and the People Which of the Two shall Determine upon That Congruity and Convenience Your Limited Toleration too stands or falls upon the Same Bottem with Your Comprehension That is to say Who shall Iudge of the Sound Belief and Good Life of the Pretendents to That Indulgence As to your Connivence You say Nothing of it your self and I shall Reflect as little upon it Let me only Observe Upon the Whole that if you had really a Mind to set Us right Methinks You should not Trifle Us with these Ambiguities and Amusements But rather endeavour by some Pertinent Intelligible and Practicable Proposition to bring Us to a better Understanding Say What Injunctions You would have abated Name the Parties You would Recommend for their Importance of Interests Congruity of Principles Sound Faith and Good Life Teach us how to know these Qualities Where to look for Them and Who shall Iudge of Them Let it be made out That the Present Sollicitors for Tender Consciences are duly Authorized and Commission'd to Act as the Trustees of the Respective Parties Do This and Matters may be brought yet to a Comfortable Issue But so long as You place the Conditions of your Indulgence out of the Reach of Ordinary Proof and indeed of Humane Knowledg Every Man that is Excluded shall dispute his Title to the Comprehension without any Possibility of being Confuted To the Scandal of Religion and to the Perpetual Trouble Both of King and People N. C. To set forth the Propounded Latitude in the Particular Limits thereof were Presumptuous both in Reference to Superiors and to the Party Concerned in it C. As if it were not a greater Presumption to Alienate the Affections of the People from their Superiors by Reflectings upon the Iniquity of the Government then by the Tender of some Rational Medium of Accord to Dispose the Hearts of Superiors to a Compliance with the Prayers and Necessities of the People But there is more in these Generalities and Râ—…serves then the Multitude are well aware of and I am afraid it will be as hard a matter to bring you to an Agreement about the Pâ—…rticular Parties to be Tolâ—…rated as about the Model it self SECT XI The Non-Conformists demand a Toleration for No Body knows WHOM or WHAT C. THe Non-Conformists are the Party that desire a Toleration Pray let me ask ye What are their Opinions What are their Names For I presume you will not expect a Toleration for No Body knows What or Whom Are they all of a Mind If They were Tolerated Themselves Would They Tolerate One Another Are They come to any Resolution upon Articles Are They agreed upon any Model of Accommodation Do They know What They would be At Or is it in the Wit of Man to Contrive a Common Expedient to Oblige them N. C. There 's no Body says that they are All of a Mind Or that it is pâ—…ssible to please them all Or Reasonable to Endâ—…avour it There are Divers among them whose Principles will never endure any Order either in Church or State But what is the Sober Part the Worse for these Extravagants Those I mean who are ready to Iustifie themselves even according to the Strictness of your own Measures C. If You are for such a Toleration as shall Exclude the Wild and Ungovernable Sects of Dissenters How comes it that in Your Writings and Argumentations You still plead the General Cause of Non-Conformists without any Exception or Distinction N. C. You are not to fasten a Charge of this Quality upon us that have already submitted Our selves Not only to the Moderation of a Limited Indulgence but to your own Conditions also under that very Limitation C. This You have done I must confess in General Terms But still I say as to Particulars Your Discourses are of such a Frame and Biass as to give Credit and Encouragement to Every Sect of the Whole Party N. C. I am of a Perswasion but not of a Party and whatsoever my Perswasion be it is Moderate Catholick and Pacifick C. And so is every Man's if his own Word may be taken for his own Perswasion But why aâ—…e ye so Nicâ—… and Cautious in the owning of a Particular Way and Profession and yet so Frank and Open in a Clamor for the Whole Party You Complain that you are persecuted and yet Obstruct the Means of your own Relief Some Ye say are to be Indulged Others Not. How shall Authority Distinguish of Which Number You your selves are so long as You remain under this Concealment Are You for the Presbyterians N. C. I am not ashamed of their Company that are Commonly called by That Name Yet I have no Pleâ—…sure in such Nâ—…mes of Distinction Neither my Design nor my Principles engage me to maintein the Presbyterial Government C. Are You Inâ—…endent then N. C. Neither But yet I am as I told you for Tolerating Thâ—…se of Sound Faith and Good Life That have taken up sâ—…me Principles of Church-Government lâ—…ss Congruous to National Settlement C. What Do you think of the Anabaptists Brownists Quakers c N C. Why truly So it is That Prudent and Pious Men may be of Exceeding Narrow Principles about Church-Order and Fellowship Toward Whom Christian Charity pleadeth for Indulgence and We hope Political Prudence doth not gainsay it C. So that you are FOR All Parties but not OF Any Which Genâ—…rality gives to Understand that your Business is rather a Confederacy then a Scruple N. C. Make That Good if you can SECT XII The Conjunct Importunity of the Non-Conformists for a Toleration is not grounded Upon Matter of CONSCIENCE N. C. YOu are the first Person certainly that ever undertook to make Proof of a Conscience C. And yet Our Saviour tells Us in This very Case of Hypocrisie that the Tree may be known by its Fruits But however the best way of Proving a Thing Feasible is the Doing of it The Non-Conformists refuse Communion with the Church What is it They boggle at N. C. They do esteem the Ceremonies an Excess in the Worship of God Pag. 31. And Dissent from the Present Establishment of Religion only in things relating to Outward Order and Worship Pa. 12 About the Choice of some Peculiar Ways of Worship Pa. 12. But as to the English Reformation Established by Law They heartily Embrace it and Assent to the Doctrine of Faith conteined in the Articles of the Church of England Pa. 22. They have no New Faith to Declare No New Doctrine to Teach No Private Opinions to Divulge No Point or Truth to Profess which hath not been Declared Taught Divulged and Esteemâ—…d as the Common Doctrine of the Church of England ever since the Reformation Pa. 11. They come up to a Full Agreement in all Material Things with Them from Whom they Dissent Pa. 30. C. If They Agree in all Material Things it follows that they Divide about Matters Inconsiderable and Break the Order Peace
of Common Prayer of the Church of England Without any Scandal either Given or Taken Nay so far are they from disowning us that the French Divines hold them for Schismatiques and Punishable that refuse Communion with us Bucer thanks God with all his Soul to see the English Ceremonies so pure N. C. And have they I beseech you their Set Forms Their Peremptory Impositions Their Declarations and Subscriptions C. Yes yes All This and more For Set Forms methinks you should rather tell me any one Reformed Church that wants a Set Form then put me to the Trouble of Naming all that have Calvin and Beza are Positive for them Geneva much more severe for the Observance of them then we are here Inconformity There is cause of Banishment for a Year And the Gallican Church makes it a matter of Excommunication In Geneva Calvin Establish'd his Discipline by an OATH both upon People and Pastors to observe That Form for ever after The Ministers take an Oath of Canonical Obedience in Hungary And the French Divines are not admitted without Subscription There 's no Imposing upon Publique Laws with Private Scruples No Bandying allow'd betwixt Conscience and Authority He that will not submit to the Orders of a Community Away with him says Calvin It is not enough to take cheque at the Constitutions of the Church under colour of a weak Conscience or so pretended but you must be fully satisfied that the Constitution is Wicked IN IT SELF Nay Calvin carries it further Suppose it really ministers Matter of Offence says he That will not serve to vacate the Obligation unless it be also found to be Simply and IN IT SELF Repugnant to the Word of God Quia tamen Verbo Dei PERSE non Repugnat Concedi potest To provide against Evil Consequences is the Magistrates Duty not the Subjects N. C. The Worship of God is in it self Pure and Perfect and Decent without having any such Ceremonies affixed thereunto And many Faithful Servants of the Lord knowing his Word to be a Perfect Rule of Faith and Worship have ever been exceeding fearful of Uarying from his Will and of the Danger of Displeasing him by Additions or Detractions in such Duties C. You will hardly find any honest President for this Nicety Calvin would have given it a worse Name Testatum Velim says he me non de Ceremoniis Litigare quae Decoro tantum Ordini Serviant vel etiam Symbola sunt Incitamenta ejus quam Deo deferimus Reverentiae He Declares himself you see not only for Ceremonies of Order and Decency but for Ceremonies of Significancy and Incitement to Reverence and Devotion And in another place Ergone Inquies nihil Ceremoniarum rudioribus dabitur ad juvandam Eorum Imperitiam Id ego non dico omnino enim utile illis esse sentio hoc Genus Adminiculi Will you allow of no Ceremonies then at all you 'l say for the Instruction of the Vulgar You do not hear me say so for I am clearly of opinion that they are of very great use and service to the People Upon the Main The English Non-Conformists as Mr. Durell well observes are a sort of People by themselves and Non-Conformists at Geneva and Francfort as well as at Canterbury or London N. C. But still methinks whatever our Consciences are as to the way of Publick Worship we might yet be Indulged with an Allowance of â—…erving God among our selves Why should a Toleration do worse Here then in Holland C. I might Answer you with another Question Why should a Commonwealth do worse Here then in Holland Or Why should a Standing Army do worse Here then in Holland