maliciously oppose himselfe to the knowledge of the truth or which shall resist the same Against the merit of the bloud of Iesus Christ and passion of the Crosse in proper termes haue they written that had Iesus Christ onely dyed by the sorrowes of corporall death and by the sheading of his whole bloud he had nought done nor profited for our redemption if beeing on the Crosse hee had not endured in his soule the paines of the damned before his death and other horrible blasphemies contained in the atticle of the discent into hell The Ministers do also instruct their adherents that murther adultery robbery theft and euery crime whatsoeuer is but a veniall sinne to one predestinate who is neuer say they out of the fauour of God what thing soeuer he commit and do assure their faithfull and those of theyr Church to beleeue firmly that they are in grace and predestinate which is in plaine termes albeit the Ministers will otherwise excuse thē to giue leaue and license to commit all wickednesse and other articles which the Doctors will verifie where the matter shall require the same If the Ministers denie these points to be in their writings and published in their Sect the places of Caluins bookes which the Doctors noted in the Margin wil testifie the same To be briefe behold the glory of God and of his sonne Iesus Christ wherevnto tend the Ministers by the rooting out of the pretended impieties mentioned in many articles of their last resolution For briefe answere wherevnto the Doctors doo say that some things by slaunder of the Ministers are falsly imputed to the Catholique Church that others are expressed in the holy scripture and others drawne from the same and confirmed by the traditions of the Apostles and the vniuersall consent of the first Christian church the deceits excepted which the Ministers adde in euery article And so shall it bee shewed and proued at the least in time and place if the Ministers haue patience to handle in it ranke euery difficultiie but if to make their doctrine confused they persist to mingle all together the Doctors do protest to mocke therat without answere Moreouer the Ministers in generall doo rightly attribute to the power of God and say well that the certaine knowledge thereof is to be taken by the scriptures which hath bene alwaies auouched to them by the Doctors Very well say they also that it is infinite and incomprehensible But when they come to particularities and to shew wherein the omnipotencie lieth and consisteth then forget they holy scriptures and without them do measure the same according to the wisdome and eternall wil of God according to the order established in the world and as though they remembred no more that such power were infinit they tie it to the conditiō proprietie natural order of creatures As though to make something against or aboue the order condition natural proprietie of the creatures were a thing repugnant to the wisedome nature and wil of God Behold the short resolutiō which the Doctors can gather of the Ministers opinion touching the omnipotencie of God which shall appeare by their writings and answeres giuen to the said Doctors And as touching S. Augustine which they produce for them he hath bene answered heretofore The Doctors refer them to their writings cōcerning that which the Ministers do falsly tax thē to hold as a sufficient argument to infer some matter to be done of God to shewe that he hath power to do it The resolutions and obiections of the Doctors do plainly containe the contrarie The Doctors are also falsly accused by the Ministers as if they had affirmed the faith wholly contrary to nature Who haue onely said that the contradiction ordinarily made to faith founded vpon the word commeth from the consideration of naturall things against the power of God Concerning Abrahā the scripture in Genesis alwaies proposeth that he his wife made some difficultie touching the promise of God And cōsidered Corpus suū emortuū mortuā vuluā Sarae His owne dead body the dead wombe of Sarah vntil he heard the assurance of the omnipotēcie And S. Paul sufficiently declareth the speech of Abraham from his first vocation vntil after such assurance without putting distinction in the Historie of that which was before or after such assurance as is that which the Apostle saith that he cōsidered not Corpus suū emortuū his owne dead body but rested vpon the assurance of the almightinesse of the promise made vnto him The Doctors say they haue better concluded according to the faith we ought to haue of the power of God to make one bodie in diuers places then the Ministers haue done which haue not any word of God to settle theyr faith vpō to beleeue that God could not do it or that it repugneth the wisedome prouidence and eternall vertue or the humanitie of Iesus Christ yea the nature of a simple bodie only But concerning all that the Ministers do trust in their owne presumption and particular reuelation without one onely passage of scripture wherevpon they might stay theyr opinion Contrariwise haue the Doctors founded their faith not on the power of God onely to make one body in diuers places but to beleeue the deed and that God hath so willed on the holy scripture as in theyr Resolution is contained with the passages of auncient Fathers which they to this end haue alledged Which are so plaine that the Ministers cannot iustly but affirme the same And their starting holes shall be cōuinced by the simple reading of the bookes For all the rest of the Ministers resolution where are mightie iniuries Impostures and slanders against the Doctors they answere nothing hauing regard to the Ministers manner of dealing And the Doctors also do well vnderstand that it should be lost labour to teach the Ministers who more esteem their owne particular reuelation for their whole instruction then all the doctrine and remonstrance of the Church vniuersall and all Christians together And freely do the Doctors pardon all the iniuries they haue done them as people voyd of sound sence and without iudgement which thing they declare by theyr maner of dealing An obiection of the Supper by the Doctors against the answere of the Ministers WHy the Doctors in the beginning of the conferences haue not touched the Article of the Supper it sufficiently appeareth by the first dayes Acts. And a deceit it is which the Ministers haue done in taxing them to haue recoyled from entering into that matter For it shall be proued as well by the offers which the Doctors haue often made to confer by word for quicker dispatch of the said matter and then at more leisure to put it in writing which the Ministers haue refused as also by the first obiections which the Doctors proposed touching the article of Gods omnipotencie wherby they touched the foundations vpon which are builded the errors of the pretended reformed religion against
resolution of all the Conference determine by Gods grace to couch briefly by writing and in the clearest manner they can all what God hath taught them concerning the same and what they haue learned thereof by his word as well to satisfie the debt and bond which they haue to God and his honour to obey my Lord of Neuers and Madame de Buillon as lastly for the contentment and edification of the whole Church The Conclusion and resolution of the points as well of the Supper as of the Masse containing a declaration of that which the Ministers beleeue concerning the same and teache thereof in their Church by the word of God THe end and chiefe felicitie of men is to be conioyned with God and to abide in him For as much as it is the only meane by which all their desires can be contented and satisfied and by the which also their mindes and hearts can be plainly freed and deliuered from the hard and cruel bondage of sinne and of all the passions greedie desires feares distrusts which do assaile them Which was the cause why S. Paul placeth perfect beatitude and entire repose of the blessed in this that God is all in all in them But for as much as men be naturally corrupt and wicked and contrariwise God in all perfection is pure and holy the difficultie is to knowe and choose the meane by which they may approach vnto him Seeing that there is no societie betweene light and darknesse nor any communion betweene righteousnesse and vnrighteousnesse In them cannot this meane bee found by reason that of themselues they are wholly vnable and vncaple to relieue themselues from the miserie and curse into which they be cast headlong So that beeing blinde of vnderstanding they cannot know their owne good nor seeke it being rebels and heart-hardened and therefore of necessitie must they goe out of themselues and seeke the aboue said meane in Iesus Christ who was giuen them of the Father to bee their righteousnesse wisedome sanctification redemption way life and truth Then resteth it now to knowe how they may bee vnited and conioyned with him The Apostle dooth teach vs that the same is done by faith by which Iesus Christ dwelleth in our hearts and abideth in vs so that hee and wee are made one and hee and his Father are one Now there are two principall causes of this faith the one outward and the other inward The inward is the holy Ghost who is called the spirit of faith for as much as he is the Author thereof and createth and bringeth it forth in the harts of men mollifying and disposing them to receiue with all obedience the word and promise of God which is preached vnto them by the faithfull stewards and Ministers of the same Which word is the outward cause of faith And as the same faith groweth and riseth by degrees euen so doth the vnion which we haue with Iesus Christ and by his meanes with God vntill as saith S. Paul wee all meete together in the vnitie of faith and knowledge of the sonne of God vnto a perfect man and vnto the measure of the age of the fulnesse of Christ The increase of faith is wrought by the working and power of the holy spirite who was the first beginning and author thereof and afterwards by the continuance of the word purely preached and denounced and finally by the lawfull vse of the Sacraments ordained as seales for the certaintie and confirmation of faith and assurance wee haue of the foresaid coniunction with God through Iesus Christ and of the participation of all the good things grauntes gifts graces and blessings which by his fauour are purchased and gotten for vs. As of the remission of sinne of our regeneration of the mortification of the flesh and the lusts thereof To signifie which things and more amply assure vs of the exhibition and enioying of the same Baptisme was ordained of God to the end that in the water which is powred vpon our bodies and in the promise of God which is therevnto added we may behold as it were with our eies the inuisible grace which God vouchsafeth vs to wash and cleanse vs from our spirituall filthinesse and to fanctifie vs and make vs new creatures As also to further assure vs alwayes of life eternall and make vs growe in the hope wee haue thereof by the participation of the flesh of Iesus Christ crucified for our redemption and of his bloud shead for remission of our sinnes the bread and the wine are distributed vnto vs in the Supper by the ordinance of Iesus Christ But as the Ministers acknowledge that there is a vnion and sacramentall coniunction betweene the outward signe and thing thereby signified so say they on the other side that betweene them two there is such a distinction that the one ought neuer to be confounded with the other nor the spirituall thing in such sort fastened to the corporall which representeth the same that the one without the other cannot be receiued or that the two by necessitie bee alwayes inseperably conioyned together Whereof it followeth that they erre which will haue the bread in the Supper to bee chaunged into the substance of the bodie of Christ Iesus And they likewise which will haue him to be conioyned and corporally vnited therevnto So that whosoeuer receiueth and taketh the signes bee hee faithfull or vnfaithfull taketh and receiueth forthwith the thing by them signified Which error with the most part of others happening in this matter proceedeth of not well comprehending nor conceiuing what it is to eate the body and drinke the bloud of Iesus Christ Which thing ought not to bee vnderstood in sort as corporall meates are taken and eaten but after a spirituall manner onely as is declared in the sixt of Saint Iohn which in this consisteth that Iesus Christ dwelleth in vs and we in him and is done by the faith we haue in him as teacheth S. Augustine in the 25. tract vpon S. Iohn saying Why preparest thou the belly and the tooth beleeue and thou hast eaten And in the third booke and 16. Chapter de Doctrina Christiana where he saith as followeth When Iesus Christ saith except yee eate the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke his bloud ye haue no life in you It seemeth that hee commaundeth to commit some great offence It is therefore a figure wherby we ought to vnderstand no other thing but that it behoueth to communicate with the passion of the Lord and to retaine in our memorie that his flesh was crucified and wounded for vs. The eating then of the flesh and body of Iesus Christ is no other thing then a straight coniunction and vnion wee haue with him which is made by the faith wee adde to his promises Euen as by the mutuall promises made and receiued betweene man and woman the marriage is concluded and setled betweene them And although being so
