that made for Images was confuted reiected but also a great booke made thereof then sent to Rome As for fathers and ancieÌ„t doctors I haue plentifully shewed to be against you already for the sufficiency authority of the Scriptures Chap. 3. 5. against your real presence Chap. 11. against your doctrine of IustificatioÌ„ other points of your religion Chap. 16. And it were as easie a matter to shew theÌ„ so to be against you with vs in almost al the rest of the pointes in controuersie betwixt vs. At least this most confidently I doe aduouch that for 600. yeares you shall neuer proue them al nor halfe to be on your side in the third part of the questions betwixt you and vs and therfore you doe but too shamefully deceiue the simple people in this case with a shew bragge of that with you are of al other furthest froÌ„ The XXX Chapter OVr Sauiour Christ did approue his vocation after another sort then you doe yours a But in another place you know he saieth that the word that he had spokâ—n should iudge them at the last day Iohn 12. Search saieth * Ioh. 5. he the scriptures for they heare witnes of me he doeth not say that they are Iudges as you say for you wil haue none other arbitrator but the word of God You know that they are two different thinges to beare witnes and to be a Iudge and yet the scriptures of the old Testament doe coÌ„taine not only the verity of the doctrine of our Sauiour Christ but therewithal the very sufficient probation of his person to teach vs the true word of God to ouerthrowe destroy the whole kingdome of Sathan as it is plainely seene by those that list to looke vpon the oracles of the olde patriarches Prophets It is writeÌ„ in the third of Gen. that God saied vnto the womaÌ„ that her seede should breake downe the serpeÌ„ts head And likewise in the saied * Gen. cap. 12.15.19.22 24. booke there is mentioÌ„ made of this diuine seede of Abraham in the 15. 53. Chapters of Esay in the 2. Psalme Dauid doeth talke of it And in like maner Daniel Moses AaroÌ„ withal the rest of the prophets in their sacrifices haue very perfectly painted the coÌ„ming passioÌ„ of our Sauiour Moses left writeÌ„ in the prophecy of Iacob that the Messias should come when the roial scepter and the administration of it should be taken from the line of Iuda Daniel was not content to say as the rest that he should come b There
pulled downe and they cast out and those that did offer sacrifice vnto theÌ„ grieuously punished then saieth he the iustice is not certaine through the pâ—ssion or for hauing suffered death but the death and passion is glorious when it is for the sustaining of the true faith And therefore saieth he our sauiour because he would not haue the simple deceiued vnder this colour of trueth he did not onely say blessed are those that suffer but hee added for iustice But this can in no wise be attributed vnto those heretiques that suffer to seperate the vnion and concorde of the Catholique church c In that booke it appears these Donatists did indeed complaine and yet brag of their persecutioÌ„s but thus much I finde not there testified against them or of theÌ„ In his booke de haeresibus ad quod vult Deum he writeth to this effect of them And in his booke de vnitate Ecclesiae contra Epistolam Petiliani he doeth write that the Donatists which were a sect of heretiques that raigned in his time to confirme their doctrine they did not attende that others should put them to death but they did cast them selues downe from high places others did burne themselues in the fire to be honoured after their death as Martyrs and that is more they did threaten men if they would not kill them d He writes in that epistle no such thing you had the worst lucke in quoting of your testimonies that euer had aâ—y for 3. for one you cite wrâ—ng S. Cyprian in like maner doeth write in the first booke of his Epistles in the first Epistle that though an heretique suffer death for Christ that doeth not confirme him as a Martyr but that his death is the very punishment of his errourâ— and that he cannot go to heauen which is the mansion of the humble for seeing that he doeth seperate himselfe froÌ„ the house of peace which is the church yee know well of what church he doeth speake that he cannot be receaued into heaueÌ„ c. All those that haue writen the histories of the BohemiaÌ„s doe say that in the time of e Zischâ— was a famouâ— souldier captain but minister he was none one Zischa a martial minister of the heresie of the Heborits or Hussites there were a certaine sect of heretiques called Adamites like vnto the olde heresie of the Nicholaites for they did saie as these doe that mens wiues should bee common and they vvent all naked euery one taking the woman hee liked best whom hee did carie vnto their minister and before him hee did saie the holie ghost doeth inspire me to lie with this person then the saied reuerent father did giue him his blessing saying Increase and multiplie and so they went awaie This aboue named Zischa although hee had done a number of wicked deedes yet hee determined to abolish and take awaie this sect f And therefore popish traytours that are executed amongst vâ— for high treason though they seeme to take their death neuer so patiently we lawfully couÌ„â— call tâ—aitours though you â—anonize them for Saints and so he caused two women to be burnt for this abhomination the which two notwithstanding the torment of the fire did sing and giue thankes to God for that it had pleased him to permit them to die for so holy so iust a quarrell Did not Michael Seruet who was once master Caluins dearling rather desire to suffer at Geneua then he would confesse that Christ was God and yet notwithstanding his great patience or to saie the trueth diuilish obstinacy cannot be sufficient to make him a Martyr nor to perswade you to beleeue his doctrine g What need all these seing none of vs euer stande vpon the bare sufferings of meÌ„ no more then you you should yet haue named the places where these things are writen and not thus haue sent vs to seeke we cannot