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england_n	great_a	king_n	scotland_n	13,096	5	8.4515	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A88972	An answer by letter to a worthy gentleman who desired of a divine some reasons by which it might appeare how inconsistent presbyteriall government is with monarchy. In which the platforme of that government is briefly delineated, with the tenents and suitable practices thereof. And withall it is demonstrated, that it is inconsistent with any government whatsoever; is full of faction, sedition and treason; an enemy to all peace, domesticall, neighbourly, brotherly, &c. against soveraigne authority, authority of all iudges, and iudicatories, entrenching upon all so farre, as there can be no liberty of person, trade, commerce or propriety, but at their pleasure who bear sway therein.	Maxwell, John, 1590?-1647.	1644 (1644)	Wing M1377; Thomason E53_13; ESTC R20000	49,076	82

good men to oppose or moderate this course as to a man to stop a current of a flood after a great inundation of raine with his foot There is another trick of policy too whereby the Apostles of this province advance their own credit that the wisest of the Nobility and Gentry see who are the active and doing men and having their particular interest many times both in the publike and their own private they make their addresse to these Popes gaine them to their course and strengthen themselves by the Spirituall Sword to distu●be the publike or to gain their private ends whether right or wrong When the Commissioners from hence returne to their severall Presbyteries they intimate to them to command the particular Ministers to Preach in their parishes Doctrine tending to the advancement of those designes and this is so much obeyed that the Minister of the Kings family or Parish must sing the same song although it concerne the King in His Honour or in that is most deare to him and be to the prejudice of his Person Soveraignty and Government These {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} these prime men of God are attended and honored so by the subtle and cunning Nobles and Gentlemen that they are well nigh deified in their comming to and fro to Assemblies Presbyteries or upon other occasions the most eminent of the Province wait upon them entreat them to come to their Houses set them at the head of the Tables by my Lady provide for them the best chambers And that you may know howsoever they pretend Parity that it is protestatio contra factum never Bishop in Scotland hath come into Cities with such Convoyes been attended with such great personages as some of this holy Brotherhood It is to this day remembred that when Mr Robert Bruce came from his visitation in the West or South returning to Edenburgh and entring by the Canon-gate King Iames looking out at His Window in His palace at Halyrude House with indignation which extorted from him an Oath said Mr Robert Bruce I am sure intends to be King and declare himselfe heire to King Robert the Bruce If you would allow me upon this to digresse I beg to be bold to tell you a true story the most insolent I beleeve you ever read or heard When Q. Elizabeth was waxed old K. Iames bethinking how to come at the peaceable possession of that Right God and nature had entitled him to after her death resolving to recall pardon the Earles of Angus Huntlie and Erroll who at that time were banished and beyond Seas feared if by himselfe and his Soveraignty he should doe it because they were professed Papists he feared the Church would except against it and move his Subjects to Sedition and Rebellion yet the Noble men were most able to strengthen him and doe him best service in the Kingdom To prevent this mischiefe he sent one of his trusted and worthie Courtiers to Mr Robert Bruce one of the Ministers of Edenburgh who at that time had great sway in the Church desiring him to come to His Majesty about some businesse of high concernment Mr Robert did come The good admirable King welcomed him more then courteously took him into his Retiring or Bed-chamber Spoke powerfully to this sense M. Robert I have sent for you to have your advice in a businesse of great weight concerning the Peace of Scotland and England and which concernes me in Right and Honour most nearly Q. Elizabeth my Sister and Cousin is sick and cannot live long you know I have God's and Nature's Right to that Crowne I cannot loose it in Honour or in Iustice and yet my prayer to God is that I may come at my Right without any blood I know there is some Faction in England against me but my friends are more prevalent there It concerneth me in the poynt of Prudence to provide that there be no Faction and division in this my Kingdom of Scotland for if this Kingdome be all one way for me in hearty obedience and Subjection the disaffected party in England will be better advised then to worke me trouble to their great disadvantage Now saith the best and wisest of Kings I feare nothing but that these three Noble men beyond Seas because of their forfeiture may be wrought upon by Papists encouraged and enabled by them there and the English Papists who are most against my comming to the Crowne of England knowing I am a sound Protestant to come hither and trouble Me and the Peace of this Kingdom Doe you not think it fit that I give them a pardon restore them to their Honour and Lands and by so doing so gain them that thus I may save the effusion of Christian blood To this demand so piously made the answer was Sir