the Roman Church For Saint Gregory vpon the 6. of Ezechiel said If the vnderstanding of holy scripture were playne to all men it would come in time to bee of no reckoning Where hee giueth a reason of that obscurity that is in it Who yet vpon the 6. of Iob more atfull interpreteth his owne meaning thus Sacra scriptura cibus est in locis obscurioribus quia quasi exponendo frangitur et mandendo glutitur Potus vero est in locis apertioribus quià ita sorbetur sicut invenitur The holy Scripture is Meate in the more obscure places because in the expounding thereof it is broken as it were and in chewing swallowed Drinke it is in the more perspicuous places because it is as easily swallowed downe as it is found Thus the doctrine and beliefe of the Roman Church was sometime Scripture in some places is hard in some places easie Hath that Church now forsaken her former faith if not we differ not for we maintaine the easinesse of holy Scripture no otherwise then Saint Gregory the Pope did This Goose may fit the Gagge for his Ganders mouth the Gospell will soone enough be rid of it II. That in matters of faith wee must not relye vpon the iudgement of the Church and of her Pastors but onely vpon the written Word I Know no such tenent exclusiuely I know no such Assertion negatiuely the Church of England hath no such faith as this You set vp a Shawfoule for a marke and shoot your bolt at it your selfe alone In our 11. Article put on your spectacles and see if you can reade it we professe The Church hath authority in controuersies of Faith The written word of God is the Rule of Faith with vs. And hath beene so with all our Fathers of old Vnto the Law and vnto the Prophets was a direction of a perpetuall Morallity and is continued in that of our Sauiour Ioh. 5. Search the Scriptures for in them you hope to haue eternall life A rule absolute in it selfe a rule most sufficient vnto vs for that end entended To make the man of God perfect in euery good worke Sufficiunt sanctae et diuinitus inspiratae scripturae saith Athanasius ad omnem institutionem veritatis Truth is of two sorts amongst men manifest and confessed truth or more obscure and inuolued truth In his quae aperte posita sunt in scripturis inveniâ—ntur illa omnia quae continent fidem moresque viuendi spem scilicet charitatem Plainely deliuered in Scripture are all those poynts which belong vnto Faith and manners Hope and Charity to wit And accordingly I doe know no obscurity vpon these I know none of these controuerted inter partes the Articles of our Creede are confessed on both sides and held plaine enough The controuerted poynts are of a larger and an inferiour alloy of them a man may be ignorant without any danger of his soule at all A man may resolue or oppose this way or that way without perill of perishing for euer Now if a question be moued iuris controuersi in controuerted matters who shall decide and settle the doubt you say The Church and so say I nay so say we You say wee say the Scriptures but without the Church that is each priuate mans opinion and interpretation of the Scriptures euen against the Church No such thing Sir you mistake vs. We say the Church must doe it explaining declaring resoluing the Scriptures as the direction is from God himselfe to purpose Deut. 17. 8. and as your Texts and Fathers doe pretend it and no otherwise And yet the Scripture may well be called iudge As the Law determineth Controuersies betwixt man and man In plaine cases iuris positiui no deciding Iudge or legall proceeding shall neede But such as are iuris ambigui controuersi must be determined by the Court by the Iudge according vnto Law So is it in Scripture according to the Protestants opinion In points of Faith they disclaime not the iudgement of the Church nor yet appeale to Scripture alone vnderstood by themselues without a iudge but referre it vnto the Church And they haue reason for it enough seeing Gods Word and the ancient practise of the Catholike Church that is both Law and Iudge are both for them In the name of the Church of England I will be tried thereby and maintaine it against all Papists liuing Take one for all Cyril of Hierusalem in his fourth Catechisme saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In any poynt concerning the diuine and holy mysteries of our Faith not any the least thing must be tendred without warrant of diuine Scripture And he addeth Belieue mee not that speake and deliuer these things vnto you vnlesse for proofe of them I doe bring plaine and euident demonstration out of diuine Writ Was this man a Protestant or a Papist Those Bibles he had then which we haue now and it seemeth that addressing his owne beliefe and doctrine accordingly varied not in iudgement any whit from vs who make Scripture the rule of our beliefe And in doubtfull poynts that require determination appeale vnto the Catholique Church for iudgement in that Rule This is not contrary to any deduction from much lesse to the expresse words of our owne Bible Matt. 23. 2. The Scribes Pharises sit in Moses Chaire all therfore whatsoeuer they bid you obserue that obserue and doe Therefore c. Doe you finde eyther Faith or Iudgement Pastors or Church expresly named in this text Looke once more and looke back vpon your vndertaking Their refutation by expresse words of their owne bible For words expresse you faile vndertaking more than you can performe an ordinary tricke of Catholike Braggadochioes Let vs see if Consequents will hold the tewghing any better Those that answere the Church and her Pastors in your Thesis are the Scribes Pharises in your proofe who whole and some head and taile be Doctors and Pastors of the Church with you But of the Church of Rome it must be supposed for wee disclaime any Conformation at all with them And doe you suppose that our Sauiour approued them so well as that hee would haue had the Iewes in matters of Faith to relye vpon them and their decisions as Pastors of the Church in points of Faith If this were his meaning what meant he then to giue warning elsewhere Take heede of the leauen of the Pharises that is as the holy Ghost expoundeth it Of their doctrine If the question had bin put Art thou the Christ would he haue sent them vnto the Scribes or Pharises for resolution or aduised the people to belieue on them we finde it not practised the contrary we doe What then is this text in consequence vnto the poynt Surely hee meant no more but this and in that hee will declare himselfe a Protestant Whatsoeuer they bid you obserue out of Moses obserue that is so long as they teach but Scripture they must he heard if there they faile
A Gagg for the new GOSPELL NO A NEW GAGG FOR An OLD GOOSE VVho would needes vndertake to stop all PROTESTANTS mouths for euer with 276. places out of their owne English BIBLES OR AN ANSVVERE to a late Abridger of Controuersies and Belyar of the PROTESTANTS Doctrine By Richard Mountagu Published by AVTHORITIE LONDON Printed by Thomas Snodham for Matthew Lownâ—â— and William Barret 1624. To the READER PROTESTANT or Papist English or Romish Catholique Christian if thou be though to all or any I intend what I write yet I will not presse thee â—o peruse the Treatise ensuing for I am indifferent whether thou doe or no. Nor would I haue so much as troubled thy Patience with a Preface it being not tanti which the Gagger hath grated vpon but that being put vpon such a copesmate I was of conueniency to acquaint thee first with three things My vndertaking then my performing and the motiue of the Second his deseruing What moued mee to meddle with this Gagger In what sort I thought fit to arrest him wherefore I haue dealt with him in such sort And first for the first be pleased to know That I coped not with him voluntarily nor thrust my self forward of my own accord out of a desire to be doing I haue other employments of much more behoof to better purpose my greater benefit euery way or if I had none pater aÌ„ has hâ—r as non sic per dere I professe I would neuer be so idle but could more pleasingly and profitably spend my time then in catching or killing of Flyes But be pleased to heare a story Reader which put me on this posture and performing And thus it was About some two yeares since as I remember some of our Catholique Limitors had beene roming and rambling in the Countrey and brake into my pale secretly at my Parish of Standford-Riuers in Essex and according as commonly their custome is that you may know of what companions Saint Paul entended his Leading silly women captiues fell in with some one at least of the subordinate and weaker sexe indeauouring to make Proselytes of my neighbours wiues Now you know their ordinary onsets with great Out-cries of Damned Heretickes out of the Church No Seruice no Sacraments no Ministery no Faith no Christ no Saluation Terrible Shawe-fowles to skarre poore Soules that haue not the facultie of discerning Cheese from Chalk Horrible affrights and mormolyceues to put young children out of their wits that cannot distinguish a visnomie indeed from a visour So it fell out that a neighbour of mine with whom in this sort they had beene tampering became not a little dismayed and perplexed with these bug-beares of great names and thunderings in her eares till it came at length vnto my knowledge what was done I let her know they were but scarr-crowes meere words and wind bragges and boastings and so setled her disquieted thoughts againe But yet it seemeth they left not so The Diuell hath a name Belzebub the God of flyes expressing his nature like a flye insolent importune pressing on though he fall off to day hee will re-enforcce to morrow though he faile to day he will assay to morrow and still hope to preuaile at last So These as He came on againe though euer by owle-light For they came to steale and therefore feared blaunchers I could not come to God-speed nor to confront them But this I did When next you meete with these Romish Rangers commend me to them said I vnto my neighbour Tell them I much desire to bee acquainted with them I was borne bred and brought vp professed in the Religion of the Church of England which I hitherto haue thought to be the truth held and taught as the truth if I haue beene deceiued and haue deceiued others I am sorry for it my desire is to know and professe the Truth to waue heresie to quit error to goe out of schisme to finde out the true Church of Christ and become a member of it and so consequently by all possible meanes to saue my Soule If then their intention be such sincerely as they pretend it is To saue Soules they may doe a meritorious deed to come and saue mine the rather because they may goe compendiously to worke in gaining mee to the side who am like enough to draw you my Parishioners with me at least to make you more seasable then otherwise you would be for them But it seemed canebam sur dis I beleeue if the relation was made as I think it was they gaue no great credit to my words or had lesse hope of their performance For the truth is the most of these Limitors are but poore Ignaroes take them out of their beaten paths they cannot hold pace Wherefore seeing I could not tell where to finde them and they would not finde me where they might haue me I thought to send after them to know their mindes to vnderstand their opinions and see what they would say to winne mee vnto their Catholiqne faith So I tooke pen and paper and wrote as I thought fit three Propositions promising conformity vpon resolution to this effect and I suppose in these tearmes 1 If any Papist lining or all the Papists liuing can proue vnto me that the present Roman Church is eyther the Catholique Church or a sound member of the Catholique Church I will subscribe 2 If any Papist liuing or all the Papists liuing can proue vnto me that the present Church of England is not a true member of the Catholique Church I will subscribe 3 If any Papist c. can proue vnto mee that all those points or any one of those points which the Church of Rome maintaineth against the Church of England were or was the perpetuall Doctrine of the Catholique Church the concluded Doctrine of the representatine Church in any generall Councell or Nationall approued by a Generall or the dogmaticall resolution of any one Father for 500. yeares after Christ I will subscribe And to these seuerally I set my name which I did to try their sufficiencies or abate their insolencies and to settle the wauering vpon those goodly pretenses of Antiquity Vniuersality and Conformity I am sure I come home to them and touch them in their freehold as they claime it I giue them scope enough to insist vpon If they can performe this I will not eate my words I make it now publicke which I then said in priuate let them performe it I will subscribe These three Propositions thus conceiued signed I then deliuered vnto my neighbour the partie that should haue beene proselyted intreating her to deliuer them vnto those her perswaders if they came again as she thought they would This she promised and at their next meeting accordingly performed within few dayes I expected I confesse some great vndertaker and some mighty opposition to purpose in points of that Nature which touched them so neere and came vp to the head of their Catholique cause
