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A10373 The prerogative of parlaments in England proued in a dialogue (pro & contra) betweene a councellour of state and a iustice of peace / written by the worthy (much lacked and lamented) Sir W. R. Kt. ... ; dedicated to the Kings Maiesty, and to the House of Parlament now assembled ; preserued to be now happily (in these distracted times) published ... Raleigh, Walter, Sir, 1552?-1618. 1628 (1628) STC 20649; ESTC S1667 50,139 75

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first so published that all men might plead it for their advantage but a Charter was left in deposito in the hands of the Archbishop of Canterbury for the time and so to his successours Stephen Langthon who was euer a Traytor to the King produced this Charter and shewed it to the Barons thereby encouraging them to make warre against the King Neither was it the old Charter simplie the Barons sought to haue cōfirmed but they presented vnto the King other articles and orders tending to the alteration of the whole common-wealth which when the King refused to signe the Barons presently put themselues into the field and in rebellious and outragious fashion sent the King word except he confirmed them they would not desist from making warre against him till he had satisfied them therein And in conclusion the king being betrayed of all his Nobility in effect was forced to graunt the Charter of Magna Charta and Charta de Forestis at such time as he was invironed with an Army in the meadowes of Staynes which Charters being procured by force Pope Innocent afterward disavowed threatned to curse the Barons if they submitted not themselues as they ought to their Soueraigne Lord which when the Lords refused to obey the King entertained an army of strangers for his own defence wherewith hauing mastered beaten the Barons they called in Lewes of France a most vnnaturall resolution to be their King Neither was Magna charta a law in the 19 th of Henry the 2● but simply a Charter which hee confirmed in the 21 ● of his reigne made it a law in the 25 th according to Littletons opinion Thus much for the beginning of the great Charter which had first an obscure birth from vsurpation and was secondly fostered shewed to the world by rebellion IVST I cannot deny but that all your Lordship hath said is true but seeing the Charters were afterwards so many times confirmed by Parliament made lawes that there is nothing in them vnequall or prejudicial to the King doth not your Honour thinke it reason they should be obserued COVNS Yes obserued they are in all that the state of a King can permit for no man is destroyed but by the lawes of the land no man disseized of his inheritance but by the lawes of the land imprisoned they are by the prerogatiue wherē the King hath cause to suspect their loyaltie for were it otherwise the King should neuer come to the knowledge of any conspiracy or treason against his Person or state and being imprisoned yet doth not any man suffer death but by the law of the land IVST But may it please your Lordship were not Cornewallis Sharpe Hoskins imprisoned being no suspition of treason there COVNS They were but it cost them nothing IVST And what got the King by it for in the conclusion besides the murmure of the people Cornewallis Sharpe Hoskins hauing greatly ouershot themselues and repented them a fine of 5 or 600 l was laid on his Maiesty for their offences for so much their diet cost his Maiestie COVNS I know who gaue the advice sure I am that it was none of mine But thus I say if you consult your memory you shall finde that those kings which did in their own times confirme the Magna Charta did not onely imprison but they caused of their Nobility and others to bee slaine without hearing or tryall IVST My good Lord if you will giue me leaue to speak freely I say that they are not well advised that perswade the King not to admit the Magna Charta with the former reseruations For as the King can neuer loose a farthing by it as I shall proue anon So except England were as Naples is and kept by Garrisons of another Nation it is impossible for a King of England to greaten and inrich himselfe by any way so assuredly as by the loue of his people For by one rebellion the King hath more losse then by a hundred yeares observance of Magna Charta For therein haue our Kings beene forced to compound with Roagues and Rebels and to pardon them yea the state of the King the Monarchie the Nobility haue beene endangered by them COVNS Well Sir let that passe why should not our kings raise mony as the kings of France doe by their letters and Edicts only for since the time of Lewes the 11 th of whom it is said that hee freed the French Kings of their wardship the French Kings haue seldome assembled the States for any contribution IVST I will tell you why the strength of England doth consist of the people and Yeomanry the Pesants of France haue no courage nor armes In France euery Village and Burrough hath a castle which the French call Chastean Villain euery good citty hath a good Cittadell the king hath the Regiments of his guards and his men at armes alwayes in pay yea the Nobility of France in whom the strength of France consists doe alwaies assist their King in those leavies because them selues being free they make the same leavies vpon their tennants But