Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	justice_n	lord_n	thomas_n	3,038	5	8.3600	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91243	A plea for the Lords: or, A short, yet full and necessary vindication of the judiciary and legislative power of the House of Peeres, and the hereditary just right of the lords and barons of this realme, to sit, vote and judge in the high Court of Parliament. Against the late seditious anti-Parliamentary printed petitions, libells and pamphlets of Anabaptists, Levellers, agitators, Lilburne, Overton, and their dangerous confederates, who endeavour the utter subversion both of parliaments, King and peers, to set up an arbitrary polarchy and anarchy of their own new-modelling. / By William Prynne Esquire, a well-wisher to both Houses of Parliament, and the republike; now exceedingly shaken and indangered in their very foundations.	Prynne, William, 1600-1669.	1648 (1648)	Wing P4032; Thomason E430_8; ESTC R204735	72,921	83

Viscounts and Barons who sit there by reason of their dignities which they hold by discent or creation And likewise EVERY ONE OF THESE being of full age OUGHT TO HAVE a writ of summons EX DEBITO JUSTITIAE The third estate are the Commons of the Realme whereof there bee Knights of Shires or Counties Citizens of Cities Burgesses of Burro All which are respectively by the Shires or Counties Cities Buroughs by force of the Kings writ Ex debito Justitiae and none of them ought to be omitted and these represent all the Commons of the whole Realme and trusted for them and are in number at this time 493. Headed And it is observed that when there is best appeareance there is the best succession in Parliament At the Parliament holden in the 7. yeare of H. 5. holden before the Duke of Bedford Guardian of England of the Lords Spirituall Temporall there appeared but 30. in all at which Parliament there was but one Act of Parliament passed and that of no great weight In An. 50. H. 3. ALL THE LORDS APPEARED IN PERSON and not one by Proxy at which Parliament as appeareth by the Parliament Roll so many excellent things were sped and done that it was called Bonum Parliamentum And the King and these three estates are the great Corporation or the body of the Kingdome doe sit in two Houses of this Court of Parliament the King is Caput Principium Finis The Parliament cannot begin but by the Royall Presence of the King either in person or representation by a Guardian of England or Commissioners both of them appointed under the great Seale of England c. And 42. E. 3. Rot. Parl. num 7. It is declared by the Lords and Commons in full Parliament upon demand made of them on the behalfe of the King That they could not assent to any thing in Parliament that tended to the disinherison of the King and his Crowne whereunto they were sworne And p. 35. he hath this speciall observation That it is o●served by ancient Parliament men out of Record that Parliaments have not succeeded well in five cases First when the King hath beene in diffe●ence with his Lords and with his Commons Secondly When any of the great Lords were at variance betweene themselves Thirdly When there was no good correspondence between the Lords and Commons Fourthly When there was no vnity between the Commons themselves in all which our present Parliament is now most unhappy and so like to miscarry and succeede very ill Fiftly When there was no preparation for the Parliament before it began every of which hee manifests by particular instances From all these and sundry z Judge H●●rons Argument of Mr. Hampdens case p. 32. 33. Daltons office of Sherriffs other Authorities it is most evident transparent That both the King himselfe and Lords ought of right to be present in Parliament and ever have been so as well as the Commons and neither of them to be excluded since they all make up but one Parliament ought of right and duty to be present at and no Lords and Commons to depart from it without speciall leave under paine of amercement and other penalties because no binding Law can be passed without their joynt consents And that the Commons alone are no more a Parliament of themselves without the King and Lords than the Common Councell of London are an intire Corporation without the Lord Major Aldermen or the Covent without the Abbot the Chapter without the Deane or the leggs or belly a perfect man without the head or neck Sixtly The ancient and constant forme of endorsing Bills in Parliament begun in the Commons House in all Parliaments since the Houses first divided 33. H. 6. 