may brag and vsurpe to haue this spirit particularly promised vnto him And as touching the particular inspiration of Esay it was not founded on his onely fancie and presumption but on the assurance that God gaue him by a worke supernaturall as is said in the 6. Chapter And further it was not yet sufficiently founded to bee beleeued as hauing inspiration had he not shewed the same by other effects and by other Prophesies already come to passe As it behooueth euery Prophet should doo before he were beleeued But leauing all those things as farre fetched and from the first proposition I referre the iudgement as before Answere There is not one of the Church if he be a ture member therof vnto whom the spirit of God is not communicated As S. Paul and S. Iohn in his first Catholique Epistle teacheth And as touching the pretended presumption there is great difference betweene the presumption and imaginations of the spirit of man which is but darkenesse and of it selfe knoweth nothing of the thing of God and the reuelations of the holy Ghost which are certaine and assured And where it is said that the answeres are farre off from the first proposition if it be so the demaâ—nds are so also Obiection The conclusion is if each one ought to be beleeued in saying hee hath a particular reuelation of the holy Ghost without otherwise shewing that they are holy Scriptures and that there is difference amongst them let euery one iudge if the demands and answeres be pertinent to this difficultie or no. And forasmuch as some of the newe doctrine doo shew no proofe more then others of their particular inspirations whether the one ought to be more beleeued then the other concerning the same Answere By the former answeres it hath beene declared how the reuelations pretended by particular persons ought to be examined by the meanes by which men may iudge whether they be of the spirit of God or no. Then spake Doctor Vigor saying that in the discourse aforesaid he had vnderstood many sayings contained in the answers of the Minister which were against the word of God as when he said that it behooueth first to honour the Sonne before the father Which the said Vigor reproouing the said Spyna maintained that thing to bee true affirming such proposition to be grounded and contained in the holy Scripture as in the Gospel and first Catholique Epistle of S. Iohn Vnto which Vigor replyed that in the said places the word First is not found Neuertheles least he fall on that which hath beene put forth and proposed in the beginning of the conference he wil not now enter into the confutation of that saying reseruing it to the end of all the conferences Answere The said Spyna required that Vigor should quote the places of the Scripture which hee pretended to bee contrarie to that was contained in his answere And where it is said that it first behoueth to glorifie the Sonne before the Father according as it is written in the places aboue noted for confirmation of his saying hee proposeth this reason founded on the Scripture We cannot know the Father if we haue not knowne the Sonne Wee cannot glorifie the Father if we haue not knowne him Therefore it followeth that the knowledge and glory of the Sonne is a degree to come to the knowledge and glory of the father which being referred by the said Vigor to be more amply handled in the end and conclusion of all the conference the said Spyna is so contented Obiection The sayd Vigor without wading further in this dispute obiecteth that by the same reason alledged by the said De Spyna It followeth that it first behooueth to honour the Father before the Sonne for by the Father wee come to the knowledge of the Sonne as it appeareth by that which our Lord sayd to Saint Peter Caro sanguis non reuelauit tibi sed pater meus qui in Coelis est Flesh and blood hath not reuealed this vnto thee but my Father which is in the heauens Where it is manifest that the heanenly Father did reueale to Saint Peter that our Lord was the Sonne of the liuing God Whereupon the sayd Vigor doeth thus argue If the reason of the sayd De Spyna bee good by the Father wee know the Sonne it behooueth then to honour the Father before the Sonne Answere To follow the order of the knowledge we may haue of Iesus Christ and of his Father proposed vnto vs in S. Iohn It behooueth to beginne by the Sonne and from the Sonne to come to the Father For Saint Phillip hauing once required that hee would shew vnto him and his other companions his Father hee said vnto him Phillip hee that hath seene me he hath seene my Father To teach them that the meane to come to the knowledge of the Father is the precedent knowledge of the Sonne which may bee also confirmed by that which is else where written where Iesus Christ saieth That no man knoweth the Father but the Sonne onely and hee to whom the Sonne will reueale him And to answere the authoritie of Saint Matthew alledged by the sayd Vigor the sayd De Spyna sayeth that in the text by him produced there is no mention made of the knowledge of the Father nor of the meane to come vnto it But onely of the reuelation made by the grace of GOD and his holy Spirite vnto Saint Peter and his other fellowes to know IESVS CHRIST and the Father in him Whereupon Vigor sayde hee referred himselfe to the hearer and reader that his obiection is not answere dreseruing for another Conference to treat more amply of that point if hee will maintaine it least hee should fall vpon that which hath beene formerly proposed whereunto the sayd De Spyna answered that hee so agreed The sayde Vigor vpon an answere made by the sayde De Spina where hee putteth difference betweene the certaine reuelation made by the Lord to a particular person and the holy Scripture addeth that hee is abashed of the same answere considering that men beleeue not the holy Scripture But in that they are acertained that the Lord is authour thereof who cannot lye Then likewise that if a particular man haue assurance that the reuelation is made vnto him by the Lorde or else that one is assured of the reuelation made to another as much is hee bound to giue faith to the reuelation as to the Scripture The which saying also hee will not as hee may handle and declare at large but come presently to the first question which is not yet resolued And prayeth the sayd De Spina to set forward the same Answere Where the sayde Vigor is abashed that the sayde De Spina should say in one of his answeres That the reuelation of the Lord and the word were things different the same is befalne him for not well conceiuing the sence of the saying For De Spina will not put difference touching the certainty
ea Thy truth ô Lord not mine nor of him or him but of all vs whom thou callest to communion terribly admonishing that wee haue not the truth priuate least wee be depriued thereof And touching the bookes of the old Testament which the Ministers will not receiue for Canonicall by the iudgement of their inward reuelation the Doctors doo shewe that before Saint Augustines time or at leastwise in his time in the Church vniuersall all the bookes which are contained in the holy Bible without distinction were holden and receiued for Canonicall as witnesseth the Councell of Carthage where S. Augustine was And also the Councell of Laodicia Now thus say the Doctors the Fathers which were present in these Councels if by inward inspiration wee must iudge of bookes they had it or at least they might perswade themselues to haue it more assuredly then many others The Ministers say that they iudge by their inward reuelation that they be not Canonicall The Doctors leaue it to iudgement which men ought rather beleeue whether the inspiration of the auncient Fathers receiued by the Church for so many hundred yeares vntill now or else the priuate and particular inspiration of the new Ministers They adde further that they submit themselues to proue that the auncient Fathers yea neare the time of the Apostles as Ireneus S. Ciprian Origen S. Ierome S. Augustine and others doo vse the testimonies of the bookes reiected by the Ministers yea for proofe of the doctrine against the heretikes And Saint Augustine himselfe in the 2. booke of Christian doctrine Cap. 2. dooth put all those bookes by name among the bookes Canonicall And Damascen likewise in his fourth booke de Orthodoxa fide Cap. 18. To know then whether a man haue the spirit of God to discerne and iudge of the bookes of the scripture he must bee reduced to the common consent and agreement of the Church for this is the ordinarie meanes left by God to that effect and the experience may bee made is an argument sufficient to conuince that the faithfull by inward inspiration cannot discerne the Canonicall bookes from the pretended Apocrypha Which might easily bee verified would the cause to come at this present some of the same pretended reformed Religion which haue not yet bene instructed in the diuision of the bookes vnto whom should one propose the bookes which the Ministers hold for Apocrypha they would in no wise distinguish them from other bookes of the holy Byble And vpon the whole they conclude that if one person hath the spirite of God c. vt supra Answere Touching the first Article the Ministers neuer said as may appeare by the reading of all the former answeres that their religion is founded on their particular reuelations but vpon the word of God as is proposed in the writings of the Prophets and Apostles Of the truth whereof they haue said to be principally assured by the â—estimoniâ— and reuelation of the holy spirit They also say that faith is not the truth to speake properly but the perswasion of the truth which in the scripture â—s â—aught vs. Moreouer that this faith is not of our owne getting but a pure giâ—t of God adding that the Ministers to make them lawfullâ— ought to bee sent not from the pretended Pastors which haue not but the â—yâ—le and onely name of Pastors but ought to be sent from God a it appeareth in Ieremy where this marke is proposed to knowe and marke a false Pastor or Shepheard when hee thrusteth in himselfe or is sent of an other then of God Touching the article following they adde that the true marke whereby one may certainly iudge of the reuelation is rather the word of God then the consent of many for as much as it oft times happeneth that the multitude in the Church declining from the word doo altogether erre as in the time of Micheas the time of Iesus Christ and afterward also of Constance the Emperour Concerning the Prophets which doo follow theyâ— owne spirite as bee those which leaue the word of God and depend vppon the commaundements and traditions of men or on the vanitie of their owne sence there is no doubt but they are false Prophets and that such persons are to bee shunned and reiected But great difference must bee put betweene the reuelations and testimonies of the spirit of God and the vaine imaginations of the hearts of men Touching that which the Doctors haue set foorth that heretikes as Anabaptists and others doo vse for confirmation of their errors the texts of scripture alledged by the Ministers It may so bee for as much as the scripture beeing common may bee produced and alledged of eueâ—ie one And yet men must not stay vpon that which is alledged but weigh and examine how and to what end and purpose it is alledged and in so dooing men shall knowe the difference betweene the Ministers and heretikes And concerning that produced of Brentius and Bucer namely wherein they affirmed that by the onely tradition of the Church the Canonicall bookes may be discerned from the Apocrypha This it seemeth cannot well serue the Doctors seeing they maintaine all the bookes of the Bible to bee Canonicall and neuerthelesse by that they haue said of Brentius and Bucer it appeareth that the one and the other following the tradition as they say put a distinction therein calling the one Canonicall and the other Apocrypha Touching the Article following wherein the Doctors alledge certaine textes of the auntient Fathers to take away the difference betweene the bookes Canonicall and Apocrypha The Ministers do answer that as they haue alledged some to proue the same so can they also for their part alledge some to that purpose as Saint Ierome in his Prologue called Galeatus and in an other which beginneth Frater Ambrosius vnto whom writing the summe of euery booke of the Bible hee mentioneth those onely which the Ministers call Canonicall They may alledge also two or three Catalogues recyted in Eusebius which they receiue not for Canonicall bookes but those which the Ministers themselues approue Moreouer the Councell of Laodicia which the Doctors haue alledged is for the Ministers for as much as it comprehendeth not the bookes in question And touching the experience they answere that it is a question of fact and that it may be alledged rather against the Doctors then the Ministers And finally that they loose not more time in often repeating of one selfe-same thing but hasten to conferre of the points of the confession which the Doctors will debate The Ministers do shewe that the 24. bookes of the old Testament which are in the Canon of the Hebrewes with all the bookes of the new Testament be on both sides approued Canonicall And they are wholly sufficient to decide all the points of their confession all that in generall which appertaineth to true religion And by meanes thereof they haue no cause at all to drawe backe from the Conference for the
