28. P. Piâ—s the second u Abbaâ— Vespersâ—nâ—is p. 443. and Others In conclusion then seeing the hearing of vnlawfull Ministers is flat against scripture articles as we haâ—e partly manifested and God willing more will doe we â— must 〈◊〉 as Ierome x in Mat. 23 speakes it though it should in the meane time be iustified and practised by many Churches and people The second thing which he desires may be noted is that this hearing was not in the iudgement of the Church esteemed as a thinge that might not be borne with all Answ 1 The doctrine of the Nicolaitans which was a Trenan l. 1 27. Epiphanc 1. Tom. 1. Eâ—â—â—â— 3. 29. that adulterie and fornication were no sinnes and that men might communicate with the sacrifices of Idolaters in their idol temples was not in the iudgment of the Churches at Pergamos and Thyatira esteemed as a thing that might not be borne withall was the same therfore good indeed such a conclusion we must either here gather from his wordes or conclude he knew not well what he wrote 2. To the iudgement of that Church when they wrote to London I may oppose their former and better iudgment ffor with reverence to the Phrase from the beginning this was not soe ffor in their constitution and many yeares after they held * Remember therfore from vvhâ—nce thou art fallen and repent and doe the first vvorkes Reu. 2. 5. hearing of vnlawfull Ministers a very vnlawful practise And so much appeares in sundry passages Published to the world by the Pastor himselfe And for the Readers better satisfaction I thinke it not amisse to sert downe their Owne words Those b Munumission to a manuduction pag. 5. who partake in the worke of Preaching of one sent by the Bp DOE PARTAKE IN WHAT LYETH JN THEM IN THE AVTHORITY OF THE SENDER Againe The authorite of Ministers in their Parishionall Churches c Page 4. may not be by Gods people partaken with no not in actions otherwise Lawfull vnder the paines of Babilons Plagues Againe in another booke d Religious Communion pag. 20. thus they write Let all them that feare God consider that when they come to worship in the Parish Assemblyes they joyne themselues where God hath not joyned them and doe acknowledge that societie for the Church of God and communion of saints which he hath not sanctifyed for that purpose and in saying ourfather with them they acknowledge them for the children of God who in the perswation of their consciences are of their father the divel And in the same booke a little after e pag. 32. Their very administrations by vnlawfull calling are the sinnes and so to PARTAKE WITH THEM IN THEIR ADMINISTRATIONS IS TO PARTAKE WITH THEM IN THEIR SINNES contrary to Timot. 5. 22. Reu. 14. 4. In their answere to Maister Barnerds booke thus they write largesie of this point f Justification of Separat pag. 78. 79. 80. â—e also page 17. 162. 276. 433. Some of which is as followeth But the thing which most grieves Mr. B and at which he hath greatest indignation Pap. 62. is that we will not heare his sermons though he preach nothing but the true word of God And so he desires to heare of vs where the hearing of the true word of God onely preached is sinn and forbidden by Christ or the Prophets or Apostles For answer hereof I would know first whether Mr. B. speaking here and in many other places of the true Word of God do means that God hath a true word and a false word or rather bewray not an accusing conscience that they in England have not the true word truely taught that is in a true office of Ministery Now for the demaund referring the reader for more full satisfaction to that which hath bene published at large by others I do answer that as it was vnlawfull to * Nâ—mb 16. 2. Câ— 26. 1 King 12. communicate with Corah or with vzziah though they offered true sacrifices so IS IT VNLAWFVL TO COMMVNICATE WITH ADEVISED MINSTERY WHAT TRVTH SOEVER IS TAVGHT IN IT Secondly the Lord hath promised no blessing to his word but in his owe ordinance though by his superaboundand mercy he oft tymes vouchsafe that which no man can chalendg by any ordinary promise Thirdly * no man may partake in other mens sinns â—â—m 5. 12. but euery Ministery eyther devised or vsurped is the sinn of him which exerciseth it Rev. 18. 4. And as no good subject would assist or communicate with any person in the administration of civil Justice to the Kings subjects no not though he administred the same never so equally and indifferrently except the same person had commission from the King so to do so neyther ought the subjects of the kingdome of Christ to partake with any person whomsoever in the dispensation of any spirituall thing though in it self never so holy withot sufficient warrant and commission from the most absolute and sovereigne King of his Church Christ Iesus And where Mr. B. speaks of hearing the true word of God only preached he intimates therin that if we would heare him preach it would satisfy him well and so teacheth vs with himselfe and others to make a schisme in the Church in vsing one ordinance and not an other It is all one whether a man communicate with the minister in his pulpit or with the Chauncelor in his consistory both of them minister by the same power of the Bishop The Chauncelor may iudge justly who knowes whither or no the Minister will teach truely And if he doe not but speak the vision of his owne heart what remedy hath the Church or what can they that hear him do May they rebuke him openly according to his sin and so bring him to repentance or must they not beare his errors yea his heresyes also during the pleasure of the Bishops even their Lord his And would you Mr. B. be content your people should heare a masse-Priest or Jesuite though he professed as loud as you do that he would teach the true word of God And think not scorne of the match for you haue the selfe same office with a masse Preist though refyned If he be ordayned by a Bishop though it be the Bishop of Rome he may minister in any Church of England by vertue of that ordination Andbesides masse-Preists preach some and those the mayne truthes and the Ministers in England neither do nor dare preach all no nor some which it may be the others do Is it not better then for the servants of the L. Iesus to exercise and aedify themselves according to the model of grace receaved though in weaker measure then to be so simple as to come to your feasts though you cry never so loud vnto them thinking that because your stoln waters are sweet and your hidden bread pleasant that they have no power to passe by but must needs become your guests And here
A Stay against Straying OR An Ansâ—â—â— to a Treatise intituled The Laâ—fulnes of hearing the Ministers of the Church of England By JOHN ROBINSON Wherein Is proved the contrarie viz. The unlawfulnes of hearing the Ministers of all false Churches By JOHN CANNE ESA. 57. 14. And he shall say 〈◊〉 ye up 〈…〉 prepare the way take up the 〈…〉 way of my people Printed in the Yeare 1639. ERRATA P. 2 l. 1. read they l. 39. the wanting P. 5 l. 28 r. Calfes P. 11 l. 38 r. Ministry P. 52 l. 6 r. doer P. 57 l. 25 r. Claidon P. 59 l. 11 r. resorted P. 83 l. 16 r. follie P. 86 l. 2 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 P. 88 l. 30 r. dicit P. 120 l. 2 r. streathned For other faults if thou findest any I desire that thy love may be such as to amend them thy selfe To all such as desire to receive and follovv the truth in Love and vvith holines The feeling assurance of life and peace be vvished in Iesus Christ. Men Fathers and Brethren WHAT the Lord saith touching the revealing of the Man of sinne 2 Thes 2 8. and the consuming of him by the brightnes of Christs comming We may see blessed be God for it now accomplished in a great measure For whereas in times past many of the Professors have used both their tongues and pennes to plead for their Parish-Churches Ministerie and Worshipp They now beeing of sounder mindes and better informed let those things fall Insomuch as there are few if any except Formalists and Familists virtutem qui verba putant ut lucum ligna as Horace speaketh and men of corrupt minds vvho suppose that gaine is godlines That will appeare in the defence thereof So that in likelyhood for the time to come there wil be little use for any man to write any more against that Church-state Minister ie Worship Government seeing the falsnes thereof is now seene and acknowledged of the honester and better sort every where Notwithstanding as Pharoah used sundry meanes to stay Israell still in Egypt after he saw them desirous to depart So doth Satan labour what hee can to hold Gods people in spirituall thraldome after he perceives they are willing to obey Gods call and come out of it And that he may bring to passe what he desireth hee useth most effectuall delusions deep deceits Well knowing that the snares which he laid in our forefathers blind and ignorant dayes are now out of date and will not serve the turne to beguile many people withall But he must more transforme himselfe into an Angell of Light I say use more artificiall and craftie devises then formerly he hath done It is said of Praxiteles * Clemen Alex â—in protrept the Painter that hee made the sillie people worship the Image of his strumper under the title and pretence of Venus Now sure I am in those dayes there are some who under the name of Gods vvorship doe cause many people to worship Satan and Antichrist And that men may the easier and sooner be perswaded to it they set forth their lies and vanities in as plausible faire away as can be What man would seeme to deale so plainly as a Iugter Hee will strike up his sleeves and make bare his armes and open his hands and fingers and