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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	john_n	lord_n	thomas_n	8,453	5	8.1675	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A63214	The tryals and condemnation of Thomas White alias Whitebread, provincial of the Jesuits in England, William Harcourt, pretended rector of ]ondon, John Fenwick,procurator for the Jesuits in England, John Gavan alias Gawen, and Anthony Turner, all Jesuits and priests; for high treason: in conspiring the death of the King, the subversion of the government, and Protestant religion. At the Sessions in the Old-Bailey for London and Middlesex, on Friday and Saturday, being the 13th and 14th of June, 1679. Published by authority.	Whitbread, Thomas, 1618-1679, defendant.; Barrow, William, 1610-1679, defendant.; Caldwell, John, 1628-1679, defendant.; Gawen, John, 1640-1679, defendant.; Turner, Anthony, 1628 or 9-1679, defendant.; Corker, James Maurus, 1636-1715, defendant.	1679 (1679)	Wing T2248; ESTC R219768	109,846	92

by the Grace of God of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. your Supream and Natural Lord not having the fear of God in your hearts nor weighing the Duty of your Allegiance but being moved and seduced by the instigation of the Devil the cordial love true due and natural Obedience which true and faithful Subjects of our said Soveraign Lord the King towards him should and of right ought to bear wholly withdrawing and devising and with all your strength intending the peace and common tranquility of this Realm to disturb and the true Worship of God within this Kingdom of England used and by the Law established to overthrow and the Government of this Realm to subvert and Sedition and Rebellion within this Kingdom of England to move stir up and procure and the cordial love and true and due obedience which true and faithful subjects of our said Soveraign Lord the King towards him should and of right ought to bear utterly to withdraw put out and extinguish and our said Soveraign Lord the King to Death and final Destruction to bring and put on the four and twentieth day of April in the thirtieth year of the Reign of our said Soveraign Lord King Charles the second at the parish of St. Giles in the Fields in the County of Middlesex aforesaid You the said Thomas White otherwise Whitebread John Fenwick William Harcourt otherwise Harrison John Gavan Anthony Turner and James Corker with diverse other false Traitors subjects of our said Soveraign Lord the King to the Jurors unknown falsly subtilly advisedly maliciously and traiterously did purpose compass imagine and intend Sedition and Rebellion within this Kingdom of England to move stir up and procure and a miserable slaughter among the subjects of our said Soveraign Lord the King to procure and cause and our said Soveraign Lord the King of his Kingly State Title Power and Government of his said Kingdom of England utterly to deprive depose cast down and disinherit him our said Soveraign Lord the King to death and final destruction to bring and put and the Government of this Kingdom of England the sincere Religion of God within the same rightly by the Laws of the same established at your will pleasure to change alter and the State of this whole Kingdom of England through all its parts well instituted ordained wholly to subvert and destroy and War within this Kingdom of England against our said Soveraign Lord the King to levy And to accomplish and fulfil your said most wicked Treasons and traiterous imaginations purposes You the said Thomas White otherwise Whitebread John Fenwick William Harcourt otherwise Harrison John Gavan Anthony Turner and James Corker and other false Traitors against our said Soveraign Lord the King to the Jurors unknown the said four and twentieth day of April with Force and Arms c. in the Parish aforesaid and County aforesaid falsly maliciously subtilly advisedly devillishly and traiterously did assemble unite and gather your selves together and then and there falsly maliciously subtilly advisedly devillishly and traiterously did consult consent and agree our said Soveraign Lord the King to Death and final Destruction to bring and put and the Religion of this Kingdom of England rightly and by the Laws of the same established to the Superstition of the Romish Church to change and alter and the Government of this Kingdom of England to subvert and that one Thomas Pickering and one John Grove should kill and murder our said Soveraign Lord the King and that you the said Thomas White otherwise Whitebread John Fenwick William Harcourt otherwise Harrison John Gavan Anthony Turner James Corker and other false Traitors against our said Soveraign Lord the King to the Jurors unknown should