Selected quad for the lemma: father_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
father_n	ghost_n	holy_a	scripture_n	18,784	5	6.1696	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19856	The replie of Iohn Darrell, to the answer of Iohn Deacon, and Iohn Walker, concerning the doctrine of the possession and dispossession of demoniakes	Darrel, John, b. ca. 1562.	1602 (1602)	STC 6284; ESTC S109294	61,620	110

Apostles faith was so strong as it needed no meanes to stirre vp the same And I would tell you you say vntruly but that your skore is so full that now you be desperate Of these two bastardly propositions conceiued and brought forth by your selues and not by me you frame a Contradiction saying therupon that I will turne ●re I burne yea with the turning of an hand turne the cat in the pan and then you tell my pupils they may be pestilent proud of such a turne-about tutor Here wee may beholde as your honest dealing with me so your eloquence and modestie Besides I auouching the Apostles strong faith after Pentecost able for miracles whatsoeuer and therefore vnlikely the Lord should appoint a peculiar course for them for so short a time as from his transfiguration till then you collect from hence the weaknes of their faith till Penticost which I graunt you and more then that namely that their miraculous faith was vtterly extinct at this time And therfore no vse of fasting and prayer for the extraordinarie work but onely as it serued to the vsual maner of the Church in this case But you wil proue the apostles miraculous faith might faile a●ter Pentecost because their faith failed sometimes in doctrine and 〈◊〉 That we may vnderstand your meaning what do y● 〈◊〉 by Doctrine what by iudgement Doctrine vsuall is publike teaching and instruction Iudgment priuate thinking and opinion Did the Apostles erre in publike teaching You saye The Apostles and bretheren which were in Iud●a thought the word of God was not to be preached to the Gentils Act. 11. 2. You ground this ou● of these wordes And when Peter was asc●nded to H●erusalem they of the circumcision contended against him VVho contended with him The Apostles say you but without any warrant from the text It seemeth S. Luke hauing mentioned the Apostles in the first verse doth of purpose in the second vse these generall termes They of the circumcision to distinguish these contenders with Peter frō the Apostles It may be the Apostles did not yet ●o clearly vnderstand this mistery yet it is not likelie they were in this ca●e no more but equall to the weake brethren whereby the● should ioyne in contention with them Grant we also an errour here it was only in iudgement not in doctrine And as for Peters not going rightly to the truth of the Gospell it was not error Gat. 2. 13. 14 either in doctrine or iudgement but a timorous dissimulation for the time Iohn his falling downe before an Angell was errour through R●ue 19. 10 sodaine passion not proceeding from setled iudgement much lesse auouched in publike teaching Considering therefore these places proue not that the Apostles erred in doctrine and iudgement and that the Lord doth principall● promise that the Spirit of truth should l●ad Ioh. 16. 13 14. 26. 1. Cor. 3. 10. Ephes 2. ●0 them into all truth and bring all things to their remembrance which Christ had told them whereupon they be called Skilfull Maister-builders and the Church is said to be built vpon the foundation of the prophets and apostles It is admirable you dare so considently auouch such an assertion vpon so little or rather no warrant and of so dangerous consequence You childishly cauill at my speech where I say Their faith did not faile them after they receiued the holy Ghost in ●ag 127. c That f●●nesse as if I had attributed such a fulnesse to thē as is not incident to a creature and yet I expresly distinguish it by note of restraint Act. 7. 55. 13. 9. Luc. 1. 41. Act. 2. 2. 4 That fulnesse that is such a plentifull measure as I had spoken of before Such an one as was said of Stephen ●hat hee was ful of the holy Ghost and of Paul and of Elizabeth when shee brake forth into that heauenly salutation of the blessed virgin that she was filled with the holy ghost The same is said of Zacha●y when he prophecied and of the Apostles that they were filled with the holy ghost And all these in the Concret but in the Abstract without all limitation to haue the fulnesse ●f the Spirit belongeth onely to a diuine person the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost So that whatsoeuer person hath the simple fulnesse of the Spirit the same is God as well as hee who hath the fulnesse of the Godhead Of