lay all things before thee and bid thee behold and thou wouldst thinke him to be a man of a faire carriage and not imagine thou couldst possiblie be deceived And yet indeed his whole skill and seeking is nothing else but to deceive and the more simplie and plainly he would seeme to deale the sooner and easier he doth beguile thee For thou shalt thinke thou seest all and seest nothing Feelest it senceablie with thy fingers holdest it fast canst not loose it and yet shall open thy hand and finde nothing The passages of some men in points of Religion are carried much after such a sort For one would thinke to heare the smoothnes of their tale and what integritie and plainnes they doe professe That it is all Gospell they speake and that their cause is cleare and nothing is to be said to the contrarie Notwithstanding when another comes forth and replies against them rips up their tale weighs their reasons discloseth the errour and weaknes of their pleading Men wonder at their owne simplicitie and ignorance and that ever they should be so fond as to beleeve them But seeing I am now to deale only in the point of hearing of false Ministers I will not therefore step out of the beaten way to take in any by-discourse Only I thinke good to certifie that I marvaile that such men who walke not as we doe in Church-way but thinke us to censorious and over just Why they doe not publickly answer our grounds and arguments published to the world and so prove their nevv Principles in as faire and open a way that either we may come to them finding them to walke more agreeable to the Scriptures or shew our reasons to the contrarie For the matter here in controuersie That the Reader may profit the more by it there are 5 things which J desire him to doe 1. When thou settest thy selfe to read set thy selfe as in Gods presence looke on with a single and impartiall eye weigh the arguments well on both sides not by shewes and shifts but by the just Ballance of the incorruptible and unchangable Word of God In judging judge I beseech thee righteous judgment and let the truth be deare to thy soule and doe not side with any side because thy minde gives thee it leadeth most to ease credit profit pleasure or such wordly respects but to that which most tendeth to the glorie of Gods great name the purity of religion and to the most comfort and peace of thy own conscience 2. I would have thee to live by thy owne faith and not build upon anothers fancie it is a great fault in some in that they see nothing but by other mens eyes What this man or such a man holdeth that is their beleife And besides this they can give no more reason for what they hold then the Parrat of her speaking I need not goe farre for proofe The point in controversie cleares it sufficiently For as one ‡ Galen Clas 2. lib. de cuiusq animi peccat notitia at que medela well saith That which a credible person telleth is easilie thought credible by such as are well perswaded of him What hath drawn many unto this practice of Hearing unlawfull Ministers But taking the thing upon trust without due triall and examination Sure I am had men measured it by the Goulden Read of the Scriptures they would soon have perceived that it was never set apart by Gods appointment for the spirituall building 3. Be not wise in thy ovvne eyes But rather deny thy selfe in thy own judgment vvill affection reason c. And be contented to bee guided by the alone Word
of God What is the reason that some men doe seeke after the truth as a coward doth his enemie loath to find him But because loving their owne conceit as Apes their yong ones beyond measure they are not willing to heare of any thing that is said against it We see in nature he that will heare well must stopp his breath It is so in things spirituall if a man will not keep in his breath I meane set aside conceitednes selfe-love be willing to embrace the truth though it be contrarie to that which he formerly held he shall not profit by any thing he heareth or readeth but like Pharoahs◠kine remaine lean ilfavored still Things in the earth will grow as they find roome A Light in the dampes of mines goeth out Thus stands the case with men when any good helpe is pur into their hands If their hearts then be free of selfe-love spirituall pride personall prejudice base desire of vaine glorie and humaine applause c. They will profit by it Contrariwise if their hearts like a deepe hole be full of those filthy Foggs Mists the truth then how clearely soever it shine will dampe quench in them as a light in the mines of the earth 4. Civile dig 4. de legib Senatusque consult Whereas the Civil Lavv saith it is uncivil for any man not having vveighed the vvhole Lavv to give advice or judgement some one parcel of it alone proposed I doe therefore intreat the Reader to forbeare his Censure till he have read the whole booke over And if it be so that he thinkes in some point I have erred as who liveth erreth not I would not have him for such a particular fayling to condemne the whole But let that beare its owne burden and let the rest be received as after due trial the same shal be found agreeable to the Word of God I speake not this as beeing privy to any known crime this way But because I am privy to many known wants great weaknesses in my selfe Besides it is the manner of some if they can spy some thing not well handled in another mans writing to take such advantage as hereby they seeke to bring the whole under reproofe and condemnation Of this shal be all their talke at this they will gird and jest not beeing able in the meane time to take away the force of any one of the maine arguments Neither indeed dare to attempt it but like the snaile keepe in their hornes 5. I thinke good to speake here a little concerning the manner of this answer And that no man may be offended as it I doe professe in the Word of truth that it hath much greeved me all along the discourse to speake so much of the Treatiser whose learning I doe much reverence But the cause beeing the Lords and I seeing how much it lay upon me to take away the Maskes and visards whereby many have been deceived I have done my best to shew the absurdities contradictiōs unskilfulnes daungerousnes of that Treatise And for this not sparing but speaking home I have had some reasons for it as partly here follow 1. Because the Booke containes a pernitious most hurtfull errour and by how much it is caried forth under a colourable shew of a pious and godly practice by so much the more hath it caused many greevious long lasting miseries I know there are many viler errours dayly maintained But if we respect mens walking in the Holie Order of the Gospell this is a main stumbling block barre in the way to it There are some humours which some where placed in the body are quiet and doe little hurt but in other places specially in the passage they doe much mischiefe This errour is as a corrupt humour fallen into the passage of the bodie the Church and therefore it must needs be the more perilous 2. I have spoken the more plainely against it because they say there are manie in England and in other Countries who hold it unlawfull to be present at their divine service and to receive the Sacraments in the Parish-Churches and yet thinke it lawfull to heare the Ministers of that Church Now if such men have as had David tender hearts and hearts that will smite them for a little They will surely come off from this too Seeing I have here proved that the ground they build on is very sand and their pleading for it wants both Religion reason 3. Such a general fame is gone forth of the booke as to be so learnedly absolutely done that it gives all men satisfaction some few riged spirits only excepted that no man would ever be able to make any sound reply to it And for my selfe I have been by name chalenged as it were to answer with much base insulation as if I d urst rather eate my pen then put my pen to write against it And this both before my thoughts were setled on thing and since too Now whether the worke be according to the praise of it let all indifferent men judge 4. Seeing it is given out but me thinkes it should not be true that there are some learned men which plead for the Hearing of false Ministers and upon the Treat grounds I have therefore discovered the sleightnes of it to say no worse the more That such if there be any such may see their errour If not reply if they please when they wil. But for the person or persons that shall reply These 3 things I desire may be considered 1. That they change not the state of the question which is not whether it be lawfull to heare the Ministers of the church of England or of Rome or of any Church But taking it granted a Church to be false the Ministerie Antichristian vvhether Hearing in such a case be lawfull For the question now stands thus no otherwise 2. J exspect an answer in a more honest fairer way then I had the last time namly by a sort of gnats * It hath beē objected as I heare that I should answere dead mē now how so ever it is wel known that my former booke was both finish ed and at the Presse before Dr. Ames death yet say I had writen after his death doe not all mē know that in points of differēces we haue respect to the matter it self no to any person on either side holding the same whom I felt but never saw the Law of God and Light of Nature teacheth Quod tibi vis fieri hoc facias alteri Indeed it is a very unbeseeming thing that men who doe professe Religion learning should disgrace other mens worke behinde their backs shunning in the meane time the open light whereby their deeds might be made manifest As for such Replyers whose arguments are Trencher-squibs and reach only as farr as to the end of the table ‡ Not soe farr as to pen Inke paper to
