such a course and what hopes He had of Money Men Arms Fortified Places Shipping Council and Military Offices sufficient for such an Enterprize against the Parliament that had Men and Money as much at Command as the City of London and other Corporation Towns were able to furnish which was more than they needed And for the Men they should set forth for Soldiers they were almost all of them spightfully bent against the King and his whole Party whom they took to be either Papists or Flatterers of the King or that had design'd to raise their Fortunes by the Plunder of the City and other Corporation Towns and though I believe not that they were more valiant than other Men nor that they had so much Experience in the War as to be accounted good Soldiers yet they had that in them which in time of Battle is more conducing to Victory than Valor and Experience both together and that was Spight And for Arms they had in their hands the chief Magazines the Tower of London and Kingston upon Hull besides most of the Powder and Shot that lay in several Towns for the use of the Trained Bands Fortified places there were not many then in England and most of them in the hands of the Parliament The King's Fleet was wholly in their Command under the Earl of Warwick Counsellors they needed no more than such as were of their own Body so that the King was every way inferior to them except it were perhaps in Officers A. I cannot compare their chief Officers for the Parliament The Earl of Essex after the Parliament had Voted the War was made General of all their Forces both in England and Ireland from whom all other Commanders were to receive their Commissions B. What moved them to make the Earl of Essex General And for what cause was the Earl of Essex so displeased with the King as to accept that Office A. I do not certainly know what to answer to either of those Questions but the Earl of Essex had been in the Wars abroad and wanted neither Experience Judgment nor Courage to perform such an undertaking and besides that you have heard I believe how great a Darling of the People his Father had been before him and what Honour he gad gotten by the success of his Enterprize upon Cales and in some other Military Actions To which I may add That this Earl himself was not held by the People to be so great a Favourite at Court as that they might not trust him with their Army against the King and by this you may perhaps conjecture the cause for which the Parliament made choice of him for General B. But why did they think him discontented with the Court A. I know not that nor indeed that he was so he came to Court as other Noblemen did when occasion was to wait upon the King but had no Office till a little before this time to oblige him to be there continually but I believe verily that the unfortunateness of his Marriage had so discountenanced his Conversation with Ladies that the Court could not be his proper Element unless he had had some extraordinary favour there to balance that calamity For particular discontent from the King or intention of revenge for any supposed disgrace I think he had none nor that he was any ways addicted to Presbyterian Doctrines or other Phanatic Tenets in Church or State saving only that he was carried away with the stream in a manner of the whole Nation to think that England was not an absolute but a mixt Monarchy not considering that the Supreme Power must always be absolute whether it be in the King or in the Parliament B. Who was General of the King's Army A. None yet but Himself nor indeed had He yet any Army but there coming to him at that time two Nephews the Princes Rupert and Maurice He put the Command of His Horse into the hands of Prince Rupert a man than whom no man living has a better courage nor was more active and diligent in prosecuting his Commission and though but a young man then was not without experience in the conducting of Soldiers as having been an Actor in part of his Father's Wars in Germany B. But how could the King find Money to pay such an Army as was necessary for Him against the Parliament A. Neither the King nor Parliament had much Money at that time in their own hands but were fain to rely upon the Benevolence of those that took their parts wherein I confess the Parliament had a mighty great advantage Those that helped the King in that kind were only Lords and Gentlemen which not approving the proceedings of the Parliament were willing to undertake the payment every one of a certain number of Horse which cannot be thought any very great assistance the persons that paid them being so few for other Moneys that the King then had I have not heard of any but what he borrow'd upon Jewels in the Low-Countries whereas the Parliament had a very plentiful Contribution not only from London but generally from their Faction in all other places of England upon certain Propositions published by the Lords and Commons in June 1642. at which time they had newly Voted That the King intended to make War upon them for bringing in of Money or Plate to maintain Horse and Horse-men and to buy Arms for the preservation of the public Peace and for the defence of the King and both Houses of Parliament for the Repaying of which Money and Plate they were to have the Public Faith B. What Public Faith is there when there is no Public What is it that can be call'd Public in a Civil War without the King A. The truth is the Security was nothing worth but serv'd well enough to gull those seditious Blockheads that were more fond of change than either of their peace or profit having by this means gotten Contributions from those that were the well-affected to their Cause they made use of it afterwards to force the like