that the King and those about him did say that the Archbishop had styrred vp the K. of Fraunce and the Earle of Flanders against them and that this was held by them for most certayne vppon diuers euidences But what these euidences were none of them do set down So that heere is no condemnation at all from the Card themselues but only that they relate what the King and his part sayd and yet yow must note that S. Francis besydes other euil translation of the words hath wilfully corrupted the last clause of all to make it seeme as though it proceeded from the Card. iudgment to wit Quadrileg de vita B. Thom. lib. 5. cap. venientes as is by diuers euidences most certayn wheras in latyn after the first words Asserebat Rex sucrum pars c. The king with the greater part of his affirmed that the Archbishop had done this c. yt followeth Sicut sibi pro ceâ—to constabat euidâ—ntibus apparebat indicijs as to them it was held for certayne and appeared by euident signes Out of which woords S. F. of purpose cutteth of both sibi and indicijs False dealing of Syr Francis to them signes For that by the first yt was euident that this was spoken in the name of the King and his frends and not of the Card. and by the second appeareth that the euidence which the King and his had of this matter and accusation was founded only in signes and coniectures which being euident to our K â— he did not only stryke out the sayd words but maketh also a seuere inference vpon the rest that are left mangled by him self as yow haue seene his inference is this Pag. Ibid. Now sayth he for a subiect to styrre vp forrein states to make warre vpon his soueraygne and countrey was at all tymes high treason but that Becket did so by the Card confession was by diuers euidences most certayne Therfore Becket not now his enemies but his brethren the sonnes of his owne mother being iudges was a traytor Lo heer the inuincible argument of our learned knight yf any man can trust him hereafter vpon his woords I shal much maruaile seing him so shamelesse in a matter so euideÌ„t For who discouereth not the impudency of his second proposition when he sayeth that Becket did so by the Card. confession whâ—ras the Card. confesse no such thing but only say that the king and his people did affirme it nether did the Card. say as our K t. falsly chargeth them that the matter was certayne to them by diuers euidences but only that the king sayd yt was certayn or seemed so to him by diuers euident signes and coniectures Shamefully then hath our K t. abused the authority of these Card. as he doth comonly all authors that come through his haÌ„ds And with this I end this controuersy of S. Thomas his cause with the King which cause whatsoeuer the K t. tatleth to the coÌ„trary yet was yt neuer accouÌ„pted treason or named so by any author that wrote in that tyme eyther frend or foe nor shal S. F. be able to alleadge me any one instance to the contrary before Luthers dayes And as for the King himself though he pursued him eagerly for that he would not yeild to his desyre touching Eccles. iurisdiction yet neuer is it read that he euer called or couÌ„pted him for a traytor nor any forrayne Prince whatsoeuer And within 8. yeares after his death as before I noted both he and Lewes the K. of Fraunce went in Pilgrimage to his tombe at Canterbury which is lykely they would not haue done nether the one nor the other yf they had reputed him for a traytor Iohn Stow putteth downe the relation thus The 27. of August both the Kings came to Canterbury Stovv anno Domini 1179 reg Hent 21. 25. where they were with due honor receaued c. Lewes K. of France offered vpon the tombe and to the shryne of Thomas Becket a riche cup of gold he gaue also that renowned pretious stone that was called the regal of France which K. Henry the 8. put afterwards in a ring wore yt on his thombe c. Thus saith Stow out of other authors And whether king Lewes of France would haue taken a iorney into England to the shryne of a man that he knew and had talked withal few yeares before and would haue offered such pretious gyfts yf he had suspected him for a traytor or that his miracles had byn faynd as after Sir F. affirmeth and whether king Henry himself being no way forced therunto wold haue accompained him in such an action to his owne disgrace who commonly was reputed to haue byn the cause of his death yf he had held him for a traytor let euery man iudge And so we shal passe from his point to another about his miracles wherin the cauillers shew themselues more vayne conscienslesse and malitious yf it may be then in the former OF S. THOMAS HIS myracles and what may be thought of them and other such lyke with the malitious corruption and falshood vsed by Iohn Fox and S. F. to discredit them There is handled also the different manner of Canonising sainctes in their and our Churche CAP. XI AMONG many other arguments that I vsed in the VVardword for the holynes of this Archbishop to all which this VVastword answereth no one word at all I said also that many miracles haue byn recorded by graue authors and publike testimony of the whole Iland 〈◊〉 3. and of forraine wryters to haue byn wrought by God at his sepulcher and otherwise by his intercession in witnes of his sanctity Vpon which words Syr F. taketh occasion with his heretical spirit of incredulity to iest and blaspheme at all miracles of Pope-made Saints for that is his coÌ„tumelious terme but with what reason truth prudeÌ„ce or piety we shal somwhat here examine by this occasion noting first two poynts to this purpose The first that the miracles of S. Thomas doÌ„ne presently after his death had a circuÌ„staÌ„ce annexed vnto them Tvvo especial confiderations in the miracles of S. Thom. which greatly confirmeth their certainty to wit that they brought with them the publike reproof of one of the greatest kings that day in Christendome if not the greatest of all which was king Henry the second by whose fault he was put to death who laboured with all his power for auoyding that infamy eyther to suppresse or improue the miracles that fel out And who knoweth not what the force and fauour of such a Prince may do in such a cause and yet was the multitude and euidency of S. Thom. his miracles such as they brake through all obstacles that the king could put against them and so conquered himself also as he finally yeilded and went to his sepulcher wept did pennance as by all authors is euident This then is the first poynt of consideration in this affayre
Angels or no Cap. 6. num 6. num 8. Whether the name of Lucifugi scripturarum or scripture-battes vsed by Tertullian do properly agree to protestants or Catholyks Cap. 6. num 24.25.26 c. Whether ignorance be held by Catholyks to be the mother of deuotion Cap. 7. num 1.2 c. Whether ignorance in some points coÌ„cerning religion may in some people be comendable and meritorious as S. Hilary saith or no ibid cap. 8. num 3. Whether the distinction of fides implicita and explicita be a true necessary distinction for the saluation of many mennes soules which caÌ„not possibly be saued wiâ—hout the vse thereof Cap 7. num 6. Whether it be true that Catholyks teach that laymen must not medle in matters of Religion and how farre they are to medle Cap. â— Why the Cath. Churche doth vse Index expurgatorius against the corruption of heretyks and their books how it must be vsed and what great good ensueth therof Cap. 9. num 23.24 c. Whether S. Thomas of Canterbury were a true martyr and of his miracles Cap. 10. 11. Whether his case were lyke the case of S. Iohn Bapt. with his King or of S. Ambrose with his Emperor or no Cap. 10. Whether the miracles wrought by S. Thomas of Canterbury after his death were true miracles and did proue him a Saint or no. Cap. 11. Which is the better spirit and more conforme to scripture and the old fathers to beleeue easily miracles or to discredit them cap. 11. num 19. How true saints may be knowen and whether Fox-made saincts or Pope-made Saints as S.F. calleth them are more substantially Canonized Cap. 11. num 15.16 c. Whether Catholyks do hold that the Pope or any comming from him is to be obeyed though he commauÌ„d blasphemies Cap. 12. 13. Whether the merits and sufferings of Saints may be lawfully mentioned in our prayers as motiues to mooue God with all Cap. 12. Whether no man may say to the Pope vvhy do yovv so though he lead infinite soules to hel as O. E. cauilleth Cap. 13. num 17.18 c. Whether Catholyks do vse the Popes pardons for their cheefest remedies against all sort of sinnes as heretyks do accuse them Cap. 14. In what degree or sense pardons are auaileable to Christians ibid. num 8. cap. 15. num 1.2.3 c. Whether Iames Clement that slue the last K. of France were absolued for the fact before the committing therof Cap. 15. Whether it be true that K. Iohn of England was poysoned by a monk or that the monk was absolued for the same before he comitted the fact as Iohn Fox and S.F. do hold cap. 15. num 4.5 c. Whether the doctrine of saluation by only faith be a common cartway to hel for all libertines or no cap. 16. The third and fourth Tables as wel of shiftes and wilful falsifications by Syr Francis and O. E. as of the principal matters conteyned in these two Encounters are to be seene in the end of the book AN ANSVVER TO A CERTAYNE VAYNE AND ARROGANT EPISTLE OF O. E. minister vnto N. D. author of the Ward-word SMall contentment geÌ„tle reader can any Christian modest man take that hauing to handle a graue serious cause seeth himselfe drawne or rather driuen from thesame to contention of wordes by the insolencie and importunitie of his quarrelling aduersarie 2. Tim. 2. which teÌ„deth to nothing as the Apostle also noteth but to the subuersion of the hearer and yet when we are forced to this disorder somwhat also must be sayd least silence in speach shew diffidence in truth and that a foole as the Scripture insinuateth if he be not answered in his folly begin to thinke himself wyse Prouerb 26. We haue signifyed before in our preface how a certayne contentious minister desyrous to be doing and to play a parte but yet not without a visard in respect of the follyes perhaps he was to vtter resolued to mask and cypher his name vnder the letters of O. E. and then hauing pervsed the reply of S. FraÌ„cis Hastings to the Ward-word and misliking as it seemeth the same as insufficient he bâ—ckled himselfe to make in his owne opinion a better defence though in other mens iudgment of two bad this is farre the worse both in respâ—ct of the substance of matters and controuersies handled wherof this man treateth no one groundedlie any where but only quarrelleth at the words and sentences of his aduersarie as also in regard of his outragious intemperate speach which runneth alâ—o oftentymes both to turpitude scurrilitie the reason wherof we thinke to be in parte for that the minister perswading himselfe to be masked presumeth to vtter any tâ—ing as vnknowne and I am content for this tyme to let him so passe though in deed his deportment be such against all kynd of Catholique men neuer so learned vertuous worshipful or honorable as no way he deserueth any such fauour and that I could dismaske him he may perceyue by diuers poynts which afterward I shal haue occasion to touch Now â—hen letting passe this we shal looke into the argument of this present Epistle of O.E. to N.D. which yow shal see to consist of three principal poynts Tâ—â—e poynts of â—his Epistle to wit notorious folly apparant falshood ridiculous vanitie in bragging vauÌ„ting let vs see them all in order This Epistle prefixed before his booke hath this inscription To N. D. alâ—as Noddie O. E. vvisheth knovvledge of truth c. and then beginneth he his Epistle thus Sir N.D. or Noddie or hovvsoeuer it shal please yovv to style your selfe being a man but of tvvo or three letters c. Heeâ—e yow see beginneth a graue contention betweene O. E. and N. D. about the worde Noddie which none but a Noddy in my opinion would euer haue brought into examination especially in print â—or that N. D. being but consonants and hauing no sound of their owne cannot make Noddie excâ—pt yow ad the sound of O.E. vnto them that are vowels to geue lyfe vnto the word wherof it foloweth that seing consonants are but the material parte of a worde and vowels the formal O. â— must needs be the formal Noddie and that N.D. doth but lend him a coople of consonants to make him a Noddie and thus much for the name it selfe But as for the nature and essence of a Noddie to which of the two it doth best agree shal appeare afterward in the discussion of matters throughout this whole combat and one poynt of a Noddie yow may presentlie perceaue in these verie words alleadged wheras O.E. obiected to N.D. that he is a man but of two or three letters which is answered sufficientlie by numbring onlie how many letters O. E. do make and so agayne afterward and verie often in his repliâ— he obiecteth to N. D. that he durst not put downe his name at length which yet himselfe being at home vpon his owne ground and among