therefore say celebrate and perform a certain number of Masses then and there amongst your selves agreed on for the soul of the said Thomas Pickering and for that cause should pay to the said John Grove a certain sum if money then and there amongst your selves agreed on and that you the said Thomas White otherwise Whitebread John Fenwick William Harcourt otherwise Harrison John Gavan Anthony Turner and James Corker and other false Traitors to the Jurors unknown in further prosecution of the Treasons and traiterous Consultations and Agreements aforesaid afterwards the said four and twentieth day of April at the Parish aforesaid in the County aforesaid falsly subtilly advisedly maliciously devillishly and traiterously did severally each to the other engage your selves and upon the Sacrament traiterously swear and promise to conceal and not to divulge the said most wicked Treasons and traiterous compassings consultations and purposes aforesaid amongst your selves had traiterously to kill and murder our said Soveraign Lord the King and to introduce the Romish Religion within this Kingdom of England and the true reformed Religion within this Realm rightly and by the Laws of the same established to alter and changes and that you the said Thomas White otherwise Whitebread John Fenwick William Harcourt alias Harrison John Gavan Anthony Turner and James Corker and other false Traitors to the Jurors unknown in further prosecution of your said Treasons and traiterous intentions and agreements aforesaid afterwards the said four and twentieth day of April at the Parish aforesaid and County aforesaid falsly subtilly advisedly maliciously devillishly and traiterously did prepare perswade excite abet comfort and counsel four other persons to the Jurors unknown subjects of our said Soueraign Lord the King traiterously our said Soveraign Lord the King to kill and murder against the Duty of your Allegiance against the Peace of our Soveraign Lord the King his Crown and Dignity and against the form of the Statute in that Case made and provided How sayst thou Thomas White alias Whitebread art thou guilty of this High Treason whereof thou standest indicted or not guilty Whitebread My Lord I desire to speak one word I am advised by Council and I may and ought to represent it to this Court for not only my own life but the lives of others of his Majesties Subjects are concerned in it That upon the 17 th of December last I was tryed upon the same Indictment the Jury was impannell'd and called I put my self into the hands of the Jury and the Evidence was brought in and examin'd particularly against me and was found insufficient so that the Jury was dismissed without any Verdict I humbly submit my self to your Lordships and this noble Court whether I may not have Counsel in this point of Law to advise me whether I may and ought to plead again the second time for according to Law I am informed no man can be put in jeopardy of his Life the second time for the same cause Lord Ch. Just You say well Mr. Whitebread Whitebread I speak it not for my sake only but the sake of the whole Nation no man should be tried twice for the same cause by the same reason a man

may be tried twenty or a hundred times Lord Ch. Just You say well it is observed Mr. Whitebread but you must know that you were not put in jeopardy of your Life for the same thing for first the Jury were discharged of you it is true it was supposed when you were indicted that there would be two Witnesses against you but that fell out otherwise and the Law of the Land requiring two Witnesses to prove you guilty of Treason it was thought reasonable that you should not be put upon the Jury at all but you were discharged and then you were in no jeopardy of your Life Whitebread Under favour my Lord I was in Jeopardy for I was given in charge to the Jury and 't is the case of Seyer in 31. Eliz he was indicted for a Burglary committed the 1 st of August and pleaded to it and afterwards another indictment was prefer'd and all the Judges did declare that he could not be indicted the second time for the same fact because he was in Jeopardy of his life again Lord Ch. Just Surely you were not in Jeopardy and I 'le shew you how you were not suppose you had pleaded and the Jury were sworn Whitebread They were so in my case Lord Ch. Just T is true they were but supposing that presently upon that some accident falls out a Witness is taken sick and be feign to be carried a way or for any reasonable cause it should be thought fit by the Court to discharge the Jury of it that they should not pass upon your life are you in Jeopardy then Lo. Ch Just North. I would have you be satisfied with reason and the course of Law that other mens lives are under as well