Christ his fulnesse to whom the Father hath not giuen his Spirit by measure do all the elect receiue not the fulnes it selfe but grace for grace that is graces or gifts of the Spirit heaped vpon graces euery one according to the measure of the gift of Christ some euē vntil their cup runne ouer All which discourse when at last you pag. 133. conclude that howsoeuer the Apostles were subiect to errour yet they could not pos●iblie erre s● long as they heard the voice of Christ and but followed the onely directions of the spirit of truth And that they did neuer vniuersally erre Moreouer that they did neuer ●●cline from the foundation it selfe lastly that they w●re recalled from their e●r●urs● what singular thing do you ascribe to the Apostles that is not common to all beleeuers Are not the Apostles to be preferred aboue all other Ministers of the Gospell and beleeuers since theire dayes Yet you seeme to put them in the very same ra●ke Nay you say in the top of the same page that there ●e some F●st●noni●s of the Apostles which onely but slipped from humane infirmities and that these ●ow glorious soeuer in shew are not the testimony of Iesus therfore not the spirit of proph●cie you speake here very daungerously that I say no worse You argue the defect of the Apostles miraculous ●aith from their pag. 135. Act. 4. 29 30. 9. 40 〈◊〉 8. 8 praying in working miracles which rather is an argument for the continuance of it For if it had ●in vtterly extin● it had not bene to ●e obtained by prayer but if you say Prayer declareth the ●eaknes of it and that you meane such weaknesse as without prayer ha● not beene able to effect the worke it is false 〈◊〉 hath beene oft ●emembred vnto you but if you take weaknesse for some lesse measure of Matt. 17. cheerefulnesse which had neede be stirred by inuocation of Gods holy name I graunt you such a weaknesse but this is too weake to strengthen any whit your cause you charge mee falsly in saying I denie that the apostles faith might did faile before they were filled with Doct. pag. 46 48 Doct. 49 pag. 136 the holy Spirit I know not how oft I affirme this which you say is the very point I denie Neither do I say it was but fortie dayes betweene Christ his transfigi●ation and Pentecost I do writtingly let passe manie of your lies it is a trouble to repeate them you see no inconuenience to approper these words This kind

THE REPLIE OF IOHN DARRELL TO THE ANSWER OF IOHN DEACON AND Iohn Walker concerning the doctrine of the Possession and Dispossession of Demoniakes Ecclesiastes 4. 1. I turned and considered all the oppressions that are wrought vnder the sun and behold the teares of the oppressed none comforteth them and loe the strength is of the hand of them that oppresse them and none comforteth them Imprinted 1602. TO THE RIGHT REVEREND FATHERS AND BRETHREN the Pastors and Teachers in the Church of England Grace and peace be multiplied in our Lord Iesus Christ IT had bene to be wished right Reuerend beloued in our Lord Iesus Christ that some question arising of late as you know concerning Dispossession of diuels in these times by fasting and prayer the same might haue bene propounded examined and decided in your lawful assembly For your senses being exercised in the knowledge of God his truth and your minds enlightened with continuall practise of the Church would easily haue discerned the stampe of the Sanctuarie and this iudiciall determination of yours woulde no doubt either haue preuented or stayed at least much violent proceeding manie impious assertions and great distractions among the people which not able to iudge of the substance of things stand amazed at the vaine sound and multitude of words But as this happinesse hath bin much wished in like case heretofore so neuer could it be lesse hoped for then now when our sinnes haue breathed new life into the dead carkesse of Antichrist whereby hee startles vp on his feete afresh and begins to strout amongst vs againe in terrible sort yet notwithstanding your ioint consents cannot be had I thought it meet to offer this Reioynder to your considerations seuerally holding it most requisite that you the same parties should also heare Truth speake in her iust defence before whom and to whom shee hath beene slaundered most shamefully But what Truth is able to pleade for her selfe shall more fully appeare in the Treatise following now onely she craueth that as Gregorie Nazianzen iudged of Iulian by the wagging of his head so by these two Epistles of theirs one to your selues the other to the Reader it would please you to regard of what disposition these Answerers bee In their Epistle to you reuerend