Beside If you look narrowly into it you will find the Dissenters from the Settlement There to be rather Strangers then Natives English French High-Dutch that flowed in to them upon the General Revolt from the Church of Rome Lutherans and Anabaptists out of Germany Calvinists out of France Separatists and Semiseparatists out of England in the Days of Queen Mary and Independents since all which were entertein'd more out of Regard to Policy then Conscience their Business being at that time to shake off the Yoke of Spain and Change the Government To which End these several Parties contributed effectually by preparing the People for the Alteration Intended and inuring them to New Principles both of Religion and State And yet you are not to understand Theirs to be a Perfect Toleration neither For you see they would not upon any terms allow That Freedom to the Arminians which they did to Others but Conven'd a Synod and Exterminated the Sect. The reason was they had a Jealousie of the Arminians for Barnevelt's sake the Head of that Party You are to take notice also of the great difference betwixt the Interest and Condition of Our Ministers and Theirs Our Clergy have a Freehold in their Benefices for Term of Life and if they be Factiously disposed they may Evade the Law and do a Mischief without making a Forfeiture Whereas Theirs Preach upon Good Behaviour Live upon the States Pay and upon the least Colour of Offence may be turn'd off at pleasure I need not tell you what Havock Peters Bridges Sympson Ward made in Holland But what they did Abroad the same thing they would have done at Home if they had been Tolerated N. C. What do ye think of Poland then C. I think That Story speaks little to your Advantage take it either in Respect of their frequent Seditions or in Regard of their Prodigious and Heretical Opinions And yet they live under the strongest Obligation in Nature to keep them quiet The Tartar and other Powerful Neighbours lying hard upon them which makes their Case to be rather an Agreement against a Common Enemy then among Themselves N. C. Now take all at the worst It is but Athanasius against the World and The World against Athanasius Number and Truth are not always of a Side C. And yet Your Multitudes make up a great part of your Argument This however let me speak for you There has no Industry been wanting to Propagate your Profession In the Year 1619. The Scotch Discipline was presented to the Synod at Dort for their Approbation But they would not meddle with it Anno 1654. Upon the Reprinting at Geneva of A Collection of the several Confessions of Faith received in all the Reformed Churches of Europe under the Title of Corpus Syntagâ—…a Confessionum Fidei c. It was moved that the Thirty Nine Articles of the Church of England might be left out and the Assembly Mens Confession put in the place But the Motion was totally rejected The Thirty nine Articles Inserted and not a Word of the Directory They had no better luck with their Covenant neither then with their Discipline The Ministers and others of the Consistory at Charenton and of other Reformed Churches in France as also the Professours Ministers and Consistory of Geneva
Toleration DISCUSS'D IN TWO DIALOGUES I. Betwixt a Conformist and a Non-Conformist Laying open the Impiety and Danger of a General Liberty II. Betwixt a Presbyterian and an Independent Concluding upon an Impartial Examination of their Respective Practises and Opinions in Favour of the Independent Vaevobis Hypocritae LONDON Printed by E. C. and A. C. for Henry Brome at the Gun in Ludgate-street at the West End of St. Paul's 1670. TO THE READER The CONTENTS SECTION I. UNIVERSAL TOLERATION too Wide and Unlawful Page 3 SECT II. LIMITED TOLERATION too Narrow and Disobliging to the Excluded Party 15 SECT III. No Toleration to be admitted but with the Allowance of the Chief Magistrate 18 SECT IV. The BOUNDS of Toleration And the Error of making Fundamentals and Non Fundamentals to be the Measure of it 23 SECT V. The Common Arguments for TOLERATION Examined 29 SECT VI. TOLERATION undermines the Law and causes Confusion both in Church and State Page 36 SECT VII The Non-Conformist's Plea for Toleration upon REASON OF STATE 43 SECT VIII The Non-Conformist's Plea for Toleration from the MERITS of the Party 52 SECT IX The Non-Conformist's Plea for Toleration from the Innocence and Modesty of their OPINIONS and PRACTISES 56 SECT X. The Non-Conformists demand a Toleration which is neither INTELLIGIBLE in the Whole nor PRACTICABLE so far as it may be Understood 78 SECT XI The Non-Conformists demand a Toleration for No Body knows WHOM or WHAT 84 SECT XII The Conjunct Importunity of the Non-Conformists for a Toleration is not grounded upon Matter of CONSCIENCE 87 SECT XIII The Conjunct Importunity of the Non-Conformists for a Toleration is a Manifest CONFEDERACY 96 SECT XIV The Non-Conformists Joynt-Pretenses FOR A Toleration overthrown by the Evidence of their Joynt-Arguments Professions and Practises AGAINST it 114 SECT XV. The Non-Conformists JOYNT COMPLAINTS of Hard Measure and Persecution confronted with their own JOYNT-PROCEEDINGS 120 SECT XVI The Non-Conformists tell us That Liberty of Conscience is the Common Interest of This Kingdom but REASON and EXPERIENCE tell us the CONTRARY 128 SECT XVII This Kingdom has been still the Worse for Indulging the Non-Conformists and the Party never the Better Which evinces that UNIFORMITY is the True Interest of This Government and Not Toleration 148 SECT XVIII The Party of Scrupulous and Conscientious Non-Conformists is neither NUMEROUS nor DANGEROUS Pag. 167 SECT XIX The Non-Conformists Appeal from the Government and Discipline of the Church of England to the Judgment and Practise of the Reformed Churches BEYOND THE SEAS Examined and Submitted to Censure 172 SECT XX. The Non-Confotmists Exceptions to Our Publique Way of Worship found Guilty of Great IMPIETY and ERROR 194 SECT XXI Whatsoever God hath left INDIFFERENT is the Subject of HUMANE POWER 217 SECT XXII No End of Controversie without a FINAL and UNACCOMPTABLE JUDGE from whose Sentence there shall be no Appeal 226 SECT XXIII The Three Great Judges of Mankind are GOD MAGISTRATES and CONSCIENCE 238 SECT XXIV The Church of England charges the Non-Conformists with SCHISM and the Non-Conformists charge those of the Church with SCANDAL The Matter is taken into Debate Page 256 Toleration Discuss'd betwixt a Presbyterian and an Independent SECT XXV An Enquiry upon a Short and Impartial Survey of the Rise Progress and Issue of the War raised by the Two Houses in 1641. Whether were more Criminal The PRESBYTERIANS or the INDEPENDENTS 271 SECT XXVI What Party soever DEMANDS a Toleration and yet Mainteins that it is Destructive both of Church and State to GRANT one Is an ENEMY to BOTH 292 SECT XXVII In Case of a Toleration or Indulgence to be Granted Whether has the fairer Preten se to it The CLASSICAL Way of the PRESBYTERIANS or the CONGREGATIONAL Way of the INDEPENDENTS in Respect of their Form of Government Page 298 SECT XXVIII Whether may be better Tolerated in This Kingdom The Presbyterians or the Independents in Respect of their PRINCIPLES and Ordinary PROCEEDINGS Debated First With Relation to his Majesties PERSON and AUTHORITY 306 SECT XXIX The Question of Toleration betwixt Presbytery and Independency Debated with regard to the Foundation and Execution of the LAW 318 SECT XXX The Question of Toleration betwixt Presbytery and Independency Debated with a Regard to the Rights Liberties and Advantages of the PEOPLE 327 Toleration Discuss'd By way of Dialogue betwixt a CONFORMIST AND A NON-CONFORMIST Conformist LIberty of Conscience or No Liberty of Conscience is the Question What is Conscience Non-conformist Conscience is Iudicium Hominis de Semetipso prout subjicitur Iudicio Dei The Judgment that a Man makes of Himself and his Actions with reference to the future Judgment of God Or otherwise It is An Ability in the Understanding of Man by a Reflex Act to Judge of Himself in all he does as to his Acceptance or Rejection with God Rutherford makes it to be A Power of the Practical Understanding according to which the Man is obliged and directed to give Judgment of Himself that is Of His State and Condition and of all his Actions Inclinations Thoughts and Words C. If this be Conscience Then Liberty of Conscience is A Liberty of a Man's Iudging of Himself and his Actions with reference to the future Iudgment of God N. C. Right But then he is bound likewise to Practise according to that Judgment and To Worship God according to the Light and Understanding which he hath of What is that Worship which is Acceptable with him in Matter and Manner and not otherwise C. So that your Liberty of Conscience is now come to Liberty of Practise Indeed I could wish that the Advocates for Liberty would be a little more Candid in this business They take wonderful Pains many of Them to prove That Conscience cannot be forc'd It is out of the Reach of Humane Power God never appointed any Iudge of it Shall any Man pretend to make me believe That which I cannot believe And the like Pressing the Argument as if That were the very Pinch of the Case which is just Nothing at all to the Point in Controversie It is obvious to Common Reason that This Suggestion cannot but create very dangerous and unquiet Thoughts in the People For if they be denied Liberty of Conscience in the plain and honest English of it They suffer under the most Barbarous and Ridiculous Persecution that ever yet appear'd upon the face of the Earth But on the other side If their claim be stretch't to Liberty of Practise It seems not only unreasonable but utterly Inconsistent both with Christianity it self and the Publique Peace SECTION I. UNIVERSAL TOLERATION too Wide and Unlawful C. LIberty of Conscience as you have stated it is An Universal Toleration for People to say and do what they please under the Warrant and Pretext of Conscience N. C. That is to say In Matters properly the Subject of Conscience with Reference to the future Judgment of God C. By This Rule Pagans are
