Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

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england_n	duke_n	earl_n	james_n	4,204	5	8.3949	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91287	The subjection of all traytors, rebels, as well peers, as commons in Ireland, to the laws, statutes, and trials by juries of good and lawfull men of England, in the Kings Bench at Westminster, for treasons perpetuated by them in Ireland, or any foreign country out of the realm of England. Being an argument at law made in the Court of Kings Bench, Hil. 20 Caroli Regis, in the case of Connor Magwire, an Irish baron ... fully proving; that Irish peers, as well as commons may be lawfully tried in this court in England, by the statute of 35 H.8.c.2. for treasons committed by them in Ireland, by a Middlesex jury, and outed of a trial by Irish peers: which was accordingly adjudged, and he thereupon tried, condemned, executed as a traytor ... By William Prynne Esq; a bencher of Lincolnes Inne.	Prynne, William, 1600-1669.	1658 (1658)	Wing P4090; Thomason E945_5; ESTC R203350	65,819	94

meaning And so much in answer to this grand objection wherein I have been over tedious but shall recompence it with brevity in the remainder The second Objection a meer branch of the former is this That if Irish Peers should be tryable by an ordinary Jury within this Law for Treasons done in Ireland this might prejudice the whole Nobility of Ireland who by colour of this Act might be sent for out of Ireland and tryed here for Treasons Misprisions and concealments of Treasons there committed and so quite deprived of their birth-right of tryal by their Peers which would be of dangerous consequence I answer 1. That I have manifested that this tryal by Peers was never deemed claimed nor enjoyed in Ireland as a privilege by Irish Peers nor ever used or practised in that land before this Act but once claimed since and that in Ireland Therefore it cannot be intended that this Statute or the makers of it ever imagined to save this manner of Tryal by Peers only to Irish Peers which they never enjoyed nor so much as once claimed or possessed before the making of it Neither can it be any injury or injustice to deprive them of that now they never heretofore claimed used enjoyed as their privilege and birth-right being not indubitably setled on them by any Law that I have seen but only in some special Cases of Treason since 35 H. 8. wherof this is none by the late Acts of 2 El. z. c. 1. 6. when as this privilege is taken from them not by a bare strained exposition or implication but by this express Act of Parliament made long since for the Common good and safety of England and Ireland not yet repealed 2ly This Objection with as great or greater strength colour might be made for all the Commons of Ireland far more numerous and considerable than their Peers they being deprived by it of tryals by Irish Juries in their native Country than for Irish Peers alone which Tryal here against Irish Commons was never of late excepted against this Law having been so often adjudged to reach to them Therefore there is no colour to exempt Irish Peers out of it 3ly This pretended prejudice to Irish Peers in point of Tryal by their Peers is soly in cases of High Treasons or Misprision and concealments of it and no other the Statute extending to no crimes but these alone Therefore the mischief is not great in general and no Irish Peers I presume but such who have trayterous or disloyal hearts will deem it a disparagement or injustice to them to be secluded of a Tryal by their Peers only in these Cases of High Treason And if others who are professed Rebels and Traytors murmur at it as none else will we need not much regard it nor prefer their pretended privilege before our own Kings Kingdomes Religions yea Irelands safety and wellfare in bringing them to a speedy tryal and condign punishments for their Treasons here in England by vertue of this Law 3ly Even by the very Common law before this Act Treasons committed in Ireland by Peers or Commons were tryable before the Marshall of England in England it self as is evident by the Parliament Roll of 2 H. 6. ● 9. * Where Iohn Lord Talbot being the Kings Lieutenant in Ireland accused James Bottiler Earl of Ormond of certain Treasons there particularly recited by him committed in Ireland before John Duke of Bedford Constable of England in his Marshals Court Which accusations the King by the advice of his Parliament did discharge and abolish to appease the differences between them Upon which else he might have been proceeded