and i. Cor. i. Ephe. ii Gala. ii The rote of â—â— good workes Iohn v. Rom. xi maketh vs partakers of hys obeydience and ryghtuousnes so that it serueth nother more nor lesse then if it were oure owne propre Inasmuche then as Iesus Christe is in vs and we in hym that hys rightuousnes is ours and liueth in vs and dwelleth in oure hertes by fayeth and by hys holye spirite it is very certayne that that fayth can not be idle without bryngynge forthe good fruite seyng theÌ„ that he is the true vyne and good olyue tree vpon the whyche we be planted and graffed it is impossible but the fruite which we beare or bryng forth and the worke whyche we do shoulde not be to hym acceptable because of the good rote out of the whyche they spryng and bicause the celestiall father reknowledgeth the worke of hys sonne in vs for whose loue he doeth beare the imperfection whyche abydeth al wayes in oure fleshe durynge thys mortal life but it is cleane coÌ„trarie of the Infidels and reproued whyche can not be acceptable vnto God nor no workes that they can do bycause they be wythout Iesus Christe without whoÌ„ non caÌ„ be beloued of the father Nathana I do vnderstande nowe the cause whye the holye scripture doeth attribute the Iustification of man vnto fayeth and giue it so great prayses and who so euer vnderstode thys poynte as thou haste declared it should haue no occasion to be so much offended with thys doctrine as some be for they saye when the Iustification of fayeth is preached wythout Sclaunder oâ— Iustification by fayth the workes of the lawe that they wyll abolish and put awaye good workes Phylype They vnderstande verye euyl but that sclaunder doeth come of the doctryne of the Sophysters and hypocrites whyche hath learned menne to put the wayne before the oxeÌ„ as the prouerbe goeth to builde without fundation wherefore when they shoulde be reformed and otherwyse taught they do find it a newe and strange doctrine bycause they haue bene norished in suche a contrarye way Natha Tell me thys some thyng more clearlye The tre can not beare good fruite except Math. xii it be fyrste a good tre And therfore the good fruite doeth not make the tre good but the good tree makethe the fruite good but they wyll haue the fruite before the tre and wyll make the tre good by the fruite which is impossible Natha Thou speakest yet somthyng darkely Phy. Thou shalt haue it more clearlye They wyll haue rightuousnes in a man before it be in hym and wyll that he doeth workes of Iustice and ryghtuousnes and by the same to be Iustified But howe shal he do the workes of Iustice excepte he hym selfe be fyrste iuste and that can he not be but by the Iustice and ryghtuousnes of Iesus Christe and that can not he obteine but by fayth wherfore wyth good ryght is the honour of Iustification gyuen vnto fayth seynge that she is the rote and fundation of the same and of all good workes the whiche proceadeth of the same rote Nata I vnderstaÌ„d this now welynoughe but in as muche as fayeth hath such vertue declare vnto me what fayeth is Phy. Fayeth is a certayne and assured knowledge and a fyrme perswation and truste of the loue and mercy of God towardes vs for the loue of Iesus Christe hys sonne Natha A manne whych wyll haue thys faieth whole and perfitte what is he bounde to beleue Phylip. Al that is conteyned in the holye scriptures but The summe of fayth because that thys doctrine of fayeth is ample and large it is drawen into a briefe and shorte summe for the healpe sucoure of the weakenes and infirmitie of the humaine vnderstandynge and the memorie of the pore and simple people Natha What vnderstandest thou by that shorte summe is it the crede of the Apostles Phy. It is the verye same Nathana Wherfore is it called the Crede of the Apostles Phy. Bycause it is a short summe of the doctrine Apostolyke and a whole some conteynynge in fewe wordes the principal poyntes and articles of the fayth and christian religion Natha I desyre muche that thou woldest declare it vnto me poynte by poynte for it doeth not suffice to can saye it by herte and confesse it wyth the mouthe speakynge as the pies wyth out vnderstandynge what we do saye Phy. It is verye certayne that the confessioÌ„ of the mouth profiteth litle except it procede of faith froÌ„ the herte Nata That vnderstand I well and therfore do I desyre to haue a more playne vnderstandynge for howe can I perfectly beleue that which is coÌ„teined therin without the vnderstaÌ„ding of it for it is not possible that in those fewe wordes shoulde be comprehended al the apostolyke doctrine but it conteyneth greate matters and many goodly poyntes worthy to be well expounded and opened Phylype Thou takeste it not a misse and seynge the good desyre that thou haste I am verye well contente to satisfie the same but nowe I haue no conueniente leysure for it caÌ„ not be so shortely done wherefore thou shalte haue a litle patience vnto anone when I shall haue a more conueniente leysure the better to satisfie thy desyre Nata That is very resonable reasoÌ„ doeth require that I which would be taughte take the tyme whyche seameth to the moste mete but if thou â—arye longe I will come put the in remembraunce Phy. Thou shalt do well and fare thou wel to oure nexte meatynge God conducte and brynge the agayne shortlye ⧠In thys seconde dialoge is declared the fyrste parte of the Crede of the Apostles in the whyche is spoken of the trinitie and vnitie of God and pryncipallye of the father and of the proprietie vnto hym distributed and of the creation of all thynges and what fruite we oughte to beare NAthanaell I trust thou hast not forgotten the promise thou made vnto me therfore I am come to put the in remembraunce Phy. If thou haddeste not come I determined to haue come to the but thou hast preuented me Natha The greate desire that I haue to here vnderstaÌ„de the thinges that we haue communed of togither hath enflamed and steared me forward Phy. If thou haue a greate desire to heare I haue no lesse to expounde and confarre wyth the for what communication maye we deuise more honest and profitable or for better recreation then to common of oure fayth religioÌ„ and of the goodnes mercie of God toward vs. Natha There is no doubte and therfore I praye the begyn to enter into the matter Phy. The better to reduce al thinge by ordre recite firste the Crede to the ende that wyth freshe memorye we maye well considre that whyche it doeth conteyne in generall and after we shal expound it by particulers Nathanaell I beleue in God the father almyghtye maker of heauen and earth And in Iesu Christ hys onely sonne our Lord
myghtye wynde when he gaue hys holye spirite vnto hys Apostles Phylyp There is no doubte but he dyd it to The holye spirite sheweâ— in wynde signifie that as the winde suffereth the Rociers the litle and small trees and ouerthroweth by the rootes breaketh down broseth and maketh ruinous the greate myghtye trees So the vertue of thys holy spirite is to bring consolation to the hertes aflicted to purge the consciences to iudge the euile to ouerthrowe and sette downe the proude and to vpholde beare vp the weake and humble Natha If we wyll then haue anye thynge of God we muste obteygne it by Iesus Christe workynge in vs by hys holie spirite Phylip. It is euen so for by hym all the beleuers be vnite in one self body with their head Iesus Christe and be nourished and vinified in hym as by the soule and spirite all the meÌ„bres whyche be in one bodye be partakers of the goodnes which is in the same body Natha I beleue for that cause we put to by by after thys article the which appertayneth nyghe vnto the churche the whych is the bodye of Iesus Christ of the whyche thou speakeste of vinifiynge sanctifiynge by the same holy Gooste for we do saye by and by after the catholyke churche Phy. There is no doubte Natha In asmuch theÌ„ as we haue treated the other three partes The church of the crede that we be come to the fourth whyche concerneth the churche daughter of the celestiall father spouse of Iesus Christe tell me fyrste what thou callest the church Phy. Churche signifieth congregation and assemble Eph. v but I do take it and vnderstaÌ„d it here for the asseÌ„ble of the true and faythful christians whyche be vnite coÌ„ioyned by one selfe spirite and one selfe fayeth Natha Is there anye other church then the churche of the faithfull Phy. As we do cal the bodye and membres of Iesu Christe the churche so hath Antichriste hys body and membres whyche togyther make the malignaunt churche but for asmuche as that toucheth vs in nothynge we leaue it aparte and speake only here of the tru The malygnant church church of Iesu Christe therfore do we cal it holy Natha For what cause Phy. To put difference betwene hyr and the church of Antichriste and for asmuche as she is sanctified by the holye Goste for to be the temple and habitatioÌ„ of God Natha Wher fore doest thou also call it catholike what signifieth that worde catholyke Catholike Phy. It doeth signifie vniuersal and therfore do I saye I beleue the vniuersall churche bycause the churche doeth signifie all assembles and congregation where the fayethfull be assembled as is the church of Choâ—hi of Rome Galathiens and othere lyke I wyll declare that there is one catholyke churche that is to saye vniuersall and generall comprehending all the other the whyche is generallye sowen thorowe all the worlde onelye knowen of the onelye God whiche knoweth the hertes Natha If she be sowen thorowe all the world how is she a church seing that church signifieth coÌ„gregatioÌ„ asseÌ„ble so as thou sayeste it should seeme rather to disperation seperation and confution Phylype Therefore muste we considre thys The churche inuisible churche spirituallye and muste not thynke it to be a visible and local assemble sette and limited in a certaine place Nathana Howe vnderstandest thou thys or howe can the churche be inuisible seyng it is the assemble of the fayethful whyche be visible menne Phy. I denye not but that the men whyche be of the churche be visible but thys ioynynge togyther of the churche oughte not to be considered of the coniunction of the bodies but of the hertes spirits that be inuisible which none cause and therefore notwythstandinge I see the menne that be of thys churche wheÌ„ they be presente wyth me yet neuertheles I The churche mingeled thorowe all the worlde can not see them all because they be sparkeled abrode thorowe all the worlde and thoughe they myght be assembled all in one place yet coulde I not knowe them perfectlye because that the elected shal neuer be so wel seperated in thys worlde frome the infidels and reproued but there shall be alwayes manye hypocrites mingled amonge them the whyche we can not wel deserue nor iudge vnto such time as Iesus Christe shall make seperation of the Math. xxv goâ—es from the lambes and of the wheate froÌ„ the tares therfore do I saye that thys church is inuisible because the eye caÌ„ not se it nor the humayne iudgmeÌ„t wel deserue it therfore do we saye we beleue it for if we did se it at our eye wee beleued not but notwythstandynge we can not se it at our eye yet we beleue that the Lorde hathe hys elected whyche notwithstandynge they be sparkeled aboute thorowe all the worlde as touchynge theyr bodies be yet neuertheles so ioyned togither by the spirite of God that they be but one selfe bodye one selfe herte and one selfe soule Act. ii iiii Natha Thou wylt then saye that the vniuersall churche is a spirituall and inuisible asseÌ„ble of all the elected and chyldrene of God whyche be vpon the earth in what place so euer they be whyche notwythstandinge they be seperated and farre distaunte one frome a nother as concerninge theyr bodyes yet they be all vnite by one selfe spirite into one body misticall of the whyche Christe is the head Col. i. ii whyche dyed for to assemble the chyldrene of God that were sparkeled but if thys church be inuisible howe canste thou saye thou beleueste in hyr and that thou holdeste hyr fayth howe canste thou knowe what she is what she beleueth if thou know hir not Phylype I saye not that I beleue in hyr Natha Doeste not thou confesse I beleue in the holye Gost the holye vniuersal churche Phy. I do saye and confesse openlye I beleue in God the father and in Iesu Christ and in the holye Gooste but of the churche I do not saye I beleue in the holye churche but I beleue the holye churche Nathana Is it not all one what difference is there Phy. Verye greate For if I sayed I beleue in the holye church I should coÌ„fesse that I put my trust in hyr as I haue sayed before to beleue in God and the churche is not god but is an asseÌ„ble of men cursed is man that trusteth in man wherfore if I sayed I beleue Iere. xvii in hyr I should speake agaynste my self and should reuerse the fayeth which I haue coÌ„fessed hytherto Nathana Declare vnto me the differeÌ„ce Phi. By expositioÌ„s going befor it is opeÌ„ inough what seÌ„ce mi words should haue if I sayed I beleue in the church But when I do saye I beleue the holie churche that is to saye I beleue and confesse that ther is an assemble by the whyche I haue diffined the churche and that in the same I wyll lyue and dye Natha Howe wylt
