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B09464 Animadversions on the defence of the answer to a paper, intituled The case of the dissenting Protestants of Ireland, in reference to a bill of indulgence from the exceptions made against it together with an answer to a peaceable & friendly address to the non-conformists written upon their desiring an act of toleration without the sacramental test. Mac Bride, John.; Pullen, Tobias, 1648-1713. Defence of the ansvver to a paper intituled The case of the dissenting Protestants. 1697 (1697) Wing M114; ESTC R180238 76,467 116

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his first cause of this fear viz. The many thousand Families that are come out of Scotland whether the Government will judge it the Interest of the Kingdom to hinder its Planting with his Majesties Industrious and Loyal Subjects to gratify the D. and cure him and the Irish Papists of their fears is very doubtful But I believe those who value the Protestant and Brittish Interest in Ireland could wish that many more thousand Protestant Families were Planted here tho they were not all of the D's persuasion nor do we see that this would lessen the Revenue and Strength of the Kingdom abate Gentlemens Rents spoil the Nations Trade nor hinder the Clergys Tythes so that it is questionable wherein the Nations Interest can be to obstruct Protestants settling here If his fears be because such are Scotch 't is but the ordinary effect of such panic fear as to bereave Men of considerate thoughts which seems to be the D's Case For beside the little Religion he Evidenceth in his Antipathy against that Nation there is as little policy as piety in its seeing the Nobility and Gentry of that Kingdom whom he boasts to be Members of this Establisht Church cannot but resent such a publick affront done to their Nation To the second cause of his fear viz. Their Preachers Zeal to the Covenant If by it he means the National Covenant Subscribed by King James the 6th and all Ranks of Persons in Scotland in 1580 1581 and 1590 they will own it as the antient Confession of that National Church and we suppose his Scotch Episcopal Brethren dare not disown it seeing it was a part of that Contradictory Test which they impos'd the old professional part contradicting the new promissory part but we suppose he intends the solemn League and Covenant and here we believe he may be mistaken of their Zeal for that as it is a League with England and Ireland obliging them to a Reformation seeing as a these Leagues formerly made with France oblige England since the French have violated them The Antidote against Ireland's Planting by Protestant Subjects from Scotland smels rank of National Antipathy and smites his Majesty King William with his now blessed Consort Queen Mary as Plaguers of that Nation by Abolishing Episcopacy but yet let this Antidote be no worse than its words are and we refuse not to perform a just quarentine and undergo any truly Religious Test that His Majesty shall think necessary to promote God's Glory the Nations Peace and Prosperity by Yet Experience hath found some of these called Religious Tests to be National Pests and should others observe them no better then the D. and some of his Brethren have done the Government may possibly be rendered more secure but not more safe by them But we perceive the D's fears are increasing and therefore he would have all the Nation Allarm'd with the Danger of the Cameronians who as he saith are lately Landed in considerable Numbers A. These considerable Numbers of Cameronians lately landed must have come from Vutopia for there be no considerable Numbers of them now in Scotland and other Nations bring forth no such Fruit For since the late happy Revolution all except very few unite with the Establish't Church there and their Preachers now orderly and ordain'd Ministers one whereof is a Chaplain to a Regiment in Flanders and in good esteem with his Majesty for his Zeal and Courage whereof he hath given good proof And we dare say that those whom he calls so dangerous have spent more blood in the defence of the Protestant Religion and in the Service of their King and Countrey both at home and abroad than all the Episcopal Clergy in Brittain and Ireland for the truth of which we doubt not but the best of the three Nations will vouch But while he is allarming the Kingdom with 〈◊〉 from 〈…〉 doth he not also as a Faithful Watchman warn it of his Jacobitish Brethren who swarms hither daily and notwithstanding their publickly declar'd Contempt of His Majesty's Government and Authority in denying Allegiance to him in Scotland are entertain'd as bosom Friends by some Clergy-men in Ireland tho they perform'd not their quarantine by swearing Allegiance to K. William And if the Government desire satisfaction in this matter they may by search of Records in the several Counties where they are entertain'd find out the truth of this and much more concerning such course men The Vindicator had told That there had been avowed designs of Extirpating Protestant Dissenters declared by many Sanguinary Laws past against them both in England and Scotland and that there were later ones in Scotland that made it capital to be present at their Meetings which the D. reckons unpardonable disingenuity 't is well it is not the sin against the Holy Ghost and to prove it these irrefragable Arguments are produced 1. He never heard it 2. He is inform'd by those who have reason to know better then the Vindicator that there is not one Sanguinary Law in England against Protestant Dissenters and in Scotland not one except one which was August 13. 