as yours The Oath the Jury take is that they shall well and truly try and true deliverance make of such Prisoners as they shall have in charge the charge of the Jury is not full till the Court give them a charge at the last after evidence had and because there was a mistake in your case that the evidence was not so full as might be the Jury before ever they considered concerning you at all they were discharged and so you were not in Jeopardy and I in my experience know it to be often done and t is the course of Law the Clerks will tell you t is frequently done here and at other places and this is not the same Indictment and it contains further matter then that you pleaded to before And then if you will make this Plea good that you go upon you must alledge a Record and shew some Record to make it good and that cannot be because there is none so it will signifie nothing to you as you have pleaded it Whitebread I desire the Record may be viewed it remains with you I do only present this to your Lordship and the Court and desire I may have Counsel L. C. J. No not all there is no entry made of it Whit. I desire that Counsel may advise me for I am advised that according to the Law of the Land I ought not to plead again I hope your Lorships will be of Counsel for me L C. J. Look you Mr. Whitebread there is no entry made upon it and the reason is because there was no Tryal and there was no Tryal because there was no Condemnation or Acquittal if there had been then you had said something Whitebread That which I ask is whether I ought not to be condemned or acquitted L. C. J. No it is only in the discretion of the Court. For if a man be indicted for murder and some accident should happen when the Witness come to prove it that he should be taken ill and so be carried away should the murtherer escape Whitebread That is not my case you may do as you please L. C. J. But we shew that it is in the discretion of the Court to discharge the Jury upon such accidents and then the party is not in Jeopardy Whitebread I have onely pray'd your Lordships discretion in this L. C. J. You ought to plead and most plead L. C. J. North. I suppose if any of my Brethren are of another Opinion then what we have expressed they would say so Court We are all of your Opinon L. C. J. All the Judges of England are of the same Opinion Mr. Record T is the constant practise L. C. J. T is frequent in all places it is no new thing Whitebread My Lord I am satisfied Cl. of Cr. Thomas White alias Whitebread art thou guilty of the High Treason whereof thou standest indicted or not guilty Whitebread Not guilty Cl of Cr Culprit How wilt thou be tryed Whitebread By God my countrey Cl. of Cr. God send thee a good deliverance John Fenwick art thou guilty of the same High Treason or not guilty Fenwick Not guilty Cl. of Crown Culprit How wilt thou be tried Fenwick By God and my Countrey Cl. of the Crown God send thee a good deliverance Fenwick I was tried before with Mr. Whitbread our case is the same the onely reason why I presume we were not proceeded against was because the second witness declared he had nothing to say against us that was Mr. Bedlow who said as to Mr. Whitbread and Mr. Fenwick I have nothing to say against them if he had given the same Evidence against us as he had done against the rest we had been condemned and had suffered and so I suppose we ought to have been discharged L. C. J. No it was not reasonable you should be discharged it remains in the discretion of the court not to let a man that is accused of a great and capital crime escape if there be one witness that swears expresly do you think it reasonable such a man should go scotfree though there wanted two that the Law requires You were not in danger your lives were not in Jeopardy Fenwick My Lord we were in the same danger with those Three that suffered L. C. J. No we never let the Jury go together to consider whether you were guilty or not guilty we did prevent your making your defence because we thought it not a sufficient Charge C. of C. William Harcourt alias Harrison how say'st thou art thou guilty of the high Treason whereof thou standest indicted or not guilty Harcourt Not guilty Cl. of Cr. Culprit How wil● thou be tried Harcourt By God and my country Cl of Cr. God send thee a good deliverance How saist thou John Gaven alias Gawen art thou Guilty of the same High Treason or not Guilty Gavan Not Guilty Cl of Cr Culprit how wilt thou be Tryed Gawen By God and my country Cl. of Cr. God send thee a good deliverance How saist thou Anthony Turner art thou Guilty of the same High Treason or not Guilty Turner Not Guilty Cl. of Cr. Culprit how wilt thou be Tryed Turner By God and my country Cl. of Cr. God send thee a good deliverance L. C.