17. Brooke Parliament 4 Cromptons jurisdiction of Courts f. 8. Mr. Hackuel of the manner of passing Bills in Parliament unanswerably demonstrates the Commons of Englands acknowledgment of the Lords right to fit vote assent or disassent to Bills in Parliament viz. SOIT'BAYLE A SEIGNEURS let it be delivered or sent up to the Lords Yea the Commons constant sending up of their own Members with Messages to the Lords and receiving Messages from them and intertaining frequent conferences with them in matters where their opinions differ in which conferences the Lords usually adhere to their dissents unlesse the Commons giveth emsatisfaction and convince them and the Lords oft times convince the Commons so farre as to consent to their alterations of Bills Ordinances Votes and oft to lay them quite afide is an unquestionable argument of their Right to sit and vote in Parliament and of their Negative Voyce too All which would prove but a meer absurdity and superfluity if the Commons in all ages and now too were not convinced that the Lords had as good right to sit and vote in Parliament and a Negative and dissenting voyce as well as they never once questioned or doubted till within this yeare or two by some seditious Disciples of Lilburnes and Overtons entering who endeavoured to evade their justice on them Seventhly This just Right of the Lords is expresly and notably confirmed by all the Commons of England in the Parliament of 31. H. 8. c. 10. concerning the placing and sitting of the Lords and Great Officers of State in the Parliament House made by the Commons consent It being in vaine to make such a Law continuing still till this very day both in force and use if they had no lawfull right to fit and vote in Parliament because they are not elective as Knights and Burgesses are And by the Statute of 39. H. 6. c. 1. made at the Commons own Petition to repeale the Parliament and all proceedings of it held at Coventry the yeare before by practice of some seditious persons of purpose to destroy some of the great Nobles faithfull and Lawfull Lords and Estates meerly out of malice and greedy and unsatiable coveteousnesse to possesse themselves of their lands possessions Offices and goods whereby many great Injuries Enormities and Inconveniences well nigh to the ruine decay and universall subvertion of the Kingdome ensued The very designe of our Lilburnists Sectaries and Levellers now out of particular malice and coveteousnesse to share the Lords and all rich Commoners lands and estates between them being poore and indigent covetuous people for the most part scarce forty of them worth one groat at least before these times This apparent Right of theirs is undeniably ratified and acknowledged not only by the very words of the writs by which the Lords themselves are summoned to the Parliament but even of the writs for election of Knights and Burgesses the forme and substance whereof are ancient and can receive NO ALTERATION NOR ADDITION but by Act of Parliament as b Institutes 4 p. 10. Sir Edward Cooke resolves By this writ the Prelates Nobles and others of the Realme are summoned to the Parliament there to treat and conferre with the King

which they never yet read nor understood there remaines nothing but to answer some Presidents and Objections The Principall president insisted on by Lilburne Object 1. is the Protestation of the Lords in the case of * Cooke 2. Instit p. 50. Sir Simon Beresford 4. E. 3. nu 6. which I have already fully answered retorted and shall therefore here pretermit The second is Sir Edward Cookes Authority Object 2. and the presidents cited by him in his 4. Institutes p. 23. 