1670. A. To his first demonstration taken from his not hearing it it seems his ears are of a prodigious length when every matter both of Fact and Law must be within the sphere of their activity if things cease to be because he heard them not a great many have had no being of whom he never heard The next from his Informer is little better for Episcopal Informers have not been always men of the best reputation yet it is strange that they should be ignorant of those Laws by which they had so much of other mens wealth but it 's like that being now out of date they are not fond of owning their old friends lest they should purchase new Enemies But if the D. who sees by his Neighbours eyes will receive truer Instruction from a Dissenter we will make appear that what the Vindicator asserts is real truth To begin then with England because its Laws against Dissenters are of eldest date we will find that Sanguinary Laws were there First against the Soul Secondly against the Body Thirdly against the Estates of Protestant Dissenters And to give the Church the deserv'd pre-eminence in this case by her Canons made Anno 1603. eleven of these in the Van are levelled against Dissenters by most of which they are to be excommunicated ipso facto and not to be restored but by the A. Bishop after Repentance and a publick Recantation of such wicked Errors And when by this Canonical Cimiter they are cut off from the Church Militant and by vertue of the keys of Heaven committed to it the gates of Heaven which it seems were formerly potent are now shut against Dissenters and alti janua ditis made open and they delivered to the Devil lest he should prove too merciful in not receiving their Mittimus the poor Dissenters by a Writ De Excommunicato Capiendo is to be apprehended by
this silly shift of bending the Knee in the Eucharist which came in with Popery they call indifferent and well know we will not do contrary to our Conscience while they do not try us with the Doctrinal Articles for a Test let all Wise Men judge of this Policy and Religion His second Observation of Dissenters growing much more tumultuous since the Legal Indulgence hath been granted them I apprehend hath been made by the D. in his Dream arising from frightful Ideas he hath of the Dissenters for sure since the commencement of a Legal Indulgence in 1689. no instance of Dissenters Tumults can be produc'd Tho' we can instance Bloody Tumults Rebellions and Conspiracies against the King and Government carried on by those who call themselves the Sons of the Church both in England and Scotland in which no Presbyterian hath been concern'd The V. having desired to know from the D. wherein a Toleration to Dissenting Protestants will advance the Popish Interest in Ireland he promiseth to give a full and ample satisfaction in this matter And 1st He desires him seriously to consider whether there be not violent presumption that a publick Legal Indulgence to Protestants doth not highly advance the Popish Interest since all Romish Emissaries so eagerly desire and industriously promote Tolerations tho limited to Protestant Dissenters and when all other measures fail'd have readily expended considerable Summs of Money to purchase them And it is generally known that the Declaration A. 1671 2. was of the Papists procuring A. If this Declaration was not granted in favor of the Dissenters in Ireland as he knows it was not his Answer can't satisfy the V's demand who would only know wherein a Toleration to Dissenters in Ireland wou'd advance the Popish Interest here but the Declaration he speaks of seems to be that emitted in England A. 1691 2 and then he most disingenuously represents the matter for it was procured by an Exigence of State Affairs England then being engaged in a War against Holland it was thought unsafe to persecute so numerous and wealthy a part of the Nation as Protestant Dissenters then were and in the interim to carry on a War against their Friends abroad therefore to keep matters at home as quiet as possible a Declaration for Indulgence was Published but so far from limiting the Indulgence to Protestant Dissenters that Popish Recusants had apparently the greatest share in that Liberty which so much disgusted the Nation that the King was necessitated to make Apology for it as appears by his Speech to the Parliament Feb. 5. An. 1672. In which he saith I put forth my Declaration for Indulgence to Dissenters and have hitherto found the good effect of it There is one part that is subject to mis-construction which is that concerning the Papists as if more liberty were granted to them than to other Recusants when it is plain there is less I do not intend to prejudice the Church but will support its Religion in its full Power having said I shall take it very ill to receive Contradiction in what I have done and I will deal plainly with you I am Resolved to stick to my Declaration The Lord Chancellor also spake the same thing viz. His Majesty hath so fully Vindicated his Declaration from that Calumny concerning the Papists that no reasonable scruple can be made against it by any good Man he hath sufficiently justify'd it by the time it was Published in the Effects he hath had from it and might have done it more from the agreeableness of it to his own natural Disposition which no good English-man could wish other ways than it is he loves not blood nor rigorous severities but where mild and gentle methods may be used