Selected quad for the lemma: father_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
father_n	believe_v	faith_n	holy_a	10,213	4	5.4982	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A16643	A plaine confutation of a treatise of Brovvnisme, published by some of that faction, entituled: A description of the visible Church In the confutation wherof, is shewed, that the author hath neither described a true gouerment of the Church, nor yet proued, that outward discipline is the life of the Church. Whereunto is annexed an ansvvere vnto two other pamphlets, by the said factioners latelie dispersed, of certaine conferences had with some of them in prison. Wherein is made knowen the inconstancie of this sect, what the articles are which they still maintaine: as also a short confutation of them. There is also added a short ansvvere vnto such argumentes as they haue vsed to proue the Church of England not to be the Church of God.	Alison, Richard, controversialist.	1590 (1590)	STC 355; ESTC S100153	67,007	148

in the Title of this their treatise which matters if we can finde therein we will acquite them from schisme and heresie but if the discourse be not answerable vnto the Title they must returne vnto vs or else wee must acknowledge them to be not as they pretend but as they are Brownist As there is but one God and father of all one Lord ouer all and one Spirite so is there but one truth one faith one saluation one Church called in one hope ioyned in one profession guided by one rule euen the word of the most high The answere In this first sentence which heere is sette dovvne wee are giuen to vnderstande what there is to bee hoped for in that which followeth both for the matter and also for the manner of handling the matter if wee do but regarde the ende and scope thereof being altogither false yet packed vp with euident truthes that the certaintie of these might free the other of suspition The manner of dealing is to pester the margent with a cloud of witnesses to smal purpose onely they make the ignorant beleeue that he which gain-saith this booke doth speake against the word of God But how vainly this is done it will appeare by the examination of the particulars Seeing the nature and gouernment of the church say they is like vnto the Lord thereof it must be granted that as God is euer one and the same so is his church which professeth one truth holdeth one faith and is guided by that order which God hath reuealed in his word Our answere is that we do acknowledge one God the father sonne holy ghost his truth our faith and the meanes of our saluation to be vnchangeable we confesse likewise one catholike church which is the communion of saints which iointly and seuerally do confesse that saluation is obtained in and through Iesus Christ alone This church comprehendeth in it both angels and men the one sort continuing in the other sort restored vnto that estate wherein they stand and all obtaining this sentence of being perfitly righteous in and thorough the head of that church whereof they are members euen Iesus Christ our Lord. This is the church which they say must be guided by one rule euen the word of the most high Now we desire to know in what sence the word of the most high is taken for if they meane thereby the prouidence of God in which sence it is sometimes taken as Deut. 8. 3. Heb. 1. 3. we do agree in this clause also But the places quoted in the margent do shew that it is meant of the reuealed will of God contained in his word For Deut. 6. 25. Moses telleth the Israelites that the obseruing of all the commandements of the Lord their God wil be their righteousnes Paul Rom. 10. 8. saith that the worde of God was in their mouth in their hart euen the word of faith which vvas preached Againe 2. Tim. 3. 15. hee sheweth Timothie that the scriptures are able to make him wise vnto saluation thorough the faith that is in Christ Iesus Christ in the eight Chapter of Iohn and the one and fiftith verse affirmeth that if a man keepe his vvorde he shall neuer see death Lastly Iohn saith 1. Iohn 2. 3. By this vve knovv that vve know him if we keepe his commandements It is euident that these places do speake of the word of God which is giuen vnto vs to be our guide in this life for the gathering togither of the saints during their abode in this world but when life ceaseth the vse of this word of God doth cease in the Church of God as appeareth in the first to the Corinthians the thirteenth chapter and eight verse Colossians the first chapter and the three and twentith verse c. Therefore to say that the whole church that is both angels in heauen the faithfull departed out of this life and the godly remaining vpon the earth are all alike gouerned by this rule doth bewray either a foule ignorance or a foolish rashnesse VVhich rash ignorance if in this one matter it had shewed it selfe onely it had bene more tollerable then it can be when it alledgeth manie scriptures to prooue the truth so vnseasonablie as here it doth about the vnitie of the Godhead c. For the two first places the first chapter of Genisis and the first