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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A70943	An answer to Mr. William Prynn's twelve questions concerning church government at the end whereof, are mentioned severall grosse absurdities, and dangerous consequences of highest nature, which do necessarily follow the tenets of Presbyteriall, or any other besides a perfect independent government : together with certaine qveries.	Robinson, Henry, 1605?-1664?; Burton, Henry, 1578-1648.	1644 (1644)	Wing R1665; ESTC R17515	26,672	28

more spirituall obedience than Scripture permitteth you or give him a part of the spirituall power which you have received of God It is only in God who can give power therein to any man we dare not be so bold p. 28. Now if this doctrine be Presbyterian and Presbyterian good and that deny unto nay make the Civill Magistrate disclaime all authority in matters of Religion with what justice are Independents censured as subverters of the Civill powers for saying but the same If it be objected that A. S. seems to be of another opinion in other passages let but the objecters reconcile him to himselfe and the great controversie between Independents and Presbyterians will be well neere composed But that you may see the Independents assume no greater liberty of dissenting from their brethren in matters of opinion than is warrantable by the Presbyterian rule See likewise what A. S. sayes p. 22. to wit It is safe even for a few men to dissent from all the World if they have very strong reason for their dissent p. 28. Particular congregations are not subject unto the judgement of Senates or Assemblies but according to the word of God and lastly It is holden for a certaine and undoubted maxime amongst all Procestants that the Church has no absolute power in her judgements c. You your selfe cannot say lesse unlesse you make an Idoll of them yet if you will but grant them thus much they are totally and sincerely the Civill Magistrates and yours in all the rest In your third Intergatory you insinuate That the Independents conceive a right and liberty of gathering to themselves such as are Parishioners of 20 other godly Ministers by the established laws and customes which you say our solemns Vow and Covenant obligeth us to maintaine Good Sir tell me Are they the Episcopall Laws of England the Presbyteriall Laws of Scotland or the popish Laws of Ireland which you call established Laws for the whole Kingdome of Ireland both representative and represented will now no doubt he able to declare by Club-law wherein your best argument and strength consists that the Popish are now the established Laws of Ireland which of them is it your expect us to be engaged to by out solemne Vow and Covenant for doubtlesse there are many who thinke the Covenant obliges us unto all three alike in their respective senses for no few both Popish Episcopall Presbyteriall and Independent men have taken it in no other The Popish I conceive you will renounce though by your owne manner of arguing you cannot even at present get cleare thereof as touching Ireland nor England when ere we have a Popish Parliament againe As touching Episcopacy I presume you understand of a Bill prepared for its extirpation and why may not Presbytery be kept out as lawfully if the State and Nation shall thinke fitting according to your second-considerable Question wherein since you doe in effect gratifie a Parliament and Presbyteriall Synod with a power of setting up a Nationall Church Government and Religion and in your fourth Interrogatory you tell us That Kings and Parliaments have the selfe same jurisdiction in and over all Ecclesiasticall matters which are not positively of divine institution and injunction as in and over temporall will it not follow by the same argument that a Popish or Episcopall King and Parliament may doe or have the same in England and in Ireland But have you not in these two lines said in effect That men must conforme to Presbyteriall Episcopall or Popish rites and government to all alike if King and Parliament be such whilest they proclaime them to be according to the Word of God Nay may not this present Assembly whom you court with most orthodox pious conscientious learned Ministers especially selected 2 Interg taking up your owne words call this a cursed project or new kinde of Gunpowder 2 Interg whereby you have left them nothing to debate or give consent to but what the King and Parliament might doe without them for where finde we warrant for assembling of a Synod to debate or decree any thing which was before positively divine institution and injunction and for all the rest have you not granted it to King and Parliament Surely you have no way to make the covetous amongst the Clergie amends for this escape of yours unlesse you vindicate their tithes this and this only may yet procure your pardon indulgency you drive it forward with a gentle blow both in the beginning and end of your 3 Interg concerning which having given them as briefe a touch in my Answer to your 12 Question I referre you to what else is said in this behalfe more largely in the Bloody Tenet not so bloody a tractate as your dozens of Questions and Interrogatoryes Compassionate Samaritan fitter to deal with your immedicable vni●u● and John the Baptist who cried Prepare the way of the Lord Mat 3. 