before him had miserably failed of carrying on the Succession of True Doctrin Now I will be content in this Matter to make you the Judge that if they are not lawful Pastors who want succession of Doctrin whether the unlawful ones be those who broke the Succession of it at first or those that restored it afterwards And because I will not tye you too severely to your own words I will abate the word lawful and suffer you to put Good Pastors instead of it For I think that Orders and Regularity of Episcopal Succession will suffice to make them lawful Bishops who for corrupting the Doctrin of the Church shall not be allowed to be Good ones I have one word more to say and then you shall speak You have heard I perceive from some of your Friends that the Archbishops of Canterbury for Nine Ages before Cranmer were Roman Chtholicks Now their meaning was that all the Archbishops of Canterbury even from the time of Gregory the Great that sent Austin hither were just such believers as those whom you now call Roman Catholicks But tho' you know not these Matters and it may be not they neither yet I can assure you that very many of your Doctrins and Practices are not only different from but contrary to what was believed and done in Pope Gregories days which you shall find made out very clearly to your hands in the Vindication of the Answer to some late Paper p. 72. c. So that there has been sad tampering with Christianity since his time and when first the Archbishops of Canterbury became your Roman Catholicks they themselves interrupted the Succession of Primitive and Antient Doctrin Take good notice of the place I refer you to in that excellent Book now mentioned and if you improve by it as you ought I may direct you hereafter where to find that the Corrupt Doctrins of your Church were of a much later date than for you to talk as you do of Nine Ages before Cranmer Sect. 16 Quer. Whether that be a True Church that wants Lawful Pastors And whether Pastors not Lawful and True can be said to have true Sacraments If not then is it not better to Communicate under One Kind with Catholicks than under No Kind with Reformers Answ But if we have Lawful and True Pastors as for any thing that you have hitherto said nay that you or any of your Party can say we are sure that we have then this Query comes in too soon And therefore at present the Question stands thus Whether it is not better to Communicate under Both kinds with the Real Catholicks than under One Kind only with the Pretended Ones But if you think fit to Renew the Query I would advise you to Mend it a little against the next time and not by any means to question the Validity of our Sacraments so crudely as you do for you will find that your own Church does not presume to Baptize those over again which go from us to you And it were not amiss if you would tell us more distinctly what you mean by Lawful Pastors whether you oppose them only to such of the Validity of whose Orders we have no good assurance or who also came into their Cures by Simony or who are Schismatical Pastors and the like for these can hardly be said to be Lawful Pastors Make your Query plain and I have a plain Answer for you which perhaps you little think of Sect. 17 Quer. Whether the XXXIX Articles of the Church of England be Articles of Faith yea or no If not then no body is bound to believe them under pain of Damnation If they be then hath the Church of England invented New Articles of Faith besides those XII instituted by Christ and his Apostles Answ In Return to this Query I shall deal as plainly with you as you could wish Many of the Articles of the Church of England are Doctrins opposed to the Errors and Innovations which your Church holds for Articles of Faith. Now as to these Doctrins we do not Esteem them in the same rank with the Articles of Faith because they are not at all times necessary to be propounded to all in order to their Salvation but they are necessary to be taught the Faithful in these Parts of Christendom to secure them from the Contagion of those Errors you have brought into the Church For instance if you had not set up the Doctrine and Practice of Praying to the Saints there had been no need at all of a Determination of this Church against it nor had it been necessary to instruct our People that the Saints are not to be Prayed unto Had not Your Church invented the Article of Transubstantiation Ours had not opposed a contrary Article to it Now as to the Doctrine of these and the like Articles of our Church we do not say that it is in itself Necessary but only Profitable But it is necessary for us to Teach it because as you have ordered Matters to be Ignorant thereof is very Dangerous the contrary Errors being Damnable For you are strangely mistaken if you think that no Error is damnable but the direct denial of some Truth which is always necessary to be propounded to all that is of an Article of Faith strictly and properly so called And I can assure you that the best Divines of your own Church are of another mind There is therefore no room left for your Second Supposition That if they be Articles of Faith then hath the Church of England invented New Articles of Faith c. But I wonder not a little at the boldness of your Inference while with no better colour for it you would draw us in to be suspected of that which yourselves are so notoriously guilty of i. e. of making New Articles of Faith. For had not you done so we should have had no occasion to Oppose your Inventions so vigorously as we have done nor you any colour to Insinuate as if we had added to the Creed I would fain know of you that if False Doctrins which do not directly contradict the Articles of the Creed should be thrust into the Creed by one part of the Church whether another should be afraid to contradict them for fear of being accused of adding the contrary Propositions to the Creed too though it be evident that they do it not but only take care to keep the Old Faith pure from New Doctrines and the Minds of the Faithful uncorrupted with False Doctrines If you should think fit to say so I must then ask you Whether Ten Thousand Foolish and False nay and Dangerous Opinions might not by some or others be tack'd to the Ancient Creeds and yet the rest of the Christian World should not dare to determine precisely against them And yet I must tell you That if you have not capacity enough to distinguish between rejecting Errors on the one side and adding to the Articles of the Creed on the other I