of Scripture or thereabout It seemeth strange vnto me that not one of these should fall foule vpon that infinite number of corruptions and falsifications which you talke so freely and loudly of vnto your Catholike Reader Had there beene any such thing to be discouered your charity wee know is no way so Transcendent as to conceale it wee should haue heard thereof on both eares to a purpose He can doe little that can not belye his aduersary in grosse though put him to proofe and he prooueth recreant Do this I challenge your Gagship if you can or dare or prooue your selfe a Gagler and a Goose for euer For variety of reading deprauation corruption falsification here I offer to charge and prooue your most Sacrosanct Authenticall edition of Trent in the best and most corrected copy you can choose is as guilty of at and euery one of these particulars as you or your betters can proue our Bibles to be When you will or when you dare vndertaken it shall be And this in my mind is but a cold comfort vnto a Catholike who opineth poore deceiued soule that hee may be secure and build his saluation vpon the facing impudency of euery light-skirt mountebanck and shaued emposter You do well to seale vp the truth and vprightnesse of this forlorne cause of yours with security and assurance that is to captiuate their vnderstanding with implicite faith For you know and I can make it good that let the Truth you talke of come to scanning Lucians true History will be as warrantable It is true I deny not our translations all and singular and so your owne done by your owne men differ both amongst themselues as also from the Authenticall Latin as you call it notoriously your Authenticall Latin differeth from it selfe Is this to the disparagement darkning and obscuring of the Catholike verity Looke you to that I can rid my hands of it well enough and cleere both our Church aâ—d Bibles of all such imputation or impeachment of Catholike verity any way If it bring such disparagement the reason is in my conceit you swarued euen from the Councell of Trent which neuer intended such a royal prerogatiue vnto your Latin edition as the Iesuits and Iesuited faction giue vnto it I speake not this to disparage it I professe I respect it as much as any Translation extant and to quite your kindnesse in being content to be tryed by our Bibles I will be tryed in any point the Church of England maintaineth this day against the Church of Rome by no other but your owne Authenticall Latin Eate your words Goodman Gagger I am your aduersary I professe my selfe I will and dare offer my selfe to giue what aduantage you can make thereof to be tryed by your owne Translation and to deserue your loue the more may happily ere long Gagge your mouth in this very kind of putting you to it with your owne translation In the interim put mee to it when you please I will not waue your so Authenticall Latin in maintaining the assertions of our Church And so much for your second point of aduice vnto your Reader Thirdly you aduise him somewhat farther off for generall affronting the Protestant in any point whatsoeuer as I can conceiue it in briefe thus The manner of the Protestant is in conference of controuerted points when he is vrged with text of Scripture plaine and euidens to beate backe the argument or as you phrase the thing to Counterpoint it with some other text of Scripture For instance when you bring those euident few words This is my body they vse to rebutt it with Iohn 6. 63. The flesh profiteth nothing the words that I speake vnto you they are spirit and they are life and by this allegation suppose they haue put by the point of your weapon or giuen you a great ouerthrow as you speake In such a case your aduice is to shew the party amiably that this is not to proceede by order and that he dealeth not with thee as he ought nor sincerely in opposing a passage darke and obscure to confound a passage that is most cleere A man may take good counsell of his enemy though against his will and so haue no cause to thanke him for it Sir Gagger of your selfe and your owne gagle this aduice we meane to make vse of and put it home to your selues as we haue occasion frequent enough I know no men guilty of this blameable carriage at least so guilty as your selues be I haue rubbed your memory with it sometime as it fell out But here hauing so iust cause you can not blame me if I gagge you with your owne gagge Misticall passages are not argumentatiue What so mysticall as the Reuelation In which are tot Sacramenta as many darke passages as there by words And yet we want not proofes of plainer particulars from mysticall signing in the forehead The number of the beast Power giuen to the Saints ouer nations What more absurd then to prooue ordinary oeconomy in Gods disposition by extraordinary dispensation This you haue done out of Math. 17. 3. Math. 27. 52. or points of faith as you would haue them out of a dreame 2 Mac. 15. 12. Prayer vnto Saints is defined in your Creed Your proofes for that against euident scripture Psal 51. 15. are Luk. 16. 24. Iob 5. 1. Without Purgatory Popery cannot stand The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 two pillars of Purgatory are those two places of S. Paul 1 Cor. 3. 13. 1 Cor. 5. 29. then which there are not two more obscure places in all the scripture Adde to them a third though of a baser alloy that intricate and depraued place of 2. Mach. 12. 44. I could goe further and gagge you Doper out of your owne practise Who if you had not so much honesty as to forbeare belying of your opposites should haue had so much discretion as not to obiect that vnto another which had you that good signe of a bad cause in you Blushing might ashame you being by recrimination retorted vpon your selfe I say belye for it is not better nor worse but euen so For Transubstantiation that monster of monsters you haue neuer done with This is my body Which we deny not either in words or sense The very body of Christ really receiued in the Sacrament of the Altar is warranted by those formall words of Institution This is my body but not per modum Con or Trans or any other like It is not said This is my body corporally eaten orally there carnally conceiued of grossely This cannot be say the Protestants and for proofe thereof that the thing being granted the manner cannot be so conceiued proceedeth thus That which one Scripture proposeth cannot bee contraried by another But this carnall sense of those words This is my body is contraried by another an instance In Iohn 6. 63. The flesh profiteth nothing as plaine a text against carnall eating of Christs flesh as can
are old enough the Church is not tyed nor any man that I know to make good their priuate imaginations Nor can or ought the seuerall fancies of men to be imputed vnto the authorized and approued Doctrine of the Church A fault more then ordinary with you Papists to charge the Church of England with euery priuate opinion that any man holdeth in our Church though he be singular and alone For my selfe I professe ingenuously I am not of opinion that the Bishop of Rome personally is that Antichrist that Vrban the VIII or Gregory the XV or Paul the V. were Antichrist though Pauls name Borghesie before he was Pope written in Greek St Iohns Language doth make 666. the number of the Beast Nor yet that the Bishops of Rome Successiuely are that Antichrist so spoken of An Antichrist I hold him or them carrying themselues as they doe in the Church either as the word hath hitherto beene taken for one that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against Christ or according to the new tricke and deuice of some for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in stead or place of Christ Rather in this point I should encline vnto that opinion of many Protestant Diuines that for the State Antichristian the Turke and Pope together may seeme to make it and for the Person some one notorious varlet aboue the rest Thus Zanchius and others so Melanthon Draconites vpon Daniel Oecolampadius vpon the same Hiperius vpon the second Epistle to the Thessalonians Zanchius in Miscellan Lambert in Apocal. Zegedynus in Locis Grynaeus in praefat Eiusdem Libri and a Disputation at Geneua 1589. vnder Faius I say rather this way then the other though for full resolution I cannot resolue for either but professe my ignorance in such mysteries and therefore as is fitting 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and craue pardon But had I no greater cause to refraine from concluding then your wise worshipfull reasons Sir Gagger I should conclude as peremptorily as any Papa est ipsissimus Antichristus Your Texts are not expresse they are not euictiue nor conuincing 2 Thes 2. 3. He is called That man of sinne the sonne of perdition Your inference is hereupon thus The words Man of sinne and sonne of Perdition being singular doe plainly proue that a succession of men as the Popes are cannot be this man of sinne For so Saint Peter also should be Antichrist for he was Pope and the very first of all the Popes So your good Gossips long since reasoned in this point but idely all and you more Though the words be singular and personall Man of sinne and Sonne of Perdition yet followeth not that the subiect is one Person they may denote a body For any Corporation though collected out of Pluralities is a totum and so but one and so singular in it selfe The Prophecies of Iacob for Iudah and his other Sonnes runneth precisely in singular and personall termes yet your selfe I thinke are not so sencelesse as to fasten them all vnto the Persons of the Patriarchs The Man of sin is personall in termes I grant but the designation may be a collectiue vnity a Corporation a Succession A sinfull man a wicked generation an impious body and an Antichristian State You haue read in the Psalmes That the man of the Earth be no more exalted against them And againe For man goeth about to deuoure me Some priuate man the Prophet meant by your reason no Company combination or society of men For The words Man and Man of the Earth being singular doe plainely proue that he could not intend any priuate man this is your reason for the Pope As for Saint Peters being then a limbe of Antichrist because he was Pope and the first of Popes I answere that he was none of Antichrists members because he was first For the Spring is good and wholsome where the streame is muddy bitter or vnwholsome the foundation good where the building is ruinous the first most regular where Succession is not Those that hold the Pope Antichrist neuer imagined all Popes to be so but the defection of Popes since the falling away either from the Faith or from the Roman Empire or rather indeede from both So that Saint Peter though Bishop of Rome and a Pope and many other succeeding him in that See cannot be included within the pale of Antichrist although it be pleaded that the Pope is Antichrist and resolued so Reuel 13. 18. The holy Spirit giueth both you and others good aduise Qui operta sacri supparo silentij irrumpere audent Let him that hath vnderstanding count the number of the Beast for it is the number of a man I cannot tell certainely what is meant by that number of a man You can it should seeme but this I can tell as I haue told you already that a man doth not euer and necessarily imply a particular and singular man For the name of Christ is as particular rather more singular than the name of man and yet your owne directors acknowledge it is attributed vnto any and all that haue any similitude or resemblance vnto him as Prophets Kings Priests And your last Text to be seene is 1 Iohn 2. 22. where hee is a lyer that denieth Iesus that denieth the Father and the Sonne is Antichrist and yet I hope no singular man necessarily Therefore the great Antichrist may not be a particular man XI That none but God can forgiue or retaine Sinnes SInnes are forgiuen two wayes by power originall and authority by deriued power and delegation God alone and none but God doth or can forgiue sinnes the first way against whom onely sinnes are committed Psalm 51. Against thee onely haue I sinned and therefore Esay 43. 25. I am hee that blotteth out iniquities for my selfe In this sence the Pharises did not erre Luke 5. Who can forgiue sinnes but God alone In this sence it is true and truely maintayned None but GOD can forgiue or retaine sinnes Verum dicunt Scribae The Scribes say true faith venerable Bede No man can forgiue sinnes but God alone And hee doth forgiue them by the ministery of those men to whom hee hath giuen power to forgiue them by actiue delegation Hee hath giuen power vnto men to doe that wee professe and maintaine The Priest hath power and authoritie from God to forgiue sinnes in as ample manner as hee can receiue it So your Fathers and Scriptures may well be spared and haue beene kept by you in store against a dearer time Your owne director Controu 9. hath these words to our aduantage and acquittall and your confusion Hereunto is also pertinent the doctrine of those Protestants who hold That Priests haue power not onely to pronounce but to giue remission of sinnes That hold most of the forenamed authors and others very many Yes it seemeth to be the doctrine of the Communion Booke in the visitation of the sicke where the Priest saith And by his authoritie committed vnto mee I absolu◠thee
so that the man fighteth with his shadow and taketh a ferne bush for a Foxe to hunt As idle in allegation of his Fathers as impertinent in his Texts of Scripture For these places of August Hierome and Ambrose produced by this iugler to be seene are meerely for another matter and so to that end recited by his instructor C. W. B. a man of more learning and better iudgement to proue that all the best workes of the righteous are not sinnes but truly good workes as proceeding out of a good roote That man had this fellow beene but a gagler would haue afforded him Fathers enough from Ignatius along for many ages to purpose as is specified in this point And yet Ignatius wrote in Greeke and could not vnderstand merit and those that wrote in Latine did vse the word but with no such intent as is supposed nor as is put vpon them by these later Tormentors of other mens meaning The Fathers who vse it tooke vp the word as they found it in ordinary vse and custome with men in those times not for to deserue which in our Language implyeth merit ex condigno but to incur to procure to purchase as Tacitus hath it in the life of Agricola Iijs virtutibus iram Caij Caesaris meritus est By these vertues he incurred the anger of Caius Caesar Which vse of the Tongue the inferior Ages mistaking haue built vp I know not what great Towers of Babel vnto themselues in contestation with and presumption against GOD which the ancient Fathers neuer dreamed of whose ioynt vnaminous and orthodoxall Doctrine is that which we will remember in Leoes words Non de qualitate nostrorum operum pendet coelestium mensura donorum In conclusion touching good workes the Church of England considereth them two wayes Artic. 12. 13. First as they are or may be done before Iustification had and obtained done by men meerely naturall and in the state of alienation from God and then as they are done after Regeneration by the inspiration and assistance of Gods Spirit Concerning the first Workes done before the grace of Christ saith Artic. 