when they haue the greatest victorie thā to iustice wher had the Dukes of Saxony and other your defendours bene From the beginning against the wills of so many Kinges Euery Anabaptist in Brabāt or Scotlād liueth against the Prīces wil because he generally wisheth euery heretike out of the way for feare of infecting the good Chistiās yet ther is another wil in Prīces which if they would folow no heretike could haue peeped vp in all Christēdom but he shuld haue ben quikly dispatched In spite of the Popes That is true in one sense because in deed very spite hath moued diuers mē to refuse his authority but in an other it is false For if he for exāple had stomaked the matter he had held them for excōmunicate which should haue the name of Kīg Hēry in their bokes like as on the cōtrary side it was high treason to haue the name of Papa in any writing or Calēder And almost maugre the head of al men hath taken encrease Here again commeth in almost No if men had resisted it in deede it had neuer ben receiued But partly through couetise of Church goods partly through werines of straight liuing partly through hatred of superiour powers and partly through curiosity to heare what newes came out of Germanie the merchandise of heretikes had an open vent And by litle litle spread ouer into al countries and is come at the length euē to princes Courtes and palaces Neuer say at length For euen from the begining therof it was in the Courts of Princes as of King Henrie the viij Duke of Saxony c. And by plaine force of law the greater part of our owne country is kepte yet stil in it The holy Fathers did alway fight against the heretikes with no other force Apolog. then with the holy Scriptures It is false Confut. 27. as it appeareth by the first Nicene Coūcel declaring the cōsubstantiality of God the Sōne with his Father The second Councell at Constantinople resorting to the writinges of theyr for fathers for profe of the Godhead of the holie Ghost The Councel at Ephesus defining our blessed Ladie to be Deiparam the Mother of God and not only Christiparam the mother of Christ And the Councel at Calchedon where the fathers cried out aloud against Eutyches denieing the two natures in Christe and asking in what Scriptures laie the two natures Ea quae sunt Patrum teneantur Those things which the Fathers haue thought let them be kepte If there had bene any whiche would be but a looker on and abstaine from the holy Cōmunion Apolog. him did the old fathers and Bishops of Rome in the Primatiue Church before priuate Masse came vp excommunicate as a wicked person and as a Pagane How proue ye this Con. 92. Marie out of a decree of Calixtus or as ye should say Anacletus Yet he speketh not of al the people but of the clergy onli ▪ which he apointeth to attend vpon the Bishop at the aultar which are to saie seuen fiue or three Deacons likewise Subdeacons and other ministers Neither are they excommunicated if they doe not receiue but willed to be kept without the Church dores a far lesse punishment so far furthe at the least that it proueth you a lyer Our aduersaries at this day haue violently thrust out and quite forbydden the holy Communion Apolog. They haue so forbidden it Conf. 9◠that seeing th◠slewth of the common people they haue made an expresse law that whosoeuer doth not communicate at Easter shal not be taken for a Christian. And bysides if it be to far for you to goe to Rome it selfe whereas the examples of the primitiue Churche continue in theyr best practise you maie aske of the Churches of Flāders and Brabāt and if there be not more receiuing at euerie principal feast in the yere thā is church for church in the whole yeare with you then let me be reproued And this ofte receauing of Catholike people can not stand wyth a violent thrustyng out and a forbidding the holy communion as you belie the Clergie Now if by the holy communion ye meane not the receiuing of the Sacrament as Catholykes vse but receiuinge vnder bothe kindes neither in that sence speake you truely For no violence was vsed whiles one kind only was ministred no commaundement driuing the Christians at the first vnto it but their owne willes and deuotions allowing it neither by anie later Canon of the Churche are both kindes so quite forbidden but that vpon good aduise and charitable consideration both may be graunted The Bishoppes of Rome doe carie the Sacramentall bread aboute Apolog. vppon an amblyng horse whither so euer them selues iourney What if he would ryde twelue miles or seuen miles out of Rome Confut. 