Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	king_n	place_n	scotland_n	3,689	5	8.3626	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85342	Good counsel in bad times, or, A good motion among many bad ones being a discovery of an old way to root out sects and heresies and an earnest desire for a complyance with all men to settle peace with justice : as also a relation of a remarkable piece of justice done by Duke William called the Good : likewise an epistle to the reader / by John Musgrave ...	Musgrave, John, fl. 1654.; Baudouin, François, 1520-1573.	1647 (1647)	Wing G1041A; ESTC R36608	23,472	37

see if it be possible to suppress their assemblies And doubtless if we look unto experience the perfect mistress of all things we shall find it is as impossible to hinder it as it is impossible to keep them from believing of that which they think fit and agreeing with the word of God Have we not I pray you seen the great power of the most victorious Emperor Charles the fift of famous memory who made all the world to tremble Have we not seen his most incredible diligence to suppress this Religion Have we not seen the rigorous edicts which he made and whereto tended it but to hinder the preaching of this new Religion and that they which made profession thereof should forbear their Assemblies For he knew well their hearts could not be forced and yet he prevailed nothing notwithstanding all his prohibitions It may be they assembled in some strange Country where they had greater liberty No no but contrariwise all the Princes of Christendom together with the Pope were resolved to root them out and to give them no place of retreat but all was in vain How do we then think that the Kings power the which out of doubt is not greater then the Emperors can hinder it seing that now France England Germany Scotland and all the Countries about are open unto them to retire themselves and to use the liberty that is here denied them whereas they have so many Kings and Princes on their side whereas the number is multiplyed by many and infinite thousands without doubt they which gave his Majesty this counsel shew plainly that either they want judgment or else they seek to settle their own greatness to the prejudice of the King and the ruine of the Countrey Let them examine all the Histories of the world and they shall find that when any new Religion hath been grounded upon the inward perswasion of the word of God that all the striving in the world could never hinder but the exterior discipline thereof would have its course The Romane Emperors could never force the Jews to receive their Statues into their Temples nor hinder the Christians from their Assemblies who desired rather to live like savage beasts in caves and rocks then to abandon the exercise of their Religion I will not examine whether their quarrel be like unto this so it is that they are as well perswaded in their hearts that they follow the word of God and that they are commanded to assemble and preach as they were which perswasion can never be wrested from them by any violence for they say among themselves that if they should be allowed to believe what they would so as they would forbear to teach and assemble were as much as if they should suffer a man to live so as he would take no refection and nourishment for they maintain that faith is entertained by the preaching of the word even as the life of the body is by the nourishment of meat But admit it were possible to forbid their Assemblies they must proceed either by rigor and force or by gentleness and perswasions that is they must either corrupt them or else force them to do against the testimony of their consciences and so falsifie their faith which they owe unto God It is most certain that the constant and vertuous will rather choose a thousand deaths then to do any thing against their Consciences so as with them there were nothing to be gotten As for the rest who for fear or hope would deny their faith First they should grievously offend the divine Majesty and damn their own souls by this falshood and dissimulation for that they should sin doubly first to have embraced the error and afterwards more to have falsified sified their faith and testimony of their Conscience and to have dealt doubly whereas God requireth sincerity and plainess so as they that should force them thereto should be the cause of their more grievous damnation They then which counsel the King to force or corrupt his subjects to the end that they should dissemble and make shew of any other Religion then that which they believe in their hearts are the cause of the disloyalty which they commit against God and the King for without he shall carry himself disloyally to God either for fear or hope it is to be presumed that by the same passions he will carry himself as disloyally unto the King when as time and occasion shall be offered Constantius father to Constantine the Great although he were a Pagan yet he called Christians into his Court and admitted them to favour whom he did see ready to abandon goods and honours yea their own lives rather then to be disloyal unto the God whom they did worship yea he held them worthy of his friendship and did impart unto them most of his important affairs And in-truth the King hath no Subjects more faithful then those which obey him for Conscience that is to say because God hath so commanded it they which falsifie their conscience to please the King or for any other private respect shew that they do not obey the King for Conscience onely but for some other particular affection and if they make no difficulty to falsifie their Consciences in the service of God without doubt it is to be feared that when any passion or affection should move them either the fear of death or the losse of goods and credit or some such like thing they would make no great difficulty to falsifie their faith which they owe unto their King so as they which give this Counsel unto the King shew their ignorance for that they seek to root out them which in simplicity and sincerity of heart yeild obedience unto God and the King And as for those which proceed disloyally and against their Consciences they are not onely content to suffer them but also to advance them unto honour as we have seen by some examples of those who before having made profession of this Religion have afterwards without being condemned of error onely to aspire to honour and credit turned their Coats To conclude Although it were a thing possible to force or corrupt the Protestants to abandon their Religion and to doe against their Consciences yet were it not expedient for the good of the Common weal. But as I said It is not possible to hinder them unlesse they will ruine them and put them to death the which were hard to compasse for in the place of one they should put to death ten others wouldrise and those which dy so constantly rather then remove their faith are held for good men by the common people who have more regard to the constancy then to the cause which they maintaine whereupon they have desire to examine the Cause and come to fall into the same opinions so as this must needs cause them to multiply and encrease wherefore they that advise the King to this means are much abused for besides that they frustrate

