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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	church_n	minister_n	ordain_v	2,580	5	8.7933	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A80158	Responsoria ad erratica pastoris, sive, vindiciæ vindiciarum. Id est, the Shepherds wandrings discovered, in a revindication of the great ordinance of god: Gospel-preachers, and preaching. By way of reply and answer to a late booke, called, The peoples priviledges, and duty guarded against the pulpit and preachers encroachment. And their sober justification and defence of their free and open exposition of scriptures. Published by William Sheppard, Esq. Wherein Mr Sheppards pretended guard, consisting of ten propositions and ten arguments, is examined, and found to wear nothing by wooden swords. And all his replyes to Mr Tho. Halls arguments, and Mr Collinges arguments in his Vindiciæ ministerii, brought against not ordained persons ordinary preaching, are found but cavils and too light. And the truth still maintained, ... in that, preaching and expounding scripture publiquely, are proper acts to gospel officers; not common to all. Wherein also the great question, how far the spirit of God ... dothïnable them to understand scripture is opened, ... / By John Collings, M.A. and preacher of the Gospel in Norwich.	Collinges, John, 1623-1690.	1652 (1652)	Wing C5331; Thomason E672_1; ESTC R207127	122,201	185

necessary but those duties are private exhortings not publike expoundings for those are neither common nor necessary to be performed by persons not in office and the command is generall but not to all duties 11. The command to preach is no more common then that to Baptize Math. 28.19 But your selfe will grant they may not Baptize unty the knot for your self and you doe it for us 12. What though the same words be used to expresse the duty of the peoples private exhortations one of another and the Pastors publike exhortations yet this will not prove that their exhortations are to be in the same manner nor that the duty is the same The Magistrate in his charge at an assize may be said to exhort yet surely it is not every private persons duty so to exhort the people 13. If the use of the same word for both be any argument then they are not only bound to exhort and preach but to doe it as Apostles and prophets and pastors the places you quote will prove this yet you your selfe say p. 24. that they cannot doe it as preachers in office in an ●uthoritative way or as a pastorall act 14. The same word signifies to Baptize and to wash our hands or pots and cups and by your Logick it will follow that every man that may wash his hands or every kitchin wench that is by her office to wash a cup may Baptize a Christian why the word is the same But to proceed yet with you p. 30. you say We grant that in case of planting or decay or corruption of a Church and where a church is not regularly constituted that in these and such like cases a gifted man may ordinarily and publikely preach without a solemne call If so we desire them to consider how neere our case at this time at least in some congregations comes to this if our Churches be rightly constituted you say why is there so much labour to alter and reforme the constitution of them 1. Let us see how far this is granted 2. What you can conclude from our grant 3. how you apply it and cavill from it 1. I never granted you that in case of the planting or decay of a Church and where a Church is not regularly constituted that in these cases a gifted man might preach without a call c. except the case were so that none could be found to ordain nor none ordained found to do the Lords worke Nor doe I thinke it Regular I doe not thinke it the best way to convert Indians to send unguifted men to them not ordained But for the Church to set some apart by fasting and prayer and send them out to them with authority See M. Firmin● separation examined p. 60. I am sure this is Gods way when he was to send preachers where Churches were not formed Acts 13.5 indeed if the case be such that no ordained persons can be found nor any Presbyters to ordaine them the case is otherwise My Brother Hall in his pulpit-guarded p. 5. 