you may pardon Angus and Arroll and recall them but it is not fit nor will you ever obtain my consent to pardon or recall Huntlie To this the most gratious King sweetly replied Mr Robert it were better for me to pardon and recall him and not the other two then the other two without him 1. First because you know he hath a greater command and is more powerfull then both of them 2. Next you know I am more assured of his affection to me for he hath married my deare and neare Kinswoman the Duke of Lenox his Sister His rejoynder was Sir I cannot agree to it The King out of the great depth of His wisdome and prudence and His transcendent goodnesse concluded thus M. Robert I have imparted my most secret thoughts to you first before any and to you only I am so confident of your zeale and good affection to Me and My Honour that I entreat you to think upon this matter a day or two and after your better thoughts and Prayers returne to me and tell me clearly what you think Thus was he dismissed with as much respect as the King could give to any of His highest Subjects The truth is at this time this man had more power in Edenburgh then the King and his credit there had a mighty influence upon all His Sect and many in the Kingdom within a day or two he Returnes to His Majesty yet if I be informed right not till he was called upon When he entred the Kings Presence-chamber the King took him in to a secret retiring roome as before made the doore be shut and speaketh to this sense Now M. Robert I hope you have thought more seriously upon that weighty businesse I proposed to you the last day and have prayed God to direct you and Me both tell me then what you think of my purpose and resolution concerning those three Noblemen He returneth this answer Sir the more I think of it the more I am confirmed in the advice I gave to you the last day I agree with all my heart that you recall Angus and Arroll but for Huntlie it cannot be The King resumed

Ambassodors The Magistrats of Edenburgh proudly contemne the command of the supream spirituall powers and out of carnall affection feast the King the French Ambassadors Royally Nobly on Monday when the Ministers the good Christians of Edenburgh fast the King the Ambassadors and Magistrates of Edenburgh feast ô facinus horrendum But to avert Gods judgement from the Land the Major and Aldermen were cited and convented here was some favour that the King and Ambassadors were not but I will tell you it was partiality and corruption for some of the Ministers were the Kings Pensioners and this kept the King free to be censured for their high Scandall in contemning so solemne a Fast There was much work but the King who was the chiefe and almost sole transgressor with interposed delayes and much sollicitation and prudence took off the edge of their zeale and the pursuit ceased 4. That this Assembly is Soveraigne in all Spiritualls admits no Coordinate or Coequall power farre lesse a superior is cleer in this That if any Preacher be charged before King or Councell for any offence to be punished if they in any case can cloath it with a spirituall respect or circumstantiate it so that it may be qualified for the Spirltuall High Sanhedrim the party cited and convented may and ought to appeale to the Generall Assembly as to the Iudge competent Mr Andrew Melvil if I be not deceived was the first Spirituall Councellor of Law that taught this way It is certain that what they Preach in Pulpit is not censurable by King Parliament nor Councell or any Iudge or Iudicatory else There be two reasons for it one is that Spiritus Prophetarum subjecti prophetis the spirit of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets onely 1. Cor. 14. the t'other is whilst men are there in that infallible pulpit they are ruled by some superior good spirit and they dare not blame or condemne them least they should offend and sinne against the Spirit and so although a man Preach downright Treason if it be in this place he is priviledged It is known and I hope yet remembred that after King Iames of blessed memory anno 1584. made many good Lawes to curbe the Insolency of Ministers did by Statute and Act of Parliament declare His Supremacy over Ecclesiasticall Persons and causes condemne all Iudicatories in use which were not by his own authority established He meaned the Presbyteriall That the Ministers then did importune the King to repeale them and when that would not doe did they not fall at last into open railing against him in pulpit as an enemy to Christ and his Kingdom they dispersed through the Kingdom infamous libells against his Person and Royall Honour they branded him as an Apostate from the truth and reviled him as an ofspring of the cruell and bloody house of Guise This forced the King to put out a Declaration anno 1585. in Print yet extant to vindicate himselfe and his Honour from that unchristian and more then disloyall calumnies At or about the very same time some fugitive Ministers out of Scotland pretending they were persecuted did in the Pulpits of London with their fowle mouths raile against His Majesty the wisest and learnedst of Kings so that the Scottish Ambassador was forced to complaine to Queen Elizabeth of it Her Majesty gave present order to the Lord Bishop of London then to silence all the Scottish Preachersthere Now that this Sanhedrim is only competent Iudge in Spiritualibus and that one convented before King and Councell may decline his and the Councel's authority although he hath Preached Treason appeareth