have a Question to offer you which will go near to spoil your Query and this it is If you will needs call our Articles Additions to the Common Articles of the Christian Faith whether it be not somewhat worse to add notorious and dangerous Errors to the Creed than to add plain and profitable and as the case may be necessary Truths to it Sect. 18 Quer. Whether the Reformed Religion may not be divided and sub-divided into Endless Reformations Answ The Turks have taken much notice of the Divisions of Christians Do you therefore go and Answer a Turk putting this Query Whether the Christian Religion may not be divided and sub-divided into Endless Religions And then I will Answer this wise Query of yours if you be not from that time able to Answer it yourself But if you should have but little concern for Christianity yet surely you have a great deal for Popery Therefore I expect your Answer to this other Query Whether the Sence of the Council of Trent may not be divided and sub-divided into endless Expositions and Representations Tell me this and I also will tell you whether the Reformed Religion c. Sect. 19 Quer. Whether in the matter of the Eucharist the Argument drawn from our Senses be not fallible The Reason of this Question is because the Serpents deceiv'd our first Parents by persuading them to believe their own Eyes rather than the Word of God. As that they should eat of the Tree of Knowledge because it was fair to the Eye Now if Mankind should be so deceived by their Sight Pray whence should their other Senses deserve more Credit Answ And was not the Fruit of that Tree fair to the Eye How then did their Sight deceive our First Parents Would any one that had but read Gen. 3.4 5. say that the Serpent deceiv'd our First Parents by persuading them to believe their own Eyes Be so just to yourself as to believe your own for once and read the words And the Serpent said unto the Woman Ye shall not surely die For God doth know that in the day that ye eat thereof then your Eyes shall be opened and ye shall be as Gods knowing Good and Evil. Now I take this to be a persuading them to believe something which they did not see and not as you say to believe their own Eyes And their Credulity as to this unseen Effect was that which prevailed with them to their ruin Remember therefore if you please that our First Parents were deceiv'd by giving an easie assent to a confident Boaster and bold Promiser of Supernatural Effects and from expecting more from such Assurances than what they could have been led to by the most full Information of their Senses Remember this I say and then apply it to the Eucharist as you shall see convenient Read the Text again and then tell me why you say that the Serpent deceiv'd them by persuading them to believe their own Eyes rather than the Word of God and why you give this Instance of it as if it were his Argument That they should eat of the tree of knowledge Because it was fair to the eye The truth is the Serpent set up his own glorious Promises against the Threatnings of the Almighty and in this we know he has been well imitated And if he had not wrought more upon them by their Hopes and Credulity than by Evidence of Sense for tho' they saw that the Fruit was pleasant to the Eyes we have no reason to think they would have tasted it had they not been deluded with the Expectation of being as Gods his Attemps of deceiving might have been as vain as yours are in this Query Quer. Whether the Church of England be not Changeable according to the various Inclinations of English Parliaments Sect. 20 Answ Changeable as how I pray for this one word Changeable splits the Query into I know not how many Queries unless you had told us as to what the Church of England may or may not be Changed according to the Will of English Parliaments For Instance the Church of England is at present the Church Established by Law and if you ask whether the Church of England with respect to Legal Establishment be not Changeable according to the various Inclinations of English Parliaments including as I hope you do the Pleasure of the Sovereign then without all doubt English Parliaments may Change the Church of England but we hope they will not do it But if by Changing the Church of England you mean that Parliaments can make the Religion professed by the Church of England to become a False Religion when their Inclinations are once varied from us then I tell you that the Church of England is not Changeable by English Parliaments nor by all the Powers upon Earth For this Matter is fixed to their hands and can never be unfixed to the end of the World. And I do willingly acknowledge that the Religion of the Church of Rome is in this respect every whit as Unchangeable as Ours that is to say that Part of it which contradicts Ours is False to day and all the Parliaments in the World cannot make it True to morrow If this Answer should offend you I pray do not blame me but thank yourself for putting the Query which no doubt pleased you very much But the Answer let me tell you is a good one We of this Church depend upon King and Parliament for the Legal Establishment of our Religion but not for the Truth of it the former therefore is Changeable because Men are so but the latter is not so because God Changeth not Thus we render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things that are Gods. And it were well if you would do so too Sect. 21 Quer. Whether the Spirit of Calvin denying and that of Luther affirming a Corporal Presence of Christ in the Sacrament be the same Spirit If not then both cannot be of God. Answ This again is so ambiguous and deceitful that one would think you had learn'd to frame your Queries after the pattern of the Famous Apollo's Answers Here therefore I must fall to Distinguishing as fast as I can and Answer as warily as if some great Matter depended upon it In the first place then I well remember that this word Spirit sometimes signifies Doctrin and if the meaning of the Question be whether Calvin's Doctrin against and Luther's for a Corporal Presence be the same I Answer positively and resolutely that they are not the same and finally I grant that those Two contrary Doctrins cannot both be of God. Secondly By this word Spirit we do sometimes understand the Disposition and Temper of a Man's Mind and then if the meaning of the Query be whether Calvin and Luther one of whom denied and the other maintained a Corporal Presence of Christ c. whether I say both these Men were for all this endued with the same qualities that make up