tell where There is a certaine minister of the Lutherans called Ioachim Westphall who in a worke of his doeth mocke at Caluin who did vaunt that within these fiue years aboue an hundred had suffered death to sustaine the Gospell of Geneua and he doeth answere him at large prouing that the sect and doctrine of the saied place ought not to bee approued for the multitude of false martyrs for the Anabaptists whoÌ„ he doeth iustly coÌ„deÌ„ne haue had of their sect a great many more for in lesse theÌ„ three years there haue suffered a great number more then euer there did suffer of Caluinists in fifteene And to conclude this matter the saied Westphal doeth say that the deuill hath his Martyrs euen as well as God with whom like a good sergeant he doeth march giuing the vauÌ„tward vnto the martyrs of the Caluinists that haue suffered at Geneua h The more to blame are they if they should say so but though heat of contentioÌ„ caused Westphalê° to write so bitterly I thinke very few will ioyne with him in this iudgemeÌ„t sure I am they whom you cal Caluinists doe not iudge so of them because of that 1. Co. â— v. 15 So that if one demaund of the Lutherans whither go those that die in the Religion of Caluin of Beza or of the Anabaptists they saie to the Diuell And if one demande of the Caluinists in like maner whither go the Anabaptists and the Lutherans they saie likewise to the Diuell And who would put the like question to the Anabaptists I am assured they would saie at the others to the Diuell For my part I beleeue you I assure you all three i This argueth a most diuelish and profane spirit in the writer And seeing that yee agree so well that one serue for an others harbenger we were very fooles if wee should stay your passage but let you go all to the Diuell for company for I thinke if you were all gone our debates would cease and hell would be so full that the deuill would long for no more The XXXI Chapter YOu neede not to tell vs that Augustine and Chrysostome haue taught that it is not the death but the cause that maketh a martyr For we know that to be a most certaine trueth and the generall doctrine of all good writers both olde and new and therefore you might haue spared your paines bestowed in the proofe of this And therefore most willingly wee acknowledge as Christ hath taught vs that onely they are blessed martyrs that suffer for righteousnes sake Mat. 5. and none to be martyrs howe patientlie soeuer they seeme to suffer their deathes that by for an il cause either in life or doctrine And yet we are not ignorant that many haue died in lewde and for lewd opinions who yet haue seemed to die willingly and cherefully and therefore wee deny not but that it may be true that some such wicked women of that beastlie heresie of the Adamites were put to death in Zischaes time in Bohemia died as you write and
to escape this 1000. more such contrarieties betwixt your doctrin and the reueiled wil of God in the scriptures but by subtle sophistrie fonde quiddities and distinctions deuised of your owne heades without all warrant and ground frō thēce which in matters and questions of diuinity is intollerable These and such like contrarieties betwixt the doctrine of your Popes and Prelates and the trueth taught in the scriptures we hauing oft obserued and tolde them of and yet finding them most obstinatly to persist in the same hath caused vs rather in respect of their hereticall doctrine to call them wolues thē in respect of their negligence onely heretiques And for this same cause seeing all yours are thus infected you wish vs in vaine to ioyne some of the best of them with some of the best of ours to reforme things amisse in both For there is no hope of any good reformation at all where any such as yours haue any thing to doe therein And seeing it is and hath beene so cōmon a thing with vs as you cannot be ignorant if you haue reade anie of our bookes writen against you to denie that you continue in the doctrine which was preached vnto you at the first yea seeing you all know that we count your synagogue Antichristian for her manifold Apostasies from the ancient doctrine of Christ and his Apostles taught first vnto the Romans I wonder with what face or forehead you could write as you do in the cōclusion of this Chapter that we our selues cannot denie if we will confesse the trueth but that you haue continued in the doctrine that was first preached vnto you And therefore not onely for your lewdnes of life and negligent sheepherds bad sheepe doeth your kingdome decay as you would insinuate but especially for this also that in the points we striue with you about you are quite gone from the ancient sound Catholique faith and religion first taught by Christ and his Apostles and receiued and continued many yeares in the ancient Roman church others The only way therefore for you is to preuēt an vtter vniuersall subuersion and confusion first to returne againe from your new Antichristian Religiō doctrine to the true ancient Catholique faith taught in the scriptures and thē to amend your maners according to the direction of the same The XXXVII Chapter ALL our ancient doctours a This is but an arrogant false brag as we are able to proue come to particulars when you will as well of the Greeke as of the Latine church since the Apostles time and the Christians of all the foure quarters of the world which were in those daies b Christians haue alwaies vowed and promised lawful thinges onely to God they haue had a care to make those vowes and promises discreetly of such things as they saw he had made possible vnto thē which things are neglected in the vowes that I feare you most mean haue made their promises and vowes vnto God euen as we doe now and at their baptisme they did vse euen those verie ceremonies that we doe with the selfesame exorcismes adiurations and annoyntings that we doe vse in our Catholique church which you call Papisticall and to proue this true we will bring the saied ancient doctours as witnesses if it please you to reade the c Neuer man had worse