3. whereas your Questions Interrogatories prepare the wayes of men only crying Room room for Proclamations Decrees which require the consciences of Gods Saints to be subjected thereunto as if they had authority to say It seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and them it should be so Act. 15 28. But if Episcopacie be guilty and condemned both root and branch must not Presbytery have it Mittimus and packe away therewith where are the branches of Episcopacie to be found unlesse amongst the Presbyters how can Episcopacie be Antichristian and the Presbyters who have no other Ministery require the same Jewish tithes and though formerly but subordinately doe now joyntly execute the same dominion over the consciences of their brethren But if you meane that we are bound by the League and Covenant to maintain the established Laws and customes of the respective Kingdomes and bring them to such a uniformity with all meanes sanctified for such a purpose can lead them to according to the word of God you say well if our Brethren of Scotland meane the like But will they be contented that an Act of our present Parliament prepared to cut off English Episcopacie shall doe the like good justice upon the Scotch Presbytery if they conceive it requisit Nay will they give us leave to examine refine purge and punish their Presbytery for such misdemeanours such trampling underfoot of Christian Liberty such enslaving the consciences of Gods people by humane Acts and Ordinances with divers others all which are thought fitting to be censured in Episcopacie To conclude then we finde it prophesied of our Saviour before his birth That he should neither strive ●or cry nor make a no●●● the streets he should not breake a bru●sed reed nor quench the smoaking flax Mat. 1. ●●9 20. The ditty which the quire of heavenly Host sang at his nativity was Glory be to God in the highest on earth peace good will towards men Luke 2. 13. 14. according whereunto his owne actions were full of peace even toward those that would not receive him as when they of Samaria refused to make ready for him Luke 9. 52. to 56. and the Garga●e●es who preferring their hogs before him desired him to depart their Country Mat. 8. ●4 with divers others His Commission to his Apostles was that they should have peace one with another Mark 9. 50. That they should proclaim peace unto whatsoever place or house they came Mat. 10. 14. Mark 6. 11. Luke 10 5. and at His departure He left his peace with them as a Legacie Joh. 14. 27. which they continually improved baptising and peaceably edifying all such as gladly received heard them Acts 2. 41. Rom. 14. 17. 18. and quietly departing from such as did refuse them and their Gospell Acts 13. 46. and 18. 6. 7. and 19. 9. But whosoever will reflect upon the Gospell and Government your Questions and Interrogatories point at they will quickly discover how point blanke quarrelling and fighting they are with that which our Saviour and his Apostles taught which causes me so much more seriously to apprehend and bewaile the want of those sober minded and peaceable disposed men you spoke of to whom how few soever I recommend you and your immedicable 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and satisfaction to your second thoughts untill I may perceive the foregoing 〈◊〉 unto your 〈◊〉 has been accepted or refuted Farewell FINIS

be taken from them rather then resist the Powers so they may quietly enjoy the Liberty of their Consciences the Scriptures the principles on which they ground themselves doe necessarily inforce them to it 6. Doubtlesse in all Nations from the first preaching of the Gospel till now Christians did multiply and particular Churches likewise which for the most part had dependencie on and communion one with another and were all subordinate to Nationall and Provinciall Synods and publique Ecclesiasticall constitutions but such Churches as were chiefly Papall or Episcopall and never Presbyteriall till within the memory of our Fathers and why we may not retreat backe againe into the errours of a hundred yeares as well as not passe forward unto a farther measure of light and knowledge I finde little satisfaction Phil. 3. 12 13 14. 7. The selfe same Law of Nature God and rectified reason which instructed and warranted all Nations to subject themselves unto some publique forme of Civill government obliging all persons and societies of men alike which they conceived most advantagious doth not warrant us to doe the like in Church affaires because whatsoever civill action the Civill Magistrate requires may be performed by the outward man or else be expiated by penalty without taint of conscience But the Church government as it aimes at and regards the Spirituall service and performance Joh. 4. 24. so the punishments must have a Spirituall effect Mat. 18. 18. and cannot be undergone or worke upon a mans spirit unlesse he will himself neither may he be willing thereunto unlesse he apprehend them to be according to Christs Government and Institution 8. From Exod. 23. 17. and 34. 23 24. with Exod. 34 23 24. and Deut. 16. 16. Levit. 17. 3. 4. 8 9 which speakes of the Nationall Church of the Jewes appearing at Ierusalem thrice a yeare you can no fitter apply it to prove a Nationall Church of Christians than make it possible for all the world if they were Christians which in such a sense must be Nationall to appeare thrice a year at Ierusalem or excuse them if they did not appear and if you grant a Catholicke Church throughout the world which may reach from one end thereof even to the other I wonder how it can be denyed that such as joyn in an Independent Church way may not as possibly be accounted and prove true members of the Catholicke but for the distinct Synagogues and Parochiall Assemblies as you call them of the Iews to which the people living together in a City were alotted and restrained I finde no ground in Scripture but strong evidence for a kinde of Independent Churches amongst the very Jewsd as you may gather from Deutt 12. 