24. of Judicature in Parliament where thus he writes It is to be knowne THAT THE LORDS IN THEIR HOUSE HAVE POWER OF JUDICATURE And the Commons in their House have power of Judicature and both Houses together have power of Judicature But the handling thereof according to the weight and worth of the matter would require a whole Treatise of it selfe and to say the truth it is best understood by reading the Judgements and Records of Parliament at large and the Journalls of the House of the Lords and the Booke of the Clerke of the House of Commons which is a Record as it is affirmed by Act of Parliament in An. 6. H. 8. c. 16. To which he addes these marginall Notes Vide Placita in Parlians Anno 33. E. 1. rot 33. Nicholas Seagrave adjudg● Par Praelatos COMITES BARONES ET ALIOS DE CONCILIO At the Parliament at Yorke Ap. 12. E. 3. Consideratum est per Praelatos Comites BARONES ET COMMVNITATEM ANGLIAE the Lord Audleys care At the Parliament at Westm 15. E. 2 Hugh le pier adjuge per les SEIGNIEURS COMMONS Rot. Parl. 50. E. 3. n. 34. Lord Nevils case Then he a●des See Rot. Claus 1 R. 2. n. 5. 8. 38. ●0 A tresage Councell le Roy Les SEIGNIORS COMMONS c. Rot. Parl. 2. H. 5. nu 1● Err●ra sinned THAT THE LORDS gave Judgement WIT●OVT PETITION OR AS●●NT OF THE COMMONS Rot. Parl. 28. H. 6. nu 10. and many others in the Reigne of King H. 6. and Kin E. 4. And of later times see divers notable Judgements at the prosecution of the Commons By THE LORDS at the Parliaments ●●●den 18. and 21. Iac. Regis against Sir Giles Mompesson Sir Iohn Michell Viscount St. Albon Lord Chancellor of England the Earle of Middlesex Lord Treasurer of England whereby the due proceedings of Iudicature in such Caces doth appeare Then hee cites the cases of * 8. Eliz. Thomas Long * 23 Eliz. Arthur Hall * 2. A●●●l 1. Ma●●● and Muncton censured by the House of Commons only and by them fined and imprisoned without the Lords A●d concludes thus If any Lord of Parliament spirituall or temporall have committed any Oppression Bribery extortion or the like the HOUSE OF COMMONS BEING THE GENERALL INQUISITORS OF THE REALME comming out of all parts thereof may examine the same and if they find by the Vote of the House the charge to be true then they TRANSMIT THE SAME TO THE LORDS WITH THE WITNESSES and PROOFES From which passages of his some ignorantly have concluded That the Lords have no power of Judicature without but only joyntly with the Commons That all Commoners ought to be judged only by the Commons not by the Lords and That the Commons have a sole power of Judicature in cases of Commoners and the Lords no power but joyntly with them or upon their preceding Petitions and impeachments neither in case of Commoners nor Peers I answer that Sir Edward Cookes words are much mistaken and rightly understood warrant no such inferences but the contrary For first he clearely confesseth in direct termes That the Lords in their House have a power of judicature even without the Commons ha he de●med particularly in whose and in what cases out of the Judgements Records and Journals of Parliament at large to which he refers the Reader a being best understood by reading them which warrant the Lords judging fining imprisoning and condemning to death not only of Peers but of Commoners themselves without the Commons as I have fully manifested their could no such inference have been made Secondly ●e adde● That the Commons in their House have a power of Judicature From whence Lilburne and others inferre That they are and ought to be the sole Judges of all Commoners and not the Lords in all cases triable in Parliament But this is a most grosse mistake Sir Edward Cooke confining this Judicature of theirs only to these three c●ses First to matters and abuse concerning elections of Knights Citizens and Burgesses being Members of the Commons House the judgment and determination whereof the Commons alone of late times only have usually taken upon them without the Lords which he proves by Thomas Longs case 8. Eliz. and no greater antiquities of which elections the King and Lords in former times have been sole Judges for which I shall cite some memorable records worthy the Lords and ●●mmons consideration who now take upon them to suspend eje●● Judge their own Members elections without the Kings or Lords concurrence or privity a practice not heard of in former ages and of late originall In the Parliament holden at Westminster 5. H. 4. Rot. Parl. num 38. Thomas Thorpe his case Item because that the writ of summons of Parliament returned by the Sheriffe of Roteland was not sufficiently nor duely returned as the Commons conceived the said Commons prayed our Lord THE KING and THE LORDS IN PARLIAMENT that this matter might be duly examined in Parliament and that in case their shall be default