111. doth he carie the Sacrament with him vppon an horse No forsothe Ergo not whether so euer he iourneieth Againe howe doth he carie it In lyke sorte as noble men carie theyr necessaries with them vpon Sūpter horses or packe vp in casketes trūkes or males anie of theyr singular and pretiouse iewelles Surelie the simple and plaine Reader maie thinke vpon the credite of your woordes that the Pope when he rydeth out of towne carieth the Sacrament inclosed vp with him and set vppon some horse as though it were perteyninge to his household prouision Yet the truthe is farre otherwyse for in solemne and greate processions onelie the Sacrament is cariede about But I truste a Procession is none of the Popes iourneys neither muste his holines be sayed to ryde out of towne whē he goeth about the Cytie in his Bishoppelie Ornamentes for praiers sake onelie and deuotion Now when such high feasts do come the mōstrāce or pix for the Sacramēt being verie greate and massy is sette in deede vpon an horse not as a cariage of the Popes but as conteining a Sacrament of the Christians Which that it might be the better in syght and with more ease caried about therefore hath it pleased the deuotion or inuention of no euil mē to prepare a fayre horse to carie vppon his backe the pix in which that bodie is kepte vnder the forme of bread whiche disdayned not to ride vpon an Asse Matt. 21 ▪ whē it came into Hieruselem in visible forme of fleash They say Apolog. and sometyme do perswade fooles that they are able by theyr Masses to distribute and apply to mens commoditie all the merites of Christe his death yea although many tymes the partyes thinke nothing of the mater and vnderstand ful litle what is done Name them that doe saie so Confut. 115. and you shal be discharged of a lie and they punished for their words For the Catholiks alow not these phrases we are able to distribute by our Masses c. As who should say the Priest were no more a sinfull mā nor an hygh minister at the most vnder God but were in dede a certaine God and
Confut. For the holy doctours doe note two kindes of perfections The one of the waie in which we walke August de pâ—cca meâ—â—tis The other of the Countrie to which we goe etremiss lib. 2â— C 13. The one of this life the â—ther of the life to come The one coÌ„sisting in deniyng coÌ„sent vnto coÌ„cupisceÌ„ces notwithstanding we feele manie of themâ—â— the other consisting in a perfite peace of body and soule without any motion to euill To fulfil the lawe so that no motion of euill come to our thoughtes it is for an other worlde but not to obey the Concupiscencies that is such a perfection as many in this life doe come vnto and that is a fulfilling of the lawe of God in respect of our pilgrimage Paul sharply rebuked Peter Apolog Barnabas departed from Paul c. Did Catholike Fathers striued one against an other Ergo we should not be so greatly noted for dissensions which are fouÌ„d amoÌ„g vs. The Apostles and holy Fathers haue so striued Conâ—ut â—39 that they kept vnitie of faith and religion And they were not so set that they would liue and dye in the quarel But your Strifes are in principal maters of ReligioÌ„ aÌ„d you be so obstinat eche of you in his opinion that no Authoritie shal make yow geue ouer and yelde which is not so emonge the Catholikes whereas al are obedient vnto one head Iustine the Martyr is witnes Apolog. that al Christians were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Godlesse Ergo this ought not to trouble vs that they cal vs wicked and vngodly men The cause is not like Confutiâ—â—tion 151. For if infidels speake euil of vs it is no mater because they are not our Ordinaries or Iudges But wheÌ„ the Catholiks froÌ„ whoÌ„ ye receued the faith and without whom ye can not be sure of the Articles of your faith wheÌ„ these that haue beÌ„ aÌ„d shuld be your Fathers and Rulers doe condemne your deedes it should be a very simple coÌ„fort vnto yow that Infidels of olde tyme did speake against Christians Of the same kind of argument it is where you say Haman accused the Iewes as a people that vsed certaine new lawes Fol. 228. The AtheniaÌ„s said to S. Paul may we know what new doctrine this is Celsus writing of purpose against Christ what saith he hath God after so many ages now aâ— last so late bethought him selfe Eusebius writeth that ChristiaÌ„ religion was called new and strainge Ergo tâ—â—y bâ— wicked mâ—n spiteful against the religiâ—â—â— of God which cal vs new fangled These arguments are naught For the testimonie of Infidels against Christianâ— is nothing worth but the Sentence olde Catholikes vpon newfangled Protestantes hath much authority in it Paul the Apostle found faults falles cueÌ„ in the prime chief of the Gospel Apolog. so that he was coÌ„pelled to write sharply to the Galathians Corinthians Ergo the Church may faile and goe amisse I answer Confut. 