posâ—tions some of them being driuen also to the hangâ—ng ward as wel as Catholykes by their brethren protestantes L. Martyn Marprelateâ— c. so as S. F. tale seemeth rather a râ—diculous iest then a serious narration But let vs go forward He cometh at length which perhaps he leueled at in his first wordes of this his epistle to censure my inteÌ„tion in pleading for toleratioÌ„ and especially for offering the vewe oâ— my book to the Lordes of her Ma â—â—e Counsel which offendeth him much and therfore he sayâ—h thus or me S F. Epist. Pag. 7. Notwithstandiâ—g all his fawning and crowching to the â—eâ—â—rable lor as in his â—emitter their wisdomes I doub not wil easily fynd out his subtyle Synoâ—s intentionâ— who sâ—ameth not with a brasen face to seek to bring in â—is brasen horse loaden wit armed calamityes for Englands ruine c. This whoâ—e matter is handled afterward both in the remitter it self and other places of the book where the K. besides this blast of brasen words hath no one argument in the world to reply or to prooue any calamity eyther armed or vnarmed to be likely to be brought in by this brasen horse as he wil needs tearme it of mittigatioÌ„ or toleration The imagined brasen horse nor answereth he any one letter or sillable to the many vtilityes and publike emoluments which there I shew to be pretended and intended therby nor doth he so much as go about to answere or remooue any one of the great hurts daungers damages and inconueniences which I declare in my first Encounter partly to haue byn receaued already partly dayly imminent by the course held of chaÌ„ge of religâ—on and rigorous maner of pursuing the same only the poore man sheweth to feare extreamly that yf any toleration of Catholike religion should be permitted then his Pandora as Irenaeus calleth heresy would fly or fal to the ground presently â—rem lib. 2. cap. 54 lib. 4 cap 2. Fear of toleration in the puritans Which feare of Sir Francis is notwithstanding most dishonorable to him and his sect and quite contrary to that which at the beginning they preached to the world affirming nothing to be more reasonable or coÌ„uenient then to suffer both religions to stand togeather as at this day in Germany France and other places where both sortes are found to be permitted for greater peace and concord of the common-wealthes And why then should our K. so much feare ruine therby to his religion in England except only for the causes before cyted Towards the end of his Epistle he hauing censured myne intention as before yow haue hard he setteth downe his owne very confidently in these words Being called as it were into the field by him Ibidem I haue aduentured vpon the height of his swelling pride and haue shaped him a plaine and sound answere to the material poyntes c. wherby I hope Christian Reader thow shalt fynd me cleared and free from the force and fury of his false imputations and byting blowes c. Heere for that he remitteth the matter to the Christian Reader I am very wel content to subscribe to the same remission who first of all must needes iudge for me condemne him in the very first words that he alleageth to wit that he was called into the field by me wheras his Watchword being the first chalenge that sounded the trompet of warre Manifest vntruthes impudently auoucâ—ed my answere but only a necessary ward thervnto as both the title subiect of my book declareth how can he so confidently tel so open and manifest an vntruth and withaâ—l remit the same to the iudgment of the Reader except he hold him without iudgment or conscience And heere I would aske how farre this is from impudency and yet according to the same sute do follow the rest that is to say of my swelling pride of his playne and sound answere shaped to all material poynts and that he is fully cleered from all imputations of falshood c. For yf my pride be no more swelling then his mishaped answere is sound and material I may thinke my selfe a very huÌ„ble man And yf in Westminster halle S. F. should be accused of treason or felony or other greiuous criminations as many Catholike Priests are vpon lesse occasion and should cleere and free himselfe no better therin then here he doth in this reply from imputations of falshood he might quickely expect both iudgment and execution and consequently himselfe be driueÌ„ to that hanging ward which heere he threateneth to driue vs vnto And lastly wheras he wryteth for the coÌ„clusion of his Epistle that this answere of his being ended and published which I held my selfe bound quoth he in duty to do for thy satisfyieng gentle Reader and my owne câ—edit his ful resoâ—utioÌ„ is not to toyle any more by contending with such rayling and wrangling spirites c. This resolution I say of the K. though it were neuer so ful and firme at that tyme as being weary perhaps of so difficult a worke yet I doubt that it wil be brokeÌ„ and he inforced to toyle yet further in the matter yf he wil satisfie the reader or mayntayne his owne credit which poore credit he wil find I beleeue so much crased in steed of amended by this his reply as yf it were somwhat shaken before by the Watchword it wil be quite ouerthrowne now by this his owne Wastword and the answere thervnto and yf before it were battered or beaten it wil now be vtterly broken and shiuered in peeces seing that much more falshood deceypt and other infirmityes are found discouered in this his supply then were in the first assault and yf he were troubled before in defending he wil be toyled now The proof wherof I leaue to the trial and combat following wherunto our K. sayth that he hasteneth like a corragious defendant taking his farewel of the Reader in these words To our God I commend thee gentle reader and wil now hasten to ioyne the combat with this proud Romanist The K. commendation and farevvel tâ—uching his Encounters seuerally Thus he saith and so endeth his Epistle And yf when he nameth our good God he meane the common God of heauen and earth and of other Christians his haste to the combat may chance to be more then his good speed seing that this God is God of truth and not of shifts and falshoods which are heare discouered and consequently is like to proue no great good God to S. F. cause that standeth theron as the sequeal of this combate yf I be not deceyued wil declare wherunto I also to meet the K. do make my repaire with no lesse haste though I hope with better speed then S â— F. Hastings OTHER OBSERVATIONS VPON THE PREFACE OF O. E. TO THE REAder conteyning a ful answere therunto AS I haue made before some annotations and obseruations vpon Sir FraÌ„cis Hastings Epistle to
verity then in forrayne churches for this is the gay deuised title of this first benediction I could be content Vnity among forraine Protestants that our knight could shew vs yf not vnity in veâ—ity which is impossible yet vnity at least in falsity among his professors so as some name of vnity might be among them for in verity which is but one the Protestants cannot possibly be at vnity being so deuided and repugnant among themselues as presently I shal shew In falsytie also it is very hard for them to hould vnion Tertul. praeâ—script contra haeres for that as Tertullian sayth mendacâ—um mendacio difficulter cohaeret onely doth hardly stand with another ly in peace and concord for which cause he sheweth that all heresyes lightly haue fallen at bickering among themselues but in none more hath this byn obserued then in the newe gospel of our tyme brought in by Luther Zwinglius Oecolampadius Carolstadius Caâ—uyn Melanthon Beza and others the head doctors of Syr F. externe churches in Germany France Suizerland and other places which haue byn lightes and lanternes to ours of England and their first doctors and as it were Apostles who yet were no sooner knowen to the world but that they fel at mortal debate and dissention among themselues and so continued all their liues sealing it also wâ—th their deathes as by their owne workes testimonyes historyes appeareth For first who knoweth not that Luther begining his doctrine in the yeare of our Lord 1517. and going forward with adding â—leidaÌ„ Surius Lauater alij in hist. altering chopping and changing for 7. yeares togeather before it could be made any certaine body of doctryne Luthers beginning and going forvvards consisting in it selfe it fel out that with-in those 7. first yeares to wit an 1524. three of Luthers cheefest schollers Andreas Carolstadius Ioannes Oecolampadius and Vldericus Zuinglius the first and last of the number Apostate priests the second a frier as Luther also had byn began the new sect of Sacramentaries quite opposite to Luther and within two yeares immediatly following the three named doctors Sacramentaries their deuisions profited so wel in new diuisions also among themselues as by Luthers owne testimony publikely giuen in a sermon after printed they were deuided into six seueral sects Luth. ser. de sacra Haga 〈◊〉 habit anno 1527. Yea the Lutheran preachers of Brema wryting not long after that againe to VVestphalus a great Superintendent in Saxony do soleÌ„nly auouch Concionat Bremens Ep. de Eucharist ad VVestphalum that there was inâ—â—nita penè opinionum apud Sacramentarios varietas an infinite variety of opinioÌ„s amongst the SacrameÌ„taries that denyed the Real presence in the Sacrament And did this dissention euer end think yow amongst these fellowes Genebr Suâ—ius hoc an No truly but rather encreased dayly euen vnto their deathes and after also for out of Luthers doctryne besides these Sacramentaries there arose in like maner the Anabaptists Sectaries sprong from Luther Svvinglius and Caluin anno 1527. as themselues glory taking occasion by his Epistle ad VValdenses where he sayth That it is better to leaue of baptisme altogeather then to baptise children that haue no fayth Whervpon they left of baptisme of infants and went forward in the rest of their heresyes euen against Luther himselfe at the last After this there sprong vp also out of the same sect of Luther the potent diuision of molles and rigidi Lutherani which endure with open emnity to this day as their bookes do testifie Rigid and soft LutheraÌ„s VVestphalus Illiricus and others of highe Saxony being the heads of the rigid faction who resemble our puritans in EnglaÌ„d that would haue nothing but Caluins pure prescription as these men would Luthers but on the other side Melanchton and his folowers founders of the softer partie would folow Luther by discretion taking so much as â—â—rued for their purpose and no more where vnto also do draw neere our Parlament Protestants in England as yow know who receaue Caluin with the limitations and restrictions which they thinke best that is nothing at all of his ecclesiastical plot of gouernment nor diuers poynts of his doctrine And thus much of Luthers owne sect But out of that of Vldericus Zuinglius father of the Sacramentaries issued other children not much different from the former for their dissention and disobedience both to father and mother Caluin Seruetus Valent Gentils to wit Iohn Caluin and Theodore Beza and from these againe departed into another faction other good fellowes as Michel Seruetus Vid. lib. Caluini de Act. Seruet libel Geneuae editum de act Valentin Iohn Caluins coleage whome they afterward burned at Geneua for denying the blessed Trinity and Valentinus Gentilis a new Arrian whose followers yet remayne though himselfe was burned also by other Protestants at Argentine With these ioyned Ioannes Paulus Alciatus Gribaldus and others which made afterward the sect of new Arrians and Trinitarians that yet remayne in Germany Poland and especially in Transiluania as their bookes do shew All these and many others not only Sectaryes but Arch-heretikes and heades of new sectes haue sprong vp out of the new gospel with-in these fourskore yeares and haue framed Churches and conuenticles to themselues in diuers contreyes all opposite and repugnant one to another and themselues also deuided amoÌ„gst themselues though at the bâ—â—ginning all proceeded of one only diuision from Catholike vnion raysed by Luther So as we Catholikes may wel insult and rightly say of them as S. Augustine said to Parmenian Aug. contra Parm. lib. 1. cap 4. multa frusta de isto frasto per totam Africam facta sunt sic sic necesse est vt minutatim secti conscissique dispereant qui tumorem animositatis suae sanctissimo Catholicae pacis vinculo praetulerunt Many peeces are already made throughout Africa of this one peece or diuision wherwith yow began so so is it necessary that they should perish by diuision and renting into most smal peeces who haue preferred the pride or swelling of their owne animosity before the most holy band of Catholike peace and vnitie Thus saith this holy Father neither is there any hope or meane to reconcile these parties togeather as in the Ward-word I affirmed here wil prooue for that the scriptures which are the only pretented meanes admitted by them No meanes of vnion amongst Protestantes see of this morâ— infra cap. 14. 