found in this matter that such a punishment might be inflicted which might become exemplary to others to offend againe in the like manner Whereupon our said Lord the King IN FULL PARLIAMENT commanded THE LORDS IN PARLIAMENT TO EXAMINE THE SAID MATTER and to doe therein AS TO THEM SHOULD SEEME BEST IN THEIR DISCRETIONS And thereupon the SAID LORDS caused to come BEFORE THEM IN PARLIAMENT as well the said Sheriffe as William One by who was returned by the said Sheriffe for one of the Knights of the said County and Thomas Thorpe who was elected in full Countie to be one of the Knights of the said Shire for the said Parliament and not returned by the said Sheriffe And the said parties being duely examined and their reasons well considered in the said Parliament IT WAS AGREED BY THE SAID LORDS that because the said Sheriffe had not made a sufficient returne of the said writ THAT HE SHALL AMEND THE SAID RETURN and THAT HE SHALL RETURN THE SAID THOMAS FOR ONE OF THE SAID KNIGHTS as he was elected in the said Countie for the Parliament and moreover that the said Sheriffe for this default SHALL BE DISCHARGED OF HIS OFFICE and COMMITTED PRISONER TO THE FLEET and that he should MAKE FINE and RANSOME AT THE KINGS PLEASURE Loe here the Lords in Parliament at the Commons request and by the Kings command examining and giving judgement in case of undue election even without the

to make such Knights Citizens and Burgesses lawfull Members of Parliament and to represent the Commons of England without any election of the people the Laws made by our Ancestors in Parliament See Littleton Fitz-Herbert Brut. Ashly Tit. VVarranty Obligat Covenant c. obliging their posterity whiles unrepealed as well as their Warranties Obligations Statutes Feofements Morgages and alienations of their Lands as the Objectors must acknowledge therefore they must of necessity grant their present sitting voting and judging too in Parliament to be lawfull because thus warranted by the Lawes and Customes of the Realme 4. If all Power in Government and right of sitting judging and making Lawes or Ordinances in Parliament be founded upon the immediate free election of all those that are to be Governed and of necessity that all those who are to be subject and they ought to be represented by those who have power in Government the Summe of f See M. Edwards his Gangraena part 3. p. 142. to 162. Lilburnes Overtons and the Levellers reasons against the Lords Iurisdiction then it will of necessity follow that the orders Votes Ordinances and Lawes made by or consented to by the Knights Citizens and Burgesses in Parliament ought not to bind any Ministers Women Children Infants Servants Strangers Freeholders Citizens Burgesses Artificers or others who cannot well or properly be represented but by persons of their owne sex degrees trades and callings and so every sex trade calling in each County and Corporation in England should send Members of their own to Parliament to represent them but only such Freeholders and Burgesses who had voices in and gave free consent to their Elections not any who have no voyces by Law or dissented from those elected and returned yea then it will necessarly follow that those Counties Cities and Burroughs whose Members have been injuriously impeached suspended driven away or thrust out of the House of Commons by the objectors and the Armies practise and violence contrary to all former presidents are absolutely free exempted and not bound by any Votes or Ordinances made or taxes imposed by the Commons House because they have no Members to represent them residing in Parliament and that those Counties and Burroughs whose Knights and Burgesses are dead or absent are no wayes obliged by any Votes Ordinances or Grants in Parliament And then how few in the Kingdome will or ought to yeeld obedience to any the Acts Ordinances or Votes of this present Parliament or to any Mayors Sheriffes Aldermen or Heads of Houses made by their Votes and Authority usually made by election heretofore or to any Iudges Justices Governours Generalls Captains or other Military Officers made by their Commission or appointment without the generality of the peoples Votes or consent especially when above halfe or three full parts of the Members were absent or driven from both Houses by the Objectors violence and menaces