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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A16170	A courteous conference with the English Catholikes Romane about the six articles ministred vnto the seminarie priestes, wherein it is apparantly proued by their owne diuinitie, and the principles of their owne religion, that the Pope cannot depose her Maiestie, or release her subiectes of their alleageance vnto her. And finally, that the bull of Pius Quiutus [sic] pronounced against her Maiestie is of no force eyther in lawe or conscience, all Catholicke scruples to the contrarie beeing throughly and perfectly cleared and resolued, and many memoriall matters exactly discussed, which haue not beene handled by man heeretofore. Written by Iohn Bishop a recusant papist.	Bishop, John, d. 1613.; Frewen, John, 1558-1628.	1598 (1598)	STC 3092; ESTC S102284	61,282	90

famous Cardinall Taietan● that doth hold and maintaine that the Pope cannot erre in the definition of faith yet doth affirme in his commentaries vpon Mathew that he may erre in iudgement whether a thing be lawfull or noe And therefore he doth not accept the de●rees of the Pope in his controuersie of diuotee for definitiue of faith but for iudiciall And in iudgementes the Popes themselues saith he doe confesse that they haue erred and so then may also a generall counsell erre in iudgements by your owne rules if perhaps any iudgement be to be founde of the counsell of the Laterane against Raimond the Earle of Tolouse for not purging his country of the Albigenses Canons of counsels binde not but where they are receiued Nowe this first scruple beeing taken away let vs descend vnto our next article and conclusion that the Canon doth not binde vs in this realme who is so ignorant that knoweth not that all decrees and Canons of generall counsels are not obserued and kept in euerie country neyther doe thy binde the breakers of them in conscience As for example there was a decree made by the counsell at Nice that deacons shall not sit aboue priestes but yet we doe see at Rome the Deacon Cardinalles doe sitte aboue Bishoppes that be no Cardinalles Likewise in Sexto Constantinapolitano in Trullo there is forbidden kneeling in praier on the Sundayes and soe likewise all the time betweene Easter and Whitsontide And also that no man shall fast the Saturnedaies in Lent but the quite contrarie of both Canons was most vsuall in this lande and thought most deuoute when the Pope was in his highest prime heere Moreouer it is the common opinion of all the Canonistes that the decrees and Canons reformatiue doe not else where binde but where they haue beene receiued and therefore our seminary priestes doe holde that the Catholickes Romane of this Realme nor yet those in France be not bounde to obserue the Canons of the late counsell at Trent because they haue beene publikly receiued in neyther of the kingdomes This then beeing soe if I can prooue that this Canon of deposing of princes was neuer receiued in this Realme then haue I conuinced that it doth binde no man of this Realme in conscience And this will I first prooue by circumstance of the time and secondly because diuers other 〈◊〉 for downe in the same counsell were neuer obserued 〈◊〉 as for this Canon The Canon neuer receiued proued by circumstance of time it neuer came in practise heare ●ntill Kinge Henrie the eyght First it is certaine that the counsell at Laterane was helde in Anno Domini 1215. and in the seuenth yeare of the raigne of Kinge Io●n and in the time of the bloodie broyles of the Barons against the kinge it can not bee denyed but that the kinge had three Embassadours there and likelie enough it is that they subscribed and consented as the rest of the Embassadours did for their master sought all the meanes he coulde to please the Pope that hee might haue his helpe against the Barons and so indeede hee stoode his fast friende and at the counsell accursed the Barons suspended the Archbishoppe of Canterburie Stephan Lang●●● for taking parte with them and for the same quarrell would not allowe his brother Simon Elected Archbishoppe of yorke so that there is no doubte but the greatest parte of the realme were as readie to displease the Pope as their prince was to please him for the chiefest cause that moued the king to sende Embassadours vnto the counsell was saith Mathews of Paris to procure the Popes curse against the Barons These wofull warres continued to the death of kinge Iohn soe that no parliament was or coulde be helde whereby this Canon could be receiued For if Sir Thomas More in his debellation doth truely say that kinge Iohn coulde not make his kingdome tributarie to the Pope without the consente of the parliament much lesse coulde he giue the Pope authority to giue the realme away God knowes to whom it should please him or that Christian that was able to winne it by fine force for according to the rule of the Canon Lawe