15. euery party pleadeth for himselfe with such obstinacy in his owne sense as no iudge being acknowledged it is vnpossible to come to any determination And as for Synodes councels wheron old fathers rested much for decision of controuersies these men laugh at them thoughe yet at last pressed by necessity and much wearied with continual wrangling about scriptures diuers sects of our tymes for all it is impossible to draw togeather haue byn forced
our selues and so vsing these shiftes in euerie place matter sentence and almost periode and lyne which he alleageth of myne yow may ghesse to what bulke it may aryse in the whole worke and what certayntie the reader may haue of any thing that is alleaged by him and that these false laddes by these corruptions and shiftes do indeauour not to establish any trueth at all but to fil all with dowtes and diffidence and so much of this beere for that afterwards occasion wil be offred to returne to some of this treatise agayne Now then let vs passe on to the remnant of S r. F. Blessings OF THE SECOND AND third blessings which are reading of scriptures and publike seruice in English CAP. VIII HOw trew the former first blessing hath bene of vnitie in veritie we haue sufficientlie I think declared Conditions of true blessings Now folow the other nine about which we must remember that which before hath byn touched to wit that to proue them peculiar and special blessings of Protestants it must be shewed that they were not among Catholikes before and theÌ„ also that they are matters of such weight and moment as they do or may deserue the name of blessings and yet further that they are trulie found in deed in Protestants doctryne and not feigned or supposed by our knights only fancie or imagination and lastlie that they are general and vniuersal to the whole Churche of Protestantes and so according to these fower conditions and circumstances of true blissings we shal examine the rancke of them that do ensue in this chapter some 2. or 3. of them seuerallie Wherfore to come to the matter he sayth that his second blessing is The second blessing about reading scriptures in English that the scriptures are now in English for euery man and womaÌ„ to read c. This blessing say I hath not the â—ormer conditions required for first it is not general to all seing that such as vnderstood the latyn toÌ„gue before receyue no blessing herby nor yet those that had licence before vnder the Catholikes from their ordinaries and pastors for that was alwayes permitted as the world knoweth to read scriptures in the English tongue haue receyued any blessing therby so that this benediction must needs be restrayned to those people alone that being simple and ignorant of the latyn tongue were accompted before by their pastors and Prelates vnfit to profit by such reading of scriptures at their pleasure in their vulgar tongue but rather had need to be instructed otherwise and to haue so much scripture deliuered to them by other meanes of cathechismes homiles preachings and such like instructions as they were capable of without laying opeÌ„ to them the whole corps of scriptures to conster and misconster as their fancies should aford them This was the censure and iudgement of the Catholike Churche before Protestants arose which course our knight calleth darknes anâ— blyndnes and the contrarie course of permitting scriptures to all without distinctioÌ„ he 〈◊〉 needs haue to be a singuler blessing broughâ— in by his men Of diuers that perished by reading â—criptures in vulgar Languages but yet I would aske him whaâ— blessing it was to such as fel into heresies anâ— perished therby that of liklihood would noâ— haue happened vnto them yf that libertie freedome of reading scriptures in English haâ— not byn permitted And I gaue for example of this in the wardâ—word an instance of one Ioane Bourcher aliaâ— knel in king Edwards dayes Stovv anno 1549 Edovvardi 6. reg anno 3. who being a simple woman but yet heady and wilful by reading scriptures in English learned to hold and defend that Christ had not takan flesh of his mother the Virgyn In like manner I aske was it a blessing to the tanner of Colchester her copsmate Stovv Ibid. who picked out of reading scriptures that Baptisme was worth nothing so held to his death affirming that he could defend the same by playne and euident scriptures so as neyther Cranmer Archbishop of Canterburie nor the rest of the Protestants in those dayes who had taught them to read scriptures could conquere or coÌ„uert them by scriptures but were fayne to burne them with fyre for the good effect proceeding of this their owne blessing if it be a blessing wherby all are permitted and inuited to read scriptures in English George Paris also a simple duitchman was burned by the said Archbishop in the same kings raigne Stovv Holinsead Ibid. for houlding that Christ was not equal to his Father which he auouched to haue learned out of the sacred bible that he had studyed in his owne language and could not be dryuen from it by any disputatioÌ„ of Cranmer Rydley or any other our English ministers but only by the fyre which at length they vsed to conuert him into ashes In this Queenes dayes also at the verie beginning when scriptures were first published in English Stovv anno 1561. Reg 3. Elizab. William Geffrey and Iohn More did read so earnestlie and interprete so soundlie as they learned to hold and affirme that Christ was not in heauen were whipped publikelie for the same vntil they confessed the contrarie so as the reading scriptures in English was no blessing to these men but onlie a blessing with a whip as yow wil confesse In the 17. yeare also of her Maiesties raigne when 27. Anabaptists vulgar people were apprehended togither Stovv an 1575. 1576. and punished in London by order of the L. Mathew Parker of Canterburie for denying Christ to haue taken flesh and other such opinions and two of them burned in Smythfeild and fiue others of the familie of loue brought in publike pennance at Paules crosse for heresies who all auouched notwithstanding that they had drawne their newe doctryne out of the reading of scriptures in the vulgar tongue what blessing I pray yow was this to theÌ„ or to such other as haue fallen into other sectes since that tyme both of Brownisme Puritanisme other fancyes condemned by the Protestants themselues detested by the present state of EnglaÌ„d which yet they had neuer done by all likelihood if this publike reading of scriptures without restraint or due moderation had not byn permitted to the ignorant Systers of London in the suruey of dangâ—erous positions Those busy sisters of London also and other citties wherof the late protestaÌ„t wryters do so much complayne in their books against Puritanes who gad vp downe with English bibles vnder their armes and wil defend any thing against any man out of scriptures would not so much haue troubled eyther themselues their husbands or the common wealth if this blessing had not byn permitted to them or if it may be accompted a blessing and not a cursing that maketh both them and other ignorant people so mad and franticke in heresie So as now it is to be considered whether the blessing of Catholikes be greater among
lib. 2. de diuini efficijs Isydorus a Spanyard testifieth for Spayne almost a thousand yeares past that the Churche seruice in his tyme was there in Latyn Conc. 4. Tolet cap. 2.11.13.14 And the fourth councel of Tolet about thesame tyme testifieth the same And for FraÌ„ce testifieth thesame our great learned Englishman Alcuinus M. Alcuin li. de diu offic of Charles the great about the yeare of Christ 840. Bede lib. 1. hist. Angl. cap. 1. And for EnglaÌ„d testifieth Beede before him as after shal be shewed and no man can doubt but that S. Augustine our first Apostle brought in our first seruice from Rome in Latyn Raban lib. 2. de instituâ— clericorum Rupert lib c. de diâ—inis offâ—â—â—js And for Germany testifieth Rabanus Archb. of Moguntia aboue 700. yeares past and Rupertus Abbas some ages after him agayne And the same might be shewed particulerlie of all other particuler countryes by ancient Authors of the same nations and tymes Wherfore if the rule of S. Augustine often by him repeated be true Aug. lib. 4. contra Donatist cap 24. which is that when anything is found generally obserued in the Catholike Churche and no beginning to be found therof that this cometh most certaynlie from the Apostles by tradition And if his other senteÌ„ce be also true Aug. epist. 13â— where he sayth disputare contra id quod vniuersa Ecclesia facit insolentissimae insaniae est It is a poynt of most insolent madnes to dispute against that which the vniuersale Churche doth practise If this I say be true and that the general practise of the Christian world be euident in this behalfe for vsing one of these 3. learned tongues onlie in publique seruice publique vse of scriptures what shal we say of the insolency or madnes of S r. F. his fellowes that not onlie wil dispute and pratle against this practise and custome of the vniuersal Churche but also wil make the breach therof a peculiar blessing whereas notwithstanding those that passe from country to country do find the seruice in particular vulgar languages which they vnderstaÌ„d nothing at all must needs accompt it rather for a curse then a blessing to haue it in those vtterlie vnknowne vulgar laÌ„guages seing that euery man lightlie vnderstandeth somewhat of the Latyn eyther by learning or vse because it is comon to all and taught in euery countrie but not so of euery vulgar language out of the contrey where it is natiue this much of this first poynt or part of my answere THE SECOND PART of the answer about Churche seruice in English conteyning some authorityes aleaged for it but much corrupted and abused by the knight CAP. IX BVT now remayneth the second part which is to examine what the K t. bringeth for proofe of this imagined blessing And first he alleadgeth and vrgeth much the Authorite of S. Hierome who said of his tyme as this man cyteth him that Tota Ecclesia instar toniâ—rui reboat Hieron prol lib. 2. in comâ—â—t in Gal. Amen the whole Churche like a thunder did sound out Amen by which words he would inferre that therfore the publike seruice was in vulgar tongues in S. Hierome tyme but marke good reader by this one example yf there were no more the fraudulent manner of these mens aleadging Fathers For first this speach of S. Hierome is of the Churche of Rome as after shal be proued where no man can doubt but that the seruice was in Latyn and consequentlie the example is euel brought to proue seruice in a vulgar language and secondlie