Prayer Booke yet Papists in both these Countries are tollerated and protected Let Scotland beware whiles they contend for Conformity they again set not up our English Dagon but passing by formalities let both Kingdomes secure their owne Peace by yeelding to publick liberty and exercise of Religion without making search of their friends Consciences which no force can master but exulcerate rather and make worse as Courteous Reader thou maiest well discover by this ensuing discourse of Mr Baldwin delivered to the King of Spaines own hand which I have published for thine and my Countries peace and how we ought to behave our selves towards men of different Judgements and Religions For a Conclusion I give thee an exemplary act of Justice done by a Popish Earle upon a covetous and corrupt minister of Justice If our Parliament thereby would bee stirred up so to punish their Delinquent Committee men and wicked Judges injustice and oppression would stand afar off Justice depresse those factions which other wise will break this Nation whose welfare as my owne I desire John Musgrave A DISCOVRSE OF Francis Bavvdvvine Shewing the means to prevent the troubles of a Kingdom and to root out Sects and Heresies Delivered at a Conference to the King of SPAYNE Anno MDLXV ALL men which live under one King are bound to seek the preservation of the publick good and quiet History of the Netherlands written Anno 1609 in folio 356. and the entertainment of the Kings greatness and prosperity who is the Head of the Body whereof we are members I have thought that I am not to be taxed of arrogancie if according to the small Talent which I have received from the Lord I endeavour to discourse briefly of the means that might be held in these times in the which there is such great diversity of opinions To prevent all troubles and tumults that many arise as we have learned by the example of our Neighbours and withal satisfie as much as is possible the will and pleasure of the King our Lord whom by Gods law and commandment weare bound to obey and serve to the uttermost of our powers seing then as well here as in France England Scotland and Germany although there be some small difference a great part of the people are moved by exhortation and doctrine of those which they call Gospellers for that as they say they make profession to receive nothing but what is expresly contained in the Doctrine of the Gospel and of the Bible rejecting the ancient and accustomed manner of serving God as to go to masse to confess to receive the Sacrament fast for certain daies go on pilgrimages and other like exercises to joyn themselves to a new Doctrine and Religion which they call Reformed The question is how according to the Kings will and pleasure the people may be maintained in the ancient Faith without seeking any innovation and if happily the means seems somwhat difficult or rather impossible how we may prevent and shun many inconveniences which may arise or grow by the diversity that is among the Inhabitants of the Country First We must consider when any one speaketh of a Religion or Law it is to be understood that he speaketh of the Faith and apprehension which men have conceived and imprinted in their hearts and mindes touching God and his service and also touching the doctrine of their salvation Or else they comprehend not by this word Religion but the exercise and outward profession by the which we shew outwardly what we believe inwardly or at least what we should believe in our hearts As for the first It is most certain that they which follow the new Religion have a constant perswasion and impression in their hearts that what they do and believe is conformable to the word and commandment of God and they must above all things obey their Creator and rather endure death and all the torments of the world then willingly to go against his Word and commandments Seing then this maxime is graven in the hearts of men It is more then reason that God our Creator prescribe us what law he please and we are bound to obey him without any contradiction or exception whatsoever which maxime is not possible to root out of their hearts neither were there any reason to attempt it There must then some other means be sought to divert them from their faith Many have thought it best to proceed by force and terror by fire flames and all sorts of torments to the end that those which have not yet embraced this faith might by this means be terrified to remain in their ancient manner of doing but doubtless they are much abused as reason and daily experience doth teach for how is it possible to force and command the Conscience and minde by corporal violence How can any one perswade me that that man hath a bad faith whom I see die constantly and joyfully although I know not the ground of the one not the other Even as it is impossible for all the Monarchs of the world to keep the fire from exercising his heat when it encounters an object fit to burn In like sort it is as impossible for all men how mighty soever to restrain and hinder the spirit of man from discoursing and judging as he pleaseth and not to apply himself to that which he findeth best to agree with his natural impression the experience whereof is daily seen For what hath it availed to have put to death so many poor souls for the faith whereto have served the fires gibbets scaffolds tortures and torments which they have used in France in England yea and in these Countries Without doubt neither the power nor authority of men nor the sharpness of all the torments in the world avail any thing in this point The Kings of Aegypt were mighty but they could never command the consciences of the children of Israel The Romane Emperors held almost all the world in subjection who neither spared fire nor flames crosses nor gibbets cords nor tortures nor any kind of torments that could be devised or invented to root out the Christian faith and to terrifie their subjects to divert them and to retain them in their ancient belief and Pagan Religion and yet they prevailed nothing in their designes but contrariwise did much hinder their intents So that the Christians were wont to use a common proverb amongst them That the blood of their Martyrs was the seed of their Churches And indeed Iulian the apostate Emperor a malicious and subtle man seing that to root out the Christian Religion all his Predecessors had prevailed nothing but contrariwise that it was much augmented by means of the persecutions and that those which died for their faith took it for a glory and honour from that time forward he would no more persecute them neither by fire nor sword nor by any corporal violence although they hated him deadly but sought by gentleness and perswasions to draw them from