thou lyue and dye in hyr when thou knowest not where she is Phy. Although I can not perceiue nor know al that be coÌ„prised in it yet neuertheles I haue certayne sygnes by the whyche I know am assured what she is Nathanaell What be those sygnes Phy. In all places coÌ„panies Syngnes to knowe the church by â— where as the worde of God is purelye opened receyued the sacrameÌ„tes of Iesu Christ obserued and kept I am certaine that there is of the shepe of Iesus Christe of the elected or otherwyse hys voyce should not be opened nor yet receyued Natha Thou wylt then saye that the worde of god the sacrameÌ„tes of Iesu Christ be indubitable signes of the same but manie speak of Iesus Christe and make semblant to heare hys worde whych be hypocrites beleue not in hym as Iudas was and suche â—yke And coÌ„trariewyse there be many vnknoweÌ„ which be estemed vnhappy damned yet haue faith shall atteyne to the kyngdome of heauen be fore them that shewe greate apparant as Iesus Christe dyd saye the harlottes publicaÌ„s Math. xxii shoulde obteigne it before the scribes phariseis Phy. Therefore haue I sayed that thys churche is inuisible vnknowen vnto me not bicause we se not with the bodily eyes the meÌ„ whyche be of it but because that man can not se the hertes nor can not deserue nor knowe whether the man that he seeth beleueth or no Ephe. ii how holie soeuer he seme nor none caÌ„ know it but the onlie God which gyueth the fayth knoweth the herte that receyueth it Nathan Thou art then ofteÌ„ begiled thinking that the church is wher the gospel is preached the in stitutioÌ„ of Iesus obserued seing that they that be ther do such thyngs may be such as Iudas Act. i. v. viii SimoÌ„ magus Ananias Saphira weâ— Phylip. Albeit that suche hypocrites maye be mingled in greate numbre amonge the faithful which be alwayes the lytle flocke yet neuertheles it is certayne that amonge them be some of Christes shepe for els God woulde not permit nor suffer that the preciouse pearles and margarites of hys holye Gospell shoulde be caste before dogges swine only Natha What if the wolues swine and dogs call theim selues shepe and in stede of the gospell sette forthe theyr owne dreames and humayne traditious howe causte thou knowe deserue the churche â— Cor. xii Phy. The Lorde hathe lefte vs hys holye scriptures for to iudge and deserue by the analogie of the fayeth and the rule of charitie whether the spirites be of God or not whether the spirit in the which I beleue do raigne the whyche is gyuen vnto the elected for to iudge all thynges for the spirituall man iudgeth all thynges and is iudged of no man Thâ— roman churche Natha And is not the romayne churche that holie catholyke church which thou beleueste and must be folowed Phy. If the romayne churche do abyde and perseuer in the apostolyke doctrine I wyl reknowledge hyr a churche of Iesus Christ inasmuche as she declareth hir selfe to be the spouse of Iesus Christe in obeying vnto him as vnto hyr heade and for to lyue vndre hys lawes and ordinaunces but yet maye I not take it for thys vniuersal church of the which we haue spoken for she can be but a meÌ„bre of that churche no more then other congregations and other christian churches that be abrode in the uniuersall world seperated both in places and bodies and yet ioyned in spirite and soule makynge all togyther one vniuersall churche Nathan But is not the Romayne church the heade of all the other vnto the whyche all the other oughte to obeye as subiectes Phy. If she be head she is no more theÌ„ nother spouse nor membre of hys body suche as the faythfull ought to be if she wyll haue dominion gyue lawes vnto other she is no more a churche of Iesus but is the churche of Antechriste whyche attributeth vnto hyr self the office appertayninge vnto Christe for the office of the churche is not to gyue lawes vnto hyr but receiue them of hym and to make hyr selfe subiecte vndre the same Natha The churche then whych wyll exarcise power ouer the other gyue theim other lawes then the Gospell of Iesu is no churche of Christe bycause hys spirite reygneth not ther but to what purpose serueth it to beleue the vniuersal churche Phy. Without that article al the reste goyng before shoulde serue me for nothyng For all that we haue sayed of God that we beleue of the father of the sonne and of the holye Goste hath regarde vnto thys churche without the whyche all oure faith should be vaine for in this crede we do not considre what god is in hym selfe but what he is towardes vs whyche be hys churche and by what meanes he hath willed hyr to be deliuered conserued ruled gouerned wherefore al that we haue treated here before pretendeth to thys end for we muste nedes haue layed thys fundatioÌ„ to buylde after thereupon thys edifice wythout the whythe the fundation shoulde profitte vs in nothynge if we were not surelye builded there vpon Nathana I vnderstande well that thou haste sayed of the vniuersall churche but I desyre yet much to knowe what thou vnderstandest by the communion of sayntes Phy. I vnderstande here no other thyng but that whyche I haue alreadye sayed that is to saye the holye vniuersall churche but this we put to the better to declare the vnite that is amoÌ„ge the faithful for as in one towne in one coÌ„mon wealth in one coÌ„munaltie coÌ„munioÌ„ amoÌ„ge the inhabitauÌ„ces citizens membres that be within it so likewise in the churche of Iesu christ ther is one vnite aliauÌ„ce burgelie brotherhede whyche after such sort conioyneth the bodie with hys head Iesus Christe all the membres the one wyth the other that they haue no goods that is not coÌ„mune amoÌ„g theÌ„ nor that the one doth not coÌ„municate vnto the other for Iesu Christ coÌ„municateth al his goodes to his membres al the goodes that he doth coÌ„municate to his churche returneth or coÌ„meth to euerie one of his meÌ„bres in perticuler euerye one receyueth his parte as the meÌ„bres the which the head doth coÌ„municate vnto them as the soule whyche is shed thorowe all the bodye giueth life vnto all the meÌ„bres of the same Nath. It is then no small benifite to be in the churche of Iesus Christe-nor no smal euil to be out of that churche Phy. It is with theÌ„ that be without as wyth the braunche that is cut of the vine or as the bowgh or twigge cut of the tre the which froÌ„ theÌ„se forth can haue nother nourishmente nor life but must neades drie away is good for nothing but to be cast in the fyre Na. They which be excommunicate be they out of thys coÌ„munioÌ„ Phylip. The word of
we shoulde neuer be in feare of any thynge for in asmuch as we be assured that God hath al in hys hande and that he is alwayes so doing that nothyng can be done neither in heauen nor in earth wythout hys councel ordinaunce and that there is no creature that can do any thing not so much as to make tof al a leafe from a tre or to make an hed hear whyt or black without his wil. And hauyng leaue Math. x Math. v of him beyng suer of the other part that nether he wylleth or doth any thynge but it is good and ther is nothynge good but he willeth it what ought we then to feare Is ther any creature that may noy vs Phi. In that it Genes i doeth appeare that we be al hypocrites and that we do not beleue God to be the father almyghtie Seing we be so fearfull Nathanaell When I do consyder well these thynges it doeth seeme vnto me that they whiche do praye vnto the angelles or holy sayntes Inuocation of sayntes or put their truste in any creature whatsoeuer it be hath not truly that fayeth whyche thou confessist Philip. They be as farre of as from the heaueÌ„ vnto the earth For if they dyd beleue that God were their father as they do confesse hym wyth their mouthe thei shoulde rather haue their recourse hope and refuge in hym then in any other Nathanaell But they saye they haue their recourse vnto hym and put in hym their truste But they do it the better to obteyne hys fauoure fearynge leste because of their synnes he wyll not heare them Wherefore thei do truste that when thei do ioyne the saintes wyth hym that they shall be soner succoured And that they shall be soner exalted or lyfte vp by their intercession Philip. What other thynge is thys then to denie that he is God nor oure father Nathanaell Wherefore Phi. If he be God father almightie we muste not doubte but he maye do all what he wyll as wel in heaueÌ„ as in earth for he hath the power and if we doubt not in his power no more oughte we not to mistruste in hys wyll hys wisdome and goodnes If then we beleue that he is oure God father not carnal mortal and weake lacking power but almighty eternal in whoÌ„ may or do we trust that maye better or soner healpe vs then he whyche is allmyghtye who shall haue more affection to do it then he that is oure father who can do it better or in time for vs most requisite then he whyche is the fountayne and sprynge of all power wysdome and goodnes Natha Thy reasons be so open and manifeste that none can say agayuste them by the whiche I do clarly knowe that al they which haue recourse and confidence and do make prayer or inuocation vnto anye other but to God be hypocrites lyers when they wyth mouthe do saye the prayer of oure Lorde Iesus Christe thys crede callynge God their father whyche they do not beleue seyng they denye hym by theyr workes the whyche do opeÌ„ and beare witnes what is in theyr hertes Phy. They be suche as the prophet speaketh of they drawe nere vnto God wyth theyr lyppes honour hym wyth theyr mouthes but theyr hertes be verie farre from hym Natha All thys is well expounded but tell me yet further wherfore thou putteste to thinges goynge before creator of heauen earth Phy. For to declare that he is the author the begynnynge and the originall of all thynges whyche he hathe all made and hath not bene made as the Goddes of the panymes which they haue taken and chosen amongest men haue not made one so exceleÌ„t a work as the artificers whyche be mortall men and can do nothynge of theÌ„ selues excepte they haue the matter and the instrumentes propre and conueniente for the purpose but he hath made all of nothynge wythout healpe councel or assistence of anye maner creature by hym selfe hys eternall worde as all the scriptures do gyue cleare testimonie and principally Moyses whyche doeth largly discryue the historie Psal Cxiii Esai iiii Gene. i. ii of the makynge of the worlde thys addition then doeth not onelye deliuer vs from the errour of the Epicures whyche denye the prouidence of God but also from that of the peripatticiens and other made philosophers whyche haue holden and affirmed that the worlde was eternall and that it was not created whych is a doctrine to tuâ—â—ie vpsedown al the order of God al religion and al goodnes furthermore thys worde admonisheth vs howe we oughte to learne to knowe God Gods creatures be hys Images by hys caeatures and to beholde hym in theÌ„ seynge that he is inuisible and incomprehensible in hys essence and maiestie for all thys presente worlde is as a shope in the whyche God this souerayne workmaster dothe open This worlde is the shop temple of God set abrode hys workes to the ende that by the same the worker be knowen Thys world is also a churche or a temple in the whyche there is not so lytle a creature but it is an Image of his creatour a mirrour or glasse to shewe and manifeste hym vnto vs wherefore it doeth followe that they whyche wyl represente God by Image made wyth handes of men do hym greate wronge and do not well vnderstande thys article for what similitude hath the worke of manne wyth the worke of God Or whych shal better represeÌ„t the great workeman hys owne workes or the workes of men whyche be nothynge lyke or in comparison to hys excepte we wyl compare in liynge and vnstablenes Natha I do well vnderstand all thys but seynge that he is father and creatour of al thynges wherefore calleste thou him onelye creatour of heauen and earth Phy. Bicause that those two creatures which be the most excellente and manifest vnto man do conprehend all the other whyche be in them comprised or that be neighbour or nerer vnto theyr nature Nathanaell What wylte thou vnderstande Diuers significations of the firmameÌ„t by the heauen Phyl. As the heauen is taken in diuers significations in the holy scriptures so I do vnderstande diuers thynges accordynge to the significations whyche be to him appropried Nathanoell What be those significations Phy. The fyrste and moste vulgar and commune signification is when we vnderstande the firmamente whyche couereth all and the speres celestiall in the whyche bee conteyned as well the sterres as the plannettes for to serue vnto man Natha Signifieth it anye more Phy. Thys name is also vsurped very The troue of God often for the ayre and for the regions nere the celestial speres bicause they do approch more nere vnto hys nature and that they bee elementes more pure Natha Is ther any more or other signification Phy. Forasmuche also as man can not sufficientlye distriue the maiestie of God but by humayne thynges and ther is no fayrer more noble