my Lord if you marke it France was neuer free in effect from ciuill warres and lately it was endangered either to be conquered by the Spaniard or to be cantonized by the rebellious French themselues since that freedome of Wardship But my good Lord to leaue this digression that wherein I would willingly satisfie your Lordship is that the kings of England haue neuer receiued losse by Parliament or preiudice COVNS No Sir you shall find that the subiects in Parliament haue decreed great things to the disadvantage and dishonour of our kings in former times IVST My good Lord to avoide confusion I will make a short repetition of them all and then your Lordship may obiect where you see cause And I doubt not but to giue your Lordship satisfaction In the sixt yeare of Henry the 3 rd there was no dispute the house gaue the King two shillings of euery plough land within England and in the end of the same yeare he had escuage paid him to wit for euery knights fee two markes in siluer In the fifth yeare of that King the Lords demaunded the confirmation of the Great Charter which the kings Councell for that time present excused alleadging that those priviledges were extorted by force during the Kings Minoritie and yet the King was pleased to send forth his writ to the Sheriffes of euery county requiring them to certifie what those liberties vvere and hovv vsed in exchange of the Lords demaund because they pressed him so violently the king required all the castles places which the Lords held of his had held in the time of his Father vvith those Manors Lordships vvhich they had heeretofore vvrested from the Crovvne vvhich at that time the King being provided of forces they durst not deny In the 14 th yeare he had the 15 th peny of all goods giuen him vpon condition to
good Lord that a subsidy was then denied the reasons are delivered in Enlish histories indeed the King not long before had spent much treasure in ayding the Duke of Britaine to no purpose for hee drew ouer the King but to drawe on good conditions for himselfe as the Earle of March his father in law now did As the English Barons did invite Lewes of France not long before as in elder times all the kings and states had done and in late yeares the Leaguers of France entertayned the Spaniards and the French Protestants and Netherlands Queene Elizabeth not with any purpose to greaten those that ayde them but to purchase to themselues an advantageous peace But what say the histories to this deniall they say with a world of payments there mentioned that the King had drawne the Nobility drie And besides that whereas not long before great summes of mony were giuen and the same appointed to be kept in foure castles and not to be expended but by the aduice of the Peeres it was beleeved that the same treasure was yet vnspent COVNS Good Sir you haue said enough judge you whether it were not a dishonour to the King to be so tyed as not to expend his treasure but by other mens aduice as it were by their licence IVST Surely my Lord the King was well aduised to take the mony vpon any condition they were fooles that propounded the restraint for it doth not appeare that the King tooke any great heed to those ouerseers Kings are bound by their piety and by no other obligation In Queene Maries time when it was thought that shee was with child it was propounded in Parliament that the rule of the Realme should bee giuen to king Philip during the minority of the hoped Prince or Princesse and the king offered his assurance in great summes of money to relinquish the government at such time as the Prince or Princesse should bee of age At which motion when all else were silent in the house Lord Dueres who was none of the wisest asked who shall sue the kinges bondes which ended the dispute for what bonde is betweene a king and his vassals then the bond of the kinges faith But my good Lord the king notwithstanding the deniall at that time was with gifts from perticular parsons otherwise supplyed for proceeding of his iourney for that time into France he tooke with him 30 caskes filled with silver and coyne which was a great treasure in those dayes And lastly notwithstanding the first denyall in the Kings absence hee had Escuage graunted him to wit 20 s of euery Knights Fee COVNS What say you then to the 28● yeare of that King in which when the King demaunded reliefe the states would not consent except the same former order had bin taken for the appointing of 4 overseers for the treasure As also that the Lord chief Iustice the Lord Chancellor should be chosē by the states with some Barōs of the exchequor other officers IVS My good Lord admit the King had yeelded their demaunds then whatsoever had beene ordained by those magistrates to the dislike of the Common wealth the people had beene without remedie whereas while the King made them they had their appeale and other remedies But those demaunds vanished and in the end the King had escuage giuen him without any of their conditions It is an excellent vertue in a King to haue patience and to giue way to the fury of mens passions The whale when he is stroken by the fisherman growes into that fury that he cannot be resisted but will overthrowe all the ships and barkes that come in to his way but when he hath tumbled a while hee is drawne to the shore with a twind thred COVNS What say you then to the