6. durst grant you no more now what doe you argue from hence Those that may preach to Heathens or to Christians where no officers can be had to preach or set apart preachers these also may ordinarily preach where there are preachers in office and more may be made A miserable consequence Sir apply it to Magistracy and you will see the absurdity of it But you tell us this is our case or very neere We are beholden to you for this Sir are we no better then Heathens thinke you 2. Have we no officers ordained in England nor 3. Any meanes of Ordination But our Churches are not rightly constituted 1. The Church of England Sir is rightly constituted here are in it preachers rightly ordained and people rightly qualified and the ordinances rightly administred 2. For the particular Churches in England possibly they may not be organized regularly but constituted they are though corrupted and so have much need to be reformed 3. You have foisted in this terme Rightly into our grant we doe not thinke that every particular fault in the constitution of a Church makes the Lords Vineyard such a common that every one may come and dig in it But fourthly you tell us we grant you That gifted men may preach as Probationers and by writing in what manner and method they please without any call at all and that a judge may give a charge and a Colonell or Captain exhort his Souldiers That a man may comfort his afflicted friend 1. The three latter we grant you in terminis as you propound them 2. We also grant that men may exercise their gifts as probationers but not in what manner and method they please for their method we deny them not what they please but for the manner it must not be ordinarily but once or twice or more in order to Timothies laying on of hands upon them which must not be suddenly 3. These Probationers must not be Naylors Taylors Coblers c. but such as have beene approved as have studied the Scriptures and give themselves wholly to that worke 4. We say others may write but we doe not call writing preaching But what followes upon this grant Will you conclude that therefore those that never intend the office of the Ministry nor to give themselves wholly to that worke may make it a Trade to preach every Lords day in a constituted Church is there no odds thinke you Sir betwixt our grant and your taken conclusion we have given you an inch you have taken an ell But lastly you tell us that we doe constantly admit preachers to preach for us that are strangers to us and of whose call we can have no assurance I answer 1. It is no argument to argue a facto ad jus that because some doe it it is lawfull 2. But surely none do it if they know them to be such as are not called if we be deceived by report or common fame or their own words the sin is not ours so much 3. I know none that doe it if there be any let them plead for themselves If such thrust into our places we give them no leave And thus Sir I have shewn you the weaknesse and insufficiency of your first argument which proves too short for your purpose I come now to your second CHAP. XIII Wherein Mr. Sheppards foure next main Arguments are weighed in the ballance of the Sanctuary and found too light I Am come now to the second argument which you call a maine one That it is no where forbidden in the word of God and then it cannot be unlawfull Your Logick is this What is not forbidden to be done is not unlawfull But the ordinary preaching of gifted uncalled men in a constituted Church is not forbidden Ergo. Arg. 2 As you deliver your mind we must be forced first to distinguish then to answer 1. A thing is forbidden either generally or specially either directly or by consequence If you

a truth that the Hebrewes doe sometimes confound tenses and we often translate their future tense by the preterperfect yet with submission to those more learned and criticall in that language I conceive it should not be so translated except the sense inforceth it the primary and proper signification being otherwise 3. Neither doe I see such a necessity for the coherence sake so to translate it there V. Our Annot. for might not the Prophet as well set out their impiety by their declination from their duty as well as from the piety of the Priests formerly 4. Nay under favour Sir the coherence is both against you and Piscator too the very next words are for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts now let any judicious man judge whether the sense be better as you would have it thus For the Priests lips did keep knowledge and they did seeke the Law at his mouth for he is the Angell of the Lord of hosts or as we read it For the Priests lips should preserve knowledge and they should seeke the Law at his mouth For he is the Angell of the Lord of hosts or the messenger of the Lord of hosts for the same word signifies both this is the reason given why the people should enquire the interpretation of the Law at his mouth because he is the Messenger he is one authorized and sent and appointed by God to open the Law 5. But Fifthly suppose we admit your reading it alters not the case at all for you grant that the Priests lips did keep knowledge and the people did require the Law at his mouth and this in the purer state of the Jewish Church and this was a piece of their sinne that they were deviated from this practise this is as much as we desire surely the Jewish Church order was not altered but by their corruption in Malachies time if we take your sense it amounts