200. faults may be coÌ„mitted either in lifeâ— either in faith Againe particular churches may erre both in life and faith The Church of Rome may erre in life but neuer in faith because the whole church then shuld be deceiued as which is bouÌ„d to obey the chief pastor like as he is priÌ„cipally bouÌ„d to feed and instruct it But this is impossible Mat. 16. Ioa. n 14. the ê“mises of God staÌ„ding aÌ„d the preseÌ„ce of the Holyghost assistiÌ„g it Ergo though S. Paul fouÌ„d errors in particular Churches this caÌ„not iÌ„port that the whol Church may be deceued or that One Church of Rome vpoÌ„ the safty and trust of which the helth of the whole depeÌ„deth Pighius findeth fault with many abuses brought in Apolog. eueÌ„ into yâ— very Masse GersoÌ„ coÌ„plaineth of a nuÌ„bre of most fond ceremonies Ergo the Church may erre You might wel say Confut. 206. Ergo a particular Church may erre in a ceremony or suche like thing about the Masse it self But this is nothing to the purpose to proue that the whole Church may erre or that the chief Church of al which is in Rome may err in faith Now as Pighius fouÌ„d fault with abuses so haue the Heades of the Churches geueÌ„ charge Sess. 6. that thei shuld be amended As in the very last CouÌ„cel at TreÌ„t By which you may perceiue that although fauts be fouÌ„d in the church yet ar they not alowed generally of the Church Bernard was no heretike Apolog. he had not forsaken yâ— Catholike Church yet neuerthelesse he did not let to cal the Bishops that then were deceiuers begylers aâ—â—â— Pilats Ergo the Church may erre As he letted not to cal som deceuers Confutation .209 etâ— so he testifieth for other that they weâ—â— good and faithful Officers in the Church As Martianus the Cardinal and Gaufriâ— Carnotensis Bernard de consideratioÌ„e both of them Legates oâ— the Pope the one into Dacia and the other into Aquitania He prayseth also Eugenius the Pope excedingly and yet without flaterie Whereby it is easy to perceaue that all were not like them whome he reproueth And therefore the whole Churche was not deceiued though some were Pilates and not Prelates An other answer is that this Obiection doth not proue errour in faith of which the question is but of maners which God amend and which hurt not the good men no more than the chaffe and strawe doth the pure corne The Grekes haue neyther priuate Masse Apologâ— nor mangled Sacramentes nor purgatories nor pardons Ergo they holde a still numbre of those thinges which they receiued from the Apostles Confutâ— 267. First the antecedent is starke false Then concerning the Argument it is not only false but folishe also For it concludeth an Affirmatiue of one kind of a plaine and pure Negatiue of an other as if a man would say The Church of Englande hath neither Crosses in their churches neither order of Monastical life in their Religion neither Latine tongue lightes or ornameÌ„ts in their Seruice Er go it holdeth stil a nuÌ„ber of those things which it receiued of S. Austin the Monk It is madnes to think yâ— the Holygost taketh his flight froÌ„ a general CouÌ„cel to â—un to Rome Apolog. Ergo yâ— Pope may erre Confut. 281. It is madnes in dede so to think And wher then had you the wit to imagin it For what place caÌ„ you apoint to a Spirit and especially what boundes vnto God Beware of it least whiles ye seke so gredily to flout your aduersary ye blaspheme in your foule termes and Ironies the holy Ghost our Creatour Item Apolo what needed so many Bishops with so greate charges so far iourneis haue assembled theyr conuocation at Trident if the Bishop of Rome must determine al maters Ergo he may erre If you had bene so obedient Confut. 281. or if other were so wise as they should be General Councels should