Quod omnes tangit ab omnibus debet approbari that which toucheth all men ought to be allowed and approued and confirmed by all wherefore the Lord chiefe Iustice in the first yeare of the raigne of Henry the seuenth as we doo reade in the reportes of the same yeare Termino Hillarii Chap. 10. affirmed that all the Barrons vnto the Pope that after a sorte commaunded Edwarde the first to surcease from warring on the Scottes that helde of him That although the king woulde giue away the right he had to Scotlands yet for all that it shoulde not be soe because that hee that is king of England is alwaies chiefe Lorde of Scotland And if the king of this Realme cannot of himselfe dispose of a thing annexed and incorporated to the crowne of this kingdome will any wise man be of opinion that king Iohn coulde dispose of the crowne of England of himselfe without the assent and consent of the states and ordaine forfeytures thereof to forreyners and strangers And although I can easily be perswaded that the subiectes for the extreame hatred that they bare vnto their present prince The iniquitie of the Canon woulde lightly be wonne to accept of causes to be discharged of their alleageanc to their king yet can I hardly be induced to beleeue that they coulde suffer themselues their wiues and children landes and liuinges goods and country to be exposed to the sacke and spoyle of all their neighbours yea of all Christendome if they shoulde vnhappily happe to haue a wicked king And also well might they satisfie the will and intent of the counsell without any such pernicious perill of there whole state and also retaine still their ancient honour and liberty if they themselues did make choise of the Physition that should purge them if that the law of God had not vtterly forbidden thē to rebell frō their prince were he neuer so wicked and not foolishly bind themselues to take a purgation of they know not whom perhaps vnhappily of such a one 〈◊〉 ●●te likely to purge them of ill humors so extreamely that he would destroy the habit of their bodye And hereof ●o saide an example they neded not to seeke far For as the very same instant they had a very plaine proofe thereof in France where the earle of Tolowse was depriued of his earledome because he would not purge his dominions of the Albigenses and the earledome giuen by the Pope vnto Simon the Earle of Monssort For that I may omit how bloudily Monssort executed the Popes mandate being generall of the Croysy against the Albigenses in sacking the Cities murdering the men and women how he did also vnder that pretence assaulte sacke cityes that were not one whit infected with that sect and slew in one battell twentie thousand

London are an hunded times more hotte to haue one hanged that hath slaine the basest Yeoman of theires then another that hath murdered his maister or the best noble man within the land Iames the fourth the Scottish King flew his father in the feilde and had noething said vnto him therefore but was excommunicated for aiding of his auncient Alie the french King whome the Pope loued not neither could his lamentable losse of life in that quarrel quench the Popes Choler but that he persecuted him when he was deade long time denyning his deade body buriall but yet that is noe sinne against the holy ghost for to aide on denounced a scismatike by the Pope nor to beare armes against the captaine of a croysy it doth appeare by that we doe reade in Mariners his historie of Spayne when Peter the king of Aragon comming to ayde the Earle of Tolouse and the Albigenses against whom the Pope had sent a croysy was slaine in battell by the Earle of Monsfort generall of the Croysy and that he would not deliuer Iames the sonne of Peter who was brought vp with him and shoulde haue maried his daughter but for this mischance vnlesse he would sweare that he would not reuenge his fathers death the Pope vpon complaint forced Monsfort by sharpe censures of excommunication to set him at libertie without any such promise that the Pope it was Iuno Centius the third might shew that he was annother God that woulde haue mercy where he woulde and be mercifull to whome it pleased him and that he doth nothing of desert but all motu proprio as they vse to say but yet perhappes he shewed grace vnto Iames for his fathers Peters sake who had purchased before hand his pardon for dying in the feilde in the succour of a scismaticke and heretike by being crowned at Rome by the Pope with a crowne made of singing breade or wafers and by graunting vnto the Pope the right to present vnto all ecclesiasticall lyuings But to returne againe to the deposing of Princes Iohn King Iohn the king of this land bereft both of kingdome and life Arthur his elder brothers sonne who had bene ordained and proclamed here apparant by common consent and kept his Sister with duble iniury in perpetuall prison and escaped scotfree at the Popes handes but when he would not