to this In the old time The Priests lips did preserve knowledge and they did require the law at his mouth who was the messenger of the Lord of hosts But now the Priests are ignorant and the people profane they care for no Priests but thinke themselves best able to interpret the Law of the Lord for they were deviated as well as the Priests v. 11.12 13 14 15 16. Have not you warded this Text well think you Sir It is as if we should say of England In the Prelates times the Ministers of the Lord Jesus preached plainely and powerfully and constantly they preached Law and Gospell reproofes and exhortations and the people heard the word of God diligently and reverently and were content to teach their families and to repeat Sermons and then the power of godlinesse encreased and Christians kept in the Vnity of the spirit and the bond of peace and walkt humbly with God and hated Arminian and Socinian and familisticall Errors and Blasphemies and were kept under an aw of Ordinances But now many Ministers are come to preach notions and allegories and whimzies to read Sermons instead of preaching to lay aside preaching duty and reproofe and to preach nothing but priviledges and mysteries and nonsensicall notions and to preach once a fortnight And the people they are come to neglect and despise Ordinances to thinke themselves as much preachers as the Ministers and to know as much as they can tell them and hence they are puft up with pride and are taken in the snare of the Devill and are continually rending and dividing one from another and running into error and blasphemies and the whole Nation of professors almost is turn'd Arminian Socinian or Familisticall You have put the interpretation Sir upon the Prophets words I have to strengthen our argument helpt you with a parallell Quam bene conveniunt To your second answer in which you point us to Deodate for a note but you have abused him for he hath never a note upon the words you quote I grant you the words onely held to us Analogically but where is the Analogy if not here as the Priests were the onely ordinary persons that had the knowledge of the Law betrusted to them to communicate it to others and the people were not to go to seeke it at an ordinary Jewes mouth but at the publike officers mouth so the Ministers of the Gospell are the only ordinary persons under the Gospell that have the Gospell committed to them to teach others out of it and Gospell Christians are not to require the opening of those Mysteries at one anothers mouthes but at theirs But you tell us thirdly the Case is otherwise under the Law and Gospell I grant you all you say there onely I do not finde that Is 61.8 the people of God are called Priests nor doe I believe that all people generally come under those promises you mention onely Saints and I turne your argument upon your selfe thus If under the Gospell people be generally more full of knowledge then under the Law then they had need have more eminent able teachers that should give them strong meat And these Sir had need be such as are able to search the deeps of Scripture to dive into the hidden mysteries Besides as knowledge encreaseth so in some wantonnesse will encrease and the Gospell preachers had need be such as shall be able to oppose those that gainesay their doctrine in opposing those that contradict a truth Those that maintaine a dispute either for a truth or for an errour had need have some more abilities then unlearned gifted brethren A late experience of this I could tell you in the gathered company at Bury where were many thought themselves able enough to Preach but being challenged by the Reverend pastor of the Presbyterian Church to dispute a point which they might have beene well versed in for I believe the persons have been studying it and practising it these seven years whether the Ministers of England be true Ministers they were glad to send for some of their Norfolk Brethren for helpe and some of the gifted brethren went and when they returned being miserably bafled by their owne confession they said they wanted a Scholler yet I suppose they thought they had the spirit of God but God will convince men learning is his Ordinance to enable men both to expound Scripture and defend his truth In the last place you come to the Commission Math. 28.19 Mar. 16.15 From which both my Brother Hall and my selfe urged you to say 1. That the word may be read go make disciples Jo. 4.1 2. There is no negative Clause in it 3. In common reason it doth not exclude others and to the last purpose you serve us with our usuall fare Similitudes instead of proofes it is for want of better Arguments sure Sir 4. You tell us the people have a commission to teach 5. That the native sense of the place seems only an enlargement of the former commission Mat. 10.1 2. Lu 10.1 2. 6. That the force of