Imprimatur Liber cui Titulus Several Captious Queries c. Guil. Needham May 10. 1688. Several Captious QUERIES Concerning the English Reformation First Proposed By Dean Manby an Irish Convert in Latin And afterwards by T.W. in English Briefly and Fully ANSWER'D By the late Reverend and Learned Dr. CLAGETT Preacher to the Honourable Society of Grays-Inn and Chaplain in Ordinary to His Majesty LONDON Printed by H. Clark for James Adamson at the Angel and Crown in St. Paul's Church-Yard MDCLXXXVIII AN ANSWER TO T. W's QUERIES Sect. 1 Quer. THe Church of England is either the whole Catholick Church or a Member thereof If a Member only Name me that Church or Congregation under the Sun whose Sacraments and Liturgy she embraces unless she have cut her self off form the rest of the Body Answ If the Church of Rome were spread over the Face of the whole Earth excepting here in England and nothing would serve but we or they must be the Catholick Church Reason would require that the Church of England should be so which is the better and not the Church of Rome which would be but the bigger Church But we pretend not to be the Catholick Church because we neither need nor ought to boast beyond Truth The Sacraments we embrace are received by All Christian Churches in the World and no Church ought to receive any more We embrace the Liturgies of the other Reformed Churches and use our own as they use their own and embrace ours We embrace all that honest Chistians can embrace in the Liturgies of the Vnreformed and we reject the rest We have not cut our selves off from the rest of the Body but the Church of Rome has done so because she is resolved to be All or Nothing Sect. 2 Quer. Does she allow the Sacraments of Lutherans or Calvinists Answ She allows and administers the same Sacraments that Lutherans and Calvinists do not because they are Sacraments celebrated by them or by any others but because they are Sacraments instituted by Christ. Sect. 3 Quer. From whence was Cranmer that first Patriarch or Reformer of the Church of England sent Who gave him Authority to preach his Reformed Gospel Was it just or honest for him to rise up against the Church of Rome by vertue of a Commission from her received And if so I pray inform me whether a Bishop or Minister fallen from the Church of England may not also take upon him to Preach against the Church of England by pretence of the Orders received from her hands Answ Cranmer was immediately sent by the Bishops that Ordained and Consecrated him Originally by Christ who left that Power in the Church by which they did so So far therefore as he was the First Reformer of the Church of England he did what became his Mission better than if he had gone on to maintain False Doctrins as the Patriarch of Rome did That he was the First Reformer was not his fault but theirs who went before him in that great Station and should have done the same thing but did it not The Gospel which he preached was not the Gospel of Man and therefore not his own but the Gospel of Christ Nor was it properly a Reformed Gospel which he preached since the Gospel of Christ is in all Ages one and the same But if because he reformed the Profession of the Church in some things which were no part of the Gospel though they were pretended to be so he must be said to have preached a Reformed Gospel neither was he to blame for that whose Duty it was to cast Errors out of the Church but they only were to blame who had been so careless and treacherous as to let them in He did rise up against the Church of Rome when he arose against the Corruptions of that Church which had obtained in England unless the Church of Rome cannot subsist without such notorious Errors as he rose up against He was not her Enemy unless he became so by telling her the Truth Nor is it true that he receiv'd his Commission from Rome though he receiv'd it by the hands of Bishops that were in servitude to that See For his Commission had been every whit as good if they had not been subject to the Roman Bishop as they ought not to have been But since his Obligation to Christ from whom he received his Commission by their hands was infinitely greater than to them it was just and honest in him to rise up against those Unchristian Doctrins and Practices which they maintained and no less justifiable then to have risen up against the Arian Heresie if he had received his Orders from Arian Bishops And if ever the Church of England should fall into the like Corruptions again which God forbid those Bishops and Ministers that have received Orders from her hands and who in discharge thereof take upon them to preach not against the Church of England but against the wicked Doctrines and Practices of the Church those Bishops c. I say will do not only what they may but what they ought to do and for the doing of which they shall be rewarded at the last day by the Great Bishop and Shepherd of Souls by whose Authority and Command they so did Sect. 4 Quer. Whether want of Mission be not an Error in the Foundation of any Church It being Theft and Robbery as our Saviour hath taught us not to enter by the Door into the Sheepfold Answ That Cranmer did or that our Pastors now do want Mission is Falshood insinuated by this Query Their Mission has been more Canonical than that of many of your Popes has been But for once to Answer directly to an Impertinent Question The want of such Mission does not destroy the Being or as you call it the Foundation of a Church Nor is that the Door of which our Saviour spake in Joh. X. since in the needs of the Church Good Shepherd may come into the Fold without Canonical Mission and it has on the other side too often happened that Thieves and Robbers have come into the Fold by it who came not but for to steal and to kill and to destroy Sect. 5 Quer. Whether Cranmer entred by the Parliament Door or by the Gate of the Scriptures But this latter is the Old Song of Hereticks and Sectaries perpetually boasting of Scripture I demand therefore Does not the Bible admit of various Interpretations Whence of necessity some Judge is to be assigned to determin which is the true Interpretation unless your Inclinations be to wrangle to all Eternity Answ To the first of these profound Interrogations I Answer thus That if Cranmer entred by the Parliament Door 't is a Door at which you whoever you are would be glad to enter too provided you could get in without first passing the Gate of the Scriptures which you shut up against men for ye neither go in yourselves neither suffer ye them that are entring to go in For your saying
against him Sect. 9 Quer. But more Common Answer is That every National Church may Reform itself Be it so Then it follows Scotland may Reform itself to Calvinism Saxony to Lutheranism c. Answ And so you leave us to gather the rest in this manner but Scotland ought not to reform to Calvinism Saxony to Lutheranism and therefore a National Church may not reform itself Which is as much as to say That because the National Churches which reformed themselves did not all of them agree in every Point of Doctrine and Discipline with one another therefore they ought not to have reformed the most manifest Abuses notorious Errors in the taking a way of which they all agreed If you intended to insinuate that we Confess some defects in this or that National Church since they reformed your Argument is just such another as this Because the National Churches in reforming themselves did not do every good thing which they might therefore they ought not to have done the Good which they did You may Sir observe if you please that the Authority of any National Church to reform itself does not imply it to be an Indifferent thing how she proceeds in doing it Nor does it follow that because 't is possible for a National Church to use Authority in this Matter better or worse therefore she has no Authority at all in it If you are Ignorant of these things you do well to make Queries upon