hap in quoting so few places as is euident in the answer to this Chapter places that we will quote Tertullian who liued verie neere the Apostles time doeth make mention in his booke that he intituled De resurrectione carnis of the annointing vsed at the Baptisme and of the renouncing the Deuill all his pompe In his booke de coronâ militis he doeth speake of the third dipping vnder the water in the name of the father the sonne and the holy ghost S. Cyprian the Martyr who was aboue 1300. yeares agone doeth write in the second volume of his Epistles Epist 12. how they did vse in his time to giue the holy Chrisme vnto the children that were baptised Origen in his twelfth Homilie and in diuerse other places of his workes doeth make mention of the renouncing of the Deuill at ones baptisme of the making of the signe of the crosse vpon childrens faces when they were christened S. Iohn Chrysostome in his 12. Homilie vpon the first Epistle to the Corinthians cap. 4. And in his first Homilie vpon the first Chapter to the Ephesians he doeth make mention of the saied renunciation made from the Deuill and all his workes Reade I praie if it be your pleasure S. Aug. in Psal 31. Aug. li 15. contra Iulia. Pelag. li. 1. ca. 2. Item de nuptiis cōcupiscentia lib. 1. cap. 20. in Ioannem tract 33. in Canonicam Ioannis tract 3. tractat 6. Et de eccle dogmat cap. 31. De Simbolo lib. 1. cap. 7. lib. 2. cap. 11. Et libro de his qui initiantur sacris Cap. 1. Basilius de Spiritu Sancto cap. 15. 27. Arnobius in Psalm 75. All these doctours which were aboue a thousand yeares agone if you reade in them the places that heere I haue quoted you shall finde that they did vse at the Baptisme of their children those verie ceremonies that wee doe now vse and that you doe so mislike And as for confession before the receiuing of the Sacrament our sauiour Christ doeth teach vs that the Ecclesiasticall ministers haue authoritie to binde and forgiue sinnes Saint Cyprian in his fifth Sermon de lapsis Origen vpon the thirtie and seuenth Psalm and in Leuit. Hom. 2. Saint Augustine libro 2. de visitatione infirmorum Cap. 4. Saint Cyril libro 12. in Iohannem Cap. 56. Saint Hierom in Ecclesiast Cap. 10. All these doctours according to the Scriptures in these places doe confirme auriculer confession And as for praying vnto the Saintes in Paradise to helpe vs vvith their praiers read Origen in his third Homilie vpō the Cāticles and in his 2. book vpō Iob his eight book in Eccl. Reade Chrysostom in his eight Homilie vpon the Epistle to the Ephesians the fourth Chapter and S. Augustine in his twentie booke against Faustus the one and twenty Chapter and Saint Hierom against Vigilantius All these make mention of the praying vnto the Saintes And for praying for the dead reade Tertullian in his booke De Monogonia and in his booke De corona militis and Saint Cyprian ad plebem Furnensem and in the first booke of his Epistles and Origen in Hieremiam Homil. 12. Item in Epist ad Rom. libro 8. cap. 11. Reade Chrysostome in his thirde Homilie vpon the Epistle of Saint Paul to the Philippians and S. Augustine lib. 2. de gen against the Manichees cap. 20. in the Encheridion ad Laurent cap. 110. Item libro de cura pro mortuis agenda All these doctours whose workes haue continued these 1200. yeares doe teach vs all these thinges that now we doe obserue the which
they left in writtng by the ordinance of God to confute such heretiques as you are The XXXVII Chapter AT last it seemeth by your paines taken in this Chapter you be thought your selfe that forasmuch as hitherto onelie in bare and naked wordes you had vaunted and bragged your Religion to be the ancient Religion that it was needefull for you euē for shame before you made a full end of your booke to yeeld vs some reasons and grounds or at least some shew colour of your so lewd and bold boasting And therefore here now at last to that ende you haue mustered the bare names of a few ancient fathers very prouidently leauing your Readers to the examining of your quotations amōgst whom not one of an hundreth you knew either for lacke of skill or will leasure or bookes could and would turne to the places in the authours themselues You thought belike your credit to bee such that they must needes beleeue that you cite thē truely and faithfully and that because you so roundly haue huddled them togither that therefore also out of all question they spake and wrotefully for you in the points you alleadge them for What smal cause there is either for you to looke thus to bee trusted or for any to yeelde you such credit herein wee shall see anone when wee come to the examining of your quotations In the meane time what ment you by this thus onely when all commeth to al to countenance these 4 points your Ceremonies in baptisme confession before the sacrament praiers to the Saints departed and praier for the dead Are these the greatest matters of your religion in question Or doeth it especially depend vpon these 4 and the coūtenancing of these Or was your prouision ready for no more that but once in all your booke you seeming to set downe the authorities whereupon you ground your religion you would take the paines to go no further then to these 4 points Indeed in your next Chapter you excuse your selfe and say that you would haue gone likewise on to confirme the rest but for being tedious to your reader Truely he is much beholden to you for your discreet kindnes towards him that haue not spared to be tedious vnto him in al the rest of your book in troubling of him with such a number of proud brags of the antiquity and catholikenes of al your religion as you haue and with many needles and friuolous long discourses besides and now when you came to the point indeed which of all other was most materiall and wherein both for his satisfaction and your owne credit it stood you vpon most to enlarge your selfe then thus to shift him of with as good as nothing bearing him yet in hand that but for his ease you both could and would haue saied inough This is a common tricke amongst