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A47738
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Considerations of importance to Ireland in a letter to a member of Parliament there; upon occasion of Mr Molyneaux's late book: intituled, The case of Ireland's being bound by Acts of Parliament in England, stated. Printed anno 1698.
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Leslie, Charles, 1650-1722.
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1698
(1698)
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Wing L1125; ESTC R216404
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9,161
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10
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over me which he Claims And such sort of Submission no doubt there is and has been so Rul'd in all Ages and Cases Therefore the present Enquiry is Whether this Submission of the Parliament of Ireland be of this sort or not And what shou'd hinder it For here is a Submission and intire Obedience of Two Parliaments in Ireland to a Right and Jurisdiction which the Parliament of England does Claim over the Kingdom of Ireland And what can be an Owning of this Claim of the Parliament of England if this be not Here is no Caveat or Reserve put in by the Parliament of Ireland to save this Jurisdiction now Claim'd and put in Practice by the Parliament of England from being a Precedent for the Time to come But as Mr. Molyneux Words it an intire Obedience paid to the Jurisdiction of the Parliament of England Suppose a Man Claims a Paramount Right to my House and Estate and Pretends That I am but his Steward or Baily and hold only at his Pleasure And in pursuance of their pretended Right shall issue his Orders to me Limiting me what Servants I shall keep and Admit such and such for Tenants and no other And if I pay intire Obedience to these Orders without the least Interposition in behalf of my own Right and shou'd Execute these Orders as his Orders and not at all as my own or as deriving any Authority from me will it serve to say afterwards That this was purely Voluntary in me and that I only did what I had a mind to do my self Wou'd such an Excuse pass Wou'd it not appear extreamly Ridiculous But especially if I durst not make any such Excuse for my self only another pretended this for me The Parliament of Ireland has not Adventur'd to say any Thing of this in their own Behalf to enter the least Protest or Salvo for their own Rights and Independency upon the Parliament of England Therefore what is said on their Behalf by others not any way Authoriz'd by them cannot be taken as a keeping up of their Claim It is none of their Act and as they are not Answerable for it neither can they keep any Advantage by it The next Thing Mr. Molyneux Advances in Behalf of the People of Ireland to save their Rights from the Consequences of this Act is Page 113. Where he says That the Right of being Subject only to such Laws to which Men give their own Consent is so inherent to all Mankind and Founded on such Immutable Laws of Nature and Reason that 't is not to be Alien'd or Given up by any Body of Men whatsoever This strikes at the Power of the Irish Parliament to Give up the Rights of the People of Ireland as they have done by their intire Obedience to this Act of the English Parliament And this upon two Considerations First As supposing that the People never meant to Give up their Rights so intirely to their Representatives in Parliament as to Impower them to Betray them and Deliver them up to whom they thought â—it And therefore That any such Act or Concession of the Parliament is Void and not to be Own'd by the People Secondly That supposing the People had Granted their Representatives such a Power yet that the Grant was Void because that it was not in the Peoples Power to make such a Grant as being against the Immutable Laws of Nature and Reason I will not enter upon the Disquisition of these Topicks as being equally against the Power of all Parliaments as well in England as in Ireland And the Recurring to the Original Rights of Mankind antecedent to all Constitutions and Frames of Government carrys with it such long Consequences as I am not willing to meddle with at present But shall content my self with this which seems to be granted by this Argument That as far as it is in the Power of a Parliament to Give up the Rights of a People so far has the present Parliament of Ireland Given up the Rights of that People to the Parliament of England by their intire Obedience to this Act. And what Other or Better way there is for a People to Give up their Rights than by their Representatives in Parliament I leave it to the Learned to Dispute I am sure it is a more Authentick way than what Mr. Molyneux does next lay the Stress upon p. 114. viz. The general Application of the Chief part of the Irish Protestants that were at that time in London to the Parliament at Westminster for obtaining these Laws Which he wou'd improve to infer a Consent of the People of Ireland But this can never do For First This can in no Sense be Constru'd so Regular and Authorized a Representation of the People of Ireland as a Parliament freely Chosen and sitting in Ireland Secondly The Application of these Irish Protestants in London to the Parliament at Westminster for obtaining of these Laws was a Giving up of the Cause and Acknowledging this Contested Right of the Parliament of England over Ireland as much as was in these Irish Protestants Power to do it And I am sure some of them were minded of it at the same time And withal told That it was to no manner of Purpose For that if K. James of whom they were afraid should Return and should think fit to Assert the Laws made in in that Parliament he held in Ireland the Repeal of them by a Parliament in England which he did not Acknowledge would signify nothing And till he did not Return they were in no Danger of those Laws made to their Prejudice in his Parliament But they have Verify'd the Proverb Too Fast too Loose And would not Rest till they had Given this Precedent against Themselves The rest that Mr. Molineux says to save this Act Appointing the New Oaths from being a Surrender of the Rights and Liberties of Ireland is only by way of Complaint P. 114 115. That if some such Considerations as these before-mentioned may not Plead for Vs says he we are of all his Majesty's Subjects the most Vnfortunate Then he Appeals to the King's Justice to Protect the Rights and Liberties of Ireland and of their Parliaments as of England and Scotland c. But he may be told That Justice does not Relieve any but Infants and Idiots against their own Act and Deed. And that the Question is not now What Rights the Parliaments of Ireland had Formerly which Mr. Molineux has made appear Plain enough but whether they have not Surrendred them Particularly by their intire Obedience to this Act of the English Parliament Appointing the New Oaths and Abrogating the Old Enacted by Acts of Parliament in Ireland Let me here take Notice of the Difference betwixt the Two English Acts the one for Imposing the Oaths in England and the other for Imposing them in Ireland This Latter has set such Prodigious Penalties more than the Former as plainly shew the Difference they make twixt the Condition of Subjects