These Answers premised I shall now proceed to the proofe of the Lords undeniable Right and Authority to sit Vote and give Judgement in Parliament though not actually elected and called by the people as Knights and Burgesses are 1. It is evident by the Histories Republikes of most ancient and modern Kingdomes and Republikes in the world that their Princes Nobles Peers and great Officers of State have by the Originall Fundamentall Lawes and Institutions by right of their very g 31. H. 8 c. 10 See M. Seldens Titles of Honor Cassanaeus Catalogus Gloriae Mundi Alanso Lopez in Nobiliario and others who write of Nobility Cambd. Brit. of the No●●lity and Courts of Iustice in England Nobility Peerage and great Offices without any particular election of the people a just right and title to sit consult Vote enact Lawes and give Iudgement in all their Generall Assemblies of State Parliaments Senates Diets Councells as might be mainfested by particular instances in the Kingdomes Republikes Parliaments Diets and Generall Assemblies of the Iewes Egyptians Grecians Romans Persians Ethiopians Germans French Goths Vandalls Hungarians Bohemians Polonians Russians Swedes Scythians Tartars Moores Indians Spaniards Portugalls Danes Saxons Scots Irish and many others And to deny the like priviledge to our English Peers and Nobles which all Nobles Peers in all other Kingdomes Nations Republikes anciently have done and yet doe constantly enjoy without exceptions or dispute is a grosse unjury injustice and over-sight yea a great dishonor both to our Nobility and Nation Secondly By and in the very primitive constitution of our English Parliaments it was unanimously agreed by the Kingdomes and peoples generall consents that our Parliaments should be constituted and made up not of Knights and Burgisses onely elected by * E. H 6. c. 7. 10. H. 6. c. 2. 32 H. 6 c. 15. Crumpton Jurisdict p. 1. 2. 3. Cooke 4 Instit c. 1. Freeholders and Burgesses not by the generality of the vulgar people who would now claime and usurpe this right of election but likewise of the King the Supream Member by whose h Cooke Instit c. 1. n. 1. 10. Modus Tenendi Parliamentum Crompton Jurisdiction of Courts Tit. Parliament M. Seldens Tit. of Honour par 2. c. 5. writs the Parliaments were to be sommoned and by the Lords Peers Barons ecclesiasticall and civill and great Officers of the Realme who ought of right to sit vote make Lawes and give Judgement in Parliament by vertue of their Peerage Baronries and Offices without any election of the people the Commons themselves being no Parliament judicatory or Law-givers alone without the King and Lords as Modus tenendi Parliamentorum Sir Edward Cooke in his 4. Institutes ch 1. Mr. Seldens Titles of Honor part 2. ch 5. Vowell Camden Sir Thomas Smith Cowell Minshaw Crompton with others who have written of our English Parliaments assert and all our Parliament Rolls Statutes and i 33. H. 6. 16. Br. Parliam 4. 39. E 3. 7. 35. 11. H. 7 27. Br Parl. 107. 4. H. 7. 18. 7 H. 7. 14 Crumptons Iurisd f. 9. Co. 4. Institutes n 15 35. Fit f. 20. Dyer 92. Iudge Huttons Argument of Mr. Hamdens case p 32. 33. Law-bookes resolve without whose threefold concurrent assents there is or can be no Act of Parliament made Thirdly This right of theirs is confirmed by prescription and custome from the very first beginning of Parliaments in this Kingdome till this present their being no one president to be found in History or Record of any one Parliament held in this Island since it was a Kingdome without the King personally or representatively present by a Protector Custos or Regni Commissioners as he ought to be or without Lords and Peeres anciently stiled Aldermen Heretockes Senators Wisemen Nobles Princes Earles Counts Dukes c. by our Historians who make mention of their resorting to fitting voting and judging in our Parliaments Generall Assemblies and Councels under those Titles without the peoples Election long before the Conquerors time in the anciented Parliaments and Councels we read of