13. and the inspiration of his Spirit are not pleasing vnto God for as much as they spring not of Faith in Iesus Christ neither doe they make men meet to receiue Grace or as the Schoole Authors say deserue Grace of congruity Yea rather for that they are not done as God hath willed and commanded them to be done we doubt not but they haue the nature of sinne And so our Conclusion is Good workes thus and in this sort merit not at all vnlesse you meane Hell and Gods wrath For good workes done after Iustification which onely and alone are indeed good workes The Church of England in the 12 Artic. concludeth thus 1. They spring from a true and liuely Faith 2. They declare a true and liuely Faith 3. They are pleasing and acceptable to God 4. They cannot put away our sinnes nor endure the seuerity of Gods iudgement to wit not of themselues considered in themselues no not as issuing from their Fountaine Faith because Rem 〈…〉 ssion is in Christ gratuitum and pardon must preceede before that they can succeede Touching their merit and desert here is concluded nothing but the meaning of the Church in the Doctrine of her Schooles is directly this That the workes of Gods Saints in Faith and Charity are rewardable here and in the World to come both in generall as good workes and in particular as such good workes some more some lesse according to measure and proportion it being a rule in Nature and Grace both that whatsoeuer is receiued is receiued as the Donce can receiue it not as the Donor can conferre it Which procuring of reward at Gods hand both for things Temporall and Eternall the phrase of Antiquity hath called merit vpon the vse of the Tongue in those dayes and no otherwise though much mistaken afterward XX. That faith once had cannot be lost THere is no such Conclusion or Article tendred vnto the Church of England or resolued of vnto vs as of Faith Opinions haue varied and may keepe at large each one contenting himselfe with his owne priuate sobeit hee disturbe not the peace of the Church nor impose his priuate iudgement to be held of all It is held by some I grant that iustifying Faith that excellent gift of God is not conferred vnto any but to the Elect and predestinated vnto life The wicked that perish eternally from God as they neuer were in the state of Grace so neuer were they indued with true Faith Secondly as consequent hereunto that Faith once had cannot be lost or shaken out or off wholy from man but continueth inextinguible indefeisable And therfore thirdly those that once haue been indowed with that Transcendent guift are sure to be saued eternally nor cease to be and stand â—ustified before God These are opinions and defended but not of all Protestants not of the Church of England but opposed and refelled at home abroad as this fellow cannot but know if he know any thing in these points which for the maior part are fitter for Schooles then popular discourses and may be held or not held without heresie either way That Faith once had the propounded Conclusion cannot be lost may be interpreted and is moe wayes then one Whether not lost at all whether totally or finally lost Men are diuided in this Tenent Some suppose neither totally nor finally Some totally but not finally Some both totally and finally Which is indeed the assertion of Antiquity and your Schoole Some perceyuing the current of iudgements for the losse thereof totally and finally and considering also at least probability of Scripture consenting put in a new distinction of God and Man of the first and second causes of Faith and Iustification In regard of Man his weakenesse insufficiency and opposition against him in respect of second causes concurring in this action Faith once had may be lost they say But in regard of God considering his counsell and purpose vnchangeable reflecting on his absolute decree irreuersable faith once had cannot totally or finally be lost nor they perish eternally that were endowed therewith Now which of all these waies will you vnderstand the position Faith had may be lost For my part I know your meaning well enough but you should haue explayned it and not haue couertly rested in ambiguities You meane it may be lost totally and finally in regard of God who made no such absolute irreuersable decree as also in respect of second causes in man both without him and about him and against him I determine nothing in this Question positiuely which the Church of England leaueth at libertie vnto vs though the learnedst in the Church of England assent vnto Antiquity in their Tenent which the Protestants of Germany maintaine at this day hauing assented therein vnto the Church of Rome in the Diot at Ralisbone by Bucer and others vpon these
and so began to compose my selfe against expected aduersaries of some performance at least But many weekes many months passed eighteene at least and I heard no noise of those Hereticke-quellers my great Masters who cease not yet to call for disputation At length after much expectation vpon the fifth of October last the same partie premised presenteth mee at once with two seuerall presents The one two sheets of Paper written in haste not fully out with two seuerall hands The Scribe was some puny-nouice in euery point of Scrib-ship For neither could hee tell how to vse or dispose his points nor yet how to spell his words I haue the Originall by mee to shew Any man that readeth it will many times be to seeke to make sense or English of it The Dictator if yet the Author and writer were diuided subscribed himselfe yours in Christ Iesus A. P. a silly man God knoweth as euer talked idly of the Catholique Church the head of the Church the Masse Confession and Purgatory For his discourse beside some â—â—urrility without wit or â—artnesse of my Worship Doctorship c. smattered a little but very poorely and at randome vpon these points but concerning or vnto my Propositions 〈◊〉 my quidem Lucilianum the Innocent meant mee no hurt therefore he bit not Marry he had a cleanly put-off for that thus Hee desireth me at my going to London to repaire vnto Master May his house these are my friend A. P. s own words in Holburne in Partridge-alley A man that I neuer knew nor saw nor heard of albus an ater I cold not tell nor happily should haue knowne in hast but by his relation From him I haue it that Hee was not long since a Minister but is now become a Catholique In good time through discontent perhaps or ambition or some such ordinarie motiue of such Turne-coates My imployment thither was for Satisfaction if yet I had beene sure thereof For I had some cause of doubt in that which followeth If hee will not satisfie you at least he will procure some body else If he will not but what if he cannot Then from Partridge-ally I might happily bee posted to Woodcocke-walke and thence flushed to Fooles-wharfe and so returne home as wise as I went out But secondly to preuent or supply the worst beside and with his two sheets of Paper my good friend A. Pe. out of Curtefie addressed vnto me for my better Edification a pretty little whip-iacke of lesse then ordinary assise in a blew iacket marked in the fore-head with A Gagge for the new Gospell whose worship vntill then was as little knowne to me de nomine as was Master Mâ—â— He was sent with this Elogium and Inuitation at least If you please to answere this little booke and so explicate all the places of Scriptures and Fathers which are cited in it it will be a good worke fit for a Doctor of Diuinity here my friend shot at rouers I am not the man for Doctor of Diuinity I am none And I doubt not but by searching out of these points you wil be of another minde as many of your coate haue beene when they went sincerely and for the loue of God and their own soules adde and somewhat else vnto their studies So hee in his missiâ—es of October vnto me Thus briefly as I could I haue related the occasion of my engagement in this gagling with the Gagger Those Papers I answered presently as I thought fit and left the answere to be returned vnto A. P. who promised to call for it within three dayes but came not within threescore as I am informed if yet he haue come for it I cannot tell The Gagge I tooke to taske vpon my returne vnto my bookes at Windsor as meere a gaggler as euer grased vpon a greene Many idle Pamphlets in this very kinde haue I seene in my dayes but a verrier idiota saw I neuer any With a strange opinion of their owne worth are these Catholicks possessed This poore silly Creature thought Himselfe somebody and his Performings no ordinary Aduenture else sure hee would not so haue proscribed his pamphlet the Gagge of the new Gospell which necessarily implyeth thus much Hee hath stopped the months of all Protestants for euer the proudest of them dare not hiscere hereafter against Himselfe or any one of his Lagg but as geese when they goe in at a barne dore or are driuen on by night a long staffe or pole being held ouer them goe without noise or reluctancy holding downe their heads so the appalled Protestants being crest-fallen and cast downe for euer must goe as this Gagger will dispose of them My friend A. P. sic mulus mulum scabit was well perswaded of this mans performance and irresistable ability when hee sent him to me to conuert me being assured I could say little to him no not so much as bough to a Goose as for Answere him it went beyond my possibility For this set the iury consider but for Conuersion no such matter I assure him his assurance hath failed here I am more confirmed then euer I was in my Protestant profession through his insufficiency Nay had I not been a Protestant he would haue made me one through his poore performing of what he had vndertooke vpon view Whatsoeuer he intended whatsoeuer he hath said was by Him and His addressed not against Iohn a Noke and Iohn a Style this man and that man of the Protestant partie not against priuate tenents and peculiar opinions For what hath the world to doe to take publique notice of them as they are singular so let them stand or fall Salus Ecclestae non vertitur in istis the Church will stand and subsist without them but hee driued directly at the Church of England that moate in the eyes of Romish Priests and Iesuites For though he set his booke to saile with generall commendations A briefe abridgement of the errors of the Protestants of our times and so may seeme to enclose our neighbours abroad yet his drift was directly against vs at home against the Doctrine and Discipline of oâ—â— Church Therfore he wrote in the English tongue alone Therefore his addresse is to The Protestants that are in England onely Therefore he talketh of our English translations and in precise words instituteth his Refutation by Expresse words of our owne English Bibles which confine his Gagge to vs alone that are of that Church for English Bibles belong to English men Strangers haue their owne in their owne Mothers tongue they vnderstand not ours which concerne them not at all Now in point of carriage against the Church of England in his Refutation of our Churches errors in gagging vp our mouthes for defence thereof for euer see the small honesty little sincerity and petty performing of this Gagler In all Churches that are or haue beene vnder heauen euen in the Chutch of Rome it selfe at this day notwithstanding the conclusions of the Councell of Trent
the Decisions and Edicts of Popes the inquisitors of Heresie and such like inhibitions to the contrary There are publique Resolutions held of all and priuate opinions maintained by some by men particular in their owne Conceits and Societies in a more generall agreement in things indifferent not de fide or if yet of a looser and lower tye and alloy As those are proposed resolued maintained tendred and commanded So the other are free and disputed and questioned not enioyned as de fide or Subscribed because Problematicall and no more If a man should collect the priuate opinions of priuate men which are differences in Schooles among Schollers nay of the Master of Controuersies or of sentences and impute them vnto the Church of Rome the Faith of Rome this Gagger if hee know what to doe and his gagle would refuse them disclaime them thinke themselues wronged proclaime themselues belied as Bellarmine doth often in the like case Ex aequo bono and more maiorum we may doe the like Yet see the honesty of this Imposter against vs in this his poore pamphlet He hath collected together out of C. W. B. and such companions and disposed as it hapned without order or method xlvii seuerall propositions All pretended errours of the Church of England because all contrary to expresse words of our owne Bibles and repugnant to Antiquity in the Writings of the Fathers so to fasten Noueltie and Heresie and Impietie vpon our Church Of these xlvii onely viii or ix are the Doctrines of our Church 6. 13. 15. 18. 30. 36. 42. 44. and yet not all these as they are by him abused embeasted confounded and circumscribed The rest are partly left at libertie by the Church not determined for doctrines either way Many imposed by him on the Church are directly disclaimed abandoned oppugned by the Church and the flat contrary to them commended and commanded And accordingly belieued practised and maintained against oppugners A maior part are the meere opinions priuate fancies peculiar propositions of priuate men many of them disclaimed by the very Authors some falsely imputed to their Authors some raked together out of the lay-stals of deepest Puritanisme as much opposing the Church of England as the Church of Rome So that whatsoeuer is in this Gagger is or childishly fancied or ridiculously mistaken or wilfully peruerted or slanderously imputed or maliciously proposed or ambiguously conceiued or not iustified any way as may euidently appeare in the particulars in my answere ensuing In which Whatsoeuer is to be owned by the Church as resolued and tendred and subscribed in the authorised Doctrine or Practise thereof is by mee iustified fully against him and shall be maintained against his betters as not contrary to Antiquitie in the Tradition of the Church much lesse vnto Scriptures in our owne Bibles What is inuolued by him malitiously to procure enuy to the side is explicated and asserted to the proper tenents and termes it is shewed how farre the Church of England resolueth where and what things are left free and vndetermined for men to hold with them or against them Priuate opinions are left vnto their Authors and Abettors olde enough and able enough to speake for themselues In a publique cause as is the Faith of Gods Church peculiar interests that I know haue no such share at least ouer-awing as to commaund vndertaking against opponents In answering of whom to come vnto my course obserued with him which I thought fit in conueniency to let the Reader vnderstand for my owne excuse and iustification I haue gone along with him cap apee and point per point first for his Scriptures both expresse and to be seene then for his Fathers that affirme the same that is nothing to purpose as little as his Scriptures did as I could finde them quoted or could guesse at them by imagining where they mought be probably spoken