plaied at dice neuer so much The Popes would needes make 〈◊〉 the realme triâ—utary to them Apolog. Ergo 〈◊〉 most iustly haue forsaken them It is not for Diuines to alleage anâ— such temporal cause Confut. â—49 of mony mater 〈◊〉 their defence in departiÌ„g froÌ„ the churcâ—â— For seeing that the Popes Authority â—â—meth froÌ„ God what discharge of my 〈◊〉 is that to me if he do more than 〈◊〉 shuld by right and Conscience Do noâ— temporal princes somtimes oppresse theiâ— Subiectes and yet continew in their place and authority aboue their subiectsâ— Your Argument therefore and fact is naught And if the argument were true yet haue you no occasion to depart from the See of Rome vnto which in Quene Maries time you were reconciled considering that no tribute was required of you no not so much as the restitution of the Abbey landes The Second Chapter conteining certaine Absurdities of the English Apologie They be not mad at this day Apolog. so many free cities so many Kings so many Princes which haue falleÌ„ away from the seate of Rome and haue rather ioyned themselues to the Gospell of Christ. HOW thinke you then Confut. .16 by coÌ„mon reason May any Protestant say that AL free Cities AL Kinges AL Princes and AL Christen men and womeÌ„ froÌ„ the highest to the lowest were mad in these last ix hundred yeares in which yow disdaine and yet confesse the Pope to haue ben obeied of all Christendome and him selfe in so saying be nothing madde Or can you reproue your Aduersaries if they be so vnmannerly and hasty in their termes as to call yours so many free Cities c. madde where your selues iudge that all your Forefathers for hundred of yeares together haue bene madde when they all folowe â–ª with one consent Papistrie If it were a synne in the Heluetianâ— to deliuer their own countrie from foreâ— gouernment Apolog. specially wheÌ„ they were 〈◊〉 proudly and tyranniously oppressed yet to burthen vs with other mens faultes or them with the faultes of theire forefathers it is against all right and reason Why then do you obiect against the Catholiques the euill liues and deedes of Popes Confut. 177. Cardinalles Monkes Friers Priestes which may be founde in anie sorte or condition of men after some continuance of tyme and age And why tel you abiding in Englande tales vppon Italy Spayne or other countries of Aloisios Casios Diasios and others to burthen thereby the knowen and auncient Church In tymes past Apolog. where the first Christians our forefathers in making their prayers to God did tourne them selues towardes the Easte there were that sayed they worshipped the Sunne and reckened it as God And you Confut. .191 to proue your selues the sweete Sonnes and exacte folowers of Antiquitie haue altered the olde maner and custom of the Catholike Church by charginge your Ministers to praye towardes the sowth and that in the chiefest tyme and place of all your deuotion and Religion If you knew whether to turne your selues after the putting awaye of the olde faith and ceremonies thereof why chose you the south rather than the East And why remembred ye not the first Christians vsage Except notwithstanding the remembrance of it you regarded not what they had don and practised How absurdly then cal you them the first Christians and your forefathers whom ye disdain or be ashamed to folow in the maner of their praying That old Father Augustine denyeth it to be leefull for a monke to spende his tyme slouthfully Apolog. and vnder pretensed holinesse to liue all vpon others And who so thus liueth an olde father Apollonius likeneth him to a theefe See the pity which these men take of the old Fathers Confut. 239. because their sayinges are not regarded and see the pityful absurdity in which themselues are taken whiles they would seeme to alowe the old Fathers S. Augustine liketh not the idlenes of Monkes but ydlenes put away did he not alow the order of them His booke is De opere Monachorum of the labour of Monkes prouing that none of them must so thinke hym selfe addicted to the seruice of God in praying reading or in spirituall exercises that he should not sette his handes to corporal labour And he maketh it not a case of necessitie that euerie Monke must labour but he impugneth theyr sayinges which made a necessitie of it not to labour wyth the bodie for theyr lyuing but to serue God and man by the labour of mynd only as in praying preaching and such like Nowe therefore if S. Augustine would haue had the very Order it selfe and profession of