them but it should have been done modestly and without pretending to dispute of things in which you are so very unskilful Quer. Moreover 't is false that the Change of Religion was made here in England by Vote of the National Church or Clergy of England No no but by the giddiness of a Few during the Minority of Edward VI. being then a Child of Ten years old Read the Annals of those Times even Fox himself where 't is evident that almost all the English Bishops Cranmer and two or three more excepted were utterly against the pretended Reformation Sect. 10 Answ If the Reformation were not a Pretended only but a Real Reformation and if all the English Bishops almost were against it the more to blame they but the Reformation was not the less necessary Truth is to be followed with a Few if they are but Few that follow it but thou shalt not follow a Multitude to do evil It is better to be in the right with a Young King though he be but a Child than to be in the wrong with an Old Pope But for what you say That the Change of Religion in England was made by the Giddiness of a Few 't is notoriously False for they were but few in Comparison that opposed it and it was so generally received that Fire and Faggot in the next Reign was not able to destroy it Sect. 11 Quer. Yet let us suppose but not grant Religion to have been Reformed here by the major part of the English Clergy I understand not how it may be lawful for the Church of England being in Actual Communion with the Catholick Church to separate itself from the rest of the Body Answ She has not separated herself from the rest of the Body though she has not now for some time been in Actual Conjunction with one part of it and that the most corrupted part of all the Rest the true Reason whereof is that you will have no Communion with us but we must pay for it at the price of our Souls If to reform our selves be to separate from your Church look you to that who have it seems made both these things to be in effect the same thing by your hating to be Reformed We for our parts are amazed that Men who talk so much for Unity of Communion will not do that for the sake of Unity which ought to be done though Discord and Separation would certainly follow upon it Sect. 12 Quer. If you say this was not done by Fault of the English Church but of the Church of Rome obtruding on the World her Errors and Corruptions I answer in short That all Hereticks themselves being Judges will escape Condemnation And father let the Reader take notice that all Presbyterians are wont to urge this very Instance in their own defence against the Church England to wit that they have left only the Errors and Corruption of the English Church Answ If you say this was not done by Fault of the Roman Church but of the Church of England refusing to submit to the Supreme Pastor and rejecting the Catholick Faith I answer in short That All Vsurpers and Deceivers themselves being Judges will escape Condemnation And farther let the Reader take notice that though this Plea of forsaking the Errors of a Church lies in the middle to be taken up by every one that separates from a Church yet one may take it up with very good reason against one Church while another lays hold on it without any just cause for so doing against another Church Nor ought it to be esteemed any prejudice against using such a Plea when there is Cause for it that others may using when there is none For otherwise 't is impossible that the Innocent should ever make a good Plea for themselves since they that are guilty may if they can but speak take the same Words into their Mouths When the two Apostles said to the Council Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken anto you more than unto God judge ye they might have been told that this was no more than what every Deceiver might say And yet I suppose you will not deny but the Plea in their Mouths was a very just and sufficient Plea. Sect. 13 Quer. Whether the true Service of God had been corrupted throughout the whole World before Cranmer's Rise If not tell me in what Province of the Earth did exist Whether among the Waldenses But I am ignorant from whence Peter Waldo the Merchant of Lyons received his Mission Nor do I know whether his Sacraments are approved by the Church of England Answ The whole World is a very wide place and the Query is a very Impertinent Query For whether the true Service of God bad been corrupted throughout the whole World before Cramner's Rise or not one thing we are sure of that it was most vilely corrupted here and therefore that there was crying need to have it Reformed But if you long to have a more positive Answer to the Question first go and learn that every Corruption in the Service of God does not destroy the Truth though it lessens the Purity of it and that every Defect does not deserve to be called a Corruption that as to this Matter some Churches were better and others worse none I doubt perfect but that there was one worst of all so very bad that Peter Waldo needed not anny Mission to declare against the Corruptions of it Learn these things as you ought to do against the next time
and if you intend to go on in this way then you shall hear farther from me Concerning the Sacraments which the Church of England appears I have told you my mind once already Sect. 14 Quer. Whether at this day there be no Pure and Apostolical Service of God in the World except that established by Law in England and Irealnd Whether it be lawful for the People of England to invent a Church to themselves divided from all the rest of the Christian World By what Authority do they censure the Sacraments and Rites of the Roman Church Answ For an Answer to the first part of the Query I send you back but to the last Query of all where you may find it As to the second I say 't is not lawful for the people of England or for any other People to invent a Church by which you mean I should think to invent a New Religion New Doctrins Worships and Governments But what came into your Head to ask this Question I am not able to imagin since our people have Invented no New Church but only retrieved the Old Whilst you all people have been the best at this Invention and by Inventing a New Creed and New Objects of Worship and New Sacraments and a New Head of the Catholick Church have effectually divided yourselves from all the rest of the Christian World that stick to the Old Religion and will have none of your Inventions 2. I must acquaint you that the two former Branches of this Query seem to me to make up a kind of Nonsence between them for in the first you suppose that we pretend to have a pure Apostolical Service amongst us and in the second that we must needs grant our Church to be one of our own Invention Now we might take it ill to have Questions put upon us as if we were such Ninnies as to pretend to an Apostolical Service and yet to grant that we our selves were the Inventors of it 3. Take all together and the most I can make is this that you lay great weight