it be of like authoritie with the proper writtings of the Apostles Answere The first question was whether the Creed were made by the Apostles Whereunto hath beene rendred sufficient answere After which it is lawfull to make the second demand which is diuers from that Obiection The second dependeth on the first and so hath it been made Whether it bee thought sufficiently answered let the iudgement thereof be referred to the reader Answere Because it dependeth thereupon it is not therefore the same Question Whether they approoue the Creed onely because they know it to be conformable to the writings of the Apostles Or whether there any other cause which incyteth them to beleeue it Answere It is not onely conformable but the doctrine it selfe and for that cause doo they beleeue it and approoue it Question Whether a man be not bound to receiue it but for so much as hee knoweth it to bee the same writing or conformable to the writings of the Apostles as is aforesaid Answere The principall cause that may moue him that beleeueth it to beleeue it is the knowledge afore spoken of Question Although this be the principall cause they require an absolute answere whether there be not other sufficient cause to beleeue it in such wise as this first is necessarie Answere For the Creed and euery other thing we beleeue the principall cause is the knowledge we haue that the same hath bene left in writing or collected of the writings of the Prophets and Apostles And we for our part seeke no other reason but that of the faith which we haue Obiection They answere not vnder correction to the question which is whether to receiue the Creed of the Apostles this cause be necessary to know the cōformitie of the said Creed with the writings of the Apostles and that without the same none can or ought to receiue it The Doctors pray them to auoyd circumlocution and answere absolutely the one or the other And more simply to explane the question this it is to wit whether one ought not to receiue the Creed of the Apostles but because he knoweth that it is conformable to the Apostles writings Answere The matter considered after the doctrine of S. Paul that there is no true faith without knowledge and assurance of the word to beleeue it behoueth to know that it is the word of God Question It would be knowne whether they vnderstand this word to be written or not written Answere The word written and reuealed by the Prophets and Apostles which is the foundation of the Christian faith Obiection The Ministers doo then maintaine that before the beleeuing of the Creed or proposing it to be beleeued it behoueth to be instructed or to instruct an other in the writings of the Apostles and Prophets Now that is contrary to all the order euer holden in the Church and contrary to that which is contained in the forme prescribed for administration of the Sacraments in the Church at Geneua made by Caluin and inserted amongst his workes which beareth these words addressed to them that haue charge of the childe they baptise For as much as the matter wee haue in hand is to receiue this childe into the fellowship of the Christian Church yea do promise whē it shal come to yeares of discretion to instruct it in the doctrine which is receiued and approued of Gods people And after these words is inserted the Creed after which it is said they shall proceed to the instruction of the childe in all the doctrine contained in the holy scripture of the olde and new Testament so that before they propose the Creed to be beleeued they propose not to be beleeued that there is any word of God written nor what it is nor that therein contained to know the conformitie of the Creed with the same Also they place not the foundation of the beleeuing of the Creed vpon the knowledge and conformitie of the scripture but vpon the doctrine receiued and approued by the people of God As the auncient Church yea before the scriptures of the new Testament were written did wontedly propose both to great and small the beliefe of the Creed before they proposed the holy scriptures vnto them as by Christian antiquities appeareth And therefore the beliefe of a Christian touching the Creed dependeth not on the written word but vpon the word reuealed to the people and church of God Answere Touching the first article it is very necessarie that in teaching a childe or any other ignorant person the Creed of the Apostles they also forthwith teach him the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets seeing that which is contained in the Creed is no other thing but the selfe-same doctrine and that they are things not onely conioyned but also like if not in words yet at least in sence and substance Touching the second article they denie that that abouesaid is any way cōtrary to the established order in the church of Geneua or any other well gouerned Church And as touching the reason drawne frō the forme of the Baptisme vsed in the said Churches it followeth not by the alledged words and sayings thereof that Caluin proposed thē to exclude the Creed and to seperate the same from the writings and doctrine of the Prophets Apostles which is impossible but plainly to shewe that when he added that word hee meant therin to comprehend it and generally which the Doctors haue omitted in their allegation to comprehend that which remaineth in the holy scriptures after the deduction he had made of the points of doctrine particularly comprised in the Creed And for the other reason added that the Creed was proposed to those that were catechised before any booke of the new Testament was written they grant it But it followeth not therefore that it was not founded on the word and doctrine which the Apostles did preach although then not put in writing And likewise on the writings of the Prophets wherevpon is founded the doctrine of the Apostles For conclusion the Ministers put no difference as touching the sence betweene the word of God preached and written Obiection The Ministers it seemeth haue not well conceiued the meaning of the Doctors For the question is not whether the Creed bee conformable in it selfe to the writings Apostolike but whether it first behoueth to beleeue and vnderstand that the Apostles and Prophets haue put a doctrine in writing vnto which the Creed is conformable and that otherwise the Creed cannot bee beleeued And for more easie explanation the question is whether it be not possible for a childe being come to yeares of discretion or any other by the instruction of the father and mother or others to beleeue the articles of the Creed without being first instructed by them that there are certaine Apostolike writings vnto which the Articles of the Creed are conformable And whether to moue them so to beleeue it be necessary to know that conformitie Let the Ministers absolutely answere therevnto Answere Faith
of it proper essence So that it is impossible that a body should bee a body which is not measured and circumscript The first example they produce for confirmation of their saying is that a massie thing which naturally for the waight thereof declineth downward may be lifted on high Wherevnto the Ministers do answere that it may be done and that by violent motion But that this example nought serueth to ouerthrow that they haue said for as much as such things in themselues containe no contradiction and that they are not contrary to the essence of the thing where they happen For a stone which a man throweth vpward doth not therefore cease to be a stone neither by such a mouing is it not depriued of the waightinesse thereof To the example of the fire they answere that it is one selfesame reason of light as of heauie things and that without any corruption of their essence their naturall mouings may be changed by some force and violence done vnto them And as touching that they alledge of fire which contrary to it nature namely to heat and burne refreshed the three Iewes in the Babilonian furnace they answere that the fire therefore was nothing altered in the essence nor qualiries thereof which may easily appeare in that it spared the three Iewes and burned and consumed those which kindled the same Whereof may be inferred that the cause why it did not offend them proceeded not because the nature or qualities thereof were any way changed but onely because the action thereof was suspended And where they alledge that two bodies may be at one instant in one selfe-same place together and for proofe therof propose that which is written in S. Iohn that Iesus Christ did enter where his Disciples were the doores beeing shut the Ministers do answere that it is not so in the text but the text sheweth that the Disciples beeing assembled in a place Iesus Christ stood appeared in the middest of them Whereof can be no way inferred that hee entred into the place where they were without opening of the doores nor that hee pierced them to enter therein And very like it is that they were opened and shut againe as well as those which the Angell did open and shut againe when hee was sent to deliuer S. Peter out of prison and when likewise hee was sent for the Apostles deliuerance As touching that they propose of a grosse body passing through a straight place alledging the example of a Cable through the eye of a needle The Ministers answere that it is ill to the purpose alledged and is an argument grounded vpon a thing impossible They say moreouer that the Doctors haue all vnderstood the word Camilos vsurped in the scripture not for a Cable but for a Camell as to them it is manifest which are but meanely seene in the antiquities of the Hebrewes And as appeareth by that which Angelius Caninius writeth in the end of his Caldean Grammer And for the conclusion which the Doctors drawe from the precedent examples it is from the purpose and founded vppon presupposed antecedents and premisses by them brought which in the sence they alledge them for the reasons aboue declared they neither haue nor will confesse vnto them Where they say that what the Ministers haue said touching a body that it cannot be in two places at one instant were it the body of Iesus Christ it selfe was neuer written by any of the auncient Fathers nor proposed before the comming of Peter Martyr and Theodoret Beza The Ministers do maintaine that it was And that S. Augustine in his Epistle to Dardanus saith the same in these tearmes According to this forme meaning the corporall forme of Iesus Christ we must not thinke that it is euery where And wee must beware least in establishing in him his diuinitie we take not frō him the veritie of his body And else-where hee saith That by reason of the nature and measure of a true body hee is in one place in heauen The selfe-same thing saith Therdoret in his second Dialogue as hath bene before alledged And so doth Vigilius in his fourth booke against Eutiches where hee writeth as followeth If the word and flesh be but of one nature how commeth it to passe that the flesh is not found euery where as the word of which word it was taken to constitute one selfe-same person and Hypostaly is euery where for when it was on the earth it was not in heauen and now that it is in heauen surely it is not on the earth And so farre off is it that he is there that we attend Iesus Christ to come according to his flesh whom neuerthelesse we beleeue as he is the word to be here on earth with vs. By these and other like authorities often found in the writings of the Fathers men may know that Peter Martyr and Theodoret Beza are not the first authors of this doctrine and that it is falsly imputed to them for as much as they haue but drawne and word by word copied as it were the same out of the bookes of the auncient Fathers To that which the Doctors pretend that the forme of arguing which the Ministers haue vsed affirming some things to be impossible to God doth not derogate his omnipotēcie ouerthroweth the forme of the argument which the Angell speaking to the virgin vseth for cōfirmatiō of that which he declared vnto her that is that nothing is impossible to God The Ministers do answere that it is nothing to the purpose for as much as the question is neither of a thing which containeth in it self any contradiction nor that is contrary to the truth of God which be the two matters they haue alledged and yet do alledge for the expositiō of the omnipotencie of God And touching that which the Doctors do adde that God can change the nature and qualitie of things there is no man doubteth the same But whē that is done it behoueth also to auow that the things be changed that they remain not in their first nature And the Ministers say that it is not all one with the thing here proposed for as much as the Doctors wil haue a thing to remain in it essence and nature although the essentiall parts therof be changed altogether extinct and abolished Touching the limitation of the power of God towards his creatures there is none so presumptuous to attempt to limit the same in whatsoeuer he wil and which confesseth not that he may ordaine dispose of all his creatures in generall as it pleaseth him as a Potter doth of his earth And thervnto say they ought the authoritie of Ieremy to be referred as it appeareth very clearly by these Hebrew words L◠gippale Mimmecha col-dauar To wit nothing shal be hard to thee ô Lord. Concerning the danger which the Doctors pretend may come of the abouesaid answeres of the Ministers they answer that men of sound and good judgement wil neuer drawe thereof