Contribution from others for in November following they made an Ordinance for Assessing also of those that had not contributed then or had contributed but not proportionably to their Estates And yet this was contrary to what the Parliament promised and declared in the Propositions themselves for they declared in the first Proposition That no man's Affection should be measured by the proportion of his Offer so that he expressed his good will to the Service in any proportion whatsoever Besides this in the beginning of March following they made an Ordinance to Levy weekly a great Sum of Money upon every County City Town Place and Person of any Estate almost in England which weekly Sum as may appear by the Ordinance it self printed and published in March 1642 by Order of both Houses comes to almost 33000 l. and consequently to above 1700000 l. for the year They had besides all this the profits of the King's Lands
BEHEMOTH OR AN EPITOME OF THE Civil Wars OF ENGLAND From 1640 to 1660. By THOMAS HOBS of Malmsbury LONDON Printed ANNO DOM. 1679 THE HISTORY OF THE Civil Wars OF ENGLAND A. IF in time as in place there were Degrees of high and low I verily believe that the highest of time would be that which passeth betwixt 1640 and 1660. For he that thence as from the Divils Mountain should have looked upon the World and observed the Actions of Men especially in England might have had a prospect of all kinds of Injustice and of all kinds of Folly that the world could afford and how they were produced by their Hypocrisy and self-conceit whereof the one is double Iniquity and the other double Folly B. I should be glad to behold the Prospect You that have lived in that time and in that part of your Age wherein Men used to see best into good and evil I pray you set â—â—e that could not see so well upon the same Mountain by the relation of the actions you then saw and of their causes Pretentions Justice Order Artifice and Events A. In the year 1640. The Government of England was Monarchical and the King that reigned Charles the I. of that Name holding the Soveraignty by Right of a Discent continued above 600 years and from a much longer Discent King of Sotland and from the Time of his Ancestors Henry the 2. King of Ireland a man that wanted no Vertue either of Body or Mind nor endeavour'd any thing more than to discharge his duty towards his God in the well-governing of his Subjects B. How could he than miscarry having in every County so many Train'd-bands as would put together have made an Army of 60000 Men and divers Magazines of Ammunition in places fortified If those Souldiers had been as they and all others of his Subjects ought to have been at his Majesties command The Peace and Happiness of the three Kingdoms had continued as it was left by K. James but the people were corrupted generally and Disobedient Persons esteemed the best Patriots B. But sure there were Men enough besides those that were ill-affected to have made an Army sufficient for to have kept the People from uniting into a Body able to oppose him A. Truly if the King had had Money I think he might have had Souldiers enough in England for there were very few of the common People that cared much for either of the Causes but would have taken any side for pay and plunder But the Kings Treasure was very low and his Enemies that pretended the Peoples ease from Taxes and other specious things had the Command of the Purses of the City of London and of most Cities and Corporate Towns in England and of many particular Persons besides B. But how comes the People to be so corrupted and what kind of People were they that did so seduce them A. The Seducers were of divers sorts One sort were Ministers Ministers as they called themselves of Christ and sometimes in their Sermons to the People Gods Embassadors pretending to have a Right from God to govern every one his Parish and their Assembly the whole Nation Secondly There were a very great number though not comparable to the other which notwithstanding that the Popes Power in England both Temporal and Ecclesiastical had been by Act of Parliament abolished did still retain a belief that we ought to be governed by the Pope whom they pretended to be the Vicar of Christ and in the Right of Christ to be the Governour of all Christian People and these were known by the Name of PAPISTS as the Ministers I mentioned before were commonly called PRESBYTERIANS Thirdly There were not a few who in the beginning of the Troubles were not discovered but shortly after declared themselves for a Liberty in Religion and those of different Opinions one from another Some of them because they would have all Congregations free and independant upon one another were called INDEPENDANTS others that held Baptism to Infants and such as understood not into what they are Baptized to be ineffectual were called therefore ANABAPTISTS Others that held that Christs Kingdom was at this time to begin upon Earth were called FIFTH-MONARCHY-MEN besides divers other Sects as QUAKERS ADAMITES c. whose names and peculiar Doctrines I do not very well remember and these were the Enemies which arose against his Majesty from the private Interpretation of the Scripture exposed to every Mans scanning in his Mother Tongue Fourthly There were an exceeding great number of Men of the greater sort that had been so educated as that in their youth having read the Books written by famous men of the Ancient Grecian and Roman Commonwealths concerning their Policy and great Actions in which Book the Popular Government was extol'd by that glorious Name of Liberty and Monarchy disgraced by the Name of Tyranny they became thereby in love with their form of Government And out