my Lord the most of the time he remained there I acknowledge he was in the Infirmary L. C. J. How long Hall Four or five days or thereabouts L. C. J. Was he in the Colledge in April Hall Yes my Lord all along L. C. J. And all May Hall Yes my Lord I saw him all May I laid his Table neer the door at a particular place where he always sate Jury My Lord we desire to know what employment he is of now L. C. J. Hall what made you come into England Hall My Lord I had not my health there L. C J. How long had you lived there Hall Seven years and upwards L. C. J And when began you to be sick Hall I had not my health at Christmas in December 1677. L. C. J. What employment have you here for you had a good place there Hall I live at home with my Father and my friends L. C. J. What is your Father where lives h● Hall He is a Gentleman he lives in Radnorshire L. C. J. When came you to London Hall I came to England in July 1678. L. C. J. But you say you Father is in Radnorshire when came you here to Lnndon Hall I have been here about a moneth I was summoned up as a Witness Then one Dallison was called who did not appear and one Manshall appearing but speaking French and no English and an Interpreter not being ready he was for the present by the consent of the Prisoners set aside And then stood up one Cook L. C J. When came you from St. Omers Cooke In January Last L. C. J. And where have you been ever since Cooke Here in Town my Lord. L. C. J. Does your Father live here in Town Cooke No my Lord. L. C. J. Do your friends live here Cooke No my Lord. L. C. J. You came over upon this occasion did you Cook● Yes my Lord. L. C. J. When did you see Mr. Oates there Cooke I saw him in last June L C J And was he there in July Cooke No my Lord L C J What time did he go away Cooke The 23 d the Eve of the Feast of St Iohn Baptist L C J How do you know Cooke I made him some Clothes L C J Are you a Taylor Cooke Yes L C J How often did you see him Cooke Every day L C J. How came he to keep you company Cooke I could not chuse but see him sometimes I saw him 20 times a day L. C J. Where was he in April Cooke He was there all April L.C. J. He might be absent one day or so and you see him not Cooke He used to come twice a week to my shop for things L. C. J. Was he there all May Cooke Yes L. C. J. You say you saw him every other day Cooke Yes my Lord. Sir Chr. Levins Why Sir there are 150 Scholars there how can you tell he was there so well Mr. J. Pemberton Can you tell every one that was there all that time Cooke No I can't tell every one that was there but he was particular enough Lord Chief Just Did you live in Town as a Taylor or in the Colledge Cook In the Colledge Mr. Belwood Was Mr. Oates at Watton any part of the time Cooke Yes he was Mr. Belwood What day what month Cooke I cannot justly say the day but it was in April Lord Ch●ef Just How long was he absent Cooke Only one night as it shall please you Mr. Just Pemberton Heark you how came you to take notice that he was at Watton one night Cooke It was talked of among all the Scholars Lord Chief Just How can you remember what was said a year ago of one man Cooke It was reported all over the House Gaven In one place of his Narrative he says he came over with Sir John Warner and Sir Thomas Preston Lord Chief Just North That is nothing to the purpose If you can contradict him in any thing that hath been sworn here do Gaven If we can prove him a perjured man at any time we do our business L. C. J. You should have proved him a perjur'd man before How can we prove one Cause in another and then too he had been provided to make his defence Can he come prepared to make good every thing that he hath said in his life Dr. Oates Can I come to make good my Evidence against all I have done in my life Lord Chief Just Look you if so be he hath forsworn himself in any former Tryal if that would appear you have all the reason to make use of it but you have not taken the right way you should have indicted him and tryed him for perjury in the former Trial and then he could not have been heard at all in this Whitebread We were all Prisoners close shut up Lord Chief Justice We know you have a party strong enough and willing enough to convict him of Perjury if they could but look you Gentlemen here is the thing if you can give such Evidence as will satisfie the Jury that he was absent all April and all May you have said a great thing His Evidence will be quite contradicted Whitebread He says he came over with Sir Thomas Preston and Sir John Warner and others Lord Chief Just He says nothing of it now Dr. Oates May it please you my Lord I will answer it if you please Lord Chief Just They desire to know who came over with