cleerly 1. First if this had not been an ordinary practice before this time what needeth the making of that Act of Parliament anno 1584. declaring it Treason in all time to come to decline the Power and Iurisdiction of the King and His Councell 2. Secondly has not Iames Gibsonne Minister at Pencaitland witnessed for or against himselfe rather in this case in Print who publiquely in his Preachings compared His Majesty unto Ieroboam told him He should be the last of His Race reproached him as a Persecutor and much more of this zealous stuffe who being convented before the King and Councell and accused of those pious crimes He with that boldnesse becometh His Order justified all saying to His Majesty As long as you maintain these cursed acts of 1584. the tyranny of Bishops you are a Persecutor And addes that as Jeroboam for the leading of the people of Israell from the Lawes of the house of Iudah and from the true worship of God was rooted out he and all his posterity so should the King if He continued in that wicked course maintaining those wicked acts against God be rooted out and conclude the race much more to the like purpose was said if any look upon the Privy Councell Books of the Kingdom of Scotland he will find this a truth He was convented 27. December anno 1585. This man was an Oracle consulted and gave his answer in Coppinger Arthington and Hacket's extraordinary motion which storie you know better then I. Mr Black Minister of St Andrew's was convented too before the King and Councell about the same time who appealed from King and Councell to the Presbytery or Generall Assembly this last had spoken against both King and Queen There was a great businesse for the two mens appeales their brethren sided so much with them that the King had too much to doe At last out of more then warrantable indulgence His Majesty was content to insist no farther against them before His Councell but to remit their censure to the Generall Assembly it selfe before which it was cleerly proved that in pulpit they had spoken reproachfull and Treasonable speeches yet could the King by no power or entreaty obtain of them to inflict any punishment upon them because said they They knew not with what Spirit they were overruled I will shut up this poynt with one instance more then sufficient to make the truth of what I say to appeare Before King Iames came to the Crowne of England it was ordinary in Scotland to have a Generall Assembly once a yeare and oftner pro re natâ upon any great exigent The last which was kept during His Majesties abode there was Anno 1602. in the close of which the next ensuing was appoynted to be at Aberdine Anno 1603. in the interim the King succeeding to Q. Elizabeth and being in England He was so much taken up with the affaires of the Kingdom that He was necessitated to lay aside those concerned Scotland and for this reason His Majesty thought it fit to adjourne the Assembly unto which he had a speciall eye knowing their turbulent disposition and experienced in it whilest he was present amongst them to the next Summer in Anno 1604. When the time appoynted was come His Majesties more weighty affaires not suffering him to think upon the Assemblies businesse He gave

and repeated his reasons before mentioned and added some more He obstinately opposed and contradicted it All doe know who knew any thing of these times that Angus and Arroll were as bigot Papists if not more then Huntlie there was no difference in Religion the truth is Master Bruce was a Lover of the Earle of Argyle who loved not much the Earle of Huntlie This was the Spirit inspired him as it seemeth King Iames desired his reasons he gave none but spoke Majestically Then the King told him downeright M. Robert I have told you my purpose you see how nearely and highly it concerneth me I have given you my reasons for my resolution you give me your opinion but you strengthen it not with reason wherefore I will hold my own resolution and doe as I first spoke to you To the which with Christian and Subject-like reverence he returned this reply well Sir you may doe as you list but chuse you yee shall not have me and the Earle of Huntlie both for you Sir Iudge by this in what case Monarchie is in such a government for that this is truth I am as much assured of as morall certainty can assure any man of morall truth which with his own eares he hath not heard And yet this man was but Minister of Edenburgh To returne thither from whence we digressed that you may know that this great Honour which is done to those great ones the Cabinet Councell of all Provinciall and Generall Assemblies by these cunning and subtile Nobles and others is not done in the name of a Disciple in the name of a Prophet reflect a little with your eyes and consider how the same men respect and entertain their own Parish Minister when the Gamaliels sits by my Lady the Parish Priest will be below the Candlestick and will be forced to come to his Lord or Laird and Crouch down for a morsell of Bread and small peece of Money Nay before the Gamaliel be gone he must prompt and Catechise the poor stipendiarie how to carry himselfe with the Lord and Laird not to exact too rigorously what is due in his competent Stipend nor in Preaching doctrine or discipline to offend the Lord or Laird such good Christians such Iehoshua's Nehemia's and Esdras's are to be much made of for the cause of God I dare to say never Bishop or Archbishop in England or Scotland hath used more authority nor did ever carry themselves so