Parliament in the 29 th of that King IVST I say that the commons being vnable to pay the king relieues himselfe vpon the richer sort and soe it likewise happened in the 33 of that king in which hee was relieued chiefely by the Citty of London But my good Lord in the Parliament in London in the 38 yeare he had giuen him the tenth of all the revenues of the Church for three yeares and 3 markes of every knights Fee throughout the kingdome vpō his promise oath vpon the obscruing of magna Charta but in the end of the same yeare the king being thē in France he was denyed the aydes which he required What is this to the danger of a Parliament especially at this time they had reason to refuse they had giuen so great a some in the beginning of the same yeare And again because it was known that the King had but pretended warre with the king of Castile with whome he had secretly contracted an alliance and concluded a marriage betwixt his sonne Edward and the Lady Elenor. These false fires doe but freight Children and it commonly falles out that when the cause giuen is knowne to be false the necessity pretended is thought to be fained Royall dealing hath euermore Royall successe and as the King was denied in the eight thirtyeth yeare so was he denyed in the nine thirtieth yeare because the Nobility and the people saw that the King was abused by the Pope it plainly who aswell in despite to Manfred bastard son to the Emperour Fredericke the second as to cozen the King and to wast him would needes bestowe on the King the kingdome of Sicilie to recouer which the King sent all the treasure he could borrow or scrape to the Pope and withall gaue him letters of credence for to take vp what he could in Italy the King binding himselfe for the payment Now my good Lord the wisdome of Princes is seen in nothing more then in their enterprises So how vnpleasing it was to the State of England to consume the treasure of the land in the conquest of Sicily so farre of and otherwise for that the English had lost Normandy vnder their noses and so many goodly parts of France of their owne proper inheritances the reason of the deniall is as well to be considered as the denyall CONS Was not the King also denyed a subsidie in the fourty first of his raigne IVST No my Lord for although the King required mony as before for the impossible conquest of Sicily yet the house offered to giue 52000 markes which whether hee refused or accepted is vncertaine whilst the King dreamed of Sicily the Welsh inuaded spoyled the borders of England for in the Parliament of London when the King vrged the house for the prosecuting the cōquest of Sicily the Lords vtterly disliking the attempt vrged the prosecuting of the Welshmen which Parlament being proroged did again assemble at Oxford was called the madde Parlamēt which was no other thē an assembly of rebels for the Royall assent of the K. which giues life to all lawes form'd by the three estates was not a Royal assent when both
the K. the Prince were cōstrained to yeeld to the Lords A cōstrained consent is the consent of a Captiue not of a K. therefore there was nothing done there either legally or royally For if it be not properly a Parliament where the subiect is not free certainely it can be none where the King is bound for all Kingly rule was taken from the King and twelue Peeres appointed and as some writers haue it 24 Peeres to gouerne the Realme and therefore the assembly made by Iack Strawe other rebels may aswell bee called a Parliament as that of Oxford Principis nomen habere non est esse Princeps for thereby was the King driuen not only to cōpoūd all quarrels with the French but to haue meanes to be revenged on the rebell Lords but he quitted his right to Normādy Aniou Mayne COVNS But sir what needed this extremity seeing the Lords required but the confirmation of the former Charter which was not preiudiciall to the King to graunt IVST Yes my good Lord but they insulted vpon the King and would not suffer him to enter into his own castles they put downe the Purvey or of the meate for the maintenance of his house as if the King had beene a bankrupt and gaue order that without ready money he should not take vp a Chicken And though there is nothing against the royalty of a King in these Charters the Kings of England beeing Kings of freemen and not of slaues yet it is soe contrary to the nature of a King to bee forced euen to those thinges which may be to his advantage as the King had some reason to seeke the dispensation of his oath from the Pope and to drawe in strangers for his owne defence yea Iure saluo Coronae nostrae is intended inclusiuely in all oathes and promises exacted from a Soueraigne COVNS But you cānot be ignorant how dangerous athing it is to cal in other natiōs both for the spoile they make as also so because they haue often held the possession of the best places with which they haue beene trusted IVST It is true my good Lord that there is nothing so daungerous for a King as to be constrained and held as prisoner to his vassals for by that Edward the second and Richard the second lost their Kingdomes and their liues And for calling in of strangers was not King Edward the sixth driuen to call instrangers against the rebels in Norfolke Cornewall Oxfordshire and elsewhere Haue not the K s. of Scotland beene oftentimes constrained to entertaine strangers