out a passage in Erasmus his Adages out of the late Editions which I finde in Froben Edition fol. the passage will let you know his mind Aut se divinas literas interpretari conetur Graecae Latinae Hebraicae linguae denique omnis antiquitatis rudis imperitus fine quibus non stultum modo verum impium est Theologiae mysteria tractanda suscipere Quod tamen heu nefas jam passim plerique faciunt qui frigidis aliquot instructi syllogismis puerilibus sophismatis deum immortalem quid non auderit quid non praecipiunt quid non decernunt Qui si possent cernere quos risus vel potius quem dolorem moveant linguarum antiquitatis peritis quae porienta proferant in quam pudendos errores subinde prolabantur nimirum puderet illos tantae temeritatis vel senes ad primae literarum elementa redirent Nullus unquam sententiam alicujus intellexit ignarus Sermonis quo sententiam suam explicavit proinde Divus Hieronymus cum constituisset arcanas interpretari literas ne illotis ut aiunt pedibus rem tantum aggrederetur quaeso num sophisticis nugis instruxit ingenium Erasmi Adagia edit Bafileae 1526. p. 298. Cent. 9. Chiliadas 1. Adagio 55. tit Illotis manibus Num Aristotelicis decretis Num his etiam Nugationibus nugis minime Quid igitur in aestimabili sudore trium linguarum peritiam sibi comparavit Quas qui ignorat non Theologus est sed sacrae theologiae violator ac vere manibus paeriter ac pedibus illotis rem omnium maxime sacram non tractat sed prophanaet conspurcat violat I shall not English it supposing you understand Latine I could furnish you with many more of his minde But I say I cannot say that a knowledge in the Tongues is absolutely necessary to me to interpret any Scriptures but thus much we say 1. He that hath not skill in the Tongues must take the credit of expositors and translators and if they quarrell he will scarce know which side to take 2. He will never know the full Emphasis of Scripture many sweet notions of truth lie in the various significations of the originall words which Translators could not hint us being to give the word only one translation v. Hyperium de studio theol c. 9. 3. There are many mistakes in translations and expositors 4. There are many proper idiomes of Languages which translators cannot expresse But for an absolute necessity in all cases I doe not hold it Though I could heartily wish that all preachers might be able to understand the Originall Languages and I thinke something this way is hinted us by Gods furnishing the first preachers of the Gospell with the gift of Tongues And as light as you make Sir of humane learning if you come to argue a Scripture against an opposer that is learned he will make you believe you had need of the Tongues and of Logick too and that preacher is worth little that durst not appeare or is not able to defend his own doctrine nor doe I think such for constant ordinary preachers are Gods Ordinance indeed cases of necessity have no Law Better have one onely to read Scriptures then none either to read or preach and so better have preachers that can but preach other mens Sermons and Expositions then no preachers at all This I answer generally now to your Cavills To your first I answer 1. We onely say it may be in cases of necessity when such as are more fit cannot be had then let such be ordained as have not such skill in School-learning But let even these labour for it and the more they preach the more they will see the need of it 2. To your second I onely answer Pudet haec opprobria dici Et dici potuisse et non potuisse refelli It is a shame to England that it hath so many such preachers those that ordaine now ordaine onely such as have a knowledge or solemnly engage to study the Tongues get a statute to enjoyne all Ministers to be skilled in the Languages after some certaine time for it is fitting the present necessity should be supplied we will thanke you for it To your Third cavill I answer two things 1. I know not one Scripture can be understood without understanding the Language it was wrote in but he that expounds it must take the credit of the Translator and we know Translations are not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 suppose it be the plainest Scripture how shall he know whether the words be rightly Translated Non omne quod verum est Scribentis mentis consonat Tolet. in Johan 1. and so consequently the minde of God by comparing it with the Analogy of Faith thus indeed the thing may be knowne to be true but not a Truth in that Text shall he know it by the coherence and how shall he understand that without a skill in the Languages except he takes it upon trust suppose there be no coherence as in the Proverbs 2. Surely a preacher should be able to open the whole counsell of God not this or that single Text. To your fourth cavill viz. If humane learning be such an helpe to the knowledge of