withall or where I could remember to haue some time left them For our Catholiques Romish secure no question of the goodnes of their cause or rather relying vpon the tractablenesse of their patient Proselytes so they can make a dumbe shew with scoring vp Fathers doe not much trouble themselues with caring where or what they say So this Gagger stood affected it is more than apparant For I was often left to goe blowe the seeke for his Fathers For poore man he tooke them vp as hee could finde them by tale without weight or triall Some few peraduenture in the country abroad but the maior part by farre out of C. W. B. What he is I cannot tell and as hee hath them truely or falsly quoted rightly registred or mistaken so in euery poynt are they in the Gagge vnlesse worse Such supine negligence secure discoursing childish disputing in such a Master in Israel Such infant-like performance in such a Goliah vpon whose head the Philistines haue set vp their rest I speake no more in effect than I haue heard of him since I vndertooke him who can beare Beside the scurrilous fellow according to his breeding and education it seemeth sure I am fitting enough his disposition commeth in with Coblers and Bakers and Tinkers and Tapsters and Hosts and Hostesses and bottles and bottle-ale Insulteth vpon poore Protestants Out of their wits sicke in their wits Prateth of Horses and Asses praying and such like stuffe out of his Coblersshop or Hostesses ale-bench no doubt And who is able to possesse his Soule or containe his pen in patience that hath to doe with such Impostors Mountebankes and Buffones such rake-shames and rakehels as these ramblers are I confesse that subiects of this nature should aboue all be moderately calmely and quietly handled but so if wee meete with moderate men with quiet men with temperate honest and discreet men with men not proiected prostituted and giuen ouer vnto lying calumniating traducing of all that concurre not with them as this companion and his comerades are who haue no intent to make vp any ruines or decayed places in the Church to heale the sores cure the wounds mollifie the swellings cleanse out the empostumations in the mysticall body of Christ that ayme not at peace nor would procure vnity nor any way indeauour that those who professe Gods holy name may agree in the truth of his holy word and liue in vnity and godly loue but make their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their whole indeauour their speciall study day and night by all kinde of iniquity to keepe a faction on foot and maintaine opposition euen where it needeth not Such are to be curryed in their kinde and to be rubbed as they deserue in no case to be smoothed or sleeked ouer lest they please themselues too well in their impiety It was euer held lawfull to call a spade a spade Saint Paul gaue not Elimas any gentle termes nor did Saint Peter speake butter and hony vnto Simon Magus Our Sauiour himselfe that man of meekenesse called Herod a Fox and Iudas a Deuil when they deserued it
I confesse I haue dealt with this man as I would not haue dealt with euery one nor so as happely my person and calling would in some mens opinion require but sure as he and such as he deserue to be dealt withall For shall I suffer him to rayle vpon to blaspheme to calumniate to belye so impudently the Church of England as he doth beside his Tapster-like phrases of Ale and Hostesses and not make him heare of it on both his eares but guild him ouer with good language 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Let himselfe or his companions or any Papist in the packe goe honestly sincerely soberly scholler-like to worke Let him set affection faction partiallity sinister ends apart Let him come home to the poynts controuerted without rowling rambling rauing ioyne issue instantly with the Question where it lyeth I am for him no man more ready more willing more submisse more desirous to goe calmely and sedate to worke for Gods glory the Churches tranquilitie the good and benefit of my selfe and others To learne to heare to be aduised to yeeld to euidence and conuicting proofe out of Scriptures out of Fathers the totall Tradition of the Church No otherwise willing to deale with moderate men then I haue and doe with that worthie Baronius in his kinde But for this man those that thinke otherwise must pardon me As a wise man is to be heard with attention so a foole must be answered according to his folly And so haue I answered this goodly Gagger Thus Curteous Reader hauing giuen thee an account of my comming vpon this employment and secondly of my carriage of it with the reason of my demeanure in it I come to the Gagger to cope with him leauing thee to the Protection of the Almighty Windsor December 28. Thine in Christs seruice RI MOVNTAGV THE PREFACE answering that of the Gagger's to his Catholike Reader IAm not nor would you haue me it seemeth by your inscription Sir Gagger much interessed in this your Preface For you will not I suppose admit meâ— for one of your Curteous Readers and I professe I am none of your Catholike Readers that is as you intend it according to the Romancutt Your inscription is onely to the Catholike Reader your addresse alone vnto the Cuâ—â—eous Reader And sure I am you neede both the one and other Catholike and Curteous or none at all to ouer-view your pure Naturalls Indeed because Catholike beleeuing any thing therefore so curteous admitting admiring any thing You are sure of a Curteous one without more adoe if he be a Catholike one that readeth it Such Readers you leade in a string by the nose you neede not pray them their patience spare that paines and engagement you are sure enough of so much patience as heart can wish though otherwise affected or but indifferent Readers would count it a pressure to peruse such idle treatises as you permit your selues leaue to send amongst them But Sir what incongruity is this which your Gagger-ship presenteth vs with at the first Gaping It was intended by you and accordingly fitted to choke vp the new Gospell and Gospellers for euer The very title doth challenge that opinion and threaten that performance and yet see your vnaduisednesse you would not haue it put into their mouths at all Catholikes alone are addressed and inuited to it that is Biddengape to begagged They onely are to reade it and to receiue aduice in what sort to vse it that is to serue themselues thereof with fruit and profit Whereas in all Eristicall discourses those ad oppositum are to be Readers if not onely yet principally as men to be conuerted or confounded of that which is written against them For my part I desire not nor would I willingly maske vnder a Catholike cloake at all yet as some Protestants sometime out of a desire to be Eye-witnesses of your Antique trickes there doe couertly repaire vnto your Masses so for once I care not if I take vpon me the stile of a Curteous and Catholike Reader to heare your aduice concerning those same points which are so very necessary for your Catholikes in perusing this treatise the better to serue themselues thereof with fruit and profit in all and in the seuerall points no doubt of great and much behoouefull obseruance The first point is an excuse of some negligence or at least ouersight in the very title of the Pamphlet For whereas the refutation of the errors of the Protestants so vaunted of was vndertaken to be out of expresse texts of their owne Bibles this indetermined generality may amuse and puzle the Reader who will be to seeke without all question out of which English Bible the alleaged passages are extracted Well thought vpon and to purpose Bonum factum had hee beene so punctuall and precise in his Texts of Fathers to bee seene for affirming God knoweth what oftentimes in none of which the editions are specified being many diuers and different In many of which no place designed or but at rouers and randon or els falsly and not to purpose Some aduice would haue beene thought vpon here Bibles are of more speciall care I grant Therefore as this was necessarily done so in discretion that should not haue beene left vndone And yet what such necesssity to tell the Reader out of which English Bible they were alleadged Great doubtlesse For Qui bené distinguit bene docet England hath brought forth within these few yeares past to the number of twenty seuerall Bibles I grant that perchance to the number of twenty and twenty thousand in many seuerall impressions and editions in folio in quarto in octauo as many hath Rome and Lions and Antwerpe and Paris and other places nay farre moe brought forth seuerall sorts of the vulgar Latine and sent them abroad into the world It was very vnaduisedly therefore done of Bellarmine Valentia Vasquez and the rest of our Controuersors not to giue vs a speciall direction vnto that precise Edition which they followed as you haue done for yours of 1615. in quarto by Robert Barker that we might addresse our selues in perusing Controuersies vnto the Edition by them followed the time place and quantity thereof Surely a materiall and most remarkeable aduice Catholikes could neuer haue perused this treatise with profit without this Oh but the Protestants sorts of Bibles are sarre different one from another Meane you in forme So are yours but then you enlarge beyond art and skill There are but fiue seuerall forms of Bibles at the most You mean in matter For the translations differing one from an other Then in plaine English you lye Name me ten of this twenty if you can Some different Translations there haue beene of late but authorized I know but two The Bishops as they call it and this last which hath perchance beene printed in seuerall formes twenty and twenty times but without diuersity in the Translation So that you might as well haue directed your
Catholike Reader to 1614. 1616 or any other yeare as well as 1619. by Robert Barker But admit there had beene amongst vt twenty seuerall Translations as you belye vs so long as authority gaue not countenance vnto them what can we be taxed for more then the Church of Rome may not so much as the ancient Catholike Church might For beside eight or nine seuerall translations into the Greeke tongue Saint Augustine is punctuall Lib. 2. cap. 11. de doct Christ that the seuerall Latine Translations in his time could not be numbred and Hierome in his preface vpon Iosua saith there were Tot exemplaria quod codices as many Translations as Copies Which variety he misliked but S. Augustine doth well like And in the Church of Rome at this day are moe seuerall Translations extant of the Scriptures into Latine then are in England into English beside the corrections of the Lovanists of Sixtus 5. and Clemens Octavus contrary repugnant to one the other Besides the infinite variety of the vulgar Edition not one copy almost like vnto another It cannot be obiected with such good reason vnto vs what edition doe you follow as it may be vnto you with reproofe enough Doe you follow Sixtus or Clemens in your quotations For we affixâ— no infallibility vnto any Translator as you doe to their Holinesse that haue thwarted and crossed shins with one the other And if you tye your men in publique passages vnto your authorized Edition so doe we our men in publike Liturgies in like sort Iam sumus ergo pares And you may turne your finger home vpon your selfe before you point it out to vs so that wee Papists haue not all one sort of Bible One or many if it had beene so materiall or so necessary for the Curteous Catholike Reader to know which Edition it was you followed but that you are meerely a vaine man the inscription might haue told vs which you followed without any great adoe or incumbring of the Page thus After English Bibles you might haue added in quarto by Robert Barker 1615. and not made so much adoe about plaine nothing but then you could not haue had this fling at so necessary a Point the great variety of our translations and such an opportunity was not to bee slipped for giuing the Protestants a wipe with a meere lye of the multiplicity of Bibles differing one from another Seconded with another of like nature For know for certaine Reader whatsoeuer thou art there is no such faithfulnesse in these citations as this man pretendeth For neither are all citations word for word expressed in the Gagger according to our Bibles of any Translation but sometime the sense onely sometime not that and sometime expresse consequence and no more Contrary to promise and vndertaking euen so when the sense is not differing from the supposall For by promise he was bound vnto expresse and direct words And yet pardon him this false asseueration that they are not so written as he pretended not in that Edition of Robert Barker As for instance Luc. 24. 27. 8. 13. Math. 9. 3. 3. 8. and 3. 5. 6. and 19. 12. Act. 15. 14 15. 1 Cor. 14. 32. 2 Cor. 11. 2. and 2 Cor. 5. 10. Philip. 2. 30. Esay 49. 21. And haply other places beside these This is the first point Reader to serue thee for thy profit and togather fruit thereout A second is touching the splendour of Truth which indeed is admirable and attractiue Falshood and fraud are corner-creepers but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Truth is euer with a cheerefull countenance and as the verticall sunne at noone which hauing dispelled both the darknesse of the night and fogges of the day shineth forth in brightest glory But there are shadowes as well as substances et notâ maior imago most an end in course of kind the shadow is of greater aspect then the substance Truth is appearing as well as Being The diuell will seeme an Angell of light Not the veriest Theese that euer tooke purse but will say of his fellow and sweare for himself we are honest men Change but the tearmes the case is yours Sir Gagger The truth is your owne is it not Oh take it as granted though nothing more questioned or so questionable yet the Truth is onyour side there is no â—ay You may speake it boldly and stand to it stoutly to your Catholike Readers For if you want Knights of the post themselues will supply the place and sweare it That notwithstanding the Protestant Ministers haue endeauoured to obserue you would say obscure the same by so many varieties of translations and by such an infinite number of corruptions and falsifications yet neuerthelesse their condemnation is so expresly set downe in their own Bible and is so cleare to al the world that nothing more needs hereto but only that thou know to reade and to haue thine eyes in thy head at the opening of this their booke Euen as you put the words into their mouths as a witnesse at large in case of Tithes once did sweare in my owne hearing he knew the place Tithable for 300. yeares and yet was aged but 99. yeares This man spake with a good will to the cause So will your Catholikes if you aske them touching Protestant Ministers their Translations Corruptions and Falsifications beleeue you forestall you protest and sweare for you accordingly Can you desire greater Curtesie then so Some variety of Translation betwixt ours and yours your selfe haue taken the paines to obserue in these Propositions 7. 14. 15. twice 25. 29. 38. 46. and happily some others Are these Corruptions or Falsifications of the text you charge them not so you cannot you dare not doe Variety of Translations for all your enlarging there are not many As many or moe in the Church of Rome If so not authorised you will say Why no more are ours The Councel of Trent hath authorised yours and the Church of England representatiue ours Neither one nor other this or that for Authenticall variety of Translation there may be some if this make Corruptions or Falsifications your Authenticall Latine is in a poore case or rather a shop of Corruptions to depraue and obscure the splendour of Truth which is such and so passing bright notwithstanding that it shineth forth aboue and against them all For if a man can but reade and haue his eyes in his head at the very opening of the booke he shall finde your Bibles infinitely full of such varieties which no man will deny per aduenture not your selfe who yet may claime to weare a Liuery as one of Belzebubs attendants in this kind And for Corruptions and Falsifications if they be so infinite and so cleere it had beene honesty to haue named halfe a score halfe a dozen one at least to haue acquitted your toung of Lying and slandering as it is Calumnia est non accusatio There are quoted by you in your Abridgement 276 seuerall places