give assistance to the Inquisitors to install the new Bishops or to send Garrisons into any Townes then can they say except they use extreme rigour and great diligence it will not bee possible to maintain the ancient Religion Importuning the Court with their continuall complaints how wonderfully the Hereticks doe multiply But if there be any question to finde some milde and fit course to settle the Countries quiet without any great effusion of bloud then they say there are so few Hugonots and of so base qualitie as nothing ought to be altered for them So as any man may easily see that their intent is to maintain themselves onely in their greatnesse were it with the totall ruines of his Majesties Countries and they that doe earnestly affect the Kings greatnesse and the preservation of his subjects much reject them as partiall and suspect and make diligent information and search of the number quality and sufficiency of them that desire to be the Kings faithful subjects so as they may satisfie and enjoy their consciences and without doubt you shall find a greater number then is generally believed let them look to the multitude of those that are retired into England where they have their publike Assemblies in infinite number then let them turn unto those that are gone into France in as great numbers from them let them number up them that are at Franckfort Straesburgh Hiddelburgh Franckendal Collen Aix Dousburgh Embden Geneva Hamburgh Breme and other Towns of the East Countries without doubt in my opinion they shall find an hundred thousand and as for those which remain yet in the Countrey it is most manifest there are many more There hath somtimes been seen at an assembly or preaching at Tournay four or five thousand persons the like hath been known at Valencien beside those that have remained secretly in their houses else the Garrisons had been needless which have been sent thither if the multitude had not been so great It is thought that Lille hath not many less whoso will look into the petty Towns and neighbour Villages shall undoubtedly find an infinite number come into West-Flanders the numbers are wonderful great notwithstanding any pursuit or search which the Dean of Rennay hath made Have we not seen at Missennes as I remember seven or eight hundred Country-men force the Prison and deliver a Prisoner and they could never discover who they were I leave Eand Brugges and Yperen in which notwithstanding are good numbers What multitudes meet together at Antwerp is apparent and at Brussels where the Court remaineth yet can they not by any means keep them from assembling themselves together in good numbers What shall I speak of the Countries of Holland Zeland Gelderland and Friesland where it seemeth they have greater liberties and in truth the officers dare make no more searches nor executions by reason of the great numbers Have we not seen at Vtrecht an Episcopal Town and full of rich Chanons one called Thijs or Stephen preach this doctrine publikely for the space of a whole year in the view of the whole world in despite of all such as did oppose themselves and notwithstanding all their pursuit yet could they never apprehend him for that all the people did accompany him-both going and coming out of the Church so that somtimes he was carried upon their shoulders and lodges somtime in one house somtime in another whereby we may see that the number is not so small as some maintain Yea they complain that they cannot furnish them with Ministers and Preachers enough Without doubt if they were gathered together in one place as well those which are retyred as they which remain there would be found at least two or three hundred thousand if they will have respect to them that are of the same opinion and dissemble attending some change or fitter opportunity I do certainly believe that all joyned together would equal the number of the rest so that they which maintain that the number is so small and that for them they should not alter nor change any thing shew that they have no sense nor judgment or else that they would reign alone in the world Whereas they say that they are all people of a base condition The contrary hath been seen in Germany France England Scotland and Denmark whereas not onely the common people but also Princes and Kings have embraced this Religion and doubtless if they might discover themselves without danger of life and goods they should also find here a great number of Gentlemen and others of good sort that would declare themselves to be of their party but although the number were not so great yea if there were but very few yet it were befitting the clemency of a King to have regard unto the health of the meanest of his subjects The Emperor Trajan was wont to say that he had rather save one Citizen and subject then defeat a whole army of his enemies a speech worthy of a Monatch and Emperor such then as think they should not spare to ruine as much as in them lies the bodies and souls of the Kings poor subjects shew themselves ignorant what Christianity Humanity or the Clemency of a King means or requires the very name whereof makes his fame more glorious than all the trophies and victories that he could obtain of his enemies But they will say that these men are wicked and prophane and that they corrupt the rest whereunto I answer that the point of Religion onely excepted whereon it is not my intention here to judge you shall find that they are otherwise good men fearing God yeilding obedience to the King and Magistrate and doing wrong to no man although there be some that cover themselves with their name and are not so the which happeneth for that they are not suffered to have the exercise of their Religion as they would and as for the point of their Religion let it be what they please but so it is they are not all persecuted so much for that they follow heresie and error but for that they are constant and faithful in that which they think conformable to the word of God for they suffer them to believe what they please which indeed they cannot hinder so as they will be disloyal and hypocrites and seing they submit themselves to be instructed by the word of God there is no reason to esteem them so wicked Moreover we must in despite of our selves confess that the greatest and best wits and the most learned men maintain their party I will not disgrace the others but if we will lay by all favour and affection we shall find that the most excellent wits have been and are of their profession Yea the restauration of Arts and Sciences which were buried in darkness is come from them the knowledge of the Tongues especially of the Greek and the Hebrew hath been beautified more by them then by any others To conclude their adversaries themselves are forced to