accept for Archbishoppe Simon Langton a Cardinall of the Church of Rome aduanced to that office through the Popes extraordinary dealing hee had his whole realme interdicted which sustained no harme for accepting him for King against right and also himselfe was deposed therefore And what reason was there but that the King might aswell maintaine for Archbyshoppe the Byshoppe of Norwich the faithfull president of his counsell and a man whom the Pope coulde not iustly mislike being first chosen at Ganterburye by the Prior almost the whole couent as the Pope Simon Langton his Cardinall chosen after the other at Rome by a few of the couent that I may omitte that noe Byshop could euer be chosen in this realm without the Kings licence nor being chosen counted Byshoppe before the King had confirmed him And if the Pope said that the couent chose Norwitch at Canterbury for feare of the King because they had first elected their superior might not the King as truely say that they chose Langton at Rome for feare of the Pope for did he not force them to a new election yea threatned them who were afraid of the kings displeasure if they chose not Langton if Langton was an ill man why was the Pope so importunate to haue him Archbyshop if he were a good man why did that Pope shortly after himselfe excommunicate him what bare rule here but flesh bloud Did Langton so farre passe Norwich that hee would do more good to the Church of England then Norwich could do if he were placed Archbishoppe then the ceasing of all publicke seruice of God administration of the sacred Sacraments for the space of six years for so long the interdict lasteth thoughout the whole land could do harme how many soules may a mā probably think were lost through this long irreligiousnes which otherwise might haue bene saued I omit the great murdering of priests the banishing of Byshoppes the rasing of Abbes Churches Chappels the manifould miseries massacres wasts that I know not whether this more wilful or wofull interdict brought vnto this whol land But ye wil say that before the land was interdicted the king had driuen out of the land the monks of Canterbury seased on al their land goods And afterward did the like to the Byshops that published the interdict And also turned out of al such of the religious spiritual persōs as did fauour the Popes procedings all this before he was deposed by the Pope But yet all these mischieues proceeded of the Popes indirect dealing to make his Cardinall Archbyshop and if the Pope woulde haue relinquished that action the king had soon bene appeased And can any indifferent man thing that the king had not iust cause to bee displeased with the Couent of Canterbury who first chose scecretly in the night without his congedelier there Superior Archbishoppe and also priuilye sent him to Rome without the kings notice to be confirmed of the Pope and then misliking of their owne doings elected with the Kings licence his fauourite Norwich whom they afterward reiected without the kinges licence chose at Rome Langton one whom the King knew not And did not the Pope offer the King such a wrong as hath bene done neuer before nor since that time to cause the couent to choose a Byshoppe without the Kinges congedelier that to at Rome by a few of the couent sent thither in messages without their Pryor And if ye doe thinke the king dealt rigourously in banishing the Byshoppes that interdicted the land and in ceasing on their goodes that fauoured the Popes actions How can you excuse the Popes cruelty in interdicting the whole land whereof one halfe did take his part And faine would I know of you whether it proceded of charitie that the Pope woulde not release his interdict and censures when the King offred to receiue Langton See Mathew of Paris restore the banished men and fully to satisfy all men for theire losses vnlesse he would also become his vassall and make his realmes of England and Ireland tributarie for euer vnto the see of Rome was this charitie or couetousnes and ambition And againe came this of Charitie that the Pope who stoode so stiffe for the restitution of the losses of the clergie before the king had subiected himselfe and his Realmes vnto him did after that his owne turne was serued force the Byshoppes to take halfe their due and the rest of the clergie to beare their owne damages without one penny of recompence And yet see more partialitie in this Pope First he excommunicated deposed the king