of these men were chosen the greatest part of the HOUSE OF COMMONS Or if they were not the greatest part yet by advantage of their Eloquence were always able to sway the rest Fifthly The City of London and other great Towns of Trade having in admiration the prosperity of the low Countries after they had revolted from their Monarch the King of Spain were inclined to think that the like change of Government here would to them produce the like prosperity Sixthly There were a very great Number that had either wasted their fortunes or thought them too mean for the good part they thought were in themselves and more there were that had able bodies and saw no means how honestly to get their Bread These longed for a War and hoped to maintain themselves hereafter by the lucky chusing of a Party to side with and consequently did for the most part serve under them that had greatest plenty of Money Lastly The People in general were so ignorant of their Duties as that not one perhaps of 1000. knew what Right any man had to command him or what necessity there was of King or Commonwealth for which he was to part with his Money against his will but thought himself to be so much Master of whatsoever he possest that it could not be taken from him upon any pretence of Common Safety without his own consent King they thought was but a Title of the highest honour which Gentlemen Knight Baron Earl Duke were but steps to ascend to with the help of Riches and had no Rule of Equity but Precedents and Custom and he was thought wisest and fittest to be chosen for a Parliament who was worst averse to the granting of Subsidies or other publick Payments B. In such a Constitution of People methinks the King is already outed of his Government so as they need not have taken Arms for it For I cannot imagine how the King should come by any means to resist them A. There was indeed very great difficulty in the business but of
time they had demanded some of them in a Petition which they called a Petition of Right which nevertheless the King had granted them in a former Parliament though he deprived himself thereby not only of the Power to Levy Money without their consent but also of his ordinary Revenue by Custom of Tonnage and Poundage and of the Liberty to put into Custody such men as he thought likely to disturb the Peace and raise Sedition in the Kingdom As for the men that did this 't is enough to say they were the Members of the last Parliament and of some other Parliaments in the beginning of the Reign of King Charles I. and the end of the Reign of King James To name them all is not necessary farther then the Story shall require most of them were Members of the House of Commons some few also of the Lords But all such as had a great Opinion of their sufficiency in Politicks which they thought was not sufficiently taken notice of by the King B. How could the Parliament when the King had a great Navy and a great number of Train'd Souldiers and all the Magazines of Ammunition in his power be able to begin the War A. The King had these things in his Right but that signifies little when they had the Custody of the Navy and Magazines and with them all the Trained Souldiers and in a manner all the Subjects were by the Preaching of Presbyterian Ministers and the seditious whispering of false and ignorant Politians made his Enemies and when the King could have no Money but what the Parliament should give him which you may be sure should not be enough to maintain his Legal Power which they intended to take from him And yet I think they would never have adventured into the Field but for that unlucky business of imposing upon the Scots who were all Presbyterians our Book of Common Prayer for I believe the English would never have taken well that the Parliament should make War upon the King upon any provocation unless it were in their own defence in case the King should first make War upon them and therefore it behoved them to provoke the King that he might do something that might look like Hostility It hapned in the year 1637. that the King by advice as it is thought of the Arch-bishop of Canterbury sent down a Book of Common Prayer into Scotland not differing in substance from ours nor much in words besides the putting of the word Presbyter for that of Minister commanding it to be used for Conformity to this Kingdom by the Ministers there for an ordinary of Divine Service this being read in the Church at Edinburgh caused such a Tumult there that he that read it had much adoe to escape with his life and gave occasion to the greatest part of the Nobility and others to enter by their own Authority into a Covenant amongst themselves to put down Episcopacy without consulting the King which they presently did animated thereto by their own Confidence or by assurance from some of the Democratical English-men that in former Parliaments had been the greatest opposers of the King's Interest that the King would not be able to raise an Army to chastise them without calling a Parliament which would be sure to favour them for the thing which those Democraticals chiefly then aimed at was to force the King to call a Parliament which he had not done of ten years before as having found no help but hindrance to his designs in the Parliaments he had formerly called Howsoever contrary to their expectation by the help of his better affected Subjects of the Nobility and Gentry he made a shift to raise a sufficient Army to have reduced the Scots to their former obedience if it had proceeded to Battle And with this Army he marched himself into Scotland where the Scotch Army was also brought into the Field against him as if they meant to fight but then the Scotch sent to the