12. 18. c. 16. 11. 14. c. 26. 11. 12. Judg. 17. 18. Chapters by such of them as kept Levites to officiate in their families The Synodall Assembly you point at in the Acts 15. was no formall Synod neither would you as I conceive be contented to be bound by such an other to wit by a particular Church that is a Parish Church in your account if you hold any such in those dayes of another place whereof you your selfe are no member If you say an assembly of brethren at Jerusalem or any other particular place would now want inspired Apostles to make them Synodall or their Decrees of binding power I cannot help you till it please God to send us others neither doe I finde it in the power of man because they have not an Apostolicall spirit to supply the want thereof by numbers by multiplying or assembling so many more Presbyters or Presbyteries all men subject to the same passions with our selves Act. 14. 15. which is such a peece of simonie as we must be driven to grant that God Almighty hath hertofore infatuated such inventions or yeeld the Papists therein the upper hand But where doe we finde that those of Jerusalem sent binding decrees to the Churches of the Gentiles I see it not in Act. 15. 22. to 32. c. 16. 14. ● 21. 25. which you produced for that purpose since whatsoever their decrees were though they were infallibly assisted by the presence of the Holy Ghost v. 28. the penalty thereof was no more than If you doe observe these things you shall doe well v. 29. In Gods name then if you will needs have Synods and equalize them with the Apostles in making of decrees which I feare mee may amount unto presumption let them at least binde no otherwise than the Apostles than these of Jerusalem to wit Spiritually give them no sting or poison of Civill power which will subtilly undermine enervate and quite eat out the spirituall other than which you will and may well for this very cause acknowledge the Apostles neither had nor exercised But what are these binding decrees of that Synodall Assembly are they any other than a small portion or Historicall narration of the Acts of the Apostles did they then binde the Churches of the Gentiles or all Christians since any otherwise than other portions of Scripture doe And if you will have Synods and Parliaments to make the like binding decrees at present doe you not say by consequence and in effect that they may prescribe us another Gospel other Scriptures which though they were not differing but alike to what we have received are we not forbid to adde unto them upon perill of damnation Rev. 22. 18 19. But for the Churches of England Ireland Wales Scotland c. recorded by Historians and Canons I feare me if well examined they will rather be found Church walls than Church Assemblies living Temples of the Lord whereof Christ Jesus is the corner stone 1 Cor. 3. 16 17. Eph. 2. 20 21 22. such stocks and stones have the lazie covetous aspiring and which is worst of all persecuting lergie-men endeavoured to bring poore Christians to the laity as they call them that they might afterwards hew and hammer them into whatsoever else their owne lusts most desired 9. In my answer to your 3. and 4. Questions I hope to have given you if you consider of it some satisfaction that even in the Apostles times the Christians if they had been inspired thereto or so desired might have made themselves a Nationall Church what ever the Civill Magistrate had beene as well as Papists in England who alwayes were and still are subject to their Bishop in chiefe from whom they have appeale to Rome or the Jewes themselves which so long as they were a Church were still a Nationall Church though subjected to heathen Princes as touching Civill matters in captivity and strictest bondage For suppose England ought to be and were a Nationall Church of Calvinists or other kinde of Protestants if the Prince thinke good to alter his owne Religion or some party of the Subjects a fourth fift or so does the Kingdome cease to be a Nationall Church if it do not let the Kingdome enjoy their Nationall Church and particulars such as will their

and this the Independents will not grudge you much lesse abridge you of so long as you are contented to expect according to the Apostles long suffering Eph. 4. 2 3 4. 2 Tim. 4. 2. till they can be convinced to joyne with you therein What thinke you is the reason that the Kings and Parliaments Forces have been kept thus in a ballance destroying one another whilest it may have been observed for the most part that when either side was in best condition and height of glorying expecting a totall victory as I may say the next encounter proved their overthrow but that the design of most voices on both sides is to get power to persecute the other for cause of conscience We may be confident that if both sides had not only notoriously but even equally offended God in highest measure through a desire of power to persecute their brethren meerly for differing in opinion God would have put an end unto the common miseries in giving victory to one of them but alas let it be no offence to say his infinite Wisdome findes neither of them capable of such mercie whilest they are so mercilesse to one another is it not too too evident that both the Episcopall and Presbyteriall Clergie contrary to Pauls profession 2 Cor. 1. 