arrogantly towards the meanest of their Clergy as these men doe over their simpler brethren I come now at last to The Generall Assembly THis is the Great and High Sanhedrim the last resolution of faith is almost in this associate body Here Christ sits in the Highest glory and Dignity he can upon earth Here is the ultimate decision of all controversies Here you may find really that fancied infallibility of the Pope The Iurisdiction in this is universall in all concerneth Ecclesiastica Ecclesiasticos and what concerneth all Temporalia in ordine ad Spiritualia The authority of it is soveraigne independent from any derived to them by trust immediatly from Christ to him alone they are accountable Whosoever obeyeth not this Soveraignty is to be Excommunicate the Magistrate is at their Command and as they prescribe to punish in Estate in Body in Life and Death If the King obey not He is to be Excommunicated and to strengthen this the Nobility Gentry Collective body nay euery individuall person is to concurre to compell and censure him to the utmost of his power to punish to dethrone to un-King to kill c. Let us come and see how this goodly Iudicatorie is made up It is composed 1. First of the Commissioners sent from all the Presbyteries of the Kingdom Which as I heare and am informed is thus ordered Every Presbytery sendeth out two Preaching Elders and a Lay-Elder By this it seemeth that the Clergy hath the advantage 2. Secondly therefore consider that besides the Commissioners from Presbyteries there cometh from every Borrow and Corporation one Commissioner and Edenburgh for some spirituall prerogative no doubt is honoured and priviledged to send two 3. Thirdly the Vniversities and Colledges send their Commissioners which for the most part are not Doctors nor Ministers but Lay-Men and Graduates in Liberall Arts and Sciences This will goe neare to equall the number of Lay-Commissioners to that of Preaching Ministers 4 The King is a member constituent to and should be there either personally by himselfe or virtually and representatively in or by his Commissioner He hath one voyce too and that affirmative only In what Capacity they admit the King to be a member constituent of this Spirituall Court I know not well if they be agreed upon it Some hold that he is there as Princeps membrum By this I see he is the first gentleman there and it may be hath the right hand too Some say as a Representative of the Civill body of the Kingdome sits there in that capacity All of them agree in this that he is bound by his own presence or Commissioners to see and provide that no disturbance or violence be offered The King if present and His Commissioner if absent have so much honour indulged to him that He or His Commissioner may have foure five or six assistants for advice but these Synodicall Fathers give their indulgences with such circumspect prudence that to preserve Christ's honour and their owne entire the King or His Commissioner may debate and advise with His Councell or Assistants or desire any of them to speak while matters are in debating But when it commeth to the decision and determination by voyces and plurality of voyces maketh the decree the King has onely one voyce and that affirmative onely not Negative By this it is certaine that if the greater part of voyces determine contrary to the King's voyce nay to His mind and Conscience He is bound to put it in Execution for Potestas Iuris is radically in the whole Assembly the King hath no more but Potestatem Facti to be an Executioner Rei Iudicata of the decrees otherwise He is censurable and if He be obstinately refractory He is not worthy to hold His Crowne The King presides too as they confesse but so that it is onely civilly and in His civill capacity If I be not mistaken yet I dare not avouch this confidently the King hath not Power to propose any thing spirituall or that concerneth the Church but if He doe it it must be done by the Right Father of the Assembly the Moderator This I dare to say that neither the King nor His Commissioner can hinder or oppose the proposing of any thing they think concerneth the Kingdome of Iesus Christ For this were no free generall Assembly and to limit the holy one of Israell Nay if the thing proposed conceived by them to be Spirituall be so twisted with the things civill that the ordering or

After the arising of the commotion to prevent more tumult and danger and when Service and Sermon were done the Bishops Major and Aldermen going home with the Lord Chancellor and some BB. attending his Grace the Bishop and Deane of Edenburgh with others were well nigh stoned in the streets when I say it was demanded of these Apostles why they did not condemne this unchristian Barbarous outrage voyd of Pietie and Reason and without any example in the Christian Church the summe of their answer was and to this day is that such a zealous people were to be left to their own warrand they knew not by what Spirit they were governed God worketh great workes many times by basest means and yet those Nobles those zealous those intelligent and knowing Christians whereof many of them in Edenburgh were knowne Coale-stealers and Whores were the first active instruments in this glorious reformation I confesse this Divinity is so transcendent and Metaphysicall that it exceeds my capacity and is so fruitfull upon any occasion to work all or the greatest of mischiefes that I doe not see how it can consist with peace or safety of King Kingdome Church or of any entrusted with greatest