it is no maruayle though the people sounded out Amen in Rome where most men vnderstood the Latyn tongue and those that did not yet might they easelie vnderstand by vse what the word Amen signifyeth and when it is to be vsed And I would aske of our K. whether our Churche also in England where yet the Latyn tongue is not so common as in Rome did not sound out Amen in Queene Maryes dayes and other Catholike tymeâ— in the masse and other seruice when it was in Latynâ— Wil any deny this but eyther an ignorant or impudent man Let him go but ouer sea to Paris where the vulgar tongue is French and heare what the Catholike people do sound out in the publike seruice though it be not in their vulgar language Beed lib. 1. hist. Angl. ca. â— 20. Let him read S. Beed aboue 800. yeares agone who wryting of our Churche of England shewing first that the vse of publike seruice in his dayes was in the Latyn tongue as afterward is proued more at large rehearseth a notable storie Enc. 2. cap. 4. how S. Germanus S. Lupus freÌ„ch Catholike Bishops called in by Catholike Britanes against heretikes did set forth a certayne army against the Pelagians and other Infidels and gat the victorie by repeating the word Alleluâ—a sounded out like a thunder as he sayth by all the Catholike army And yet I do not thinke that S. F. wil go about to proue by this Argument that all that Army vnderstood the Latâ—n tongue or els the hebrue for that Alleluia is an hebrue word and no moâ—e doth it proue that the Roman Churche had their seruice in a vulgar tongue vnderstood by all for that they sounded out Amen and so much of this But now we are further to consider of a notorious fraud of the K. False dealing in alleadging S. Hierome in this place for that as he his do neuer lightlie aleadge any Father or Doctor for their purpose without some shâ—fte or imposture the Fathers being wholie and euery where against them so here S. Hieromes text whole discourse being quite contrary to him he durst not aleadge the whole sentence but culled out the words aleadged and framed them to his purpose Tota Ecclesiae instar tonitrui reboat Amen which words stand not in S. Hierome as he alleadgeth them but are altered and patched vp by him to make them seeme in his fauour leauing out craftilie both that which goeth immediatlie before presentlie doth follow for that they made against him and his whoâ—e cause of protestants religion which here I shal explayne S. Hierome in his proâ—me cyted of his second book vpoÌ„ the Epistle to the Galathians cited here by the knight taketh an occasion to shew vnto the two Virgines Paula and Eustochium to whom he dedicated his book why S. Paul in his Epistle to the Romanes praysed so much their faith Rom. 16. His words in latyn are these S. Hieron proemio lib. 2 comment ad Gal. Romanae plebis laudatur sides vbi alibi tanto sâ—udio frequentia ad Ecclesias ad martyrum sepulchra concurritur Vbi sic ad similitudinem caelestiâ— toniâ—rui Amen reboat The fayth of the people of Rome is praysed by the Apostle For where in any other place of the world do the people runne with so great
not be called a blessing of the land but of some part within the land And againe yf it be passiue only and enioyned by them-selues and not actiue so as they procure nor yeild not the same freedome to others where they may then is it absurdly called a blessing or benediction for that theeues also and the worst men of the world among them-selues or to others of their crew do not vse persecution Matth. 12. Marc. 3. Luc. 11. nay diuels also as Christ signifieth do not fight one against another and yet that this is not true in protestants but that they persecute one another also where they fal to difference of opinions is a thing so euident as needeth no proof and the examples alleadged by me before out of all the sects of Germany Switzerland and other countreys KeÌ„nit epist. ad Io. Georg. Elect. Brandeburg and namely that out of Kemnitius do euidently coÌ„uince yt with infinite proofes for that none of them getting the vpper hand in any place doth permit the other sect be yt neuer so brotherly to subsist with yt but dryueth them out euen the ridged Lutherans the soft and these the other wheresoeuer they preuayle as the Puritans also in Geneua HollaÌ„d Scotland France do not suffer any one congregation of softer Caluinists or English ProtestaÌ„ts to stand with them and on the contrary side whether our English protestants haue suffered their brethren Puritans to liue in England without persecution or noe or whether they haue had halcyon or halter dayes One side of protestants doth persecute the other these later yeares past vnder Protestants the hanging of Penry and other of thesame ghospel may testifie as also the many and greeuous complaints wrytten by them-selues published in print Lib. 2. of dangerous positions cap. 10. and registred these later dayes by the ProtestaÌ„ts in their foresaid bookes where the Puritanes cry out say among other things This land is sore troubled with persecution there iâ— no place nor being for a faythful Minister of the word our blood cryeth for reuenge an inquisition much like that of Spayne is among vs o lamentable case o heynoâ—â— impietie Ministers are in worse sorte oppressed now then they were by the Papists in Q. Maries tyme Complaâ—â—â— of persecutioÌ„ by Puritanes besydes whorish impudency halter axe bands scourging racking our Bishops haue nothing to desend themselues withal the Clinke Gatehouse white Lyâ—n and the Fleâ—â—e are their onlie arguments If I say Hieremy Ezechiel c. were aliue agayne they would be sent to the Marshalsey Lo good reader these piteous complaynts and many more do make and poure out one sort of ghospellers against the other when their owne ghospel brethreÌ„ cry out so much of persecution what may Catholikes do and how is this then a peculiar blessing of Protestants to be free from persecuting yet harken to our knight how he freeth all from suffring at their hands not onlie those of their owne religion Pag. 21. Sir F. proueth his ovvn men to be vvolues but also of ours The wolfe sayth he persecuteth the lambe not the lambe the wolfe Wel what of this this is a certayne sentence true in it selfe but proueth nothing for your sense nay rather I might inferre against yow thus Yow do persecute greuiouslie by your owne brethrens testimony them that be lambes by their profession Ergo yow are wolues by your owne sentence but harken yet further what he sayth also very confidentlie euen of Catholikes Freedome from persecution in England VVastvvord Pag. 21. Yow shal sayth he neuer be able to proue so farre as I could euer learne that any one eyther Priest or lay man learned or vnlearned hath in thiâ— land for these fortie yeares byn put to death only for being of a contrarie religion Heer I doubt not but all England wil cry shame to this shameful and shameles lack of shame for what chyld in England is so ignorant of thinges thaâ— passe as he knoweth not this to be a notorious falshood hauing hard of aboue a hundred Priests put to death for being Priests See tvvo Apologyes for the Catholikes vvith other treatises and for being ordeyned to that function beyond the seas and for defending the fayth belonging to the function as by diuerse treatises written of this matter doth appeare And if this were not so of the killing of so many men for only religions sake yet is there no persecution but death wil Syr F. say that his Protestants do not persecute for that they kil not all that be different from them in religion Persecution against Catholikes doth he not heare and see and know the numbers of them that be daylie apprehended imprisoned arraigned and condemned in their goods and liberties for standing in their fathers fayth and resisting protestants nouelties and innouations is this no persecution Is this the blessed freedome which protestants ghospel hath brought in Surelie I wil end and shut vp this absurditie with those wordes of S. Augustine against Iulian the famous heretike Aug. contr Iul. lib. 1. c. 7. Si nesciens hoc dixisti cur non miseram respuis imperitiam si sciens cur non sacrilegam deponis audaciam If thow hast said this by ignorance why dost thow not reiect thy miserable vnskilfulnes if wittinglie why doest thou not leaue of so impious audacitie and so much of this OF THE OTHER FIVE imagined blessings that remayne to wit deliuerance from exactions long peace power in forrayne countryes wealth of the land and multitude of subiects increased seauenfold CAP. XI BESYDES the blessings hitherto recyted which haue byn such and so goodlie as yow haue heard discussed our knight to make vp the number of ten hath added fyue more to wit Deliuerance from intolerable exactioÌ„s Long peace at home Great power abroad in forrayne countryes VVealth great riches increased with in the land And finaly great multitude of subiects seauenfold increased aboue that they were at her Maiesties entrance Which blessings though the very propounding of them to English eares be so ridiculous as they need litle examination and much lesse coÌ„futatioÌ„ yet for honoring of our knight that is the propounder I shal be forced to say a word or two of each of theÌ„ aduertising the reader first which yet he wil of himself obserue A seditious shift of syr F. especiallie by the last words of this enumeration that the knight playeth notably the part of Scogan in the treatie of these blessings running behynd the cloath of state as often I haue warned before and shal be forced more often hereafter and so conioyning her Maiesties gouernment with his ghospel and change of religion in the prayse and disprayse of that which hath ensued as if they could not possibly be seuered in the effectes of blessings and cursings therof proceeding which poynt I hold to be most false and flattering assuring my selfe presuming also that any man of iudgement
any reason of state or gouernment at home and if in the tyme of her Maiesties raigne there hath byn lesse actual home warre then in her Fathers brothers and sisters tyme for matters of religion much may be attributed to her owne moderation especiallie at the beginning in not yeilding to the furious humors of some hoate sectaries that would easely haue put all in combustion had not other counsel bene folowed to transfer the fyre rather to other mens houses then to haue it in her owne but the most especial part in this may trulie be geuen to the mylde and bearing natures of Catholikes that haue passed so many yeares vnder the heauie yoke of persecution rather with muttering then mouing Patience of Catholykes and yet what peace we may truelie be said to haue at home when such diuision of harts iudgments and wils is discouered as this knight in this very encounter doth affirme I cannot determyne but do leaue it to other men and himselfe also to consider But as for forayne warres vnder her Maiesties raigne whom most this fleering knight would flatter in this behalfe I would aske but himselfe hath it not bene almost perpetual with all our neighbours round about vs at one tyme or other and that for religion it selfe which this man braggeth to haue brought sweet peace haue not our armes byn seene in France for many yeares together against diuers kings therof for the same quarrel Foraine vvaâ—res let Newhauen speake by vs held if the knight wil not answere let Lithe also in Scotland tel vs if our armes were there against their lawful Prince in fauour of heresie and as for Spayne and Burgundie our eldest and surest allies in tymes past I thinke no denyall can be made but with greater impudency then this brag of peace is asserted and now what great treasures haue bene spâ— in those continual forayne warres whaâ— numbers of men consumed both by sea and land in this action for maintenance of thiâ— cursed new Pandora so is heresie termed by old Irenaeus it is hard to count â—enzus li. 2. cap. 19. 