you thus to cozen and abuse your simple readers to weary them with things needles and then to slip ouer with some such shift as this matters most needful Wel concerning that which either you haue saied here for these 4 points or that which after you pretend if you had list you could haue easily saied for the rest this I would haue the reader diligently to note and marke that but for two places vainely alleaged to proue your confession that you neither haue alleaged any testimony of scripture at all for the proofe of these nor yet that you so much as say after you could or would for the rest Which argueth that euen in your owne conscience the best ground and countenance that your popish religion hath either in these points or in the rest is but from earth and not from heauen from men and not from the holy ghost For if you had beene able with any good colour to haue coūtenāced either these points or any of the rest out of Gods owne booke and writen word the reader may think that neither your zeale to your religion nor yet your boasting spirit which hitherto hath shewed it selfe ouerflowing in you either would or could haue suffered you thus much to the preiudice your whole cause cleane to haue forgotten so much as once to go about it But to say the trueth seeing it is confessed by your betters not onely that this but the most of all the rest of the points of your Religiō which we striue with you for are grounded but vpon tradition as I haue shewed out of Soto against Brentius Canisius fift Chapter of his Catechisme and Lyndans 100. Chapter of the fifth booke of his panoply before you are the honester man and the more a great deale to be liked for your thus secretly confessing the same with them Now yet by this the Reader may plainely vnderstand what hath indeede beene the reason why in all your booke hitherto you haue laboured so much as you haue to grace and countenance tradition and the exposition of the doctours and withall haue spent so much time in diswading the appealing to the Scriptures for the ending of the controuersies betwixt vs. You were wise enough it seemeth to see where your strength lay and from whēce would rise your bane and therefore who can blame you for leaning as you doe altogither to the one and shunning the other But then in reason yet you should call your Religion no more diuinity but humanity no more Theologie but patrologie and plainely confesse indeede from whence you haue all your figge leaues rags and clouts to couer your shame and nakednes Truely these you haue whatsoeuer in this respect you pretend not from the right and sound Apostolique tradition which alwaies was either expressed in Scripture or at least cōsonant vnto it nor from the ancient holy fathers rightly vnderstood and when they taught as it was of themselues acknowledged to be their duties with sound warrant from the scriptures as I haue sundry times shewed already but onely from forged or corrupt tradition and from the fathers either misunderstood or erring as men So that vnwriten verities or rather forgeries sentences of fathers mistaken or their verie errours whereof they would haue beene ashamed if they had had the meanes to helpe them to see them that you haue are the groundes pillers and bewties of your church and Religion And this we are alwaies ready to iustifie against you before the whole world by sound and inuincible proofe out of the vn doubted word of God interpreted according to the same rules of interpreting it that the holy and ancient fathers themselues haue followed in confuting all heretiques in their times by and which they haue likewise commended to others alwaies to be obserued and out of the vndoubted writings of the ancientest and best fathers them selues Wee are therefore verie well content to liue and die in that Church and Religion which we are sure we are able thus to iustifie and we enuy not you but rather heartely lament and pittie you that yours hath no better grounde then it hath But to
let these thinges passe and to proceede to the scanning and examining of that which you haue set downe in this Chapter you beginne with an arrogant and false bragge that all ancient doctours Greeke and Latin since the Apostles times and all the ChristiaÌ„s of the foure quarters of the world that were in those daies made their promises and vowes c. as you doe now You are wonderfull generall Master Albine and your words are very confident and swelling shal we thinke that you are a maÌ„ of that learning and reading that you speake all this vpon your owne knowledge why then hauing such a cloud of witnesses such an army royall alleage you so few of them nine or ten be the most whose names you haue brought vs in al this Chapter and these you haue brought forth vpon the stage dumbe or tongue-tied if we wil here them speake we must take the paines to attend vpon them by your direction at an other time and surely in other places then you haue pointed vs we must heare a good sort of these speake for you or else we shal neuer finde them willing to yeelde either you or your cause any one word good or bad As for vowes and promises which you make to God vnlesse thereby you meane onely such vowes and promises as both you and we make in our baptisme to renounce the Diuell and al his works c. for then you haue not so much as named vs one father Greeke or Latin nor yet any one Christian of any of the foure quarters of the world you speake of And indeede you haue amongst you such rash foolish vndiscreete and superstitious vowes and promises a number for the which you could not nor cannot truely alleadge any ancient and holy father or Christian indeede thereinto giue you any countenance Such bee you vow of single and chast life vniuersally amongst you tyed to holy orders your vowes and promises to God some of you alwaies some for a time to absteine with opinion of holines and merit from flesh and whitmeate your vowes of pilgrimage to coÌ„mit idolatry at this Saints shrine picture or at that and a number of like stampe of which kinde of vows promises if