King for leave to treat by Commissioners on both sides and the King willing to avoid the destruction of his own Subjects condescended to it the issue was peace and the King thereupon went to Edinburgh and passed an Act of Parliament there to their Satisfaction B. Did he not then confirm Episcopacy A. No but yeilded to the abolishing of it but by the means the English were crossed in their hope of a Parliament but the Democraticals formerly opposers of the King's Interest ceased not to endeavour still to put the two Nations into a War to the end the King might buy the Parliaments help at no luss a price than Soveraignty it self B. But what was the Cause that the Gentry and Nobility of Scotland were so averse from Episcopacy For I can hardly believe that their Consciences were extraordinarily tender nor that there were so very great Divines as to know what was the true Church Discipline established by our Saviour and his Apostles nor yet so much in love with their Ministers as to be over-ruled by them in the Government either Ecclesiastical or Civil for in their lives they were just as other men are Pursuers of their own Interests and Preferments wherein they were not more opposed by the Bishops than by their Presbyterian Ministers A. Truly I do not know I cannot enter into other mens thoughts farther than I am led by the consideration of Human Nature in general Bet upon this consideration I see First That men of Ancient Wealth and Nobility are not apt so to brook that poor Sâ—hollars should as they must when they are made Bishops be their Fellows Secondly That from the emulation of Glory between the Nations they be willing to see their Nation afflicted with Civil War and might hope by aiding the Rebels here to acquire some Power over the English at least so far as to establish here the Presbyterian Discipline which was also one of the points they afterwards openly demanded Lastly They might hope for in the War some great sum of Money as a reward of their assistance bendes great Booty which they afterwards obtained but whatsoever was the cause of their hatred to Bishops the pulling them down was not all they-timed at if it had now that Episcopacy was abolished by Act of Parliament they would have rested satisfied which they did not for after the King was returned to London the English Presbyterians and Democraticals by whose favour they had put down Bishops in Scotland thought it reason to have the assistance of the Scotch for the pulling down the Bishops in England and in order thereunto they might perhaps deal with the Scots secretly to rest unsatisfied with that pacification which they were before contented with howsoever it was not long after the King was returned to London they sent up to some of their friends at Court a certain Paper containing as they apprehended the Articles of the said pacification a false and scandalous Paper which was by the King's Command burnt as I
and that all persons cited by either House of Parliament may appear and abide the Censure of Parliament XIV That the General Pardon offered by his Majesty be granted with such Exceptions as shall be advised by both Houses of Parliament B. What a spightful Article is this All the rest proceeded from Ambition which many times well-natur'd men are subject to but this proceeded from an inhumane and devilish cruelly A. XV. That the Forts and Castles be put under the Command of such Persons as with the Approbation of the Parliament the King shall appoint XVI That the extraordinary Guards about the King be discharged and for the future none raised but according to the Law in case of actual Rebellion or Invasion B. Methinks these very Propositions sent to the King are an actual Rebellion A. XVII That his Majesty enter into a more strict Alliance with the United Provinces and other Neighbour Protestant Princes and States XVIII That his Majesty be pleased by Act of Parliament to clear the Lord Kimbolton and the Five Members of the House of Commons in such manner as that future Parliaments may be secur'd from the consequence of evil Precedent XIX That his Majesty be pleased to pass a Bill for restraining Peers made hereafter from sitting or voting in Parliament unless they be admitted with consent of both Houses of Parliament These Propositions granted they promise to apply themselves to regulate his Majesties Revenue to his best advantage and to settle it to the support of his Royal Dignity in Honour and Plenty and also to put the Town of Hull into such hands as his Majesty shall appoint with consent of Parliament B. Is not that to put it into such hands as His Majesty shall appoint by the consent of the Petitioners which is no more than to keep it in their hands as it is Did they want or think the King wanted common sense so as not to perceive that their promise herein was worth nothing A. After the sending of these Propositions to the King and His Majesties refusal to grant them they began on both sides to prepare for War the King raising a Guard for his Person in York-shire and the Parliament thereupon having Voted That the King intended to make War upon his Parliament gave Order for the Mustering and Exercising the People in Arms and published Propositions to Invite and Encourage them to bring in either ready Money or â—late or to promise under their hands to maintain certain numbers of Horse Horsemen and Arms for the Defence of the King and Parliament meaning by King as they had formerly declar'd not his Person but his Laws promising to repay their Money with Interest of Eight Pound in the Hundred and the Value of their Plate with Twelve Pence the Ounce for the Fashion On the other side the King came to Nottingham and there did set up his