Considerations of Importance TO IRELAND In a LETTER to a Member of Parliament there upon Occasion of Mr. Molyneux's late Book Intituled The Case of Ireland's being bound by Acts of Parliament in England Stated Printed Anno 1698. MR. Molyneux has I think demonstratively prov'd the Independence of the Kingdom of Ireland from the Kingdom though not from the King of England because he is also King of Ireland as of Scotland though without any Subjection of the Kingdom of Scotland to the Kingdom of England I say he has prov'd this by undeniable Matter of Fact through all the ancient Precedents down to the Reign of K. Charles II. But from the Time he produces Precedents of some Acts of Parliament in England which have bound Ireland Against which he complains as Innovations And which therefore ought not to destroy their Ancient Liberties and Freedoms And he has besides Three Arguments by which he wou'd avail the force of these late Precedents from being any binding Law to Ireland so as to dissolve their Original Independency upon England The first is That there has been no occasion of Executing those Laws in Ireland as he Instances p. 103. upon occasion of the Tobacco Act i. e. forbidding Tobacco to be Planted in Ireland For there is none Planted there And therefore there has no Case happen'd to dispute the Validity of that Act made in England and consequently to know whether Ireland has Subjected it self to that Act Secondly That Private Persons may obey an English Act which relates to Ireland for their own Security and to avail Trouble or Charge to themselves But that this does not infer the Consent or Submission of the Kingdom of Ireland whereby it may be bound by such Precedents This may be Pleaded in Relation to the English Act of Navigation which obliges Irish Ships Importing any Goods from our Foreign Plantations to Touch first at England And the English Acts Prohibiting the Exportation of Wool from Ireland to any Country except to England These Mr. Molyneux mentions p. 103 104. The Third Argument he has is That some Acts have been made in England Relating to Ireland in the Times of such Wars and Confusions in Ireland that a Parliament could not be held there And yet that it was thought Necessary at least Beneficial to provide for the Safety of the English Interest there by Acts of Parliament in England till such Time as Regular Parliaments could be had in Ireland Upon this Head he endeavours to salve some Acts of the English Parliament made since this Revolution which relate to Ireland As the Act for the Protestant Irish Clergy p. 107. And the Act for Security of the Protestants of Ireland p. 109. Both made in the first Year of W. and M. But p. 111. He comes to a very hard Case which is The Act of the English Parliament Abrogating the Oath of Supremacy in Ireland and Appointing other Oaths 3 and 4 W. and M. c. 2. And To this says he the Parliament Conven'd at Dublin Anno 1692. under Lord Sydney and that likewise Anno 1695. under Lord Capel paid an intire Obedience And by this continues he 't is alledged we have given up our Right if any we had and have for ever acknowledged our Subordination to the Parliament of England And believe it it seems to be a very shrewd Allegation For none of the former Salvos will serve in this Case First was not in time of Wars and such Confusions as to hinder a Parliament to be held in Ireland For there was a Parliament held there the same Year Anno 1692. Secondly This was not the Compliance of Private Persons but of Two succeeding Parliaments Anno 1692. and 1695 in Ireland Thirdly It cannot be said That there had been no Occasion of Executing these Laws in Ireland For this Act has been Executed to the uttermost By this all Roman Catholicks are Disabled to sit in either House of Parliament there By this all the Popish and one Protestant Peer have been thrust out of their Seats in the House of Peers And by the same Rule all the rest and of the Commons too who had not taken Care to qualifie themselves pursuant to the English Act had forfeited their Right to sit in Parliament and consequently left Ireland without the Possibility of any Parliamant at all By this one Bishop and others of the Inferior Clergy have been Deprived By this Act several Penalties and Disabilities are impos'd upon Persons of all Ranks and Conditions which has been exacted upon all the Non-Compliers to the said English Act. Now if a People can give up their own Rights which according to Mr. Lock c. from whom Mr. Molyneux takes it upon Trust is the Original and Foundation of all Government what more Authentick Method can be taken than to have them Surrendred by the Cession and Submission of the Representatives of the People in Parliament This is a Material Point which if not cleared makes an end at once of all the Pretensions that can be set up in behalf of the Kingdom of Ireland for its being Independant upon the Kingdom of England and not bound by the Acts of Parliament in England even without having any Representatives in the English Parliament That is That the English as well as Irish in Ireland are in the Condition of Slaves and to be disposed of both as to their Lives and Fortunes without any Consent of their own by Themselves or their Representatives For such they have render'd themselves by the intire Obedience which Two of their Parliaments Successively have paid to the English Act enjoining the Oaths there and by Executing the same even in the Qualifications for Members to serve in Parliament which are prescribed in the said English Act. Therefore it will be worth the while to see what the Ingenious Mr. Molyneux has to say in order to Ward off so Fatal a Conclusion He says p. 111. 112. That this Submission of the Irish Parliament is to be deem'd as purely Voluntary and not at all proceeding from the Right which they conclude thereby in the Legislators If a man says he who has no Jurisdiction over me Command we to do a thing that is Pleasing to me and I do it it will not thence 〈◊〉 that therefore he obtains an Authority over me and 〈◊〉 ever hereafter I must Obey him of Duty If I Voluntarily give my Money to 〈◊〉 Man when I Please and think it Convenient for me this does â—â—t Authorize him at any time to Command my Money from me when he Pleases Thus he â—ut under favour this is a very Lame put off and the Case is not stated aright The Case is not of one who has no Jurisdiction over me that is who Claims none For then there is no Dispute But the Case shou'd be put of one who Claims a Jurisdiction over me and then it ought to be consider'd how far my Submission is to be Construed a Yielding up to him that Right