verse the twentith Chapter of Exodus and the third verse do mention God in regard of his soueraigntie ouer all things but they speake of him as the inheritour of mount Sion his Church wherefore that of saint Paul in the first to Timothie the second chapter and fourth verse might haue bene sufficient both for the proofe of this and also that there is but one truth one faith c Vnto the knowledge whereof it is the will of God that men should come and be saued By the way obserue that this place of Paul doth crosse that negatiue of theirs We denie say they that you are able to iustifie that faith which they beget their reason is because our worshipping of God is not ioyned with their discipline for we hold that faith which Paul approueth As for the testimonie which Paul giueth of Epaphroditus that he is his brother companion in labor and fellow souldier It is a weake proofe of that whereunto it is referred so is that of the Iewes saying that they haue all one father euen God which Christ denyeth vnto them in the verse next following These things are spoken not to call that into question which in it selfe is true but to shew what discretion hath bene vsed in the choise and alledging these scriptures But we will go forward Brownist This Church as it is vniuersally vnderstood containeth in it all the elect of God that haue ben are or shall be The answere Most certaine it is that the inuisible Church of God extendeth it selfe vnto all the beloued of God that haue bene are or shall be men and Angells beeing complete in him who is the head of all principalities and powers to wit Iesus Christ. VVe do agree herein yet it hath his warrant such as it is for it is here proued by the couenant made with Abraham Gen. 17. and by the vision of Iohn Reuel 7. 9. VVhich places do not proue the matter in as much as they speake of the restoring and preseruation of man onely and not of the whole bodie of the church The other three places alledged are lesse to purpose Peter 1. Pet. 1. 2. writeth vnto the church which was scattered ouer the face of the earth so that he speaketh not of the vniuersall church of God but of that which was in his age Paul saith 1. Cor. 10. 3. that the fathers did eate one spirituall meat But they were not the vniuersall church of God he speaketh only of those that were before him Christ prayeth for his Apostles Ioh. 17. 20. and not for them

Dan Achab who worshipped in the house of Baal Manasses and others did the people of God cease to be the church of God in no wise VVe grant that Gods ordinances ought to be regarded especially in matters concerning his worship but this is not the matter in question but whether the breaking of them by some one man can make the people of God to be no people vnto him for this is it that should haue bene concluded Next to this is alledged Iohn 6. 37. which place that it may the better be vnderstood we are to remember that in the verse immediatly going before Christ had said Ye haue seene me and beleeue not the he addeth All that my father giueth me shall come vnto me whereby he sheweth that the gift of faith is the free election of the father in Christ so that faith is a certaine testimonie of election to the faithfull The argument standeth thus No man can come vnto Christ and beleeue in him except it be giuen him of the father therefore euerie member of the visible church is holy Surely it is no maruell that the knowledge of the liberal sciences is condemned as an exercise of curious arts but if they knew these Arts no doubt they would be ashamed to abuse themselues others with such sencelesse kinde of reasoning Besides what meaneth this that to prooue the people of God faithfull are alledged scriptures that speake of holines as Esa. 62. 12. Deut. 14. 2. And now to proue their holinesse faith is mentioned If faith and holinesse be all one why are they noted as diuers with e f if they be not all one why is the handling of them thus confounded in one of these must be acknowledged a foule ouersight Then followeth to proue the holinesse of the church aforesaid Iohn 3. 14. 12. 32. both which places doe shew that Christ will draw his elect vnto him the first doth shew the meanes whereby this shalbe done namely by the ministerie of his word which is signified by his lifting vp the other place noting the time viz. after his death Now this is the force of this argument Christ bringeth men to beleeue in him therefore euery member of the visible church is holie I neede not stay in shewing how well this proofe is made we wil come to the last place for this matter cited which is that of Christ Luk. 17. 