brethren you shall beholde them false in pretence vntrue in their words and ridiculously arrogant For pretence they make shew of great promptnesse with all humilitie to submit their opinions to your graue and learned censures And who would not esteeme this lowlinesse as if the men were lately descended from heauen But alas they know your publike censure is not to be feared more waightie occasions haue not hetherto procured it and what any of you shall pronounce priuately wil be but one Doctors opinion with them Their practise makes this plaine in their Discourses where testimonie as cleare as the sunne light alleaged how the Church both ancient and present hath demeaned her selfe in like actions they not hauing one word of probabilitie to reply would shift off the matter with shamelesse outfacing Is it likely nowe worthie Fathers and Brethren these men would reuerence your authoritie who reiect without blushing the authoritie of them whom all the learned deseruedly reuerence This profession then is but a meere abuse seruing onely for a maske to hide the deformity of their natural countenance And as they would carrie a faire colour of that they neuer purpose to doe so also they be no lesse vntrue in reporting things alreadie past They tell you How insolently we denied the Christian conference they prefered vs whereas they neuer profered me any and as for M. Moore they comming to him promising to confer the next morning neuer came to him afterwards thinking it better to cracke their credit in breaking that promise then to stand to their word receiue a foyle in the bickering So they talk of a new conference with me offered to my speciall friends when neither friend not foe kuew where I was when also had they knowne and signified vnto me this profered conference I might with small securitie to my person haue conferred with them notwithstanding their profered bond Whereby you may see that occasion was rather sought to blind the world with then that any conference was soundly intended In like manner they affirming that dispossession in these times by fasting prayer be miracles that they bee vrged as necessary to support our Relgion that there is no difference between them wrought in the church of god amongst vs these done in Antichrists kingdom that the dealers in these actions are to be matched with Bròwnists Hackets are assertions of such nature as might with good reason were they true enrage your meek patient spirits with indignation specially whē you heare their principal end in publishing these Counsels of God lately reuealed vnto them concerning these incricate questions for so they Answer page 95 speake of these fancies or rather frensies of theirs in the Treatise following was forsooth to accomplish the peace of Ierusalem Are nouelties peaceable Innouations fit for quiet Doctrines neuer heard of before procurers of concord O blessed peacemakers which would soulder vp the breaches and disagreements of Ierusalem with latelie reucaled counsels Thus they dare toyour faces poure forth their vntruths not onely in matter of faith wherein none but some speciall persons could conuict them but also in doctrines whose falshood your selues are best able of all other to descry as soone as you heare them And is not their arrogancy worthy to be laughed at but that your manner is rather to bewaile mens folly when they would be Magistri sententiarum haue their Discourses Dictates for young students in diuinitie It were hansom sure to behold a Sow sit with a distaffe teaching the fine Ladies to spin that the Crow should instruct the young Nighttingales to sing and that the Conduites in Cheape should be fed from the publike draynes sinkes of the citie But could they bee content to be directours only to the younger students These mysteries of theirs are an infallible truth as they say Counsels of god lately reuealed vnto them as you heard euen now And therfore your selues learned Fathers though much trauelled in the sacred sciptures greatly read in ancient writers acquainted with later monuments of knowledge experience of all kinde yet hitherto in these poyntes you know nothing if you purpose hereafter to vnderstand any thing you must sucke it onely from the breasts of these late Reuelations In which regarde it may very well bee these Answerers could greatly reioyce as also they professe if it might please any of you to cōfute them because they thinke theselues on so sure a ground are tickled as it seemeth with an imagination of that glory which they suppose they should gaine by your foile discredit Whether they wil accept such a labour in good part or no you shall haue experience by