thyrd we shall set forth the fruite whyche of these thynges cometh vnto vs. In the forthe we shall speake of hys bodye glorified and of hys last commynge tell me then what foloweth and shewe vpoÌ„ what poyntes thou desierest most large and easye declaration Natha It doeth followe I beleue in Iesus Christe hys onely Beleue in Christe sonne oure Lorde etc. how vnderstandest thou thys and what is the sence of these wordes Phy. They signifie that I do truste all holye in Iesus Christe the true sonne of God and that I beleue in hun as in the father that bi hym the father hath deliuered me from death and eternall damnation and hathe reconsiled me vnto hym selfe receyued me vnto hys fauour by hys welbeloued sonne whyche hath satisfied for me vnto hys Iustice and hath obteyned me eternall lyfe Natha Thou confesseste then that Iesus Christe is God seynge thou beleueste in hym for thou haste already sayed that we muste not put our truste but in one only God Phylype If I dyd not beleue that he were trulye God of one selfe essence power and equalitie with the father I shoulde be vnhappye to beleue or truste in hym seyng that the prophet doeth pronounce Iudge Cursed Ieremi xvii be he that doeth truste in man and taketh flesh for hys arme Natha And Iesus Christ is he not man Phylype He is verye man and in all thynges hathe been lyke vnto vs excepte synne but he is not simplie man as we be but beyng made manne is neuertheles alwayes verye God and the verye sonne of God as alreadye it hathe bene expounded wherefore when I do say in the begynning of the Crede I beleue in God I do speake say ingeneral that which afterwarde I do more playnlye expresse and opeÌ„ declaryng howe that in the essence of one God in one deitie I do recognise and confesse the father the sonne and the holy Goste thre personnes in one selfe substaunce diuinitie Natha Thys same is meruelouse hye and difficullte to be comprehended For howe can I perceyue and vnderstande them to be thre and yet neuertheles they be but one Phylype Wee muste not be abasshed if these mistiries surmounte the capacitie of oure vnderstandynges for if we can not knowe oure selues nor the lest creature that is in the world perfectly and such as he is in hys nature no not so muche as a litle mouse or a litle grasse or herbe whyche we do euerye daye se howe is it possible that we shoulde perfectlye know the creatour of all the worlde and is not able to be comprehended but is incomprehensible vnto all creatures yea vnto the Angels themselues Nathanaell I do confesse it but canste thou not by summe maner of speakyng more clearly gyue lyght vnto these thyngs so profound and darcke Phy. I can not but by the printes impressions Images of God whyche God hath put of hys Image in hys creatures I wyll shewe as it were a shadowe but as for to paint him liuelye it is not possible vnto maÌ„ we can not better remeÌ„bre nor knowe hym then in theÌ„ portreture which he hathe made vs of hym selfe in hys holye scriptures and in the lyuely Images whyche he hath portretured wyth hys hande and imprinted in hys creatures as I haue all readye declared vnto the an example of the sunne Natha I take greate pleasure in suche similitudes and comparisous and principally bicause thou hast shewed me that the auncieÌ„t doctours of the church haue willinglye vsed the same could not find am other more coÌ„uenieÌ„t Phy. Wythout goynge or sekynge anye further let vs abide in the sunne fyrst when thou beholdest it thou seeste there is but one in all the worlde whyche neuertheles is sufficiente vnto all creatures and notwythstandynge that it is but one creature of God and one Image of that greate fountayne of al lyghte which is in the father of lyght Neuertheles it is not possible vnto the humayne eyes to comprehende it and caste hys loke stâ—ayâ—e into hym for if he do loke ryghte into hym hys greate clearnes and lyght wyl take hys syght frome hym and make hym in maner all blyude bycause that the littlenes weaknes and infirmitie can not beare it then if the eye whyche is created of God for to receiue lyght can not beholde the sunne in his substaunce nor beare hys lyghte how should the humayne vnderstandynge whyche is so streite and weake coÌ„prehend the great kynge of glorye and maiestie whyche compreheÌ„deth in hym selfe al creatures and can not be comprehended of them all togither suche as he is in hys maiesty Natha Here is all readie manye goodlye properties to gyue vnderstandynge what we maye knowe of God Phy. There is yet other considerations for all be it thou seeste but one sunne in hys substaunce yet neuertheles thou canste not se nor considre it but thou shalt se thre thynges the whyche can not be seperated the one from the other caÌ„ not be the one without the other yet neuertheles the one is that the other is yet alwayes the same is but one selfe sunne Natha It is verye true that when I considre the sonne I do se it an original grounde and fountayne of lyght the whyche neuertheles I can not se but by hys beames and by hys clearnes nor feele it but by his heate vertu Phy. Thou doest experiment in thys sâ—dane contemplation and apprehendyng one sunne doest fal into an vnitie after incontineÌ„t out of that vnitie thou falleste agayne into a trinitie in suche sorte that it doeth seme vnto the that there is three thynges and after consideringe thre thou coÌ„mest agayne in the ende alwaye to one and further if one shoulde aske the of the bodye of the sunne what it is what wouldest thou answer Natha That it is the sunne Phy. And if one shoulde aske the also of hys beames and of hys heate wouldeste thou not call it also the sunne Natha That is certayne for wheÌ„ his beames or hys heate or hys clearnes do enter into any place we do saye the sunne is entered and if by the heate of the sunne anye thyng be doÌ„e we do say the sunne hath done it Phy. Thou doeste se theÌ„ how it semeth that thou makeste thre sunnes and yet thou knowest nor doeste not confesse alwaies but one Nata It is true but maye we saye so of God the father the sonne and the holye Goste Phy. As well may we when we speake of the sonne and of the holy Goste cal them Goddes as we maye the heate and clearnes of the sunne the sunne But there is in this a greate differeÌ„ce for that which is a qualitie a thing accidental in the sunne is in God essence and a thynge essentiall and substanciall abyding alwayes resident in hym And euen as we do take a similitude and comparison of the sunne so may we do lykewyse of the humain Comparison taken of the soule soule for
sparkled thorowe al the worlde there is no creature nor liuynge man that can be the heade seynge there is not that can be in all places where she is nor that can gyue hyr ayde and assistence suche as to hyr is requisite but the onelye Iesus Christe the whyche by hys diuine power and by hys holye spirite fulfilleth the heauen and the earth and is present vnto all hys elected the whiche he doeth leade conducte gouerne and vinifie whyche non other can or maye do wherefore what so euer he be that wyll make hym selfe heade of thys churche whereof he oughte to be but a membre he is neyther heade nor mēbre but doeth make hym selfe a mēbre of Antichriste and hathe chosen Satan for his head in asmuche as he setteth him selfe in the place of Iesus Christe settyng vp hym selfe aboue hym not knowledgynge him for his head vnto whom boeth Angelles and men oughte to be subiectes for S. Paul shewyng the fruites of the resurrection and ascention of Iesus Ephe. i. iiii Colo. i. ii Christe wryteth howe that God hath exalted and set hym vp aboue all heauens and aboue all the thrones powers Lordeshyppes and dominions and hathe gyuen hym to be heade of hys churche Natha I vnderstande wel what thou wouldeste saye I shall holde me then vnto hym and wyll neuer acknoweledge other head of that triumphant churche but shall holde for hys ministers the true ministers and pastours of his churche and the other whyche wyll attribute vnto them selues that dignitie for verye Antichristes But lette vs come nowe vnto that thou haste promised me and declare vnto me what example we maye take of all the historie of oure lorde Iesus Christ Phy. That were very longe to be recounted and tolde for ther is nothynge so litle whiche cōteineth not greate sacramēts misterie but I wyll onelye sette forth the thynge vnto the in two wordes by the which thou maist iudg of al the reste The historie of our lord Iesus Christe serueth vs for an example in two maners and fyrste howe we oughte to confirme How the historie of Iesu christ serueth for exemple oure selues vnto hym as concernynge oure regeneration and spirituall lyfe whyche is hidden in him the other howe we oughte to confirme oure selues vnto hym in oure outwarde lyuynge cōuersatiō Natha The more thou wouldeste make the thynges shorte the more they seme darke vnto me wherfore I pray the thynke not muche nor spare me nother tyme nor wordes but expounde me the thynges so largly that I may haue cleare vnderstandynge of them and tell me the fyrste poynte what vnderstandeste thou by the spirituall lyfe of the whych the historie of Iesus Christ serueth vs for an example Phylype I vnderstande that all the lyfe of Iesus Christe oughte fyrste to serue vs as an allegorye by the whyche we oughte spirituallye to yelde oure selues to be conformable vnto Iesus Christe in that whyche verelye riallye hathe bene accomplished in hys bodie the which can not be in ours Natha Thou speakest not much clearlier thē thou dydeste therefore declare vnto me that whych thou wouldeste say by exemple Phy. I am contente Iesus Christe hath beene conceiued by the holy Gost borne of the virgyn Marye he hath bene crucified dead buried is rysen agayne and gone vp into heauē all whyche thynges can not be accomplished in oure bodies as they haue bene in hys But lette vs take payne that oure spirite maye in the same be conformable vnto hym oure bodies be conceyued and borne in synne and iniquitie not of the holy Goste in the wombe of a vyrgin but of corruptible seede and then for to be conformable vnto hym in thys lette vs nowe come vnto hys church beleue in hys Gospell and in the same whyche is oure mother and a virgin pure and chast we shal be conceyued and begotten by the incorruptible seede of the word of God our father and by Spiritual cōceptiō birth Gala. iiii i. Petre. ii Iohn xxxi Ephe. iiii the vertue of hys holye spirite shal be borne agayne chyldrene of God and shall be newe creatures and put of the olde manne and put on the newe bearynge the Image of the newe