the seruice of their Lordes and not prescribe lawes therein vnto all other not subiect vnto him no more then the Queene of England can enacte that if the king of Spaine shall doe this and this that then hee shall forfeite his Crowne Noe law of the Church touching temporalties euer alowed in this Realme or the king of France make an edict that if any Lord in England shal committe such and such faultes that then he shall forfitte all his propertie ouer his bondmen and they to be enfranchised And therfore because the Princes of this Realme did neuer acknoledge themselues vassals vnto the Pope nor the See of Rome nor neuer agnised him for their Soueraigne in temporalities they did neuer heare when the Popes authoritie was greatest administer iustice and adiudge secular causes here according to the Popes decrees and Canons of the counsels but alwaies according to the lawes costomes and statutes of the Realme and in those causes the Canon law had no authoritie and force in this Land This is so often affirmed by the author of the learned booke called the Doctor and student who as he was a greate lawyer so was he also a good diuine and deuout Catholicke that it weare tedious to rehearse them all In the xliiii Chapter of thee seconde booke thus hee writeth for the ordinarie no yet the partie himselfe haue any authoritie to binde any inheritance by the authoritie of the spirituall law how then can they binde the inheritance of the crowne And againe in the same Chapter and th●●fore it is somwhat to bee meruelled that ordinaries will admitte such land for a title c. without knowing how the common law will serue therein for of meere right all inheritance within this Realme ought to bee ordered by the Kinges Law Also in the xxxvi Chapter of the second booke the Doctor of diuinitie saith yet me thinkes alwaies that the title of the lapse in such case is giuen by the law of the Church and not by the temporall law and therefore it forceth but little what the temporall law will in it as me seemeth Whereunto the author answereth thus vnder the name of the student of law In such cuntries where the Pope hath power to determine the right of temporall thinges I thinke it is as thou sayest but in this realme it is not so And the right of presentment is a temporall thing and a temporall inheritance and therefore I doe thinke it belongeth to the Kinges law to determine and also to make lawes who shall present after the six moneth aswell as before so that the title of abilitie or none abilitie be not therefore taken from the ordinaries And in like wise it is of auoidance of benefices that is to say that it shall be iudged by the Kinges lawes when a benefice shal be saide uoide and when not and not by the law of the Church and shall the law of the Church determine when the crowne is voide As when a parson is made a Byshoppe or accepteth another benefice without licence or resigneth or is depriued in these causes the common law saith that the benefices be voide And so they should be though the Church had made a law to the contrarie And so if the Pope should haue any title in this case to present it should be by the lawe of this Realme And if hee should haue title to present vnto the Crowne should it not bee by the lawe of this Realme And I haue not seene ne harde that the lawes of this Realme haue giuen any title to the Pope to determine any temporal thing that may be lawfully determined by the Kings Court no● y●● that he may depose the King and giue his kingdom vnto any forreiner but because noe man should repute this lawyer for a Lollard and enimie vnto the Pope see what immediately followeth Doctor It seemeth by the reason that thou hast made now that thou preferrest the Kinges authoritie in presentments before the Popes and that me thinkes should not stand with the Law of God syth the Pope is the vicar generall vnder GOD. Student That I haue saide prooueth nor for the highest preferment in presentmentes is to haue authoritie to examine the abilitie of the person that is presented for if the presented bee able it sufficeth to the discharge of the ordinary by whomesoeuer hee bee presented that authoritie is not denyed by the lawe of the Realme to belong alwaies to the spirituall iurisdiction Thus seing the authour of the Doctor and the student whom some suppose to be Sainte Germany is prooued to bee noe partiall man against the Pope but onely a learned Lawyer that setteth downe vprightly to the satisfaction of mens consciences what right euery man hath and declareth the common opinion of his time when the Popes power was in the Prime we will rehearse yet more out of him to the confirmation of you our Catholicke countrimen who doe openly professe that ye will grant her maiestie as much and as greate authoritie as any of her ancestors before hir father had since the conquest yea or since they embraced the faith of Christ In the xlvii Chapter of the seconde booke he saith that although by the Canon Law the Pope ought to present to all benefice● or dignities the incumbents whereof dye at Rome or within two dayes ●ourney thereof yet he saith that it holdeth not 〈◊〉 this Realme because by the lawes of this realme the King ought according to the auncient right of his crowne to present of all his aduowsons that be of his patronage And in likewise other patrons of benefices of their presentment and the plea of the right of presentments of benefice