Scriptures what is the reason that some yea many great Schollers look into Scripture and see little of Gods mind in it and how comes it to passe that many who are without humane learning have so large a knowledge and understanding hereof I answer for great Schollers knowing so little of the minde of God in Scripture you mistake non causam pro causa 1. Their learning and knowing of the Tongues in which they are written is not the cause but there may be many reasons 1. Their lazinesse or negligence Ex eruditis igitur labi contingit alium quadam oscitantia supinitate c. V. Hyperium de rat studii theol c. 9. l. 4. Alius errat ob verborum aliu● ob rerum imperitiam Aliqui in errorem incidunt quadam animi perturbatione aut vitioso affectu impulsi Quidam errorem amplectuntur magis authoritate reverentia aliorum quam judicio veritatis inquisitione promoti c. V. pluta Hyperius de ratione studii theol l. 4. c. 9. Fiunt subtilia ingenia postquam à verbo se patiuntur abduci minu●●tur suo sensu Lutherus c. 4. tit 767. not making it their businesse to improve their learning and knowledge this way 2. Their crotchicall fancies bringing to their interpretations not discendi pietatem a pious heart to learne but only discutiendi acumen a criticall humour 3. Their unsanctified undertaking their worke without prayer and seeking of God by prayer that his spirit may guide them in the use of their learning ut nec decipiant nec decipiantu● that they may neither deceive themselves nor deceive others For the second part of your cavill I answer 1. I know very few men that want humane learning

as if Saints under the Gospell had generally such a spirit of prophecy as Jeremy and Amos Why doe you put rules and restrictions upon them then Sir in your 78 79 80. p. 25. and Peter and John had but indeed it seems they cannot forbear for the Law of God cannot restraine them their pretended spirit is like new wine indeed that hath intoxicated them And like fire for it hath broke forth to the burning up of a great part of the Lorde heritage But Sir you are mistaken in saying that we doe not perswade them to refresh themselves with their new Wine we onely wish them to forbeare Ivy bushes except their Wine were better and to keep their bottles for their own use and not to make their guifts means of others drunkennesse We doe perswade them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to blow up their fire onely we advise them to keep it within the chimney But y●u think it would be an excellent means to make the sparkles flame if we that are Preachers w●uld but presse upon them the improvement of their guifts I suppose you mean publiquely or else you both charge us falsly and say nothing to the purpose too But Sir we must finde God commanding us to doe it before we durst take your counsell But yet your experiment hath been tried and is God knows too much There is a liberty enough given to men this way and the people are ready enough to take it Nor are there some wanting that have bidden them God speed The Socinians and Arminians of old after them the Brownists and lately some of our more valuable reverend dissenting Brethren and I believe any time these ten yeeres in severall places this liberty hath been pleaded But where 's the flame Sir or what is the fruit of it is not T. Colliers spark blown into a flame see his blasphemous discourse at Axbridge It is indeed miserably true that their sparks are blown into flames but they are such flames as have consumed the Church of God and endanger the Elect the blowing up of these sparks hitherto in all places in the world where they have been endured hath proved a sad flame Enquire of the Churches in New England did not Mrs. Hutchinson and the rest of her followers sparks come into flames Aske the Churches in Holland what pretty flames these sparks made did not the Yorkshire Sadlers sparks make a flame too in Mr. Oxenbridges Church if I have not been mis-informed I believe our judicious brethren will soon see if this practice goe on that they will be troubled with such flames that they will hardly be able to quench We have seen these sparks by blowing grow into flam s of Anabaptisme Vbi Africa eversa fuit per Manichaeos mox secuti sunt eos Donatistae qui ipsi inter se dissentientes divisi erant in tres sectas Ita secta semper parit sectam alia aliam damnat Lutherus Antinomianisme Blasphemy Ranting Divisions c. These are the best fruit we or any of the Churches of Christ ever saw of it But to passe this discourse which I believe will hardly please you I perceive you are afraid that the Apostle 1 Cor. ●2 10. saying that all men have not gift of prophecy hath thwarted your large maxime Now to this you answer 1. That that Text may be meant of extraordinary prophecy which is now ceased Very right but surely t is the same prophecying spoken of in all that