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A91667
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A reply to the House of Commons. Or rather to an impostor, giving answer in their names to the Londoners petition, presented to the said honourable House. Sept. 11. 1648.
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1648
(1648)
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Wing R1075; Thomason E470_6; ESTC R205525
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11,724
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15
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the oppressions brought upon us truly as there was a general conjunction of them both with the King in bringing in the same so could not we dis-joyn them in our expression and though it be an usual fault to asperse an order or whole Society for the Personal escapes of a few yet here we can discern no crime in it since it was not a few but almost all that partook in the Tytannie and the very nature and dependency of the order it self upon the Prerogative is such that it very much inclines them thereunto For taking away some of the Laws establisht which you count hainous in us so it be done in an orderly way by the House of Commons as we intend it we can see no crime in it It being the business and constant work of Parliaments and at this time as needful as ever since this House hath found that all kind of tyrannie and those Prerogatives which they have judged most destructive to the Common-wealth have very much support and countenance from the present Laws and Baâ—icadoes made up by them against those just means and expedients which necessity and the Peoples welfare enforce them to make use of For that excellent Maxime The safety of the People is above all Law which you say we mis-understand and mis-apply in using it to shake off obedience and in making the People Judges of safety Truly Sir we think you have mis-understood us for we make the House of Commons Judges of Safety which they themselves declared to be endangered by the Kings setting up his Standard before we engaged in the War The Maxime we do but suggest and would have them make use of and we know they have frequently done it where the Law doth not provide sufficient remedy You tell us The House of Commons have not denyed the Kings Negative voice And yet Sir they have waged a War without him and the People that part I mean that have assisted them have judged themselves sufficiently obliged by their Orders And though hitherto they have yeilded to that customary formality mistaking a Ceremony for a Fundamental a Complement for a necessary requisite to the essence of our Laws yet do they begin to see through it as appears by their Vores of no more Address and their manner of proceeding in the Treaty where they allow not the King that liberty which a Negative voice implies but insist upon the passing their Propositions in their own way and terms And though we think they have even in this yeilded the King too much considering the disproportion betweem them and his being conquered yet by this little they give us to understand that they allow not his Negative voice in that latitude he hath claimed it Thus by degrees you see all usurpations are like to be seen through amongst which this is one of the greatest most conducing I mean to establishment of Tyranny for by it it is at the pleasure of Kings who have ever studied themselves and their own elevation above the People to admit the passing of no Laws unlesse fore'd thereunto by the subjugation of Strength as at this time but what conduce thereunto And though at the beginning of this Parliament he yeelded to the taking away of many oppressions yet they were but such as he had brought upon us and that in policy too for the stopping of the Peoples mouths and to prevent the questioning of that power by which he fore'd them in for the maintaining where of he hath since sought and had he conquered all on our parts had been 〈◊〉 and Parliaments must either have no longer been or been as heretofore chiefly serviceable to his Designes 'T is to be considered too that Kings have upon the yeelding to the taking away of Oppressions demanded allowance So many Subsidies for example twelve for the taking away of Ship-mony or some other satisfaction in 〈◊〉 thereof as at this time Consideration is demanded for the Court of Wards 100000. l. per annum So that what was unduly brought upon us and for the doing whereof amends ought to be made to the persons damnified shall yet at their very removal give us one gird more to put us in mind were we by any injuries to be awaked of the notorious injustice of such usages Lastly To this Negative Voice I will ad only this That what was at first in Kings but as the Lord Majors setting to the Seal or as Acts passing in Holland in the name of the Earldom of Holland or in Venice in the name of S. Mark for in some name they must passe has been by craft and the advantages of times crept into a liberty of Will a Power of passing or not passing and to this the King thought to bring it in Scotland but that they had courage to tell him that he was bound to pass those Laws they brought which the King then wisely did to avoid the Dispute and that England might not take example and insist upon the time here Where we desire that all should be alike subject to the Laws you say nothing thereunto but bring in a consequence of your own from thence altogether forraign from our meaning telling us that our desire tends to have all alike and to destroy all Civil Subordination This is the usual sophistry of the times to blast that which is just and by all good men desirable by scandalizing us with an opinion we as much condemn as your self wise men should decline such foul play as if there were no difference between â—â—onomy and Community between all mens being subject alike to the Laws and all mens being alike for order and degree Our desire imports distinction of Conditions since it makes mention of the several degrees we would have equally subjected to the Laws As if a Lord could not be a Lord because he is liable to be arrested or impleaded at Law For shame leave such ridiculous inferrences and see your aptnesse to abuse us which yet we have no reason to advise you to for such weaknesses turn to our advantage You tel us We are not the whole People We easily grant it but all that notwithstanding though we were by many thousands fewer then we are that approve that Petition we hope we have that liberty which we think every single man has to present Petitions to the Legislative power for the alteration addition or substraction of any thing our Laws abound or are defective in And though many haply may dissent from us yet is it lawful for us to desire the foresaid Power to take what we present them into consideration which is not only not unlawful but our duty to which we are obliged by our gratitude and affection to our Country of the welfare whereof every good man ought to be considerative For our seeking Indempnity of the House of Commands for what we have done in order to their Commands and the necessitie of the Service and for the good of the Common-wealth no further we desire