Adam whyche is Iesus Christe as wee haue borne that of the olde and of the synfull man Natha Beholde for thys is a holye conception and happye byrth Phy. Then in asmuche as we be all ready so conceyued of the holye Goste and borne of that pure virgin the churche whyche is the spouse of Iesus it muste followe also that the Eph. v. reste of oure lyfe be conformable vnto that of Iesus Christe accordynge to our spirituall conception natiuitie and byrthe We be not crucified nor put vnto death as he was but learne we of him to beare our crosse To be crucified with christ wyth him to be crucified vnto the worlde the worlde vnto vs as saynte Paule doeth write of hym selfe Nathana And howe can we be crucified vnto the worlde and the worlde vnto vs Phylyp When we dye vnto the world likewise dieth the world vnto vs. Na. These maner of speakynges To die to the worlde be verye darke Phy. They be darke vnto them whyche be not acquaynted or accustomed wyth the maner of speaking of the Apostles But I do vse ◠wyllynglye boeth to accustome the and bycause I do take pleasure in the stile of the spirite of God and of his Apostles To be crucified and dead vnto the worlde that is to be crucified dead vnto sinne and that is to forsake Rom. vi synne to haue no more acquayntaunce wyth hym and to do him no more seruice thē the dead do vnto the lyuynge for as the dead haue nothynge in commune wyth the liuinge but be seperated the one frome the other and haue no more acquayntaunce togyther euen so be they deade vnto the world which haue forsaken it to serue God and wyl no more be conformable vnto it that is to saye vnto the fleshe nor vnto hys concupiscences so is it impossible but they whiche be thus dead vnto the worlde liue vnto God and the worlde To liue vnto the worlde lykewise dead vnto them by the contrarye they whyche lyue vnto the worlde and vnto whom the worlde lyueth be dead vnto God as the Apostle doeth wryte of the voluptuous wydowe sayinge the wydowe whyche i Timo. ii doeth lyue in lustes pleasures in so lyuyng is dead and bicause that she lyueth vnto the worlde she is dead vnto God so then when we dye vnto the worlde we ryse vnto God and do practise in oure selues the exemple of the death and passiō of Iesus Christ spiritually whē we mortify our earthlye mēbres offer our bodies as lyuyng sacrifices vnto god Roma xii Colo. iii. and do kil by the swerd of the worde and do burne vp by the fyre of his spirite oure cōcupiscence carnall affectiōs lustes whiche be
vnto the infideles and hypocrites for they maye wel hold them selues for assured that theyr infidelitie hypocrisie shall be distroyed and theyr glory shal be turned into shame and confusion And in asmuche as we be coÌ„men thus far forth it doeth seme vnto me that these mattiers haue bene sufficientlye declared and al the misterie of our redemption after such sort that I hold my selfe verye well satisfied for my part and bicause I feare to make the werye wyth takynge ouer muche of the at once let vs here make a reste to an other tyme. Phylyp Thou canste not make me werye in suche mattiers yet neuertheles I am coÌ„tente to folowe thyne aduice Farewell Natha To God I commende the vnto whoÌ„ I praye to gyue vs suche grace that we maye at that greate daye of Iudgmente be found blameles and irreprehensible by the fauour merites of Iesus Christe Phy. So be it ⧠In these ii laste diologes is opened the other parte of the crede the which do concerne the holy Goste and the church wherein is declared that whyche appertayneth to the one and the other and is shewed what is the true churche of Iesu Christ what is hyr polesie ministration what goodes she receiued of him Nathanaell IN as muche as we haue done the greatest parte Phylype I shall desyre the to haue pacience and to take the paine to expound vnto me the reste that we maye se the end of thys mattier Phy. It is reason and I wyll not deuye the my payne seynge it bryngeth â—o lesse consolation vnto me then to the. Natha It semeth vnto me that there be yet two partes to be declared the one of the holye Goste and the other of the churche Phyly It is true but we maye well conioyne that of the holye Goste wyth that of the churche go forth as we haue begonne Natha It doeth folowe I beleue in the holye Beleue in the holy gost Goste it is no further neade that I shoulde aske howe thou vnderstandeste thys for by that thou haste alreadie declared vnto me the fayeth thou haste in the father and in the son I vnderstande wel thou confesseste that thou putteste all thy truste in the holye Gooste And that thou beleueste that by the same the father and the sonne doeth sanctifie the as by Iesus Christe thou art iustified by the vertu of the same holye spirite Phylype It is true Natha Notwythstandynge I vnderstande that yet woulde I verye gladlye thou wouldeste expounde me more largelye what thou vnderstandest properly by thys holy spirite Phy. The same vertue power mouynge and efficatie of God by the which the father and The holy gost the sonne worketh in vs nourisheth viuefieth as we haue all readye sayed in declaryng oure fayeth of the father and the sonne Natha In asmuche as thou beleueste in him thou holdeste hym for a God as wel as thou doeste the father the sonne Phy. Yea wythout doubte for I vnderstande not by thys anye maner of thyng out of god or besyde God but in God of hys propre substaunce Na. Wherefore callest thou hym spirite the father the sonne be they not also spirite seinge thou confesseste they be God that Iesus Christe doeth openlye testifie that Ihon. iiii God is a spirite the whyche muste be honored in spirite and trueth Phy. I deme not but God is a spirite and so by consequence the father the sonne but we must first considre The signification of the word spirite what is the signification of thys sayinge spirite and whether we speake of the essence and vnitie of God or of the distinctions which be in the same which the auncient fathers haue called the persones of the trinitie Natha And what is the propre signification of thys same vocable spirite Phy. I haue saied before that maÌ„ caÌ„ not find propre wordes as to speake of diuine thinges but muste borowe them of humayne thynges by similitude of the same declare the thynges celestiall and spirituall Natha I remeÌ„bre it well but tel me theÌ„ what is the natural significatioÌ„ of this same word and howe it agreeth wyth God Phy. Spirite signifieth properlie inspiration blowing wynd bycause ther is nothinge more subtille amonge corporall thynges nor that lesse can be perceiued by vewe or syghte theÌ„ the wind and the spirite it is ofteÌ„ tasteÌ„ in the scriptur for to signifie the things inuisible diuine Na. Therefore I thinke we call the soule vnderstaÌ„ding spirit not that it should be taken but for a wind but bicause it is inuisible sodaynd lyght as the wynd Phy. EueÌ„ so likewise God is called a spirite not that we shuld thinke that he were nothing eles but a wynde whych passeth but to make vs vnderstand that we ought not to Imagin that he shoulde be anye maner of thynge visible materiall or mortall but one nature essence perfecte inuisible incorruptible and immortall whyche wyll also be serued with the herte and theÌ„ soule of the spirite and vnderstandynge whyche be immortall not wyth ceremonies corruptible thinges Nathana Accordynge to thys signification the father the sonne and the holye Gooste be then al called spirite and all for one cause but expounde vnto me wherefore thou calleste more perticularlye the holye Gooste spirite then thou doest the father and the sonne Phy. WheÌ„ I behold the diuine esseÌ„ce vnitie of god I call them al spirites but when I coÌ„sidre the personal distinction of the whych we haue spoken here before I do then principally call the thyrde personne spirite bycause that worde doeth better open hys propertie then anye other we can fynde Thou muste also vnderstand that often tymes in the scripture The holie spirite for hys gyftes and graces Esai xi i. Cor. xii the holye Goste is taken not for the essence substaunce of hym selfe but also for hys giftes and graces Nath. Wherfore callest thou hym holye Phy. For to deserue hym from creatures and for to declare that I speake of that vertue power and mouynge of God whych is in God by the whych the father by his sonne Iesus doeth sanctifâ—e saue and vinifie vs. Nathana What callest thou holy Phy. A thynge pure and ferme seperated froÌ„ all corruption pollution and from all prophane carnal vsage a thing whole entier and inuiolate and all togyther dedicate vnto God I â—al theÌ„ the holy gost because he is such in dede and that by hym God in Iesu Christ sanctifieth maâ—ne that is to saye he purgeth maketh cleane consecrateth and dedicateth hym whollye to hym lelfe seperatynge hym from all vyle and prophane vsages to serue The christian sayutes onelye vnto hym Therfore also be the christians called sayntes because they be anoynted wyth that oyntemente and wythdrawen froÌ„ the seruitude of the deuyll coÌ„secrate by Iesus Christe for to serue the onelye God Natha I vnderstande nowe wherfore Iesus Christe dyd sende a greate
coulde not be but in hym that was fullye endued wyth the gooddes of fortune of the bodye and of the soule whyche to fynde in anye one man it were verye harde And by thys doctrine the prophettes Thre kyndes of godnesse Apostles and true childreÌ„ of God should not be verye happye and blessed and the doctrine of Iesu Christ should not be true which doth pronounce happy and blessed the poore in spirite the aflicted and persecuted for ryghtuousnes sake and they whyche haue honger thriste and whych wepe and morne Na. Therefore there be other that haue put Math. v. Luke vi the souerayne goodnes of man in vertu Phy. Those haue well perceyued and felte the inconueniences whych I haue before touched but for all that they coulde not hytt the whytte for they dyd neuer well vnderstand what was the true vertu that might leade vnto that soueraigne goodnesse and wyth great paine did they onely atteine vnto the shadow and coulde not fynde the verye ryghte waye The soueraine goodnesse of men to leade them for they dyd alwaye leaue a maÌ„ vnto hym selfe the whyche can in no wyse fynde that same soueraygne goodnes except he go out of hym selfe Natha where wylte thou then that he shall seke it Phylippe Out of hym selfe and of al creatures Nata Thou wilt theÌ„ that he go seke it in God Phyly In whom shoulde he fynde it but in him in whoÌ„ not only it is but is him selfe that same soueraygne goodnes for thou doest knowe well that man is infasiable and that he can neuer be contente and satisfied excepte he haue all And thoughe he had the heauen and the earth the sea and all that is conteyned in them yet shoulde he not be satisfied and fylled For he should not therby haue al for he can not haue al except he haue God to whoÌ„ al thinges perteyne and be hys owne in the whyche onely he may be satisfied and perfecte accordynge to the testimonie of the prophete saying then Psal xvi shal I be filled wheÌ„ thy glorye appeareth for without hym what maye we fynde but vnhappines synne Death malediction daÌ„nation hell Nata I beleue that nowe thou hast hyt the whyte but the hardeste is yet to do for it doth not suffice to know vnto what plac ende we ought to go nor yet in what hauen or port we desire to arriue excepte we knowe the meane waie to come vnto it wherefore I desire muche that if thou knowe it that thou wilt teache it me Phy. It is necessarie that he knowe it that should teach it vnto other and there is none that can knowe it but he that hath bene there and gone the Iorney Natha There is theÌ„ no liuynge man that can know it Phy. And therfore muste we haue recourse The waye to come to soueraynge goodnes vnto God whyche wyll gyue vs a guide to leade vs and hathe all readye gyuen vs one whyche can neuer go out of the waye that is Iesus Christe hys sunne oure Soueraygne maister whyche is come downe from heauen for to learne vs the waye and brynge vs thither Mat. xxiii xi for as he hym selfe wytnesseth that none can ascend vp into heauen but he that is come Iohn iii. Iohn ix Iohn i. The lader of Iacob Gene. xxviii down from heauen namely the sonne of maÌ„ that is in heauen none can come vnto my father but bâ—me I am the gate the