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A64569 A speech of VVilliam Thomas, esquire Ianurary, 1641 concerning the right of Bishops sitting and voting in Parliament : wherein hee humbly delivereth his opinion that their sitting and voting there is not onely inconvenient and unlawfull Thomas, William, Sir, d. 1653? 1641 (1641) Wing T984; ESTC R17410 8,493 42

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A SPEECH OF VVilliam Thomas Esquire Ianuary 1641. Concerning the right of Bishops sitting and voting in Parliament wherein hee humbly delivereth his opinion that their sitting and voting there is not onely inconvenient and unlawfull but that it is not necessary for the making up of free and full Parliaments nay that they have no right thereto for such reasons as he declareth Parliaments and Statutes therein made being of force and no way nulls notwithstanding their absence whether voluntary or inforced and that they have not right to their temporalties whereby they challenge their right to sit and vote in the House of Lords Lay Peeres And therefore under correction he doth thinke that the severall Petitions of the City of London and others as unto that were fairly and justly offered And as they ought of due right to be admitted and received so to be speedily debated and voted as he humbly conceiveth Printed at London by Th. Harper 1641. A SPEECH OF VVilliam Thomas Esquire I Have lately declared my opinion herein in part as to the inconvenience I have also expressed that I was of the same minde as to the unlawfulnesse of the sitting of Bishops in the house of Lords which I did but briefly touch therefore desire I may a little further enlarge my selfe there being a necessity thereof as shall appeare for that in the delivery of that which I am now to speake of it cannot bee avoided I say now that I doe likewise conceive that they have no right to sit there and in my render and proofe hereof I will bee as briefe as I may or the matter permit avoyding repetition of any thing formerly spoken for I will not Actum agere or Cramben bis coctam ponere it hath alwayes beene ill relished and cannot at this time but be most distastfull for as with Iuvenal in his Satyres Nam quecunque sedens modo legerat haec eadem stans Proferet atque eadem cantabit versibus lisdem Occidit miseros Crambe repetita magistros Answerable to the Greeke Proverbe {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} But to the point of the right of Bishops to sit there which I deny alledging it to be a meere usurpation and a possession unduly gained and wrongfully held yet such as received interruption and as King Iames in his premonition speaketh of the Bishop of Rome and his usurped authority so may I of their sitting in Parliament It is not enough saith he to say as Parsons doth in his answer to the Lord Cooke that farre more Kings of this Country have given many more examples of acknowledging or not resisting some perhaps lacking the occasion and some the ability of resisting for even by the Civill Law in the case of a violent intrusion and long wrongfull possession it is enough if it bee proved that there hath beene made lawfull interruption upon convenient occasion That there hath beene interruption plainly appeareth for that divers Lawes have beene made in their absence and yet remaine in force as wee may see in Iewel fol. 644. Fox Monuments 421. Lamberts Perambulation of Kent pag. 221. and others declaring severall Parliaments to be held excluso Clero the Clergy wholly exempted and left out as in Ed. 1. Ed. 2. Ed. 3. and other Kings reignes Nay they came not into the house many years after the beginning of Parliaments the first time they were there present being in the reign of Henry the second as Mathew Paris 185. so that they were not in the reigne of Henry the first or King Stephen Nor when they came to bee members if such I may call them or that they had votes were they to vote in all things as the twelve Bishops have passed verdict in their petitionary if I may not rather call it proditory Protestation which some of them have wisely retracted in regard whereof and their former worthy endeavours and expressions in defence of Protestant Religion I should be most ready to intreat for But as we cannot deny but must thankfully acknowledge that the services formerly done by them were truly honourable and worthy great reward but not worthy to countervaile with a following wickednesse Reward is proper to well doing punishment to evill doing which must not be confounded no more then good and evill are to bee mingled therefore hath beene determined in all wisdomes that no man because hee hath done well before should have his present evill spared but rather so much the more punished as having shewed hee knew how to be good would against his knowledge bee naught The fact then nakedly without passion or partiality viewed without question they are culpable And what Seneca saith of Alexander killing Calisthenes so may I of the Bishops Hoc est Alexand crimen c. This is the eternall crime of Alexander which no vertue nor felicity of his in war shall ever bee able to redeem for as often as any man shall say he slew many thousand Persians it shall be replied he did so and he slew Calisthenes when it shall be said he wan all as farre as the very Ocean thereon he adventured with unusuall Navies and extended his empire from a corner of Thrace to the utmost bounds of the Orient It shall be said withall but he killed Calisthenes let him have outgone all the ancient examples o Captaines and Kings none of all his acts make so much to his glory as Calisthenes to his reproach So after the enumeration of their several demerits from the Weale-publicke it will be answered Vulner averunt Parliamentum I reade in Apollodorus de origine Deorum that when Dionysius had cast Licurgus into a fury or frenzy he in this distemper taking a hatchet in his hand whilst he had thought hee had smitten downe the branch of a vine with the same hand and hatchet slew his owne son So I feare these Prelates of late have given to their birth and being a deep wound if not mortall by offering to cut downe a branch a maine branch priviledge of Parliaments Sir Walter Rauleigh in his Preface to his History of the World speaking of some worldly politicke Princes of this and other Kingdomes concludeth that they did bring those things to passe for their enemies and seen an effect so directly contrary to all their owne counsells as the one could never have hoped for themselves and the other never have succeeded if no such opposition had ever beene God hath said it and performed it ever Perdam sapientiam sapientum I will destroy the wisdome of the wise Quos vult Deus perdere hos dementat the application is easily made shall I goe a little further in his expression To hold the time we have saith he wee hold all things lawfull and either we hope to hold them for ever or at least we hope that there is nothing after them to be hoped for But humbly craving pardon for this digression I proceed forward and will returne where I left I say they were not to