upon your Presumption that by our Service we stand divided from the rest of the Christian World which I have already told you is notoriously false But for your better Instructions I shall add that if indeed we only had a Pure and Apostolical Service and yet upon the account of our Service no other Christians would Communicate with us the rest of the Christian World ought to be ashamed of it but we not at all By the run of your Queries you seem to be ignorant of one of the plainest things in the World which therefore I do again commend to your Consideration viz. that Truth is the same and changes not whether they be many or few that profess it and that our Religion stands not in a multitude of Pretenders but in a Holy Doctrin and a Holy Practice which all ought to follow even when the most do not As for the third Branch of this Query By what Authority c it comes in as if you could never ask it often enough But if I have not given you a sufficient Answer pray do you try to give a better if you can to this By what Authority do you censure the Sacraments and Rites of the English Church Quer. Whether Cranmer was the first Arch-Bishop of the Church of England The reason of my doubt is this because Archbiships of Canterbury for nine preceeding Ages were all Roman Catholicks If he was the first he wanted Episcopal Succession because being the first of his Sect he succeeded to none Then how could he be a lawful Pastor who had neither Succession Mission nor Miracles to recommend his New Doctrin I say New and strange at that time and for many Ages before Sect. 15 Answ He that affirms there were Roman Catholick Archbishops of Canterbury for Nine Ages before Cranmer and yet makes a doubt whether Cranmer were the first Archbishop of Canterbury or not shall doubt on for me If indeed Cranmer was the first Archbishop of Canterbury then as you say he wanted Episcopal Succession in the See of Canterbury that is he had no Bishops that were his Predecessors in that See because he was the first and I am very glad that you don't doubt of that too And yet I think there is as much reason to doubt of that as of the other But then you are come to an end of the first doubt presently for now you do not doubt but Cranmer was the first Archbishop tho' there were Archbishops for Nine Ages before him and wanted Episcopal Succession I suppose you do not care to stand doubting long upon a Matter But in the name of sence how can this be Why Because being the first of his Sect he succeeded none Notably spoken and all is now as plain as can be Because Cranmer was the First of his Sect in the See of Canterbury Therefore he was also the First of his Order for if there were no Archbishop of his Sect before him without all doubt there were no Archbishops before him at all And yet there were too therefore I begin to doubt this will prove but a bad business at last However Sir I give you many thanks for your Argument such as it is for the distinction which it proceeds upon we have been tugging for this hundred and fifty years and you at last have very civilly yielded it to us For in plain English you would prove that Cranmer wanted Episcopal Succession because he wanted Doctrinal Succession he was say you the First of his Sect and therefore he succeeded to none And again How could he be a lawful Pastor who had neither Succession c. to recommend his New Doctrin Now tho' I can by no means grant that want of Doctrinal Succession implies the want of Episcopal Succession nor will you neither when you have taken something to clear your Brain yet I do very thankfully acknowledge that to make a Good Pastor there ought not to be an Episcopal Succession only but a Doctrinal Succession also Now Cranmer we say received his Orders from the Bishops of his Age and his Episcopal Succession from his immediate Predecessor in the See of Canterbury and so upward Thus far now we are very well But then for his Doctrin for which you would make him the First of his Sect he took a far better course than as you would have had him to receive it for good and all from his immediate Predecessors for it was possible and upon trial he found it certainly true that his Predecessors had made a failure in Successon of Doctrin and innovated against the Antient Faith and Worship of the Christian Church He therefore went to the Records of the Primitive Church and to the Scriptures which are the most Antient of all and the only Infallible Rule of Faith by which he found and so may you if you have Grace to do it that some of those Bishops whom you speak of that went
the Character of a good Man whether they had the same Spirit of Sincerity and Piety and Charity and the like then according to this Notion I Answer That I verily believe they bad both the same Spirit notwithstanding that difference and consequently that the Spirit of the one as well as of the other was of God. Thirdly and Lastly This word Spirit is sometimes used to signifie a Persuasion concerning some Doctrin proceeding from the immediate Inspiration whether of the Good or the Evil Spirit And if the Question goes upon this meaning 't is an Impertinent Question for Luther and Calvin did not pretend to teach Doctrine from Immediate Imspiration but to Prove their Doctrine by the Scriptures But if you only meant to make some advantage to yourself from these two Mens disagreeing in a Matter which we must confess to be of Moment I only desire you to turn the Tables and to Answer these Queries Whether the Spirit of the Jesuites who say that the Pope is above a General Council and the Spirit of the Sorbon utterly denying it be the same Spirit Whether the Spirit of Thomas Aquinas affirming that the same Honour is to be given to the Image that is due to the Person represented by it or the Spirit of the Bishop of Meaux denying it be the same Spirit And not to be tedious Whether the Spirit of Innocent III. and his Lateran Council and of I know not how many more Popes and of Cardinal Perron and many more Cardinals affirming that Heretical Kings may and ought to be Deposed and the Spirit of our English Representer and those for whom he undertakes who all deny it be the same Spirit If not then both cannot be of God. Sect. 22 Quer. Was not John Calvin a most impudent Creature in assuming to himself the Office of Reforming the World being but a Young Man of Twenty five or Twenty six years of Age and without all pretence of Miracles a thing which Christ himself undertook not under Thirty years of Age Answ I think indeed Geneva may pass for the World by the same Figure that the Church of Rome goes for the Catholick Church When the World groans for a Reformation I do not see where lies the Impudence of trying by good Doctrine and Example to Reform that Part of it where one lives unless it lies in being Impudently and Bravely Good which is sometimes necessary to give a check to Impudence in that which is Bad. If he be a Young Man that takes this upon himself he is the more to be commended And if he can fairly carry