arise about the meaning of things expressed by those words There is none at all or little contention about the words of Scripture All is about the sense meaning of the Scripture how we may grow vnto resolution where doubts and ambiguities do intervene I will not goe with you about the bush I come home vp to your own desire The warrant authority of the holy Fathers that is the practise and tradition of the Church shall regulate I promise you my resolution and settle my iudgement in things that are huius controuersi I will not put in exceptionem fori For I am assured I need not I appeale vnto antiquity and will follow you where you dare aduenture to call me I know your performance that way I laugh at your vanity in braging of Fathers that haue vnderstood these places in the selfe same sense that Catholikes doe What Fathers haue said for you in Gagging our mouths I haue examine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 euery one Their answers to the questions proposed to them their resolution for the points remembred he that will know may finde and as he findeth so pronounce What we can doe in our defence may appeare when we come to be defendants This I will promise out of my ownepoore reading I will droppe Fathers with a better read man then you are in them point per point and if I say not more for my cause that is for iustifying the Church of England then you haue done for calumniating of it or can say for iustifying your Popish faith I will be reconciled to Pope Vrbans faction For vnto the Church I neede none We vse not Sir scurility to consult with Coblers or Bakers or Tinkers they and their Trulls may meet at their stawling kenns with such clapperdogeons as your selfe Little better are those Patrons of your forlorne cause Abdias Amphilochius Martialis and others and those Tararagmales the Decretall Epistles of the Popes scullen-boyes making or the outcasts of some groomes of his stable Tertullian Basill Chrysostome and the rest of the worthies of their times we neither geld nor delumbate for speaking too plaine nor vse them like you as merchants doe their counters sometimes for a que sometime for a thousand pound Euer in their place we heare them speake rise vp with reuerence at their asseuerations yeeld vnto their dogmaticall conclusions Take not this as an enlargement or braggadochianisme I that say it will performe it Put me to it as you can or dare if I flye from antiquity hisse at me for euer I could haue played the foole in alliteration and hunted the letter as you haue done But I speake plaine English without a Cobler for Chrysost a Tinker for Tertullian a Baker for Basill Then Tertullian Basill Chrysostome and the rest of their compeeres I desire no better dayesman or Diribitores betwixt you and me Therefore set your heart at rest set out when you will I will walke along with you to the Fathers houses and stand to their award whatsoeuer But the fift and last is any thing rather then aduice indeed vox and praeterea nihil pure Popish Catholicisme that is insolent triumphing before victory nay before stroke striken in the field diuiding of the spoiles of poore Protestants men of no action or performance at all men that will looke before they leape and goe warily and wisely to worke neuer sell the skinne before the beare is slaine It may be some one nay any one Protestant that hath but beene at Rama and saluted the schoole of the Prophets can discerne Saul amongst them a fellow that as idly taketh God to witnesse as Saul bound Israell foolishly with an oath which in conclusion might haue cost him deare The man was afraid he should hardly finde credit vpon his word being happely knowne for one amongst his people that will speake when he cannot doe or meaneth not to make performance therefore he putteth forward with an oath and protesteth in the presence of God more then he is able beleeue me Reader to make good That it is not in the power of all the Protestants in England to finde in their owne Bibles one onely expresse text what to doe by which they can possibly prooue one onely point of the false doctrine I might say he doth aequiuocate in false doctrine and intendeth a refuge when he is shamed viz. That false doctrine is not prooued by our Bibles But I cauill not at words I take his meaning He suppeseth all our doctrine is false and not to be iustified out of Scripture Which if it be not I will grant it false and am ready to disclaime and to abiure it It is our doctrine he saith No man can forgiue sinnes but God If it be there is expresse text for it and that also exclusiue Luc. 5. 21. Who can forgiue sinnes but God onely An interrogation in your owne learning is equivalent to a Negatiue None but God can forgiue sinnes Here is neither adding nor diminishing nor changing ought Your owne Authenticke Latin hath it so Quis potest dimittere peccata nisi solus Deus It is our doctrine he saith No man hath seene God at any time If it be so it is expresse words of our and your Bibles No man hath seene God at any time Deum nemo vidit vnquam Iohan. 1. 18. Here are two texts that is more then one onely in their Bibles also not onely in our owne expresse as may be without adding diminishing or changing to prooue two points of our doctrine imputed vnto vs by himselfe collected out of his obseruations and yet the brasen face and leaden heart is not ashamed to bragge it so Catholikely and call God to record of an apparent lye It is our doctrine that some things are hard in diuine Scripture Saint Peter 2. 3. 16. saith as much It is our doctrine some things are easie Heb. 2. 2. Write the vision and make it plaine vpon tables that he who runneth may reade it Deut. 30. 11. This commandement which I cōmand thee this day is not hid frō thee neither is it farre off It were easie to passe through all points of controuerted opinions and shew the vanity of this vaunt the confident impudency of this Ignaro But extra oleus this is no place for that purpose I may happely finde him more worke this way then he can handsomely cleere his hands of in hast without adding art diminishing changing or such like practises of litting Law the Architectonicall science of our Popish Catholickes Ex animi tui sententia Gagger Who are more likely to play such trickes of legerdemaine those that neuer vsed to pare prune shaue gold or correct Authours but plainely send them foorth in puris naturalibus as they finde them or those that make a trade and profession of it and blush not to publish vnto the world that all Writers old or new sacred and prophane must speake as our Masters will haue them speake or hold
their peace for euer This you nor can nor do deny To this day you put it in practise For according to such directions from higher powers The Bibliotheca Saint Patrum was last yeare printed at Cullen Shamelesse Mountebancks that obiect that to others whereof themselues are notoriously guilty But it seemeth this man did as the tale is a wench once gaue her mother counsell to doe A brace of neighbours women by sex scolds by profession falling out after they had passed some ordinary language saith a daughter of one of them to her mother Oh Mother call her where first least she call you so and prooue it Haue you heard of this good counsell I am sure ye follow it to an heire It is your profession to adde diminish alter change to aequiuocate your selues and teach your Authours so to doe notoriously For feare wee should iustly lay it to your charge you preuent vs and cast it in our teeth But play the honest man once in your dayes name where when how by whom this hath beene done I name your selfe guilty of this cousening trick and name for false and ridiculous interpretation the 1. of Saint Luk. 8. 9. and Leuit. 16. 17. in the sixt Proposition For adding to Math. 9 8 in the eleuenth Proposition For diminishing Phil. 2. 30. in the fourteene Proposition Tria are not omnia but enough to shame you if you be not past grace and shame In briefe your whole booke is compacted by this art For 39. of these Propositions are no doctrines of the Church of England those that are are vnfaithfully handled By ambiguity by adding to taking from peruerting of sense and meaning this little Pamphlet is meerely made Detract these particulars not so much will remaine as with a whole impression to stop one mustard pot I shall not need actum agere here I haue discouered your false play in particulars hereafter This is to imploy I â—rowe mans wilinesse if not wisedome to serue the diuell both are bad but yet better it were to employ mans wisedome in stead of the word For true wisedome is of God wheresoeuer or howsoeuer Lying is you haue heard from whom the father of lyes that graund Paedagogue in the Iesuite schooles brought you vp a good Proficient in this faculty you may sing a song of degrees there in medio chori according to your progresse from our twenty seuerall Bibles and their manifold varieties to their more Corruptions and Falsifications to darken and obscure the truth and yet those also handled sophistically and contrary to the mind of all antiquity nor only so but neuer produced without some tricke of adding diminishing or changing by interpretation that the old saying may take hold vpon the Gagger Qui semel verecundiae fines est transgressus eum grauiter oportet esse impudentem Sir know this Our profession is not such as yours is our practise answerable to our profession We protest you say and we doe so indeed that The word of God containeth all that is necessary to saluation Your sarcasticall irony shal not beate vs from it And therein we say no more then Saint Paul in that well knowne place of 2. Tim. 3. 16. 17. The whole Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God and is profitable to teach to improoue to correct and to instruct in righteousnesse that the man of God may bee absolute being made perfect vnto all good workes For to know God in Christ is life eternall Ioh. 17. 3. That is the way vnto and meanes whereby to attaine eternall life The absolute direction for that way is Ioh. 20. 31. These things are written that you might beleeue that Iesus is Christ the Sonne of God and that in beleeuing yee might haue life through his name These are moe texts then one and without adding diminishing or changing ought by interpretation as expresse as words can make them that all things necessary vnto saluation are conteyned in the Scripture Yet farther to be inforced by this reason Saluation is the end of reueiled knowledge from God If that knowledge be not sufficient God is defectiue in proportioning the meanes vnto the end intended which auouch if you can without blasphemy If man adde any thing to it as defectiue or detract from it in the materialls or alter and change it against minde and meaning we may well enquire quo warranto he doth it and condemne his presumption as enormious An Embassadour hath commission and instructions from his penne according to them he must proceede Differ hee must not vpon life nor change the state and tearmes of his direction so farre as to come short of to exceede vpon to be thwart vnto and against the maine of the busines negotiated Explane he may adde detract in words alter phrases or occurrences according as occasions are so he hold the maine and keepe close to the meaning and direct vnto the end of his negotiating still Circumstances sometime may alter much this point discretion must regulate as it may but substances altered make a maine change indeed aliud and aliud not aliter If we say it is not lawfull for men nor Angels to adde diminish or alter ought thereof we meane for the maine and substance of the Gospell we intend not such a precise obseruance as not to say Rites for ceremonies statutes for ordinances Church for congregation and such like or vice versâ And therein we say no more then Saint Paul himselfe hath said in so many words an other expresse text for another point of our false doctrine Gal. 1. 8. Though we or an Angell from heauen preach vnto you otherwise then that which we haue preached vnto you let him be accursed Otherwise so as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thereby to corrupt and abolish the Gospell Now this is not onely when they preach contrary and amolish the whole 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if they alter and change some small obuious thing saith Chrysostome and his reason is The Scriptures were commended to vs by God the Lord of all Men and Angells are but seruants whose commendation is to doe his will This precise obedience hath that warrant yet further It is better to obey God then man If men stand ad oppositum to God But we are not thus perswaded of Antiquity We nor vse them so nor speake so of them We command not our followers vtterly to renounce all antiquity customes multitude humane wisedome iudgements decrees edicts or councells The Councels of Trent of Florence of Laterane are not all Councels We refuse them as factious as bastards as partiaries as hauing nothing but the names of Councels You refuse moe Councels then we doe in the foure first so highly commended by your owne Gregory you presume to prescribe you reiect and retaine what you please We accept them absolutely sans exception We may as well presse you with the Sinods of Gapp and Dort as you vs with Trent and diuers others Edicts and Decrees and Imginents