make a true Church That the Archbishops and Bishops of England deriue their lineal successions and Episcopal dignitie from St. Peters Chaire and the verie Sea of Rome and that we should not acknowleidge them for Bishops in case they either did not or could not doe soe That the Pope of Rome or papacy is not the Antichrist nor Antichrist yet come or reuealed That Crucifixes and Images in Churches are lawfull and necessarie comlie ornaments That Christ is really present vpon earth on the high Altar and Communion table That Communion tables are Altars Ministers of the Gospel Priects serving at the Altar the Sacrament of the Lords supper the Sacrament of the Altar and may yea ought so to be phrased That men ought to bow to Altars Communion-tables and to place rayle them in Altar-wise at the east end of the Church and come up to them and receiue when there is a Sacrament and that Ministers must read their second seruise at them when there is none That auricular confession to a Preist and absolution are very fitting and necessarie That the Lords day is no Sabbath That it is lewish to call it or keepe it as a Sabbath That it is not of divine but humaine institution not with in the morality of the 4. commaundement That two howres only of it is to be sanctified not the whole day That Morises dauncing sports and pastimes yea labours of mens calling not speciallie prohibited by 〈◊〉 â—â—maine lawes even out of cases of necessitie are lawfull on it That men may fall totally finally from Grace That they haue freewill and may exactly fulfill the Law of God if they please themselves That men are justified by workes yea by charitie and not by faith alone That men are elected from the foresight of faith and workes and reprobated only out of the foresight of their sinnes That there is a vniversall grace given to all men whereby they may be saued if they will That Christ died alike for all men whatsoeuer That preaching is an extraordinary thing * VVelfare the Bishops vvho are true to their ground for it is an extraordinary thing vvith them to proach only for extraordinary times and belonging to none but extraordinary men That one Sermon in a month is enough and better then two a day That reading is properly preaching That Archbishops Bishops Episcopall jurisdiction and degree aboue other Ministers is jure divino That the Ministers know more then the Lay-people the Bishops more then the Ministers the Archbishops more then the Bishops And therefore what ever the Ministers shall teach or prescribe the people what ever the Bishops the Ministers people what ever the Archbishops the Bishops Mininisters people too are bound to beleeve obey without further question or dispute That the Popes Lawes Decrees Canon Lawes are still in force our Church ought to be governed by them our Ecclesiasticall Courts proceed lecally according to them That Bishops have power to make publish Articles Canons Injunctions Oathes Rites Ceremonies in their owne names rights and to enforce both Ministers people to obey them That they may silence suspend excommunicate yea deprive imprison Ministers at their at their pleasure without any legall cause That Bishops are not bound to preach so much or so oft as other men though they have greater wages and so should doe more worke That they may Lawfully and laudablie neglect their spirituall functions to mannage temporall Offices and affaires exercise both Swords at once and rule both Church and State together Now that the Reader may be sure what I here set downe is true let him peruse a Booke entituled the Quench-Coale and there he shall finde all these Assertions affirmed in an Epistle written unto the King 5. Whereas he saith in a Church that is false in respect of outward Order there may be taught many sound and seasonable truths This I grant for Iesuites and other Heretickes deliver oft-times many true Doctrines And what of this may we therefore Lawfully heare them In no cause For as one a Vsus est Nabuchodonosor Musicis InstrumeÌ„tis in erectione statuae ut homines ad ejus honorem venerationem excitaret Pintus Comment in Dan. cap. 3. pag. 195. saith of the Musicall Instruments which Nabuchadnezzar had in the plaine of Dura they were brought thither that men thereby might be the sooner drawne to honour and worship the goulden Image So truly are the Truths taught in false Churches a bewitching Musick to lead people unto them and to cause them to fall downe before the Idols of the place set up by Worldly Princes against the expresse Commaundement of Iesus Christ Againe howsover the Priests he pleads for Preach sometime sound truths notwithstanding otherwhile they speake vaine and foolish things Mr. Fox b Acts Monum pag. 1027 reports of one Hostius who being in Gaunt was tould that a certaine Fryer there used to preach good and sound Doctrine But when he came to his Church he heard him justifie Transubstantion and nothing else And the like comes many times to passe that men reputed rare Preachers make whole Sermons in defence of grosse Idolatry and speake most reproachfully against the way and worship of God This being so I would know of the Pist if a man be present when such blasphemous Positions are delivered whether he offend If he say No then it followes that a man may heare any one and any where and his distinction between hearing this Priest and not that is nihil adversum impertinent and idle If he say Yes then it must follow from his owne grant that no falâ—e Minister is to be heard unlesse a man know before hand that he will not speake perverse things SECTION 4. THat the Church here pleaded for is Antichristian and false the Epist doth acknowledge Yet saith he that worshipping of God which consisteth in hearing his Word is warrantable for us to doe there And so much he undertakes to prove by this Argument That Preaching which ordinarily begits men to the faith of Christ may lawfully be heard But the Preaching of many Ministers in the Church of England hath and doth ordinarily beget men to the faith of Christ Therefore the Preaching of many Ministers in England may lawfully be heard The first part of this sillogisme is proved out of Rom. 10. Where the Apostle telling what is the ordinary way God used to beget men to the faith of Christ telles us it comes by hearing of the word of God preached if faith comes by hearing the Word of God preached to wit if that be the outward meanes then there is no question but that a man may heare such preaching and any man may blush for shame that shall deny this So that the major part of the Argument is cleare And for the Minor parte they can not deny it no more then a man at noon day can deny the sunne to shine for if
Idolatrous act although in the mean time he exercise an antichristian office hence this must follow viz soe the truth be preached it is no matter whether the preacher bee sent from Antichrist or from Christ nor whether he preach at Dan and Bethell or at Ierusalem in the temple For if the former committ no idolatrous act hee is then as blamles in his way as the latter is in his Better the Treat had spared his words and lookd better to his answere or eat them both then to blott paper and abuse the reader with such unsound and hurtfall assertions SECT 6. OVr 4. Objection is laid downe for vs thus Hee that heares them preach heares them as ministers of the Church of England and as sent by the Bishops and soe in hearing them heares receaves them that sent them according to that of our Saviour hee that heares you heares me and hee that dispiseth you dispiseth me and hee that dispiseth mee dispiseth him that sent mee It was some addition to Davids n 1 Sam 17 51. victory over the Philistime that he slew him with his owne sword The taâ—ke is very easie to coÌ„fute all that the Treat here writes against vs by the engine of his owne acknowledgements For to say the truth Howsoever hee frames Objections for vs yet originally they are his owne and even word for word published by himself in former books to the world so that Obliquus cursus forgetting as it were What he had before held and written he makes himselfe in this controversie his owne greatest opposite Thâ—t this Objection can call no man Father so properly as the Treat Jt is certane for to my knowledge no man but himselfe hath used it Indeed he hath done it and applyed iâ—to the same purpose that he brings it here for us that is against the Hearing of unlavvfull Ministers His words are these o Manumiss to a Manuduct pag 9. If it belong to the chief Prelates to call Ministers that in calling them they give them power and authority though no absolute charge to preach according to the order of that Church Then followeth it undeniably that those Ministers thus preaching doo therein exercise the Prelates power And that it may be said of the Ministers Bishops as Christ said of his Disciples and himselfe that whosoever receives them that are sent receives them that sent them In submitting unto or withdrawing from him that is sent by the King in a worke of his Office men doe submitt unto or with-draw from the King himselfe and his authority So it is in all estates and subordinations whether Ecclesiasticall or Civill as every one that is not dimme in himselfe may see by the light of nature So writes the Treat Now let us see how he confutes himselfe I grant the former part of the Objection Treat and account the denying of it a point of Familisme seeing the Officers of publique states in the executing of their offices are to be esteemed according to the publick Lawes and Orders of