is within this Realme belongeth to the King and his Crowne And these titles can not be taken from the king and his subiectes but by their assent and so the law that is made therein to put away that title bindeth not in this realme Then may I reason of a stronger that the Kinges title to the Crowne can not be taken away without his consent and so the Law that is made therin by the Church to put away that title bindeth not in this Realme But to returne againe vnto presentments of benefices who knoweth not the terrible statute of premunire made in the Raigne of Edwarde the third against all such as shoulde prouide English benefices or spirituall dignities from Rome or purchase them from the Pope and also against all atturneyes and agents in that matter against the which statute the Pope neuer spurned but suffered it saith Saint Germany and it hath alwaies beene vsed in this Realme with-without resistance yea and in the statute made against the prouisions and translations of Byshoppes by the Pope made in the xvi yeare of the raigne of Richarde the second the vi Chapter we finde in those wordes the cause of the making of the statute least the Crowne of this realme which is immediatly subiect to God and to none other

and admonished by the Church shall neglect to purge his land from this hereticall filthinesse let him be inknotted with the band of excommunication by the Metropolitane and Bishoppes of that prouince And if he shall contemne to satisfie within one yeare let this be signified vnto the Bishop of Rome that he may denounce his vassalles acquitted of his fealtie and expone or set forth his land vnto the Catholikes for them to take who the heretikes being driuen out may possesse it without contradiction and keepe it in the puritie of the faith so that the goods of such condemned men if they be laye men be escheted to the prince or if they be clarkes be applied to the Churches of whom they receiued stipendes Heere ye see is no definitiue sentence of faith set downe but onely an order appointed to be vsed for the rooting out of heresies so that no weake Catholike conscience neede to make scruple that the Pope can depose princes because the counsel doth say let it signified to the Bishoppe of Rome that he may denounce his subiectes loosed of their obedience c. For the counsell goeth no more about to decide whether Bishoppes of Rome may depose princes then whether Bishoppes may excommunicate them whereof no man in those daies doubted but content themselues with the vsed and practised authority of them both for long before this time had the Popes vsed to depose princes as Pope Gregory the seuenth the Emperour Henry the fourth and Boleslaw king of Poland And Innocentius tertius the present Pope that then held the counsell had himselfe before that time deposed the Emperours Philip and Otho Iohn the king of England and Raymond the Earle of Tolouse So that seeing no man did then moue any doubt whether Popes might lawfully doe it or no neither did the counsell then goe about to determine it but wholly omitting the matter doth onely set downe an order to be vsed for the destroying of heresies But otherwise if ye shoulde alwaies inferre that for decreed for faith and lawfull which generall counsels doe manie times as it were secretly receiue and not reproue ye will neuer be able to defend them from errour in faith and that which is equiualent from beeing one contradictorie vnto another For at the second counsell of Nice it is not refuted Cap. 32. but rather it seemeth by the way to be allowed that Angels haue materiall bodies So likewise this counsell may after a sort seeme to allowe that patrons may lawfully in good conscience detayne a greate parte of the tythes and profits of their Churches so that they doe leaue the vicar a sufficient liuing because that this counsell finding faulte with this misorder that patrons and certaine other persons doe take the profits of the parish Churches doth charge them with no more then the which what can be more against good conscience and equity then he to liue by the altar that serueth not at the altar and namely among Catholickes Romane that doe holde that tythes are by the lawe of God due onely to priestes and with what conscince then can any lay man enioy them Likewise in the same counsell there is a Canon that he that hath a parish Church shall not serue the cure by his vicar but by himselfe vnlesse perhaps the Church be annexed to a prebende or dignitie in the which case we do grant that he which hath a prebend or dignitie seeing it must be that he do serue in the greater Church that he doe endeuour to haue in that parish Church a meete and perpetuall vicar canonically instituted c. Heere ye see that this counsell doth not thinke that residence vpon benefices with charge of soules is commaunded by God his lawe which is contrary to the counsell at Treent in the 23 Section in the first chapter of reformation