Chapter and the two following and if that be extraordinary you have lost the best string to your bow But it seems you have two strings to it For secondly you tell us If it be to be understood of that prophecy which doth continue it is not against your point for then it is to be understood of a great degree of Scripture exposition and application Every one that hath the guift of prophecy hath the guift of expounding and applying but every one that hath a guift to expound and apply Scripture hath not a guift to prophecy that is to speak in publike assemblies The latter clause is unquestionably true but Sir I must mind you again of your marginall note p. 29. Vbi lex non distinguit non distinguindum est you force a sence here upon the Apostle In short to turn this trifle out of the way your sence is this Every one hath the guift of prophecy but every one hath not an eminent guift to prophecy then Sir the sence of the foregoing words must be this Every one hath the guift of healing but every one hath not the eminent guift of healing Every one hath a guift to work miracles but every one hath not an eminent guift to work miracles every one hath the guift of Tongues and interpretation of Tongues but every one hath not an eminent guift of Tongues and interpretation of Tongues Is this the Apostles sence Sir think you if it be bring forth your linguists and your miracle-working Saints or else shew us a reason why the Apostle in the words before and after should speak de re and in those words onely de gradu Et eris mihi magnus Apoll● And now I have done with your fifth proposition CHAP. VIII Containing an Examination of the sixth and seventh positions and a scanning of Mr. Sheppards proofe of them YOur sixth point is this Page 14. That the people may as well use the guift of expounding Scriptures as the preachers This you prove 1. Because the use of this guift is no where confined to any certaine men ●fficers of the Church nor others But to every one as the Spirit willeth 1 Cor. 17.7 Rom. 12.6 Act. 17.11 2. The people have the same guift of the Spirit in some degree as the Preachers have 1 Jo. 2.27 Acts 17.11 Ro. 12.5 6. and by this they did interpret in the primitive times 1 Cor. 14.26 Acts 18 26. Acts 8.4 Acts 11.19 3. All men that have this guift are commanded to use it to Gods glory and the Churches good 1 Pet. 4.10 11. It is reasonable you say they should use it for they have occasion to use it as the Preachers have c. 2. They are given and directed to the people to be used by them 3. The Scriptures exposition is as of great concernment to the people as to Preachers This terme as well troubles me again if you mean by it as publiquely and as often and ordinarily and as warrantably I deny it To your first reason I answer that the publique use of this guift is confined Christ did not say to all the Disciples but to the Apostles and their Successors onely Goe preach and baptize Matth 28 c. and what though the Apostle saith 1 Cor. 12 7. that the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withall Datur unicuique ergo nema solus habet ūniversa Pareus ad loc he opens himselfe v. 7.8 and shews that he means not that the severall

used may stand together we answer that we desire you to prove their preaching publiquely to be an Ordinance and then produce the Scriptures directing to the right use of it 5. For the Tryall you say is made and no such inconveniences appeare We answer you in severall places such hath appeared aske the Churches in New England and Holland c. I remember Sir the Fable in Esop that the Snake did not presently sting him that took it into his bosome Tell me some seven yeers hence Our second ill consequence we charged it with was That all would then preach and there would be disorder and God is the God of order To this you say That all never had nor will have this guift Yet you told us before that all the Saints having the spirit dwelling in them and this spirit being a spirit of Scripture interpretation all have this guift more or lesse 2. All are bound to exhort one another privately and you lay much strength upon that Argument 3. If all doe but think they have it it is enough who shall judge You tell us Order must be taken to regulate the exercise of it By what Scrip●ure rule there is a rule indeed for Church officers being proved but as you have exempted gifted men from the other rules given to Gospell preachers viz. Meditating giving themselves wholly to it making it their worke so surely they are exempted from this too except you produce your rule the rules about prophecying were applicable in this case which they are not there is no restriction onely that they shall not all doe it together as if the Bells rung auke Besides Sir is not order broke when one body hath ten or twenty tongues yea as many as Argus had eyes the Apostle compares the