you when you came over in April Dr. Oates I will tell you and to convince the Court that in neither of the Trials I did contradict my self I say I did name some persons at one time that I did not name at another There came over with me the Rector of Liege Sir John Warner Father Williams Father Marish Father Warner Sir Tho. Preston and others Lord Chief Just This is dea●ing plainly with you Then stood up one Bartlett Lord Chief Just What Countrey-man are you Bartlett I am a Dutch man Lord Chief Just Can you speak English Bartlett Yes a little Lord Chief Just When came you from Saint Omers Bartlett I came from Saint Omers the 23 of May in the year 1678. new stile Gaven My Lord this man is come over to testifie that Oates is perjured in a circumstance about Sir John Warner Lord Chief Just He is to contradict Mr. Oates testimony for he says he came over with Sir John Warner and you say Sir John did not come at that time Gaven Yes Lord Chief Just Well when did Sir John Warner come over from Saint Omers Bartlett Whither Lord Chief Just Into England Bartlett Sir John Warner hath not been in England all May and all the month of April L. C. J. Where was he Bartlett He was at Watton I did see him there L. C. J. Were you there all that time Bartlett Yes I was Lord Ch. Just North Were you there all May Bartlet Yes I was L C J. When did you come over into England last Bartlett The

THE TRYALS AND Condemnation OF THOMAS WHITE alias WHITEBREAD Provincial of the Jesuits in England WILLIAM HARCOURT Pretended Rector of London JOHN FENWICK Procurator for the Jesuits in England JOHN GAVAN alias GAWEN And ANTHONY TURNER All JESUITS and PRIESTS FOR HIGH TREASON IN Conspiring the Death of the KING The SUBVERSION of the Government and Protestant Religion At the Sessions in the Old-Bailey for LONDON and MIDDLESEX on Friday and Saturday being the 13 th and 14 th of June 1679. Published by Authority Dublin Reprinted 1679. THE TRYALS c. On Friday the 13th of June 1679 at the Sessions-House in the Old-Bayley the Court being met at which all the Judges of England were present Proclamation was made of Silence and Attention whilst the King's Commission of Oyer and Terminer and of Gaol-Delivery were openly read and after the usual Proclamation of attendance upon the Sessions the Court proceeded to call the Jurys impannelled and to the Tryals of the Prisoners thus Cl. of Cr. SEt Thomas Whitebread John Fenwick William Harcourt John Gavan Anthony Turner and James Corker to the Bar Cap. Richardson They are all on Cl. of Cr. Thomas White alias Whitebread Hold up thy hand John Fenwick Hold up thy hand William Harcourt alias Harrison Hold up thy hand John Gavan Hold up thy hand Anthony Turner Hold up thy hand James Corker Hold up thy Hand which they all severally did And James Corker presented a Petition to the Court to this effect That about 8 moneths since the Petition Was committed for refusing to take the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy that he had lately received notice to prepare himself for his Tryal against this present day but that the same was afterwards contradicted and that yesterday a Gentleman informed him from the Attorney General that a Bill was found against him of High treason and that he was to prepare himself for his Tryal thereupon accordingly and forasmuch as the Petitioner is altogether ignorant of the matters charged upon him in the same and by reason thereof is absolutely surprised and unprepared for his defence and diverse Gaol-deliverys having been held since his first Commitment and he never called to his Tryal he doth humbly beseech their Honours that he may not be Tried till the next Sessions and that in the mean time he may have Copies of such informations as are given in against him L. C. J. Mr. Corker have you really any witnesses without whom you cannot make your Defence Corker No my Lord I have none L. C. J. You do not understand my Question do you want any witnesses now that you may have another time Corker I am a stranger to the things charged upon me L. C. J. Can you not tell whether you have any witnesses or no the matter is this both for you and all the rest of you that there may be no exception you are upon the Trial of your lives and we upon our Oaths and therefore I speak it if so be you have any witnesses because you pretend you are surprised if you have really any whereby you can make a better defence for your selves then now the Court will incline to your request but if you have not then 't is in vain to tarry Corker My Lord I verily believe I shall have Witnesses L. C. J. As for the copy of the Indictment it is never granted to any persons and therefore must not be to you L. C. J. N. You