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A48817 The difference between the Church and Court of Rome, considered in some reflections on a dialogue entituled, A conference between two Protestants and a Papist / by the author of the late seasonable discourse. Lloyd, William, 1627-1717. 1674 (1674) Wing L2677; ESTC R18276 29,803 41

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who are in the Communion of the Roman Church It is plainly this They are a sort of men who are alwayes the worse for Favour and Indulgence I mentioned but now the case of F. Watson who after his many publick declarations of himself against the traiterous Jesuits confuted all his Writings by his Actions But the particular which I now refer to is the time of this his Enterprize which was the entrance of K. Iames into this Kingdom when all the severities of the Laws against the Romanists were laid asleep and they received not only to a peaceful enjoyment of their Consciences and Estates but were admitted to the Court to Trust to Honours and Preferments nor was this treachery and falseness his singular Demerit At the same time and under the same circumstances was the Agency of the Romish Factors with the King of Spain for the procuring a second Invasion of their Native Country which might expiate that of 88. as also that hollish Machination of the Gun-Powder-Treason These though so barbarous in the intendment as to be capable of no aggravation had besides the forementioned Ingratitude of being attempted in a season of Indulgence this particular brand upon them that they were designed by those very men who had been guilty of Treasons in the time of Q. Elizabeth and had been graciously forgiven by K. Iames and personally had sued out their pardons from him under seal So that we may conclude it as reasonable an attempt to still a Tempest by whispering gently to it put out a Fire by pouring Oyl upon it or reclaim a Viper by receiving him into the Bosom as to hope by any Acts of Kindness and Indulgence to assure the Duty of a Roman Votary of whatever Principle or Subdivision he pretend to be ENQUIRY III. Whether the Popes power in deposing Kings be a Doctrine of the Roman Church Having debated this point already in the Seasonable Discourse and defended what I there asserted in my Reply to the Full Answerer there is really no need I should trouble my self or Reader in the proof of a thing perfectly evident But since the Gentleman with whom I had first to do and our present Author after him think they have abundantly cleared themselves by quoting a few Romanists who have denied the Exorbitant Tyrannies of the Pope and separating the Interests of the Court and Church of Rome with this Difference that whereas the Full Answerer quite slips over the mention of Councils this my Author after a short Reflection lightly passes the Allegations which I made from the Canons of the said Councils which I pretend to have been receiv'd as Universal not onely by the high-flown Papalins but these moderate pretenders and consequently what is by those Councils decreed must beyond all subterfuge be concluded to be the Doctrine of the Church And whereas the said Author onely addes some few colourable pretences to elude the Arguments drawn from the aforesaid Councils I shall which I take to be the alone remaining possible way of inforcement set down the express words of those Councils in plain English And then I hope there will need no infallible Interpreter to inform us of the meaning and importance of them And having done this I shall reply to those thin Sophisms which are brought to elude my Argument In the Seasonable Discourse I first cited the 27 Canon of the Third Lateran Council Cap. Sicut ait Where the Fathers having condemned the Cathari c. and subjected the Fautors of them to the same punishment with them 't is added They shall forfeit all the Fealty Homage and Obedience which was due to them Now we know who they are to whom Fealty and Homage in its remarkable and most proper importance is due But to avoid all Cavil this is determined to extend to Soveraign Princes by the express words of the Council of Constance as we shall see anon And therefore in the next place I proceed to the Fourth and as it is stiled by the Romanists the most General Council of Lateran Where the Fathers having condemned all Hereticks that exalt themselves against the Catholick Faith by them explained an Article whereof is That in the Sacrament of the Altar the Body and Blood of Christ are really contained the Bread being transubstantiated into the Body of Christ and the Wine into his Blood that is to wave all the monstrous Absurdities of Transubstantiation that they who receive onely the Bread receive onely the Body and they who receive the Cup onely receive the Blood of our Saviour for concomitancy cannot suit with things entirely separate And having required the Aid of the Secular Powers against the said Hereticks the Council proceeds in this form If the Temporal Lord requir'd or admonish'd by the Church shall neglect to purge his Territory from Heretical pravity let him be Excommunicated