by a Prince he is certain to chuse them and concludes that head thus But His Majesty is not convinced that violent Ways are the Interest of Religion or the Church By this we may see if the D. doth not Rival the V. in setting as he saith of him things in a false light for what can be less candid than this Representation of that matter Seeing 1. There was no legal Toleration but a Liberty granted by a Declaration which is questionable whether Law or not 2. Nor was it limitted to Protestant Dissenters only but included also Papists Nor 3dly Procured by mony By this we may see the merciless disposition of some Church-Men who first extort from the Magistrate Rigorous Laws and then reproach Dissenters for disloyalty in not obeying them which they have squeezed from the Magistrate contrary to his Inclination and Interest The D's second Argument to prove that the free exercise of Protestant Religion according to different Modes will advance the Popish Interest here is drawn from his experience for saith he when Protestant Dissenters or as he calls them pretended Protestants have been Legally Indulged it hath been experimentally found that Popish Emissaries were more numerous their Application greater and Harvest more plenteous than at other times A. If the D. had as sincerely intended as he vainly promised ample satisfaction in this point he would have instanc'd the time when and place where a legal Indulgence granted to Protestant Dissenters produc'd that effect for tho he values his own testimony as demonstration others do not for it appears not that this fell out in Queen Elizabeth's K. James's or K. Charle's 1st time it then must be either in Oliver's time as by the date of Bishop Bramhall's Letter in 1659 which he cites would appear but then the Papists do not glory in their Harvest here unless it was that many of them were cut down at the same rate being set on a Priest's Head in Ireland as on a Wolf which occasion'd Emissaries to be never less numerous than then or after the Restauration of K C. 2d during whose Reign Dissenters had no Legal Indulgence here tho we confess the application of Papists was strong the Harvest plentiful and Emissaries numerous or for King James the 2d's time in which no such Toleration limited to Dissenters was thought on The charge then must lye on K. W. and Q. M. since 1689. but then his experience will be found false for neither we bless God for it are Popish Emissaries so numerous as in former times have been nor their harvest so plentiful nay we have found it experimentally that when Protestant Dissenters has been violently Persecuted Popish Emissaries has been most warmly Entertain'd for when Dissenters in the North of this Kingdom were forced in the beginning of K. C. I's Reign to undertake a troublesome Voyage to America there to shelter themselves from Persecution tho' providentially driven back then a Toleration for Papists here was granted Concerning Bp. Bramhall's Letter to Primate Vsher produc'd to prove his experience Anno 1659. in which 't is said that several of the Popish Clergy of France were taught manual Trades to qualify them as Emissaries to foment divisions in England A few Instances given of these
the Sheriffs or his Bayliffs and without Bail or Main-prize cast into Prison there to lye till he for or recan● by which he is depriv'd of the benefit of the Law and Clergy both Now if this be no sanguinary Law to cast men out of the Church out of which they teach there is no Salvation and to deprive them of their Liberty and Protection of the Laws only for impugning the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church of England according to the 6th Canon and at once to cut men off from their part of Heaven and Earth unless they would counter-act their Conscience let the World judge Secondly the Civil Laws made against Dissenters in England were sanguinary if that may be construed such which deprives men of Livelihood and Liberty For 1. The Act of Uniformity by which If any Minister convicted to have refused to use the Church Service or to have used any other Rite or Ceremony Order Form or Manner than what is set down in the Common-Prayer-Book he loseth a whole years profit and must undergo six months Imprisonment for the first fault For the second to be deprived and suffer a whole years Imprisonment For the third he is to be deprived and Imprisoned during life and if he be not a Beneficed person for the first fault he is to be imprisoned a whole year and for the second during life So that a man for not using the Cross in Baptism and Kneeling at the Sacrament things which God never required must be depriv'd of his Office Livelihood and Liberty and thus starv'd in Prison but for this perhaps the D. hath a Turkish distinction that strangling is no shedding of Blood and yet we reckon he wou'd judge it sanguinary were he tryed by it But farther all persons not resorting to the Church on Sundays and Holy-days are to be fined 12 d. per day and to incur the Censures of the Church which according to Canon 9 11 12 is Excommunication ipso facto with its appurtenances yea by Canon 10 if we shall dare to say that we have long time groaned under the burthen of certain Grievances imposed upon us we are to be Excommunicated and not restored until we repent and publickly retract such our publick Errors 2. Act is that made in the 13 Eliz. to which every person not repairing to Church according to Statute 1 Eliz. The second shall forfeit 20l. for every month if they so make default and if they forbear for the