must give us clear satisfaction that you are real in your pretences and must give us the names of your witnesses where they live and let us know what they can say for you that we may be satisfied for such a general alligation as this any man living may make Mr. Recorder He was one of the ten that was appointed by the Council to be tried L. C. J. Why you had notice a week ago Corker But it was contradicted the next day Capt. Richardson I heard Mr. Clare say that he should not be tried then Mr. Att. Gen. He had notice together with the rest but he was not in the first Order of Council for the Trial of these persons he sent to the Clerk to know who were to be tried and his name was left out and so understood he was not to be tryed On Tuesday last I moved that he might be put into the Order and so he was and now there is an Order of Council for it but he had notice a week ago as well as the rest Capt. Richardson I gave them notice that all were to prepare for their Tryal as this day and in order to that I went to the Council to see what Order was taken about it and the Clerk shewed me their names amongst which Corker was left out and I told him Corker had notice of Trial and therefore I desired I might have an Order for him too they told me that there was no Order taken about him Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord I would have all the Gentlemen have all the fair play in the world therefore if he can satisfie your Lordship that he can have any Witnesses that he hath not now I am content his Tryal should stay to another time L. C. J. You shall hear the Indictment read and there you will know what sort of Treason it is you are charged with and after that you will make your answer whether you have any witnesses Mr. Recorder My Lord it will be necessary that I give your Lordship an account of one thing On Saturday night there came a Gentlewoman to me on the behalf of all the Prisoners and said there were some witnesses that she was under apprehension would not appear for the prisoners unless they had some order her name she told me was Ireland and she came in the name of all the prisoners she said I told her if she would bring me a Note of the witnesses names they did desire they should have all the assistanec the Court could give them for the getting of their Witnesses thi● day but since that time I never heard of the Gentlewoman or from the Prisoners L. C. J. Mr. Corker you will do well to take notice what you are charged withall and afterwards tell us if there are any witnesses that can say any thing for your defence at your Tryal for those matters Clerk of Cr. You stand indicted by the names of Thomas White in the Parish of St. Giles in the Fields in the County of Middlesex Clerk otherwise called Thomas Whitebread of the same Parish and County Clerk John Fenwick of the same Parish and County Clerk William Harcourt of the same Parish and County Clerk otherwise called William Harrison of the same Parish and County Clerk John Gavan of the same Parish and county Clerk Anthony Turner of the same Parish and County Clerk and James Corker of the same Parish and county Clerk For that you as false Traitors against the most Illustrious most Serene and most Excellent Prince Charles the Second

23 th of May L. C. J. How long have you been in England Bartlett About 5 or 6 weeks Lord Chief Just What is your Name Bartlett My Name is Bartlett Lord Chief Just But you say that you came over the 23 th of May. Bartlett I did not come over till the latter end of June Lord Chief Just Just now you said you came over the 23 th of May. Bartlett No my Lord I thought you had asked the question when Mr. Oates came over Mr. Just Pemberton He says so as your Lordship says before Lord Chief Just How do you know when Mr. Oates came over Bartlett I heard so beyond Sea Then one Carlier a Foreigner appearing and not being able to speak English Mr. Tisser the Under-sheriff of Middlesex was sworn truly to interpret his Testimony L. C. J. Mr Tisser you are only to tell us what he says Ask him when he came into England last Mr. Tisser He says my Lord it was between seven and eight weeks ago Lord Chief Just Ask him if he knows where Sir John Warner was last Summer was a year ago Mr. Tisser He says my Lord he was in Watton for two years last past L. C. J Ask him where he was all April was twelvemonth and all May Mr. Tisser My Lord he says that the last Sunday in April Sir John Warner was at his house at Watton Lord Chief Just And where was he all May Mr. Tisser In the same house Lord Chief Just Ask him how he does know Mr. Tisser My Lord he saith that he was a Gardener there L. C. J. It seems he says to the same effect as the last Witness