against though an Irish Peer without any tryal by his Peers See Cooks 4 Instit p. 123 124. Therefore a fortiori this special Act of Parliament may subject Irish Peers to a tryal by a substantial English Jury in England for Treasons done in Ireland since tryable for them here before its making even in the Marshals Court 5ly This Statute doth not simply take away the tryal of all Treasons committed in Ireland from thence only it makes them all tryable here when the King State and Parliament shall see just cause or occasion for tryal of them here as now they do in these times of general rebellion there when the Rebels are so predominant and the times such that no safe fair or indifferent tryal of this Traytor can be there had or expected And seeing the Law and common reason will inform every man that the King and State will never be at the cost and trouble to send for Traytors and Witnesses out of Ireland to try them here but upon a most just occasion and urgent necessity to prevent either a faiter or delay of Justice in case of horrid Treasons and Rebellions And no Irish Peer who hath any loyalty in his heart or reason in his head will deem it a dishonor or prejudice to the whole Irish Peerage in general or the trayterous Peers sent hither to be tryed in particular to be outed of a tryal by Irish Peers in such Cases of necessity and expediency only it being better and safer for this Realm and Ireland too that these native Irish Peers who have been proved to break out into actual Rebellion in all ages as this Prisoners Ancestors have done as much or more than any his * Grandfather being the first man that broke forth in Tyrones Rebellion should be subject to tryals for the same by ordinary English Juries here and outed of their Peerage then that such Arch-Traytors and Rebels as the Prisoner and his Confederates are guilty of the effusion of many thousands of Protestants and English mens bloods should escape uncondemned or be executed by Martial law And our Law in this Case which concerns the safety of 2 Kingdoms at once will rather suffer a particular mischief especially to rebellious Peers than a general inconvenience to both Realms and all loyal Subjects in both 6ly Though the tryal of all English and Irish Peers by a legal indictment presentment and Jury of their Peers alone and not by Martial-law or Commissioners themselves alone be an essential fundamental Right and Privilege for the securitie of their lives and estates which our Parliaments in all ages have been very curious to preserve and not to alter yet the Tryal of Peers by Peers alone not by a Jury of other Freemen for the most part if rightly considered is rather a meer punctilio of honor than matter of real privilege or benefit to Peers and by intendment of Law and common experienc a fair and legal tryal by the oaths of 12 honest substantial indifferent English Gentlemen or Freeholders to whom the Prisoner may take all * sorts of lawfull challenges by Law which shall be allowed if there be any just cause of suspition of partiality injustice consanguinity c. besides his peremptory challenge of 35 Jurors without cause which challenges * Cook affirms shall not

Pat. 12. E. 1. m. 11. Pro diversis in Hibernia quod uti possint Legibus Angliae in Hibernia Rex omnibus ballivis fidelibus suis Hiberniae ad quos c. salutem Vol●ntes Giraldo fil Johannis Hibernico gratiam facere specialem concedimus pro nobis Haeredibus no●tris quod idem Geraldus liberi sui quos legitime procreaverit hanc habeant libertatem quod ipsi de caete●o in Hibernia utantur legibus Anglicanis firmiter inhibemus ne quis ●os contra hanc concessionem nostram vexet in aliquo vel perturbet In cujus c. T. Rege apud Carnarvan 30 die Maij Consimiles literae habet Margeria de Lessan Henricus de Lessan Petrus de Lessan Andreas de Lessan Bene dictus fil Johannis Ardmagh Willielmus Heuke Hibernici In cujus c. Teste ut supra Pat. 18. E. 1. m. 24. Rex omnibus Ballivis fidelibus suis in Hibernia ad quos c. salutem Volentes Isamaiae filiae Oragilig Matildae fil Oragilig Hibernicis graciam facere specialem concedimus pro nobis haereaibus nostris quod eadem Isamaia Matilda ad totam vitam suam hanc habeant libertatem videlicit quod ipsae de caetero in Hibernia utantur legibus Anglicanis fi●miter inhibemus ne quis eas contra ●anc concessionem nostram vexet in aliquo vel perturbet In cujus c. T. Rege apud Westm. 