3. Looke to your selues and so proceedeth in shewing how reprehensions are to be vsed I cannot perceiue what moued the Author to alledge this place which pertaineth not to the matter except it were to make a shew in the margent amongst his other friuolous vain quotacions To proceede This faithfull and holy people is gathered in the name of Christ Iesus their onely king priest and prophet c. That Christ Iesus is our onely king priest and prophet and that the seruants of God in all their assemblies both publike and priuate do meete in his name is confessed but the manner of dealing with the scripture is not here greatly to be commended For how is the kingdome of Christ prooued for it is cited Gen. 44. and the tenth verse where Ioseph speaking to his brethren of the cuppe saith thus Now then let it be according to your words he with whom it is found shall be my seruant and yee shall be blamelesse Truely if a written coppie of this treatise being more ancient then the printed booke had not come vnto my handes wherein I see the same place quoted I should haue laide this fault vppon the Printer for I should neuer haue suspected a church builder to haue bene such a sencelesse prophaner of the word of God The other testimonies viz. Psal. 45. 6. Zac. 9. 9. Heb. 1. 8. are more plaine So for his priesthood the making intercession for his Rom. 8. 34. Ioh. 17. which is a part of that function and Heb. 5. 9. 8. 1. 4. 14. speaking of the whole office are to be accepted Now to come to his propheticall function for which is alledged Deut. 18. 15. which is not to be restrained vnto Christ for it promiseth vnto the church a continuall succession of teachers in all ages It is more to purpose which is alledged out of Matth. 17. 5. Heb. 1. 1. but as touching Gen. 14. 18. though it speaketh of Melchisedek who was king of Salem and a Priest and was a figure of Christ Heb. 7. 1. yet the place that is quoted hath small force in it selfe to proue that for the which it is brought This church also worshippeth him aright that is neither in a set forme of praier nor yet in that place where discipline is not established for we gather the Authors minde out of his owne writings So that he alloweth that for true worship which is by the direction of Gods spirit our onely helpe and vnder the established gouernement of Pastors c. Indeed God is a spirite and is to be worshipped in spirite and truth which cannot be done without his direction yet are there certaine outward helpes which God hath sanctified for the furthering of the weake in their special seruing of God as reading c. And if true worship cannot be performed without this gouernment then may not we iustifie euen their owne seruing of God for they thēselues do want this discipline Three places of scripture are here abused Exo. 20. 7. 8. Leuit. 10. 5. Ioh. 4. 23. for not one of them condemneth read prayers in any mā much lesse whol churches either for them or for want of this discipline True it is that the name of God must not be abused neither must his worship be prophaned as is euident to be seene in Nadab and Abihu who for their strange fire were consumed of the Lord not that he regardeth so much a cole of fire only he warneth men to take heede that they worship God according to his owne appointment But to the matter Did the sin of Nadab and Abihu cause Moses his people to be no church vnto God we may not so thinke The offenders receiued iust recompence for their sin the rest continued the seruants worshippers of God These proofs therfore faile in these points First they proue not that the false worship of one maketh a nullity before God of the whole cōgregation but shew the contrarie secondly they proue not a set forme of praier to be a taking of Gods name in vaine a prophanation of the sabaoth or a carnal worship but we say that this kind of worship is vnlike to that of Nadab Abihu because it is warranted in the word of God wherin I wil not vrge Nu. 6. 23. or Matth. 6. 9. which hauing bin aledged heretofore are turned aside with expounding the Hebrue coh the greek houtos after this manner or thus as if the place in Numery were the sum of al blessings the other in Matth. were only giuē for a direction in

onely but for those which should beleeue in him thorough their pearching he prayeth not for the vniuersall church viz. all that haue bene are or shalbe but for those which being aliue should inioy the ministery of his Apostles But it may be the authors meaning is not out of euery of these seuerally but from them al ioyntly to conclude this vniuersal church for as much as Paul speaketh of those which haue bene Peter speaketh of those that are and Christ mentioneth those that shalbe VVhich though we should grant yet they all mention but mankind onely and thereof not all the elect of God for the infants which are vnder the couenant and departing this life before they are capable of the ministerie of the word are not comprehended within the number of those which Christ in that place prayed for Peter did write vnto c. so that these places iointly taken do not conteine so much of the vniuersall church as the two first places though they did yet they do not comprehend the whole as hath bene said Thus a good dish may be marred by an vnskilfull cooke and a good matter spoiled by an vnlearned clearke Brownist But being considered more particularly as it is seene in this present world it consisteth of a company and felowship of faithfull and holy people gathered togither in the name of Christ Iesus their only king priest prophet worshipping him aright being peaceably gouerned by his officers