the Reformation beyond his own Countrey this is still more commendable and if he could Reform the whole World then I say for that which you call Impudence Generations to come ought to rise up to his Name and call it Blessed You ought not I tell you to despise John Calvin's Youth as one of your Great Ones did Luther's Meanness who hearing the Auspurg Confession read said to his Confident That these things indeed were True but it was not to be endured that a pitiful Monk should Reform the World. But if nothing else will satisfie you but it must be Impudence in a Young Man to think of Reforming the place where he lives yet at least do not represent him as a most impudent Creature for as I take it there are a long row of Popes from Formosus downwards who if your own Historians are to be credited shall compare with John Calvin in this point not of Reforming the World but the other and shall get the better of him by much And amongst these there is one John XI Son to Sergius III. one of his Predecessors who was something less modest than John Calvin in as much as being yet but a Boy he took upon himself to be Head of the Catholick Church which our John I dare say would never have accepted any time of his life Indeed the young Pope was thus far to be excused that he was put into the Chair by Merocia who though she was not Sergius's Wife was yet John's Mother For Donna Olympia was not the first of her Quality that swayed all at Rome Sect. 23 Quer. Whether from the Womb of the Reformation have not issued all those Slaughters Rapines Tumults Plundering of Churches Schisms and Civil Wars which broke out in the year 1641. Answ No truly for since the Reformation the Church of England hath lent neither Principles nor Examples nor Counsels nor Arms nor Men nor Money to carry on Rebellions or Rapines The World saw that she stuck by her Royal Master to to the last And if you say that it was her Interest to do so then I hope you will grant that she has at other times given Proof of a higher Principle Nor can you without rubbing your Forehead question the strictness of her Loyalty who begin some of you to laugh at her for it I hope you will not say that the Irish Rebellion which broke the ice for all those Slaughters Rapines c. which you mention to come after it that that issued too from the womb of the Reformation I think this Query had better rest least when the Mother of that Off-spring is agreed upon we should be tempted to inquire who was the Father of it Sect. 24 Quer. Whether Africa produces more variety of Monsters than Britain does Fanaticks where every Man may read and interpret the Scriptures according to his own Judgment of Discretion Answ I know pretty well what Fanaticks Britain has produced but what variety of Monsters Africa produces I cannot well say the surest way to be satisfied is to go thither your self for Authors are not agreed But if by Fanaticks you mean False pretenders to Inspiration you may take your comparison nearer home where 't is as much as a Mans or Womans life is worth to have the Scriptures to read In short Britain has Fanaticks but the British Church does what she can to reclaim them which she thinks ought nor to be tried by setting up an Inquisition for some of 'em and cannot be done by making Saints of others of ' em You understand I suppose and therefore go on Sect. 25 Quer. Whether Queen Elizabeth born of Ann Bolen Queen Catharine yet living can be thought Legitimate Answ Without all Question she can be thought Legitimate for I find that I think so and I know many who say so that do not use to say one thing and think another Sect. 26 Quer. How admirable was the Wisdom of Henry the Eighth by expelling one Pope of Rome to raise up infinite Popes of his own Subjects Answ Not very admirable I confess if it were so for we had even too much of One Pope of Rome before as the Complaints and the Laws of our Ancestors can well witness But how did he raise up infinite Popes of his own Subjects Were there so many Heads of the Catholick Church raised by him in his own Dominions Or did every
What mean they by these words As well in all Spiritual as Temporal Things or Causes c. But that Protestants are sworn to yield to the King all manner of Obedience both Civil and Religious Are they not obliged therefore according to the Oath to become Catholicks with a Catholick King Calvinists with a Calvinist King Arians with an Arian I say according to this Oath because the Kings Majesty is the only Supreme Governor under Christ as well in all Spiritual as Temporal Causes which words confess in the King a Spiritual as well as Civil Jurisdiction But whence does his Spiritual Jurisdiction appear without the Power of the Keys Answ You have been as often told what we mean by these words As well in all Spiritual as Temporal Things or Causes as you have asked the Question but you would never take notice of the Answer nor make any exception to it and yet 't is an even wager that the next set of Queries which you intend to astonish us with brings this over again But once more you are desired to take notice of the meaning of our Church where 't is most plainly expressed viz. in Artic. 37. Title Of Civil Magistrates The Kings Majesty hath the chief Power in the Realm of England and other his Dominions unto whom the chief Government of all Estates of the Realm whether they be Ecclesiastical or Civil in all Causes doth appertain and is not nor ought to be subject to any foreign Jurisdiction Where we attribute to the King's Majesty the chief Government by which Titles we understand the Minds of some standerous folks to be offended we give not to our Princes the ministring either of Gods Word or of the Sacraments the which thing the Injunctions set forth by Elizabeth our Queen do most plainly testisie but that only Prerogative which we see to have been given always to all Godly Princes in Holy Scripture by God himself that is that they should Rule all Estates and Degrees committed to their charge by God whether they be Ecclesiastical or Temporal and restrain with the Civil Sword the stubborn and Evil Doers You see then our Church acknowledges the King to be Supreme Governor in all Causes and over all Persons Ecclesiastical viz. that no Quality in the Church nor cause of the Church exempts a Subject from the Secular Laws and the Sword of Justice which may be very true as it undoubtedly is and yet all manner of Obedience in Religious Matters shall not presently become due to the King. For when Sovereigns require their Subjects to do things contrary to true Religion if their Subjects give but one manner of Obedience to their Laws which goes with us under the name of Passive Obedience it saves at once their acknowledgment of the Sovereigns Supremacy over them and Gods Supremacy over All. So that we are not obliged by our Oath to become Calvinists with a Calvinist King nor Arians with an Arian King nor Roman Catholicks with such a King nor in a word to be of the Kings Religion but to submit to