12 die Junii per ipsum Regem Pat. 19. E. 1. m. 20. Rex omnibus ad quos c. salutem Sciatis quod de gratia nostra speciali concessimus Willielmo filio Carmok Clerico quod ipse omnes posteri sui imperpetuum Lege consuetudine Anglicana utantur in terra nostra Hiberniae i●a quod ipsi per alias leges consuetudines p●r nos ministros nostros quoscunque de caetero non deducantur contra voluntatem suam sed quod ipsi in vita sua morte de caetero libertate gaudeant Anglicana In cujus c. Teste Rege apud Ashermg 22 die Jan. The like Patent is granted Mauricio de Bre. Hibernico Pat. 24. E. 1. m. 3. These Records with Claus. 2. E. 3. m. 17. Rex dilecto fideli suo Johanni Darcy de Nevien Justiciario suo Hiberniae salutem Exparte quorundam hominnm de Hibernia extitit supplicatum Ut per statutum inde faciendum concedere velimus quod omnes Hibernici qui voluerint legibus utantur Anglicanis it a quod necesse non habeant super has chartas aliquas a nobis impetrare Nos igitur certior ari volentes si sine alieno prae●●d●cio praemissis annuer ●valeamus vobis mandamus quod voluntatem magnatum terrae illius in proximo Parliamento ibidem tenendo super hoc cum ailigentia pers●rutari faciatis de eo quod inveneritis una cum vestro consilio ad visam●nto nos distincte aperte cum celeritate qua potestis certificetis hoc breve nostrum nobis remittentes which compared with Claus. 5. E. 3. part 1. m. 25. Pro hominibust●rrae Hiberniae de Lege ANGLIAE UTENDA in custodiis recuper andis c. are an unanswerable evidence beyond contradiction That the great Charter Liberties Customs and Laws of England granted to those of Ireland by King John Henry the third Edward the first and third extended only to the English Subjects inhabiting Ireland and to such Irish who lived in English Counties in due subjection to the Kings of England or were by special Charters of indenization enabled to enjoy the benefit of them who were but few in consideration of the rest of the Irish Nobility Gentry and Commons retaining their ancient Brehon Laws and would not submit to the Laws of England nor Government of our Kings against whom they frequently rebelled being reputed rather Enemies than Rebels and usually so stiled in the Statutes of Ireland till the Statute of 33 H. 8. c. 9. as appears by the Statutes of 18 H. 6. c. 3. 25 H. 6. c. 4 5. 28 H. 6. c. 1. 3 E. 4. c. 2. 5 E. 4. c. 6. 18 E. 4. c. 2. 10 H. 7. c. 9 10 17 19. 28 H. 8. c. 11. by Sir John Davis Irish Reports in the Case of Tanistry fol. 39. the common Laws and Statutes of England being not universally received or established throughout the whole Realm of Ireland till after the Statutes of 3 and 4 Phil. and Mar. c. 3. 11 Eliz. c. 9. and King James his Proclamation in the third yeer of his reign or at leastwise till the Statutes of 8 E. 4. c. 1. or 10 H. 7. c. 22. which established all the Statutes made in England concerning or belonging to the good of the same only as to the Englishry or English Pale and Counties not to the Irishery as the Statutes of 17 H. 7. c. 8 9 10 11 13 17 19. 35 H. 6. c. 3. 5 Ed. 4. c. 3 4 5. 13 H. 8. c. 3. 28 H. 8. c. 15. made in Ireland with other Acts resolve which the Lord Magwire confesseth in his Plea and his Council cannot deny Now the Lord Magwire being none of the English Pale or Irish Sept Liege Subjects to our Kings but of the Irishry and professed Enemies to our Kings as the Irish Annals and Statutes inform us the Statute of Magna Charta and the Laws Liberties and Customs of England granted to the English and loyal Irish Subjects in Ireland and so this trial by Peers could not extend to his ancestors till after the Statutes of 8 E. 4. or 10 H. 7. of 35 H. 8. c. 1. yea after the Statutes of 3 and 4 Ph. and Ma. c. 3. and 11 Eliz. c. 9. for reducing the Irishry into Counties and under the Laws and Statutes of England to which they were not formerly subject And from these Patents of King John and Henry the third forecited and the Statutes of 8 E 4. and 10 H. 7. till 35 H. 8. chap. 1. No one president of any one Irish Peers trial by his Peers in Ireland in any case whatsoever can be produced Therefore certainly there was no such trial known or in use in Ireland before 35 H. 8. nor any president of it since till one of late and una Hirundo non facit Ver. If then the Peers of Ireland before the making of this Act of 35 H. 8. were never actually tried by their Peers for any treason done in Ireland for ought can be proved and there be no express Act for any trial by Peers there for any Treason but only the Act of 2 Eliz. c. 1. and 6. and that only for special Treasons within those Laws which are none of those for which the Prisoner stands here indicted I may safely conclude That this Law of 35 H. 8. never intended to preserve to Irish Peers a trial by their Peers in Ireland which kinde of trial was never