space of 12 months they are to be bound with two sufficient Sureties in 200 l. Bonds to good Behaviour And by a Statute 29 Eliz. All Grants made by such Offenders which are by them revocable intended for his maintenance left at his disposal or in consideration whereof he and his Family are to be kept shall be utterly void against the Queen for the levying the forfeitures for not coming to the Church and the Queen may seize all the Goods and two thirds of the Lands and Leases of every Offender not repairing to Church as aforesaid which after their first conviction do not pay at the next Term at the rate of 20 l. per month and tho the party be not in the Realm the Indictment is to lye and upon an Indictment found a Proclamation is to be made that such Offender is to render himself to the Sheriff before the next Assizes which if he do not he is to be held Convict These who are not able to pay their Forfeitures are to be committed to Prison till they pay or conform which if they refuse makes the Imprisonment perpetual And 35 Queen Eliz. It is Enacted That if any above Sixteen absent themselves from Church above a Month or frequent Conventicles or persuade any other so to do they shall be committed to Prison there to continue till he or she Conform and make open submission and confess that they have grievously offended God c. And if within three Months they refuse to Conform and make such submission they are to abjure the Realm and if they refuse to abjure or return after without leave they are to be proceeded against as Fellons and have no benefit of Clergy This we suppose was literally a Sanguinary Law Again by a Statute the 16 Car. 2d this 35 Q. Eliz. was revived And farther Anno 17. Car. 2d Non-conformists who take not the Oxford Oath there set down which is this I A. B. do Swear that it is not lawful on any pretence whatsoever to take up Arms against the King and that I abhor that Trayterous Position of taking up Arms by his Authority against his Person or against those that are Commissionat by him in pursuance of such Commissions and that I will not endeavour any Alteration of Government either in Church or State Likewise If any Nonconformist Minister Preach in a Conventicle or come within 5 Miles of any City or Corporation or place of his Ministry except on his Journey or summoned by a Subpena he shall forfeit 40l Furthermore the Crimes in 22 Car. 2d against Conventicles are 1. To be present at an Assembly under colour of Exercise of Religion any other way then according to the Liturgy c. where 5 Persons or more besidess those of the Family are 2dly If any take on him to Teach or Preach in such Meetings for the first Offence he forfeits 20l. For the second 40 pounds c. 3d ly If any person suffer such Meeting to be in his House Out-House Back-side or Garden for his first Offence he is to pay twenty pounds for the second 40 pounds c. and every Hearer five shillings with Ecclesiastical Censures which is Excommunication ipso facto according to the 11th Canon Now from all this we leave it to the judgment even of Adversaries themselves whether the Vindicator might not assert that there were sanguinary Laws in England design'd to extirpate Protestant Dissenters in exerting whereof the Prelates of the Nation had a warm Vote tho' now blessed be God they be abolished by Act 1689. His vindicating Scotland against the guilt of sanguinary Laws against Dissenters is proof that he hears ill else the cry of that Blood shed there by vertue of these Laws which hath even reached Heaven and brought deserved Vengeance upon the shedders thereof might have pierc'd his ears and that he sees ill if he sees not these Laws yet in record but his own confession that there was one sanguinary Law tho he borrow'd Sir Geo. Makenzy's Commentar on it is a sufficient proof of a design to extirpate Protestant Dissenters there seeing that one Law De Heretico Comburendo as employ'd in England by Q. Mary was supposed sufficient to extirpate the Protestant Religion out of England but had he not design'd to blind-fold his Reader a little more pains and honesty might have enabled him to discover many sanguinary Laws in Scotland of which take these few instances The 1 st Parliament of C. the 2 d. Sess 1. Act 4. It was
Dissenters in Ireland tho' it prov'd fatal to its Contrivers was by God's Providence a means of preserving the Dissenters who forsaking the Nation on that account were preserved from the Massacre 1641 and these same persons returning were the first relief that Ireland got which can be made evident by many yet alive and may be instructive to pasterity The V. having to prove the equity of giving free-born Subjects the same legal Indulgence in their Dissenting as is given to Foreigners asserted that the French Protestants if left to their liberty would chuse a Discipline and Worship more conformable to their own than that of the Establish't Church Hath this Answer We are not to pass judgment on a particular Church from the inconsiderate words and actions of some of the meaner sort of the Laity but by the solemn Declarations and constant Practices of the Learned Clergy of that Communion And to shew the Sentiments of the French Church produceth a triple testimony of three French Divines in favor of the Establish't Church and censuring the Dissenters separation from it from three Letters written fifteen years ago on this Subject by Monsieur Lamoyne M. D. Langle and M. Cloud which we shall not transcribe But 1. We think it strange that the Bishops of the Church of England shou'd