what meane you by them of whom where when vpon what grounds why a rambling logodiarrhe without wit or reason Edicta Principum Decreta Synodorum And iudicia pro tribunali are of large extent of different alotment For against God Equity Truth and Honesty what an idle discourse is it thus to shoote your bolts as boyes doe stones to make Duckes and Drakes vpon the surface of the water to glide smoothly for two or three grasings and then sinke to the bottome without any more adoe Adde quantity to iudgements Decrees Edicts wee shall know what you would say and so answere As for humane wisedome that helpe on our right hand haue you such cause to boast we haue no sense nor reason I thinke you doe not find vs such arrant fooles as vtterly destitute of humane indowments If you doe the better for you You may cary the cause against vs without more adoe Customes we haue many of the better sort not all your anticke fits and gesticulations You haue not all antiquity had you haue many they neuer saw Silly man know you not most customes doe and may vary keepe your owne if you please we are not so wedded to them nor to all ours but vpon reason we haue will and may change by better warrant then you can auoide As for multitude we dare drip Siders with you old and late but these are meere flashes of your Catholike vanity I haue said it often I repeate it in the close that you may remember it the better at least you shall find that is my selfe that will ioyne issue with you when you dare to maintaine the doctrine of the Church of England and oppose the doctrine of the Romish Church by all of these or any of these Antiquitie Custome Multitude humane wisedome Iudgements Decrees Edicts and Councels If I haue not for me in all or euery one as good and better share and interest for my confession theÌ„ you for yours I wil yeeld As for Miracles Visions and such hobgoblin-stuffe I am contented you appropriate to your owne So did the Gentiles brag of the like as Chrysostome obserueth Orat. 1. in Iudai santes pag. 34. Edit Hesheâ— So did the Donatists as S. Augustine reporteth de notis Ecclesiae ca. 19. Their miracles were then as yours now Figmenta mendacium hominum aut portenta fallacium spirituum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a prouerbiall speech in Athenaeus Fooles may be frighted with Hagges and Fairies men of vnderstanding know it is but knauery At Lauretto Sichem Annuntiada or wheresoeuer we haue the like puppet playes amongst our Catholike neighbours Cachinnantibus daemonijs at such iugling tricks for their aduantage And yet take me not so as if I cast off all miracles I admit I admire them that were true for a true end the ratificatiou of Truth vnto the soule 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That such as would not yeeld vnto the word preached might yet be conuicted by that miraculous power saith Clemens in his Constituions This was that the world might beleeue but yet since and euer Chrysostome said true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 One faith and beleefe is to be regulated not by miracles but by the Scripture which on good foundation we defend containes all that is Necessary for our saluation You haue done with your Reader and I with you till we meet againe at the next turne till then farewell A list of the seuerall errors imputed to the PROTESTANTS by this Gagger being so many Lyes I. THey maintaine in the first place that the Scriptures are easie to be vnderstood II. That in matters of Faith wee must not relye vpon the iudgement of the Church and of her Pastors but onely vpon the written Word III. That Apostolicall Traditions and ancient Customes of the holy Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige vs. IIII. That the Church can erre V. That the Church hath beene hidden and inuisible VI. That it is forbidden in holy Scripture the publike seruice of the Church to be in a Tongue not vnderstood by all the Assistants VII That Saint Peter was not the first or chiefe among the Apostles and that none was greater or lesse among the twelue VIII That Saint Peters faith hath failed IX That a Woman may bee supreame Gouernesse of the Church in all causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Temporall as Queene Elizabeth was X. That Antichrist shall not be a particular man and that the Pope is Antichrist XI That none but God can forgiue or retaine sinnes XII That we must not confesse our sinnes but onely to God XIII That Pardons and Indulgences were not in vse in the Apostles times XIIII That the Actions and Passions of the Saints doe serue for nothing vnto the Church XV. That no man can doe workes of Supererâ—gation XVI That by the fall of Adam we haue all lost our free-will and that it is not in our owne power either to choose good or eâ—ill XVII That it is impossible to keepe the Commandements of GOD though assisted with his Grace and the holy Ghost XVIII That onely Faith iustifieth and that good workes are not absolutely necessary to Saluation XIX That no good workes are meritorious XX. That Faith once had cannot be lost XXI That God by his will and ineuitable decree hath ordained from all eternity who shall be damned and who saued XXII That euery man ought infallibly to assure himselfe of his saluation and to hold that hee is of the 〈◊〉 her of the praedestinate XXIII That euery one hath not his Angell keeper XXIIII That the holy Angels pray not for vs. XXV That we may not pray vnto them XXVI That the Angels cannot helpe us XXVII That no Saint departed hath afterward appeared to any vpon Earth XXVIII That Saints deceased know not what passeth in the Earth XXIX That they pray not for vs. XXX That we may not pray to them XXXI That the bones or reliques of Saints are not to be kept no vertue proceedeth from them after they be dead XXXII That Creatures cannot be sanctified or made more holy then they are already by their owne Nature XXXIII That Children may bee saued by their Parents faith without Baptisme XXXIV That imposition of hands vpon the people called by Catholikes Confirmation is not necessary nor to be vsed XXXV That the bread of the Supper is but a figure of the body of Christ not his body XXXVI That wee ought to receiue vnder both kindes and that one alone sufficeth not XXXVII That sacramentall vnction is not to bee vsed to the Sicke XXXVIII That no interior grace is giuen by the imposition of hands in the Sacrament of holy Orders XXXIX That Priests and other religious persons or any others who haue vowed their chastity vnto God may freely marry notwithstanding their vowes XL. That fasting and abstinence from meates is not grounded on holy Scripture nor causeth any spirituall good XLI That Iesus Christ descended not into hell nor deliuered thence the Soules of
Ecclesiasticall and ciuill not any thing to purpose for Church or for her Pastors propounded The last out of 2 Thessal 2. 15. was wont to passe currant for vnwritten verities now it commeth in limping for Church and Pastors resolue where it shall stand and then we will ranke it in degree and desert So I would could I tell where to finde them they walke in tenebris I cannot speake with them by cleare day-light In briefe what they affirme I professe I cannot tell I know many things which they affirme in those remembred bookes and passages but what the man here meaneth I can but guesse at so dissolute and at randome are his quotations as if to name and muster vp some Fathers were enough as I can coniecture so come I to them if I misse I must haue better information hereafter Gregorie Nazianz. in Oratione excusat saith somewhat I resolue of and to some purpose but what I certainely doe not know nor yet which Oration is by him intended For I finde not any vnder that title in Billius whom these men follow vnlesse it be one of his Apologies In the former of which two I finde somewhat that may looke that way this In Ecclesijs constituit vt alij pascantur pareant quibus videlicet id conducit ac cum sermone tum opere ad officium diriguntur alij autem ad Ecclesiae perfectionem Pastores ac magistri sunt qui virtute coniunctioneque ac apud Deum familiaritate vulgo sublimiores sunt rationem animae ad corpus aut mentis ad animam obtinentes A thing reasonable profitable and of absolute necessitie for the being of a Church to haue a distinction of Pastors and People some to teach some to be taught to leade to be led to rule to obey a thing established practised and defended in England no otherwise then was in the Primitiue Church and is in the Church of Rome at this day Vnlesse wee can see more shewed vs in Gregory Nazianzene we haue seene but little vnto any purpose yet and other thing then this I know not Tertullian next to be seene against Heretickes prescribeth the rule of Faith so doe we appealeth to the first institution of the Catholicke Church of Christ in his Apostles and to their Doctrine then taught and deliuered and so doe wee aboue all primerily thereto he descendeth vnto Succession so will we Not any prescription insisted vpon by Tertullian but I embrace it and dare appeale vnto it and stand to the award thereof Ex fide personas approbantes non ex personis fidem Is this that which he would haue with Tertul. out of Chapter 21. What Christ reuealed vnto his Apostles to be preached I will prescribe that it ought to be proued no otherwise then by testimony of those Churches which were first founded by the Apostles in their preaching partly by word of mouth and partly afterward by writing If this be the place of Tertullian meant by the Gagger then Currat a Gods name we accept the Condition and ioyne issue and come on with Tertullian as it insueth Si haec ita sunt If this be so it must needs be that all Doctrine which concordeth with those Apostolicall mother and originall Churches is true as being that selfe-same which the Churches receiued from the Apostles they from Christ Christ from God Whatsoeuer other Doctrine is beside this is false against the truth of the Apostles Christ and God Thus he thus we I desire no other Iudge or better triall ioyne issue when you will or when you dare I accept the Condition for any point controuerted betwixt the Church of England and Rome at this day for 500. yeeres after Christ at least Discipulus magistrum Cyprian commeth next to be seene in his 55. Epistle or as your Authors suggest it Lib. 1. Epist 3. In which Epistle I cou'd pitch vpon places moe then one that happily you may entend for they looke this way but that which is purposed I suppose is this in the second sect Actum est de Episcopatus vigore de Ecclesiae gubernandae sublimi ac divinâ potestate The rather because the Texts of Scripture here cited are by Pamelius the Roman Scholiast there applyed though to no purpose For it is the receiued Doctrine of the Church of England that in the office of a Bishop there should be that vigor as he calleth it and that the Calling it selfe is Diuine and an high calling Nor doth any Papist liuing more respect and approue that saying of Saint Cyprian in the same Epistle Sect. 19. then our Church of England doth Non est ad hoc deponenda Catholicae Ecclesiae dignitas c. The honor and the dignity of the Catholick Church is not to be abased so farre nor the vnspotted maiesty of the Flocke of Christ or Priestlike power and authority to be so deiected that men consisting out of the Church should dare professe they will passe censure vpon a Bishop of the Church That Heretickes should presume to censure Christians wounded men iudge the sound lapsed men those that neuer fell guilty persons iudge the Iudge Impious Sacrilegists the Priests This you approue so doe we To what end doe you will vs see Saint Cyprian Or Saint Augustine against Cresconius the Donatist if yet wee could tell where in speciall and what to see is this that which you meane Cap. 33. We vphold the truth of Scripture when we doe that which the vniversall Church commandeth recommended by authority of the Scriptures so farre as that because the Scripture cannot deceiue a man that would not willingly erre in this question obscure should goe and enquire what the Church saith of it If this be the place as in all likelihood it is we subscribe vnto it with all our hearts For in Diuinity Questions Controuersi Iuris there must bee a Iudge to determine that wee say is the Church whether part contending hath Law right that is consent of Scripture vpon his side and we professe with the same Saint August in his 118. Disputare contra id quod vniuersa Ecclesià sentit insolentissimae est insaniae A most in solent franticke foole were he that would dispute against the tenent of the vniuersall Church Sir bring vs to the triall and gagge vs if you can with this resolution of Saint Augustine belye vs not for our opinions against your knowledge But all this while wee haue seene in the Fathers what wee could finde or imagine yet wee neuer saw cleerely till the close Drinke was your arrand but draffe would you haue your plea hath beene for the Church and Pastors your intent was meerely for the Pope for so Saint Anselme Lib. de Incarnat cap. 1. written vnto Pope Vrban saith vnto him Vnto no other is more rightly referred to be corrected whatsoeuer ariseth in the Church against the Catholicke Faith What is this saying of S. Anselme vnto vs in matters of faith