53. but easie to ghesse and yet telleth vs this man of his long sweet and profitable peace as though warres maintayned in Holland Zealand Ireland France Spayne Portugal Indies and other places by English armes English money English blood and all for maintenance of Geneua religion were no warres but all peace all sweetnes all profit all felicitie wherfore to obey Aristotle and not to reason any further when sense conuinceth so notorious a flatterie and vntruth I wil say no more hereof There ensueth the eyght and this no smal blessing as this knight sayth of power in foraine countryes â— Blessing of povver in forrayne countryes which what it may be we hauing no one foote of our owne beyond the seas since Calis by heretical treason was lost I do not wel see and yf we compare it with the great large prouinces we had before vnder Catholike Religion and especiallie with the change of our old mighty and honorable allyes and confederated Princes to our new gotten frends we shal soone discouer the fayntnes and fondnes of this blessing which is seene also by the qualitie of those persons and their cause which our K. braggeth to haue had their refuge in England vnder a womans gouernment out of France Flanders Swethland Scotland and other countryes who yf they haue bene none commonlie but open rebels to their true and lawful Princes their cause heresy or Atheisme then hath their refuge to England as also the Turkes familiarity wherof this prophane K t. vaunteth by name bene certayne effectes of the new ghospel litle honorable to our country or her Ma tie though by necessarie consequence of a course thrust vpon her she hath bene enforced to entertayne them whom otherwise of her most honorable and princelie disposition she could not but contemne and in her hart detest And so much of them not worthy the memory Next this cometh the nynth blessing which is as he sayth great wealth of the land encreased by this change of religion Blessing vvealth of the land Pag. 27. much riches plentie and aboundance such as hath not lightlie bene knowne before Wherabout I must tel our K t. first that it shal be reason that in this poynt we stand not only to his relation but that we aske our people of England them-selues what they feele at home in their countryes and not what pleaseth him in his chamber to imagin and to set downe â—t home with his pen sitting more at ease perhaps then many others especiallie since the match with the ritche widdow Hannâ—â—â— who hath eased wel the blow receyued before by the â—urchasing Yeoens-baron Yeoens repayred much he ruinous walles of his Cadburie Ierusalem And trulie where this so blessed aboundant encrease of riches should ly in particular which this our K. so greatlie boasteth of I do not see for yf we consider the nobilitie and gentrie of our Land at this day and compare them with that wealth which was wont to be in former tymes Old nevv riches of our nobilitie I meane power with power riches with riches multitude of seruaÌ„ts with multitude of seruaÌ„ts house-keeping with house-keeping and other such like effectes of wealth and riches I doubt me much how S. F. can verifie this blessing And for him-selfe though I wil not enter to feele his purse yet for so much as publike fame telleth I may say without slaunder that hauing sold all or the most parte of his owne landes and spent his goods vpon enterteynment of Ministers or other like ministerial minions he may better brag of good fellowship and liberalitie then of great blessing of riches and in the same case take I the most part of his fellow ghospelling knightes to be notwithstanding their daylie feeding vpon Catholikes goodes and that their Almes extend not to buyld Monasteries Colledges Churches or hospitals as their Ancestors did before them that were of an other religion so as to the nobilitie and gentry of our land the participation of this great blessing seemeth to be but litle And as for the commonalty we ought as I said to heare them-selues speake in their owne case VVealth of the commonaltie and not this seelie procter only which intrudeth him-selfe without proxie or commission and perhaps also not so wel informed in the case as he might be or not so faythful in relating as were conuenient for sure I am this cannot be denyed that when her Ma tiâ—s tributes and other duetyes are to be exacted of the coÌ„mon people though otherwayes they pay them willingly to their power yet heare I great difficulties and complaintes of penurie and where then consisteth this extraordinarie blessing of so great riches plentie and aboundance brought in by change of religion which yet is so exceeding great by this maÌ„nes vaunt as it is able ready to susteyne such
that had byn said wheras in deed he passeth ouer foure partes of fiue of the warders speach without eyther mentyon therof or answere at all for that the said warder in his book to shew the vanitie of the knights brag of blessings brought in by change of Catholike religion 4. parts of 5. praetermitted by the K in his ansvver passeth on to declare the many and manifold myseries and calamities happened as wel in EnglaÌ„d as in all other countryes round about vs by this fatal change wherin leauing Germany Switzerland Denmarke Suetia other such further partes where infinite people haue bene afflicted slayne and brought to myserie by warres and garboyles raysed by occasion of this change he exemplyfieth onlie in ScotlaÌ„d Flaunders France Ireland lying next vnto vs and from thence also passing home to England it self sayth thus For to begin with Scotland and to say nothing of the battayles Pag. â— vvard Scoâ—lands myseries by change of religion murders destruction of Countryes Prouinces Townes Cittyes houses and particular men which we haue seene in that realme within these fortie yeares that the change of religion hath byn attempted no man can deny but that three Princes two Queenes and one King the mother daughter and husband haue bene all brought to their bane by that occasion besydes the ouerthrow and change of so many noble houses Ireland Flanders France and linages as Scotishmen can recount amoÌ„g their Hamiltons Douglasses Stewardes others as also the Irish wil tel of their noble DesmoÌ„des and other Peeres destroyed by like occasions But Flanders and France haue no end at all in these accompts when they begin they are so many And all this as they say is euideÌ„t by the lameÌ„table coÌ„sequence of our chaÌ„ge of religioÌ„ in EnglaÌ„d which drew them after vs or at leastwayes gaue example hart and help to their change and euersion also But not to step from England it self where principallie this blessing-bringer doth vaunt that his blessings are powred out in aboundance England let vs examyne the matter indifferentlie among our selues we are Englishmen we talk to men of the same language and nation that know our country and condition therof and many haue seene the change and knew the state of things therin before the alteratioÌ„ or at leastwyse haue heard therof since by their fathers and grand-fathers c. Thus said I in the Wardword and further I passed on to draw all kyndes of blessings to two heads or branches spiritual and temporal Tvvo kindes of blessings and examined them both by diuers meanes and wayes as before hath bene touched shewing that not blessings but cursings not felicities but calamities had ensued euery where by this change and especiallie warres tumults and garboyles as now I haue declared And to all this my declaration which is somwhat large what replyeth thinke yow our defendant knight heare his wordes for they are verie resolute and eager If yow had any respect of truth sayth he or care of modestie Pag. 10. VVaâ—â—vvord yow would neuer make the true religion we professe the cause of murders tumultes garboyles which teacheth dutiful obedience condemneth all mutinies seditions rebellions Thus he fayth to this I replie that if our knight had any consideration of his credit he would neuer for shame affirme this so boldlie without answering to some of the examples alleaged by me against him as also the asseuerations of his owne best doctors before mentyoned by me about this matter of obedience En cont 1 ca. 3.4 5. so as hauing both their doctryne and practise to instruct vs it is a great impudency to deny it so resolutelie but let vs go forward When we came to the diuision mentyoned of spiritual and temporal blessings in particuler ensued to England by change of religion Spiritual blessings before the change First about spiritual benefits and benedictioÌ„s the warder setteth downe how before the change of religioÌ„ men had one faith one beliefe one forme of seruice one number of Sacraments one tongue in celebratioÌ„ one sacrifice one head of the Churche together with the rest of Christendome and that since the chaÌ„ge all these things are altered for that English Protestants differ in all those poyntes or the most not only from all Catholike kingdomes but also with their owne and among themselues to wit first from other new ghospellers abroad for that neyther do we Engâ—ish protestants agree with any secte of the Lutherans softe or riged nor with the Zuinglians or Caluinists of other countryes nor yet with those of our owne as appeareth by the Churche of Scotland and of the presbyteries of our Puritans in England Holland Zeland and other places For proof wherof it shal not need to repeat agayne the whole discourse of the wardword for that this is sufficieÌ„tly proued by that I haue alleaged before about the first supposed blessing of vnity To all which discourse of disvnion among them set downe by the wardword Syr F. answereth no one thing Syr Francis is mute in matters of most moment Pag. 13. but only sayth that it is a cunning tricke to grate so often vpon this diuision calling some puritans some protestants which he hopeth the Lord of might and mercy wil turne to the good of the Churche and direct the hartes of their Churchmen to see how needful it is to ioyne both hart hand together to desend the doctrine of fayth which they all hold against the calumniations of slaunders wherwith you and men of your sort sayth he seek to lead the truth of our profession Behould heere a substantial defence consisting of foure poyntes first he would gladly deny the difference of names sectes of * Of this difference see before cap. 6 7. puritanes protestaÌ„ts as cunningly deuised by vs what shifte wil ye cal this Then he hopeth in the Lord of mercy they wil agree at length but when and how Encount 1. cap. 3. After that by a parenthesis he sayth they all hâ—ld one doctrine of fayth this how true it is appeareth before out of their owne words and wrytings alleaged by me to the contrary And lastly he sayth these are but slaunders deuised by vs to load the truth of their profession withall This shift also I leaue to the reader to iudge of what quality it is as in like manner of what modestie the K. is in denying matters so euidently knowne of all noting by the way that he dareth not to speak out Syr F. of vvhat religion and playnly vtter his mynd about this diuision of puritanes and protestants in any place of his reply nor yet to discharge him-selfe of the supition to be one of them wherwith the warder often charged him and he hath not denyed it flatly hitherto nor yet fully confessed it so as we must hold him eyther for neutral or ambidexter vntil he declare him-selfe further though in