Standard Royal and sent out Commissioners of Array to call those to him which by the ancient Laws of England were bound to serve in the Wars Upon this occasion there passed divers Declarations between the King and Parliament concerning the Legality of this Array which are too long to tell you at this time B. Nor do I desire to hear any Mooting about this Question for I think that general Law of Salus Populi and the Right of defending himself against those that had taken from him the Sovereign Power are sufficient to make Legal whatsoever he should do in order to the recovery of his Kingdom or the punishing of the Rebels A. In the mean time the Parliament raised an Army and made the Earl of Essex General thereof by which Act they declar'd what they meant formerly when they Petition'd the King for a Guard to be Commanded by the said Earl of Essex And now the King sends out his Proclamations forbidding Obedience to the Orders of the Parliament concerning the Militia and the Parliament send out Orders against the Executions of the Commissions of Array hitherto though it were a War before yet there was no Blood shed they shot at one another nothing but Paper B. I understand now how the Parliament destroy'd the Peace of the Kingdom and how easily by the help of Seditious Presbyterian Ministers and of ambitious ignorant Orators they reduced the Government into Anarchy but I believe it will be a harder task for them to bring in Peace again and settle the Government either in themselves or in any other Governor or form of Government for granting that they obtain the Victory in this War they must be beholding for it to the Valor good Conduct or Felicity of those to whom they give the Command of their Armies especially to the General whose good success will without doubt bring with it the love and admiration of the Soldiers so that it will be in his power either to take the Government upon himself or to place it where himself thinks good In which Case if he take it not to himself he will be thought a Fool and if he do he shall be sure to have the Envy of his subordinate Commanders who will look for a share either in the present Government or in the Succession to it for they will say Has he obtain'd this Power by his own without our Danger Valor and Council And must we be his Slaves whom we have thus rais'd Or is not there as much Justice on our side against him as was on his side against the King A. They will and did insomuch that the reason why Cromwel after he had gotten into his own hands the absolute Power of England Scotland and Ireland by the Name of Protector did never dare to take upon him the Title of King nor was ever able to settle it upon his Children his Officers would not suffer it as pretending after his death to succeed him nor would the Army consent to it because he had ever declared to them against the Government of a Single Person B. But to return to the King What Means had he to pay What Provision had he to Arm nay Means to Levy an Army able to resist the Army of the Parliament maintained by the great Purse of the City of London and Contributions of almost all the Towns Corporate in England and furnished with Arms as fully as they could require A. 'T is true the King had great disadvantages and yet by little and little he got a considerable Army with which he so prospered as to grow stronger every day and the Parliament weaker till they had gotten the Scots with an Army of 21000 Men to come into England to their assistance but to enter into the particular Narrative of what was done in the War I have not now time B. Well then we will talk of that at next meeting B. VVE left at the Preparations on both sides for War which when I considered by my self I was mightily puzled to find out what possibility there was for the King to equal the Parliament in
like Enemies but offered not to fight whereby the Rump was put out of possession of the House and the Officers continued their meeting as before at Wallingford house there they chose from among themselves with some few of the City a Committee which they called The Committee of Safety whereof the chief were Lambert and Vane who with the advice of a General Council of Officers had Power to call Delinquents to Tryal to suppress Rebellions to treat with Foreign States c. You see now the Rump cut off and the Supreme Power which is charged with Salus Populi transferred to a Council of Officers and yet Lambert hopes for it at the end But one of their Limitations was That they should within six Weeks present to the Army a new Model of the Government If they had done so do you think they would have preser'd Lambert or any other to the Supreme Authority rather than themselves B. I think not When the Rump had put into Commission among a few others for the Government of the Army that is for the Government of the three Nations General Monk already Commander in chief of the Army in Scotland and that had done much greater things in this War than Lambert how durst they leave him out of this Committee of Safety or how could Lambert think that General Monk would forgive it and not endeavour to fasten the Rump again A. They thought not of him his Gallantry had been shown on remote Stages Ireland and Scotland his Ambition had not appeared here in their Contention for the Government but he had complied both with Richard and the Rump After General Monk had signified by Letter his dislike of the proceedings of Lambert and his Fellows they were much surpriz'd and began to think him more considerable than they had done but it was too late B. Why was his Army not too small for so great an Enterprize A. The General knew very well his own and their Forces both what they were then