Traditions Act. 16. 4. this is one Act. 15. 29. To abstaine from bloud and strangled Exempt such dishes specified from such dressing haue with you to Masse to Mr. Mayes as I am inuited by Sir A. P◠peraduenture your selfe 2 Tim. 1. 13. We finde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the forme of wholesome words in our Bibles And if this be Traditions vnwritten iudge you good Catholiques and set not so high a price vpon this arrant blunderer then whom a verier Goose neuer handled Goose-quill And so goe see if your leasure will serue Fathers that affirme somewhat not what they should The first you must see if you please is Irenaeus Lib. 3. cap. 4. for he will not trouble your seeing with Clemens Ignatius Dionysius Areopagita Polycarpus Egesippus Iustinus Martyr all elder than Irenaeus and vaunted of by his good masters and no doubt as much to poynt as Irenaeus who yet is held to be resolute and irrefrageable in that place Propter quod oportet deuitare quidem illos quae autem sunt Ecclesiae cum summâ diligentia deligere apprehendere veritatis Traditionem For which cause wee must shun and eschew them but with all possible diligence make choyce of the things belonging to the Church and lay hold vpon the Tradition of truth Which Tradition is no other thing but the rule of our faith The holy Scripture nothing vnwritten vncertaine beside much lesse against Scripture This is somewhat in your opinion but that which is the thing intended indeede is this which followeth in Irenaeus Et si quibus de aliquâ modicâ quaestione disceptatio esset nonne oporteret in antiquissimas recurrere Ecclesias in quibus Apostoli conuersati sunt ab ijs de praesenti quaestione sumere quod certum re liquidum est Thus hee questioneth I answere affirmatiuely yes No doubt we ought for resolution in poynts of doubtfull controuersie relye vpon that decision of the eldest Churches Doe we refuse this triall good Sir Gagger Where you will in what poynt you will I vndertake thus to iustifie the Church of England name you the Controuersie one or moe and maintaine the contrary if you can or dare The question is not with Irenaeus what must be Law but how the Law is to be expounded and interpreted Scripture the Law and Tradition the Interpretation that is the perpetuall praxis of the Church to expound the doubtfull texts of Scripture But Irenaeus proceedeth farther than so it will be said For What if the Apostles had left vs no writing at all Nonne oportet ordinem sequi Traditionis quam tradiderunt ijs quibus committebant Ecclesias Farther indeede but to no purpose this is vpon supposition If it had been so which is not so nor could be so Secondly it followeth not that because if God had not giuen Israei a Law it is probable hee would haue continued his former course with Abraham Isaac and the Patriarchs therefore when he had giuen them his Law they were still to looke for immediate or Angelicall Reuelations as before No more is it consequent to reason pietie or Irenaeus intent that albeit if no Scripture had beene written onely Tradition must haue beene followed therefore Scripture being written wee should as otherwise addresse our selues vnto Tradition But thirdly wee come home to poynt Shew vs any thing tendred by those Ecclesiae antiquissimae to be belieued and obserued and see if wee respect it not as well and as much as you Till you shew vs such Traditions leaue your prating idlely at randome touching worth and weight and vse and authoritie of Traditions Your Traditions tendred in these dayes are onely in name as Simon Magus was and Simon Peter the same no more of credite than hee of pietie both alike Origen is next to be seene in cap. 6. ad Roman Hee calleth Baptisme of Infants a Tradition and let it be so It is the vniuersall iudgement and most ancient practise of the Catholique Church deduced at least from Scripture if not proued in Scripture as the controuersor himselfe confesseth Be it a Tradition it is more for our aduantage than otherwise For we admit receiue defend and practise it which must needes giue the lye vnto your proposition That according to the Doctrine of the Protestants Apostolicall traditions ancient customes of the holy Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige For the World knoweth your brazen face will blush to deny it wee receiue it practise it are obliged by it S. Damascen may stand by vnlesse you meane to make your friends with him a childe in yeares of yesterdayes birth in respect of those old Heroes of the Primitiue times Not that he saith any thing Lib. 4. cap. 17. more than an other or more effectuall and to purpose but because he is not of that desert or esteeme to be ranked with the Fathers of the Primitiue times being long post natus and a Partian many wayes for which cause I answere him not S. Chrysostome is peremptory and through for Traditions In 2. ad Thessal 2. vers 16. he saith Hence it is plaine and apparant that the Apostles deliuered not all in writing but very many things without booke Thus hee but to what end For no Protestant liuing in his right wits will deny this That the Apostles spake much more then is written And whatsoeuer they spake as Apostles in execution of their Ministery is of equall authority with that which they wrote For inke and paper conferre no authoritie or validity beyond the subiect and author of the writing Therefore the Tradition of the Apostles and of the Church is without all question of good credite and esteeme and so much wee professe Art 34. I graunt it hath displeased some which is said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is Tradition which auoweth it seeke no further I see no reason why any should be so displeased therewith For if it be a Tradition of the Catholique Church and such Traditions onely hee meaneth Chrysostome saith there no more than hee may No more than Augustine and Tertullian haue said It is Tradition I goe no further No more will◠in any thing for my part I promise you that is controuerted betwixt you and vs at this day Make that appeare which you propose to haue been a Tradition of the Catholique Church and you and I shall soone agree shake hands and no more adoe Saint Basil you haue kept for the close it seemeth and for the vpshot of all and he indeed is in the place remembred very much for all Traditions vnwritten deriued to the Church from the Apostles I know some Protestants especially of preciser cut doe discredit the Author as a Counterfeit onely vpon Erasmus bare word who sauoured some discongruity which I could neuer finde of stile I am not of that or their minde Others being at a stand because of their owne priuate fancies oppose Saint Basil vnto Saint Basil For my part I beleeue
Pharises doe your Church 1 Pet. 2. 9. The Church is styled a chosen generation a royall Priesthood an holy nation a peculiar people glorious titles but nothing to this They cannot erre Iohn 17. 17. Gods word is truth I graunt But is Gods Word euer in the mouth of man The Apostles were sanctified and that in Gods truth according vnto Christs Prayer Yet after this Prayer Peter went not right when Saint Paul reproued him he fell and that foulely in denying Christ That which is sanctified is accepted not euer so sanctified as without spot As for 1 Cor. 11. 25. if the Institution or rather Commemoration of the institution of the holy Communion be a proofe sufficient that the Church cannot erre wee yeeld the cause if nothing to purpose what meant this idle pate to range it heere What the man would say in Psalm 101. 23. 20. or whether hee would send vs after mistaking there I cannot tell and till then I cannot answere For not so much as neere thereabout is ought to purpose of not erring Ephes 2. 20. Wee reade that they were built vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets And what then Could they not erre Dare you say so They could for they haue and are shaken off from that foundation but so long as they stood on fast they erred not holding one Faith one Lord one Baptisme Eph. 4. 5. which if you and we doe at this day by your owne argument auoid it if you can we erre not As for one heart and one soule of the belieuers Act. 4. 32. it is in reference of loue one to another not in vnity of Doctrine all with one another And yet there were differences in that vnion for example sake inter Paul and Barnabas and might be disproportion in their Doctrine as dissimilitude in the habitude and condition of those sheepe in one sheepe-fold vnder one Shepheard and yet all heare the Shepheards voyce Iohn 10. 16. and hee that will not heare some of those Sheepe Luc. 10. 16. be taxed for not regarding the Shepheard when as yet for all that some of those Sheepe be gone astray To conclude The Church cannot erre neither collectiue nor representatiue Thus your Masters distinguish the termes of this question that goe workman-like and not like you clutteringly to worke So they so wee In the largest extent not erre at all Secondly not erre in poynts of Faith For in matters of fact they confesse errour Faith is fundamentall or accessory There none is here error may accrew Fathers to be seene you afford vs none Not because there are none but because your reading could supply none Who take vp all vpon retaile and credit hauing so small store at home The Church cannot erre is most true and the Church may erre is as true each part considered as it ought V. That the Church hath beene hidden and inuisible IT may be some priuate opinions haue runne vpon inuifibility of the Church which are no doctrinall decisions nor to be imputed vnto the resolued Doctrine of the Protestants that are of another minde Nunquam est quod nusquam videtur That which cannot be seene if it be seeable is no where at all nor in being For as Saint Augustine well said Quo modo confidimus ex diuinis liter is accepisse nos Christum manifestum si non accepimus Ecclesiam manifestam How is it possible wee should hope to haue Christ manifest in Scripture except wee haue likewise the Church manifest Therefore on all hands it is resolued the Church hath euer beene visible since there was a Church In England especially how can this fellow impute inuisibility to vs who claime and proue a succession and therefore needes a visibilitie from the time of the Apostles If any doe thinke otherwise or cannot doe this we vndertake no patronage at all of them The Church is a City seated on a Hill which is naturally visible though in a fogge or mist not discerned There euer was and will be a Church vnto whom complaints may be made though the Church doth not euer heare complaints Those that haue fell vpon an inuisibility may perhaps be tollerated if well interpreted and vnderstood For euen the visible Church in her more noble parts may be said to be inuisible First the Saints triumphant and now regnant with Christ are parts of the Church in largest extent Who being in Heauen are vnknowne their persons proprieties and indowments The Saints militant her more excellent parts on Earth according to her more royall indowments the Elect according vnto purpose of Grace are knowne onely vnto God alone the searcher of secrets and decipherer of thoughts Such as be secret occultò intus are there not visible vnto man In this sence in regard of these parts the Church is and is esteemed inuisible and so held euen of the Papists themselues Otherwise then so wee doe not speake of inuisibility So that the man must fall foule with his owne part or be at warre with his owne wits Moderate men on both sides confesse this controuersie may cease Et quamuis praesens haec Ecclesia Romana non parum in morum disciplinae integritate adde etiam in doctrinae sinceritate ab antiquâ illâ vnde orta deriuata est discesserit tamen eodem fundamento doctrinae sacramentorum à Deo institutorum firma semper constitit communionem cum antiquâ illâ indubitatâ Christi Ecclesiâ agnoscit colit Quare alia diuersa ab illâ esse non potest tametsi multis in rebus dissimulis sit Manet enim Christi Ecclesia sponsa quamuis multis erroribus vitijs sponsum suum irritauerit quamdiu à Christo suo sponso non repudietur tametsi multis fâ—agellis ab ipso castigetur As for our Gagger hee is interessed happely otherwise In standeth him in hand to vphold and foment a faction lest for insufficiency otherwise hee turne Host and sell Bottle-Ale That mustie obiection as hee calleth it of Elias may doe him some pleasure at that time I adde no more touching this proposition because it is but lost labour VI. That it is forbidden in holy Scripture the publique seruice of the Church to be in a tongue not vnderstood of all the Assistants NO doubt Contrary to our owne Bibles in such sort that if the Protestants be not gagged now their mouthes are wider than Gargantuaes and their lips somewhat like to Germans that were nine mile asunder Certes neuer so foyled by texts of Scripture since Luther went out to this day Therefore expedite tabulas Chrysippei sophi For heere you haue a singular piece of worke indeede The Church of England directed not onely by the light of Israel the Word of God but also perswaded by common sense and reason hath and hath had her Seruice the publique prayers and Liturgie of the Church in a knowne tongue vnderstood of all that are present there ordinarily This is contrary to their