by the Metropolitan and his Suffragans and if he persist in neglecting to give satisfaction for the space of a year let him be signified to the Pope that he from thenceforth may pronounce his Subjects discharg'd from their Obedience and expose his Territory to be seiz'd by Catholicks who having exterminated the Hereticks without Contradiction shall possess it and preserve it in the Purity of Faith So as no injury be done to the Right of the Superiour Lord where there is such provided he do not any way oppose himself and the same Law is to take place on them who have no superiour Lord. Where we may observe how pitiful the Excuse is which is commonly brought that Soveraign Princes are not here meant but onely Feudatary when as if it were on purpose to exclude this plea those who are most Absolute and Supreme are particularly level'd with the other In the mean time we of this Nation may take notice That besides our own Runagates whom I cited in the Seasonable Discourse who make our Kingdom to be held in fee from the Pope in a manner all Foreign Writers go away with it as a thing confest and evident and bring as the common instance of the Popes power to depose Kings that his Holiness may dispose of the Crown of England even where they exempt the King of France from such subjection But this upon the by The same Council goes on and says That the Excommunicate Fautors of Heresies shall have no Votes in Councils or Elections shall not be allowed to make a Will to give Testimony or bear any Office or inherit an Estate If any happen to be a Iudge his Sentence shall be null and void If an Advocate he shall not be admitted to plead if a Clark or Notary the Instruments drawn by him shall be of no moment And so in all other like Cases Whence we may gather what assurance we are likely to have of the possession of our Estates if Popery prevail All Acts of Law all Bequests of Wills and Judiciary Proceedings since the Reformation and I suppose most English men hold
frequent repetition of the Statutes against Provisors in the time of our Ancestors and applied as a competent Security against those Usurpations of the Pope which were said by the seasonable Discourse to tend so much to the impoverishing of this Nation But in the mean time the Author doth not consider that the frequency of those Statutes sheweth as much their insufficiency as the making them argues the good will of the Legislators nor is it probable that any Remedy can be sufficient when the Supremacy of the Pope is acknowledged and where the whole belief of the Professors is concluded in that one rule of believing as the Church believes For the Pope being supposed to be the Head of the Church what Interpreters of the Churches Faith can they meet with equal to the Head of it Not to speak of those who believe in the infallibility lodged in the Pope General Councils are not every day assembled nor is it probable the Pope will permit them if likely to contradict or lessen his Authority In their absence what is there which can be put in ballance with the Reverence given to St. Peters Chair amongst the Professors of that Religion Shall the opinion of one or two Priests stand in competition with the Pope Can any man believe this plausible Doctrine of the power of Kings and contempt of the Pope's in comparison of theirs can have any other aim or effect than to procure a connivance or admittance of that Religion which whatever the opinion of some few Professors may be and what their sincerity is may be another question when it recovers its strength must turn like the Countrey-man's snake to sting those who with so much charity and kindness shall cherish and favour it To make this whole matter obvious to a common understanding let us suppose some loyal person stumbling at the irregular claims of the Pope and confusion and miseries brought into the world by that exorbitance and upon the conviction of that one Point which for its plainness he best understands and for its influence and effect upon his secular Interests he most studiously minds holding fast the loyal Principles of the Church of England since no other batteries can shake him comes Father N. and tells him he is in a great mistake to think that the great exaltation of the Pope's Authority is so necessary a Doctrine that for his own part he doth not believe it Well that stumbling-block being removed there is a Convert made to the Romish Church perhaps eminent enough to lead many others by his Example at least it is highly probable he wants not influence upon his Wife and Children if not others of his Relations and Acquaintance to pervert them also probably without conditioning so severely for their loyalty But what will become even of that capitulation when after perhaps some years of confirmation in all the Romish Opinions and particularly that of submission to the Churches Authority death or the censure of the Pope may have removed or a preferment have converted F. N. or such loyal Casuist For why may he not change his Opinion as Father Cressy did his in that very particular who in the first Edition of his Exomologesis made