and how they were to be augmented and what generally City and Country wished for which was the Restitution of the King which to bring about there needed no more but to come with his Army though not very great to London to the doing whereof there was no obstacle but the Army with Lambert What could he do in this Case If he had declar'd presently for the King or for a free Parliament all the Armies in England would have joyned against him and assuming the Title of a Parliament would have furnished themselves with Money Gâ—neral Monk after he had thus quarrelled by his Letter with the Council of Officers he secur'd first those Officers of his own Army which were Anabaptists and therefore not to be trusted and put others into their places then drawing his Forces together march'd to Berwick Being there he indicted a Convention of the Scots of whom he desired That they would take order for the security of the Nation in his absence and raise some maintenance for his Army in their march The Convention promis'd for the security of the Nation their best endeavour and rais'd him a sum of money not great but enough for his purpose excusing themselves upon their present wants On the other side the Committee of Safety with the greatest and best part of their Army sent Lambert to oppose him but at the same time by divers Messages and Mediators urged him to a Treaty which he consented to and sent 3 Officers to London to treat with as many of theirs These six suddenly concluded without power from the General upon these Articles That the King be excluded a free State setled the Ministry and Universities encouraged with divers which the General liked not and imprisoned one of his Commissioners for exceeding his Commission whereupon another Treaty was agreed on of five to five But whilst these Treaties were in hand Haslerig a Member of the Rump seized on Portsmouth and the Soldiers sent by the Committee of Safety to reduce it instead of that entred into the Town and joyned with Haslerig Secondly the City renewed their Tumults for a free Parliament Thirdly the Lord Fair fax a Member also of the Rump and greatly favoured in York-shire was raising Forces there behind Lambert who being now between two Armies his Enemies would gladly have fought the General Fourthly there came news that Devon-shire and Cornwal were listing of Soldiers Lastly Lambert's Army wanting Money and sure they should not be furnished from the Council of Officers which had neither Authority nor Strength to levy money grew discontented and for their Free-Quarter were odious to the Northern Countries B. I wonder why the Scots were so ready to furnish General Monk with money for they were no Friends to the Rump A. I know not but I believe the Scots would have parted with a greater Sum rather than the English should not have gone together by the Ears among themselves The Council of Officers being now beset with so many Enemies produced speedily their Model of Government which was to have a free Parliament which should meet December 15 but with such Qualifications of no King no House of Lords as made the City more angry than before To send Soldiers into the West to suppress those that were rising there they durst not for fear of the City nor could they raise any other for want of money there remained nothing but to break and quitting Wallingford-house to shift for themselves This coming to the knowledge of their Army in the North they deserted Lambert and the Rumpers December 26 re-possessed the House B. Seeing the Rump was now reseated the business pretended by General Monk for his marching to London was at an end A. The Rump though seated was not well setled but in the midst of so many Tumults for a free Parliament had as much need of the General 's coming up now as before He therefore sent them word that because he thought them not yet secure enough he would come up to London with his Army which they not only accepted of but entreated him so to do and voted him for his service 1000 l. a year The General marching towards London the Country every where Petition'd him for a free Parliament The Rump to make room in London for his Army dislodg'd their own The General for all that had not let fall a word in all this time that could be taken for a Declaration of his Final Design B. How did the Rump revenge themselves on Lambert A. They never troubled him nor do I know any cause of their so gentle dealing with him But certainly Lambert was the ablest of any Officer they had to do them service when they should have means and need to imploy him After the General was come to London the Rump sent to the City for their part of a Tax of 100000 l. a month for six months according to an Act which the Rump had made formerly before their Disseisin by the Committee of
his first coming to the Crown of England did endeavour it but could not prevail But for all that I believe the Scotch have now as many priviledges in England as any Nation had in Rome of those which were so as you say made Romans for they are all Naturalized and have right to buy Land in England to them and their Heirs B. 