Church to a body naturall truly it should not be all tongue The third ill fruit mentioned was That it would be a ready way to let in all Errours and blasphemies To this you reply 1. You doe not believe it Doe you believe Scripture 2 Pet. 3.16 Superbia ut Augustinus verissime ait ●st mater omnium haeresium Lutherus Ne●esse enim est ut prius sit judicium quam eloquium prius sapere quam dicere Erasmus Nisi enim verba intelligamus quomodo sensam reperiemus Whitake de Scrip. q. 5. c. 9V illum ib. shewing many pieces of Scripture translated that according to the translation we cannot answer Hereticks that sayes the unlearned will wrest Scriptures prove it is meant of practicall learning Do you believe Reason Reason will tell you and so doth Scripture too 2 Tim. 6.4 that there are two fathers of Heresie Pride and Ignorance Pride is a great cause of learned mens errours when men are of crotchicall heads and then of proud spirits conceited of their own fancies 2. Ignorance when men cannot understand the Originall or weigh parallell Scriptures c. but either wrest in the lesser or run mad in Allegories and figures but you tell us The greatest learn'd men have been the greatest hereticks It is true many learned men have through pride beene dangerous heretickes Arrius Apollinaris Pelagius and Socinus were all learned men but Sir what thinke you of Iohn a Leyden Knipperdolling Becold and many others and what thinke you in our times of Collier and others Will you believe experience enquire where you heare of any nests of Ranters Antinomians Familists c. whence they came first so that there are others of that opinion besides Papists But errours the more publike they are the lesse harme they will doe Pretty Religion and a pretty argument for an Vniversall toleration let Christs face be spit upon as much as it will that his friends may wipe it off is the Glory of the Lord Jesus Christ no more pretious in your eyes Sir ' But the Preachers give all leave to Print No such matter Sir Mr. Batchelor indeed was wont to doe it but Presbyterian preachers have learn'd Christ better and tender his glory more But the abuses may be prevented and the right use retain'd 1. That which you call right use Sir is an abuse Zanchius in quartum praeceptum 2. Zanchy in quartum preceptum gives a good rule In rebus non necessariis si modo abutantur tollendus et usus abusus every body can say as much as this comes to for a Popish holiday There is no necessity any should preach without a due call But you tell us p. 70. that to avoid an errour on the left hand we must not run into one on the Right First prove it an errour Sir to hold that onely persons duly called and set apart to the office may ordinarily and publikely interpret and apply Scriptures in a constituted Church You tell us That we are not to believe and take up all the Evill reports we heare of the people of God many have been branded for Hereticks who are now in Heaven c. What 's this to the purpose Sir you dare not deny but there are errours and heresies Gal. 5.20 What if Papists and heretickes brand the Saints with those names are therefore none rightly so called what thinke you Sir of Pelagians and Socinians and Antitrinitarians of such as thinke we are Godded and there is no Angells no Devills no Heaven no hell read Jerrard Winstanly his platforme of Freedome dedicated to his Excellency à p. 55. ad p. 63. and tell me if you thinke him a Saint of God yet there are not one or two but one or two thousand rather such in England most of which if you enquire you will I believe find either have been Preaching Brethren or their hearers and where ever they are met they have a Brother to preach to them and defie a Minister of the Gospell c. I have heard of some that would never believe there were any witches till they or some of their friends were bewitched Sir I trust If you have any you have a more vertuous yoke fellow but if you had a wife that with hearing a Cobler preach for the Community of all things had beene so convinced as to have made her selfe common and have gone from you and joyn'd with a party of those principles and two or three yeares after come home with a Child or two more then you had seene before as some I could tell you of in the world this day have beene served you might then possibly believe there were Heretickes and yet these persons were high professors and pretended much to the Spirit In the next place p. 72. you tell us God will discover Hypocrites in ●he last dayes What then must we therefore permit heresies or meanes directly tending to them or would you infer from hence that in order to this discovery gifted men should be permitted to preach You say we might as well have reproach'd Christ and the Apostles for Judas Peter Ananias and Sapphira Demas You are very unhappy Sir at making parallells you tell us here of a