did Call another Who did stand up L C. J. What is this mans name Gaven His name is Charles Verron L. C. J. Does he speak any English Gaven No he does not L. C. Just Then Mr. Tisser ask him if he knows Sir John Warner and where he was April and May was twelvemonth Lr. Tisser He says my Lord that he was at Watton all April and May and continued there till September L. C. J. Pray ask this man what quality he is of there Mr. Tisser He goes along with a Vessel between Saint Omers and Watton and that he knows it to be true Lord Chief J. Ask him if he did see him every day Mr. Tisser He says generally my Lord dayly Lord Chief Just Ask him what Religion he is of Mr. Tisser He says he is of the Roman Religion Then stood up one Baillee Lord Chief Just Ask him Mr. Tisser if he knows Sir John Warner and where he was all April and May was twelvemonth Mr. Tisser He says the same that he was at Watton all April and May. Lord Chief Just Ask him how he can tell Mr. Tisser He says he is a Servant of the House Lord Chief Just And did he see him there dayly Mr. Tisser My Lord he says that he gave him directions to make a Bastyment that he is a Mason and that he did give him directions dayly about it and that he saw him every day Lord Chief Just Look you Gentlemen of the Jury he speaks to the same purpose that the three Witnesses before spoke to he says he is a Mason and that he built a Bastyment there by direction from Sir John Warner and that Sir John Warner came dayly to give directions about it Then stood up John Joseph L. C. J. Do you know Sir Thomas Preston Joseph Yes my Lord. L. C. J. When did you see him Joseph In the months of April May and June L. C. J. Where was he then Joseph He was at the English House at Liege Lord Chief Just Did you see him there how often did you see him there Joseph I saw him there every day almost Lord Chief Just What occasion had you to see him what were you there Joseph I was Porter of the Gate Lord Chief Just And did you see him all the month of April Joseph Every day most commonly Lord Chief Just Did you see him once in a day or two Joseph I did see him in April May and June Lord Chief Just That you might do but did you see him very day Joseph Every day most commonly I cannot absolutely say but two or three days in a week Sir Cr. Levins Pray do you know of any time that Sir Tho. Preston was absent from Leige Joseph He was in the time of the vacancy Sir Cr. Levins Was he not absent in April or May Joseph No my Lord. Lord Chief Just When are the vacancies Joseph In August my Lord. Then stood up one Peter Carpenteer Lord Chief Just Do you know Sir Th● Preston Carpenteer Yes my Lord very well Lord Chief Just Where did you know him Carpenteer I knew him at Leige Lord Chief Just How often did you see him there in April and May. Carpenteer Every day I saw him there all April and May. Lord Chief Just What Office had you there Carpenteer I was Caterer Gaven My Lord we have no more Witnesses as to this point But my Lord my Case is different from the others Mr. Oates says he did not see me in the Congregation but he says he afterwards saw my hand to the Consult Now my Lord I have a Witness to prove that I was at that time at Wolverhampton in Staffordshire No body hath a right to sit in the Congregation till he become a professed Jesuit which at that time I was not Lord Chief Just He does not charge you to have been there though he says he saw your hand to it Gaven My Lord I was then in the Countrey Lord Chief Just North That will do you some and yet but little service if you can prove your self at Wolverhampton at that time but call your Witnesses L. C. J. Mr. Gaven he says he saw a Letter of yours giving an account how affairs stood in Staffordshire and Shropshire and that afterwards in July and before that Gentleman Mr. Ashby went to the Bath he heard you discourse of the same matter And though he cannot charge his memory to say he saw you the 24 th of April yet says he I did see his hand to the Consult and being asked how he knew your hand he says he knew it by your writing a Bill of Exchange in his presence Gaven I could not sign the Consult at London and not be at London Lord Chief J. North. I believe in such a business you care not how many hands you have but we will not prevent you calling your Witnesses You are upon your life don't spend the time call them quickly Lord Chief Just What do you call them to prove Gaven To prove that I was at Wolverhampton the 24 th and 25 th of April Lord Chief Just Pray hear what he says himself You say Sir you saw his hand to the Consult that was in April pray when was it that you saw it Dr. Oates It was in June or July Lord Chief Just North. You might set your hand