Title to it by Eating Flesh on Fasting-days 'T is the same thing as to the Place Command them to Church They will tell you There is no Inherent Holiness in the Walls The Hearts of the Saints are the Temples of the Lord Is not God to be found in a Parlour as well as in a Steeple-house Finally What have they to say for all This But that This is One Man's Judgment That Another's This or That may be indifferent to you but not to me To conclude What One Man urges All may and in All Cases as well as in Any Which has brought us once again to an indeterminable Liberty The last Resort of all the Champions of your Cause if they be followed home Now if you can assign any other Arbitrator of this Matter then the Civil Power do it If you cannot let us proceed N. C. Go forward then SECT IV. Thâ—… BOUNDS of Toleration And the Error of making Fundamentals and Non-Fundamentals to be the Measure of it C. IN the Question of Toleration says a Learned Prelate the Foundation of Faith Good Life and Government is to be secured Wherein is comprised a Provision and Care that we may live as Christians toward God As Members of a Community toward one another and as Loyal Subjects toward our Sovereign If you 'l take This for the Standard of your Toleration we have no more to do but to apply Matters in Controversie to the Rules of Christianity Good Manners and Government and to entertein or reject all Pretensions thereafter as we find them Agreeable or Repugnant to Religion Morality and Society N. C. Uery well stated truly I think C. All the Danger is the falling to pieces again when we come to bring This and That to the Test. For if we differ at last upon the Application of Particular Points and Actions to the General Heads of Faith and Government already laid down and agreed upon We shall yet lose our selves in Uncertainty and Confusion N. C. There will be no fear of That if we tye up our selves to Fundamentals C. What do you mean by Fundamentals N. C. There are Fundamentals of Faith that bind Us as we are Christians And there are Fundamentals of Practice that oblige us as we are Members of a Community From These Fundamentals there lies no Appeal to Conscience In other Matters which we look upon as Non-Fundamental we think it reasonable to Desire a Toleration C. This Distinction has a fair Appearance but there is no trusting to it First it proposes a thing neither Practicable nor Reasonable which is The Uniting of all People under one Common Bond of Fundamentals What possibility is there of attaining such an Agreement among so many Insuperable Diversities of Judgment as reign in Mankind Insomuch that what is a Fundamental Truth to One is a Fundamental Error to Another and Every Man is ready to abide the Faggot for his own Opinion It is also very unreasonable to exact it God Almighty does not require the same Fundamentals from all Men alike But Much from Him to whom Much is given and Little from Him to whom Little And from All according to their differing Degrees and Measures of Grace and Knowledg You will likewise find your self under great Uncertainty about the Stating of your Fundamentals For divers Circumstances of Little or No value in Themselves become Fundamental in respect of their Consequences As for Instance That Christ died for Sinners I presume shall be one Article of your Faith But whether upon Mount Calvary or some other part of the Neighbourhood seems of no great Moment as to the Main of Our Salvation And yet he that denies that Our Saviour suffer'd upon Mount Calvary puts as great an Affront upon the Veracity of the Holy Ghost in the Gospel as He which denies that he suffer'd upon the Cross. N. C. I give it for Granted that from some more is required from others less In proportion to their Differing Gifts and Graces But then there are some Principles so Essential to Christianity and so clear in Themselves as to admit of no Dispute C. Saving That Grand Foundation of Our Faith that Iesus Christ is come in the Flesh and that Whosoever confesses that Iesus Christ is the Son of God God dwelleth in Him and He in God Saving I say That Radical Principle which if we disbelieve we are no longer Christians There is scarce One Point that has not been subjected to a Controversie If you reduce your Fundamentals to This Scantling Your Creed will lie in a very Narrow Compass But your Toleration will be Large Enough if you are at Liberty for the rest Touching the Clearness of them I do not comprehend it For Supernatural Truths hold no Proportion at all with the Ordinary Motions of Humane Reason If They be so clear Tell us What they are Where we shall look for them and How we shall know them when we have found them N C. Where should we look for the Foundation of our Faith but in the New-Testament of Jesus Christ C. But still we do not all read the Bible with the same Spectacles To draw to an Issue Generals conclude nothing so long as we are left at Freedom to wrangle about Particulars and you will find much surer footing upon the Foundations of Establish'd Law then upon the Whimseys of Popular Speculation To my thinking the Doctrine and Discipline of the Church of England as it is settled by Acts of Parliament with other Legal Constitutions for the Peace and Order of the Government are every whit as competent a Provision for the Good of the Publique as your new Fundamentals N. C. The Point is not as you seem to understand it a Competition between Our Fundamentals of Notion and Yours of Law But an Inquiry concerning the Limits of a Iustistable Toleration C. Very Good And you refer us to your Distinction of Fundamentals and Non-Fundamentals as to a Rule how far we are at Liberty and wherein we are Bounded But This will not do the work and I have spent the more words about it because I find This Distinction the Ordinary Retreat of Your Party The Truth of it is there 's not One of a Hundred of you but takes This Question by the wrong Handle You make it a Question of Conscience and Religion What may be Tolerated and what not Whereas the thing falls properly under a Consideration of State In Matters not to be Tolerated as in Articles of Religion The Magistrate is positively bound up In other Cases He may chuse whether he will Tolerate or Restrain That is to say with a perpetual Regard to the Qâ—…iet and Security of the Publique Where Particulars may be relieved without Inconvenience to Communities it is well But otherwise Private Consciences weigh little in the Scale against Political Societies And Toleration is only so far allowable as it complies with the Necessities and Ends of Government N. C. That is to say according to your first
Heedlesness of the Common-Souldier contributed in a High Measure to the General Fate Nay that his Late Majesty was oppress'd even by those that thought they fought for him before they understood what they did But yet let me Commend to your Observation that these relenting Intervals in the Heads of the Army did manifestly Vary according to the Pulse of their Affairs Which evinces that it was a Deliberation upon the matter of Convenience rather then upon a Point of Conscience But thus far however we are agreed That many of the Non-Conformists were engaged Whether upon Ignorance Interest or Faction take your Choice That is to say upon Which of These Three you will found the Merits of your Party We are next to Enquire How far your Principles and Actions will comport with the Duties of Society and the Ends of Government SECT IX The Non-Conformists Plea for Toleration from the Innocence and Modesty of their OPINIONS and PRACTISES C. IN the Question of Government and Obedience there are many Points wherein the Non-Conformists agree Many more wherein they differ and not a few wherein they are altogether Fluctuant and Uncertain We have Nothing to do in this Place with their Disagreements or Uncertainties save only in those Matters wherein they are United by Common Consent And to Determine what Those are will be a New Difficulty Unless you tell Us before-hand What Authorities we may depend upon Your Principles must be Known or they cannot be Examined Wherefore Pray'e Direct us Where we may find them N. C. Why truly in the History of the Reformation for This Controversie has been on foot from the very beginning of it to this Day C. If you speak of the Reformation beyond the Seas I do not find any thing there that comes neer our Purpose Here is first Pretended a Reformation of a Reformation Secondly A Conjunction of Several Parties and Perswasions at utter Enmity One with Another in a Confederacy against the Order of the Government Whereas in the Great Turn of Affairs Abroad I see little more then a Defection from the Church of Rome and People setling themselves in some other way as well as they could Muncer's Party in Germany had I confess some Resemblance of the Tumults here in England that usher'd in the late War both for the Medly and for the Rabble In Scotland indeed there was a Contest for the Reforming of a Reformation and it went high But it was only a Struggle for the Geneva-Discipline Which Humour was brought over to us too and driven on for a while under Q Elizabeth with much Contumacy and Bitterness But our Case in short was never known in the Christian World till the late Troubles and thither it is that we must resort for satisfaction to our present Enquiry Now whether you 'l be tried by the Declarations Votes Orders and Ordinances of that Pretended Parliament that carry'd on the Quarrel Or by the Undeniable Doctrines and Positions of your own Divines and those the very Idols of your Party is left at your Election N. C. As for the Parliament let them answer for themselves We had no hand in their Proceedings And for our Ministers They were but Men and may have their Failings as well as other People If you would know our Principles We are for Worshipping according to the Light of Our Consciences for Obeying God rather then Man and for yielding all due Obedience to the Civil Magistrate C. All This comes to Nothing For you may make that Light what you please and Qualifie that due Obedience as you list What does all this Evasion and Obscurity