dore the wai the trueth and the lyte he is the true ladder that Iacob sawe standynge vpon the earth reached vp to heauen The angelles of God goinge vp downe vpoÌ„ it and the Lord god leaninge vpon it but for to make vs the waie shorter playner more esie he hath brought Deut. iii. Rom. i. vs the heauens with hym selfe and that same soueraygne goodnes in suche sorte that we nede not to pas the seas nor the mountaines nor to go any longe waye or Iorney to come vnto it neade not to go out of oure selues Ephe. iiii Colo. iii. Math. iii. Luke xvii but of oure olde adam for the kyngdome of heaueÌ„ is at hande and the kingdome of God is within vs we haue the worde neare vs in our mouthes if we can know it Na. How â—heÌ„ Phy. The maister whyche is descended from heauen and that souerayne doctor whych the celestiall father hath sente vnto vs doth teach vs thys scieÌ„ce in two wordes sayinge Thys is the lyfe euerlastynge That they do knowledge the one onely true God and hym whoÌ„e he hath sente Iesus Christe Na. Then wylte â—noledge of God then by that conclud that the souerayne goodnes of manne and his true felicitie and beatitude and the meane to vnite and knyte all meÌ„ in one selfe herte and one verye wyll is to knowe God by Iesus Christe hys sonne Phy. Thou concludest verye well Nata If there neede none other thynge at the leste all the christians should be verye happie for they do all knowe God and Iesus Christe theyr Sauiour but it is neuertheles maruayle that there is so lyttle vnitie amonge them seynge they haue all that knoweledge Phy. If they had that knoweledge wythout doubt thei should be al of one accord should be verye happye and blessed but there be very fewe that hath that knowledge as it shuld be had Nata Is there theÌ„ ii sortes to know God Phy. Euen as there is two sortes to beleue Two sortes to knowe and beleue God For to beleue in God and knowe God cometh all to one Saynte Iames doeth saye that the Deuyles beleue and tremble before the maiestie of God But they beleue not in â—mes ii suche sorte as the faythfull children of God do They beleue there is a God and do feare hym but not as the good chylde feareth hys father but as an euyl doer 〈…〉 Iudge Notwithstandynge also they do beleue ther is one God yet beleue they not God is their God that is to saye that he is theyr Sauioure and father readye benigne fauorable and mercifull and that he wyll shewe vnto them hys grace and mercy thorow his sonne Iesus Christe for so is the nature of God hys propre office And he that knoweth hym not so knoweth hym not to be hys God but doeth hold him as a cruel tyraunte the which he doeth more feare then loue for we can not knowe him to be other without Iesu Christ because that the euil coÌ„scieÌ„ce which doth fele it selfe culpable of hys Iudgmâ—t causeth him so to repute hym wherefore it is impossible that any shoulde haue the true knowledge of God suche as is required to come vnto thys soueraygne goodnes but he that hathe hym in coÌ„templation not in hym selfe nor in him The true knowledg of God to be coÌ„sidered barely in his maiestie nor in anye other habite then in this humaine fleshe whyche he hath put on by hys soone Iesus Christe in the whyche he hathe declared
which was coÌ„ceiued by the holie goste borne of the virgin marie suffred vnder ponce pilate was crucâ—fied dead buried desceÌ„ded into hel the thyrd day he rose againe froÌ„ death he asceÌ„ded into heaueÌ„ sitteth on the right haÌ„d of God the father almighty from thense he shal come to Iudge the quycke and the deade I beleue in the holye Gost the holy Catholike church the communion of sayntes the forgyuenes of synnes The resurrection of the bodye and the lyfe euerlastynge AmeÌ„ Phy. The better to deuide these matters for the healpe of the memory we wil deuide the crede al generally in foure principal partes thei of the .iiii. partes that shal be most tedious loÌ„ge we mai deuide wher it shal seme vnto vs most mete for the playner vnderstandyng and the better to kepe all thynges in memorie And in the first shal be spoken of God in generall of the person of the father of the creation of all thynges In the seconde of Iesus Christ our Lord and of oure redemption In the thyrde of the holye Goste In the fourthe of the churche of the thynges vnto hyr apperteyning Nata Thys ordre shal be very good let vs therfore come vnto the fyrste parte what vnderstandest thou wheÌ„ thou saiest I beleue Phy. That I do put my whole confidence truste hope What it is to bâ—â—â—ue to hym in whom I beleue trustynge in hym wyth all my herte abydynge and lokinge to receyue of hym onely ayde succour saluatioÌ„ lyfe and al good thynges Natha Thou doeste Psal xiiii then confesse that thou trusteste al whollâ— in hym and in none other Phy. It is so for it is tru that who so euer trusteth in him shal not be deceuyed nor confounded and I say I beleue because that none other can beleue for me Natha It semeth bi thy words that thou wylt affyrme that faith doth not serue but to him that hath it that it profiteth not to another but vnto hym whose it is Phy. I denye In what the fayth of other may profitte not but the fayth of other may serue for prayer vnto God for me for my conuercion and my sinnes and for to presente me vnto hym aske of hym my saluation as we haue example in the sicke of the palseye but if I haue not fayth also in my selfe I can not receyue it Natha What sayest thou then of theÌ„ whiche forseth not to vnderstand and knowe the doctrine of fayth but doeth suffice them to saye I beleue in the holye mother church I beleue that whych the holye churche beleueth albeit they knowe not what she beleueth and doth truste more in the fayth of other then in theyr owne Phy. The prophet hath learned me to speake and fele otherwise when he hath sayd the Iuste shall lyue by hys fayeth wherefore I do conclude that euen as I can not lyue by the soule and life an other but of mine owne that also my soule can not lyue by the fayeth of other but by hys own faith whych giueth hym lyfe as the soule to the bodye Natha Seynge then that the faith doth vinifie man it muste then be lyuelye and that the fayeth whyche is deade is no fayeth Phy. Yes it is fayth as a deade man is a man wythout hauynge lyfe mouynge nor felynge wythout whych thynges man can not be man but a deade carion or els it is fayeth as a paynted fyre is a fyre wythout heate clearnes or light whyche be thynges impossible and contrary to theyr nature Natha They their whyche doeth saye they beleue wythout knoweynge what they do beleue and seâ—tel them selues at all aueÌ„ture vpon the fayth of other haue not the ryght fayeth Phy. What fayth may that be whyche hath no fundation nor ground vpon The fundation of fayeth the promises of God beynge ignoraunt of theÌ„ for the tru faieth hath for his ground fundation the promise of God and his word wythout the whiche it can not be fayth Natha What is it then Phy. If thou wylte call it fayth and abuse the worde we may cal it fayned paynted historicall or deade faieth For faith can we not rightlye call it in suche sorte as the holye scripture doeth take and vnderstand the worde fayeth wherefore if thou wilt cal it by more propre names thou maiste call it fantasie or foleish opinion or els temerite and presumption Natha I am inoughe satisfied in thys poynte tell me then nowe what is that God in whoÌ„e thou beleuest for I haue determined thus to examine the point by poynte not as an inquirar of thy fayeth to examine thy fayth and thy conscience but for to learne and to be taught of the. Phy. Thou demaundeste of me a thynge the whyche no vnderstanding can comprehend nor any tong open accordynge to hys dignitie Nathanaell Wherefore theÌ„ callest thou hym God if ther be no tongue that can setforth his name Phy The name of God It is very certaine that mani names be attributed vnto him of al people tonges natioÌ„s but there is none that maye perfectlye diffine and declare hys hature hys essence hys dignitie vertue and maiestie Natha To what purpose serueth then those names Phy. For to healpe and succoure the humayne infirmitie vnto the whyche muste be set forth and described suche thynges as it may comprehend and knowe for hys saluation Natha Seyng ther is no name in heaueÌ„ nor in the earth worthy nor sufficient vnto hys maiestie at the lest declare vnto me what thou vnderstandest by the name whyche thou gyuest vnto hym and other lyke Phylype I vnderstande not a creature mortall visible and corruptible but a spirite whyche is not created but eternall wythout What god is Iohn iiii Esaie â—l xx Psal xv ende or beginnynge a maiestie essence diuinite power wisdoÌ„ goodnes mirable infinit a soueraine goodnes hauing all in him selfe hauynge no neade of anye maner of thynge beynge sufficiente vnto hym selfe and to all creatures of the whyche he is onelye the author creatour gouernour coÌ„seruator Natha Wherefore doest that call hym likewyse father almyghtye Phy The better to declare and open that whyche I haue sayed Nata The name of father howe is it semiâ—g or appropried vnto God Phy. It is semynge vnto hym for dyuers causes and reasons the firste for asmuche as Wherfore god is called father Ephe. i. he is father of oure Lorde Iesus Christe And after bycause that he is author of all thynges and of the whyche deffendeth all fatherheade as well in heauen as in earth and singularlye bycause that he is of a moste fatherly affectioÌ„ toward hys elected vnto whoÌ„ he doeth shewe hym selfe as a moste louynge father toward hys chyldren and doeth holde and take them for hys for the loue he beareth vnto Iesus Christe hys natural sonne Natha Expounde me al these poyntes by perticulers and tell me fyrste howe he is father of oure Lorde Iesus Christe and howe Iesus Christe is the
sone of God Phy. This place shoulde be better intreated in his place in the seconde parte of the crede in the whych Iesus Christe is clearlye called the sonne of God but in as muche as thou requirest now the exposition of it I am content to satisfye thy desyre for the matters be after suche sorte conioyned togyther that it is verye harde to seperate them and it is almoste all one to declare it here in the fyrste parte and in the seconde so that whyche shall be here towchede hath no neade to be here resited but shal serue for the one the other if there be any more in this matter to be opened for to obteine the more vnderstandinge we may passe the more lyghtlie ouer and neede not to tarye so longe vpon it for there shal be mough of other matters to be treated of And for to answer vnto thy question Iesus Christe is the sonne of The eternall generation of Iesus Christe Iohn i. God accordynge to hys diuinitie bycause that he is begotten of the father eternallye is one selfe essence and substaunce wyth hym and accordynge to hys humanitie forasmuch as wythout seede of corruptible man synne he was conceiued in the wombe of the virgin by the operation of the holye Goste Natha Thou openest vnto me secreted very darke and harde to be vnderstande for if Iesus Christe be God howe can he be begotteÌ„ Deu. vi Psal xvi Rom. i. of the father howe is it possible that God shoulde beget God seynge he is not but one immutable and incorruptible Phylipe I do well confesse that these misteries surmounteth oure vnderstandynge and be incomprehensible vnto the humayne fragilitie therefore be they called misteries that is to say secretes hidden and darke but we may not conceiue here a carnall opinion vnworthy of the maiestie of God by these wordes as thoughe we spake of mortall men Natha Wherfore spake we so then Phy. Because that for lache of words more proper and meete vocables The manour of speakynge of the scripture we becoÌ„strained to borowe these of the common language of men to th ende that by humayne and easy similitudes we may declare the thynges celestiall and deuine whyche do excede the capacitie of oure rude vnderstandynge whiche can not coÌ„prehende any higher laÌ„guage Natha What similitude and comparison hath the begettynge or generation of the sonne of God wyth that of the carual father and of his sonne Phy. We must fyrst in thys consideration and application cast away and reiecte all absurde straunge and carnall cogitations thoughtes And we muste not here dreame of