you meane I say first your glory in theÌ„ is your shame for these are but plaine wil worships condemned by Christ Mat. 15. and by Paul Coloss 2. the very bronds marks of such as according to S. Pauls prophesie in the later daies should depart froÌ„ the faith giue heede vnto spirits of errour and doctrine of Deuils 1. Tim. 4. And further I say such vowes were better neuer made theÌ„ made being made they are of the nature dangerous consequence that the best way were first to repent of the folly and rashnes in making of them then rather quite to giue them ouer theÌ„ with such superstition and impiety to seeke to keepe them as is vsed breaks forth thereby shamefully amongst you For it is plentifully proued both out of scriptures and out of Ambrose in the second canon of the eighth couÌ„cel of Toledo that oathes that caÌ„not be performed without sinne are vnlawfull not to binde And you cannot be ignorant that Gratian causa 22 quest 4 produceth many testimonies out of the fathers to the same end and the namely out of Isidor there he hath noted set downe this for a good rule in such cases as these of yours be In malis promissis rescinde fidem in turpi voto muta decretuÌ„ quod incautè vouisti ne facias impia est promissio quae scelere adimpletur that is in euill promisses performe theÌ„ not in a filthie vow change thy purpose the which rashly thou hast vowed doe not it is an vngodly promise which is fulfilled with sin And rather then men that haue vowed promised a single life through the force of inward coÌ„cupiscence should burne and fal either to fornicatioÌ„ adultery or any other vncleannes or filthines of the flesh with were as heaueÌ„ earth all the world knowes coÌ„moÌ„ fruits of your priestly vow of single life the ancieÌ„t Doctours that you brag of here so much would haue theÌ„ to marry and to repent of their rash vow as it is euident in Cyril in his third 16. bookes vpon Leuiticus in Cyprian li. 1. Epist 11. in Epiphanius himselfe coÌ„tra apostolicos l. 2. and in August de bono coniugali de sanctâ virginitate cap. 34. But by the vowes and promises that you speake of seeing you cite no fathers for any other I will take it that you meant onelie those that you vse to make to God in Baptisme Now theÌ„ yet therein vnderstand you striue without an aduersary For we in our baptisme doe as solemnly make those vowes and promises to God to renounce the Deuill the world the flesh wtall their fruits to beleeue in God and serue him all the daies of our life as euer any of you did or doe But you say further that al these holy Doctours ChristiaÌ„s you spake of at their baptisme did vse those very ceremonies that you doe with the selfesame exorcismes adiurations and annoyntings which you doe vse in your Catholique church which we call papisticall for the proofe of the trueth whereof you name vs certaine places out of Tertullian Cyprian Origen Chrysostome Augustine Basil and Arnobius what are these all the ancient doctours and Christians since the Apostles time that you speake of Though it were graunted you that these seuen in these places were for your ceremonies which you vse in baptisme yet this were farre from all that you spake of before Thus to beginne withall euery bodie may see that you are a far mightyer man in bragging theÌ„ you dare so mâ—â—h as to make shew you are in prouing all you say But to passe by this fault herein you haue committed a second fault worse then this first For whereas you alleadge these fathers here to couÌ„tenance your whole pompe of ceremonies now vsed by you in Baptisme there is not you know well enough or else you are not so cuÌ„ning in these places as you would haue men thinke you are the halfe of your ceremonies fashions so much as barely mentioned by them in these places Exorcisme abrenuntiation crossing thrise dipping and anointing are all that I can finde any of these in any of these places to haue mentioned but that they vsed the selfesame exorcismes adiurations and anointings that you now vse as you say I finde not Your Chrisme that you anoint withall must haue as you hold balsom in it and in them I finde onely mention of oyle and none of any balsom your formes of exorcising and adiuring set downe in your seruice bookes are not found in any of these places nay it is well enough knowen they are of younger yeares by a faire deale But what are these few ceremonies the names whereof and vse whereof in some sort they had
hence men ouergrowen and oppressed with thornes Sure such as these go straight to hell or else none In the other two places it cannot be denied he both mentions praier for the dead and in some sorte alloweth thereof and holdeth thereby good to come to the dead the places are in his Enchiridion to Laurence cap. 110. and in his booke de curâ agendâ pro mortuis But both in these same places and else very often in his workes as namelie in the 1 4. and 18. Chapters of the later booke in his 23. sermon de verbis Apostoli in his 21 booke of the Citty of God cap. 13. and 24. and to Dulcitius quaest 2 it appeareth that herein and hereabout in his time there was great question some as the common people stretching the vse of praiers for the dead euen to the discharging of the worst sort and some altogither disalowing any kinde of good to come thereby whereupon somewhat too much caried with a desire to appease the commō people he chose the meane betwixt 2 extremities which he thought in this case the safest and so that he seemeth to teach that they were profitable for a mean sort neither perfectly good nor extreame bad And that in this question of the determining the auailablenes of praiers for the dead he was both greatly caried by the sway of the opinions of the multitude and greatly perplexed to finde out of what sins men might be eased therby he himselfe most plainly sheweth de ciuitate Dei l. 21. c. 24. 