those states and not according to any under hand course or intention either by themselves or others Answ A man that goes with a vaile before his eyes comes now and then into his waye although he know it not The Treat in this walke about Hearing in false Churches is sometimes cut otherwhile in he sayes and unsayes But so farre as he speakes the truth he speakes it against himselfe for his answer here it is nothing but a yeelding the case in some compasse and circumlocution of words and that the Reader may perceive it is so I will make it obvious and cleare to him by an argument or two and first thus If to heare Antichristian Ministers be to serve God in and by an ordinance way or institution devised by idolaters and with idolaters Then is it unlawfull But the first is true therefore the second The proposition is undeniable by the Treat owne confession For he grants that 〈◊〉 course of hearing is no ordinance left us by Christ Then 〈◊〉 it must be from Antichrist Againe he professeth they 〈…〉 as they preach and preach as Ministers of the 〈…〉 according to the publicke 〈…〉 is to speake 〈…〉 forme religious worship to God in and by a publick ordinance way and state which idolaters have invented and with idolaters This I say aperto pectore he grants to the full And no marvaile for to deny it were an audacious fiction monstrous unparelled presumption and would marke a man out for an Athesticall Familist as perspicuous as the leprosie of Vzziah which brake forth in his forehead The Assumption is as manifest For 1. by the Scriptures a Deu. 12. 30. Levit 18. 3. Exo. 23. 24. Levit. 9 27. 28. Deu. 14. 1 Levit. 19. 17. Gen. 35. 2. 3. Esa 27. 9. wee are prohibited from all conformitie with idolaters in any of their wayes order and manner of worship and Religious Observations It was the custome b Herodot in Thalia Becan in analog vet nov Test c. 15. of the Arabians and other Heathens in imitation of Dyonisius that is Bacchus to round the corners of their head Now this the Israelites might not doe c Levit. 19. 27. though in it selfe an indifferent thing d Calvin in Levit. 19. 17. because God would not have them to bee like idolaters This also may be further proved by the testimonie of learned men For to have any thing common with idolaters or to serve God after any way of theirs Or to take up and make use of any of their rites orders observations institutions for to worshipp God in or by them they hold to be unlawfull Yea howbeit a man be not in Ecclesiasticall union with them Thus have the old Fathers affirmed e Tertull de Coron Milit. Greg. lib. 1. Epist 44. ad Leon. Theod l. 1. c. 10. August Epist 86. ad Casul So our later writers Calvinists f Pareus in 1 Cor. 10 14. Bucer in Mat. 18. fol. 143. Beza Tract Theol. vol. 3. pag. 210. Lutherans g Cent. 4. c. 13 col 406. Chemnâ—t Exam. Theol. Melanct. par 2. pag. 491. formall Protestants h B. Iewell upon 1. Thes 5. p. 219. Sulclief Chal. pag. 62. in England Reformists i Perth assemb p. 55. 56. Alt. Damas p. 539. Papists k Bellar. de Monach. c. 40. de effect sacr l. 2. c. 31. Sect. 10. Rhemist annot on 1. Cor. 6. 14. 1. Timot. 6. Sect. 4. in Apoc. 1. 10. and Schoolemen l Aquin. 1. 2 a. q. 102. Art 6. c. 6. m. yea many Iew-Doctors m See Mr. Ainsworth in Levit. 19. 27. some Councils n Toledo Can. 5. 40. Laod. c. 38. Brac. Can. 32. 73. have thus concluded and the Cannon-Law o Deer Par. 2. Caus 26. quaest 7. c. 13. c. 14. c. 17. speakes so too And here I desire the Reader to observe that were the grounds true which
to use the Pistlers words it is wel to be marked by the Reader how the Church when these thinges were written enioyed as a Pastor so a iudicious Ruling Elder too and their company greater by farre then it was when that letter was framed Such as write of the Government of Common-wealths doe hold it for a rule that to redresse abuses in any State a better Way cannot be taken then to haue thinges brought to their first institution Hence it is that the Venetians haue a supreame Magistracie which they call A Syndicate that once in a few yeares â— surveyâ— all the Offices and dignities in their wealth that so all things may continue and stand entyre according to the rules and precepts of their first Constitutions and Ordinances If the Pistler had desired the common good of that Church he would haue sought to haue had thinges reduced to their primitiue Originall and good beginning and not Mention as he doth their depriuations declinations departures * serâ—enâ— qualitas viâ—i dignoscitur as a rule for all Posterity to measure their faith and actions by It is an infallible maxime as D Vsher g De Christianor Eccl. success et statâ—â— cap. 1. pag. 19. and other obserue out of Tertullian h Id verum quodcunque primum id adultorum quod cunque posterius whatsoeuer is first that is truest and what comes after is adulterate The first in any kind or sort of thinges is truest and best so Feild 3. But admitt there were many that held this hearing lawfull and soo haue don along time what of this is the thing he better for that in no wiâ—e For not custome or multitudes must be followed but the truth of Gods word Walke ye not in the statutes of your fathers I. Of the Church l. 2. c. 5. p. 49. neither Obserue their iudgments nor defiâ—e your selues with their idols k Ezech. 20. The like precept we haue in 3 â—ch 11. Follow not that which is euil but that which is good Cyprian and others of the Fathers as they are called speake wel to this purpose we must l Non debemus attendeâ—e quid alius ante nos fâ—cerit aut faciendum putauerit sed quid ante omnes est Christus prior fecerit Cypâ— Epist 63. not regard what others did be fore vs or thought fitt to be don but what Christ did who was before all We Must m non est de consuetudene praescribendum sed ratione vin cendum Epist 74. not prescribe vpon custome but perswade by reason Whatsoeuer n Tertullian lib de viâ—g sauoreth against the truth it is heresie be the practice thereof neuer so ancient Non illa tantum in religione fugienda quae Verbo dei adversantur sed ea etiam quae verbo dei non sunt praescripta etiamsi ab acutissimis hominibus excogitata a doctissimis defensa et diuturna consu etudine recepta Not only in religion must we auoyd all thinges contrary to the word of God but also whatsoeuer is not therein prescribed o Polanus Comment in Ezec 20 pag 481. yea howbeit the same should be deuised by the acutest men defended by the most learned and receiued by long custome Then we serue God p. Fox Act. and mon p. 18 29. when in his worship we follow his word and not mans fantasies custome multitude c so Bradford the martyr Thus we haue according to his intreatie taken a vew of his two thinges the which are so vaine and frivelous as indeed deserued no answere yet least any of that faction should thinke we passed them over without any examintion because we feared the weight and force thereof I haue breiflie replyed and desire the humble and godly Reader to conâ—ider what both haue written SECTION 3. â—The Epistoler hauing ended his two obseruations prepareth now himselfe in the next place in earnest for disputation * Dulce bellâ—â—â— in expertis And first of all after some spitefull words cast on his opposites like Thraso in Terence who thought himselfe a none-such o. Metuebant omnes iam me in Eunuch and thereupon boastingly prayseth himselfe They are all affraid of me Act 3. sc 1. as if he had don some great peâ—ceâ— of seruice he daringlie prouokes who * Et calum territat armis Virg. in Aeneid will to reply if their stomacks serue And because he will speake omissis nugis to the purpose indeed He vndertakes to handle the point in controversie methodicallie that is to propound first his opposites obiections And afterwards to giue some answere to them First sayth he they obiect say that we hould the Church of England to be a false Church and the ministers thereof to be Antichristian and yet we goe thither to worship and this say they is absurd His answere hereto is Before wee answere directlie to this obiection we shall intreat the Reader and themselues to consider of what followes Answ we read of one Doria the Admiral of Genua that fighting at sea against the Sarasens he fetched his course so farre about to gaine the wind that he could neuer come to strike a blow before the battle was ended The Epist is here fallen into such a wild and wandring course for seeking to get some advantage by windy wordes he goes quite away from the thing which he propounded and comes not againe to speake either much or little of it But no maruaile our new maister * It seemes the Pist is one of Antontes scholers mentioned in Tullie vvho vvisheth men if they be trobled about a hard question to say nothing to it hath shewed vs such a trick Cic de orat l. 2 the truth is as one a D. Couel Church Gouerment c 1 p 5 speakes in the like case he made the obiection stronger then he was able to answere Better therfore to be silent then light a candle to discouer his owne nakednes But it may be he or others of that side wil be the more willing to reply if they shall se this argument laid downe in some better forme If that will doe it we will doe our best to make way for them Thus then we reason To worship God in any other way or manner then he hath in his word prescribed is vnlawfull But to heare Antichristian Ministers in false Churches is to worship God in a way and manner which he hath not prescribed Therefore it is a sinne to doe it The maior no man dares deny I assure my selfe For it is manifest and certane by the whole course of the scriptures Deu 12. 8. Leuit. 10. 20. psa 119 133 Mic. 7. 18 Hos 9. 15 Ihon 4. 23. mat 15. 3. 4. Colos 2 8. 2 Ioh. 16. 17. Moreouer all sorts and sects of writers acknowledge this For a truth Zanchy b Explicat in Coloss 2â— 23. pag. â—19 Toâ—â— 4 saith Deus et solus vult coli et eo solo