Monkes destroyed he should haue made short and saied not that such monks as wold hold the opinioÌ„ that they should not labour bodily ought to be sette therevnto but simplie and plainly he would haue concluded that all Munkerie should be taken away And then how could he make a whole Booke De opere Monachorum of the labour of Monkes except he would find some what where nothing is and build a house without labourers But you whom the idlenes of Monkes offendeth and the neglecting of the old Fathers orders shew to vs I pray you your refourmed Monasteries Let Heretikes shevv their monasteries And if your factes haue declared before and yet hytherto your rayling tongues can testifie that ye hate the verie Order and Rule of Monkes nor would abide a laboriouse and a vertuous Monke in your companie how vnsensiblie doe you confesse the olde Fathers to haue spoken againste idle Monkes whereby they signifie no abhomination to be in the Order it selfe your selues allwayes so mockingly and spitefully handeling not distinctly idle Monkes but without all addition Monkes As maye appeare by Iohn Foxes no litle booke of Actes and MonumeÌ„ts to name one for all and by your great muse in the next sentence folowing these words of which I speake where you wote not whether to name them droues or heardes of Monks as though no other title might be geuen vnto them besides that which is proper for brute beastes Concerning the old Father Apollonius if idle Monkes be theeues what call you them which doe robb and spoile not only the idle but the laborious and holy Monkes And robbe them not of their house land and goodes only but of their fame and estimation and robbe againe not only the Monkes but the iust and true owners of such goodes as were bestowed vpon Monasteries But put the case al Monks had bene theeues He that robbeth a theefe is he not him selfe a theefe And if by stelth a true mans landes be taken from him should it not returne in conscience vnto him againe if truth and Iustice were sought for and not gaine or priuate lust How well therefore your Procedinges agree with truth and honestie Apolog. lette it be iudged by the spoyle of Monkes and Monasteries The old Councell at Carthage commaunded nothing to be readde in Christ hys Congregation
As doeth appeare by the chiefe Apostles of the new Ghospell Luther Oecolampadius Peter Martir Bale Barcâ—let Barlowe Scorie c. Which departed out of the Churche on theyr owne heade and perill and liued not well in the Churche whyles they were interteined in it And so although some faithlesse and wretched fellowes might be proued to haue sold theyr Masses in the Churche that conuinceth them to be naught and not that the Churche consenteth vnto it We verelye Apolog. because we knowe the shedding of Christe hys Bloud vppon the Crosse to be the onelie Sacrifice are well content with it alone and looke for none other And forasmuche as yt was to be offered but once we commauÌ„d it not to be renewed againe You woulde I perceaue haue the Catholikes compted exceading couetous and insatiable Conf. 123. as thoughe they shoulde thinke the shedding of Christe his Bloud vppon the Crosse to be vnsufficiente to saluation But yet howe thinke you Notwithstanding ye are so well content as ye saye with Christe his Passion alone doe ye not thinke it necessarie for you to obey the Churche to obey your Prince to absteine from lying from adultery from Simonie c If besides the passion of Christ you must also keepe the Commaundementes and doe as manie good workes as ye may then as you are content so are we And you are no wiser by this rekening than other poore folkes are But if Christ his Passion doth so content you that ye seeke not to suffer also with him after your degree in a certaine proportion then doth it plainlie appeare that you are quickly satisfied And in such sorte to be well content is for suche as neuer thincke to ascend after Christ and are verie vnlike vnto him Why hath he hys Legates as much to saie as moste suttle spyes lying in wayte in all Kinges Courtes Apolog. Councelles and priuie chambres Why doth he when he lyst sette Christian Princes one against an other And at his owne pleasure trouble the whole world with debate and discord First Con. 178 let it be proued that the Pope doth it and then afterwardes aske the cause why And coÌ„sider also whether it becommeth the Church of England that such an Apologie should