signifie but that there is somewhat in the bottom more then you are willing to own There are a sort of People that tell us The War raised in 41 in the Name of King and Parliament was Lawful And That the Soveraignty was lodg'd in the Two Houses Nay in the People in Case of Necessity That Kings are but the Peoples Trustees Their Power Fiduciary and the Duty of Subjects only Conditional That Princes may be Depos'd Nay and put to Death in Case of Tyranny And That their Persons may be Resisted but not their Authority That the King is Singulis Major Universis Minor And that the People may Enter into Covenant for the Reformation of Religion without the Consent of the Chief Magistrate nay against his Authority and Propagate Religion by the Sword They make their Appeals from the Literal Construction of Law to the Equitable from the Law Written to the Law of Nature and Necessity A Man might ply You with fresh Instances upon this Subject till to morrow morning But here we 'l stop And pray'e speak your Opinion now of Granting a Toleration to a Party that Professes and Teaches These Principles and Acts accordingly N. C. What is all This to the Non-Conformists Who are already come to an Agreement that In the Question of Toleration The Foundation of Faith Good Life and Government is to be Secured C. Very Good So that what Party soever shall be found Guilty of the Positions aforesaid and of Actions answerable thereunto cannot reasonably pretend to a Toleration from the Innocency of their Opinions and Practises Now to Particulars The POSITIONS of Divers Eminent Non-Conformists I. The War raised by the TWO HOUSES in the Name of King and Parliament 1641. was Lawful I cannot see that I was mistaken in the main Cause Nor dare I repent of it Nor forbear the same if it were to do again in the same State of Things And my Iudgment tells me That if I should do otherwise I should be guilty of Treason Or Disloyalty against the Soveraign Power of the Land Pag. 486. A King abusing his Power to the Overthrow of Religion Laws and Liberties may be Controuled and Opposed This may serve to justifie the Proceedings of this Kingdom against the Late King who in a Hostile way set himself to overthrow Religion Parliaments Laws and Liberties P. 10. The Righteousness of the Parliament's Cause is as clear as the Sun at Noon-day And like the Law of God it self in These Excellent Qualifications of it That It is Holy Just and Good P. 6. II. The Lords and Commons are the Supreme Power Nay the People in Case of Necessity Parliaments may judge of Publique Necessity without the King If deserted by the King and are to be accompted by Virtue of Representation as the Whole Body of the State P. 45. Whensoever a King or other Superior Authority creates an Inferior They Invest it with a Legitimacy of Magistratical Power to Punish Themselves also in Case they prove Evil-doers P. 7. England is a mixt Monarchy and Governed by the Major Part of the Three Estates Assembled in Parliament P. 111. The Houses are not only requisite to the Acting of the Power of making Laws but Co-ordinate with his Majesty in the very Power of Acting P. 42. When as a Part of the Legislative Power resides in
is Their Enemy too because it keeps them in Awe that they dare not Steal It is the same Case with Traytors Felons Vagabonds and all Criminals And so it is with Factions and Associated Parties We might set up This Government or This Church and We T'other say they if it were not for Those Accursed Laws that make it Death to Endeavour such an Alteration This is a True and Naked Accompt of the Peoples Thoughts and Reasonings in the Point of Liberty and Obedience and a sufficient Proof of their INCLINATION not against This or That but against any Establishment It being the main End of Government to secure the Community against the Encroachments and Attempts of Particulars Though to the very great Damage and Ruine many times of Private Persons and Parties If you be satisfied now that the People do not Naturally love Government you need not doubt but they will judge it their INTEREST to Remove it Every Male-Content enterteining himself with hopes of mending his Condition upon the Change But Alas This is not an Undertaking for Single Persons Small Parties or Petty Factions by Themselves apart but some Common Medium must be found out for the Uniting of them All which indeed is amply provided for in the Project of Liberty of Conscience and does not only facilitate the Work by drawing the Disaffected into a Body but it does also Countenance and Encourage it by Authorising the Separation N. C. But to Me it seems on the Contrary that an Indulgence would set the Peoples Minds at Liberty from Fears and Contrivances for the avoidance of Impendent Dangers and encourage them to engage the Utmost of their Endeavours and Abilities in the Businesses of Peace and Security C. As to the Security and Peace of the Publique if enough be not already said you may repair to the History of our late Broils for the rest Where you will also find the Condition of Particulars to have been every jote as Distracted and Unquiet in proportion as That of the Government You are to expect Schisms in Corporations Companies Families as well as in Religious Congregations Divisions as well betwixt Parents and Children Masters and Servants as betwixt Rulers and Subjects Feuds betwixt Man and Wife betwixt Brethren Kinred Friends and all these Differences variously Influenced according to the Benignity or Malignity of their Divided Opinions Nor will it be any wonder upon admittance of This Liberty to have as many Religions in a House as Persons where the Husband draws one way the Wife another and the Rest of the Family have Their ways by Themselves too And This goes on to the utter Extermination of Order Duty and Quiet till they have throughly wearied themselves with Tossing and Tumbling from one Sect or Profession to another And then when they are at their Wits End they commonly take up in the Church of Rome with an Implicite Faith in the Conclusion Now if what I have said may be of force sufficient to prove that Liberty of Conscience is destructive both of Religion and Government and of the Peace of the Kingdom as well Private as Publique I cannot see how it should advance us as is earnestly suggested in the Business of Trade and Plenty N. C. We shall never have a Flourishing Trade without it Because the Pressure in these things falls generally more upon the Trading sort of Men then any in the Nation We may see it in the Great City and in all Corporations It makes many give over Trading and Retire It makes others remove into Holland and other Forreign Parts as it did heretofore from Norwich to the Irrecoverable Prejudice of our Cloathing Trade upon the like Occasion And it certainly prevents all Protestant Strangers to come to Live and Trade among us C. The Pressure you say falls most upon TRADERS I answer that you begin with a Non Constat for the Thing it self does not appear And then you make Traders more Scrupulous then the rest of the Nation who are not Generally understood to be more Conscientious as having divers Temptations in the way of their Employments to strein a Point of Conscience now and then and they are but Men as well as their Neighbours If your Observation be Right We may thank the Nonconforming Ministers who have had the handling of them Your urging that want of Liberty makes many give over Trading and Retire does not agree with their Observation that place their Wonder on the other side that so many Hold considering the Circumstances of a long and Expensive War with the French and Dutch The most Expensive that ever this Kingdom undertook And Two of the most dreadful and destroying Iudgments that ever Almighty God laid upon this Nation i. e. Pestilence and Fire one upon the neck of another You object the Removal of others into Holland as formerly Indeed it is not for the Credit of your Cause to mind us of those that formerly left us Take the Peins to read Bayly's Disswasive Pa. 75. and there you shall see what Work they made in Holland Even such that Peters himself was scandalized at it quitted his Congregation and went to New-England Bridg Sympson and Ward renounc'd their English Ordination and took Ordination again from the People The People after this deposed Mr. Ward and the Schism betwixt Sympson's Church and Bridg his was so fierce that their Ministers were fain to quit their Stations and the Dutch Magistrate forc'd to interpose the Civil Authority to quiet them In New England their Humour and Behaviour not much Better according to the Report of the same Author Pag. 60 61. Of Forty Thousand Souls not a Third Part would be of any Church and such Heresies started as a Man would tremble to Recite If only such as These forsake us the Land has a good Riddance Further If it was to the Prejudice of our Cloathing Trade This Separation Who can help it It was Their Fault to betray the Interest of their Country by teaching the Mystery to Forreigners but no blame at all can be reflected upon the Government for Refusing Toleration to such Lawless and Unruly Libertines Now as to the hindring of Protestant Strangers from coming over to us and Trading with us It is a clear Mistake to imagine the Church of England to be such a Bugbear to those of the Reformation abroad as is pretended Which shall hereafter be made appear It is not the Act of Uniformity that hinders Strangers but the want of an Act of Endenisation which perchance the Wisdom of future Times will find convenient for the Supply and Repair of that Depopulation which is brought upon us by our Colonies But to come to an Issue How was it with Trade when Conscience took the full Swinge It brought on a War and so it must again or a Standing Army to prevent it How many Families were ruin'd on the one side with pure Benevolence to the Cause in Contributions and Enterteinments to the Devourers of Widows