his body to be locally in heauen and Sacramentally really neuerthelesse and substantially in the Sacrament of the Aultar Thus would the Doctors desire to heare the Ministers vpon this point and then afterwards to put their answere in writing And the Ministers shall neuer be able to shewe by the word of God that their faith can make at one instant and one selfe-same place a thing to be present and not present And one thing present and not present by faith is as much to say as that the body of Iesus Christ is in and not in a faithfull person And no Coduit pipe of the power of the holy Ghost should there also be needfull to conuey the flesh of Iesus Christ hither vnto vs from heauen were not the said flesh but in heauen and notwithstanding came vnto vs. And as touching the points obiected by the Doctors that Peter Martyr and Theodoret Beza were the first which said that God could not make one body to bee in two places and the Ministers haue willed to confirme by antiquitie this new doctrine which they cannot name otherwise then blasphemie The Doctors say they haue often prayed the Ministers that time might be spared things better cleared to speake nothing from the purpose Notwithstanding they bring forthwith the testimonies of Fathers to shewe that a body by nature is circumscript and cannot be naturally in many places but those Authors say not that God cannot do it But S. Augustine and others in the places cyted by the Doctors touching the article of the closed doores do rather witnesse that two bodies by the power of God may occupie one selfe-same place which is of like difficultie And when they shall come to the proofe of the reall presence of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ they will euidently shewe that wholly all the auncient Fathers which haue spoken of that Sacrament haue not onely confessed that hee could make his body to bee aboue in heauen and here belowe in the Sacrament but all with one accord haue declared that they beleeue according to the word of Iesus Christ that he is in heauen and here in the Sacrament The Doctors demaund of the Ministers whether they haue any that before Peter Martyr and Theodor Beza denied such power of God And let them no more set foorth the authorities of the Fathers to prooue that one body is not naturally in two places The Doctors doo not maruell if the Ministers do magnifie Peter Martyr from whom they haue taken all the places they haue brought Concerning the Article which beginneth Touching that which the Doctors pretend that the forme c. The Doctors say that this forme is common as often as men will debate of the power of God And they cannot be better guided to proue it then to follow the words of the Angel That there is nothing impossible to God From the which when a man will except something hee will alwaies bring what the Ministers do bring that there is some repugnancy of things whereof ensueth some implication of contradiction As did the olde heretiques against the flesh of Iesus Christ who brought alwayes some impossibilitie according to nature And as much did they against the Article of the Resurrection and incarnation as though there had bene contradiction that God should be man and man should be God And it shall be alwayes easie for an euil spirit to forge some contradiction in his conceit according to the proprieties of nature And concerning the Article beginning As touching that which the Doctors do adde that God can change c. The Doctors say that the Ministers haue not wel conceiued their meaning for they take for an absurd thing that a substance remaining affected of his qualities can by the power of God haue effects contrary to his qualities As if God by his omnipotencie could not make the fire hauing his naturall heate to coole in stead of burning which none of sound and Christian iudgement will deny Concerning the Article beginning Touching the limitation of the power c. The Doctors say that it seemeth by the Ministers answere that the power of God is limited according to his will as much to say as God cannot doo but what he will which is notoriously false For the Hebrew alledged the Ministers it seemeth are willing to shew they are skilfull therin For such summoning is not to the purpose when as they stay chiefly vpon the word Dauar which is as much to say as one thing But it ought not to bee vnderstood of a thing done they said to be done And such is the sence of the place ad verbum Shall there be any thing hidden from me And because hard things are hidden things impossible also are yet more hidden Behold why they haue translated Is there any thing hard or impossible to mee Which holy Pagninus and other Interpreters of the Hebrew tongue do wel declare that the verbe Pala signifieth to hide The Doctors had no desire to answer herevnto but to make it bee vnderstood that an Hebrew word doth not appaule them Cōcerning the article beginning Touching the danger c. The Doctors say that they are words superfluous and whatsoeuer the Ministers can bring the same may other vse and retort against the said Ministers And where they say it is a slaunder in that they obiect vnto them that they corrupt the scripture the Doctors say that the Ministers cannot denie but they change the sence glose the words of the Supper This is my body This is my bloud And with like authoritie as they vnder pretence of I know not what reasons may each one pretend to corrupt the other scriptures alledge some impossibilities contradictiōs of nature As touching the article beginning To that which they adde that the scripture saith that the body c. The Doctors do say that in time and place they will shewe what they haue obiected when as they shall treate more amply of the Sacrament of the Aultar Where the Doctors haue obiected that the Ministers do not ground their affirmation to wit that God cannot make one body to be in two places vpon the expresse testimonie of the scripture or can thereof deduct the same The Ministers for all places haue onely brought but these that God cannot lye God cannot denie himselfe But the Doctors say that this consequence is nought worth God cannot lye God cannot therefore make one body to be in two places which neuerthelesse the Ministers should haue made such had the places produced serued to that purpose Ioyned that when it is said God cannot lye as the Ministers themselues haue cyted to be able to lye is not power but infirmitie So that according to the true sense it was meet so to say God is not weake that he can lye Therfore God cannot make one bodie to be in two places which consequence should be ridiculous And where the Ministers haue brought certaine authorities of the auncient Fathers to proue
there is diuersitie betweene the creatures and Creator and that the Creator by nature is euery where and naturally the creatures be not in diuers places the Doctors reuerently imbrace the authoritie of the holy Fathers But to produce the said places for coÌ„firmation of a thing so well knowne and not doubted of their trauell was now needlesse But the Doctors yet attend one sole place of the scripture or one sole testimony of the auncient Fathers which saith That God cannot make one body to be in diuers places The Doctors pray the Ministers that with like reuerence they receiue the auncient Fathers chiefly touching the interpretation of holy scriptures whose exposition as are the places aboue cyted shal be agreed vpon betweene them and the Ministers Vpon request made to the Lord Neuers on the behalfe of the Ministers that hee would please to assigne a day for answere particularly to all and euery article and slaunders here aboue proposed by the Doctors in their obiection The said Lord ordained that the Ministers should carry with them that euening one of the Copies of the Doctors obiections against them to be ready the next morrow by noone to answer thervnto which the Doctors agreed vnto And made likewise request to the said Lord of Neuers to haue leaue if it so seemed them good to reply to the answers that the Ministers should make And therwith to deliuer their resolution touching this article of the omnipotency of God To th' end to proceed and examine the reall truth of the bodie of Iesus Christ in the Sacrament of the Aultar Whervnto the Ministers added that they also for their parts would deliuer a briefe resolution of all that which shall be deduced by them The company assembled on the morrow beeing Wednesday the 17. of Iuly My Lord of Neuers considering that the Doctors the day before had imployed all the time without any left for the Ministers to make present answere to them supposed no lesse time would be needfull for the Ministers to answerefully which had bene a thing tedious and irksome For this cause and others by him declared he ordained they should thenceforth speake by writing And that the Ministers should carry with them the Copie which was giuen them to make answere therevnto and to send it vnto him signed by them and two Notaries Of which he would cause a Copie to be written by his Secretary to giue it to the Doctors reseruing the Originall to himselfe And in like sort would he keepe for the Ministers the Copie of that which the Doctors should send him Wherevnto both parts submitting themselues they disputed afterwards by writing as followeth The Answere of the Ministers to the Obiections of the Doctors giuen on Tuesday the 16. of Iuly 1566. THe Ministers deny that the consequence proposed by the Doctors to wit God cannot make one body to be in two places at one selfe-same instant Therfore â—e is not omnipotent is necessary For as much as the omnipotency of God ought not to be measured but by the things only which be agreeable to his will and are not derogate either to his nature or to his wisdome or to his truth or to the order he established in the world Vnto which that directly repugneth which the Doctors set forth that one selfe same body at one selfe-same instant may be in diuers places For it would follow that a body should be a body without being limitted And by consequence that it should be and not be altogither For the measures as to be long large thicke and to be bounded limitted with certaine bounds are so essentiall to a body that without that it is no more a body And so farre of is it that the Ministers in so saying do diminish the omnipotency of God that contrariwise they establish the same and will not attribute to him any mutabilitie and chaunge in his counsaile nor any contradiction in his will for feare to make him lye which by the scripture is impossible to him And where the Doctors alledge froÌ„ the Fathers that they haue not denied the omnipotency of God The Ministers haue heretofore shewed that they haue and in what case it may happen Tertullian in his booke written against Praxeas speaking of this matter saith as followeth Surely nothing is hard vnto God But if without iudgemeÌ„t we wil vse this sentence and interpret it according to our foolish fantasie we may faine all things to be of God and say that he hath done them because he can do them Now must it not be beleeued because he can do all things that therfore he hath done what he hath not done but enquired whether he hath done it And finally concludeth that the power of God is his wil and his inhabilitie likewise his vnwillingnesse The Doctors then to shew that he can do it should declare that God hath willed to make a body which at one selfe-same instant hath bin in diuers places And a maruellous thing it is that they impute to the Ministers that they derogate from the omnipotency of God when as they do except froÌ„ the same what is contrary to his wil seeing they themselues do confesse it and except the same things And that there is no other difference between theÌ„ the Ministers but that they say that God maketh one body to be in diuers places at one selfe instaÌ„t because he can do it And the Ministers say that he doth it not and cannot do it because he wil not do it For as much as is said according to Tertullian the power of god is his wil. Touching the reason that the Doctors do alledge in Phisosophie to proue that a bodie for being a bodie doth not therfore leaue to be in diuers places The Ministers say they suppose a falshood To wit that quantitie is accidentall and not essentiall to a body For that to wit that a body is measured bounded and circumscript is in such sort of it essence that without that it is no more a bodie As S. Augustine him selfe speaking of the glorified body of Iesus Christ saith That if space be taken away from a body there is no more place where it might be and by consequence being no part is no more at all The reaso of Philosophie they propose touching the first heauen as that it is not in any place The Ministers do denie it for to speake according to the language of the scripture it must be confessed that there is place eâ—en aboue the heauens As Iesus Christ said vnto his Disciples I go to prepare a place for you And in the same place In my Fathers house there are many mansions And else where Where I am taking the present time for the future there shal my seruants be In the which sentence must be obserued that there be aduerbes of place And S. Augustine writing to Dardanus expresly saith That it behoueth that the body of Iesus Christ be in some place in heaueÌ„ because it is a true