27. in the first hereof disputing such questions thereabout as he did in the other confessing that though he had searched much for that matter yet he could not be satisfied therein and who so readeth his booke de curâ agendâ pro mortuis hee shall finde it wonderful full of doubts and questions about this matter and before I haue shewed how variable vnconstant he was for the purging fire after this life what a weake and tottering foundation or ground then is Saint Augustines authoritie in this case to build vpon But if hee had beene neuer so confident constant and resolute herein seeing hee confesseth as he doeth that he hath no warrant for it in the scriptures but the Machabees that he laieth the custōe of praying offring for the dead as the verie foundation of his opinion in this point by his owne leaue and rules we may lawfullie without offering him any wrong dissent from him herein as I haue shewed sundry times before For in his 112 Epistle most plainely and honestly he saieth Follow not so my authority that therefore thou shouldest thinke thy selfe of necessity bound to beleeue it because I haue saied it and de vnitate ecclesiae Cap. 10. we must not saieth he agree to catholicke bishops if peraduēture they be deceiued or hold any thing contrary to the scriptures the reason is that as he saieth contra faustum l. 11. cap. 5. such mens writings are to bee read not with necessity of beleeuing but with liberty of iudging For onely to the scriptures without gainesaying saieth he I owe my consent Epist 19. ad Hieronimum This leaue and liberty you take in refusing either him or any other of the fathers in a number of points where you like them not and why should not we then haue leaue to doe likewise in this being able as we are to proue that herein he went further then either he had any warrant for out of the canonical scriptures or out of any vnforged and vncounterfeited president for three hundreth yeares at the least of any ancient father But when you haue made the most of his speeches and writings you can you can neuer without doing of him most grosse iniury make him to allow of your kinde of sacrificing and offering the body and bloud of Christ vnto God the father as a propitiatory sacrifice for the dead For de fide ad Petrum Diaconum Cap. 10. most confidentlie he hath taught bidding vs to hold it most stedfastly and nothing doubt therof but that Christ offered that sacrifice to his father himselfe and that the holy Catholique Church ceaseth not to offer the sacrifice of bread and wine in faith charity which must needs be a sacrifice of thankesgiuing and commemoration of the other onelie propitiatorie sacrifice not an offering of it againe as you imagin◠for quicke or dead Thus at last we haue viewed and scanned all your euidence Master Albine and for any thing we can yet finde vnlesse gaine and commodity that commeth rowling in vpon you by the practice of this point of praying for the reliefe of soules in purgatorie were a more forcible argument to continue your liking thereof then anie thing saied and taught with anie constancie by anie of these doctours in any of these places or any where else to countenance it withall we might easilie be perswaded that you would quietlie giue ouer stāding any longer in such egre defence of it as you do But indeede this argument hath proued so sweete and strong of your side that vntill we be able to weaken this as we haue done the rest that is to stop the passage of the cōming in of gaine and commodity vnto you this way we shall neuer put you to silence in this howsoeuer we preuaile with you in all other points This is the argument of arguments the first and last middlemost all that in trueth you haue for this of any weight And this we cannot deny to such as you be must needs seeme a most notable argumēt For to make you in loue with it and euen for the sake thereof alone to hold on your plea in this cause purgatory hath so pickt other mens purses filled yours so dispossessed others possessed you and praying for soules there hath so brought in paiments to you pilled and poled the heires frends of the dead that if you wil speake for any thing surely you will speake neuer giue ouer speaking for this Iohānes Angelus a mā of some credit of your side saieth that the soules that are in purgatory are of the Popes iurisdictiō that he if he would could at once euē empty purgatory therfore as it should seeme by his owne right your Pope Clemēt the 6. in his time by his buls cōmaunded the Angels to deliuer thēce so many soules as he thought good But I pray you this being thus why neither did he nor any before him being so holy merciful fathers to their subiects cliēts as you pretēd they are take such compassion of the poore soules there as of charity and compassion to ridde them all thence at once The reason was that this your onely argument of gaine still to grow thereby might continue frō time to time in force For doubtles it is not to be supposed that such a noble rase of holy most holy fathers would haue stayed all this while from doing such a wonderfull worke of
and by Iohn Reuel 14. of the consumption of Antichrist and fall of Babylon shew onely that the Lorde would doe it by the spirit of his mouth in the preaching of the euerlasting Gospell That therefore is it onely that we are to approue our selues by to be the men that the Lorde will vse to that purpose And yet herein we take not vpon vs greater priuiledge then Christ For we accoūt that an especiall priuiledge of his that he was so to confirme his doctrine by miracles as that after the confirmation of it so by him his Apostles and the recording of it in the new Testament as it is it should thenceforth stand so firme that it should be an intollerable signe of incredulity amongst them especially that pretend they reuerence and receaue the scriptures as you would seeme to doe euer to require miracles more to confirme the same doctrine by You were not best therefore to perswade your selues in this sort the howsoeuer it be with your religion otherwise yet you shal be at the least without blame for your not receiuing of ours because we work no miracles Deceiue not your selues It is not with you now in respect of vs and our doctrine as it was then with the Iewes in