goe furth in the name of it as meddleth with the legats whom other Princes of Christendome doe interteyne And which obiecteth to a person of much Authoritie at the least such an heygâ—nous and shamefull crime as that at his plesure he should trouble the whole world If the Pope were no more quiet and peaceable than ye make him had England all this while continued in schisme and heresie and not ben made a praye to some that would haue taken it What is he that coÌ„maundeth the Emperour to goe by him at his horse bridle Apolog. the Frenche King to hold his stirope Some Pope by lykelihode of your owne making Con. 185. For the Catholiks know of none such at al. Yea Pauluâ— Iouius when Charles the fifthe of worthie memorie would haue helde Pope Clements stirope he was not suffered so to doe the Popes modestie ouer coÌ„ming the Emperours deuotion Why doe they hyde Apolog. why doe they keepe vnder the Ghospell which Christ woulde haue preached alowde from the house toppe We beleue Con. 222. it is not hyddeÌ„ that which is openlie readen in the Churche Catholikelie expounded in Vniuersities Ordinarelie readen in Religiouse houses And commonlie solde in Hebrue Greeke and Latine to all that will studie it This lye is dilated by the Authours of the Apologie Fo. 264. this also is emong the flatte lyes Why doe they not proue theyr Religion Apolog. by the examples of the Primitiue Churche and by the Fathers and Councels of old tymes Our bookes doe aunswer for vs Conf. 231. that this is a lye Why be they afrayd to take a paterne Apolog. of the Apostles and old Fathers We be neuer afraied Con. 20â— but when we come to such heretikes as wil not admit the old Fathers nor theyr interpretatioÌ„s vppon the Apostles then in deede we alleage not so thicke theyr Testimonies whose Authorities the loftie and prowde mindes doe easelie contemne Why dyd Iohn Apolog. 1. Clement a Countrie man of ours 2. but fewe yeares paste 3. in the presens of certaine honest men and of good credite 4. teare and 5. caste into the fyere certaine leaues of Theodorete the moste 6. Auncient Father and a 7. Greeke Bishoppe wherein he playnlie 8. and euidentlie taughte that the nature of Bread in the Communion was not chaynged abolyshed or brought to nothinge And thys dyd he of 9. purpose bycause he thought 10. there was no other copy thereof to be found Ye haue done well so particularlie to set furth this mater Con. 231. declaring by manie circumstances that Doctour Clement shoulde Teare and Caste into the fier certaine leaues of such an Author of such a mater before men of good credite and for suche a purpose and 〈◊〉 â–ª as you specifie And nowe as though the mater needed no further 〈…〉 aske why Iohn Clement a Counâ—rieman of yours dyd so But I will tel you firste 〈◊〉 he dyd not so For as him selfe hath 〈◊〉 me and other asking this verie quâ—stion of him that you appose vs withall he neuer had anie parte of that booke in Greeke or in Latine in written hande And therefore could not wel burne that which he neuer had Nowe if the honest men that you speke of did not only se him cast certeine leaues into the fier but did reade also the contentes of those leaues before they were cast into the fier and vnderstoode vpon what intent D. Clement dyd it c. name them that they maie be knowen for theyr honestie When they did of late put in print Apolog. the auncient Father Origenes worke vp on the Ghospel of Iohn why left they quite out the whoâ—e sixte chapiter wherein it is lykely yea rather of verie suerty that the 〈…〉 had writen many thinges conâ—â—rning the Sacrament of the holy Communion contrarie to these mens myndes We could not leaue that Chapiter out Con. 233. which was not founde in anie Copy But if you can bring anie such chapiter furth ye shal make it lykely aÌ„d ê“bable that we are to blame for not putting it in And if you can not you proue your selfe to be verie suspitiouse and slaunderouse which reproue the Catholikes for not putting that in which is not as farre as we or you doe hitherto know to be found in any place extant Yet you haue suche a grace as in speaking so also in reading without booke that you further saie it to be not onlie lykelie but rather of verie suertie that such and such things should be in that place of Origen which yet you neuer sawe in al your lyfe that you might be able to reporte anie thing of it Which of al the Fathers haue at anâ—e time called you