his Authority let his Religion be what it will. In short let the Persons or the Causes be what they will out Church acknowledgeth the King to be Supreme Governor in his Dominions he only having the Civil Sword. But now as for you that make the Pope the Head of the Catholick Church and Union to him necessary to your being a Member of it who laugh at us for that dependence which our Ecclesiasticks have upon the King and depend in effect for all the benefits of Christianity upon your Ecclesiastical Union to the Pope which is something more than the Article recognizes of our Sovereigns you I say would do well to tell us how you can avoid being Arians with a Pope Liberius or Monothelites with a Pope Honorius or No Image-Worshippers with a Pope Gregory I. or Image-Worshippers with a Pope Adrian I. Sect. 32 Quer. You will say the King is to be Obeyed so far as we may by the Laws of God and the Kingdom Be it so then it follows that the King is not Supreme Governor under Christ but the Laws of God and the Kingdom Answ To this silly Stuff I oppose a little plain Sense That the Laws of the Kingdom are not to be opposed to the Supremacy of the King whose Laws they are That the King is our Supreme Governor under God but that we know of no Supreme Governor that is to be Obeyed absolutely without any Limitation whatsoever but God himself Sect. 33 Quer. What if Controversies rise between the King and his Subjects about the True Sense of Scripture Who shall be Judge The Private Spirit or not Hence If am not mistaken came the Rise of our late Civil Wars Answ I dare say you are the first that ever found out the want of a Judge betwixt King and People to be the Rise of the late Civil Wars 'T is pity the Observation should be lost for 't is a notable one and would mend the History of those Times not a little But pray who should that Judge be to determine the True Sense of Scripture between the King and his Subjects The Pope without doubt And so we are gotten into the old Circle again For if they must take the Judgement of the Pope at a venture then any Man may be agreed upon to be the Judge and he will serve the turn as well as the Pope But if God has made the Pope Judge that indeed is another case But how shall we know it By the Scripture Who then must be Judge of the True Sense of Scripture with reference to the Question The Pope says 't is a plain case on his side But it may be neither the King says it nor his Subjects Who therefore must be the Judge between the King and the Pope or between his Subjects and the Pope Not the private Spirit for the World for thence come Wars So that the Pope must be Judge because the Scripture says so and the Scripture says so because the Pope must Judge Now if instead of Pope you put in Council you will find the Circle go as round with one as t'other Nor do I see how you can avoid it but by running out into the long line of a Judge upon a Judge without end which I gave you some warning of before To Conclude When you have tired yourselves with these frivolous Expedients for the Ending of Controversies do what you can you will find it best to come to that which you disgrace under the Name of a Private Spirit the Good use whereof is that which must do the business Men must be Honest and hearken to Instruction and love Truth and remember that the Day of Judgment is coming This you cannot deny to be the Duty of All. And if you and every Body else could be brought to it then about plain Things there would be no Controversie at all and those about Points that are indeed difficult might do
a great deal of Good but would be sure to do no Hurt at all either to the Church or to the World. Sect. 34 Quer. Why did so many Noble Men under Edward VI. and Queen Elizabeth so readily Embrace the Reformation Was 't for Conscience sake or the Lucre Church-Lands Answ The Noblemen under those Princes were generally for Wisdom Fortitude and Manners a Glory to their Age and Nation But now they are dead and gone and it will be time enough to know the Secret into which you are inquisitive when the Day of Judgment comes and till then I can be contentedly Ignorant whether it be for Conscience sake or the Lucre of Church-Lands that you wrote these Queries Sect. 35 Quer. Why do Englishmen so desirous of Novelties hate Popery Perhaps because Popery is no Novelty Answ If you are an Englisman methinks 't is no good sign of the Religion you are of that it has inspir'd you with the scorn and hatred of your own Countrymen to that degree as to spend a reproach upon them which all the World sees there is not the least appearance of Cause for Friend you took no little care to hedge in this Abuse when you were fain to turn Answerer to your own Query to compass it to your mind But as your Anger had been less so your Wit had been more to have let alone both Question and Answer for there is that in them to clear us from your Reproach You say we hate Popery because 't is no Novelty And yet neither we nor our Fathers nor our Grandfathers have professed or practised Popery and therefore in spite of your heart Popery must be a Novelty to us who consequently if we may be Judged of by this Instance are not so desirous of Novelties But if you had given us leave to Answer your Question Why we are not in love with Popery I should have Answer'd to this purpose That it is not so far a Novelty neither but tho' we are Strangers to the Profession of it yet we have so true an Idea of the Doctrines and Practices of your Church that yourselves are not able to deceive us into another Sect. 36 Quer. The Church of England is either Fallible or Infallible it Fallible as is confest by all then is she not sounded upon a Rock because she may deceive and be deceived Answ After all the exquisite Discourses that have been published upon this Subject It is what shall I call it to think that such a pitiful Argument as this is worth a Thought Try if you please this knotty piece of work upon your own dear self for no other Answer you shall have from me You Sir are either Fallible or Infallible if Fallible as I humbly conceive you are then you are not founded upon a Rock because you may deceive and be deceived But this Argument thus turned upon yourself is now I look upon it again a monstrous dull one I confess and that for proving you not to be built upon a Rock because you may be deceived when 't is so notorious that thou art all over actually deceived as thy lamentable Papet shews thee to be There is indeed a little life in that other part of the Argument that you may deceive for perhaps that is not very much more than possible so that I think this little pains I have taken might have been spared for I dare say there are very few whom You and your Queries will be able to deceive Sect. 37 Quer. Whether Cardinal Wolsey did wisely by Demolishing Monasteries to Found Colleges The reason of this doubt is because the Tree of Knowledge was not the Tree of Life Answ So so Monasteries were the Tree of Life and Colleges are the Tree of Knowledge