suche begettynge or generation as the poetes attribute vnto their Gods Na. OpeÌ„ vnto me that similitude as thou vnderstandest it Phy. Euen as the chylde is begotten of the father of his proper substance vnto his Image and lykenes of suche substance Ieremi xxxii Collos i. Hebre. i Ihon. xiiii and nature as he is and doth take his name of him being called man as he is eueÌ„ so Iesus Christe is trulie called God beinge the Image of the father of his substance and nature representynge the father as the true and naturall chylde after suche sorte that he that seeth the sonne seeth the father Natha There is then generation corruption in the diuine nature Phy. In this there is a great difference betwene the generation of God of meÌ„ And we must not stretehe the similitude comparison to make it answer to al pointes to applie it in all thinges wyth the humayne generation Na. Howe muste we then vnderstande this Phy. MaÌ„engeÌ„dreth his childe of corruptible seed because he is corruptible And of necessitie the father must be before the child But in God it is al otherwise Na. Shew me the difference Phy. It is not possible for me to coÌ„prehende this nor vnto any creature liuing nor to caÌ„ open that whiche I do vnderstande feele beleue herein But I shal assay to make the thing sumthing more open by humaine similitudes albeit there is no coÌ„parison of the creature vnto the creatour Na. I desire much to haue a more cleare vnderstandinge of this place of the which many do speake wythout vnderstanding it Phy. There is no creature whiche doeth not represent his creatoure and Creatures Images of the creator the worde vertue of the same by the which all thynges be made Wherfore we wyll take the sunne whiche is a cleare Image and manifest vnto all men for to make vs thys the more easie folowing the example of the auncient wryters whyche haue wyllyngly vsed thys comparison Nathana The thynge A similitude of the sunne pleaseth me veri well Folowe thy purpose Philippe As the sunne casteth hys beames whych be engendre◠〈…〉 forthe of him by the which he syghteth is 〈…〉 â—â—nifest vnto men he gyueth clearnes and syght vpon the earth he doeth norishe and vinifie all thynges yet neuer was nor neuer shall be without the same his beames albeit they be engeÌ„dered Hebr. ii Colo. i. Ephe. i. of hym nor they wythout hym lykewyse Euen so Iesus Christe is the beames splendor glorye and Image of the father after suche sorte begotten of him that neuer the father hath bene wythout hym nor he wythout the father and by hym wâ—se and knowe the father as we know the sonne by hys beames by him the father doeth illuminate saue norishe and vinifie vs and by the holye gost proceadynge of hym and of the sonne as the heate and vertue of the sunne Natha Notwythstandynge that no similitude nor comparison can be hygh inough propre nor worthye to discriue suche a maiestie neuertheles thys same doeth not seeme verye vnpropre Phy. But we must alwaies vnderstaÌ„d that in god ther is neither accideÌ„t norqualitie but al that is in him is god thing most substaÌ„cial conuement vnto hys nature and diuine essence in the whyche we haue to considre the father whyche is as the roote originall the fountayne beginnynge and the fyrste cause of all and after hys sonne whych is his worde and hys eternal wisdome not that we shoulde vnderstaÌ„de tha◠〈…〉 Christ should be only 〈…〉 â—orde spoken in the aâ—re whyche Iohn i. Prouer. viii vanisheth and sodaynly is gone or wryten in any corruptible boke or storye But bycause that man doth gyue knowlege of that which is in hys herte and opeÌ„ hys thoughtes by his worde whyche is the Image of hys vnderstaÌ„dynge and mynde for to represente and open the same vnto other the scripture also doeth call Iesus Christe the eternall worde of God bycause that by hym God doeth open hym selfe vnto men as we do open and make manifeste oure hertes by oure wordes But thys worde is not a voice or sounde or a corporall or corruptible thynge whyche may perishe in God as it is in vs but doeth abyde alwayes in God and is substancial and of suche a nature as he whyche hathe begotten hym is
churche did and to remembre and haue in cōtēplation the death and passiō of Iesus christ in oure hertes and to reste oure selues in the fruite consolation that it bryngeth vnto vs then to playe suche castes and to disguyse thē selues in suche sorte before the simple people and to seeke to draw them onely into the admiration and extollynge of outwarde ceremonies and so to drawe them altogyther frō the true and healthfull contemplation of the death and passion of Iesus Christe and to depryue theym of the fruite the whyche they oughte to receyue by the same For when I do remembre Iesus Christ vpon the crosse I doo see hym wyth the eyes of my fayeth gyue vp the spirite I do see hym putte into the Sepulchre rysen and ascended into heauen What neede haue I then of suche illusions and paynted conueyaunce for to drawe me from thys holy and profounde consideration for my fayeth doeth make Iesus Christe present vnto me euē as though he were payned and crucified euē before my owne eyes I doeth sette hym forthe before me as a stronge Samson whyche breaketh the gattes of hys enemyes and beareth them vpon hys shoulders and doeth kyll and distroye more in diyng thē in lyuyng I do see howe Iesu Christ beyng crucified doeth crucifie the Deuyl beynge nayled doeth nayle sheading hys bloud i. Cor. xv Math. xxvii Iohn xiiii Roma v taketh awaye the bonde of death whyche he had agaynst vs in dying kylleth death sinne and brouseth and treadeth down the head of the olde serpente he openeth the Sepulchres and gyueth lyfe vnto the dead when he entereth into the Sepulchre and descendeth into helles as we haue sayed he entereth into the house of death into the strengthe of the armed man and of the prynce of thys worlde doeth dispoyle breake downe all theyr force strēgth and power Nathanael If hys death be so stroung what oughte then to be hys resurrection and lyfe Phylype I leaue that to thy selfe to considre and therefore when I do see hym rysen I do Colo. ii The fruit of the resurrection ascentiō se my fleshe rysen wyth hys I do see hym as victoriouse leadynge synne the worlde death hell and Sathan in shewe and triumphe all ouercome and caste downe in suche sorte that they haue no more powre vpon all the elected whyche beleue in hym then they haue hadde vpon Iesus Christ Whē I see hym ascended into heauen and am certayne that he is sette vpon the ryghte hande of God and that he doth raygne wyth the father eternally This fayeth also doeth brynge assuraunce and certifieth me that when he is goone vp he hathe borne and lyfte vp my fleshe and my bodye hath opened me the waye vnto the celestial glorye and that he beynge oure heade hath taken possession for vs. Natha Then hys resurrection and hys assention be vnto vs certaine testimonies seales confirmation of ours Phy. There is nothynge more certayne and we oughte no lesse to be assured that we shall aryse and raygne wyth hym then that we be of hym for in asmuche as he hathe taken oure fleshe euen as it in hym hathe suffered hath borne the Iudgmente and maledicion of god and is deade euen so it is rysen in hym and exalted into the glory of God aboue al the heauenes therfore he is called the fyrst fruit of thē that slepe fyrst borne of the dead not bicause he is fyrst risē amōg mē for other were risen before hym that is to saye they whych were raysed as well by hym as by the prophetes but bycause that thys is the fyrst and he onelye whyche is rysen by hys owne deuine vertue and power and is the beginning originall and fountayne of the resurrection lyfe of all the other whyche dye and ryse in hym and by hym and the better to confyrme and seale thys hope in oure hertes he hath giuen vs a gage and hathe takē of vs to the end he woulde not leaue vs in doubte he hathe taken Iesus hath taken pledge of vs hath left vs of hys Ephe. i. Roma viii Iohn i. i. Petre. i oure fleshe the whyche he hath borne into heauen by the whyche we be alreadye put into possession and be sette in the celestial places wyth hym and of the other parte he hath gyuen vs hys holye spirite to confyrme and seale the promises in oure hertes which doeth testifie vnto oure spirite that wee be the chyldrē of God Seinge thē that we be the childrē of God and haue hys diuine seede in vs wee oughte not to doubte but that Iesus Christe hathe made vs partakers of his diuine nature euen as he woulde communicate vnto ours and woulde be made manne for to make vs Goddes that is to say Godly holy spirituall Then euen as the wheate whych is sowen in the earth dieth in the same doth sprout Iohn xii Cor. xv sprynge and take roote and after cometh out groweth and bringeth forth good fruite euen so lykewyse shall we be assured that when we dye be putte into the earth we be sowen shal take agayne aryse immortall incorruptible in as much as we beare wyth vs the sproute or springe of the spirite of God which can not dye though the flesh be corrupte but shall deliuer thys bodye frō corruptiō whych shal be raised vp by the vertue of him whych hathe raysed vp Iesus Christe from the dead and shall vinifie and rayse vp oure mortall membres Nathan Here is a goodlye exercise of fayeth and a goodlye practise of christian doctrine of the whyche we oughte not onelye to be learners and doctours in contemplation but also good practicians for to bryng it in dayly vre Phy. There is yet an other poynte whych is no lesse worthye to be noted that is when we beleue that Iesus rayneth in heauen sette vpon the ryght hand of God that doeth assure Consolation agaynst al tētations gyue vs a merueylouse consolation against all tentations and daungers for it is no smal thynge to haue in the celestiall courte and before the face of that greate eternall God such a frende as Iesus Christe whyche is verye God verye man whyche also hathe power in heauen and is inheritour of the kyngdome of God for we can not doubte in asmuche as he alwayes appeareth before the face of God but he is intercessoure for vs and is oure mediatoure and aduocate leader conductoure and gubernatoure wherefore wee haue none occasion to be aferde of anye thynge in heauē or in earth if we firmely and assuredlye trust in hym For in asmuche as he is verye God we can in no wyse doubte but that he hathe al power asmuche as he is one substāce power with the father we ought not to doubt but that al that the father hath is hys and for as muche as he hath bene obedient euen vnto the death of the crosse and that he is hys welbeloued