them And for conclusiō they haue no other foundation of their saying then their owne coniectures and imaginations and the false interpretations which they giue to the writings of the Fathers To the faith wherof they would gladly constraine subiect the Church to the end that hauing laid that foundation they might afterwards build therevpon all the absurdities and errors they shall delight in touching the same And where they presuppose when Christ entered the shut doores walked vpon the waters and went out of the Sepulchre that such myracles were done rather in the person then in the other things Iustine writeth the contrarie saying that without any change happened either in his body or in that of S. Peter he made by his diuine power the Sea against nature to serue him to walke As also S. Hillary to the same purpose saith That by his power hee made all things passeable Wherevnto likewise agreeth S. Iohn Chrisostome attributing all that to diuine power and freely confessing that hee knew not the maner and the fashion thereof By meanes whereof the Ministers are much abashed that the Doctors are so presumptuous to determine a thing which by the scripture and Fathers hath bene left vndecided and wherein as S. Hillary saith wisely sence and words do faile the truth of the deed exceedeth the capacitie of humane reason How dare then the Doctors so boldly say that the body of Iesus Christ passed through the doores that there was penitration of dimensions that two bodies were in one selfe-same place Seeing that of all that neither in the scripture nor in the auncient Fathers there is not one onely sillable and that as is said the Fathers do confesse that their vnderstanding and sence were too feeble to comprehend or declare the reason of such a my sterie As touching the birth of Iesus Christ the Ministers repose themselues vpon the scripture which saith clearly that the Virgin was with childe that she brought forth that shee gaue sucke and that Apertaest vulua the wombe is opened in the child-birth They adde that the same doth nought derogate nor preiudice her virginitie and purenesse which consisteth in this point onely that shee knew not not was knowne of any man Moreouer they say that in beleeuing the same they follow the scripture and consequently they cannot erre nor bee heretikes nor they likewise which subiect and subdue their sence to the word of God as in this haue done the Fathers which are by them alledged In the following article proposed by the Doctors touching the manner of the resurrection of Iesus Christ there is nothing but coniectures slaunders repetitions troublesome and superfluous which the Ministers by their former answeres haue largely satisfied All that which afterwards followeth in the writings of the Doctors are but iniuries and scoffes in stead of reasons and arguments which is the last recourse of contentious spirits who seeing themselues destitute of reason and vnable to giue place to the truth defend themselues by clamours and slaunders Some reason should the Doctors haue for that which they say concerning the word Aphantos if there followed Autois but that which the Euangelist saith Ap'auton sheweth clearely that the interpretation of the said place and vnderstanding of S. Ambrose where vnto the Ministers agree is better then that of the Doctors As touching the opening of the heauens the Ministers answere that vsing the language of the scripture which saith clearely that in the baptisme of Iesus Christ the heauens were clouen asunder and then opned when S. Stephen was stoned they cannot faile And to apply to the ayre the signification of heauen is a humane imagination This also seemeth should diminish the Maiestie of God and of Iesus Christ who is lifted vp aboue all the heauens to establish so lowe as the ayre the Throne of his Maiestie And there is no likelyhood in that which the Doctors say touching the being of two bodies in one selfe-same place and that which the Ministers say of the sight of Stephen which extended euen to the heauens for as much as the one is a myracle of the power of God in nature and the other a wonder against nature and the will of God The Doctors in the article following do falsly impute to the Ministers that they affirmed it was a thing impossible for God to make a Camell to passe through the eye of a needle for they neuer touched this point in theyr former answeres but that part of the sentence onely where it is spoken of rich men Now to answere too and resolue their obiections the Ministers say that euen as God can saue a rich man by chaunging him and emptying his heart of so much vaine trust and presumption as is therein and whereof beeing grosse and filled hee is vncapeable to enter into the Kingdome of heauen so to him it is also easie to make a Camell passe through the eye of a needle hauing circumcised and pared off the grossenesse thereof and other things which might hinder the same to passe ****** First that the Supper which is celebrated in the reformed Church is the true institution and ordinance of the sonne of God Afterwards that the end for which it was instituted is to assure the faithfull of the true participation which they haue in the flesh of Iesus Christ crucified for their saluation and in his bloud shead for the remission of their sinnes and for the confirmation of the new couenant which God hath made with his people Thirdly they say that it is necessarie that the bread and wine abide in their proper substance and that after consecration otherwise they cannot be Sacraments of the body and bloud of Christ Lastly the Ministers say that the vnbeleeuers presenting themselues at the Supper by meanes of their vnbeliefe can there no other thing receiue then the outward signes of bread and wine and that to their iudgement and condemnation The Ministers on the other side propose vnto them touching the Masse that such as it is and now celebrated in the Romance Church it is nothing but a humane inuention and tradition Also that it is a corruption and prophanation as well of the holy Supper of our Lord Iesus Christ as of the true and lawfull vse thereof Also that it is an abuse of the Priesthood of Popish Priests and that there is no other Priesthood in the new Testament ordained to get and obtaine remission of sinnes nor also to make intercession and by prayers and merits to obtaine the fauour of God then the onely Priesthood of Iesus Christ They say moreouer that it is a blasphemie and sacriledge but of the sacrifice of the Romish Priests and that there is no other oblation then that which Iesus Christ once made with his body vpon the Crosse by which the wrath of God could be appeased his iustice satisfied sinners reconciled to God sinnes pardoned and the hand-writing of eternall death cancelled and abolished Also they say that the seperation of
iudgements Where the Ministers complaine of the time they haue lost in reading the reasons arguments and allegations touching the closed doores and other articles The Doctors say that in the matter in question the Ministers haue no cause to complaine of ouer-great prolixitie for feare of loosing time And that there is matter sufficient to spend the time withall would they with patience bringing with them good will and all passion excluded examine the testimonies of the Auncients and reasons drawne from the same But the Doctors do wel proue that when there is any thing which presseth the Ministers then set they a good face on the matter and make semblance to haue right on their side Moreouer the Doctors are much amazed how the Ministers are so bold to say that Iustin and all the Auncients haue not placed the myracle of the passage of the doores in the body of Iesus Christ seeing that Iustin expresly proposeth the question how it is possible that a thicke bodie is not hindered to passe through the closed doores In the answere of which question they conclude the same that for as much as such myracle was done in the nature of the body of Iesus Christ the Apostles esteemed it was not a true bodie but a spirite as if the bodie had beene transformed into a spirite which Iustin saith did not happen but that without any chaunge of nature such an operation to passe through the closed doore was giuen to the body of Iesus Christ by the omnipotencie of God and Iustin saith not that any myracle was wrought in the sea when Iesus walked therevpon but that by the almightinesse which was in him he made it walkeable without any chaunge of the nature either of his body or of the sea although that the myracle were in his body which against it nature so walked It is not sufficient to alledge out of S. Hillary that the power of God made passage to the body of our Lord. For he saith not that onely but addeth the manner of the deed to wit that the body passed without change or diminishing of it nature and without hauing any opening But that by the operation of the almightinesse he passed notwithstanding which wrought in his body piercing the shut and closed places Nihil inquit cessit ex solido parietum nothing ceased saith he of the firmnesse of the walles and other like words which he bringeth of which can no other thing be vnderstood but a piercing of many bodies S. Chrisostome expresly disputeth of the body which against it nature passed through the closed doores as through the wombe of the virgin without fraction And he saith not simply that hee knoweth not wherein the worke consisted for he describeth it but he amplifieth the power of the worke and saith that he cannot comprehend the reason and greatnesse thereof for as much as it proceeded from the power of the incomprehensible Cod. Concerning this whole point the Doctors refer them to the reading of the bookes without more debating thereof against the Ministers who think alwayes to abuse the ignorance of those which beleeue thē denying or affirming what they thinke good And it troubleth and grieueth the Doctors that they are constrained to repeate the former reasons so familiarly and clearly deducted But the Ministers euasions so often repeated enforce thē eftsoones to inculeate that which of these articles ought to be beleeued by the common consent of the Fathers The Doctors are abashed at the maner of the Ministers answere who without regard of that hath bene obiected to them say what they please without answering to the arguments of the matter proposed As they do in the article of the byrth of Iesus Christ In the deductiō wherof the Doctors haue brought many testimonies of the Ancients which hold that our Lord as he was also there conceaued myracuculously issued from the wombe of his mother And that the said Fathers did witnesse such byrth to haue bin made without any fraction in the body of the virgin and condemned of heresie all those which held the contrary Which thing the Ministers will yet maintain and for full answere affirme the same relying as they say vpon the scripture and not daring to say openly that to cleaue to their proper sence they reiect the determination of the ancient primitiue Church Which is very cleare notwithstanding by their answere to this article wherein they falsly cyte the scripture as though it contained that in the byrth of our Lord Aperta fuerit vulua virginis The wombe of the virgin was opened And where they say that such an opening repugneth not the corporall virginitie whereof is the question they belye the resolution of the auncient Fathers which haue determined of that deed Whether in the Article of the Resurrection there be but coniectures the reading of the Doctors obiection will witnesse The which they may see that desire to know the truth thereof Where the Ministers do complaine in the end of the article of the Resurrection that the Doctors do wrong and scoffe them the Doctors doubt not but the Ministers are sore troubled that their subtilties and maner of dealing are discouered the which did men well vnderstand they would not suffer themselues so easily as heeretofore to be deceiued The solution which the Ministers pretend to giue because it is not Aphantos autois but Ap'auton is impertinent For howsoeuer it was our Lord was inuisible to his Disciples were it by suddaine vanishing or otherwise the which vanishing in a body present to perfect sight cannot be done except the body be made to them inuisible And howsoeuer it be the Greeke Text beareth inuisible and vnapparant As touching the article of the opening of the heauens the Ministers as they are wont answere not to the purpose For it is not said that the heauens were clouen asunder or opened when he ascended thither as at the baptisme of Iesus Christ and when it is spoken of the vision of S. Stephen But the scripture saith expresly that Iesus Christ pierced the Heauens and not that the Heauens were opened vnto him And the Ministers cannot forbeare to slaunder the Doctors in deprauing the vnderstanding of their writings as is seene in this present answere where the Ministers faineto haue vnderstood in that place of the scripture mencioning Iesus Christ to haue pierced the Heauens that the Doctors by the name of Heauen will haue the ayre to be signified which the Doctors neuer thought but haue oft times sayd that when it mencioneth the opening of the Heauens by the Heauens it vnderstandeth the aire which so ought not to be applyed when our Lorde is sayd to haue pierced the Heauens By such manner of answere do the Ministers thinke to cause the force of the Doctors reason to be forgotten Who said thus If when it is said in the scripture that the Heauens were opened the words ought strictly to be taken and truly to be vnderstood that the heauens were opened It