at all because some of the Lords were not come by reason of foule weather shortnesse of warning or other publike imployments all their personall presence in Parliament being reputed necessary and expedient And 20. R. 2. N. 8. The Commons themselves in Parliament required the King to SEND FOR SUCH BISHOPS and LORDS WHO WERE ABSENT to come to the Parliament before they would consult of what the Chancellor propounded to them in the Kings name and behalfe to consider of To recite no more ancient Presidents in the Parliament of 2. Caroli the Earle of Arundell sitting in the Parliament being committed by the King to the Tower of London about his sonnes marriage May 25 1626. without the Houses privity and consent whereby their Priviledges were infringed and the House deprived of one of their Members presence thereupon the Houses of Peeres adjourned themselves on the 25 and 26. of May without doing any thing and upon the Kings refusall to release him they adjourned from May 26. till June 2. refusing to sit and so that Parliament disolved in discontent his imprisonment in this case being a breach of Priviledge contrary to Magna Charta And not long after the beginning of this Parliament upon the Kings accusation and impeachment of the Lord Kimbolton and the five Members of the Commons House * An Exact collection part 1. both Houses adjourned and sate not as Houses till they had received satisfaction and restitution of those Members as the Journals of both Houses manifest it being an high breach of their Priviledges contrary to the Great Charter If then the Kings bare not summoning of some Peares to Parliament who ought to sit there by their right of Perage or impeaching or imprisoning any Peere unjustly to disable them to sit personally in Parliament be a breach of the fundamentall Lawes of the Realme and of Magna Charta it selfe confirmed in above 40. succeeding Parliaments then the Lords right to sit vote and Judge in Parliament is as firme and indisputable as Magna Charta can make it and consented to and confirmed by all the Commons people and Parliaments of England that ever consented to Magna Charta though they be not eligiable every Parliament by the freeholders people as Knights and Burgesses ought to be and to deny this birth-right and Priviledge of theirs is to deny Magna Charta it selfe and this present Parliaments Declarations and proceedings in the case of the Lord Kimbolton a member of the House of Peers Fifthly The ancient Treatise intituled * See Cooke ● Justit p. 12. for the Antiquity and for the Authority of this Treatise The manner of holding Parliaments in England in Edward the Confessors time before the Conquest rehearsed afterwards before William the Conqueror by the discreet men of the Kingdome and by himselfe approved and used in his time and in the times of his Successors Kings of England if the Title be true and the Treatise so ancient as many now take it to be determines thus of the Kings and Lords right to be personally present in all Parliaments The King IS bound by all meanes possible TO BE PRESENT AT THE PARLIAMENT unlesse he be detained or let there from by BODILY SICKNESSE and then he may keep his Chamber yet so THAT HELYE NOT WITHOUT THE MANOUR OR TOWNE WHERE THE PARLIAMENT IS HELD and then he ougth to send for twelve persons of the greatest and best of them that are summoned to the Parliament that is two Bishops two EARLES two BARONS two Knights of the Shire two Burgesses and two Citizens to looke upon his person to testifie and witnesse his estate and in their presence he ought to make a Commission and give Authority to the Archbishops of the Peace the steward of England and Cheife Justice that they joyntly and severally should begin the Parliament and continue the same in his name expresse mention being made in that Commission of the cause of his absence then which ought to suffice and admonish the OTHER NOBLES cheife men in the Parliament together with the evident testimony of the twelve Peers of theirs The reason is BECAVSE THERE WAS WONT TO BE A CRY OR MURMVR IN THE PARLIAMENT FOR THE KINGS ABSENCE BECAUSE HIS ABSENCE IS HURTFULL and DANGEROUS TO THE WHOLE COMMONALTY OF THE PARLIAMENT and KINGDOME WHEN THE KING SHALL BE ABSENT FROM HIS PARLIAMENT Neither indeed OUGHT OR MAY HE BE ABSENT BUT ONELY IN THE CASE AFORESAID After which it followes The Archbishops Bishops and other cheife of the Clergy ought to be summoned to come to the Parliament and Also EVERY EARLE and BARON and their PEERS OUGHT TO BE SUMMONED and COME TO THE PARLIAMENT c. Touching the beginning of the Parliament The Lord the King shall sit in the mi●st of