and lawes keeping the vnitie of faith in the bond of peace and loue vnfeigned Answere Leauing the inuisible church of God we are to keep in remembrance that this discourse is of the visible church as it is seene in this world and it setteth before our eyes the matter whereof it is framed the glory wherewith it is crowned the discipline whereby it is gouerned and the estate which it enioyeth euen in this life All which matters are here set downe so necessarie vnto the esse or being of the church that the want of these or of anie of these presentlie causeth a nullitie thereof but how substantiallie these matters are prooued the particulars shall make manifest The matter whereof this church is framed is a companie of people which is faithfull c. The Authors meaning is expressed more plainely in the arguments vsed against the church of England Argument 6. The church of Christ is sanctified and made glorious without spot or wrincle or grosse pollution Againe Argument 8. The people shalbe all righteous Againe One wicked man disanulleth the couenant vnto all And in the latter end of this booke it is concluded that in this visible church is no vncleane person But was not the house of Adam the visible church of God and Cain a member of it he was vnfaithfull Was not the Arke of Noah the visible church of God and Cham preserued in it he was vnfaithfull VVas not Ismael being circumcised in Abrahams house of the visible church he was vnfaithfull VVas not Esau in the family of Isaac Achab in his raigne ouer Israel and Iudas Ischariot of the visible church all these were vnfaithfull In the visible church of God there will be tares yea vntill the haruest chaffe among the wheat goates among the sheepe hypocrites among the true professors nay to go further Antichrist for a time sitting in the temple of God and other monstrous men abiding in the church turning the grace of God into wantonnesse But they do confesse that there may be pollutions in the manners of men being secret which they leaue vnto God but if they be such spots and wrinkles as declare the church not to be glorious then no apparant church VVhat spots they can finde greater than those before mentioned I know not yet this I adde that the church at Ierusalem was not greatly glorious in the dayes of Herods tyrannie when also the office of the high Priest was diuided to two Nor from the dayes of Malachy vntill the comming of Christ during all which time there was a deepe silence of the word Nor in the captiuitie of Babylon as appeareth by the prophesie of Zacharie Nor in the daies of Hussia Iothan Achaz and Hezechia when Esay complained that there was no whole part from the sole of the foote to the head but wounds swellings and sores full of corruption Nor in the time of Dauid when the incest of one of his sonnes the traiterous attempts of another yea the sinnes committed by Dauid himself were most abhominable And yet I hope the Author will acknowledge these to haue bene the apparant church of God euen in the midst of grosse pollutions Therefore it is not necessary for the esse or being of the church apparant that euerie member therof be faithfull c. How is this therefore proued here is quoted Psal. 111. 1. I will praise the Lord with my whole heart in the secret meetings of the iust and in their congregation that is both publikely and priuatly wheresoeuer the iust do meete Also Psal. 149. 1. where he calleth the said meetings the congregation of the godly But in these places Dauid neither saith that it is vnpossible for a wicked man to ioyne with the faithfull in outward dueties nor yet that the presence of the vngodly mā can cause the assembly not to be the congregation of the iust or godly which is the matter that should haue bin concluded Now wheras the church is called an holy people Esa. 62. 12. Deut. 14. 2. it is in regard that they were the seed of him with whom the couenant was made but howsoeuer in respect hereof the adoption pertained to them the glory the couenant the giuing of the Law the seruice of God the promises of whom are the fathers and of whom concerning the flesh Christ came and therfore were called an holy people yet neither are all they Israel that are of Israel neither yet is the true Israel cleane vntil the fountaine be opened to wash away their filthinesse as for the church of Ephesus Eph. 1. 1. of Corinth Cor. 1. 2. they are indeed called saints but can we truly say that there was no pollution knowne among them the matter is plain that euē at that instant as appeareth by both the Epistles al things were not so well in these churches as were to be wished Therefore notwithstanding these churches are called saints Israel holy and the assemblie of such as worship God a congregation of the iust yet there may be a visible church of God though some member thereof be not faithfull This people saith our Author must be also holy for proofe whereof is brought Deut. 12. 5. where the people are commanded to worship in the place which the Lord should choose But I pray you when some of them obeyed not as Ieroboam who caused the people to worship in Bethel and