trust in Church or State Sir I believe any rationall man may see by this how superlatively this spirituall Signorie is above King and Royall Soveraignty I leave it to your own judgement and memory to recollect it and to bring home the conclusion that this government Ecclesiasticall is inconsistent with Monarchie with the Peace of a Kingdome and is or may be in time a Mother and Nurse of as much Rebellion and Treason as any Iesuitisme of the Highest dye if not more Certainly Rome although a Whore and hath a cup of abomination in her hand is not so bad nor so abominable I pray God to keep all good Christians cleane of both Let us goe on In Faith Worship and all spirituall things they vindicate to themselves such a Soveraignty that King Councell Parliament nay all together must not touch the Scepter of Christ they are to determine define take cognisance accuse sentence punish neither King nor King and Councell nor King and Parliament all must assume power here for otherwise it is to intrude upon Christ and his Right This Soveraignty is of so high a straine so large an extent that when they have decreed any thing in this supream infallible Iudicatorie that they may have the better obedience to demand the King and Parliament's approbation This is not demanded as a thing arbitrary which the King and Parliament may doe or not doe or leaving it to His Royall judgement with the advice of His Parliament to qualify or rectify their decrees and orders No no truly that is to betray the trust Christ hath given them they need not supplicate or Petition for it it is in them but an act of courtesie to shew dutifull obedience And if the King and Parliament will not grant it they are armed with as much power from Heaven as to force them to doe it by Excommunication and making all good Christians joyne with them in God's cause Sir I feare you think I speake Liberally God forbid I should doe it I doubt not but you have read the Scotish Pope's Sermon Preached at Westminster and Printed by Order of the House since you have it I will not spend time and Paper to cite his Words which giveth to the King no more But to make this appeare I give you some unanswerable reasons 1. It is certain in Scotland M. Knox and his complices set on their reformation without the Queen or Queen Regents authority or the authority of Parliament For anno 1558. they made their confederacy gave out their Orders for Reformation throughout the whole Kingdome anno 1559. they acted their Reformation by casting downe Churches Abbyes c. casting out Priests Friers c. and all this by their owne radicall and originall power Queen Mary their true and lawfull Soveraigne did authorize them in nothing she was then in France The Queen Dowager Queen Regent King Iames the fifth's Widdow having the Soveraignty by fiduciary trust in regard of the absence of the Queen her daughter did not authorize it nay she did by her authority oppose it contradict it came in Armes against it The Parliament was not till the yeare 1560. how holden for the present I cannot tell but in that Parliament they set out a confession of faith reformed Religion but when they sent to King and Queen beyond Seas Queen Mary was then Married to Francis the second in France to confirme or ratifie the acts thereof they denied When intelligence was given to the Confederates they professed they little regarded the deniall of King and Queene for say they Knox Hist. pag. 500. all we did was rather to shew our dutifull obedience then to begge of them any strength to our Religion Another in this kind you have In Anno 1571. King Iames then being King and the Earle of Marre being Regent an Assembly was holden at Leith where by the Order of the Assembly and Ordinance of the Regent and Councell some Commissioners were appointed from the Regent and Councell and some from the generall Assembly to condescend upon a platforme of discipline which was agreed to on both sides The platforme is that the Government of the Church shall be by Archbishops Bishops Deanes and Chapters c. the order and course of all their Nomination Election c. is just conforme to this in England at this day and as it was in Scotland before this new happy Reformation This was enrolled in the Councell Books of that Kingdom and stands there to this day this I know certainly and if I be not deceived and almost I dare say it except they have wronged their most famous and their most ancient Councells the platforme is upon Record in the Generall Assembly Books Give me leave to tell you by the way one thing that the Negative Faith which is sine rugâ sine maculâ was framed anno 1580. and it is believed that in that Negative faith Episcopacy is abjured as Antichristian yet anno 1581. this same Government is renewed ratified and ordained to continue constant and not to be changed till His Majesty come to perfect age and to be kept or changed then onely in what He and His great Councell the Parliament shall think fit and not otherwise Before this the King His Houshold and Councell had subscribed the Negative Faith can any man not voyd of judgement and discretion think that the King His Houshold and Councell in subscribing it did judge Episcopacy Popish and Antichristian Next it is worth your notice taking that as I honour the good parts which were in Knox and his fellow-labourers I never accounted them as Apostles men secured from error yet I will say so much for their justification that they were greater Enemies to Sacriledge than their after-disciples and were not against the