a Protestation of his Duty and Obedience which is corrected in the second And in any of these cases our Proselyte shall find himself entangled with the new Doctrines of his Confessor who in a season when Factions of State or other Circumstances prepare men for such dangerous Doctrines as they are too subtle to avow them or at least press them unseasonably shall urge the submission to the Churches opinion and then the quotations of so many Doctors which are now by our Author rejected and sleighted in comparison of one or two plausible opinions shall sound loud in concurrance with the Head of the Church who besides the credit of his own determination has the prescription of so many Ages the actual deposition of Princes in all parts of Europe from time to time and the decrees of Universal Councils to justifie his claim In vain shall the Penitent alledge to his Confessor that Father N. was of that opinion The Reply will be easie that Father N. was a good yea and a learned man in things where he agrees with the Church but still he was a man and subject to error and therefore not to be credited when he disagreed with the Church of which the Pope Colledge of Cardinals General Councils and so many Doctors who have wrote before and after Father N. are better and more credible Expositors than he It will be hard for any body to disentangle himself from this Argument if he have once surrendered his Faith implicitely to that of the Roman Church or as we have shewed under the usual Obligations been engaged in its Communion And if a person of so remarkable loyalty as we in this Instance suppose our Proselyte to be cannot be able to withstand and secure himself what shall we suppose of those his Relations and Acquaintance whom his Authority and Example turned to the Church of Rome perhaps with less Circumspection I have many Reasons to believe F. N. to be a very honest man as I know him to be ingenuous and learned and therefore stand amaz'd to see him offer to the World a Proposal so unreasonable as this is If he be in earnest as I must suppose him to be his Address to one of our Church whom he would bring over to his Part will run in this or such like Form Those only belong to the Fold of Christ who are under the conduct of the Universal Pastor his Holiness the Pope and they alone are sound in the Faith and consequently capable of Salvation who believe the Doctrine received by the Catholick that is the Roman Church It is therefore necessary for you as you tender the eternal welfare of your Soul religiously to obey this Pastor and believe all the Proposals of this Church But notwithstanding though this Pastor and as I shall presently demonstrate this Church have solemnly declared that Princes may be Excommunicated and then deprived of their Dominions by his Holiness you must by no means believe that damnable Doctrine and though you are sure to be excommunicated for your stubbornness therein as F. N. at this day is for this only crime you must endure it rather than comply with those false and rebellious Tenets that subvert the Laws destroy the Peace and endanger the Sacred Persons of Soveraign Princes In short upon pain of damnation you must be in Communion with the Roman Church and yet under the same penalty you must be content to be excommunicated you must believe as the Church believes and yet you must not believe so Before I leave this Point I must beg leave to add one Observation which may be useful to the determining how far it will consist with Prudence to hearken to the Proposition made for the encouraging by the relaxation of Penalties those
throw off his yoak but if ever the Church of Romo could eradicate the Reformed Religion which doubtless is and ever must be their great drift and aim Princes of the Romish Religion would find the want of that check and awe upon the Pope Will you see how tender and fearful Princes have been heretofore of claiming their Rights in this kind See Ed. 3. a brave and a magnanimous Prince in the vigour of his Age in the 25 year of his Reign when he comes to claim and vindicate his Rights in Ecclesiastical matters he is so fearful of offending the Pope that he seeks all possible excuses even whilst he is claiming his own First he layes the fault on his Predecessors and quotes the Statute made in his Grandfathers time In the next place the grievous complaint of the Commons must bear its share then the injury to private Patrons is called in for a pretence as if that gave rise to the complaint when all this while the King had power enough from the Rights inherent in the Crown and from former Statutes if he durst put it in practise then which is a wonderful Instance of his fear to offend the Pope for a farther excuse he sets up a claim for his people to the prejudice of his Negative voice the greatest and choicest flower of the Crown for in the Statute of Provisors of that year he makes the Commons to alledge nor is there any mark of his dislike but rather assent to it so desirous he was of an excuse toward the Pope that the Right of the Crown of England and the Law of the said Realm is such that upon mischiefs