these that follow The summe of all that hath byn said about blessings and cursings First in spiritual affayres to haue no certayntie of religion at all as hath byn proued no stay no foundation no final rule to try or iudge to determin but onlie euery maÌ„s owne priuate head and fancie wrangling and iangling without end for that it is without iudge or meanes to make an end nouelties without number libertie of lyfe without feare or force of ecclesiastical discipline to restrayne it And then in teÌ„poral matters the blessings are such as haue byn discouered our realme deuided shiuered in a thousand peeces our Princesse in yeares without children or hope of any our crowne without succession our old frends allies made our enemyes our new frends vncertayne our owne flesh and countrymen most pittifullie deuided within their owne bowels and most miserably tossed and tormoyled both abroad and at home abroad and in other couÌ„tryes with prisons yroÌ„s chaynes gallyes and other afflictions euen to death it selfe for being protestants pyrates spyes practisers or other such imputations incident to enemyes At home afflicted with no lesse persecutions of our owne Magistrats for being Catholikes or deemed to be such So as I would fayne know who they are in our litle Iland that feele these innumerable benefits blessings by change of religion which this gentleman talketh of seing there are verie fewe eyther of one religion or other that tast not of the miseries wherof I haue spoken eyther in themselues their frends children seruants kynsfolkes goods honors or otherwise and most of al the realme and commoÌ„ wealth it selfe c. To all this speach and reason of the warder Syr F. answereth onlie in foure or fiue lynes thus Pag. 2â— Vayne and ydle ansvvering As for your building of Castels in the Ayre by supposal oâ— blessings that might probably haue ensued if religion had not byn altered because I meane not to take the paynes to follow yow in your extrauagant discourses and because they are indeed nothing but the imaginations of an ydle brayne I leaue them to M r. Moores Fictio Vtopica Who could answere with fewer words or lesse matter so large important a discourse then Syr F. doth heere or who could go further â—rom the purpose then he that leaueth out the substance of all his aduersaries allegation and entertayneth himselfe in tryfles of his owne deuising Let the reader iudge whether his answere be rightlie termed a wastword or no. I must needs conclude as S. Augustine did against Iulian with this interrogation Aug. lib. 1. contra Iulianum cap. 1. Quaero abs te cur libâ—o meo saltem spetie tenus te respondisse glorieris cum libri mei partem nec quartam reprehendendo tetigeâ—is eosque saltus in praetereundis meis disputationibus feceris quasi omnino despâ—rares veriusque operis mei scilicet tui quenquam esse posse lectorem qui ista deprehenderet I aske of yow Syr F. as good a disputer or shifter rather as was Iulian how yow can glorie to haue answered my former book wheras yow haue not so much as touched the fourth parte therof and haue made such leapes in passing ouer my arguments disputatioÌ„s as though yow dispayred that any reader would view both workes and fynd out your falshood in this behalfe VVHAT O. E. ANSVVEreth to the former chapter about diuision and vncertainty in religion CAP. XV. I HAVE signifyed vnto thee gentle reader before that where the knight fynding matters somwhat hard or vneasie to answere seeketh now and then with some regard of honor and reputation to step ouer without stumbling and to salue some matters by smothe sylence there bold bayard the minister rushing in with more resolution masking himselfe with the vizard of two vowels O. E. which may stand perhaps in his cypher for Owles Eyes to looke thorough and to see and not be seene agayne layeth on load both in babling and scoulding saying somwhat to euery thing though nothing in deed to all and folowing the threed of my speach and narration he picketh quarrels to whatsoeuer seemeth most capable of cauillation and this appeareth to be his cheifely entended exployt in this his enterprise of answering the proofe shal be seene by experience And first of all wheras the warder obiecteth diuision disvnion and disagreement to him and his as you haue heard and this not onlie from Catholikes but also from their owne ghospellers Pag. 4. as from the Lutheranes in Germany and Denmarke to vse the warders owne wordes from Zwinglians in Zuitzerland from Caluinists in Geneua France Holland and Scotland from Puritanes Brownists and other sects at home that impugne Protestants daylie of the parlament religion This fellow denyeth first verie flatlie Pag. 19. that there is any diuision among them at all And heere he wynneth the first garland of impudencie as yow see but look vpon an other more cleare then this Great impudency of O. E. Secondly sayth he the Churches of Zwitzerland Germany France England do neyther hold of Zuinglius Caluyn nor Luther but of Christ Iesus and of his Apostles and Prophets Lo reader how quicklie this matter 〈◊〉 dispatched and how soone disagreement 〈◊〉 made betweene them see the 4.5 and 6. former chapters for tryal of this poynt and note by the way that of purpose he leaueth out heere the Puritanes espetialie mentyoned by the warder for that he hauing written so earnestlie against them a litle before caÌ„not with his honour now make attonemeÌ„t with them as he doth with the Lutheranes of Germany Zuinglians of Switzerland and Caluinists of France vniting them all in one Churche and in the true doctryne of Iesus Christ and consequentlie also with himselfe and his Churche of England according to the rule principle Quae conueniunt in aliquo tertio inter se etâ—an conueniunt those things that agree in a thirdâ— agree also betweene themselues which he expoundeth also presentlie after by the wordeâ— next folowing As â—or our selues sayth he al of vs professe the doctryne of Christ Iesus Pag 19. according to that rule that was established by common consâ—â—â— of the Churche of England from which if any digresse he is no more to be accounted of our society thâ—â— the Papists c. Marke heere good reader the guyddy head of this gagling goose first he ioyneth together in the true doctryne of Iesus Christ Most foolish inconstancy and contradiction to himselfe and of his Apostles and prophets as wel all Lutherans and Zuinglians as also all kynde of Caluinists and consequently Puritanes whome yet presentlie he cutteth oâ— agayne Pag. 17. no less then Papists and those of the Popes retinue whom before he said to be no Christians nor to hold any one article a right of christian fayth if they do digresse in any thing from the rule of fayth established by common consent of the Churche of England which all doe
and consequentlie he doth as much as if with one hand he should embrace lul and coople together both Lutherans Zuinglians and Puritanes acknowledging them for his deare and tender brethren and with the other should beat them of detest them as enemyes and publike heretikes for so he doth in effect seing it is euident that neyther the sectaryes of LutheraÌ„s Zuinglians or Puritan-Caluinists of Geneua France ScotlaÌ„d HollaÌ„d or England do agree which O. E. his rule of fayth here mentioned to wit the rule established by common consent at this day in the Churche of England And this is euidentlie and aboundantly proued by their owne books and sayings before recyted in the 4.5.6 and sequeÌ„t chapters of this Encounter But for that our Minister maketh mention heere of a certayne rule of fayth wherby he and his are directed and others that digresse from the same are to be reiected from their communion and societie I meane to examine â—he same brieflie in this place and to see what 〈◊〉 is And first of all that there is and must be â—ome certayne rule among Christians That their is some certayne rule of fayth as vvel hovv to beleeue as also vvherby to interpret scriptures wherby â—o know and stay their fayth and to discerne â—ew Catholykes from heretykes is most â—â—ident both by reason it selfe and by the authoritie of the verie first founders of our religion who often do make mention and admonish vs therof as S. Paul to the Corinthians secundum regulam nostram 2. Cor. 10. according to our rulâ— and to the Philippenses in eadeÌ„ permaneamus regula let vs persist in the same rule And to the Gallatians Phil. 3. quicúnque hanc regulam secuâ—â— fuerâ—â—t pax super illos whosoeuer shal follow this rule of fayth Gal. 6. peace vpon them and other such places Rom. 12. as namely to the Romanes Prophetia secundum rationem fidei prophesy by which iâ— vnderstood heere principallie interpretatioâ— of scriptures according to the rule or analogie oâ— fayth for so is the greek word By all which places is manifest that there iâ— a certayne publike rule of fayth and was eueâ— among the Apostles them-selues and thesamâ— continued afterward by all the Fathers oâ— euery age wherby it was easye to distinguiâ—â— betweene such as were Orthodoxi or Catholykes and others that were new fangled oâ— wrangling people that would follow no rulâ— but their owne head and fancyes of whiâ—â— rule make mention also in the primitiâ—â— Churche Ignatius after the Apostles epist. adâ—â—â—gnetianos Iustinus Apol 2. pro Christianis Irenaeus 〈◊〉 1. cap. 1. 2. Clemens lib. 4. stromatum aduersus 〈◊〉 reses Tertullianus lib. de velandis virginibus 〈◊〉 Alexandrinus as S. Basil cyteth him lib. de spiriâ—â— cap. 29. and many other Fathers commendiâ—â— highlie and inculcating often the obseruatiâ—â— of this rule as wel for beliefe as also for inteâ—â—pretation of Scriptures but especiallie to câ—â—â—cerne heretikes who to vse these Fathers owne words do no sooner begin to pratle but that by digressing from this rule do bewray them-selues and shew what they are and thus far that there is a rule which our enemies cannot deny But now what that rule is it may be that our Minister and I shal not so soone agree VVhat the rule of faith is or vvas in old tyme. but yet first of all that it cannot be onlie Scripture is euident by his owne speach and confession in this place Pag 19. where he sayth that his people of England do professe the Doctrine of Christ Iesus according to that rule that was established by common consent of the Churche of England from which rule sayth he if any digresse they are none of our societie â—o more then Papists By which words is euident that his rule consisteth of the consent and establishment of certayne men in England what to belieue which is a different matter from scriptures though they wil say perhaps that in this establishment they folowed Scriptures as wil also the Puritanes and others that heere are excluded by this established rule And besyds this confession of O. E. himselfe there are many other conuincing reasons that this rule named by the Apostles was not â—cripture and among other this that eyther â—one or very litle of the newe Testament was written when this rule of fayth was published â—or no vse and practise among Christians as â—ppeareth by the often repetition therof made â—y the same Apostles afterward when they â—ame to write Wel then not to be longer for so much as this rule could not be onlie scripture the best way perhaps to vnderstaÌ„d what it was and is at this day wil be to heare some of the ancieÌ„t Fathers describe the same Holy Ignatius writing to the same Churche that S. Paul did a litle before cyted to wit Phil. 3. Igâ— â— epist. 〈◊〉 Philippenses to the Philippenses sayth id ipsum dicatis omnes idem sentientes in hoc ipso fidei regulas praeceptáque seruaui sicut Paulus erudâ—ens nâ—s dicit Do yow say and teach the selfe same and be of one iudgment for by this haue I obserued the rules of fayth as Paul instructing vs sayd Lo heere the iudgment of Ignatius who affirmeth him-selfe to haue obserued the rule of fayth for that he said and taught that which all said and taught and thought that which all thought and folowed no singularitie eyther of his owne or others Irenaeus calleth this rule the order of traditioâ— from the Apostles tyme to his Iren. aduers. haeres lib. 2. cap 3 4. The great estimation of â—he old rule of faith by which he sayth that all heretikes are conuinced in such sorte that Catholykes shut vp their eares as soone as they heare them speake contrarie to the said rule of vniuersal fayth deliuered by tradition from age to age Iren. ibid. Traditionem Apostolorum fayth he in toto mundo manifestatam in omni Ecclesia adeâ—â— perspicere omnibus qui vera velint audire c. We may see the tradition of the Apostles in euery Churche if we wil heare the truth and we can number those Bishops that were instituted by the Apostles and their successors vnto our dayes who taught not that which these heretikes dreame c. Thus said he accompting this rule to be the whole tradition of our Ancestors coÌ„ming downe by succession of Bishops and Pastors Terâ— lib. de praescript contr haeret cap. 27. To whom agreeth Tertullian presentlie after him calling this rule the fulnesse of the Apostles preaching si ergo incredibile est sayth he ignorasse Apostolos plenitudinem praedicationis vel omnem ordinem regulae omnibus non edidisse c. if it be incredible that the Apostles did not know the fulnes of the preaching of the ghospel or that they did not deliuer vnto all Christians all the order of the rule of beliefe c. And the same man in an other place Tert.