against the Kings of England And the King of England at this time had he not bin diuerse times assisted by the Kings of Scotlād had bin endāgered to haue bin expelled for ever COVNS But yet you knowe those Kings were deposed by Parliament IVST Yea my good Lord being Prisoners being out of possession and being in their hands that were Princes of the blood and pretenders It is an old countrey prouerbe that might overcomes right a weake title that weares a strong sword commonly prevailes against a strong title that weares but a weake one otherwise Philip the second had never bin Duke of Portugal nor Duke of Millayne nor K. of Naples Scicilie But good Lord Errores not sunt trah udi in exemplum I speake of regall peaceable and lawfull Parliaments The King at this time was but a King in name for Glocester Leycester and Chichester made choise of other Nyne to whom the rule of the Realme was committed the Prince was forced to purchase his liberty frō the Earle of Leycester by giuing for his ransome the County Pallatine of Chester But my Lord let vs judge of those occasions by their events what became of this proud Earle was hee not soone after slaine in Euesham was he not left naked in the field and left a shamefull spectacle his head being cut off from his shoulders his priuy parts from his body laid on each side of his nose And did not God extinguish his race after which in a lawfull parliament at Westminster confirmed in a following parliament of Westminster were not all the Lords that followed Leycester disinherited And when that foole Glocester after the death of Leycester whom he had formerly forsaken made himselfe the head of a second rebellion and called in strangers for which not lōg before he had cried out against the K. was not hee in the end after that hee had seene the slaughter of so many of the Barons the spoile of their castles Lordships constrained to submit himselfe as all the suruiuers did of which they that sped best payd their sines and ransomes the King reserving to his younger sonne the Earledomes of Leycester and Derby COVN Well sir we haue disputed this King to his graue though it be true that he outliued all his enimies brought them to confusion yet those examples did not terrifie their successors but the Earle Marshall and Hereford threatned King Edward the first with a new warre IVST They did so but after the death of Hereford the Earle Marshall repented himselfe and to gaine the Kings favour he made him heire of all his lands But what is this to the Parliament for there was never K. of this land had more giuen him for the time of his raigne then Edward the sonne of Henry the third had COVNS How doth that appeare IVST In this sort my good Lord in this kings third yeare he had giuen him the fifteenth part of all goods In his sixt yeare a twentith In his twelfth yeare a twentyeth In his fourteenth yeare hee had escuage to wit forty shillings of euery knights Fee in his eighteenth yeare hee had the eleventh part of all moueable goods within the kingdome in his nineteenth yeare the tenth part of all Church liuings in England Scotland and Ireland for sixe yeares by agreement from the Pope in his three twentith yeare he raised a taxe vpō wooll and fels on a day caused all the religious houses to be searched al the treasure in thē to be seized brought to his coffers excusing himselfe by laying the fault vpō his treasurer he had also in the end of the same yeare of algoods of all Burgesses of the Commons the 10 ● part in the 25 ● yeare of the Parliamēt of S t Edmūdsbury he had an 18 th part of the goods of the Burgesses and of the people in generall the tenth part Hee had also the same yeare by putting the Clergy out of his protection a fift part of their goods and in the same yeare he set a great taxe vpon wools to wit from halfe a marke to 40 ● vpon euery sacke wherevpon the Earle Marshall and the Earle of Hereford refusing to attend the King into Flanders pretended the greeuances of the people But in the end the king hauing pardoned thē cōfirmed the great Charter he had the ninth penny of all goods from the Lords and
they neuer so great as great as Gyants yet if they disswade the King from his ready and assured way of his subsistence they must devise how the K. may be else-where supplied for they otherwise runne into a dangerous fortune COVNS Hold you contented Sir the King needes no great disswasion IVST My Lord learne of me that there is none of you all that can pierce the King It is an essentiall property of a man truely wise not to open all the boxes of his bosome even to those that are neerest and deerest vnto him for when a man is discovered to the very bottome he is after the lesse esteemed I dare vndertake that when your Lordship hath served the King twice twelue yeares more you will finde that his Majestie hath reserved somewhat beyond all your capacities his Majestie hath great reason to put off the Parliament as his last refuge and in the meane time to make triall of all your loues to serue him for his Majestie hath had good experience how well you can serue your selues But when the King finds that the building of your owne fortunes and factions hath beene the diligent studies and the service of his Majestie but the exercises of your leisures Hee may then perchance cast himself vpon the general loue of his people of which I trust hee shall