24. aspire at rule and dominion over the faith of others Gods most conscientious and dearest servants are not their Assemblies full of these alarmes are not the Pulpit cushions worne out with tragicall actions suitable thereunto are not these the comfortable doctrines the disconsolate people are forced to feed upon in these miserable distractions whilest they kill one another in the field or so many grow mad at home and dye of penury and desperation and what thinke we made our brethren the Scotch so successeles here in England whilest the Warres are now beginning to kindle in their owne Country if it were not that they joyne with this Nation or rather provoke to establish their so much Idolized Presbyteriall Discipline of persecution when yet they themselves thought they had just cause to be highly offended with the same their owne persecuting spirit in Episcopacie When the Lord required the Israelites to appeare before him at Jerusalem thrice a yeare he promised that no man should invade their habitations in their absence Exod. 34. 23 24. which gracious providence of his no doubt continues still protecting all such as are imployed by his command but unlesse our brethren of Scotland bethinke themselves in time and consider that even as the persecuting Bishops of England attempting to impose their government in Scotland gave occasion to begin the Wars in England so if the persecuting Presbyters of Scotland continue to advance and get set up the Scotch government in England it may likely bring all three Kingdomes to make the seat of War in Scotland I would be loath to prophesie upon this occasion but doe much feare that in how bad condition soever both England and Ireland are at present if the Wars last but a little longer Scotland will yet be in farre worse God of his infinite mercy open the eyes of all three Kingdomes in this their heavy visitation reconciling Himselfe unto them all and them to one another for his deare Sonne Christ Jesus sake 11. The Independent Government will not so certainly let in heresies into their Churches as the setling of a coercive jurisdiction in or at the Clergies becke would keep truth out from a Nationall Church but if heresies doe multiply without in the world in a Nationall Church that is no more than was foretold and must follow of necessity Mat. 24. 24. 1 Cor. 11. 19. this concernes not the Independent Government which permits no Heretickes to be amongst them within their Churches they make use of instructing admonishing reproving and rebuking with such other Spirituall meanes and armour as are only proper and sanctified by God Almighty for preventing heresies and schismes whereas all other Discipline which uses imprisoning whipping stigmatizing and evill intreating even unto death a course fitter to be practised towards beasts than men may make the outward man turne hypocrite two fold worse the childe of the Divell Matth. 23. 15. but never prevaile upon the Spirit which such proceedings may easily exasperate and keep further off but will never win unto the truth Men doe not imbrace errours otherwise than as they account them truths and therefore 't is no marvell if they prove as pertinacious in defence of the one as they are constant in defending of the other in which respect what ever mens opinions be they must be dealt withall by the spirit of meeknesse and long suffering Gal 6. 1. 2 Tim. 4. 2. 5. Tit. 2. 15. 2 Thess. 3. 14. we know not Gods secret times and seasons for bringing men unto the truth 't is a dangerous thing to anticipate Gods judgements even on those which afterwards were to be condemned some are not called untill the 11 houre in Gods account and our Saviour taught us to aske forgivenesse no otherwise then we forgive our brethren and no hereticke how grosse soever has greater need of a mercifull Presbytery than that Presbytery has of the Father of mercies 'T is an easie matter to exclaime against Anabaptisticall Antinomian Hereticall Atheisticall opinions as of the soules mortality divorce pleasure c. but one dram of apposite Scripture and rectified reason would convince men of their errours far sooner then the clubs slaves which were and are still imployed against our Saviour and his Saints when they could not resist the Spirit and wisdome wherewith they spake Act 6. 10. I can easily beleeve that since this Parliament time of speaking and writing truth many errours have thereby been published but even you your selfe by this meanes have not acquired a farther knowledge of some truth which otherwise might still in likelyhood have been witheld I must either stand amazed at the transcendent perfection of your knowledge or conceive you have spent more time in writing then in reading 12. Independencie is not so like a Pharisaicall dangerous spirituall pride vain-glorious singularity or selfe-conceitednesse of a mans owne superlative holinesse as the Papall Episcopall Presbyteriall or other such like Spirit which is not contented to enjoy God and himselfe in peace of conscience but what ever giddy whimsie or phanaticke projects invade captivate his understanding is restlesse and Haman like Est. 3. 5. 6. pines away untill he have brought his neighbour the Towne Country and all the World to bow to him perforce to be of his opinion You your selfe in what you stood out against the Bishops or the State were Independent and like enough would then in modesty have beene contented barely to have enjoyed your independencie for what you found your selfe not able to submit unto in conscience and now that you thinke you have gained an opportunity doe you take it to be justice or good doctrine to foment and be a ring-leader unto others towards