respect of fayth and doctrine If he grant this as needes he must vnlesse he haue their spirit whome the Apostle h 1 Pet. 2 10 termeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prosumptuous and selfe-willed note then the consequence as his respects are foolish so the Church he pleads for hearing in is false in both his two respects The reason is because the Israelites when they worshipped at Dan and Bethel were not in respect of faith and doctrine to vse his termes more corrupt then the other now is And because he vndertakes nudo capite bare-faced and bouldlie to defend Antichrists cause we shall exspect in his next Pistle-making some thing from him which hitherto no man hath attempted that is to answere M r. Ainsworth i Iâ—roboamâ—â—â—pology in his Arrovv against idolatry and the non-conformists k Course of Conformity p. 161 162 who affirme that the Apostate Jewes could justifie their way and course of religion as well if not better then the other In short therefore if he can shew vs what essentiall truths his disordered Church retaineth or grosse errours reiecteth wherein we cannot manifest that the other went as farre For my part I will freelie confesse my errour in beeing a long time perswaded omnia similia that they are both alike one no better then the other 3. Are the Lords ordinances with the Pist only matter of order What is the Church of Christ his ministerie the right administrations of the Sacraments Censures no points of fayth oh fearefull saying Not only is there wrong here don to the scriptures but also to many worthy Christians For were this true they haue sunne in vaine their suffrings haue been invaine I meane our predicessors and others who haue suffered joyfullie the spoyling of their goods spilling of their blood c. I say for this which according to his writing is no point of faith and doctrine But we need not wonder that Gods house and his Ordinances are thus slighted of him doe not all adulterers after they haue sett their vncleane affections on strangers thinke meanlie of their own wiues disgrace them what they can so doe Idolaters c. Now I doe not know this gentleman excluded one man that hath affirmed that the whole outward worshipp of God to be no point of faith Cartwright speaking of this termes it the substance of the Gospel k T. C. l. 1 pag. 48 Pag. 26 And in the same answere to Whitgyfe he writes thus You say that in matters of faith and necessarie to saluation it holdeth which thinges you oppose afterwards and sett against matters of ceremonies orders discipline and Government as though matters of discipline and kind of government were not matters necessarie to saluation and of faith The case which you put whether the Bishop of Rome be head of the Church is a matter that concerneth the Government kind of Government of the Church aud the same is a matter that toucheth faith and that standeth vpon our saluation Excommunication and other censures of the Church which are fore-runners vnto excommunication are matters of discipline and the same are also of Faith and Saluation The sacraments of the Lord his Supper and of Baptisme are ceremonies and are matters of Faith and necessarie to salvation So Fenner l Difence of Eccles discipl pag. 33 certaine points of discipline are of necessitie to salvation in such absolute degree of necessitie as is of any ordinarie outward meanes Of which sore is the ministerie of the word and of the sacraments and of the censures of the Church Others of the Non-conformists I could alleidge which say the same as Parker m De pol. Eccles l. 1 c. 11 pa. 30 Traverse n Necessitie of discip p. 21. Vdal o Demonst discipl pref Baines p Dioces Trial. pa. 50. Bates q Pa. 60 Yea and Conformists too as Bilson r Perpet Govern ch 1 p. 3 Whitgyft s Treat 2 c. 1 divis 2. pa. 80 Sutclift t Câ—â—t Bez. c. 2 p. 32 Loe u Compl. of the Church p. 60 Adde to these Scultingius x Hierar Anacr l. 9. p. 1 the Papist Who cals Ecclesiasticall Politie the soule joynts and synews of the Church Besides howsoever the Pist puts out the whole externall worship of God from beeing points of faith yet the Reformed Churches in France y Art 25 and the Low cuntries z Art 30 doe put this in as an article of their faith To be short that which he cals order is in the Treatisers a Iustif separ p. 348 opinion absolutely necessarie to the Church an essentiall propertie And as D. Ames b De consc l. 4 c 24. p. 214 saith it cannot be a true Church that wants it For by this the parts and members thereof are knit together And this is true as in divinitie so in Philosophie For Forme according to Aristotle c 3 Phis 3 5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the reason of the essence Another Euerie thing is senceable by matter and intelligible by forme d Averr in 1. de Calo. As thinges by the light are decerned so we vnderstand the matter by its forme e Boeth de vnit It is a knowne Tenent Forme guies to things being distinction and operation So Keckerman f Syst Theol. l. 1. c. 17. p. 161 Timpler g Metaph l. 3 c. 2. Prâ—bl 71 72. Câ—â—rlm h C. 6 pag. 35 Scallger i Ex. 6 S. 3. and others 4. Seeing he holds it vnlawfull to goe vnto any Church which is false in respect of order and doctrine it must needs follow that all Antichristian Assemblies are to be wholy left because they are false in both these respects And touching the Church of England here pleaded for what notorious errours and abuses she mainteaneth and practiseth may be seen in her Convocation-Canons visitations Articles the English masse booke their manner of making of Bishops Priests and Deacons To let passe the many scoores of heathenish Iewish and poopish superstitions which the Nonconformists * See Souldier of Barvvick Table haue in printed bookes branded her for And that the measure of her iniquitie Syons pleà may come to a speedie fulnes Admonitions to the Parliament Altar of Damascus and other of their bookes Let the Reader obserue the multitude of grosse errours which she hath added latelie to the former And these not onelie in printed bookes the high commission sermons in the court city vniversity cuntry averred but also allowed them by publick authority among sundry other Romish erronious positions these p Sec Chovvne Reeve Pocklinton Heylen B. VVhite B. Mountagùe Shelford Pâ—imerose Laurence Studly Coale from the Altar Bishcp VVren other Prelates their visitation Articles The Church of Rome is a true Church That she hath neuer erred in fundamentals no not in the worse times That personal succession of Bishops is requisite and essential to
any man make question whether faith comes ordinarily by the preaching and hearing in England it is a great question whether they euer had faith or no yet because some are so grosse as to deny this we will therefore proue the contrarie by this Argument Ne puero gladium That preaching and hearing which makes them which were altogether carnal so not capable of a church estate to become saints so fit for a church-estate That preaching must needs beget men to the faith But the preaching and hearing in England made them that were unfit and carnall to become saints and so fit members to the true Church which were not so before Therefore the preaching in England and hearing the same doth beget men to the faith That the preaching and hearing in England hath done this Witnesse the Church of Leyden and of Amstelredam I cannot say of this mans Logick as Aristotle a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did of Theodorus his making of Epethites it is his whole art But rather if that be true the Bird b E cantu dignoscitur avis is knowen by her singing then the Publisher is very unskilfull this way Touching his Sillogisme the same is many waves peccant as I shall make it obvious and cleare in the particulars following 1. To reason from the effect of things is unsound and unconcludeable by the Scriptures This is as if a man would say the Midwives c Exo. 1 9 which lyed unto Pharaoh did mvch good to the Israelites Therefore they did well to Lie It hath been saith Cartwright d First repl against D. Whitg p. 79. the manner alwayes of wise and learned men to esteeme of things by the causes and not by the event And that especially in matters of Religion D. Twist e The Doctrine of the Synod of Dort Arles reduced to practice p. 5. 6. in his reply to the Arminians cals it a strange course because a thing is usefull therefore it is to be concluded that it is true And a litle after they that doe such things manifest hereby saith he that their case is desperate and that they have very litle or no ground for their opinion out of the Word of God And this no doubt is most true touching the Pist For were he able to prove the hearing in question lawfull he would not have published as here he doth so vaine a reason Or rather indeed that which hath no weaght of reason in it Tertullian f De praescript advers haerec Epiphanius g Haer. 38 p. 124. Irenaeus h L. 1. c. 16. and 17. and other Ancients make mention of a Sect named Cains which held that ludas did well to betray Christ The reason they render for it is the same which the Pist here brings for the hearing of false Ministers To wit the good effect * QuoniaÌ„ per ipsum parata est nobis crucis salus per hoc propositum supernoruÌ„ revelatio that followed upon it Thus he gratifies vile Hereticks in raking up their old ground to build his new errour upon 2. Seeing this practice of hearing is condemned by the Scriptures should it be granted the which I deny that ordinarilie their preaching begits men to the faith yet his proposition is unsound For no evill may be done that good may come of it k Rom. 2 8 No not the least to procure he greatest good that is a true saying E malis nullum May not I lend God a lie l Iob. 3 7 for his glorie Much lesse doe any other evill for any other whatsover As well the meanes saith one m D. Slater Expos on Rom. 3 v. 8 pag. 308. as the meaning must be good i Hos 4. 