should be a newe God whiche had some beginnynge the whyche is a thinge repugnaunt vnto the nature of God Natha But mai not God do what so euer he wyll in asmuche as the diuinitie of Iesus Christe can not be seperated from hys humanitie is not hys bodye in all places wher his diuinitie is Phy. Nothinge is impossible vnto God and albeit he may do al yet neuertheles his power is aswayes conioyned wyth hys wisdome and vseth it not disordinatly but alwayes in suche sorte that hys worckes be not confused but that hys creature abideth alwayes a creature gyuing him suche propreties as he will and yet foloweth it not that the diuinitie and humanitie of oure Lorde Iesus Christe be so inseperable that hys humanitie fulfilleth the heauen and the earth as hys diuinitie doeth for my body and my spirite be conioyned togyther and yet it foloweth not therefore that my bodye shoulde be in all places where my spirite maye be for my spirite maye be rauished euen vp into heauen and yet my bodye neuertheles shal be in the earth or and if thou loueste better the cōparison of Saynt Austen God dwelleth in vs by hys holy spirite and yet neuertheles we be not in all places and enerye where where God is albeit he dwelleth in Iesus Christe otherwyse then in vs but thys ioyninge togither or comunction of two natures doeth not take from the natures theyr propreties Natha But is there no difference betwen the bodies glorified and the mortall and corruptible bodies Phy. Yes verye greate and I denye not but The glorious body of chirst that the gloriousse bodie of Iesus Christe is now farre other then it was before his death and resurrectiō yet hathe he not for all that chaūged his body but hath alwaies kept the same he had before hathe not chaunged his substaūce except that he hath put of the qualities of imperfectiōs miseres which he toke for vs is immortal glorious or otherwise he shoulde not be trulie rysen nor we shoulde not call the resurrection resurrection excepte that same propre bodie and that same propre flesh whych is fallen by death were rysen vp agayne nor shoulde not receyue lyfe by the same so myght it be rather called mutation or chaunging thē resurrectiō thē to dispute subtellye curiouslye of the properties of the bodye glorified of the place where the bodye of Iesus Christe is shoulde be a thynge not onelye vnseamynge but also vnworthye of the simplicitie and of the euangelicall doctriue we ought to contēt our selues to knowe Luke xxiiii Iohn xxi that Iesus Christe is in the celestiall glorye and that he hath a verie true body such as he shewed it vnto hys disciples hauyng fleshe bones and that it is not chaunged into spirite but doeth holde alwayes the properties of a verye true bodye suche as appertayneth vnto a verye and true glorified bodye whyche not wythstādynge it hath put of al humaine infirmities yet followeth it not for all that that it is in al places nor in diuers or manye places al at one tyme instante We oughte to beleue that he is in heauen sette vpon the ryghte hande of God hys father where as Act. vii saynte Stephan dyd see hym For to dispute and diffine what is thys heauen that ryght hande of God is here no neade but is more sure to putte it of and leaue oure disputation vnto the tyme we came there and maye se it by experience and that we maye vse suche diligence to folowe Iesus Christe in the tyme we be in thys lyfe that we may come thether and beholde hym Natha And if it be thus as thou sayest howe can we make it agree wyth that whyche the priestes make vs beleue that the body of Iesu Christ is in the hoste betwene theyr handes The corporal presence or in the pixkes euen as greate and large as he was vpō the crosse Phy. They whyche beleue that beleue not that he is sette vpon the ryghte hand of God And shall come frō thense to iudge the quicke and the dead Natha Wherefore not Maye he not as well come downe and goe vp by the vertue of the sacramentall wordes as he is goue vp Phy. To what purpose or what neade is it that he should come downe descend or ascende seing he fulfilled all by hys vertue and power If it were neadful that hys bodie should be presented vnto vs carnallye wherefore is not he taried wyth vs or wherefore is he not returned to be cōuersaunte as he was before with hys disciples wherefore did he saye vnto his disciples It is expediente for yo◠that I depart for excepte I depart that conforter shall not come If the corporal presēce he Iesu christ dyd wyth holde the hertes of the Apostles here in this lowe earth and dyd hyndre them to knowe hym spirituallye howe shoulde he haue wylled vs to sette oure spirites to seeke hym in almorsell of breade in the handes of a synner or in a pixce or boxe hathe he not sayed he woulde be prayed vnto of them whiche shoulde honoure and seeke hym in spirite and in trueth and that suche be the true honorers and howe shall wee honoure hym in spirite trueth if we goe aboute to seeke and honoure hym in visible and corruptible thynges and Ihon. iiii in houses made wyth the handes of menne and to muse vpon a morsell of breade or vpō a pyxe or boxe howe maye thys agree wyth that whyche Saynte Paule commaundeth vs sayinge If ye be rysen agayne wyth Iesus Christe seeke not the thynges whyche be Colo. iii. on the earth but those that be aboue wher Iesus Christe is vpon the ryght hande of God the father or wherefore do the priestes synge in theyr masses Sursum corda haue your hertes on hye and wherfore do the other answer We haue thē to God Why wyll they rote them here in thys lowe earth and holde them in the Imagination of corporall and carnall presence rather then to learne them to know Iesus Christe spirituallye makynge theim to fele the fruite of hys bitter death passiō For thys cause hath he instituted hys holye Institucion of the supper supper not for to make vs seke a corporal presence but for to represent hym self vnto vs by these visible sygnes for to learne vs by the same to go vp into heauen to hym for he wyl not that we drawe hym from heauen by wordes as coniurars and enchaunters but will drawe vs vnto hym self by hys holy spiritte and wylleth that oure hertes be lyfted by vnto hym and that we there be traunslated and traunsported by hys vertue to receiue repast nouryshmente of hys fleshe of hys bloud wherefore it is no neade that he shoulde descend or go vp for if he myght not communicate hys fleshe and hys bloude vnto vs other wyse then by hys corporall and carnall presence and wythout descendynge
be spiritual be commune vntâ—â—â—l but there is an othere coÌ„munion betwen◠〈◊〉 Sayntes that yet be lyuynge them whiche be departed for eyther of theim haue theyr estates aparte And therefore is there no suche CoÌ„munioÌ„ betwene saintes lyueinge and them that bee dead communion betwen the Sayntes that be departed and vs as there hathe bene betwene them in the time that they lyued and theÌ„ that lyued wyth them at the leaste we haue no testimonye of the holye scriptures for they serue not nowe vnto the church wyth the giftes and graces whyche they in theyr tyme receyued of God for the edification of the same for they haue fulfilled and ended theyr course and theyr ministration whyche nowe is committed vnto others and of the other part thei haue no more nead of vs nor of oure goodes for they be out of al necessitie Nath. Oughte we not then to honour them Phy. We may not honoure them as though they were present wyth vs nor do vnto them reuerence nor salute them nor speake to them nor presente vnto them of oure goodes nor anye maner of seruice for othere honourâ— nor seruice can we not do vnto them but in folowynge theyr holye doctrine and holye lyfe and conuersation as they haue folowed Iesus Christe for those be the reliquies that they haue lefte vs in the whych they would be honored by vs and so then when wee haue the â—â—lye scriptures in reuerence the whych god hathe geuen vnto vs by them then do we honoure theyr reliquies Nathana It is then greate folye to offre vnto Offerynge to sayntes them breade wyne candels golde and siluer and other thynges lyke seynge they haue no maner of nede Phylyp That is a furye or follye more then paâ—â—imrie it weare muche better for to offre vnto the lyuynge Images and Sayntes for to accomplishe that whyche the Apostle exhorteth vs to admonishynge vs to communicate vnto the necessitie of the sayntes it is verye cleare that he speaketh not there of the Sayntes departed but of the lyuynge and of the pore membres of Iesus Christe beinge among vs languisshyng and ouer preste with pouertie and necessitie Nathana I doubte not but those offerynges were more pleasynge vnto God Phi. Such were they of the primatiue church for the gatherynge spendynge and distributynge of the whiche the churche at that tyme haddâ— hyr deacons to serue at the tables and At. vi Rom. xvi vnto the necessitie of the pore we can no here fynde chapell churche or Image more meete for the practisynge of thys excommunicatioÌ„ and to offre vnto the Sayntes then in visitynge the hospitales pore wydowes orphaÌ„s fatherles sycke lame neadie and indigeÌ„t Vpon suche Sayntes ought the goodes of the churche to be employed and spente and vpon them that serueth hyr and haue nede Nathan That same were a goodlye thynge but tel me yet what seameth it the of brotherheades and monkerye for seynge there is but Deut. vi i Timo. ii Ephe. iiii one christian church one communion of laintes one God one mediatour of God man one spirite as we haue coÌ„fessed hytherto and that all is but one gospell one Baptisme one Ceane one fayeth and that all the christians ought to be in one selfe bodye one selfe herte and one selfe soule it seameth to me that ther oughte to be but one religioÌ„ and one brotherheade seyng that al the christians be brothers haue all receyued one selfe spirite of fayeth and christiaÌ„ religion Phy. There is no doubt but they which haue bene the authours of the monasticall lectes and that foloweth theim suche as they be at thys presente tyme and those brotherheades lykewyse taken of the folowynge of the panyms be Apostatase from the true church of Iesus Christe for as Sismatykes they do deuide breake and teare the communion of saintes for as there is but one God so can there be but one religion The whyche S. Iames doeth diffine in thys maner the religion that is pure and without spot towardes God the father is thys Viset the fatherles widowes in theyr neades and tribulations and be not spotted defiled wyth thys worlde he doeth not saye that the true religion is to shute thy selfe in a cloister or to dwell in the deserte to be disguised in diuers habites to eate and deuour the pore widowes fatherles vndre the colour of long praiynge for suche religion is to much pharisaicall but the christian religioÌ„ doth lye in fayeth whyche maketh vs studye vnto all puritie and innocentie to exercise our charitie towarde our neyghboure whych is the true marke of the true christians disciples of Iesus Christe the Abbot of that religion is God the father and the gardian is Iesus Christe and the religious brethrene be al true christians and faythfull for as the Apostle testifieth the spirite of God witnesseth vnto oure spirite that we be the chyldrene of God by the whyche we crie Abba that is to saye father then in as muche as Abba doeth signifie father and that wee take God so to be and call hym father there is theÌ„ no doubt but he is the Abbot and founder of oure religion Act. ii Ephe. ii the whyche he doeth conserue maynteyne and gouerne by Iesu Christ hys sonne whom he hath giuen to be head of the church Ihon. vi x. and into whose handes he hathe putte vs all to be vinified sanctified vnite and conioyned wyth hym by hys holy spirite and the habite that we muste put on in thys religion is oure Lorde Iesus Christ the newe manne whiche we muste put on and of the olde Adam for Ephe. iiii we muste chaunge the skynne and the herte and not the ayer and the coote or clothes Nathana In asmuche then as God is the father of vs all and that wee make inuocation vnto hym by that name it doeth folowe also that we be all bretherne and so wyll Iesus Christe that we call oure selues and then if we be all brethrene wee be then one brotherhead I can not then vnderstande that here is anye other brotherhead but that of the holye Gooste by the whyche the churche is assembled and all the sayntes vnite and conioyned in one communion Phy. Thou concludeste verye well therefore Brotherhed Math. xiii confesse we fyrst in this crede the faith which we haue in the father whyche saueth vs by Iesus Christe hys sonne and doeth sanctifie vs by hys holye spirite whych be of one selfe essence and diuinitie wyth the father in the whyche we beleue and put al oure truste we laye fyrst the fundation and the cause and after we come vnto the churche whiche vpoÌ„ the lâ—me is founded builded Howe can we theÌ„ saye that we be of the brotherhead of Saynt Bernarde and of Saynte Sebastian and of The brotherhed of saynts suche othere lyke or of Saynte Barbara or saynt Katheryn or of oure Ladye or of anye other of the holye Sayntes what soeuer they be
