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A56668 A further continuation and defence, or, A third part of the friendly debate by the same author.; Friendly debate between a conformist and a non-conformist Part 3. Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707. 1670 (1670) Wing P805; ESTC R2050 207,217 458

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of your own party to the very skie to magnifie their gifts their zeal their sincerity their self-denial their tenderness of Conscience their pains taking together with their sufferings though never so small And on the other side to disparage ours or at the best to speak very coldly of them though never so pious and learned nay to shake your heads sometimes and lament their Ignorance in the mystery of Christ the meanness of their spiritual gifts the formality of their pravers their unedifying preaching and as it is to be feared their straining Conscience to comply with the times N. C. Pray let 's have no more of this C. Why may I not tell you a few other Devices that have been in use to win and keep your Proselytes As to brag of your numbers to spread stories and lyes by your Agents and correspondents from one end of the land to the other to fill every Country with the very same tales to possess the people against the writings of those of our way to give glorious titles to your own Books to cry up your sufferings as if they were for the cause of Christ to call all things you do not like I dolatry Antichristianisme Popery and such like odions and frightful names nay such hath been the tenderness of some of your hearts as to threaten your poor neighbours they shall have no work at least to deny to imploy them unless they will come to your meetings N. C. Now you calumniate to purpose C. It was a thing notorious in the late times as Mr. Edwards assures us and I have cause to think this evil humour is not spent but rather encreased But be that as it will you have a number of far more efficacious Arts then this As to vaunt of the power of your preaching of the glorious appearance of God among you and of the multitude of Converts to you to bespatter all that oppose you to perswade the people it was good livings that made so many turn Conformists and that they have lost their gifts and are much decreased in their graces at least you have thought good to terrifie them and bid them take heed for they have lost the prayers of thousands But if any adventure to write against you wo be to them Whatsoever they were before immediately they become the enemies of God and all goodness The people are told that they strike at the power of godliness through your sides and that they reproach Religion when they reprove your Superstition Every reprehension is called railing and hatred to the people of God and whatsoever fault they find it is done on purpose you say to bring all godliness into contempt In short to suppress you is to suppress the Spirit and but to speak against your affected language is to be desperately profane for who ever saw the beauty of Sion and the glory of the Lord filling the Tabernacle but in your Congregations Let any man go about to contradict this it is but pouring out half a dozen Scriptures against him nothing to the purpose and he is confuted nay one word will do the work and he shall be thought to write rarely and to come off like an Angel who can but say The Lord rebuke thee N. C. You had as good hold your peace for I beleive nothing that you say C. I can prove in every particular by true and faithful histories that this hath been the humour of your Sect. N. C. Save your self the labour I have no time nor list to hear you C. Nor to read good Books but only to babble as your Answerer doth out of your own head Did you never see a little Book called A wise and moderate Discourse concerning Church Affairs N. C. No. C. It was Printed in the beginning of our Warrs 1641. And I find it since put among my Lord Bacons Works there you may find several of these things noted First saith he * Speaking of the Oppugaers of the present Ecclesiastical Government they have appropriated to themselves the name of zealous and sincere and reformers as if all others were cold minglers of holy things profane men and friends to abuses Nay if a man be indued with great vertues and fruitful in good works yet if he coneurre not fully with them he is called in derogation a civil and moral man and compared to Socrates or some Heathen Philosopher Just contrary to St. John who would have called such a man Religious and told such as many of them that h● vainly boasts of loving God whom he hath not seen who loves not his neighbour whom he hath seen St. James also saith that this is true Religion to visit the Father less and the Widdow So as that which is but Philosophical and moral with them is in the phrase of the Apostle true Religion and Christianity And as in affections they challenge the said virtue of zeal and the rest so in knowledge they attribute 〈◊〉 themselves light and perfection The Church of England in King Edwards daies wa● but in the swadling cloaths or in the Cradle in Queen Elizabeths time but in it infancy and childhood The Bishops h● somewhat of the Day break but the M●turity and fulness of light is reserved fo● themselves And as they consure virtu●● men by the names of Civil and Moral 〈◊〉 those who are truly and godly wise a● discern the vanity of their Assertions they term Politicians and say their Wisedome is but carnal and savouring of mans Brain And in like manner if a preacher speak with care and meditation ordering his matter distinctly and inforcing it with strong proofs and warrants they censure it as a form of preaching not becomming the simplicity of the Gospel and refer it to the reprehension of St. Paul speaking of the enticing words of mans wisdome You may read there a great deal more to the same purpose if you have a mind to see your own picture But nothing methinks is more memorable then the blind rage and fury which the discovery of a most impious cheat excited in some of your predecessors hearts There was a young Preacher pretended to a power of Casting out Devils which he began to assume in the year 1586. and more openly professed 1597. This made a great noise of glory lights lamps and shining beams which now appeared in the work a Discovery of the fraudulent practices of John Darrel c. A● 1599. p. 19. It was given out to be a marvel●us work a mighty work of the Lord Jesas which all that loved him in sincerity must be careful to publish a matter of as great consequence and as profitable to all that sincerely professed the Gospel as ever any was since the restoring it amongst us b Ib. p. 16. And though first her Majesties Judges and then her commissioners in causes Ecclesiastical found by the free confession of the party said to be dispossessed that it was a meer cheat and a wicked combination to abuse the