15 Mat. 7 Rev. 18 4 Son 1 7. So writes Pareus n In Rom. 3. v. 8 ad bonum finem bona legittima requirantur media Timpler o Exerc. Philos Sect. de act hâ—maÌ„ nat quest Lavater p CoÌ„ment Iosh c. 2 hom 8 fol. 10. Vnto a good end lawfull and good wayes and meanes are required The reason is q D. Willet Comment in Rom. 3 Quest 12 p. 154. Par no sinne is eligible for whatsoever is eligible and to be made chose off is good but sinne is no wayes good for then it should not be sinne Moreover according to this mans Argument men may commit Schismes and Heresies for good comes of them namelie a clearer Illustration of Orthodoxall verity So they may lie steale committ adultery c. because of some following good effects Which is the glorie of Gods wisedome in his mercie towards the elect and justice upon the reprobates But this I know he likes not Notwithstanding his and it pedes ad caput for the matter of reasoning is all one For thus he disputeth If the effects of false Ministers prove good Then may they lawfully be heard But the first is true Therefore the second But stay the consequence followes not For non mox bonum est ex quo bonum sequitur sayth a judicious Writer r Comment in 1 Cor. 11. We may not straight way say the thing is good because good followed of it As for the good effect it is not perse or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But ex accidente as Logicians s Dionis Areopag c. 4 de divin nom Fr. Pieolomen in Doct. Ethica Rod. Goclen cont Philos Theol. par 3 p. 85 Keckerm Syst log l. 1 c. 13. phrase it By an accident It cometh sayth Lyran t In Rom. 6 ver 1 ex bonitate Dei qui bona elicit ex malis The like sayth Theodoret. v Lib. de providenc fol. 85. Deus malis ad bonum aliquod utitur So Paez x Cantic Moys Text. 4. AnÌ„ot 1 p. 67. peccata a Deo ordinantur in bonum To conclude though in evils of punishment we may chuse a lesser to shunne a greater Yet in evils of fault election hath no place For Divines y Dispute against Eng. Popish Ceremon part 2 ch 1 pag. 10 hold absolutely that no thing which is evill in the use of it may be done either for prevention of evill or for any good whatsoever inter duo vel plura mala culpae sayth Alsted z Theol Cas cap 12 p 210 nullum est eligendum And Pareus a In Rom 3 8. the like Nec ullum admittendum malum ut even iat aliquod bonum sive per se sive per accidens 3. The maine drift and scope of his reason is not onlie untrue But indeed very daungerous to say no worse of it as rending to restraine people from hearing the true Ministers of Christ And that this is so I prove it thus That preaching which hath not or doth not ordinarily begit men to the Faith of Christ may not lawfully be heard But the preaching of many true Ministers in their Congregations neither hath nor doth ordinarily begit men to
have proved before that howsoever a man stand not in spirituall and politicall church communion with a Church and ministery thereof yet he is there a participant or communicant in and with the ordinances as with the doctrines taught so with the state of the Teacher For the better clearing of this Let vs in few words consider a Church state Ministery and administrations make vp as I may so say the body of divine worship Now it is a knowne Maxime quidquid est pars partis est etiam pars tâ—tius The hand is a part of the body the finger a part of the hand he therefore that holds either my hand or finger toucheth my body So in iust proportion hee that toucheth any part or member of the spiritual politicall body hee toucheth the body or state bee the same true or false if true his communion is lawfull if false he toucheth an uncheane thing and â—oâ— sinneth against that precept in 1. Cor. 6. 17. To end this Section howsoever hearing of the word of God lies in common for all for the good of all Yet hath God appointed away and order vnto all how to heare it Food and rayment lies in common to all for the good of all What of this shall wee hence conclude it is noe matter by what meanes or course men have it indeed so he reasoneth or else Oleum et operam perdidit he speaketh neither for himselfe nor against vs. Mr. Baines f Diocesen triall p. 7. writes well no people can worship God in repairing to any Church or ministery without warrant of his word Let the reader note it SECT 3. THe Treatiser for this opposities hath framed 16 objections the which as himselfe saith * Pag. 13. he hath either heard from others or could conceiue of himselfe ooulerably against the practice by him propounded The first is laid downe thus No man may submit his conscience to be wrought vpon Object 1. by an unlawfull and antichristian ministery neither hath God promised or doth afford †These vvords in a different letter are the Treat ovvne and vve disclaime them any blessing upon it neither can any have the sanctified vse thereof His answere hereto is this The office of the ministery workes not vpon the conscience of the hearer properly the office gives onely power and charge to the Teacher to teach in such aplace it resides in the person of the officer alone the communion lawful or unlawfull which any hath with it is in regard of the lawfull or unlawfull relation and vnion foregoing between the persons and not in any working of the office vpon the conscience of any God may and doth blesse the truths taught fauls ministers Answ It was Heiroms k Paulum quotiescunque lego videor mihi non verba audire sed tonitrua cont Iovinian censure of Pauls Epistles that when hee read them He thought he heard not words but Thunder This cannot be well applied to his reply here For should I speake my conscience it is a meere Phrasiologie words without weight of reason 1. He denies our first assertion But how cleares he it to the contrarie As is his ground so are his proofes Only bare saying Sit pro ratione voluntas That the Office of the Minister workes upon the Hearers conscience It is certaine and not to be denyed without losse of credit both to the person and cause of the denyer in the eye of all reasonable men l Exo. 28. For this is evident by the Scriptures whether we respect an Office true or false Ephes 4 11. 2 Thes 2 Rev. 9. Againe if it be considered what we meane by the Office working upon the conscience Common reason will prove it too Our meaning is that the state or povver by which he administers is herein submitted too As Magistrates are obeyed in civill Justice because of their calling and were it not for it men could not for conscience sake receive their administrations So the conscience of a Hearer is brought in subjection to the ordinance of Hearing even for the Office sake of him that teacheth We intend here Ministeriall teaching It is most certaine saith one m Mr. Peitry of the Ministery of the Church of England Pag. 37. 38. Satan ruleth in the consciences of men not only by false doctrine but also by his false power and ordinances His Kingdome of darknes not only consisteth in the lies and false doctrine and worship which he hath coyned but also in the false and Antichristian Ordinances which he hath invented for the ruling of his Idolatrous denne And therefore the Children and Saints of God ought to avoyd both the one and the other So hee 2. It is not true that the Office only gives power and charge to the Teacher to teach in such or such a Church-state For properly it respects not that at all but rather the Office of the person gives him power to preach pray administer the Sacraments c. according to their Order and Canons He that that hath not a Church-state to preach in yet beeing ordained Preist hath power by his Office to doe the worke of a Preist any where And so much the Treat n Manumis to a Manuduct p. 70. in another Booke acknowledgeth The Office is the very state and function conferred upon a man by his calling from which Office ariseth immediate * Note this power and charge to administer and to performe the works of that Office In the performance of which workes the Office is executed power used And whereas he mentioneth here the truths they teach J grant these are from God but the Office which gives them power and charge to speake them is from Antichrist And a speciall Character or Marke as the Learned o Mr. Symon on the Rev. pag. 120. write of the Beast Thus said Iohn Chaydon p Acts and Monuments Edict 5. pag. 588. a Martyr of Christ The Bishops license to preach the Word of God is the true Character of the Beast that is of Antichrist The like Mr. Bale q On Revel chap. 14. 9. and others 3. Whereas he saith the false Office resides in the person of the Officer alone Here I might take that exception of the Law r In testimon dig de testibus against him They who wander against the credis of their owne Testimonies are not to be heard Against this we have his owne testimony For thus he saith s Manumiss to a manuduct pag. 5. those that pertake in the worke of preaching of one sent by the Bishops doe pertake in what lyeth in them in the authority of the sender And this is so indeed The sinfull Office of the Teacher becomes his sinne who practiseth will-worship with him For hereby hee enwraps himselfe into the guilt of the Office And this thing by another is so clearely proved t Treatise of the Ministery of the church of EnglaÌ„d by Fran Iohnson Pag. 5 6 7