never bee deceiued and leaue as many of your Lordships as haue pilfered from the Crowne to their examination COVNS Well Sir I take no great pleasure in this dispute goe on I pray IVST In that Kinges 5 th yeare hee had also a subsedy which he got by holding the house together from Easter to Christmas and would not suffer them to depart He had also a subsedie in his ninth yeare In his eleventh yeare the Commons did againe presse the king to take all the temporalities of the Church-men into his hands which they proved sufficient to maintaine 150 Earles 1500 knights and 6400 Esquiers with a hundred hospitals but they not prevayling gaue the King a subsedy As for the notorious Prince Henry the fift I finde that he had given him in his second yeare 300000 markes and after that two other subsedies one in his fifth yeare another in his ninth without any disputes In the time of his successour Henry the sixt there where not many subsedies In his third yeare he had a subsedy of a Tunnage and Poundage And here saith Iohn Stom began those payments which wee call customes because the payment was continued whereas before that time it was granted but for a yeare two or three according to the Kings occasions Hee had also an ayde and gathering of money in his fourth yeare and the like in his tenth yeare and in his thirteenth yere a 15 th He had also a fifteenth for the conveying of the Queene out of France into England In the twenty eight yeare of that King was the acte of Resumption of all honours townes castles Signieuries villages Manors lands tenements rents reversions fees c. But because the wages of the Kings seruants were by the strictnes of the acte also restrained this acte of Resumption was expounded in the Parliament at Reading the 31 th yeare of the Kings reigne COVNS I perceiue that those acts of Resumption were ordinary in former times for King Stephen resumed the lands which in former times hee had giuen to make friends during the Ciuill warres And Henry the second resumed all without exception which King Stephen had not resumed for although King Stephen tooke backe a great deale yet hee suffered his trustiest seruants to enjoye his gift IVST Yes my Lord in after times also for this was not the last nor shall be the last I hope And judge you my Lord whether the Parliaments doe not only serue the King whatsoeuer is said to the contrary for as all King Henry the 6 gifts graunts were made voide by the Duke of Yorke when he was in possession of the kingdome by Parliament So in the time of K. H. when K. Edw was beaten out again the Parliament of Westminster made all his acts voyde made him all his followers traytors gaue the King many of their heads lands The Parliaments of England do alwaies serue the King in possession It seru'd Rich. the second to condemne the popular Lords It seru'd Bollingbrooke to depose Rich. When Edw. the 4. had the Scepter it made them all beggars that had followed H. the 6. And it did the like for H. when Edw. was driuen out The Parliaments are as the friendship of this world is which alwayes followeth prosperity For K. Edw. the 4 after that hee was possessed of the Crown he had in his 13 yeare a subsedy freely giuen him in the yeare following hee tooke a benevolence through England which arbitrary taking frō the people seru'd that ambitious traytor the Duke of Bucks After the Kings death was a plausible argument to perswade the multitude that they should not permit saith Sir Thomas Moore his line to raigne any longer vpon them COVNS Well Sir what say you to the Parliament of Richard the third his time IVST I finde but one and therein he made diuerse good Lawes For K. Henry the seuenth in the beginning of his third yeare hee had by Parliament an ayde granted vnto him towards the reliefe of the Duke of Brittaine then assailed by the French King And although the King did not enter into the warre but by the advice of the three estates who did willingly contribute Yet those Northerne men which loued Richard the third raised rebellion vnder colour of the mony impos'd murthered the Earle of Northumberland whom the King employed in that Collection By which your Lordship sees that it hath not beene for taxes and impositions alone that the ill disposed haue taken Armes but euen for those payments which haue beene appoynted by Parliament COVNS And what became of those Rebels IVST They were fairely hang'd and the mony levied notwithstanding in the Kings first yeare he gathered a marvailous great masse of mony by a benevolence taking patterne by this kind of levie from Edw. 4 th But the King caused it first to be moued in Parliament where it was allowed because the poorer sort were therein spared Yet it is true that the king vsed some arte for in his Letters hee declared that hee would measure euery mans affections by his gifts In the thirteenth yeare hee had also a subsedy whereupon the Cornish men tooke Armes as the Northerne men of the Bishoppricke had done in the third yeare of the King COVNS It is without example that euer the people haue rebelled for any thing granted by Parliament saue in this kings dayes IVST Your Lordship must consider that he was not ouer much belou'd for hee tooke many advantages vpon the people and the Nobility both COVNS And I pray you what say they now of the new impositions lately laide by the Kings Maiesty doe they say that