the great bench and is bound to be present in the first and last day of Parliament And the Chancellors Treasurer and Barons of the Eschequer and justices were wont to record the defaults made in Parliament according to the order following In the third day of the Parliament the Barons of the Cinqueports shall be called and after wards the BARONS of England after them the EARLES Whereupon if the Barons of the Cinqueports be not come the Barony from whence they are shall be amerced at an hundred markes and an Earle at one hundred pounds After the same manner it must be done to those who are Peers to Earles and Barons After which it relates the manner of place of the Earles Barons and Peers in Parliament Then addes The Parliament may be held and OVGHT every day to begin at one of the clocke in the afternoone at which time THE KING IS TO BE PRESENT AT THE PARLIAMENT and ALL THE PEERS OF THE KINGDOME None of all the Peers of the Parliament MAY OR OUGHT TO DEPART alone from the Parliament unlesse he have obtained and that in full Parliament leave from the KING and of ALL HIS PEERS so to doe and that with all there be a remembrance kept in the Parliament roll of such leave and Liberty granted And if any of the Peers during the terme of the Parliament shal be sick or weake so as he is not able to come to the Parliament then he ought three dayes together send such as may excuse him to the Parliament or else two Peers must go and view him and if they finde him sicke then he may make a Proxy Of the Parliament the King is the Head the beginning and ending So this ancient Treatise The Statute of 5. R. 2. Parl. 2. ch 4. enacts by COMMAND of the King and ASSENT of the Prelates LORDS and COMMONS in Parliament That all and singular persons and Commonalties which from henceforth shall have the Summons of the Parliament shall come from henceforth to the Parliament in the manner AS THEY BE bound TO DOE and hath been ACCVSTOMED within the Realme of England OF OLD TIME And every person of the said Realme which from henceforth shall have the

hill unto the Gallows at Tiburn there kenelled his bowels laid before him and after he should be hanged beheaded and quartered and his head sent to Calayes where the murther was committed and his quarters sent to other places where the King should please and thereupon command was given to the Marshall of England to make execution accordingly and it was so done the same day Lo here the Lords in Parliament g●ve judgement against a Commoner in case of a murther done at Calayes and so not triable at the Kings Bench but in Parliament and passe a judgement of High treason on him for murthering of a great Peere only And which is most remarkable all the Commons In this very Parliaments of 1 H. 4. nu 70. Nov 3. made their Protestation and further remonstrated to the King Nota. Com LES JVGGEMENTS DV PARLEMENT APEIRTEIGNENT SOVLEMENT AV ROY ET AS SEIGNEIVRS ET NIENT AS COMMVNES how the judgement of the Parl. appertained ONLY TO THE KING and TO THE LORDS and NOT VNTO THE COMMONS except in case it should please the King OF HIS SPECIALL GRACE to shew unto them the said JVDGEMENTS purcase de eux que null record soit fait in Parlement encoutreles ditz Communes quill soit ou serront parties ascunes juggements donez ouadoues en Apres in Parlement Whereunto it was answered by the Archbish of Canterbury by the Kings command how the said Commoners are petitioners and demanders and that THE KING THE LORDS de tont temps ont eves et aueront DE DROIT LES JVGGEMENT EN PARLEMENT en manere come me me les communes ount monstres HAVE ALVVAYES HAD AND SHALL HAVE OF RIGHT THE JVDGEMENTS IN PARLIAMENT in manner as the Commons themselves have declared except in making Statutes or in making Grants and Subsidies or such things for the common profit of the Realm wherein the King will have especially their advice and assent and that this order of proceeding shall be held and kept IN ALL TIMES TO COME By which record in Parliament it is apparent by the House of Commons own confession First that the Judgements in Parliament even in cases of Commoners appertain ONLY TO THE KING and LORDS in the affirmative Secondly that they appertain NOT TO THE COMMONS in the negative Thirdly that the King and LORDS HAVE ALWAYES HAD and ENJOYED THE RIGHT of Judgements in Parliament Fourthly that they should alwayes hold and enjoy this Right IN ALL TIMES TO COME Fifthly that the Commons speciall advise and assent was and is required by the King in Parliament only in making of Statutes Grants and Subsidies and such like things for the common profit of the Realm So full and punctuall a Parliamentary decision of the present controversie as is uncapable of any answer or evasion In the Parliament Roll of 17. y See Cook 3. Instit c. 2. p. 22. R. 2. num 20. 