the persons calling the Popes Bishops Priests Antichrists Ministers of Sathan against which reproaches the Doctors content themselues to shewe by the word of God when occasion serueth that such tytles agree neither with the persons nor yet the doctrine by them preached Now although that the Ministers and their furie deserue a sharpe reply yet to mittigate their so inflamed hearts the Doctors will not answere to the iniuries which touch their persons and estates referring the whole to the iudgement of the vnpassionate readers and will only touch the points which concerne the doctrine First the Ministers do great wrong to the Doctors and their like in comparing them to Donatists and falsly to impute vnto them that they tie the Church in a certaine place as did the Donatists which placed it onely in Affrike For it is manifest to all that the Doctors know not nor confesse any other Church then the Catholique which as it name importeth hath bene visible since the Apostles time and hath her spreading through the world in what region country or place soeuer the faithfull beleeuing in Iesus Christ are Although they reuerence the Church of Rome as chiefe and principall among others as Ireneus Tertullian S. Ciprian S. Augustine and other the auncient Fathers haue giuen it this honour to confesse it to be principall and mother as it were of other Churches with more iust reason may such obiection be retorted against the Ministers who cannot say their Church to be Catholike hauing taken it beginning in our time seene known at Geneua founded vpō the priuate opinion of one man without that in former time one could shewe such opinion to haue beene holden in any Nation whatsoeuer Which thing shall be handled in it order when they shall examine the errors by the Ministers maintained against this Article I beleeue the holy Catholique Church Moreouer the Ministers should not haue alledged the violence crueltie and furie of the Donatists against the Catholiques for such example doth condemne them and their like But because it doth not but bring fresh to memorie the passed euils which Fraunce hath endured by the instigation of the Ministers for feare to incyte them further to say new iniuries the Doctors will not dwell long vpon this matter Neuerthelesse they shewe vnto the Ministers that the Donatists reproached the Catholiques that they endured persecution by them and that to roote them out they sollicited the Emperours and Magistrates euen as the Ministers doo blame the Doctors Who confesse first to desire the conuersion of all Sects and in case they will not come to repentance that the Magistrates by good and holy lawes may execute such punishment therefore as God bee not so outragiously blasphemed and the people grieued And therein they follow the doctrine of Saint Augustine expressed in an Epistle sent Advincentin contra Donatistas Where he confesseth that the Catholiques did persecute the Donatists and that contrariwise the Donatists also afflicted the Catholiques but that the persecutions were different That those of the Catholiques were not executed but by the Magistrate and came of charitie to roote out the euill which hindred the peace and tranquilitie publike And contrariwise the persecution by the Donatists was made without authoritie of the Magistrate and proceeded of malice which pretended but mischiefe and ruine and S. Augustine declareth that the first was good and of God and the second wicked and by inspiration of Sathan And to this purpose he bringeth many excellent examples of holy scripture This hath bene somewhat largely handled to purge the Doctors of the slaunder imposed on them by the Ministers where they reproach them that in their preachings writings and conferences they search but onely to roote out the Ministers whom they haue alwayes persecuted And they interpret the same as therefore proceeding from a particular hate of the Doctors against them and not of charitie and zeale of truth and of the conuersion as well of the Ministers as of those which are seduced and abused by them The Doctors therein call God to witnesse and doo protest the contrarie and pray the Ministers to beleeue them attending therevpon the iudgement of God who is the onely searcher of the hearts and affections of men As touching the Article where the Ministers say that God is almightie because he can do whatsoeuer he will had they listed to read the writings of Saint Thomas whose doctrine they disdaine well had they knowne that this reason is no reason Because the Angels and they which are blessed conforming themselues alwayes to the will of God can doo all things that they will doo and there is no creature which can hinder the effect of theyr will and yet are they not almightie And as touching the saying of S. Augustine in taking it so as the Ministers do take it The reason of Gods omnipotencie is ouer-weake and false But to haue the true vnderstanding of this sentence it behoueth to consider that there is a difference betweene the actuall will of God and the power of will For God can wil many things which he willeth not nor euer will And euen so can he will more then he actually willeth whereby they ought rather to measure his omnipotencie then to measure it according to his actuall will And thus must be interpreted the text of S. Augustine that the almightinesse extendeth to all things which he can will and not according to that he actually willeth And S. Augustine is cyted by the Ministers being destitute of testimonie of scripture albeit they vaunted in their former answere to haue learned this reason by the scriptures In the article following the Ministers by slaunder doo falsly taxe the Doctors to haue cut off some words of theyr last writing which will not be found to bee true For the text of the Doctors beareth these words It is not to bee doubted but that aboue all conceit and imagination of humane spirit the power of God is great infinite and incomprehensible Where it clearly appeareth that the Doctors speake generally of all conceit and imagination without any exception thereof be it of wisedome or folly Therfore was it not needfull to expresse the words of the Ministers seeing that the Doctors spake generally And that which goeth before doth shewe the same as the Ministers haue cyted it where it is said that the Doctors reproued the said Ministers because they gaue some restraint and limitation of the omnipotencie of God For as much as they would not stretch it generally to all the things which men can conceiue and in their mindes imagine Where the words generally and all things do sufficiently declare that the Doctors haue willed to comprehend end the foolish phantasies and imaginations themselues which men may apprehend according to humane iudgement and haue willed to cut off nothing from the writing of the Ministers who peraduenture haue thought the Doctors would not say that God can doo all that which a foolish braine can
the Doctors wel reason of the rigor of Penetrare as the Ministers did of the rigour of Aperire which more often is found in the scripture without signification of the reall opening of the heauens then Penetrare is found in the scripture to signifie a diuision and actuall cutting of the heauens For Aperire Caelos is often found for imaginary and spirituall opening and hardly is Penetrare Caelos euer found for actuall diuision of the heauens And therefore had the Doctors better reason to conclude by the rigour of the verbe Dierchesthai or Penetrare to pierce without actuall diuision of the heauens then the Ministers had to inferre the opening of them by the verbe Aperire The Ministers in the last article obiect to the Doctors that they haue passed ouer some places of scripture by which it appeareth that faith is the worke of God whervnto say the Doctors that in some one of their writings they haue expresly confessed that faith in as much as it is a gift of God it is a worke of God but in as much as he that beleeueth worketh together with God in beleeuing for Nemo credit nisivolēs no man beleeueth vnlesse he be willing it is a humane work And it is not repugnāt one self-same work for diuers causes to be a worke of God and a worke of man And where they say that the auncient Fathers haue said if not in proper yet in equiualent termes that God could not cause one body to be in diuers places that is false And the Ministers neuer haue nor can shewe the same and contradict their last writing For bringing the reason why the Fathers haue not expresly said it It was said they because they neuer thought that such an absurditie would euer fall into the braine of man Which reason ought to haue place for the saying in termes equiualent as in expresse termes sith one selfe-same thing is signified as well by the one as by the other As touching the rest the Ministers neuer answer to the principall point whereof they haue bene so often admonished and they efsoones admonish them should they a thousand times call this saying a repetition to wit that they are required to bring scripture to proue that it repugneth the order established in the world the truth the wisedome omnipotencie and vnchangeable will of God that one body may be in two places which thing they cannot do but they will answere as they are accustomed that is to say nothing Wherein appeareth that their doctrine is not founded vpon Gods word but vpon their owne opinion or particular inspiration which cannot be but of Sathan For it cannot be of the holy Ghost which is against the common consent of the Church vniuersall And vpon the same are also founded the other articles of their religion albeit they disguise them and promise Gods word to euery purpose A short Aduertisement of the Doctors vpon the Ministers Resolution touching the omnipotencie of God THe Doctors are astonied at the fashiō of the Ministers in their words and writings For they themselues from the beginning of the Conference haue neuer had patience to prosecute conclude one onely point without mingling other things therewithall impertinent to the matter in question as shal appeare by the reading of the acts And before their resolution made of the omnipotencie of God they haue heaped vp all the articles which they could remember and throwne one vpon an other without cause or reason Although the Doctors at their request had proposed the Articles of the Supper And after dispute of the omnipotencie of God to make present the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the holy Sacrament to come orderly to shewe and proue that the will of God hath bene such and that there it is But the Doctors well vnderstand the good custome of all them of the pretended reformed religion which is to spet in the eyes of Christians all the articles of the Religion and theyr inuented filthinesse all on one threed to the end that nought bee determined that all abide in confusion and that the Serpent glide awaye hauing cast his venome Moreouer by obseruation of the Ministers answeres it shall bee seene and knowne that they neuer stay vpon any certaine and the same answere but rather of an act alledged out of the scripture where of euery question they haue giuen therevnto diuers impertinent and sometimes vnsufferable answeres Of which the Doctors do admonish them that can read these Conferences and pray them to haue regard to the same and thereof referre them to their iudgement Furthermore the Doctors admonish the Ministers that they may or ought to knowe that all Sects of our times doo cast before the eyes of those whom they will abuse the same beadroll of Articles which the Ministers in theyr Resolution haue gathered together to get audience against the Church Catholique and to bring in theyr heresies and errors vnder the name of the glorie of GOD. Whereof they boaste to bee defenders as well as the Ministers And therefore are they not so acceptable in theyr opinions and conclusions that the Ministers can pretend any right to exalt the power and glorie of God by such mingling and confounding of all matters together Moreouer the Doctors shewe that they may with better reason retort against the Ministers the conclusiō which they pretend to inferre of the subtiltie and craft of Sathan which is as they write that Sathan vnder faire shewe of pietie glideth like a Serpent into the Church of GOD to put therein disorder and confusion and in the end to assaile God himselfe The Doctors do pray each one to consider in himselfe whether the Ministers purpose be not such by their deductions and generally by the principall points of theyr doctrine For vnder faire pretext to roote out some abuses and errors against the word of the Lord which they falsly studie to perswade the world to bee in the Church Catholique And vnder the shadow to preach that they seeke the aduancement of the name of the same Lord they goe about to spoile God of all his proprieties and perfection albeit they no more declare it then Sathan told his meaning to the first man Furthermore the Ministers abase the merit and efficacie of the bloud of Iesus Christ and open a doore by their doctrine to all vices and sinnes Be it so the Doctors will not repeate what the Ministers haue held concerning the omnipotencie of God because they shall fill their writings therewithall But so it is that in their goodly resolution although they suite it with seemely words that God cannot after them but so much as they please to receiue of his wisdome and will which they disguise after their owne sence when it is found declared in the scripture Against the goodnesse of God they hold that he is the author and worker of euill and of sinne Against his mercie they teach that he neuer pardoneth nor will pardon a man which shall