the Effects of a Relaxation which abundantly satisfies me That UNIFORMITY is the true Interest of This Government and not TOLERATION N. C. Uniformity is the Interest of This Kingdom as it is of any other where there is any fair Possibility of Procuring it But the Principles of Dissent have taken such Root in this Land that you may as well think of Depopulating the Nation as of Uniting it upon the Points in Question C. But I am otherwise perswaded and that the Party of Non-Conformists is not so considerable as you make it SECT XVIII The Party of Scrupulous and Conscientious Non-Conformists is neither NUMEROUS nor DANGEROUS C. I Am apt to believe that Party is not so Numerous as you represent it for many Reasons First I take English Mens Consciences and their Neighbours to be much of a Make And I do not find the Subject of Our Controversie to be made Matter of Conscience by any other sort of Christians whatsoever out of his Majesties Dominions N. C. 'T is well we have Good Authority to the Contrary The Preface to the Directory assures us that The Liturgy used in the Church of England hath proved an Offence not only to the Godly at Home but also to the Reformed Churches Abroad And Smectymnuus tells the Parliament Pag. 10. that there is such a vast difference between It and the Liturgies of all other Reformed Churches as that it keeps them at a Distance from us C. We 'l talk of That anon and in the mean time with your good leave pursue what we have now before us Another thing that peswades me the Conscientious number of Dissenters cannot be very great is This. The Law has made an Ample Provision for their Relief Leaving every Houshold with Four more at Liberty to Worship according to their own way So that the Laity has no Pretense of Compleint Especially those that plead for the Ordination of their own Ministers and maintein that Seven Persons make a Full Ministerial and Completely Organiz'd Church A Man might make an Exception to your Accompt too upon the score of Old Reckonings for you have ever had the faculty of Multiplication Your Thousands at Hampton-Court came to a matter of Nine and Forty And we remember very well your old way of Personating Petitions from Multitudes of the Godly and Well-affected in both City and Country when effectually the poor Innocent Papers never Travell'd farther then from the Close Committee to the Lobby N. C. If you will not Credit Report believe your Eyes Do you not find our Meetings Thronged and many of your Churches Empty C. Somewhat of Both I must Confess but yet I am likewise inform'd that you shew divers of these Meetings as Peters did his Rings and Bodkins at several Places several times over and over to make a Noise ond increase the Reputation of your Party To contract the Discourse There is a loud Clamour and the Ministers make it And These too that stickle in the Cause none of the most Conscientious neither unless they have a Gospel we never heard of to Iustifie Disobedience in Themselves the Provoking of it in Others The Disturbing of the Publique Peace and the Sowing of Dissention betwixt Prince and People Which is manifestly the Scope of their Writings and Designs N. C. That Undertaking goes somewhat too far to pronounce upon their Designs Do you pretend to know their Hearts then C. Yes and with very good Authority If a Man may be allow'd to judge what Reasonable Men aim at from deliberate Words and Actions that lead naturally to such and such Certain Ends. And this Humour I tell ye of Aspersing the Government and Teizing the Multitude runs through all their Papers I durst appeal to your own Soul Whether you your self can Imagine that a Twentieth Part of the present Plaintiffs in Matter of Conscience are truly acted and possest with that Scrupulosity they pretend to Alas Alas You talk of Conscience 'T is not what every Man Thinks or Says that is presently Conscience We are impos'd upon by Phansie Artifice or Delusion Some Deceive Themselves and Others Cousen Us. In one Word Whatsoever is not of Conscience in this Medly is Faction And undoubtedly the Conscientious Party has but a slender share in the Mixture As That Party is not Numerous so neither is it Dangerous upon a Principle of Honesty and Religion No Man of Conscience can either desire to Embroyl the Kingdom or expect to be the Better for 't But still have a care how ye take every thing for Gold that Glisters Conscience was the Subject of the last Quarrel Religion the Pretext Popery the Bug-bear And the Issue of it was Dreadful Consider with your selves You have many of the same Persons to lead you on And They have the very same Matter too to work upon You meant no hurt to the last King you say And yet you ruin'd him You may perchance Intend as little Harm to This and yet do him as much And what amends is it when the Government is laid again in Dust and Desolation to cry You were Overseen If you had thought it should ever have come to This you would have cut off your Hands or Tongues and I know not what Look Back and Tremble at the Course you are now upon for you are Questionless in the very Track of the late Rebellion And one may without Breach of Charity conclude that No Man that was an Active Instrument in the last War can acquit himself of a most Prodigious Impiety and Ingratitude in reviving and prosecuting the same Interest and Method now against the SON by which he notoriously contributed toward the Death of the FATHER SECT XIX The Non-Conformists Appeal from the Government and Discipline of the Church of England to the Judgment and Practise of the Reformed Churches BEYOND THE SEAS Examined and Submitted to Censure C. IT is observable that throughout the whole Quarrel against the Orders and Government of the Church of England the Non-Conformists still fly for Countenance to the Iudgment of the Reformed Churches Abroad And so likewise in the Question of Toleration they Insist much upon the Practise and Tenderness of Other Churches As if the Ecclesiastical State of This Kingdom were as Singular for Tyranny and Corruption as in Truth the Litigants Themselves are for Contumacy and Disobedience In the Answer of the Two Houses to the Scots Declaration 164â—… This Government by Arch-Bishops Bishops c. is Declared to be Evil justly Offensive and Burdensom to the Kingdom a great Impediment to the Reformation and Growth of Religion and Resolved it is that it shall be taken away With a Regard to the Introducing of another Government more apt to procure an Union with the Church of Scotland and OTHER REFORMED CHURCHES ABROAD And the Ministers in the Petition for Peace sing the same Note too If Men say they must be cast out of the Church and Ministry because they are not wiser then the Pastors of
most of the REFORMED CHURCHES c. As who should say The Church of England is the only Protestant Church in the Christian World that pretends to This Way of Proceeding and the Protestants Abroad are all of the Non-Conformists side Let this Matter be fairly Examin'd I beseech you and we shall quickly see where the Fault lies In the first Place What is the Judgment of the Reformed Churches abroad touching the English Episcopacy N. C. You may read their Iudgments in their Practises Or 't is but looking into the Reformation in France Holland and the Neighbourhood and you may resolve your self in that Point C. Truly I find nothing at all to your Advantage which way soever I look Luther himself distinguishes betwixt Popish Tyrants and True Bishops and professes to Condemn them as Popish not as Bishops The Authors of the Augustane Confession profess that they would willingly preserve the Ecclesiastical and Canonical Politie if the Bishops would cease to Tyrannize over their Churches Bucer declares himself wholly for Bishops and Metropolitans And Melancthon to Luther You would not Imagine says he how some People are Nettled to see Church-Polity restor'd as if it were the Romish Sovereignty again Ita de Regno suo non de Evangelio dimicant Socii nostri As if the Quarrel were Dominion not Religion Calvin acknowledges that the Ancient Government by Arch-Bishops and Bishops and the Nicene Constitution of Patriarchs was for Orders sake and Good Government And delivers himself to Cardinal Sadolet with an Anathema upon the Opposers of that Hierarchy which submits it self to Jesus Christ. Zanchie the Compiler of the Gallican Confession observes a Change of Name rather then of Office throughout most of the German Churches As Super-Intendents and General-Super Intendents in the place of Bishops and Arch-Bishops Acknowledging that by the Consent of Histories Counsels and the Ancient Fathers Those Orders have been Generally allowed by all Christian Societies Where they are in Exercise let them continue and where by the Iniquity of the Times they have been abolish'd they ought to be restor'd Beza the rigid Successor of Calvin in excuse to the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury for meddling beyond his Sphere We do not charge says he all Arch-Bishops and Bishops with Tyranny The Church of England hath offorded many Learned Men and many Glorious Martyrs of That Function If That Authority be there still may a perpetual Blessing go along with it This in the Name of the whole Church of Geneva and Addressed To the Primate of all England Totius Angliae Primati Saravia arguing for the Hierarchy out of the Apostles Canons Beza returns him This Answer This is no more then what we wish might be restor'd to all Churches Quid aliud hic statuitur quam quod in omnibus locis Ecclesiis restitutum cupimus The Three Kingdoms of Swede Denmark and Norway as Mr. Durell observes retein the Order still of Bishops and Arch-Bishops In the Protestant Cantons of Switzerland there is also a Subordination of Ministers And so in the Palatinate in Hessen the Duke of Brandenburgh's Territories Anhalt Bremen Poland Lithuania c. Come we now into France Holland and Geneva And first hear Mr. du Bosc of the Reformed Church of Caen. Well-ordered Episcopacy hath most Important and Considerable Utilities which cannot be found in the Presbyterian Discipline Mr. Gaches one of the Ministers of Charenton The best Men in our Churches says he have honour'd the Prelates of England The Name of Schism may do more harm to the Church in one Year then the Excâ—…ss of Episcopal