Very neat and witty I promise you Hence forward we shall not want a Text to prove that Ignorance is the Mother of Devotion If Erasmus had not happened upon something like this in his Emcomium Moriae by my consent it should have been written upon your Tomb-stone Here lies the Author of this Query Whether Cardinal Wolsey c. But what have we to do with Cardinal Wolsey Or rather What have you to do to say any thing against him Was it a small matter for you to trample upon the Ashes of Cranmer that nothing will now serve you but to pirk over Wolsey's too I have taken your size Sir and must needs put you in mind that in you 't is want of Manners almost to Talk of Archbishops and Cardinals when you but Think of such Great Men as Wolsey and Cranmer the one a Cadinal of the Roman Church the other an Archbishop of Canterbury Men indeed of different Religions but both of extraordinary Abilities as well as high Station I say when you but hear them or such as they mentioned you should presently reflect upon your own little self and not dare to open your Mouth till Persons of much meaner Rank come into Discourse Sect. 39 Quer. Is there not wanting in the Church of England a more Correct Translation of the Bible Answ I warrant you expect that I should say I or No to this Query presently But in such a case a wise and honest Man must have the putting of the Question In few words I do by no means deny that the English Translation can be more Correct than it is After the exactest care 't is likely there will be some defect in so great a Work. But this we say that we need not a better Translation than it is and in particular that for the Skill and Fidelity that is shewn in it we will compare at any time with the Vulgar Latin. And therefore whereas you add Sect. 39 Quer. That many material Errors are found in our present English Bible tending to Schism and Liberty of the Flesh Answ I Answer That you are very much mistaken to say so which I will first shew against your Instances and then leave the Reader to say what other Name your importunity in this place deserves The First Instance you refer to is Gal. 5.17 For the Flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the Flesh and these are contrary one to the other so that ye cannot do the things that ye would Now I suppose the material Error in this Translation lies in these words so that ye cannot do which you would say ought to have been so that ye do not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To this I Answer That the words †will bear both Versions tho' I confess the latter seems to me to be more Grammatical The Reason I conceive why our Translators chose the former was that the following Verse seems to imply that in this Verse the Apostle speaks of those that are led by the Flesh who in that state cannot do the things which their Conscience prompts them to Now this I say is so far from being a material Error tending to Liberty of the Flesh that 't is no Error at all
without the least liberty of Paraphrase and word for word excepting only the addition of the necessary expletives to express an Interrogation in English But what do I trouble my self to find out some colour of a Fault when you set me to seek one The place concerns no manner of Controvssie between us And I am apt to think that you borrowed it out of a Book that was false printed and then had not judgment enough to correct it At last we have it seems corrupted Exod. 20.4 by putting the words Graven Image in the Second Commandment for is not that it you would have And pray why should we not do so since not only the Hebrew (c) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but even your own Vulgar has the same which you here confess to be Non facies tibi sculptile For what is a Graven Thing here but a Graven Image Oh but this word Sculptile is by the Seventy Interpreters translated Idol Thou hast a lucky Brain Belike then the Seventy had the Vurgar Latin before them and followed it in this place To what purpose is it to spend time upon such stuff as this Look Sir this is the short of the Business the Septuagints Translation is Good and the Vulgar Translation is Good and that because it will hold good to the Worlds end that Graven Images or any likenesses whatever that are worshiped are Idols not excepting the Picture of our Saviour if we had it which I do not say in hatred of the Picture of our Saviour unless I must needs hate every thing which I do not worship But I know no necessity of that for I am far enough from worshipping your own self and yet I cannot find in my heart to hate you But I wish you well and shall therefore give you a little good advice Do not for the future as I hinted to you before meddle with Kings or Queens Cardinals Archbihops or Noblemen for they are Persons too high for you nor with the Septuagint or the comparing of Originals and Translations as I add now for these are things too high for you too And for the same Reason meddle no more between Churches trouble your Head no more about Questions relating to Holy Orders Mission Succession and the Power of Reformation Give not your self to Controversies and above all things write no more Queries And if this distemper be once cured I 'll not despair but that your Ingenuity may direct you to an Imployment more suitable to your capacity so that you may be able to give a tolerable Account of the Time. Farewel FINIS ERRATA PAge 14. line 3. for using read useâ—â— P. 15. l. 8 f. appears r. approves P. 45. l. 2. f. due r. subâ—â—â— P. 47. l. last f. the r. your Books lately Printed for James Adamson I. Mr. Chillingworth's Book called The Religion of Protestants a safe way to Salvation made more generally useful by omitting Personal Contests but inserting whatsoever concerns the common Cause of Protestants or defends the Church of England with an exact Table of Contents and an Addition of some genuine Pieces of Mr. Chillingworth's never before printed viz. against the Infallibility of the Roman Church Transubstantiation Tradition c. And an Account of what moved the Author to turn Papist with his Confutation of the said Morives Quarto II. Two Discourses of Purgatory and Prayers for the Dead in Quarto III. The Present State of the Controversie between the Church of England and the Church of Rome Or an Account 〈◊〉 the Books written on both sides in a Letter to a â—â—end in Quarto IV. A Treatise of the Celibacy of the Clergy wherein its Rise and Progress are Historically considered in Quarto V. Clementis Epistolae duae ad Corinthos Interpretibus Patricio Jâ—â—lio Gothifredo Vandelino Joh. Bapt. Coteleâ—io Recensuit notarum spicilegium adjecil Paulus 〈◊〉 â—â—esius Bibliothecae Lambethanae curator Accedit Tâ—â— Brunonici Windsoriensis discertatio de Therapeutis Philonis His subnexae sunt Epistolae aliquot singulares vel nunc primum editae vel non ita facilè obviae in Quato VI. The Travels of Monsieur de Thevenot into the Levant in Three Parts viz. 1. Into Turky 2. Persia 3. The East Indies in Folio