conioyned they be sometimes by some occasion seperated and remoued the one from the other as touching their bodies yet for all that do they not leaue to be one flesh and one body by meanes of the societie and matrimoniall familiaritie which is betweene them In like case albeit that Iesus Christ with whom wee are conioyned and vnited by the faith and trust which wee haue in him and his promises bee as touching his bodie resident in heauen wee yet abiding vppon the earth and that by meanes thereof there is great distance and space betweene him and vs as touching his bodie that neuerthelesse hindereth vs not to bee flesh of his flesh and bones of his bones that hee is not our head and wee his members that hee is not our husband and wee his spowse that wee bee not of one selfe same body that wee bee not engrafted into him that wee be not cloathed with him that wee abide not in him as the boughes and buddes in the Vine And there is neither distance of times nor places whatsoeuer it be there is no difference of times which can hinder such a coniunction and that the faithfull eate truly his flesh and his bloud For as the auncient Fathers albeit they were two or three thousand yeares before Iesus Christ dyed yet left they not to communicate in his flesh crucified and to eate the same spirituall meate which we eate and to drinke the same spirituall drinke which wee drinke The faithfull also which are come twelue or fifteene hundred yeares after leaue not what place soeuer they be in to participate as did the Fathers in the same meate and in the same drinke which they haue done And no other difference there is betweene the eating of the Fathers which were before the comming of Iesus Christ and of them that haue followed him but the reason of more or lesse that is to say that there is in the one more ample and expresse declaration of the good will of God towards vs then in the other Whence must be concluded that from the beginning of the world vnto the end there neuer was nor shall be other coniunction betweene our Lord Iesus Christ and his Church then spirituall that is to fay wrought by the spirit of God For euen as there is but one faith in the Fathers and in vs which respecteth alwayes on the one part and the other our Lord Iesus Christ so are we not also otherwise conioyned with him then they haue bene As then it is so that the Fathers haue had no other societie nor communion then spirituall It followeth thereof that we also are not nor can be otherwise then spiritually cōioyned with him Neuerthelesse it is not said that wee and the Fathers are not flesh of his flesh and bones of his bones and that all together doo not partake as well in his humanitie as in his diuinitie But that which wee say is that all this participation which wee haue in him is by the operation vertue of the holy Ghost which thing Christ Iesus in S. Iohn speaking of the meane of this coniunction teacheth clearly when he saith The things which I speake vnto you are spirit and life And S. Paul also when hee saith Our fathers did eate the same spirituall meate and dranke the same spirituall drinke Now when wee speake of this spirituall eating common to vs and to the Fathers it must not therfore be thought that we reiect the holy Supper of the Lord or any way thinke that the same vse of bread and wine is superfluous no more then the vse of the water in Baptisme For our Lord knowing the blockishnesse of our vnderstandings and the infirmitie and weakenesse of our hearts and through the pittie he hath of vs willing to helpe and remedie the same hath not contented to haue left vs the ministerie of his word to assure vs of the participation which we haue in his flesh in his bloud and in all the good things thereon depending but hath also willed to adde therevnto the signes of bread and wine which he hath as seales to his word to seale in our hearts by the vse of the same the faith we haue of the foresaid coniunction by his word So that it sufficed him not to haue contracted a couenant with Abraham by the word and promise which he made vnto him but added moreouer therevnto the signe of Circumcision as a seale for more ample confirmation and assurance of the said couenant To the end then that each one may vnderstand what is the Supper of the Lord and what the Ministers do thereof beleeue and teach it is meete to consider and acknowledge in the same three things First the ordinance of the Lord contained in his word and declared by his Ministerie according to his commaundement by which this holy cerimony hath bene ordained and established in the Church for the edification and entertaining of the members thereof which thing must bee diligently obserued to haue it in that honour and reuerence as appertaineth and not to place it in the ranke of other cerimonies which haue no foundation nor reason to authorise them but the onely will and tradition of men Neuerthelesse heed must be taken that by the institution and ordinance whereof we make mention we vnderstand not a certaine pronuntiation of words or any vertue which is hidden in the same as do the Priests of the Romane Church who by ignorance and superstitious opinion which they haue thinke to haue consecrated and transubstantiated the bread and wine in the Masse by the vertue of fiue words Hoc est enim Corpus meum For this is my body breathed and pronounced ouer the Elements Wherein they are greatly deceiued and abused for as much as the word which is the formall cause of the Sacrament is not a word simply said and vttered but a declaration of the institution and ordinance of God made by the Minister according to his commaundement and a preaching of the death of Iesus Christ and of the fruite thereof by which the hearts of the hearers are lifted vp vnto the contemplation and meditation of his benefite and their faith stirred vp and inflamed in his loue and where the same shall not thus be done it must not be thought that the Elements be Sacraments As S. Augustine in the 80. Tract vpon Saint Iohn in these termes teacheth Whence commeth this vertue to the water that in touching the body it washeth the heart sauing that it is done by the word not because it is pronounced but because it is beleeued This word is the word of the faith which wee preach This saith the Apostle to wit If we confesse with our mouth that Iesus is the Lord and beleeue in our heart that God raised him from the dead wee shall be saued And continuing his speech hee addeth in the end these proper words to wit This word of faith which wee preach is that doubtlesse by which baptisme is consecrated
Christ And sometimes it happeneth that one Doctor in this matter expoundeth an other As one may perceiue it in the conference of two passages the one of S. Augustine alreadie alledged and the other of Tertullian in the booke De Corona militis where hee saith Wee very hardly suffer any thing of our bread and wine to fall vpon the ground And in stead of that which S. Augustine saith to the same purpose he saith as hath before bene recyted we carefully regard that nothing of the body of our Lord fall vpon the ground Now as in diuers passages the auncient Fathers as hath bin declared haue vsed the two foresaid maners speaking of the Supper now by figure now simply and properly so it is sometimes found that in one selfe-same place these two manners of speaking haue beene vsurped in their writings As in a Canon of the Councell of Niece where it is said It was thus concluded of the table of the Lord and of the mysterie which is therevpon that is to say of the worthy body and bloud of Iesus Christ. At the table of the Lord we ought not to abide tyed here below to the bread and wine which bee there proposed but to lift vp our hearts on high by faith and meditate that on this holy table is proposed vnto vs the Lambe of God which taketh vpon him the sinnes of the world which is sacrificed of the Priests and not slaine And in communicating truly with his precious body and bloud we ought to beleeue that these things be signes of our resurrection Whence we may see how the Fathers in one selfe-same place haue spoken properly calling bread and wine the signes and Elements which be presented in the Supper and also by figure naming the same signes the Lambe of God which taketh vppon him the sinnes of the world By that which is said touching the said two manners of speaking they which read the scripture and auncient Authors ought to be admonished carefully to regard that for default of well distinguishing the places where the said speeches are vsurped they do not confound them taking that which ought to be vnderstood by figure as if it were spoken properly and that which is said properly as if it were vnderstood by figure And it behoueth them alwayes to remember in the reading as well of the scripture as of the auncient Fathers what S. Augustine hath written in his booke De doctrina Christiana We must beware saith hee that we take not a figuratiue speech according to the letter For herevnto must that bee referred which the Apostle saieth The letter killeth and the spirit giueth life So that to vnderstand that which is spoken by figure as if it were spoken properly is fleshly wisedome And in the end of the Chapter he hath one memorable sentence namely that it is a miserable bondage of the soule to take the signes for the things signified and not to be able to lift vp the eye of the spirit aboue the corporall creature to draw eternall life To come to the third part of the Supper which is the spirituall and heauenly thing represented proposed there vnto vs as well in the Elements as in the whole action the Ministers say that it is Iesus Christ crucified and offered on the Crosse to God his Father for the whole and perfect expiation and satisfaction of all the sinnes of the world And that to make vs enioy the fruite of this sacrifice and to apply vnto our selues the righteousnesse forgiuenesse of sinnes life the grace of God and all other fauours and blessings which by the same sacrifice haue bene purchased and obtained for vs the word and Sacraments haue bene left and ordained for vs chiefly that of the Supper wherein as in a picture we behold Iesus Christ suffering for vs the paines and sorrowes of death paying our debts cancelling and adnulling the hand-writing which was contrarie to vs bearing vpon him our malediction to free vs from the same and by his obedience reconciling vs to God his Father and appeasing his wrath towards vs. All which things are represented and assured vnto vs in the Supper when with a true faith we present our selues there to celebrate the same The Supper then was not ordained to be a propitiatorie sacrifice as the Doctors do teach and as they falsly beleeue in the Romane Church but to be a Sacrament to the ende to renue and alwayes conserue the memorie which wee ought constantly to retaine of the death and sacrifice of Iesus Christe Now betweene a sacrifice and a Sacrament there is great difference For as much as in a sacrifice we present our oblations vnto God and in a Sacrament God contrariwise offereth and communicateth vnto vs his graces and gifts Also in a sacrifice for sinne there is the death and effusion of the bloud of the Host and sacrifice and not in a Sacrament but the onely perception and applycation of the fruite and effects of the sacrifice In the Supper then Iesus Christe is not againe sacrificed but the fruites of his obedience and merite of his sacrifice are there distributed and receiued by the faithfull Of the reasons aforesaid do the Ministers conclude that it is blasphemy and sacriledge to call the bread of the Masse of a Romish Priest a wholsome host And if for proofe therof they wold alledge the Fathers in whose writings is found that they call sometimes the Supper an oblation and sacrifice The Ministers answere that first it nought appertaineth to the Masse of the Priests between which the Supper there is no agreement And afterwards that what the Fathers haue said they neuer vnderstood it of the propitiatory sacrifice by which remission of sinnes is gotten and obtained And they haue neuer beleeued nor thought that there was any other sacrifice to appease the wrath of God and obtaine reconciliation and agreement betweene him and men then the onely sacrifice of Iesus Christ made by him alone one onely time vpon the Crosse Three things then in briefe doo the Ministers say first that there neither is nor can be other sacrificer of the new Testament then Christ Iesus The reasons are because there is none but he of whom it hath bene said Thou art a Priest for euer after the order of Melchisedeck Also there is none but he to whom may agree and be fitly applyed the conditions and essentiall qualities of a sacrificer and the sacrifice Which are that the Priest be holy innocent without spot seperated from sinners and made higher then the heauens which needed not to offer daily sacrifices first for his owne sinnes and then for the sinnes of the people Also there is none but he which is nor could bee Mediator betweene God and men which could satisfie the diuine iustice which is capable to beare and sustaine the wrath of God which could tame and conquer death which by his death and proper bloud could worke the confirmation of the new Testament and which to