'T is true of them that were born in Scotland after the time that King James was in possession of the Kingdom of England A. There be very few now that were born before But why have they a better right that were born after than they that were born before B. Because they were born Subjects to the King of England and the rest not A. Were not the rest born Subjects to King James and was not he King of England B. Yes but not then A I understand not the subtilty of the distinction but upon what Law is that distinction grounded is there any Statute to that purpose B. I cannot tell I think not but it is grounded upon Equity A. I see little equity in this that those Nations that are bound to equal obedience to the same King should not have equal Priviledges and now seeing there be so very few born before King Jame's coming in what greater priviledges had those ingrafted Romans by their Naturalization in the State of Rome or in the State of England the English themselves more than the Scotch D. Those Romans when any of them were in Rome had their voice in the making of Laws A. And the Scotch have their Parliaments wherein their assent is required to the Law there made which is as good Have not many of the Provinces of France their several Parliaments and several Constitutions yet they are all equally Natural Subjects to the King of France And therefore for my part I think they were mistaken both English and Scotch in calling one another Foreigners Howsoever that be the King had a very sufficient Army wherewith he marched towards Scotland and by that time he was come to York the Scots Army was drawn up to the Fronteers and ready to march into England which also they presently did giving out all the way that their march should be without damage to the Countrey and that their Errand was onely to deliver a Petition to the King for the redress of many pretended Injuries they had received from such of the Court whose counsel the King most followed so they passed through Northumberland quietly till they came to a Ford in the River of Tine a little above Newcastle where they found some little opposition from a party of the King's Army sent thither to stop them whom the Scots easily mastered and as soon as they were over seized on Newcastle and coming farther on upon the City of Duresme and sent to the King to desire a Treaty which was granted and the Commissioners on both sides met at Rippon the conclusion was that all should be referred to the Parliament which the King should call to meet at Westminster the third of November following in the same year 1640. And thereupon the King returned to London B. So the Armies were disbanded A. No The Scotch Army was to be defrayed by the Counties of Northumberland and Duresme and the King was to pay his own till the disbanding of both should be agreed upon in Parliament B. So in effect both the Armies were maintained at the King's Charge and the whole Controversie to be desided by a Parliament almost wholly Presbyterian and as Partial to the Scotch as themselves could have wished A. And yet for all this they durst not presently make War upon the King there was so much yet left of Reverence to him in the Hearts of People as to have made them odious if they had declared what they intended they must have some colour or other to make it be believed that the King made War first upon the Parliament And besides they had not yet sufficiently disgraced him in Sermons and Pamphlets nor removed from about him those they thought could best counsel him therefore they resolved to proceed with him like skilful hunters First to single him out by men disposed in all parts to drive him into the open field and then in case he should not seem to turn head to call that making a War against the Parliament And first They called in question such as had either Preached or written in defence of those Rights which belonging to the Crown they meant to usurp and take from the King to themselves whereupon some few Writers and Preachers were Imprisoned or forced to fly The King not protecting these they proceeded to call in question some of the King 's own Actions in his Ministers whereof they Imprison'd some and some went beyond Sea and whereas certain persons having endeavoured by Books and Sermons to raise Sedition and committed other Crimes of high Nature had therefore been censured by the Kings Council in the Star-Chamber and Imprisoned the Parliament by their own Authority to try it seems how the King and the people would take it for their Persons were inconsiderable ordered their setting at Liberty which was accordingly done with great Applause of the People that flocked about them in London in manner of a Triumph This being done without resistance the Kings Right to Ship-money B. Ship-money what 's that A. The Kings of England for the defence of the Sea had power to Tax all the Counties of England whether they were Maritine or not for the Building and Furnishing of Ships which Tax the King had then lately found cause to impose and the Parliament exclaimed against it as an oppression And one of their Members that had been Taxed but 20 Shillings mark the Oppression a Parliament-man of 500 l. a Year Land Taxed at 20 Shillings they were forced to bring it to a Tryal at Law he refusing payment and he was cast again When all the Judges of Westminster were demanded their Opinions concerning the legality of it of Twelve that there are it was judged Legal by Ten for which though they were not punished yet they were affrighted by the Parliament B. What did the Parliament mean when they did exclaim against it as illegal Did they mean it was against Statute Law or against the Judgments of Lawyers given heretofore which are commonly called Reports or did they mean it was against Equity which I take to be the same with the Law of Nature A. It is a hard matter or rather impossible to know what other men mean especially if they be crafty but sure I am Equity was not their ground for their pretence of Immunity from Contributing to the King but at their own pleasure for when they have laid the Burthen of defending the whole Kingdom and governing it upon any person whatsoever there is little Equity he should depend on others for the means of performing it or if he do they are his Soveraign not he theirs and as for