for we can nother call theÌ„ fathers nor monor we be not bâ—etherne by the reason of theÌ„ nor vnite and conioyned by theyr spirites but if they haue bene true and fayethfull they be oure bretherne and haue beene lede wyth oneselfe spirite And lykewyse maye we also saye of all the monasticall sectes and diuersitie of religions For if Saynt Paule haue called the Corinthyans Sâ—smatikes whyche sayed I am of Paule and I of Cephas and I of Appollo what title or name shall I gyue them whyche saye I am of the religion of Saynte Fraunces and I of Saynte Dominike and I of S Benet other suche like which be in greater numbre amonge the christians then euer they were amonge the panims maye we not well saye vnto them wyth the Apostle is Christe deuided hathe Frauncys or Dominike dyed for you or are ye baptised in theyr names In as muche then as wee are baptised in the name of the father of the sonne and of the holye Goste what haue we neede of anye other religion but of that in the whyche thys holye spirite doth raygne which doeth learne vs to make innocatioÌ„ vnto the fathers in the name of Iesus Christ hys sonne whych hath taken vs all into theyr sauegarde and protection what haue we nede of anye othere rule but of that the whyche Iesus Christe hathe The Rule of the Religion of Châ—ist Gal. vi broughte vs from heauen Of the whych the Apostle doeth speake in thys maner all they whyche walke after thys rule peace and mercye be vpon them and vpon Israel of God Natha I haue learned manye goodlye poyntes by the occasion of thys coÌ„munion of saintes for thou haste not onelye taught me what it is but also what is the true excommunication religion and christian brotherheade and what is the honour dene vnto Sayntes therfore nowe expounde vnto me the reste Phy. Because we haue abyden solonge vpon these two articles of the church the communion of Sayntes wee maye here deuide oure matter and kepe the reste tyll an other tyme the which shal be shortly done Natha At thyne own pleasure be it ⧠In this laste dialogue shall be spokeÌ„ of the remissioÌ„ of synnes of the keyes of the kyngedome of heauen of the resurrection and immortall lyfe Nathanaell VVe haue done so muche by our Iorneis that we be al moste come to the ende of the crede seyng therfore we be arriued thus farre fourth our hertes must not faile vs for the litle waye we haue to go Phy. I haue better courage then euer I had tell me therefore what foloweth Natha The remission of synnes what is the vnderstandynge of thys article Phy. I coÌ„fesse by these wordes that I beleue that as there is one churche assemble and vnite by the holye spirite in the same oâ—e coÌ„munion of all goodes that the synnes lykewyse and the faultes be pardoned vnto the fayethfull by the grace goodnes and mercye of God whyche doeth quitte theim all theyr dettes to the ende they should not be rekened vnto theim at hys Iudgemente nor that they should not beare the payne whych they haue merited and deserued Humayn Satisfacion merets Nathan Seynge there is remission and forgiuenes it doth appeare folowe that ther is nothynge of our satisfaction for wher ther is pardone there can be nothyng of our merites Phylype There is nothynge more certayne for the dete is not forgiuen to hym that satisfieth and payeth wherfore it doeth folowe in as muche as there is remission and forgyuenes for vs that the satisfactioÌ„ is of sum other then of oure selues and that we can presâ—t no other recoÌ„pence vnto god but the satisfaction of his sonne Iesus Christe for whose loue we obteine of the father pardon of al our sinnes Natha And this pardon and remission caÌ„ we not obteygne but in the churche Phy. No for as at the time of the floude none coulde be saued whyche were wythout the shipe or arke of Noe so none can auoyde the Gen. viii Pâ—â—â—r iii. No sâ—luacion ouâ— of the church iudgement of God and obteygne grace and pardon of hys misdedes excepte he be a true membre of the church incorporated in the bodye of Iesus Christe persenerynge wyth the people of God in the vnitie of the fayeth Natha It foloweth then that all cismatykes heritikes infidels excommunicate and al authors of sectes whych be deuided and seperated frome the churche can haue no pardon of theyr synnes but abyde in death and damnation vnto suche tyme they be recouciled wyth hyr Phy. It is euen so Nathana Tell me then by what meanes we obteyne pardon in the churche Is it necessarie to confesse oure synnes vnto the priestes and to haue theyr absolution for to obteyne this remission Phy. It is verye requisite that if we will that God pardon vs that we reknoweledge oure faultes but not to the priestes for it is not agaynste theÌ„ that we haue synned but againste God whyche onelye as mooste soueraygne kynge maye gyue vs grâ—ce and pardon and thâ—refore as we haue synned agaynste hym euen so muste we conteste vnto hym our synnes and aske of him pardon accordyng to the example of Dauid of Daniell and of othere holye prophetes seruauntes of God For as Saynce Iohn sayeth if we confesse oure sinnes he is faithfull and wyll heare vs. Natha I vnderstande well we must confesse oure selues vnto God fyrste but is it not re-requisite that we confesse our selues vnto meÌ„ Phy. We maie confesse vs vnto menne in diuers sortes as fyrst If we haue offeÌ„ded anye we oughte to reknoweledge oure faultes towardes hym and aske hym pardon and enforce oure selues to returne into fauour wyth hym for we can not obteygne pardon of god so long as the iniury we haue done vnto one neyghboure doeth accuse vs before hym askynge vengeaunce agaynste vs excepte wee studie to reconcile our selues vnâ—o him whoÌ„ we haue offended and thys confession maye be called brotherlye recoÌ„siliation the whyche Iesus Christe doth greatlie recommend vnto vs. Ther is yet another maner of recoÌ„siliatioÌ„ towardes men the whych may be boeth publyke and particuler for when we haue beene Open coÌ„fesâ—â—on in errour and abused in Idolatrie and superstition and haue offeÌ„ded God we ought not to be ashamed to reknoweledge our faultes opeÌ„lie and to gyue thankes vnto God as did i timo i. Math. i. Act. ii iii. saint Paul writinge vnto Timothe and they whyche dyd come vnto the baptisme of Iohn Baptiste and they whych were conuerted by the pâ—eachynge of Saynte Petre and also of the Ephesians whyche dyd burne the bokes of sorcerie euen so theÌ„ as I may reknowledg and confesse my faultes openlye in thys maner â—efore the church of God euen so may I do in perticuler or secret vnto my neyghbour for to haue councell and consolation of him or for to reconcile my selfe vnto him if I haue Perticuler coÌ„fession offended hym or to the ende he praye
to God for me vnto suche confession doeth Saynte Iames exhorte vs sayinge Confesse your selues one to an other and praye eche one for other he doth not say confesse the vnto the priestes for as we oughte to praye the one for the other not the priestes onelye euen so ought we to reknowledge oure faultes one to an other coÌ„fesse our infirmities for to giue praises vnto God for the entertayning of amitie amoÌ„ge vs euerie one to seke the quietnes of other but I haue not founde in all the holye scripture that God hath coÌ„mâ—unded vs to go to tell all our synnes in the eate of a priest for that is impossible God doeth not so muche desire the reliting of our sinnes by perticuler Math. xvi as the coÌ„trition sighes sorowes of the herte the teares as we haue exemple in S. Petre which did much better coÌ„fesse his sinnes with his hert his eyes theÌ„ with mouth Natha I find that that thou saiest is very good but I woulde yet fayne knowe howe thys remissioÌ„ is practised in the church and howe we be partakers of it is it not by the bulles indulgence and pardons gyuen by the Pope Phy. It is by pardon and indulgence but not of paper and perchemente sealed wyth waxe or lead as those whych the Pope gyueth but by the indulgence and bulles that the celestiall father hath sente vs frome heauen by hys sonne Iesus Christe wryten in oure hertes wyth hys owne propre finger and by hys holy spirite sealed with his precious bloud ratified and confirmed by his death passion Natha The bulles and pardons of the pope be then nothynge worth Phy. Yes they profit them that gyueth them as towchyng theyr bodies bycause they take money for them but they brynge greate domage and hurte vnto theyr soules also vnto the bodyes and soules and goodes of theim that receyue them for in as much as they seke remission of synnes by anie other meane then by the bloude of our Lorde Iesus Christ they do not beleue the remissioÌ„ of sinnes the which they confesse the whych is in the church of Iesu christ wherfore they abide alwaies in their sinne daÌ„natioÌ„ subiectes to the cuâ—sse maledictioÌ„ that S. Petre dyd gyue vnto Simon Magus his monei Nata Thou wilte then saye ther â—â— no other true pope that maie giue vs indulgence and pardon for to deface and take awaye ours sinnes but Iesu Christ but by what meanes doth he make vs partakers of hys pardons and indulgences Phylype By the ministeri of the keyes of the kingdome of heauen that is to say by the predication preaching oâ— hys worde whiche is the true keye of knowledge Nathanaell And who then hath these keyes â—uc xi Math. xxiii Math. xvi Phy. The church to whom Christe hathe gyuen them and be put in vre and practise by al true euangelicall Apostles pastours ministers priestes Nata Haue they theÌ„ authoritie and power to pardon synnes to absolue men Phy. Not of them selues but by the ministration of the keyes and preachynge of the gospell Natha Speake thys more clearlye Phy. There is but the onelye God that may pardon and forgyue synnes and that maye gyue grace but wheÌ„ by his ministers he doth offre vnto vs Iesu Christe hys sonne by his worde and in hym remission of oure sinnes he that beleueth is saued vnbounde and deliuered frome his synnes and he that beleueth not abydeth bound and damned as the minister openeth vnto hym by the worde Natha Then the ministers be but seruauntes ambassadours haue no authoritie nor power â–ª but so much as theâ— take of the word in that they do faithfullie set forth theyr message and ambassade Phy. No for none can pardon the synnes but God when man doth open the word of god it is not maÌ„ that speaketh but it is the spirite of God that speaketh in hym by the whyche the bearer is bounde or losed accordyng to hys fayeth or vnbeleue Therfore dyd Iesus Christ blow toward his disciples gaue them the holie gost before he sayed vnto them whose synnes soeuer ye forgiue shal be forgiueÌ„ whose synnes soeuer ye retayne shal be retayned he woulde by that shewe that it was the holye Goste that dyd pardon them and not they whyche he dyd vse as hys instrumentes and messengers Natha I vnderstaÌ„d wel it is as an ambassadoure whyche if he fayethfullye execute hys Math. x. Ihon. x. chaâ—ge the prince confirmeth it that he doeth if he do otheâ—wyse he wyll not coÌ„firme it but punish hym greuouslye Phylype It is as a man that will open a gate it he haue no keye or if the keye that he hath be not mete for the locke he caÌ„ not opeÌ„ it and therfore in asmuche as Iesus Christâ— is the dore and the waye by the whyche onelye wee maye go vnto the father Rom. x. Luc. xi and wee can not goe vnto Iesus Christe but by fayeth whyche openeth vnto vs the dore and all the treasures that be in him and fayeth cometh by hearynge of the worde of God whych is the key of knowledge it doth wel folowe that al the power of the Apostles of theyr successours is there limited that he that hath not this key is no minister of christ Natha I may theÌ„ well vnderstande by thys that the power of the pope of byshopes and priestes doeth extende so farre as they folowe the worde of God and God doeth approue and confirme that whych they do by it that whyche they do wythout it or agaynste it he doeth condemne all Phy. If thou wylt se the practise of thys considre howe S. Peter dyd vse at Hierusalem he dyd open Iesus Christ penaunce and remission of sinnes in his name Practies of the keys Act. ii iii. vnto the Iewes they whyche the worde dyd touche at the herte and beleued in it were losed by hys ministerie accordynge to the promise of Iesu christ saing that he that beleueth Mark xvi is baptised shall be saued coÌ„trarye wise he that beleueth not shal be coÌ„demned it foloweth theÌ„ that al the infidels abide bound as by the open preachyng all the hearers be bound or vnbounde accordynge to theyr fayeth or vnbeleue euen so be wee by all the perticuler admonicions of the Gospell opened shewed forthe vnto vs by the seruauntes of God visitynge correckynge admonishynge or coÌ„solatyng of vs other in health or sikcenes Nathanaell Thys poynte is inoughe opened Resureccion of the fleshe declared let vs come nowe vnto that whych foloweth of the resurrectioÌ„ of the flesh and the lyfe eternall whych shal be for the end coÌ„clusioÌ„ wherfore be these two last articles put in Phy. For manye causes for wythout them al the religion were nothynge for if we beleue not the resurrection of the flesh that oure bodyes shoulde ryse agayne after thys i Cor. xv mortall lyfe we