Authority can do in an Age. And again Sin hath brought in the Necessity of Government and the Failings of Ministers make the Order of Bishops Necessary Mr. le Moyn of Rouen pronounces it to be want of Prudence and Charity if any seek the Ruine of Bishops I trust that his Majesty will be sure to re-establish the Authority of the English Church and use his Power for a perfect Re-union of all the Reformed Churches which that be may Effect His Majesty must preserve his Bishops I hold it impossible says Mr. Gayon of Bourdeaux that England can ever be quiet and flourish but under the Episcopal Government In Holland Bogermannus the President of the Synod at Dort upon a Suggestion from the Bishop of Landaff how fit a Remedy Episcopacy would be for the Suppression of Heresies and Schism made this Reply Domine non sumus adeò foelices We are not so happy My Lord. And for Geneva we have the Voices of the Principals of that Church also for the Authority and Advantage of Episcopal Government So that if you be no better Seconded against our Ceremonies then you are against our Bishops you have the whole Stream of Protestant Divines against you This is according to what I have formerly had occasion to deliver upon This Subject N. C. We do dissent upon just Reasons from the Ecclessastical Hierarchy 〈◊〉 Prelacy DISCLAIMED IN COVENANT as it was Stated and Exercised in These Kingdoms yet do 〈◊〉 nor ever did renounce the True Ancient Primitive Episcopacy as it was Balanced or Menaged by a Due Commixtion of Presbyters therewith C. We are not here to Debate the Qualifications and Limits of the Episcopacy you pretend to but to proceed having made it appear that the Hierarchy which under Colour of Reduction or Commixtion you formerly rooted out and are now again undermining is That very Hierarchy which you have now heard Reverenced and Recommended by so many Venerable Testimonies Or if after all This you can but produce one Publick Act of any Protestant Church beyond the Seas in favour of your Claim do it and save your Party the Credit of not being Single and Particular in your Schism What have you next to say against our Ceremonies N. C. All the best Reformed Churches of Christ who only are Competent Iudges in this Case and to whose Iudgment and Example we ought rather to Conform our selves in Ceremonies then to the Synagague of Anti-Christ do esteem those Ceremonies Needless Inexpedient and Fit to be Abolished How the Churches of other Countries approve of them may appear sufficiently by this that they have banished the use of them out of their Assemblies C. Are they only NEEDLESS INEXPEDIENT and FIT to be Abolish'd then I thought you would have found them absolutely UNLAWFUL IDOLATROUS and upon pein of DAMNATION not to be RETEINED According to This Measure What will become of the whole Frame of our Government if it shall take you in the head to say the same thing of every Law and Constitution of the Land Ceremonies will not down with you because they are Needless Inexpedient c. I beseech you shew me the Needfulness of Killing and Plundring or the Expedience of Dissolving Publique Laws and Depopulating Kingdoms And yet These are Matters you can Swallow even without Chewing Needless And Inexpedient Soâ—…ly I beseech you
you are for teaching your Governours more WIT as well as more Religion and Conscience N. C. â—…eep to your Text I pray'e for we are not now upon the Lawfulness of the English Ceremonies but upon an Enquiry What Enterteinment they receive in the judgment and Practise of other Reformed Churches without engaging our selves in any other Consideration of their Reason and Convenience I say they are banish'd out of their Assemblies and you are at Liberty if you can to prove the Contrary C. Let us first see how far we agree upon the Allowance of any Ceremonies at all and where to place the Right and Authority of Imposing them The Church of England thinks it convenient that every Country should use such Ceremonies as they shall think best to the setting forth of God's Honour and Glory c. Which is according to the sense of Other Reformed Churches as appears by their several Confessions With Us agrees first the Church of Helvetia Churches have always used their Liberty in Rites as being things Indifferent which we also do at this Day That of Bohemia likewise Humane Traditions and Ceremonies brought in by a Good Custom are with an Uniform Consent to be reteined in the Ecclesiastical Assemblies of Christian People at the Common Service of God The Gallican Every Place may have their Peculiar Constitutions as it shall seem meet for them The Belgique We receive those Laws that are fit either to cherish or maintein Concord or to keep us in the Obedience of God That of Auspurgh Ecclesiastical Rites which are Ordein'd by Man's Authority and tend to Quietness and Good Order in the Church are to be Observed That of Saxony For Order sake there must be some Decent and Seemly Ceremonies That of Swethland Sueh Traditions of Men as agree with the Scriptures and were Ordeined for Good Manners and the Profit of Men are worthily to be accounted rather of God then of Man N. C. The Question is not about an Agreement in Ceremonies that may be Exercised without Offence either to God or Man according to your Instances but about their Liking or Dislike of Those in Practise among Us As the Surplice Kneeling at the Communion The Cross in Baptism and the like C. As to the SURPLICE Mr. Durell tells you that the Churches that Conform to the Confession of Augsburgh have the very same Ceremonies with the Church of England And Surplices in many Places And further that a National Assembly at Charenton Anno 1631. hath declared that there is neither Idolatry nor Superstition in That Worship The Protestant Ministers also in Bohemia Lithuania Prussia make no Scruple at all of Preaching in Surplices whensoever they are called upon to Preach where Surplices are used Nay Calvin himself does not approve of Hooper ' s violent Inconformity in that Point De Pileo Veste Linea maluissem ut illa etiam non probem non usque adeo ipsum pugnare Idque nuper suadebam And let Mr. Baxter pin the Basket Some Decent Garment is necessary either the Magistrate or Minister himself or the Associated Pastors must determine what If the Magistrate or Synod tie all to one Habit Suppose it Indeoent yet this is but an Imprudent use of Power and the thing it self being Lawful I would Obey and use that Garment N. C. You only make mention where it has been used and permitted but you take no Notice where it has been Rejected And then the Personal Authorities you cite in favour of it declare their Iudgments to be still against it C. But only so against it as not to Allow of a Separation upon That Scruple Now whereas you object the Refusal or Rejection of it elsewhere It does not follow that every Church disallows what it does not Practise And it shall content me to find the Practise of so many Churches for us and None against us As to KNEELING at the Communion the Bohemian Churches use that Posture and so do the Churches of Poland With whom the French and Dutch do so far agree as In hoc Ritu suam cuique Ecclesiae Libertatatem salvam relinquere To leave every Church at its own Freedom in that Particular Mr. Baxter in his Five Disputations does also profess that rather then disturb the Peace of the Church he would Kneel too How hardly soever he may think of the Imposition So that in the Case of Kneeling likewise we have several of the Reformed Churches that joyn with us in the Practise of it and not so much as any one of them that appears in our Condemnation Touching the Use of the CROSS in Baptism beside the undeniable Antiquity of the Custom you may hear from Mr. Durell that The Reformed Churches of the Confession of Augsburgh do for the most part use it and that at Paris many Children of the Church of Charenton have been Baptized in the Chappels of the English Embassadours there according to the Rites of the Church of England And moreover that only the Nonconforming English and Scotch oppose it I could enlarge my self upon very good Authority to the justification of our way of Worship throughout in every Particular of your Exceptions but I will rather chuse to encounter all your Objections at once by proving that the Protestant Churches Abroad have as great a Reverence for the Authority Rites and Ceremonies of the Church of England in the whole Frame of the Constitution as they have a Kindness for the several Parts of it which they do severally Exercise among Themselves I must still be beholden to the Industry of the Reverend Durell who has much obliged us with a clear and Methodical Manifestation of the Agreement of the Church of England as it is now Established by the Act of Uniformity with other Reformed Churches beyond the Seas Sir Iohn Colladon one of his Majesties Physicians in Ordinary had the Honour to Congratulate his Majesties Restauration from the City and Church of Geneva and from the Protestant Cantons in Switzerland Upon his Departure he put this Quaere to the Rulers of the said Church Whether he might Lawfully Joyn with the Church of England in Publique Worship and receive the Holy Sacrament according to the usual Rites thereof It was Answer'd That he might and that it was not to be Question'd Here is also A whole French Reformed Congregation that hath Conformed to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church of England to the great Satisfaction of the Divines of Rouen Paris Geneva Bourdeaux c. And since the Establishment of This Church divers Ministers have come over from Geneva France Germany Poland Lithuania Piemont Students Elders Private Persons And none of them ever yet refused either to Assist or to Conform Mr. de Laune Minister of the Wallons Church at Norwich and Mr. Calendrin one of the Ministers of the Dutch Church in London have divers times Officiated in English Congregations according to the Book