bee briefe could in fauour and contemplation of his merits and dignitie obtaine of God remission of sinnes and the other graces needfull for them which trust in him and instantly desire him Secondly the Ministers say that there is no other sacrifice for sinne but that of Iesus Christ That he is the onely Lambe which beareth the sinnes of the world that there is nothing but his bloud whereby our filthinesse is washed To bee short that God taketh pleasure in no other sacrifice nor oblation and that hee requireth no other burnt sacrifice nor offering for sinne And that therefore Iesus Christe as it is written of him in the rolle of the lawe is come to doo and accomplish the will of God his Father Thirdly they say of the sacrifice of Iesus Christ that it was one onely and once offered by himselfe without that it was euer needfull afterwardes to repeate and reiterate the same considering the perfection and vertue thereof by which sinne is abolished and absolute and eternall sanctification obtained to all the elect as it appeareth in the 9. and 10. of the Hebrewes By meanes whereof no lesse blasphemy it is nor a thing lesse contrarie to the doctrine and meaning of the Apostle to approue the repetition and reiteration of the sacrifice of Iesus Christ then the pluralitie of sacrifices for sinne And if the Doctors would as they wontedly haue to disguise and colour such an abuse shewe forth their distinction betweene the propitiatory and applicatory sacrifice saying that the Priests pretend not in their Masses to sacrifice Iesus Christ for other end then to apply the merite of his death to those for whom they celebrate the same The Ministers answere that in so dooing they should attribute vnto Iesus Christ more then they do because all the fruite of his sacrifice commeth vnto vs by the application thereof As healing commeth not so much by the confection and preparation of the medicine as by the application of the same Furthermore the Ministers would willingly demaund of our Maisters by what meane the benefite of the death of Iesus Christ was applied to the Fathers before his comming seeing that as then they did sing no Masses Well seeth euerie man of any spirite or iudgement that such distinctions are friuolous and onely inuented to obscure the truth and dazell the eyes of the simple and ignorant For Iesus Christ who hath offered the sacrifice is hee himselfe which applyeth the same vnto vs by his spirite his word and his Sacraments To returne then to their former speech and declare why the Fathers haue called the Supper and all the action thereof a sacrifice It behoueth to note that there are many sorts of sacrifices in the Supper As the sacrifice of a contrite heart offered by publike confession of sinnes which there is made After the sacrifice of our body there offered by publike prayer which followeth the said confession Thirdly the sacrifice of praise there offered when they sing Psalmes after the confession and prayer After commeth the preaching of the Gospell which is called a sacrifice Rom. 15. then the confession and prayers ended the Minister presenteth himselfe to the people to preach vnto them the word of God The Almes which is an other kinde of sacrifice was heretofore brought forth in the Supper by the faithfull which would therby testifie not only their remembrance of the graces benefites of God but also their loue desire they had to relieue the necessities of their poore neighbors Besides all these Sacrifices there are yet in the Supper two particular sacrifices wherof mention is made in the writings of the Fathers The bread and the wine which were chosen and taken of the Almes brought thither for the poore and were consecrated that is to say deputed and appointed to the holy and sacred vse of the Supper The other is the memorie of the death and sacrifice of Iesus Christ celebrated and repeated in all the action of the Supper The which for this reason is called a Sacrifice by S. Iohn Chrisostome vpon the Epistle to the Hebrewes when he saith We make not euery day other Sacrifice then that of Iesus Christ. But rather saith he correcting himselfe we make the memorie of that Sacrifice S. Ambrose calleth it the memorie of our redemption To the end that we remembring our Redeemer may obtaine of him increase of his graces in vs. S. Augustine yet proposeth it more clearly vnder a comparison which he bringeth of the dayes of the passion and resurrection of Iesus Christ which he thus applieth when the Feast of Easter approacheth we vse oft times this maner of speech To morrow or within two daies we haue the passion or resurrection of Iesus Christ That cannot properly be vnderstood of the day wherein Iesus Christ suffered death which is long since passed but onely of the memorie of his death which is solempnized and celebrated as this day euery yeare A little after to appropriate his comparison he addeth Iesus Christ hath not he bene one only time offered in himselfe And neuerthelesse in the Sacrament of the Supper not only on Easter day but euery day also is hee offered to the people Also elsewhere The flesh and blood of this Sacrifice were before the comming of Iesus Christ promised by the figures of Sacrifices In the passion of Iesus Christ they were giuen and offered in trueth And after the Ascention of Iesus Christ into Heauen they are celebrated by the Sacrament of remembrance Of these and many other like passages one may deduct that the Fathers haue often called the Supper a Sacrifice by reason that in the same the memory of the Sacrifice of Iesus Christ is renued and celebrated The name of Sacrifice is by the Auncients often also applied to the Almes which the faithfull brought forth in the Supper As by Iustin Martyr in the second Apologie by S. Augustin in the 20. chap. of the 20. book Cotra Faust by S. Ciprian in the booke de Elimosina by S. Iohn Chrysostome Hom. 46. vpon S. Mathew Which thing may also be verified by the Canō of the Masse it selfe where it is said We offer to thy maiestie part of thy gifts benefits which ought to be referred to the Almes of the faithfull which the Minister in the name of the whole Church offered to God They haue sometimes also called the praiers there made Sacrifices As S. Ciprian vpon the Lords Prayer And Eusebius in the 7. of the Ecclesiasticall History Tertullian in the 3. booke against Marcion where alledging that written in Malachy of the cleane offering which ought to be made vnto God from the rysing of the Sunne to the going downe of the same saith that ought to be vnderstood of the Hymnes and praises of God Which S. Ierome expounding the passage aforesaid doth also confirme For conclusion of this matter the Ministers say that all the passages of the bookes of the Fathers wherin mention is
shuld make a long and vnprofitable aboad at Paris not hauing wherewithall to imploy theyr time Considering they were not there but by accident to wit that de Spina was come thither to passe further and make a voyage into Aniou and the other who was Minister of the Church of Orleance was lately come forth of prison where he had beene brought in the Moneth of Iune next precedent vpon a false accusation suborned against him by the enemies of Gods Church which charged him to be author of a pernicious and wicked booke written against the obedience due to Kings and Princes Therefore was it very hurtfull for him to soâ—ournâ— so long a time in a Citie whither hee came against his lyking For these causes they purposed to returne towards my Lord of Neuers to shew vnto him the things aforesaid and tell him that De Sainctes who might haue stayed and ioyned some other with him in the stead of Vigor was departed thence without making it knowne when his returne would be that it was not reason they should stay there being incertaine of that which they had to doo and considering that their Churches had need of them to execute therin their charges and that they desired the same Notwithstanding in the end they found it better to suffer an inconuenience and to abide there vntill my Lord of Neuers departed from Paris as in the end of the Moneth of August he should goe to his owne land called Coâ—lomiers For seeing the Doctors were then absent the Lord of Neuers being departed the Ministers could doo nothing not hauing whom to write vnto nor with whom to conferre These remonstances being liked by the said Lord hee gaue them leaue to depart by writing signed Lodouico de Gonzague and below Varin Secretarie Dated 26. of August wherein were declared the occasions here before touched and remoÌ„strance of the Ministers with promise made by the said Lord to cause the answeres which the Doctors would make to be brought vnto them And that by the meane of Monsieur de Buci S. George who was charged with this businesse Also the Ministers promised to be readie were it to returne to Paris or else to answere from the place where they should be as often as the Doctors should write These things thus done and passed the Ministers returned presently after supposing to haue some speedie newes from the Doctors But they haue attended and yet do attend without that there hath bene any appearance thereof And they vnderstood nothing of that matter sauing that many seuerall writings were afterwardes cryed and solde through the Citie of Paris In the tytles whereof some found meane to enterlace the word Conference to make shewe vnto the world that it was something touching the former disputations And such a subtiltie indeed was not without great profit to the Printers So great desire had men to know the truth of the thing For contentation of whom we haue thought meet to bring to light what was done concerning the same reseruing to another time to publish what the Doctors when they shall do it shall write against it and what the Ministers also will there vnto answere if they can recouer the same In the meane time shall each one be admonished to make profit of that which is here contained And to pray the Father of lights to shead more more the brightnesse of his spirit vpon his Church to the true vnderstanding of his holy word for the restauration and aduancement of the spirituall kingdome of Iesus Christ his sonne our Lord. So be it the 8. of Nouember 1566. FINIS A briefe Table of the titles of the Acts of the Disputation THe Preface containing the occasions of the Dispute following The first day of the Disputation which was Tuesday the 9. of Iuly 1566. touching the assurance one ought to haue of the word of God and of the meane to knowe what is the word of God and to discerne betweene the bookes of the Bible to call the one Canonicall and the other Apocripha The second day being Wednesday the 10. of Iuly touching the same matter with the resolution of the Doctors concluding that it is by the authoritie of the Church that the holy scripture is knowne to be the word of God And the resolution of the Ministers to the contrary That it is the spirite of God which sealeth and imprinteth the assurance thereof in the harts of the elect The third day being Thursday the 11. of Iuly containing the demaunds and answeres vpon the Creede of the Apostles and why it is so called The fourth day being Friday the 12. of Iuly comprehending the resolution of the Doctors concluding that it is by the tradition of the Church that one is assured of the Creed of the Apostles And that of the Ministers tending to this that it is knowne by the conformitie which it hath with the holy scriptures The fift day being Mâ—nday the 15. of Iuly where is the beginning of the disputation of Gods Omnipotencie vnder the couert whereof the Doctors do ground foure points contained in the 63. Page On this Omnipotencie and the points aboue said the disputes following as well by word as by writing were continued The sixt day of the Dispute Tuesday the 16. of Iuly The Ministers answere to the obiections of the Doctors 〈◊〉 Tuesday the 16. of Iuly The reply or obiection of the Doctors against the answere of the Ministers touching the article of Gods omnipotencie on Satterday the 20. of Iuly The answere of the Ministers to the writing of the Doctors sent to them by my Lord the Duke of Neuers the 22. of Iuly about fiue of the clocke in the euening the yeare 1566. The reply of the Doctors to the writing of the Ministers sent to them by my Lord the Duke of Neuers the 25. day of Iuly about 8 of the clocke in the euening the yeare 1566. The Resolution of the Doctors touching the article of the Almightinesse of God in respect of the foure questions proposed by them to the Ministers Which serue to the vnderstanding of the reall presence of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the holy Sacrament The articles proposed by the Doctors for the next and other conferences following according to the order of the said articles The answere of the Ministers to the writing of the Doctors sent to them by my Lord the Duke of Neuers the 28. of Iuly about seuen of the clocke in the euening the yeare 1566. A briefe resolution of all the answeres and discourses which the Ministers haue made vpon the matter of Gods omnipotencie in the conference which they haue had with the Doctors The answeres to the preface of the Doctors questions The answeres to the questions proposed by the Doctors touching the Supper A briefe reply of the Doctors against the last answere of the Ministers sent to them by my Lord the Duke of Niuernois the first of August at 7. of the clocke in the euening Anno.