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A91389 A speech delivered at a conference with the Lords. January, XXV. MDCXLI. By occasion of the petitions from the Citie of London, and the counties of Middlesex, Essex, and Hertford. By Iohn Pym, Esquire. Published by order of the House of Commons. Whereto are annexed two orders of the said House. The one, containing the thankes of the House, given to those of Hertfordshire. The other, for punishing of those who printed a false copie of that petition, and other libellous pamphlets. Pym, John, 1584-1643.; England and Wales. Parliament. House of Commons. 1642 (1642) Wing P4278; Thomason E200_21; Thomason E200_22; Thomason E200_23; ESTC R14086 4,009 11

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A SPEECH DELIVERED AT A CONFERENCE with the LORDS January XXV MDCXLI By occasion of the PETITIONS from the Citie of LONDON and the Counties of Middlesex Essex and Hertford By IOHN PYM Esquire Published by Order of the HOUSE of COMMONS WHERETO Are annexed two ORDERS of the said HOUSE THE ONE Containing the Thankes of the HOVSE given to those of HERTFORDSHIRE THE OTHER For punishing of those who printed a false Copie of that PETITION and other libellous Pamphlets Printed at LONDON by R. Oulton and G. Dexter for John Rothwell and are to be sold at the Signe of the Sun in Pauls Church-yard 1641. JANVARY 25. 1641. At a Conference betwixt both Houses concerning divers Petitions presented to the House of Commons Mr. PYM appointed to manage that CONFERENCE My LORDS I Am commanded by the Knights Citizens and Burgesses assembled for the Commons in Parliament to present to your Lordships divers Petitions which they have received from severall parts concerning the State of the Kingdome whereunto they are chiefly moved by that constant Affection which they have alwayes exprest of maintaining a firme union and good correspondence with your Lordships wherein they have ever found much advantage and contentment but never held it more important necessary then at this time wherein the Wisdome and Resolution of Parliament have as many great Dangers and Difficulties to passe through as ever heretofore We are united in the publique trust which is derived from the Common-wealth in the common Dutie and Obligation whereby God doth bind us to the discharge of that trust and the Commons desire to impart to your Lordships whatsoever Information or Intelligence whatsoever Incouragement or Assistance they have received from those severall Countries which they represent that so likewise wee may be united in the same Intentions and Endeavours of improving all to the service of his Majestie and the common good of the Kingdome The Petitions which I am directed to communicate to your Lordships are foure from London Midlesex Essex and Hertfordshire We have received many more but it would take up too much time and be too great a trouble to peruse all and in these foure you may perceive the Effect and Sense of all First I am to desire your Lordships to heare them read and then I shall persue my Instructions in propounding some Observations out of them TO THE HONOURABLE THE KNIGHTS CITIZENS and BVRGESSES of the House of COMMONS assembled in PARLIAMENT The humble Petition and Answer of the Major Aldermen and the rest of the Common Councell of the Citie of LONDON Sheweth THat the Committee of this Honourable House upon Saturday the 22. of this instant Ianuary sent a message to the Petitioners for the loane of one hundred thousand pounds or of so much thereof as could conveniently be forth with raised for levying of forces to suppresse the Rebells in Ireland To which Message something was then answered and a further answer in writing promised In performance whereof they humbly present the answer following together with the Reasons thereof desiring that the same being the best that for the present they are able to give may favourably be accepted And they shall ever pray c. The Answer THe Petitioners are duely and deeply sensible of the great miseries of their Brethren in Ireland and of the eminent danger not onely of the totall losse of that Kingdome but of the ruine of this also if that of Ireland should which God forbid be lost And as they have hitherto shewed themselves ready even beyond their abilities to serve the King and Parliament so shall they ever continue to the utmost of their power with all cheerefulnes and duty But at the present they are compelled to repeat their former Answer That they have no power to raise any Summes by way of Tax for any forreigne use and doe further answer that they have no meanes to doe it otherwise then by the immediate personall Consent of every particular Lender which they cannot hope to obtaine in regard of these obstructions following Which the Petitioners humbly present together with this their further Answere as the Reasons thereof 1. That immediately before the Parliament and sithence divers great Summes for the service of the King and Kingdome have beene already lent by the Citizens of London besides 50000. l. for the supply of Ireland in particular a great part whereof some of the Lenders were compelled to borrow and cannot to this day repay 2. That such part of those moneyes as are already due to the Citizens from the Parliament and should have bin repaid out of the Pole-moneyes and Subsidies is not yet done because there is not any considerable summe come in from the Countrey as was expected to satisfie the same 3. That the said 50000 l. lent for Ireland was hastened and speedily paid within neare about 2000 l upon this ground then urged by the Parliament that if it were forth with lent it might be of more use to preserve that Kingdome then the lone of 200000 l. could be if deferred but six Weeks yet no considerable Forces are sent thither to this day And we find that men will not be willing to lend any thing till they be assured that a good strength be sent thither with full Commission to relieve London Derry and other parts of that Kingdome 4. The generall withholding of very great Summes of money from the Petitioners and many others which moneys have beene long due not onely from Chapmen and other debtors in England but from very many in Ireland who owe many hundred Thousands of Pounds to the Citizens of London doth render divers persons of good Estates and credit hardly able to goe on with Trade or to pay their debts and maintain their Charge 5. The Brotherly offer of Scotland to send 10000 men into Jreland not yet so accepted as to produce any reliefe to that bleeding Kingdome while yet our Brethren are dayly massacred there discourageth most men from lending any Money were they never so able 6. The not passing the Bil for pressing of soldiers here whereby such forces as are requisit might be timely sent from hence into Ireland puts many men into feares that there may be some designe rather to lose that Kingdom and to consume this in the losing of Ireland than to preserve either the one or the other for that it cannot be conceived that the Rebells being growne so powerfull will be suppressed by volunteires 7. The slow issuing of Commissions to those who being in Ireland or going thither are willing to enter the field against the Rebells disables them from doing any effectuall execution upon the enemy unlesse in their owne defence and so all the monies that have beene or may be sent thither are exhausted to maintaine our forces to doe little or nothing worthy of them rather then imployed to chastise the Rebells and to reduce them to obedience by meanes whereof the number and power of the Rebels are greatly