necessitated to approue of all the acts conclusions they make but may dislike them if I see they are not as they ought to be The Corinthians for ought I can see resorted unto the Feasts of idols upon the same ground that the Treat layes downe for hearing They went not of superstition for they were to well instructed and Paul in their person brings forth an excuse for them * 1. Cor. â— 4. We know that an idol is nothing As if they should say we regard not what they have devised their publicke false-state concernes us not for we have left it We are in no Church-communion with their Officers our meaning is not to worship as they doe they intend one thing we another But did this satisfie the Apostle Not in the least For he knew their private differing intention was but a strong fruit of the flesh monstrous presumpt on and a meere delusion For their eating was not to be looked upon and judged after their secret meaning But according to that publicke state where they were And here I desire the Reader to note the difference betweene Paul and the Treat Paul makes the sinne of the Corinthians to be their resorting to an idol-state Not simply their eating for thaâ— they might have done else-where but because it was in by or from an institution of the Devil The Treat layes us downe a contrarie Doctrine and tels us a false Church-state is nothing And Antichristian Officer nothing And that we may lawfully worship God in the one and heare his Word preached by the other provided we be not in Church-communion with the Officer c. Truely the difference here is great For the Treat cleares the Corinthians of the thing for which the Apostle condemnes them But I will not presse this further now Only what Augustine * said of the learned Fathers I may speake of the Treatis in stead of him or rather above him Paul the Apostle commeth to my mind to him I runne to him I appeale from all sorts of writers that thinke otherwise For conclusion if the false state of a Church and Ministerie defile only the members thereof And as for other present worshippers they are blameles Jf this I say be a true saying theÌ„ hath he vainely confind himselfe to the Ministerie of the Church of England For his Position will serve as well to justifie hearing among Papists Arrians Sorcinians Iewes Turkes c. Yea further and to be present at any service or worship they doe For what should hinder but according to this ground a man may lawfully goe to the Temples of the Saracens and he are their Preists considering they doe deliver many materiall truths As that God is true and righteous in all his wayes a â— In Alcho ran Azoara 1. The Creator of all things b The giver of every good gyft c Azoar 14. Ad that Iesus Christ is the Sonne of Mary d Azoar 11. the Messenger of God and a true Prophet e Azoar 7. If any object but they utter many lies and blasphemies I answer the hearing simply of errours corrupts not the Hearer For so he consents not to them in judgement not practice but testifieth against them he delivers his owne soule SECT 5. THE Treatiser layes downe our next OBJECTION thus By this then it seemes a man may be present at any act of Idolatrie and doe as others doe that practice Idolatry yet not approue of it And so the three Nobles in Danial needed not to have put themselves upon such pikes of daunger as they did for not falling downe as others did in the place To this he answereth Treat 1. In preaching of the truths of the Gospell no idolatrous act is performed Answ I perceive it is an easie thing to conquest if begging may procure one that But wee are no such children as to give the cause so away 1. Therefore J say in preaching of the truths of the Gospell viz by a false Minister about which is our dispute an idolatrous act is performed And that the Reader may understand this thing the better He is to consider that divine worship is not to be determined by a particular thing howbeit in it selfe good but as all the essentiall parts belonging thereto whether they are persons or things are kept and observed The Church of Rome in Baptisme useth water and in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper gives bread and otherwhile wine too doth this cleare their administrations of idolatry So runns the Treat reasoning But wee cannot receive it for the Lord never spake so by him J thinke all men doe thinke that Vzziah a 2 Chro. 26. 16. committed an idolatrous act when he invaded the Priests Office But what made it so Tooke he unlawfull incense No. Used he strange fire No. Offered he prohibited sacrifice or upon a wrong Altar No. Where then lay the fault The Scripture tels us it pertained not to him to burne incense unto the Lord but to the Sonnes of Aaron b Ver. 18. To apply this if his act were idolatrous because he wanted a calling howbeit observed many truths of the Law By the same reason the Church-acts of Antichristian Ministers are idolatrous Yea as for the truths which they preach this clears their acts no more from idolatry then Vzziahs true incense and Altar quitted him from transgression It is truely said of one c Lavaret in Josh 22. Hom 61. pag 7. We ought not to conclude of an action that it is good because it hath in it some thing which in it selfe is so And this is true as in divine things so in humane too For it is a knowne Tenent of Philosophers d Omne totum suis partibus ordinatur mensuretur determinatur the vvhole is composed measured and determined of all the parts Vnto the constitution of the whole according to Aristotlec is required 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. As Iob f Iob. 24.4 saith vvho can bring a cleane thing out of an uncleane Not one The false Office by our Oppositâ—es is acknowledged to be uncleane Now to deny that their Ministeriall acts are not from thence is against common sence And this further may be amplyfied by that passage in the Prophet g Hag. 2. 12 13. See Iunius on the place where it is shewed that holy things are polluted by touching things uncleane e Arist 12. Met. 3 Lib. de Poet. cap. 7. 3. If in preaching the truth according to the point in question no idolatrous act is performed Then it will follow that a man may remaine a Minister of a false Church all his life time Provided he only teach * Note that such whom they call Lecturers in some places only preach and doe nothing else As I my selfe for some yeares stood soÌ„ the truths of the Gospell Our reason is for in this if he doe no idolatrous act then he sinneth not so Consequently no just cause of
had committed idolatry in falling downe before the idolâ— yea howsoever they had not intended to honour it because it was the knowne and publick intent of the setting up of it to be adored and the Kings commaundement was that it should be so This being so then it followes that seing false churches and false ministers are real idols set up by earthly Princes their knowne intent by publick proclimation is that all people within their dominions should come to them bow before them and by outward gestures approue of them This I say being so the conclusion is certo certius not lyable to exception that whosoever comes and bowes before those idols cannot eâ—cape the iust blame of idolatry howsoever in himselfe hee intendeth no such thing And here let it bee observed what wee even now said if a man performe an action in a state and of publick nature he is to be considered in respect of himselfe as is that state and according to the publick ordinances For If the state bee false and the officer unlawfull it is familisme for him to say I knowe this state is set up against the Lord Iesus Christ and every commer here to worship according to the constitution is an idolater but I will have in my selfe asecret meaning from the rest and in this regard I cannot be accounted an approver of the state or that I doe any worship here as the same is publickly established and intended it should be don The learned condenme this and stile it grosse dissimulation and a mocking of God So Scarpius o Symphom proph pag. 238. Caelius p A little Treat to all faithfull Christ Hemingius q In Ephe. c. 5. Rivetus r In Psa 16 p. 53 54. Zanchy s in Comt 3 p. 534 M r. Philpot t Act. mon. pag 2002 yea the thing is so vile as a Papist u Called the love of the â—oule hath writen against it a whole treatise The authors of Pirth assembly write thus Wheresoever the publick intent of a Kirk is to worship the sacrament every private man following that intent is formallie an idolater if his private intent be diverse from the publick yet he is still materially interpretative an idolater What they say wee say and heare lies the difference betweene our opposites and us Wee both grant the publick intent of a false Church is to have their State Worship and Governement approved x Pag. 49 But here is the ods they say seing their private intention is diverse from the publick they are not trespassers with the publick though in publick they doe the same action We on the contrary affirme seeing the publick intent of the Church is to honour the idol every private man following that intent is formably an idolater if his private intent be diverse from the publick yet he is still materially and interpretatiue an idolater Ismenias as the same authors note stoping downe before the king of Persia Ibid. to take up a ring which hee of purpose let fall was not excused because this stoping in common vse was the adoring of the Kings of Persia Let the godly reader consider of it take advise and speake his mind 2. J deny that any man hath iust cause to heare in the way wee speake of for his edefication For what he saith here he produceth neither scripture nor reason nor any authority but his own as if his ipse dixit like the popes sentence were penitus definitiua absolate difinitiue and to be rested in but to vse his owne wordes a Iustificat separat pag. 47. 