Yea Dominicus Soto in his booke de●ertitudine gratiae against Catherine doth flatly affirme that all the Bishops learned men that were at that counsell did so wholly agree thar residence was required by the lawe of God that there was not one man that doubted thereof but onely Catherine Moreouer this counsell thinkes it meeter that a man be resident in the Cathedrall Church then in his parish Church yea it seemeth to say of duetie it must be so a thing verie absurd in Dominicke Soto his iudgement who sharply reproueth the Cardinalles that haue Bishopprickes and be not resident on them but abide and continue at Rome and thinketh it no reason that they alleage that they ought to make their abode at Rome because they be Cardinalles and as it were assistants vnto the Pope for saith he residences vpon Bishopprickes are commaunded by God but Cardinalles to be attendant on the Pope is but a constitution of man the which must needes giue place to the ordinances more ancient and greater And bitterly doth he inuey against the common abuse that whereas by the Canons of the Church no Cardinall may be a Bishoppe because both offices require residence which one man can not performe the Cardinalles to delude the force of this Canon are neuer instituted Bishoppes but haue Bishopprickes giuen them in perpetuall commenda whereby it is come to passe that the ordinance of Commendaes which was first instituted for the benefite of the Church by suffering one to haue the gouernment of it for a time vntill a meete man might be founde for it is nowe vsed to the destruction of the Church and the vnlawfull enriching of the couetous ambitious Yea the counsell of Trent in the 25. Section Chap. 18. doth thinke this Canon of the counsell of Laterane so vnreasonable and vniust for to impropriate benefices with charge of soules and to ordaine in them a perpetuall vicar to serue the cure that they doe forbid the like to be done euer hereafter notwithstanding any grace or grant wisely weying the difference betweene an institution of God and an ordinance of man the seruing of God in a publike charge in priuate person finally howe much greater good or hurt may ensue by the continuall presence or the absence of the person in or from his parish then by his lying at or frō the Cathedral Church Soe that to salue all this gere both ye and we are forced to say that the counsels went not about to determine what ought to be beleeued in those poyntes and so also must ye doe in this controuersie of deposing princes and not to account it for a definition of faith but a politique constitution Of which kinde of Canons Saint Augustine saith De Baptis-Donat lib. 2. cap 3. who knoweth not that former generall counsels are often amended by the latter when by some experiment of thinges that is opened which had beene shut and that knowen that lay hidden without any type of sacrilegious pride without any swollen necke of vaine glorie without any contention of spi●●full enuie with holy humilitie Catholike peace and Christian charitie Moreouer the

worde saith hee signifieth also to gouerne It doth indeede properlie signifie to keepe sheepe as we terme it wherein wee include not onelie the feeding of them but also the care of looking to them that they take noe harme the dressing of them when they be ill and all other thinges belonging to the charge and duetie of a sheepehearde and properlie no other signification hath it but by a Metaphore to shewe with howe greate care mildenesse and lenitie kinges ought to gouerne their subiectes Homer and Plato doe often call kinges sheepeheardes of the people and so likewise the sacred scriptures In the twentith of the Actes we haue the same wordes where we reade Therefore looke vnto your selues and the whole flocke wherein the holie Ghost hath placed you Bishoppes and ouerseers in greeke poimaine the Church of God which he hath purchased him with his bloode Nowe that the Apostles or any Bishoppes had any secular power Pighius himselfe doth denie as long as the temporall princes had not receiued the Gospell so that this worde can by no meanes importe anie earthly superioritie And in this Oration Paule doth plainely declare what kinde of kingdome Christes is when hee saith to gouerne the Church of God which he purchased with his bloode for he purchased none with his bloode but t●●s spirituall kingdome for as GOD hee was possessed o● the Empyre of the whole worlde from the beginning But the place of binding and losing we haue examined alreadie and proued that it cannot be vnderstoode otherwise then Christ himselfe doth interpret it in the twenteth of Iohn whose sinnes ye shall remitte are remitted and whose sinnes yee shall retaine are retained and a receiuing into the Church and kingdome of heauen and a shutting out of it And therefore he saith whatsoeuer thou shalt binde on earth shall be bound in Heauen and not shall be bounde in earth least any man should dreame