Henry Kings of FraÌ„ce the States of the low countreys the people of Portugal who haue fallen into diuers troubles warres and disasters not-withstanding they contynued the masse and were Catholyks in religion But I would aske O. E. whether these troubles came by their chauÌ„ge of religion or noe For yf they did not then are they impertinent to our purpose which is to shew that by change of religion commonly do ensue troubles but not that only by this meanes disasters are incurred as though there were no other for that Catholyke Princes people also may incurre troubles by other meanes then by change of religion but they auoyd those which this change doth bring with yt Change of religion in France and Flanders Wherfore this noddy is discouered to speake nothing to the purpose in bringing in those fiue examples wherof foure not-with-standing are wholy against him-selfe for that all the troubles which he mentioneth to haue happened to Catholyke Princes and people in France and Flaunders haue byn occasioned by change of religion inforced vpon them by others as the world knoweth and not by â—heir owne willes and so hauing seene what â—his minister hath answered to the Warders â—reface of temporal hurts we may imagine â—ow substantially he wil satisfie afterward â—o the points them-selues wherof the first â—ower are those that follow And first saith the warder yf religion had not byn chaunged her Ma tie at this day had had a most fâ—orishing Kingdome VVarnvvord Pag. 8. vnited both to her and amonge them-selues in religion 1 Strength and felicity by vnion iudgment affection fidelity and frend-â—hip as other realmes Cath. of the world are seene to bee as ours for aboue a thousand yeares togeather with much honour and felicity is knowne to haue remayned 2 Security Heerof had ensued that none of these feares and terrors of conquests inuasions assaults treasons conspiraties the lyke which this VVach-man endeauoreth to lay before vs had euer come in conâ—ideration for that England vnited in yt selfe hath euer synce it was a monarchy made other Kingdomes and prouinces round abouâ— yt to feare her forces as by matters happened in France Ireland and Scotland for many ages is euident and she neuer greatly feared any Thirdly England had had her Ma tie at this day by all likelyhood a ioyful mother of many faire and princely children 3 Issue of her Maiestie for that the principal cause of her graces not marrying is to be presumed to haue proceeded of the differenâ— religion of forrayne princes who desired thâ— same on the one side and one the other thâ— inequality of blood in her owne subiects for such aduancement For to attribute this great resolution of heâ— Ma tie to the only loue of sole lyfe and maydâ—-head I doubt how yt can be iustifiable seinâ— that amoÌ„g Catholyks where such profesioâ— is more praysed and practised they vse sometymes to draw out euen vowed nunnes from â—heir cloysters to marriage for so weightie a â—ause as is the sauing of succession in so great a â—rowne as England is knowne to be And â—mong Protestants virginity is not of that neâ—essity or meryt as for yt to incurre so great â—â—conueniences notwith-standing the base â—nd seruile flattery of this crouching Knight â—ho casteth in now and then the memory of 〈◊〉 mayden Queene without respecting the â—eadly wound which his countrey receyueth â—â—erby Foorthly of this had followed the sure estaâ—â—ishment of the succession of this imperial â—â—owne in the blood and race of the vnited â—â—yal houses of York and Lancaster 4 EstablishmeÌ„t of successioÌ„ and of 〈◊〉 lâ—ne of the noble K. Henry the 7. which â—ne being now to end with her Ma tie in the â—â—rect discent is lyke to bring great daungers 〈◊〉 the realme For albeyt there want not of â—â—llateral branches yet their causes are otherâ—ayes so implicated for diuers â—espects but â—â—ecially by difference of religion which had â—uer happened yf the chaunge had not byn â—ade as no man can tel what wil be the end â—â—d most men do feare extreame calamityes â—â—erby Thus saith he Wher-vnto for the first two â—â—ints our minister answereth nothing in â—â—ect First secoÌ„d inconuenience feare daunger but that the VVarder mistaketh S. F. meaning 〈◊〉 think him to haue spoken any thing of feare eyâ—â—â— of forrayne inuasions or domestical treasons but â—â—at is this to the purpose had yt not byn better that all this had byn aduoyded Buâ— heare him further Pag. 30. But suppose saith he Poperâ— had byn continued how could this noddy haue giuen 〈◊〉 warrant that we should haue byn neyther oppugâ—eâ— by enemyes abroad nor by traytors at home VVaâ—nâ— Henry the 3. of France excommunicated by the Popâ— oppugned by his subiects murdered by a Dominicaâ— fryar notwith-standing his zeale in popery Marke heere the mannes wit there be twâ— parts of his demaund the first how the Waâ—der could warrant c. wher-vnto is easiâ—â— answered that such hurts as came by alteratiâ—â— of religion as diuision of mynds iudgemenâ— and affections c. had byn easily warranteâ— yf religion it self had not byn altered The second part about K. Henry the thirâ— of Fraunce is ridiculous About HeÌ„ry late K. of France for he was not troubled for changing of religion him-selfe bâ— for being presumed to fauour them vnder-haâ—â— that meant to change religion for the deaâ— of noble Princes as all the world knowetâ— hauing as diuers write giuen his oath aâ—â— fidelitie to the contrary and receyued the Sâ—crament for confirmation therof and yet yt eyther presumption or ignorance in tâ—â— compagnion so bodly to affirme that the Poâ—â— did excoÌ„municate the said King for this faâ—â— which excommunication no man euer yâ— saw published To the third principal poynt about the prâ—bability of noble issue in her Ma tie yf chanâ—â— of religion had not byn 3 Inconuenience lack of iâ—sue royal this parasite prâ—leth as yf he were Iack daw shewing wil 〈◊〉 talke but lacking wit to say any thing to the â—urpose telling vs only that yf it had pleased â—er Ma tie to haue married she might as wel â—aue marryed in protestant religion as in Caâ—holyke and that their women may haue fayre â—rincely children as wel as ours and that â—â—uers Cath. Princes did seeke her marriage â—nd amongst others the K. of Spayne And â—hat the french K. sister at this day is marryed â—hough she be a protestant and that Q. Mary â—as marryed and yet had no children and diâ—ers other such trifling toyes which we deny â—ot but say that they are impertinent and â—o not touch the substance it selfe of the â—atter meant by the Warder which is that 〈◊〉 a Cath. state there would haue byn other â—anner of instance made to her Ma tie other â—ounsel and resolution of learned men layd â—efore her for her obligation to marry in such case for sauing of a common wealth
consequentlie much more reprehensible then the first especially in a knight and how think yow doth he deliuer himself now from this charge Pag. 2â— yow shal heare presentlie by his owne pen for after a fewe words of some compunction and humilitie as it might seeme wherin he wrote that he would beare this charge of lying according to the councel of an ancient Father who said that God suffreth slaunders to assault vs that pryd may not surprise vs as who would say that his learned Wach-word had byn so glorious a work as yt might haue put him into some pryd and set him a loft had not the warder by his answere taken him downe agayne and taught him to know himself After this I say he runneth presently to a certayne shifte before meÌ„tioned of laying the lyke charge of lying to other men also of our syde as yf that might excuse him somewhat to haue some compagnions in that exercise and as yow haue heard before in the precedent Encounter that being charged with flatterie he raÌ„ne straight wayes to Canonists saying that they flattered much more the Pope then he the Queene and state so now being charged with lying he leapeth in lyke manner to lay the same charge vpon fryars heare his narration VValsingham sayth he an ancient Chronicler wryteth of Friars in Richard the second his tyme Pag. 29. that they were of long tyme so infamons for lying that it was counted a good argument both in matter and forme This is a fryar ergo a lyar And it should seeme the Romanists keep stil their old wont by that famous ly which also of late they haue sent vs ouer not only in print but in picture too namely that some of the mayntenours of their Catholyke Religion haue byn by vs heere put into beares skinnes so hayted to death with Maistâ—ues a ly printed in the English College at Rome 1584. with Gregorie the 13. his priuilege so great a ly as no place was fit to vtter it but only Rome Lo heere thou maist see good reader put in practise agayne the refuge before mentioned of excusing one fault by an other which is a most absurd shifte for as S. Ierom. sayth peccantium mulâ—itudo non parit errori patrocimuÌ„ Hiero. epist. 66 ad Ruffinum The multitude or society of offenders doth not protect or geue patronage to the errour But much more in this case when many pointes be different for I would aske the K t. what releef or discharge is this to him yf both these examples were true as after they wil proue false to wit yf fryarâ— were such lyars in King Richard the 2. his tyme why should â—nights be lyars in Q. Elizabeths tyme â— or yf a printer or paynter in Rome or both or these that set them a worke liuing a thousand myles from England should haue â—rrâ—d in â—ome one particular fact wrâ—tten or related from thence what excuse may this be to S. F. who writing in England is accused to haue lyed and faâ—sified things present and such as all England doth or may know to be false furthermore he cannot be so ignorant but that he must know that there is a great differeÌ„ce betweene historical and doctrinallyes the first much more perdonable then the second * The relaâ—â—t of the diâ—putation betvveene Plessy Mornay and â—he Bâ—â—h oâ— Eurâ—ux bâ—fore the K of Fâ—aunce in May anno 1600. and that one of our countrymen of late hath offred to shew an infinitie of doctrinal lyes out of diuers principal protestant wryters and especially out of Ihon Fox by name this maÌ„nes maister that within the coÌ„passe of two leaues yet doth he pardon him all meere historical lyes such as by euil information he might be deceaued in the relating of Fox act and â—oâ— 115. as namely that of Iohn Marbeck the singer of Windsore diuers others whome he setteth doâ—ne for martyrs and boâ—h printedâ— and paynted with fyer about â—hem their bodies burned to ashes whiles they were yet aliue and meâ—râ—e when Fox printed his book With much more equitie then do we deale with S.F. and his frends then he wâ—â—h vs yf the matters alleaged were both true to his purpose And wheras he addeth that this report of the beares skin is priuileged for truth by Pope Gregorie the 13. it is a childish cauil for that Princes priuileges do warrant only the printing and not the truth of the book for yf her Ma ties priuilege to Fox and Iewels books for example sake or to this poore one of S.F. should be an obligation to her Ma tie to defend all the lyes and falshoods therin conteyned it were a pitiful case and dangerous also to the authors and wryters them-selues for then were her Ma tie obliged in honor to see the same punished when they are found out and at least to graunt the demaund of the foresaid relator of Plessy Morney his disputation to haue our protestants falshoods come to publyke tryal before her person or counsel as those of Plessis Mornayes impostures were examined and conuinced in presence of the K. of France which were a daungerous point in England as matters now stand I meane daungerons to the credit of ProtestaÌ„ts doctrine and dealing but otherwyse profitable for the truth most honorable to her Ma tie and memorable for posteritie But now let vs examine the fact it self obiected about this beares skinne for of this I meane to treat first About the man bayted in the beares skinne and of the fryars afterward true it is that at my being in Rome I sawe among other pictures on the English Churche wals of old and new martyrs diuers representations and of some cruel vsage of Catholykes for their conscience sake in our dayes and among other this portrayture of one in a beares skyn bayted with dogs and for that I had not heard nor read of any such matter publikely done in England I beganne to maruaile how it came to be paynted there yet considering on the other syde as euery indifferent man should that they being graue and learned men that were in Rome at that tyme and gaue the instructions to the paynter in that matter and that it was nor likly they would be so wicked or foolish or so litle respect their owne credits as to inuent or fayne any such matter of them-selues set it soorth so publikely to be seene and red of all the world I beganne to ymagin that eyther themselues knew it to be true which I knew not or els might perhaps by letters be informed therof out of England froÌ„ some frends who might affirme it of their owne knowledge to haue byn done in some priuate manner for that the said persons in Rome were now dead I beganne to informe my selfe of others and presently I fel vpon a very sufficient geÌ„tleman of Lincolne shyre who tould me that in the parish of Lowth it is most certayne that in K.