of a Religious Education C. If This be All never Trouble your selves for many an honest Man has out-liv'd more then this comes to In short There 's a huge Clamour but God knows with little Reason Some Particulars will possibly suffer for want of a Toleration and who are They but the Profest Opposers of the Law And on the Other side All the Friends of the Government will suffer by it If you would see the Event of Granting what you ask Turn but your Face toward 41 and then Blush and Repent Besides You 're not aware that in Contesting with the Law you Quarrel with your self THERE' 's YOUR OWN VOTE AGAINST YOU and all this Muttering is no other then your Factious Will wrangling with your Political Consent And yet I say Stick to your Conscience Let us now put the Case of a Real Distance betwixt This Act and your Conscience How will you divide your Duty N. C. I 'le follow your Advice and stick to my Conscience C. Now change Hands and make your self the Supreme Magistrate He has a Double Conscience One that concerns Himself the Other his People What his Majesties Personal Iudgment is has been Declared Abundantly What his Prudential Iudgment may dispose Him to lies in His Royal Brest But be That as Heaven shall Order it Here 's the Partition of your Rights The King's Prerogative has nothing to do with your Conscience and your Conscience has as little to do with His Majesties Prerogative The King is Accomptable to God for the Welfare of his People and You are only Accomptable to God for the Good of your little Particular If You cannot Obey the Law Do not But abide the Penalty If the Sovereign cannot Relax the Law He 's as Free to Execute it Your Conscience requires Liberty and your Governour 's Conscience requires Order Now why you should expect that your Sovereign should bring down His Conscience to Yours when you find upon Experiment that you cannot perswade your Own to come up to His is to me a Mystery To Conclude Keep your self within your Sphere and where you cannot Consent as a Christian Submit as a Subject that We may at last hope for some Respite from the Calamities of Sedition and Schism N. C. And why not Scandal and Profaneness too For the Edge of your Severity might be directed to much better Purpose That way SECT XXIV The Church of England charges the Non-Conformists with SCHISM and the Non-Conformists charge those of the Church with SCANDAL The Matter is taken into Debate N. C. YOur Position is That no Toleration is to be admitted to the hazzard of Religion Good Life and Government Keep to That Standard and you will find that the Conformists have as little Pretense to a Toleration as their Neighbours and that the Notorious Scandal on the one side outweighs the Objected Schism on the other C. This will scarce hold if you come to be Try'd by your own Laws which make it a Matter of Scandal by Writing Preaching or otherwise to publish a Disaffection to the Present Government But Explain your self N. C. By Scandal I mean Habitual Prophaneness Sensuality Dissolution of Manners c. As by Schism I suppose you intend our Incompliances with your Church-Discipline Weigh These Two now One against the Other and do you your self hold the Balance Set up your Tavern-Clubs against our Conventicles Oppose your Combinations against God Himself to our Plots against the Government For you must not take it Ill if I tell ye that Atheism is become the Sport and Salt of your most Celebrated Enterteinments And when you have dash'd the Bible out of Countenance with the Story of the Three Grand Impostors or some such Lashing Piece of Drollery The Questioning of God's Over-ruling Wisdom by Solemn Arguments and the Placing of Fortune in the Throne of Providence is that which commonly Crowns your Conversations C. You should not charge Personal Crimes upon a Party unless you can prove them to be rationally Consequent to the Tenets and Actings of That Party Now if you can shew me any Affinity betwixt our Principles and These Impieties you say something But if you cannot The Dust of your Argument puts out your own Eyes I do not wonder I must confess to see a Nation Over-run with Atheism that has been so many Years under your Tuition or to find the Brat of a Conventicle laid at the Church-Door N. C. May not We charge Personal Extravagancies upon your Party as well as You do upon Ours C. Yes If you can prove the same Agreement against Us betwixt the Faults of the One and the Principles of the Other which we are able to justifie against You. The Episcopal Party you know stood for the King and it is undeniable that the King and Church had the same Cause and Fate It is as unquestionable on the other side that the Non-Conformists destroy'd both the One and the Other Not by Accident neither but by a Form'd and Excogitated Design wrap'd up and couch'd in the very Mystery and Foundation of the Schism Your Separation from a Communion with the Church resolving naturally into a Combination against the Entire Frame of the Government till in the End by the help of a Peinful and Well-effected Ministry the Generality of the People were Preach'd into This Division i. e. Those that could not reach the Cheat were taught to Scruple at Every Thing and Those that went along with it to make a Conscience of Nothing And this is it that has brought us to be so Pester'd with Enthusiasts and Atheists N. C. But let me tell ye again the Atheists are of the Other Party C. And let me enform you too that your Proceedings have made Atheists more ways then One First The meer Quality of your Cause has made Atheism the Interest of a great many of your Partakers who to put off the Thought of a Divine Vengeance attending them if there be a God Endeavour for their own Quiet to perswade themselves that there is no God at all Secondly The Work has been carried on under the Masque of Holiness and the most Desperate Atheist is nothing else but a Crusted Hypocrite I speak of your Religious Atheist who has This Odds of the Profane and Scoffing Wretch that he abuses God to his Face and in his own House The Great Atheists indeed are Hypocrites says Sir Francis Bacon which are ever bandling Holy Things but without Feeling so as they must needs be Cauteriz'd in the End It is Remarquable as I have elsewhere recommended to your Observation that in the Holy Scripture there are not so many Woes pronounc'd nor so many Cautions Inculcated against any sort of People as against Hypocrites You shall there find that God has given the Grace of Repentance to Persecutors Idolaters Murtherers Adulterers c. But I am mistaken if the whole Bible yields any one Instance of a CONVERTED Hypocrite Thirdly You have done more in your Practises
Free Liberty which you willingly afforded us to have of the use of our Own Chaplains makes us at this time not only to Acknowledge your Former Civilities but c. So that His Majesties Condition appears to have been somewhat more easie at Hampton-Court then before it was at Holdenby Nay most certain it is that the Presbyterians even at That very Time did the Deadly Thing that brought the King to the Seaffold Presb. How could That be when the Two Houses by Purging and Modelling were Subjected Absolutely to the Devotion of the Army Indep Thus they did it His Majesty was at That time upon fair Terms with Cromwel and Ireton and not without large hopes of a Final Accommodation The Author of The History of Independency Pa. 35. is positive as to their Treating with the King While This was in Agitation the Presbyterians were at work on the other hand to break the King's Confidence in the Army by Imputations of Treachery and Levity to divert his Majesty to the Seeking of Relief elswhere with particular Undertakings of great Matters from Scotland and the City of London This way of Tampering might very well put the King to a stand which Cromwel no sooner perceived but he Immediately betook himself to a Course of Extremity Irritated over and above as is credibly affirmed by an Advise foom Argyle in confirmation of his Jealousie His Majesties next Remove was to the Isle of Wight Where for Ceremonies sake he was presented with Four Bills and upon his Refusal to pass them followed the Vote of NON-ADDRESSES In Passing these Bills His Majesty had not only divested Himself and His Successors of all Sovereignty but Subjected his People to the Basest and most Absolute Tyranny that ever was Excrcis'd upon Mortals Presb. You will not call This the Act of the Presbyterians I hope Indep No I will not But yet I must tell you that the Presbyterians upon this Juncture did every jote as much as this Amounts to So soon as the Parliament of Scotland was thoroughly Inform'd of the Distress and Danger of the King's Condition the Matter was presently Debated and a Resolution taken to Raise an Army for his Majesties Relief In which Proceeding they were violently opposed by the Genral Assembly without any regard at all to the King's Life at that time in Qâ—…estion See The Humble Desires of the Commissioners of the General Assembly to the Parliament Pag. 13. We desire that his Majesties late Concessions and Offers concerning Religion as they have been by the Church so may be by the Parliament declared UNSATISFACTORY March 22. 1648. And afterward Ian. 10. 