that he gaue Peter secular power ouer earthly Empires and that all the commandements and ordinances and decrees of his successors touching worldly matters should be receiued and kept throughout the whole world Neither if the Pope had any such authoritie giuen him by any generall Counsell A general counsell cannot depose Princes as I am assured he hath not for as for the canon made in the counsell of Laterane we will anone make a large seuerall treatise thereof were it good and sufficient to binde all Princes to obedience because it lieth not in the power of a generall counsell to dispose of secular matters For seeing generall counsells doe altogether consist of persons ecclesiasticall and they doe allow noe temporall prince any voice therein and that all the Byshoppes that are assembled there do sit as Byshops spirituall Lords not as temporal that they be secular subiects not soueraignes that the kingdom of the Church is a distincte kingdom as al the Catholickes say from the kingdomes of the world It is as absurd to holde that they can makes lawes touching temporalities to be obserued of all temporall Princes vnder temporall paines as if a madde man would affirme that the assembly of the three states of France may ordaine statutes for the Queenes maiesty of England hir realme and that they are bound in conscience to obserue all lawes made there For doubtlesse the temporall and the ecclesiasticall kingdomes are as seuerall kingdomes as Englande France which haue more alliance together then the other two because they are both secular both bodilie both ruled by one sword but of the other the one is spirituall the other bodily the one of the worlde the other of heauen the one swayed by the ciuill and materiall sworde ●he other by the spirituall the one slaying the soule the other the body But now I would not haue any fond man to imagine that I doe goe about to spoile the temporall prince of his high prerogatiue in ordaining of holsome lawes for the maintenance of the true faith of Christ and the sincere obseruation of all the rest of his holy commandementes the which I doe thinke him bound in conscience to doe but that I doe firmely beleeue and openly professe that by the right giuen him by God he may punish all persons both ecclesiasticall and temporall within his dominions that shall offend either in faith or manners by fine imprisonment banishment confiscation of landes and goodes attainder of blood death or finally any other temporall paines as the noble princes of this land haue alwaies vsed to doe And therefore Iustice Brian in Decimo of Henry the seauenth doth call the King a mixt person for he is saith Brian a person vnited with the priests of holy Church But I denie him the administration of gods holy sacraments and the exercise of the spirituall sworde which I doe appropriate vnto the ecclesiasticall officers Wherefore much lesse can the Byshoppes in a generall counsell giue away the crownes of their Kinges seeing according to the afore rehearsed rule of the Canon law noe man can giue that right vnto another which he hath not himselfe But if there were ordained a bodie politicke of all the Christian princes and states what they beeing assembled in a counsell generall might doe is annother question the which we will leaue to bee disputed of them that shall see this happe institution And in the meane time they must pardon vs if we doe not lightly beleeue that the Pope hath power to depose Princes seeing wee can finde no warrant therefore neither in the scriptures the auncient counsells the olde fathers the practise of the Church of God neither before Christ neither seauen hundreth years after him although there raigned many Idolatrous hereticall and wicked Princes Of the Iewish Kinges verye few were good but rather such men as GOD had streightly commaunded that they shoulde not spare if they were their Brothers or such a friende as hee looued as dearely as his owne soule but that his hand should bee first vppon him to stone him to death and yet wee doe not reade that any one of them was deposed by the high Priestes or his subiectes armed against him by them And yet were they so zealous men of their dignitie that they would in noe wise suffer the King to vsurpe ought vppon him in so much that one of them openly withstoode Ozias the King The history of king Ozias handled that woulde vnlawfully execute his office in offring incense vnto GOD neither doth the expelling of this King out of the temple by rhe Priestes because God had for his proude part stricken him with leprosie and that thereupon hee sequestred himselfe from companie and left the gouernement of matters of state vnto his sonne prooue ought against the prerogatiue of Princes The text saith 2. Coro 26.20 that they caused hastily to depart thence he was euen compelled to goe out as the English authour of the ecclesiasticall discipline doth inferre For hee was not expelled out of