respect of him and his Then that he was the particuler person of the Messias that therefore he being come the ceremonies of Moses law should cease and giue place to his sacraments c was a thing to be proued that by miracles because it was before prophecied whereas now those things long ago haue beene sufficiently confirmed and therefore we preaching vnto you no other doctrine but that so already confirmed and requiring no further to be credited then we can so proue our doctrine especially seeing the prophecies cōcerning these later daies shew rather y◠Antichrist and his Chaplaines shal come and seeke to preuaile by miracles then the Lords faithful pastours you haue no such reason as they had nor indeed any at all to require miracles at our hands But you say vnto vs as Augustine saied vnto the Manichees contra epist Fundam cap. 4. sola personat apud vos veritatis pollicitatio with you there is no other sound but promise that you haue the truth Whereunto adde the words that immediatly follow and you are answered For he addeth which yet if you can make appeare is so cleare of your side that it may not be doubted of is to be preferred before all those things that otherwise holde me in the Catholique Church Be you of this minde once with Augustine and then learne this one other lesson of him do vnitate ecclesiae contra Petil. cap. 3. Nolo humanis documentis sed diuinis oraculis ecclesiam demonstrari I will not haue demonstration made of the church by humane documents but by the diuine oracles And so say vnto vs as he saied there vnto Petilian let vs seeke the Church and so discusse our cause by the scriptures beholde they are common vnto vs both beholde there we haue knowen Christ beholde there we haue knowen the church c. Take this course once with vs and I doubt not whatsoeuer you brag to the contrary but we shall thereby be able to iustifie both our vocation and Religion and to make it appeare that we haue not onely a bragge of trueth with you and the Manichees but the very trueth it selfe And this being proued thē you must yeelde with Augustine that it is to be preferred before all other outward thinges whatsoeuer that haue kept you hitherto in an other Religion and church yea then you must confesse notwithstanding all your obiections otherwise against vs of nouelty paucity iars in opinion and whatsoeuer else yet it is your dueties to ioyne with vs in receauing of this trueth Wherefore vnlesse you will let all other bie matters go and enter once into this question with vs in earnest whether your Religion or ours be the trueth and for the triall thereof will stand to the scriptures interpreted according to the sound and alwaies vsed rules of interpreting them colour your refusing thus to doe with what colours possibly you can you too too grossely be wray the badnesse of your cause and euidently shewe that you onely seeke shifts hoales and corners to escape as long as you may the discredit therof And your owne frends will they nill they shal be inforced to see the same You conclude with prayer that we may drawe as neare you as we are farre from you and that we may turne to the flock of Christ the which both to your hurt and our owne you say we haue forsaken Insteede of Amen to yours I beseech the Lord of all mercies and father of our Lord Iesus Christ that it would please him of his infinit goodnes and mercy euen for his deare sonne Iesus sake to open the eies of your mindes and so to touch your hearts as that you may haue grace with vs to come out of Babylon and to leaue that garish whore of Rome with all her abhominations and so to ioyne with vs in the true communion of Saints and fellowship of the trueth and spirit that both you and we may dwell togither as brethren in one house agree and growe togither as members of one body rest togither as sheepe of one flocke vnder one father God almighty vnder one head shepheard Christ Iesus through the mighty working of the holy Ghost to Gods glory and our owne euerlasting comfort Amen FINIS A short answere to a new offer not published at the first when D. Fulke and Master Carter answered the 22. demands whereunto it is now annexed the ground and matter whereof is an enumeration of six certaine and assured signes and tokens as the offerer calleth them of Antichristians false prophets heretiques and schismatiques mentioned in diuerse places of the scripture COncerning these sixe signes welbeloued this is his offer that if by the learned protestāt they can be proued more aptly and truely to agree to him his fellowes of the commō knowen catholick church of Christ thē vnto the protestāts of so many sundry and diuers sects and congregations that then he wil submit yeelde recant and not before Learned protestant I take my selfe to be none howbeit finding as I did when I tooke first in hand to answer Iohn de Albines former discourse that the publisher thereof had therewithall published not only the offer of a proud papist to a learned protestant cōsisting of 22. challenges or demaunds long ago answered by the men aboue named but also with this new addition of these six signes and then not vnderstanding though it had beene thus abroad many years amōgst vs in English that any learned or vnlearned had vouchsafed to answer it though I thought it needles to answer againe the offer of 22. demaunds so wel answered by the foresaied mē before that the authour thereof neuer since had pleasure to reply I thought it yet