him as one of the companie cryed out belyke some poore woman that was his Hostes or other new sister bewiched by him Beatus venter qui te portauit Luther in act VVormat Blessed was the belly that bare thee which yet other Authors do not testifie But yf it were so yt was no lesse vanitie arrogaÌ„cie in him to report yt of himself then madnes in the other to make that comparison of him with Christ and yet it seemeth he was made therby both more proud and obstinate For albeit he were dealt with all afterward by diuers sent vnto him by the Archb. of Triuers and others of that counsel to reforme himself yet would he not but stil remitted himself to the word of God which the Emperor vnderstanding sent vnto him his Secretarie the chancelor of Austria commanding him that within one and twentie dayes he should depart and put himselfe within his owne securitie agayne vpon his owne peril And this was the Emperors fauour of which S.F. so much braggeth that Luther departed from Wormes in safetie which was to much fauour in deed considering eyther his merits or the publyke dammages insued by him afterward to the world and happie had yt beene for many thousand soules yf he had byn dealt withal as Iohn Husse was But now touching Symon Grinaeus which is his third example Fox Act. and men pag. 1884. excoÌ„ment Melanch in c. 10. Dan. brought in to shewe the great learned men of his syde which he took out of Ihon Fox though for pryde he wil not confesse yt what doth it proue to his purpose though yt were in all respects as Fox alleageth yt out of MelaÌ„chton as good an author as him selfe The vayne brag of SymoÌ„ Grynaeus his learning disputation the storie is this Symon Grinaeus being at the towne of Spire in the yeare 1529. when Ferdinandus K. of the Romanes was present and hearing Faber Bishop of Vienna a famous learned man make a Catholyke Sermon he went to him secretly as Melanchton reporteth after the Sermon ended warning him of certayne errors in his SermoÌ„ as he termed them being in deed points of Catholyke doctrine offring to conferre with him yf he would about the same But the Bishop being called for at that present by the King told him he could not then but deferred the same vntil the next day and in the meane space the Kings officers being informed that Grynaeus a Lutheran was in the towne and seeking to apprehend him the Protestants hearing of yt they attributed it vnto the B. procurement which perhaps was false and Grynaeus raÌ„ne away by night ouer the Ryuer of Rheene and so escaped This is the storie of Grynaeus as his best frends tel it wherin yow see there is no mencion of disputation but only of running away and how then doth this proue that S. F. men are better learned then ours especially the last two Luther and Grynaeus a Lutheran who are as eager against S. F. with all the learning they haue as they are against vs Enc. 1. cap. 4. 5. as I haue sâ—ewed at large by their words deeds and wrytings in the former Encounter And moreouer the learning they had they receyued froÌ„ vs among whom they were brought vp and not from those of S.F. syde And consequently we may better brag of them then he yf any thing were in them worth bragging at all as in deed there was not when they fel from the Catholyke Churche to wrangling and heresie There remayneth then the last brag of our K t. about the colloquy at Poysie in France by Peter Martyr About the Colloquie at Poysie betvveene Catholykes protestants Beza and other 12. ministers wherof S. F. vaunteth as though the Catholykes had receyued the worst in that meeting but who shal be iudge of this S.F. alleageth no Author at all but his owne word saying that our Card of Loraine was in a pitiful taking there and that I must needs yeild VVast Pag. 39. that eyther their men were more learned theÌ„ ours there or that which he more desyreth that their cause was better Wherfore I shal alleage here the summe of the matter out of the best authors that haue written therof as Belleforest Surius Pegnillus B. of Mets and Claudius de Sanctis who was present and then let the reader himselfe be Iudge First then the truth is this that Charles the nynth K. of France being newly come to his Kingdome a child of 12. yeares old finding all in warre and garboyle and that the murder of his predecessor had byn designed in Geneua the yeare before Chro. geneb pag 457. Sur. in iust an 1561. by Caluyn Beza Otoman and others as Genebrard and Surius do testifie thought yt expedient or at least-wayes his mother the Queene to permit this meeting somwhat therby to mitigate the heretykes that were in armour though it being amongst swords on euerie syde the Catholykes did mislike therof and some refused to come thither others that came complayned greatly Complaint of F Laynetz of the colloquie at Poisie and among others Iacobus Laynets a Spaniard and great learned man General afterward of the Iesuites who spoke openly against it in the colloquie yt self shewing that it was rather a betraying of religion then defending yt to put it in dispusation with such disaduantage when the Hugonots were in the ruffe and had taken Newhauen Roane and most of the chiefe holdes round about threatning also to ouer-ruÌ„ne all France as for the greatest parte they did the yeare following and so was this colloquy dissolued sayth Genebrad without any fruite at all Geneb anno 1561. Herevpon diuers bragging and lying books were set out by the heretykes of this meeting and their victorie therin as though they had gayned all and one shamed not to say and write that the Catholykes had yeilded and offred to become all Protestants wherof Genebrard writeth thus Geneb Pag. 464. Impudentissimum est mendacium quod Lauaterus scribit colloquutores Catholicos consensisse cum ministris Lauat in hist. de re Sacramentâ— It is a most impudently that Lauater a Swinglian historiographer doth wryte that the speakers of the Catholyke partie in Poysie did agree in opinion with the Ministers And then he addeth that the sequel of this Colloquie or conference was most bloody warre that ensewed presently throughout all France and endured for 18. yeares together and in the verie next yeare after he sayth that France suffred more in that one yeare of Frenchmen themselues enraged with heresy then in all former ages by strangers At what tyme also England took Newhauen into their hands deliuered by the Hugonots This was the case then of the temporal state when this armed meeting of Hugonots was appoynted in France rather vpon necessitie and feare as the Queene mother of FraÌ„ce after excused hirselfe and that famous learned Bishop Claudius Sanctius testifieth it of her owne
traytor Thus he writeth of the beginning of the controuersy There was as authors doe affirme in that time of Henrie the second Pag 56. more then a hundred murthers besydes other felonyes proued vpon the cleargie which when the king would haue punished according to the lawes of the land A fâ—lse and slâ—undâ—rous beginning of the 〈…〉 Becket opposed himself and beardeth the king in this so iust an action vnder title of standing for the libertyes of the Churche from this strauÌ„ge ground these proceedings ensued In which words of the knight there is to bee noted first that where he saith authors doe affirmè that more then a hundred murders besides other â—ellonies were proued vpon the cleargie no other author is found to mention any such thing but onelie Nubergensis who yet doth not say that they were proued vpon the clergie but his words are Nuberg hist. Angl. l. 2 16. that it was said to haue byn tould the king at a certaine time that aboue a hundred murders had byn committed within the kingdome of England since his raigne by Cleargie men In which woords as you see NubergeÌ„sis doth not say that it was true or that it was proued as our knight doth and secondly he speaketh of the whole tyme of king Henries raigne vntil this contention which was some 14. or 15. yeares and thirdly the falling out of the Archbishop with the king was not for that he would not haue these clergie men punished if they had offended as wickedly this knight giueth to vnderstand saying presently after This proud prelate durst protect fellons and murderers against the king and iustice of the lanâ— but the controuersy was only about the maner of punishing those that did offend and by what iudges and iurisdiction they should be punished to wit whether by ecclesiastical or temporal power for that the Archbishop affirmed that equity required that clergie men offending should first be iudged condemned and degraded by ecclesiastical power according both to the cannon lawes as also the municipal lawes of the land confirmed by all former Christian Kings â—rom the first conuersion of England and that they being thus condemned should be deliuered to secular power for executâ—on of the sentence which is a case that faâ—leth out dayly in Spayn Italy France and other Cath. contreys where Bishops do defend their Eccâ—es iurisdiction in punishing Eccles. persons taking them also by force of censures out of secular iudges hands when occasioÌ„ is offered without all note of rebellion or treason And no lesse was this law of the realme of England confirmed by ancient parliaments and other antiquities then were the secular lawes for which S r. F. standeth and fondly calleth the defence of eccles lawes treason and rebellion Wherfore hauing set downe so false a relation of the beginning of this controuersy falsifying NubergeÌ„sis as yow see in many points he doth prosecute the same with lyke vntruth as presently yow shal see And first he beginneth with a certayne letter of Maud the Empresse vnto the Archbishop which she wrote at the instance of the King her sonne and vpoÌ„ the informatioÌ„ of such courtyers as were contrary to the Bishop and his cause In which letters she chargeth him that to vse S â— F. owne words as much as in him lay he went about to disinherit the King and depriue him of his crowne Whervnto I answere that truth it is Iohn Fox hath such a letter of thesaid Empresse Maud without telling where Pag â—8 or whence or how he had it or where we may read it for in none of all the authors aboue mentioned I do fynd it Yet one thing I would haue the reader to note S. F vntrue dealing in cyting matters against S. Thom. which testifieth the continuance of S r. F. vntrue dealing in this affayre that wheras in Iohn Fox the whole charge of the empresse against the Archbishop is mitigated by this pareÌ„thesius as the report is which sheweth that these were but suspitions only and reports of his enimies Fox Pag. 201. S r. F. hath left out the parenthesis as the report is as though she had charged him vpon her owne knowledge which is no true dealing or right meaning as yow see But let vs heare further S r. F. his words pretending a more certayne proof of treason rebellion in S. Thomas Pag. 58. But if the Empresse saith he might be thought to speak partialy on the K. her sonnes behalf yet the two Card. sent by the Pope to heare all this controuersy out of question wil not condemne him without iust cause and yet in a letter sent from them to the Pope they do condemne him c. Yf S. F. proue himself a true K â— in verifying this one poynt which here he sayth I am to pardon much of that which hath passed before But yf in this matter of so great moment he be taken in lyke falshood who wil then trust him hereafter Let vs examine then the matter I wil haue none other euideÌ„ces or witnesses but his owne woords for presently after he setteth downe a part of the letter of VVilliam and Otho Card. sent by Pope Alexander to heare the cause betwene the King the Archbishop and hauing trauayled therin the King being in Normandie and the Archb. at Paris they found the matter more hard then they imagined to compouÌ„d False dealing of Syr Fraunces for that the Archbishop demaunded restitution to his lyuings for himself and for his frends and reuocation of certayne lawes lately made preiudicial to ecclesiastical iurisdiction before he could end the matter wherwith the-sayd Card. being somwhat displeased for that they desired to carry with them to the Pope the glory of this accord made by them and for that the King had much gayned their good wil by liberallity towards theÌ„ for these causes they wrote to the Pope somwhat fauorably in the Kings behalf but yet nothing condemning the Archbishop as vntruly out K â— doth auow which now I shal shew out of the woords of their owne letter alleaged heere by S.F. which are these VVilliam and Otho Card. of the Churche of Rome to Alexander the Pope The letter of the tvvo Cardinals to the Pope â— VVe comming to the land of the K. of England found the controuersy betwixt him and the Archbishop of Canterbury more sharp and vehement then we would for the King the greater part about him said that the Archbishop had sâ—yâ—red vp the french King greuously against him as also the Earle of Flaunders his kinsman who was very louing and kynd to him before whome he made his open aduersary ready to wage warre against him as is by diuers euidences most certayne c. These are the words of the Card. by S. F. relation which supposing they were truly alleaged yet he that shal consider and ponder them wel wil see that out of them no more can be vrged against the Archbishop but