21. John Duke of Gayen and of Lancaster Steward of England and Thomas Duke of Glocester Constable of England the Kings Uncles complained to the King that Thomas Talbot Knight a Commoner and no Peere with other his adherents conspired the death of the said Duke in divers parts of Cheshire as the same was confessed and well known and prayed that the Parliament might judge of the faul● to wit whether it were treason according to the clause of the Statute of 25 E. 3. c. 2. It is accorded that if any other case supposed Treason which is not above specified doth happen before any Justices the Justices shall tarry without any going to judgement of the Treason till the cause be shewed and declared before the King and His Parliament whether it ought to be judged Treason or Felony whereupon the KING and THE LORDS IN THE PARLIAMEN● without the Commons though in case of a Commoner ADJVDGED THE SAME FACT TO BE OPEN and HIGH TREASON and thereupon they award two writs the one to the Sheriffes of Darby to take the body of the said Sir Thomas retornable in the Kings Bench in the moneth of Easter then next following and open Proclamation was made in Westminster Hall upon the Sheriffes return and the next coming in of the said Sir Thomas that the same Thomas SHOVLD BE CONVICTED OF TREASON and incurre the losse and pain of the same and that all such as should receive him after the same Proclamation should incurre the same losse and paine Sir z 3. Instit p. 22. Edward Cooke relating this Judgement addes his own opinion at the end That this judgement wanting the assent of the Commons was no Declaration of Treason within the Act of 25. E. ● because it was not by the King and his Parliament according to this Act but by the King and Lords ONLY But the record of Parliament and the Judges and Commons then admitted it to be good and processe issued out and judgement was given accordingly the parties concerned taking no such exceptions to it See 21. R. 2. n. 15. 16. So that this Record is a pregnant evidence That the King and Lords are the sole Judges in Parliament in the case of Commoners even in declaring and judging what is or what is not treason within the Statute of 25. E. 3. because the Commons are no Iudges in Parliament and so cannot Iudge or declare unles in a legislative way by Act of Parliament what is Treason or Pelony but the King and Lords alone To put this out of question I shall cite one notable record more to this purpose a Cooke 3. Instit p. 22. c. 1. p. 10. In the Parliament of 5. H. 4. 11. 12. on the 8. of February the Earle of Northumberland came before the King Lords and Commons in Parliament and by his Petition to the King acknowledged that he had done against his Lawes and alegiance and especially for gather of power and giving of Liveries for which he put himselfe upon the Kings grace and prayed pardon the rather for that upon the Kings Letters he yielded himselfe and came to the King at Yorke whereas he might have kept himselfe away Which Petition by the Kings command was delivered to the Justices to be examined and to have their counsell and advice therein Whereupon the LORDS made a Protestation que le Juggement appertient aeux tout soulement THAT THE JUDGEMENT APPERTAINED ONLY TO THEM And after the said Petition being read and considered before the King and the said Lords as Peers of Parliament a queux tells ●uggementz apperteignent DE DROIT TO WHOM SUCH JUDGEMENT APPERTAINED OF RIGHT having had by the Kings command competent deliberation thereupon and having also heard and considered as well the Statute made in the 25. yeare of King Edward the Kings Grand-father that now is concerning the Declaration of treason as the Statutes of Liveries made in this Kings raigne ADJUDGED that that which was done by the said Earle contained within his Petition was neither Treason nor Felony but Trespas for which