and damage which happened to his Realm he ought and is bound of the accord of his said people in his Parliament thereof to make Remedy and Law in voiding the mischiefs and damage which thereof cometh c. Then the King goes on himself to alledge his own Oath to see the Laws executed c. as the Reader may satisfie himself more fully from the Statute at large as it appears in all our Books I suppose this may sufficiently show how fearfully that Great and Generous Prince not subject to vain fears went about to remedy that Inconvenience What Fruit he reap'd from the hazard he adventur'd And how effectual that Great Medicine our Author so highly commends to us was may be conjectur'd by the need there was of another Statute of Provisors the very next Parliament viz. the 27 year of his Reign It would be too tedious to the Reader and my self to quote all the Statutes of that kind Instead of others which it were easie to produce I shall onely add that of the 16 of Rich. 2. cap. 5. Where the Commons of the Realm having complained of the intolerable Tyrannies and Oppressions of the See of Rome go on to pray the King and him require by way of Iustice that he would examine all the Lords in the Parliament as well Spiritual as Temporal severally and all the States of the Parliament how they think of the Cases aforesaid which be so openly against the Kings Crown and in derogation of his Regality and how they will stand in the same Cases with our Lord the King c. Whether this Examination was in order to the Attainder of the Persons or Suspension of the Votes of the Dissenters or some other purpose I will not take upon me to enquire Certainly considering the Greatness of the Peerage of England at that time such a way of procedure shews the greatness of the mischief which was desir'd to be redrest But the continued Complaint and fresh Endeavours for Remedy do likewise as evidently demonstrate that none of our Kings ever found an effectual Cure till the time of Henry the VIII who yet although he retain'd the Roman Profession of faith denying temporal Subjection to the Pope became liable to that Deprivation and Censure and all that Spiritual Thunder which so severely fell upon him and has since exercised his Successors But these our Princes who came after him having generally been of the Reformed Religion which they of Rome have declar'd to be Heresie the practises among us however exorbitant will not fall under our present consideration I shall therefore pass over to our Neighbours of France and examine how well the Priviledges of the Gallican Church have stood the most Christian Kings in stead which will readily be seen if we look into their Histories nor will we seek farther than the last Age. Henry the Third we know had difficulty enough with the Catholick holy League oppos'd not only by the high-flown Jesuited Romanists but the Bulwarks of Regal Authority the Loyal Doctors of the Sorbon who being Seventy in number unanimously decree nemine contradicente That the Subjects of France were freed from their Oaths of Allegiance and Obedience made to Henry the Third And also that the said Subjects may legally and with a safe Conscience arm and unite themselves collect and raise money c. Which Decree of the good Doctors was ratified by his Holiness in his Bull of Excommunication which suddenly followed and was pursued to such Extremities by the Leaguers that they were not onely content to subject that Kingdom to the Yoak of Spain but in despite of the Sallick Law endeavour that the Infanta Clara Eugenia Elizabetha should succeed unto the Crown and though the King turn'd Covenanter himself and Establish'd the Oath of Union in the Assembly of the Three Estates and personally swore to it making it a Fundamental Law of the French Nation that onely a Catholick should be capable to succeed unto the Crown yet notwithstanding this the said Henry the Third could not escape the Anger of his Holiness and what is consequent thereto the being depriv'd of his Kingdom and his Life massacred by I. Clement the Iacobin-Monk To him we know succeeded Henry the V. who after great strugling and the same opposition from the Unanimous Determination of the Loyal Sorbon-Doctors in their general Congregation who May 7. 1590. Declar'd Henry of Bourbon uncapable of the Crown though he should obtain Absolution from the Church and that the French were oblig'd to keep him from the Crown that all who favour him are in perpetual mortal sin and all that are slain in the Cause against him shall obtain an everlasting Reward and be crown'd with the Trophies of Martyrdom This Henry I say having by the blessing of God and a good Sword added possession to his Claim and in spite of opposition made himself Master of France yet this new Sallick Law stood still in his light and a Crown was not to be had but at the price of a Mass For though it be a receiv'd Maxime That the Crown removes all taint of Blood it cannot of Opinion One now would have expected in this instance that the Church Doors should have flown open to receive this Royal Convert but the case is far otherwise Five years diligent