48. seing he soevveth himselfe barren of Divine authority I will proofe what I doe deny by these reasons 1 Whatsoever Christ hath thought fitt to teach his Church the instruments helps whereby that hath hee fully set downe in his word b 2 Timot. 3 16 17. Act. 20. 27. Ioh. 20. 30. 31. 2 Pet. 1. 3. soe that to acknowledge any other meanes of edefication then such as he hath appointed is to receiue another Teacher into the Church besides him and to confesse some in perfection in those meanes which he hath ordained for our edefication this argument is brought against the vaine traditions of Rome and England by Gualter c â—n Habac fol. 270. Lavater d in 1. Chron. 10. 11. Vâ—sinus e Catech. par 3. p. 758. 760. Polanus f Partit Theol. pag. 83 191 Ames g 〈…〉 the authors of the Abrigement h 〈…〉 and it holds every way as firme and good in our dispute P. Martyr speakes * 〈…〉 home to this point For as much as God is most wise he needs not our devise for instruments to stirr up faith in vs which thing no tradesmaÌ„ in this kind would indure but would chuse to himselfe at his owne pleasure whaâ— hee should thinke most fit c. How bold are these 〈◊〉 who wâ—ll Pâ—aescribe to God after What manner and by 〈…〉 shall edefie â—s Soe hee 2 Seeing our discourse 〈…〉 edefication which Christ the onely Teacher of his Church hath appointed then is it is set downe by the appostle in Ephes 4. 11. 12. 13. the reason is because Paul there mentioneth all ministeriall meanes for the perfect and complet building of the Church from the first to the last soe write Fenner i Sacr. Theol. c. 7 p. 119. Laiton k Syons p. 10. Piscator l Aphorism loc 20. Cartwright m Repl. 1. to Whitg p. 85. Beza n in Ephes 4 10. Calvin o instit l 4 c. 1. Sect. 5 Polanus p Syntag. l. 10 11. and others But â— thinke our Opposites wil not say that Paul there intendeth this Hearing as a meanes of our edification Jf they should l the Treat would be against them for hee confesseth it is not any perticular ordinance left vs by Christ Ergo. c. 3. As Augustine saith q Mori fame quaÌ„ idolothytis vesci de bono congug c. 16. it is better to dy with famen then to eate with Idolothites Daniell chose rather to live upon pulse then to be fed with the most delicate meats from the kings table seing they were such meat as he ought not to eat For he knew as one r Osiand in Dan. 1. p. 367. writes on the place Not by the power of the meate but by Gods divine blessing is the body preserved To apply this seeing the Hearing stood for p Pag. 37. is a spirituall eating with idolaters and men cannot receive the food without pollution Our best course is to coÌ„tent our selvs with what meanes of edefication we find in Gods way be it much or little I say not dispise ‡ Zach. 4. 10. the day of small things and the rather considering that it is not the meanes but Gods blessing on the meanes that edefieth vs. 4 VVhosoever takes to himselfe a practice which is not grounded on Gods word and
Cloak for it Hic labor hoc opus est But it may be we shall heare hereafter of some other that will say something to it In the meane time we will wait for it and proceed to the rest SECT 15. THE 15. Objection we have thus framed The places called Temples and Churches having been built for idolatry should be abolished And therefore are not to bee frequented specially beeing accounted and made holy place Deu. 12. 1. Ans What is said of some mens Sermons I may say of the Treat answer here the matter had been much better if he had named no Text For he toucheth not the Objection at all which is concerning Antichristian Temples in the unlawful use of them but of the Lawfull Worship of God in those places from whence the idols and idolatries are removed Now howsoever J purpose not to speake of those materiall places in regard our exception lies rather against their false Constitution not of stones but of people yet this I doe affirme that as the idol-Temple in the use of Antichrists idolatrous worship is a part of his false worship a Pageâ— Arrow ag separat pag. 173. So they doe pollute in the use of such worships as are practised in them And that they should be destroyed having been corrupted with idolatrie there are many Examples for it b Guagninus de Lituania Casstod lib. 3. hist. Tripart l. 9. Sozom l. 5. Theodorit l. 3. l. 5 c. 20. 37. Euseb de vit Const lib. 5. c. 53 Socrat. l. 1 c. 14. August de Civ Dei l. 18. c. 54. Cranz Saxon. c. 9. 12. Helmoldus in Sclaevorum Chron. 11. Cent. l. 2. c. 9. Cramer l. 15. But to let these things passe if we may have leave to put down our owne argument it shal be thus If the false Churches of whom we dispute c They hold as we doe that the Church Ministerie Worship and Government of the Church of England is Antichristian and false so that our difference is not whether these things are so but beeing granted on both sides they are so The question is whether we may Lawfully heare there or no. be that spirituall Babilon mentioned in Revel 18. 4. Then it is not Lawfull for Gods people to goe unto them to performe any spirituall or Religious action and so consequently not to heare there But the first is true Ergo the later is true also The Proposition needs no proofe because our Opposites and we herein are of opinion alike The Assumption is manifest by these reason 1. The words in the Text prove it plainely Come out of her my people That is remove your selves from all false Assemblies covenant together to walke in all the wayes of God serve the Lord among your selves in â—pirit and truth and returne not from whence you are come But repent rather that ye have suffered your consciences to be wrought upon by any unlawfull Offices And thus doe they Learned interpret the place namely of such a comming out as that we may not be bodily present at any of their worship d Artopaeus in Rev. 18. p. 198. Place Illyric in Rev. 18 4. Ne quidem spectatum saith Pareâ—s e Comment in Hos 4. pag. 506. Tom. 1. no not so much as to behold it Bullinger f In Apocal cap. 18. Concio 77. p. 241. in his Exposition saith we must flie from their Temples and not enter afterwards into them to doe any spirituall worship So Rupertus Theophanes Lambertus Winckelmanus Wirth Camerarius Ribera Leoninus Conradus Brocardus Capella others 2. Seeing a devised Constitution is an idol all that comes from it is taunted ‡ 2 Cor 6. 1. Ioh. 5. 21 Zach. 11. 17. with the idolatrie of that Constitution and therefore not to be touched because they are uncleane things A false Church-state is rightly likened g Botsac Promp Allegor c. 21. de Minisi to the Leprosie spread in the wals of the houses of the Lepers because of the pollution * It is like that filthy Bird which carries this motto contactu omnia â—oedat which it causeth to persons and things Take for instance a city or towne If the civill state or corporation which they have bee usurped devised or derived from a false power all their publick administrations are unlawfull and every one partaking thereof offendeth So all administrations done in a false Church whether prayer preaching Sacraments Censures c. are uncleane actions and doe defile every receiver I say because of the idol-state which is devised out of mans braine and used as a meanes to serve God in it and by it As poyson is caried from the fountaine to the Cesterne and from the root to the branches So from a false Constitution as from a poysened fountaine and roote a spirituall poyson is carried and conveyed into every one of her administrations Nature teacheth this where generation is betwixt 〈◊〉 of one kind the like doth ever bring forth the like Neither can a Sheepe bring sorth a Wolfe nor a Wolfe a Sheepe but one nature is ever common to the breeders and to the brood This holds true in the cause of a spirituall Harlot as she is a viperous body so she begitts a brood of vipers I say all the ordinances done after the invention and will of Antichrist can no other wise be judged â—hen a brood common to the nature of the breeders that is the Devill and the Whore of Rome the Father Mother that begat them 3. Because the Lord hath not promised to them his presence and acceptance what the Lord may accept or will we dispute not Only this I say whoseoever heares in a false Church cannot by any promise that he hath in the Word of God exspect Gods blessing on that which he doth The reason is because a true constitution of a Church that is where men are gathered together according to the Gospell of Christ is that only Lawfull Religious societie or Communlon of Saints wherein God wil be honoured whereby he wil be served and whereto he hath promised his presence and acceptance So then howsoever we are not bound unto hearing in a true Church necessitate medij as if Gods grace were tyed to the meanes this way Yet as they say in Schooles necessitate praecepti if we consider Gods Commaundement so wee are bound to Church hearing only in a true Church and in no other Church can we exspect Gods presence promise and acceptance 4. Lots flying from Sodome and Israels departure out of Egypt and Babilon shadowed out h Bulling in Apocal. 18. Con. 78. Ciril in Esa c. 48. l. 5. Tom. Zwinplius Comment in ler. c. 51. Chytraeus in Apoc. c. 18. our comming out from Antichristian Assemblies Now they came off wholie and fullie And were not one while out and another while in againe But made an intyre and constant separation That this may accord with the thing tipified we must come quite away from Sodome