not amisse vnto my former answer to Iohn de Albine to annex this short answer thereunto His first signe of such as hee speaketh of hee saieth is their departure from the cōmon knowen catholick Church of Christ wherin they were baptized first receaued christiā faith and religiō and this to be such a signe he proueth out of the second chapter of S. Iohns first Epistle where he speaking of such saieth they departed frō vs but they were not of vs for if they had they would stil haue cōtinued with vs. Wherupon he thinketh that forasmuch as hee saieth wee cannot deny but that wee are the men that haue thus departed from their common knowen catholicke Church faith and religion wherein we were first baptized and that wee cannot say that they haue so departed from vs they still remaining in the same church faith and Religion that they first receaued that of necessity we must be enforced to graunt that this signe agreeth to vs and not to them This good Christian that he hath saied were of fome force if he any or all his fellowes togither were euer able to proue that they their church faith and Religion were such as Saint Iohn spake of when he so taxed men for their departure therfrom but seeing onely most beggerly all the packe of them this being the maine question betwixt them and vs alwaies take this for graunted them euen for their bolde impudent and importunate begging of it which we will neuer graunt them nor they shall euer be able to winne at our hands all that he hath saied herein is childish and vaine For we are alwaies most ready and willing to ioyne this issue with them for and about al the controuersies amongst vs that if we be not able by due conference of the Catholique and Apostolique doctrine taught by the Apostles Apostolicke men in the primitiue church testified and extant in their owne vndoubted writings with ours that we are of the same common knowen Catholique Church faith and Religion that they were and that the Romish Church in the thinges wherein wee differ from them is cleane departed from them and from the church of Christ her faith and Religion that then was that then we will as he saieth most willingly submit our selues yeelde and recant And I hope in answering of Iohn de Albine vpon occasion in sundry places I haue so shewed the agreeablenesse of our faith and Religion with the Apostles and the manifolde disagreements of the Church of Rome that nowe is from them and the ancient church of Rome planted by them as that euery one euen thereby sufficiently may see that not wee but they are the men that Saint Iohn spake of that haue departed from the true Church of Christ faith and Religion and that therefore this signe doeth so farre better agree to Papists then to vs that if this offerer will be as good as his worde hee must presentlie submit himselfe yeelde and recant In the meane time the manifest contrariety betwixt their doctrine and Christs and his Apostles made manifest vnto vs by the view of the scriptures thēselues and the notorious difference betwixt their churches practise now and the ancient churches of Rome for sixe hundreth yeares after Christ at the least made likewise euident vnto vs by all sound monuments of antiquity haue assured vs that in respect of them and their Romish Synagogue in these later daies to embolden vs to doe as we haue God from heauen by an Angel saied vnto vs go out of her my people least you be pertakers of her sinnes and so receaue of her punishments Apoc. 18. vers 4. And therefore as it was lawfull for Abraham to follow the Lordes calling Gen 12. to depart out of his owne cuntrey Chaldea and to forsake the abhominatiō thereof as it was wisedome for Lot at the admonition of the Angels to go out of Sodom Gen. 19. and as it was necessary that Christ and his should separate thēselues from the high Priests Scribes and Pharisees and their errours and superstitions though they then their followers bragged that they were the people of God his church so was it meete requisite for vs to depart as we haue from their Popish church and the popery thereof And as for our receauing our baptisme amongst them that bindeth vs no more to hold cōmunion with thē still in their false erronious religion then the receauing of circumcision bound Christ his Apostles those of the Iewes that beleued by their doctrine to continue felowship with the blind and superstitious synagogue of the hard harted Iewes or the receiuing of baptisme in former times at the hands of the ancient heretiques the Arriās or any other such like bound thē that were baptised by such y◠they might not separate themselues frō such to returne home againe to the true catholique church of Christ Againe if they thinke that men are bound alwaies to liue and die in that Religion whereof they were that baptized them why doe they labour by their Iesuits seminaries to seduce to their Religion such as we haue baptized But yet to touch them more neerely for all this brag of their still continuing in the faith and Religion they first receaued let euen their owne Baptisme and their faith and Religion that they after professe bee compared togither and the contrary will appeare For they being al baptized in the name onely of the Father the Sonne the holy Ghost as it is well knowen they are thereby they are bounde onely to beleeue in this Trinity in Vnity and Vnitie in Trinity and yet afterwardes all the sort of them notwithstanding the Apostles Creede and all other ancient Creeds teach them the same become plaine apostataes from this faith in beleeuing in a number both of persons and thinges that without blasphemy they cannot count either God the Father God the Sonne or God the holy Ghost Proofe and most palpable demonstration hereof is their beliefe in their owne merits merits of others Popes pardons halowed water other halowed things their beliefe in and therefore praying vnto Saints Angels In the wonderful prouidēce of God doubtles this forme of baptisme these creeds were preserued continued amongst thē not only to make it euen thereby euident whatsoeuer any of thē brag to the contrary neuer so oft that they are the men that daily depart both frō the faith of Christ first taught them their forefathers and after particulerly in their baptisme cōfirmed to euery one of them but also to make thē before both God man without all excuse of their so grosse apostacy from the same notwithstāding Wheras they know all the world els that knoweth vs know that we simply continue in this faith first deliuered vntd vs briefly by the holy catholique church in these creeds daily sealed vnto vs in our baptisme that euen for that it is that we are so hated and persecuted of