A REPLY To the House of COMMONS Or rather to an IMPOSTOR Giving answer in their Names to the LONDONERS PETITION presented to the said Honourable House Sept. 11. 1648. LONDON Printed for William Larnar at the signe of the Black-moor within Bishopsgate 1648. A REPLY To the House of COMMONS OVr being continual losers and sufferers by the War is an Argument sufficient that we are for Peace since war in it self is of all humane things the most unwelcom except to such as blinded with the honour or commodity it brings them and well secured by others from the dint and danger thereof care not how long the Tempest lasts since what is cast out of the ship is received into the gulph of their Ambition and Avarice And as we have bin continual losers and sufferers so do we not admit any hopes to make up our fortunes or enrich our selves by the prolongation of the war but propose as we ever did to get our livings by our Trades and honest Industry and esteem a good Peace the Crown of our earthly happiness A good Peace we say for we are not so in love with it as to wish it upon any terms in a Dungeon in the Galleys under the most insufferable Tyrannie there may be peace but we would willingly that that we are in expectation of may be linkt with such a measure of just Freedom as should make some recompense for the former war that it should likewise be lasting which it cannot be unless it be sound And that it may be so we presented our Petition to the House of Commons containing such things as are not of any particular behoof to our selves as such or such a people but of a diffusive and common concernment importing an universal good to every honest man And truly we will not count it our boasting because it is but our duty in these self-seeking daies especially to manifest a greater measure of self-denyal Hence do we in our publike motions as we ought bear both in the heart and front of them a communicative happiness of which the greatest the meanest may partake And though the establishment of those things we desire may haply dis-relish the sickly appetites of lordly and avaritious men yet we are well assured that even such upon a settl ment would quickly find that they have bin mistaken in their way to felicity and that it is much more easily attainable and will prove less disturbed and more lasting by these expedients that we propose than any that we have yet seen For the scruples and objections which are raised against our Petition in the name of the House of Commons which had bin proper enough if the pretended one at Oxford had bin now sitting we will reduce the weight and material circumstances thereof to certain heads which if we can cleer we question not but the whole frame and fabrick of that answer will fall to the ground First therefore Concerning the Kings Supremacy over the House of Commons We yeild that the stile of many of our Laws the traditional exercise and belief thereof are strong on your part and from hence certainly many of you Royalists we mean were perswaded even to your very great prejudice to assist him in its vindication and the Parliament likewise and their Adherents though excessively abused and trampled upon by him did timorously and but faintly engage themselves against him so that at first the superstition being strong and our understandings mis-guided with the delusions of above 500. yeers practise upon us every King making it his business not only by power but by Law and Parliament to rivet the opinion of his Prerogative and Supremacy in our hearts and having all the advantages that could be thought upon to accomplish the same as the Scholers to preach it and mix it even with the most sacred mysteries the Lawyers to plead it the Officers and Power of the Kingdom to support it the custody of all Records of the embezelment whereof every Age hath complained the Licensing of Books whereby nothing but what made for it had publike view and a thousand more particular advantages that might be recited all which considered we say it is no wonder if at first both Parliament and People looked upon the King as Recusants upon the Pope on whom the superstition is not more strong for we esteemed him a thing Sacred Inviolable as the Breath of our Nostrils the Apple of our eies in all causes and over all Persons next and immediate under God Supreme Head and Governour Gods Vicegerent accountable only to him and thereupon declared the war for him Then were we likewise entangled with our oaths that slylie and politickly were at first insinuated and have bin since customarily and Traditionally taken without regard to the end or suspect of the designe in imposing them which was purposely to ensnare the weak and bind us to the adoration of an Image our fancies and follies have erected But when we came to consider the freâ—ness of the times administring means and matter thereunto and good men dayly writing for our Information the King on the one side persisting in his Tyranny and endeavouring by force of Arms to establish that power we had so smarted under before the Parliament Hereupon by degrees the clouds vanisht the mists of error and deception began to scatter and the shine of Truth to appear the eys of both Parliament and People began to open and though at first when the Parliament at Oxford was mixt with the Parliament at Westminster we professed absolutely and without conditions in May 1641. to defend the Kings person yet afterwards in the Vow that absurditie was omitted and in the Covenant the condition was wisely inserted in the defence of true Religion the Lawes and Liberties of England And not only so but in time the Parliament altered their Commissions that to our present renowned General making no mention of the defence of the Kings persons Afterward in their last message to him at Oxford they charge him with the guilt of all the blood that has bin shed in this War and tell him that before they treat with him he must make satisfaction to the Kingdom calling it in their Declaration of the 11 of February 1647. a destructive Maxime or Principle viz. That he oweth an account of his actions to none but God alone and voting no more addresses to him but that they will of themselves settle the present Government so as may best stand with the Peace and Happinesse of the Kingdom So that we hope according to your own rule you will not preferre those unripe expressions that at first past from the Parliament before those that after long debates and the wisdom of much experience did maturely proceed from them The Kings Supremacy was at first believed because not considered as Turkish children beleeve the divinitie of Mahomet because bred up to it but good Sir Let it be convased a little To make it good the King must