1648. That his Majesties late Concessions and Offers concerning Religion may by your Lordships DIRECTLY and POSITIVELY be Declared UNSATISFACTORY to this present Parliament And that there shall be no Engagement for Restoring his Majesty to one of his Houses with Honour Freedom and Safety before Security and Assurance be had from his Majesty by his Solemn OATH under his HAND and SEAL that â—…e shall for HIMSELF and his SUCCESSORS Consent and Agree to Acts of Parliament enjoyning the League and Covenant and fully Establishing Presbyterian Government Directory of Worship and Confession of Faith in all his Majesties Dominions and that his Majesty shall never make Opposition to any of these or endeavour any Change thereof This is Rivetted with a Mischief And pray'e shew me now the Material Difference between Precluding His Majesty by a Vote of NO ADDRESS or by a Resolution of NO AGREEMENT His Honour and Conscience being equally at Stake on either side To give you the Sum of all in short The Presbyterians began the War Pursu'd it made the King a Prisoner Sold him and in the Depth of his Calamity presented him with Templation instead of Comfort No Composition would be heard of but the Forfeiture of his SOUL for the Saving of his LIFE Presb. But the Independents however Crown'd the Wickedness with his Blood Indep Suppose it so They did only Execute the Sentence but the Presbyterians Pronounc'd it Neither did they Execute it as Independents or under colour of any Impulse of Religion or Conscience but upon Civil and Political Pretexts He was adjudged to be put to Death as a Tyrant Traytor Murtherer and Publique Enemy Not for Refusing to Enter into a Church-Covenant or Establish Liberty of Conscience but upon a Pestilent Motive of Diabolical Policy and State Whereas the Presbyterians persecuted him as PRESBYTERIANS and depriv'd him of his Royal Support Dignity Friends Freedom in Effect Life and all because he would not renounce his Reason and Conscience in favour of their Government And I am verily perswaded that you will have as little to say for your Principles as for your Actions SECT XXVI What Party soever DEMANDS a Toleration and yet Mainteins that It is Destructive both of Church and State to GRANT one Is an ENEMY to BOTH Indep AS to the Point in Question It lies Naturally before us to speak first to the Thing in it self and we may afterward consider it in the Consequences In the Desire of a Toleration the Independents ask no more then they would be ready to Allow I wish the Presbyterians could say the like Presb. In the large sense of Allowing all sorts of Libertines and Heretiques as the late Independent Government did I do confess you have out-done the Presbyterians Indep And yet Those very Libertines and Heretiques were Your White-Boys and Favourites so long as they serv'd Your Ends. They had none of this Language from you when they Tumulted against Bishops and Common-Prayer Ceremonies and Popish Lords While they were the Instruments of Your Ambition they were the Godly Well-affected Party So that Heretiques it seems will down well enough with your Politiques though not with your Consciences Provided they will content themselves to be Damn'd and let the Presbyterians alone to Govern Presb. The Independents made sweet work in Holland did they not And where was your Spirit of Toleration and Forbearance I beseech you in New-England Indep You cannot say that we gave any Trouble in Holland to the State or that we fell foul there upon Different Iudgments In New-England 't is true we excluded the Gortonists Familists Seekers Antinomians Anabaptists and Subjected them to the Censure of the Civil Power as People of Dangerous Principles in Respect both of Good Life and Government Which Proceeding of ourâ—… methinks might serve to disabuse those that call Independency the Genus Generalissimum of all Errours Heresies Blasphemies and Schisms and take the Church way of new-New-England for that sort of Independency They did also exclude Papacy and Prelacy The Latter perchance more out of Regard to a Temporary Convenience then upon any rooted Principle of Implacable Severity And I perswade my self the Episcopal Party will witness thus much on our Behalfs that as to the Freedom of their Meetings and way of Worship in the late Revolutions they had much better Quarter from the Independents
then ever they had from the Presbyterians There was no Persecuting of Men for Covenants and Directories So that Thus far the Independents have made their Professions of Liberty good by their Practise Presb. And are not the Classical Presbyterians as much for a Lawful Liberty as the Congregationals Lâ—…t there be a Toleration in Religion excepting to Blasphemy Treason or Gross Errours Bear with the Weak Tolerate the Tolerable and for the Intolerable we beg not your Toleration â—…ere's the Sense and Destre of the Presbyterian Divines that were Commission'd about the Review of the Service-Book Indep This is only a New Song to an Old Tune The Presbyterians have just the same need of the Independents at this day that they had some nine and twenty Years ago The Author of The Discourse of Religion has many good Remarques upon the Papists that may be very well applied to the Presbyterians and This for One. Things past says he may afford Prognostiques of things to come So that we are to gather what you intend now from what you did after saying the same things before Or if you had rather come to a Tryal upon the Evidence of your own Manifestos and Declarations then upon the History of your Practises I shall make use of no other Testimony against you The Presbyterians press the Demand of a Toleration as a very reasonable Request and yet they Themselves have pronounc'd Judgment against it as a thing against Conscience Destructive of Publique Order both in Church and State and of the Peace of Common Society Toleration says Mr. Edwards cannot be Condescended to without a Breach of Oath and Covenant It is the Depth of Satan this Design of a Toleration He does not move for a Toleration of Heresies and Gross Errours but an Allowance of a LATITUDE in some LESSER DIFFERENCES with Peaceableness This is Candidus ille Diabolus That White Devil c. The London Ministers Letter to the Assembly in 1645. declares it Repugnant to the Solemn League and Covenant The Commissioners of the Kirk of Scotland do Protest and Declare against it as Inconsistent with and Repugnant to the Word of God As to the Influence of a Toleration upon Church and State Mr. Edwards tells us that The Party Tolerated will never rest Working till they get the upper hand and Suppress the Other Rutherford is positive that such Opinions and Practises as make an Evident Schism in a Church and set up two Distinct Churches of Different Forms and Government are NOT to be Tolerated For by their Principles they labour each the Destruction of the other and this Toleration destroys Peace and Unity Again The London Ministers are of Opinion that it will produce causless and unjust Revolts from the Ministry and Congregations The Peoples Minds will be Troubled and in Danger to be Subverted Heart-burnings will be Fomented and Perpetuated to Posterity The Godly Peinful and Orthodox Ministers will be Discouraged and Despis'd The Life and Power of Godliness will be eaten up by Frivolous Disputes and Ianglings And the whole Church of England in short time will be swallowed up with Distraction and Confusion The Kingdom will be wofully weakned also by Scandals and Divisions The Power of the Magistrate will not be only weakned but utterly overthrown by the Anti-Magistratical Principles and Practises of the Independents And the whole Course of Religion in Private Families will be interrupted and undermined Not to multiply Authorities more then necessary This has been the strein of all your Proceedings Imperiously and Inexorably Strict and Rigorous in Imposing upon Others and as Shamelesly Importune and Clamorous for Liberty to Your selves But what have I more to do then to pass Sentence upon you out of your own Mouths You cannot in Conscience desire a Toleration if you understand it to be Against Conscience to Grant it And the very Asking of That which you believe would draw a Destruction upon Church and State is Ground enough for a strong Presumption that you Intend it Presb. That which was a Reasonable Cause of Refusal from the Presbyterians to the Independents will not hold good from the Church of England to the Presbyterians Either in respect of the Stability of our Government or of the Sobriety of our Principles SECT XXVII In Case of a Toleration or Indulgence to be Granted Whether has the fairer Pretense to it The CLASSICAL Way of the PRESBYTERIANS or the CONGREGATIONAL Way of the INDEPENDENTS in Respect of their Form of Government Indep THe Presbyterians you say are rather to be Tolerated then the Independents in regard of the Stability of their Government and the Sobriety of their Principles To speak in this Place to the Matter of their Government I think your Argument is very ill grounded For in Deliberations of this Nature the Cautions that occur to all Magistrates are chiefly These Two First in case of an Indulgence that it may be placed upon a Party which in Probability would not disturb the Publique if they could But Secondly to make sure however for fear of the worst that they shall not be able to do it if they would So that whether a Stable and United or a Loose and Distracted Interest may with more Security be Indulged is the Question Presb. You may as well ask Whether Order or Confusion be more Tolerable in a Government Indep That Order which is Necessary in the Government it self is Dangerous in the Enemies of it But deliver your Exceptions to the Toleration of those which you call Independents in Regard of their way of Government Presb. You have already in a good part sav'd me that Labour But a Man shall not need to go further for an Exception then to the very Denomination of them which Imports an Exemption from all Iurisdiction both Eclesiastical and Civil Indep But what will become of That Exception when I shall tell you that those People are no more Independent then the Presbyterians We depend upon the Magistrate for Civil Government and Protection and upon Christ and his Word for the Rule of our Administrations Nay we insist upon it that the Congregational Way is the only true Original Presbytery which is Peculiar to every Particular Church of Christ. But if you call us Independent as in distinction to Subordinate we are not only ready as such Independents to defend our selves but by virtue of That very Independency we pretend to claim an Advantage over the Presbyterians Presb. I could tell ye of your Church-Covenants and Defensive Leagues against the Commands of Authority Indep But I could speak homer to you of your National Leagues and Covenants which all the World knows are the grand Engines to disjoynt Communities and remove the Foundations of Government And I do not much wonder at it where the Act of a General Assembly Influences the Consciences of a whole Nation As to any Covenants and Leagues against the Magistrate neither do the Independents practise