own the French Protestants to be a Churh and to have a learned Clergy when in the mean time they deny them to have a Lawful Ordained Ministry and force them to be Re-ordained who come for Refuge into England and are willing to conform So that this seems to be but a complement given for these 3 Letters and no sincere acknowledgment of their being a Church A Reverend French Minister informs us that flying from Persecution into England he with some others were permitted to Preach in London but upon his refusal to be Re-ordained he was not only hindred to Preach by the Bishop of London but deny'd any part of the publick Charity collected for the French Protestants and so was necessitated to leave England The same entertainment others of them met with here in Ireland about Anno 1680 or 1682 who flying to Dublin and setting up the beginnings of several useful Manufactures but being averse to joyn in the Church-Service a certain charitable Peer lent them his House to Worship in where they served God according to the manner of the French Churches whereupon their Minister was seized imprison'd c. until for obtaining his liberty he consented to quit or abjure the Kingdom And yet Liberty was publickly allow'd the Papists And we are well informed how the Papists now insult over them as having by their disowning the validity of their own former Ordination and being Re-ordain'd by Bishops in England thereby declared that they have hitherto been no Church have had no Sacraments lawfully Administred among them which is a great addition to their former miseries so that whether it be worse to destroy the being of that Church in all time past or persecute some of its Members in time present be the greater severity and so whether the Popish or English Clergy have been more merciful to the Protestant Church of France we leave to be consider'd 2. The Testimony of these 3 Men are not the solemn Declaration and constant practice of that Church as he vainly says but the opinion of three private Doctors to whom he might oppose the Judgment of 3000 and the constant known practice of that Church solemnly declared in its publick Confessions of Faith and Synodical Constitutions disowning the Form of Worship and Disciplin of the Church of England And it seems as unequal to judge of a Church by the Sentiments of several of her learn'd Clergy as by the Laity What a Monster would the Church of England be if we were left to judge of her by the several opinions of her Learned Clergy whereof some approve others condemn Arminiasm some are passive obedient Doctors others not some for Episcopacy jure Divino others think it only jure Humano some have been for others are now against Liberty of Prophesying c. The justest way then of judging what are the sentiments of a Church is neither by the private practices or opinions of Clergy or Lay-men but by their Unanimous deliberate and publickly declared Judgment in their Confessions of Faith and Synodical Constitutions which had he produc'd against us had been some service to his cause And we have just cause to except against the Evidence Some of whom have conformed and have disgrac'd their Church by renouncing its Ordination so that these who have dishonor'd their Parents will little regard their Brethren 3. We know that indirect means have been used to obtain such Testimonies against us and can tell of one who had 4 good fat Benefices in England with a Faculty of Non-residence to Enable him to Traffick in France introducing Dissenters and Exalting and vindicating the Prelacy and Ceremonies of England 4. The Testimonies are not fairly produc'd but a part conceal'd of the Letters which had he repeated would have condemn'd himself And therefore M. Cloud in his Letter as Published by Dr. Stillingfleet p. 448. hath this I hope my Lord you will not be wanting in the Duties of Charity and Spirit of Peace and that when the dispute shall be only of some Ceremonies which are stumbling blocks and which in themselves are nothing in comparison of an intire re-union of your Church under your holy Ministry you will make it seen that you love the Spouse of your Master more than your selves And that it is not so much from your greatness and Ecclesiastical Dignity that you desire to receive your joy and glory as from your Pastoral Vertues and the ardent care you take of your Flocks M. De Langle tells you that even amongst these separating Brethren there is a very great Number of good Men whose Faith is pure Piety sincere And it seems to me that the good and charitable Bishops ought to say of them as Optatus Melivitatus said of the Donatists in something a different sense Si Collegium Episcopate notunt habere nobiscum tamen fratres sunt And I 'me sure saith he that if there were nothing wanting to cure your Divisions but tho abstaining from some Expressions the quitting some Ceremonies the changing the colour of some Habits you would resolve to do that and something more difficult But this the D. disingenuously conceals because of his Moderation which is contrary to his Nature or Design The V. having asserted also that a further security ought to be granted to Protestant Dissenters than to Papists for this reason that some difference should be made between them who deserve well and them who deserve ill of the Govarnment The D. allowing the reasoning to be unque6ionably true yet will have it understood with this supposition that if the Civil Parent be forced by the pressure of some unfortunate occurrences to a concession of such favorable and advantagious