nature of his greatnesse Hic Rhodus hic saltus This is that you should haue expressed out of our Bibles or the Fathers In setting out his greatnesse otherwise you doe but trifle Haue it hee must first and then practise it Happely the execution will bound it out Let vs see how farre Luke 22. 32. And when thou art conuerted strengthen thy Brethren You reade you say confirme In good time reade so still Strengthen and confirme no great ods in either if it be shewed what his greatnesse was and yet strengthen is more than to confirme the Originall is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to stay and hold vp from falling to the purpose and present case of Peter who was to fall and foulely in denying Christ Strengthen or confirme must needes imply execution of greatnesse for to confirme and strengthen what is it but to practise and execute his greatnesse ouer them A poore practise and sorry greatnesse not of soueraigntie to which you driue but of superintendency at most in his Pastorall charge to plant and to water to doe no more It is true He that doth strengthen and confirme is greater than hee that is confirmed but in that act onely of confirming not in vniuersall iurisdiction I hope Your ghostly Father if you were a Potentate and at poynt to dye as his duetie is and office confirmeth you in your Faith Because hee confirmeth you and in that hee confirmeth you hee is your better will you take him for your Lord and Soueraigne therefore Paul strengthened Peter when he went not aright to the Gospel What was then become of Peters headship can your sheepes-head tell To confirme in faith requireth nor implyeth no supremacy in power No other confirmation is intended there Goe cast your Cap then at Peters Primacy from confirming his Brethren See more proofe of your folly Mark 3. 16. Where Saint Peter in the list of the Apostles is onely named first which doth not necessarily inferre hee was the chiefe but wee graunt him a chiefe a prime a first place Wee acknowledge him the greatest amongst the Apostles in many respects And what of this No more but this First you belye vs in your position Secondly you cannot claime your Popes Monarchie from any greatnesse that Saint Peter had Act. 1. 1◠not the 13. Hee speaketh first proposeth a case Will Pope Vrban be contented to doe no more will he callenge no other royalty take it vse it let him goe as farre as euer Saint Peter went as a Bishop and not as an Apostle and wee will goe along with him Therefore in conclusion your texts of Scripture are not to any purpose at all to proue Peters Primacy but you a poppet Much lesse your Fathers see them who list for I haue seene them more times than I haue fingers and toes and could neuer see any such regality in them Theophilact calleth him Prince of the Disciples and so doe I as Aristotle Prince of the Phylosophers and Virgil Prince of Poets who had no commaund for al that either ouer Poets or Phylosophers Eusebius in his Chronicle calleth Saint Peter the first Bishop of Christians Admit hee doe What then First is in respect of time of place order and authoritie Eusebius expresseth not how he meaneth first nay doth hee call him first at all in any sense In my Eusebius I finde no such matter What is in yours I cannot tell I reade but this Petrus Apostolus cum primus Antiochenam Ecclesiam fundasset Romam mittitur vbi Euangelium praedicans xxv annis eiusdem vrbis Episcopus perseuerat Where Romam mittitur is not much for his greatnesse or that principality you giue vnto him and preaching the Gospell is lesse than that Cyril of Hierusalem calleth him Prince and most excellent of the Apostles I adde the Greeke Text is more for your aduantage 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He that standeth before and is head ouer the Apostles And againe in his xi Catech which belike you neuer read no more I guesse did you the other but tooke it vp on credit by reta 〈…〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Peter Prince as you call him of the Apostles a principall Preacher of the Church Titles of honour Quis negat of great honour I adde such as neuer was any like vnto it but honour and aduancement as it is confined so is it designed how farre whereto in what sense He stood first in ranke hee was chiefe among so was Ioab ouer 30. but not King vpon them or Lord ouer them There is an headship which will not reach that illimited power giuen to the Pope Our Lord Vice-God vpon earth Saint Chrysostome hom 55. in Math. neither calleth him Pastor nor head of the Church Some well-willer of the cause added the words In Greeke wee haue but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a man that was a Fisher But admit both Pastor and Caput too what is it to purpose Wee deny no titles giuen vnto him wee deny your inferences vpon those titles If you will thanke me for it I will helpe you to tenne times as many moe titles as you haue collected as transcendant as any of these and when I haue done to as large and ample giuen to Saint Paul Doe you shew mee but one place of any one Father that giueth him that power you challenge to the Pope I except not Leo nor yet Gregorie and I will subscribe viz. for vniuersalitie of iurisdiction infallibilitie of iudgement and power direct or indirect ouer Kings and Kingdomes This is your Helena First chiefe great or greatest will not content you nor satisfie ambition now in the russe Vndertake this trifle not out the time in pleading so idlely and vainely for Saint Peters prerogatiues which wee the Church of England deny not VIII That Saint Peters faith hath failed ANd yet Saint Peter denied Christ Dare you deny that Belike in your opinion and new diuinitie a man may deny Christ and his faith not fayle Turne Turke and his faith not faile onely turne Protestant and his faith faileth But wee must hold it howsoeuer for it is contrary to our owne Bible Luke 22. 3. I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not Your Proselites may know you are an Empostor That propose it in these words so opposite to Scripture and euent That leaue it so suspence without distinction Saint Peters faith fayled after this very prayer and assurance and yet Christ obtained what hee did pray for God heard him euer how can you reconcile this Your Masters consider Saint Peter two wayes euen in this prayer made by our Sauiour for him as a priuate man as a publique person or as they loue to speake Head of the Church As a priuate person Christ did pray for him that though his faith fell totally for a time it yet might not faile eternally and for euer as Iudas failed and fell and hee was heard in that he prayed for Peter denied but repented hee
ciuill state of men but which doe also touch Religion and Piety Thus he so we in our Profession ouer all persons in all causes Not In all Causes alone and singular as you traduce vs. Hoc posito Now see wee your Texts of Scripture contrary to this in our owne Bibles 1 Tim. 2. 11. Let the woman learne in silence with all subiection Therefore a woman heire or otherwise cannot be Gouernour in her Realmes Doe you thinke that the Lady Infanta no Protestant Princesse will be so confinde because shee may not say Masse nor speake in the Congregation therefore as Dutchesse of Burgundy or Countesse of Flaunders may shee not meddle with the State Marke your owne words But I suffer not a woman to teach nor to vsurpe authority ouer the man Therefore shee cannot be supreame Gouernesse Let Catholicke Ladies looke to this Such Fellowes if they had their due would haue their mouthes gag'd with an halter I their tongues cut out and cast to Dogges If this were intended by Saint Paul I maruell why the Eunuch returning home into Ethiopla did not put downe Candace from being Queene If you take it not as you speake it for Equiuocators say one thing and meane another generally of all authority nor yet of any subiection but as Saint Paul restraineth it onely to Teaching and speaking in the Church we subscribe vnto you wee are of the same minde with you we say the same thing that you doe but then wee call your honesty into question and affirme you deale perfidiously with vs in belying vs and falsly with your Proselites in seducing them Did euer any Allen or Saunders or Parsons or Kellison heare Queene Elizabeth Preach Did euer any see her administer the Sacraments take vpon her to expound Scripture appoint Faith or denounce Excommunication Shee claimed and might and had authority commanding coerciue coactiue ouer Church-men Did shee euer challenge or vse it or was it giuen her in Church-seruice as Saint Tecla did and Saint Katherine of Siena in your Legends as Pope Ioane did if there sate such a strumpet in Saint Peters Chayre as Prioresses and Abbesses haue and exercise by your Canon Law or with Dispensations An Abbatesse may command the Priests that are subiect to her to excommunicate her rebelling Nunnes and the Priests are bound to obey her So Tabiena Armilla Panormitane Astensis The Canonists are of this minde saith Stephanus de Aluin that the dignity of Prelacy and excellency of Office may giue to Ecclesiasticall women therefore howsoeuer to women spirituall and Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction which they may enioy not onely by right delegated and committed vnto them but by ordinary also Now good Sir Gagger how digest you this good Catholicke Doctrine gaue wee euer so much to Queene Elizabeth Is this according to your Bibles or are your Bibles and ours not the same That of 1 Cor. 14. 34. is not cited according to our Bibles of the last Transation which you yet pretend to follow and howsoeuer cited it is not to purpose onely it discloseth your leud demeanor Saint Paul forbiddeth women to speake or teach in Churches so doe we And in conuenticles also you may see it inquirable presentable punishable in our visitations if any such presume to expound or interpret Scripture in priuate Houses You may sooner heare Pope Vrban preach then any Woman with vs to execute any function Ecclesiasticall who with you doe ordinarily baptize For satisfaction to poore misled Catholikes in this point if yet they will be satisfied take the resolution of our Church Art 37. The Queenes Maiesty it was made you know in Queene Elizabeths time hath the chiefe power in this Realme of England and other her Dominions vnto whom the chiefe gouernement of all Estates of this Realme whether they be Ecclesiasticall or ciuill in all causes doth appertaine and is not nor ought to be subiect to any forraigne iurisdiction 2. Where wee attribute to the Queenes Maiestie the chiefe gouernment by which titles wee vnderstand the mindes of some slanderous folke to be offended wee giue not to our Princes the ministring either of Gods Word or of the Sacraments The which iniunctions also lately set forth by Elizabeth our Queene doe most plainly testifie But that onely prerogatiue which wee see to haue beene giuen alwayes to all godly Princes in holy Scriptures by God himselfe that is that they should rule all estates and degrees committed vnto their charge by God whether they be Ecclesiasticall or temporall and restraine with the Ciuill Sword the stubborne and euill doers This is all that Queene Elizabeth had or challenged Publike Records publike notice publike testimony of the State and all that then liued are of greater credit I hope with all moderate and honest Romish Catholikes then the leud lying aspersions of a partiall Factionist such as this Fellow is and many of his companions are who haue taken vp this course as of inheritance and kinde to dare say any thing in despight of honesty and truth in ordine ad Deum for the Catholicke cause X. That Antichrist shall not be a particular man and that the Pope is Antichrist THat Antichrist was to come and so prophecied of that he is called That man of sinne is in my Creed and an Article of my Beliefe as being plainly and directly expressed such in Scripture And this I know no Protestant but beleeueth But whether he was to be One particular man or a State a succession opposite to Christ I know no Article Canon or Iniunction that tyeth mee to beleeue The Church of England leaueth me to my opinion Euery man may abound in his owne sence and beleeue it or not beleeue it as he will For who dareth peremptorily define what God himselfe hath not but left at liberty The Fathers I grant runne most vpon one man So doe your Masters of the Roman Church The Protestant Writers doe most of them encline rather to a Succession and a state of men but not all Not all so peremptorily as not to encline notwithstanding vnto one man who more then any of his rank shall oppose himselfe to Christ in that state and Succession Antichristian vnto whom all those markes and descriptions set downe in holy Scripture shall perfectly agree as Zanchius and many others doe hold For in point of Prophecie and that so obscure as this vntill plaine euent doe make it manifest iudgements doe and may well sauing the peace of the Church vary nor should wee condemne or censure Dissenters any way from our priuate opinions Whether the Pope bee that Antichrist or not the Church resolueth not tendreth it not to be beleeued any way Some I grant are very peremptory too peremptory indeed that he is He for instance that wrote and printed it I am as sure that the Pope is Antichrist that Antichrist spoken of in Scripture as that Iesus Christ is God But they that are so resolute peremptory and certaine let them answere for themselues they
so C. W. B. quoted them vnto your hand all that you could doe was to part him from the Fellowship and bring him in alone in this particular And yet he hath nothing for supererogation His plea is for possibility to keepe the Law of which in due place Now keeping of the Law reflecteth vpon Precept Precepts and Counsels in your owne Learning by your owne Confession are two distinct seuerals Your prooses out of Scripture were all for Counsels not Precepts and now Saint Chrysostome is summoned to speake for Precepts the possibility of keeping them So What would this man haue what would he say who floateth betwixt Counsels and Precepts thus vncertaine vp and downe he knoweth not whether XVI That by the fall of Adam wee haue lost all our free will and that it is not in our owne power either to choose good or euill AQuestion of obscurity which better might haue beene ouer-passed in silence fitting rather Schooles then popular eares especially the differences hanging on such niceties and the controuerted particulars of no great moment in fine vpon due examination For it is confessed that free will is a Power of the reasonable Soule and peculiar vnder Heauen to man which is indued with freedome to doe or not to doe whereby they make choyce of one end rather then of another and of some meanes rather then of other vpon aduice and deliberation of the vnderstanding chiefe Councellor to the will This Power was conferred vpon man at first in the day of his Creat on when he was made a liuing Soule In state of Nature intire a naturall faculty not any supernaturall endowment at all whereby most freely and absolutely he was Lord of his owne actions and could doe or not doe what he pleased and would That liberty was much empaired by sinne not extinct or amolished in corrupted Nature such as now it is The Councell of Trent rightly so defineth it Sess 6. Cant. 5. And we professe Non amissimus Naturam sed gratiam As rightly is it by that Counsell determined Liberum arbitrium non quidem extinctum esse sed viribus attenuatum The question is all of these vires remaining and quatenus attenuatum liberum arbitrium The Church of England Artic. 10. concludeth thus The condition of man after the fall of Adam is such that he cannot turne nor prepare himselfe by his owne naturall strength and good workes to faith and calling vpon God Wherefore we haue no power to doe good workes pleasant and acceptable vnto God without the grace of God by Christ preuenting vs that we may haue a good will and working with vs when we haue that good will Man is here considered in a two-fold state of Nature depraued and restored In that Free-will is denyed vnto man for workes of righteousnesse before conuersion not for workes of Nature or of Morality In the second Free-will is granted vnto man When we haue that good will what is it else and By our Free-will assisted by Grace worke out our saluation vnto the end This is not that opinion condemned in the Councell of Trent Sess 6. Can. 5. which taketh away free-will from man after preuenting Grace in cooperation vnto increase of Grace for it is said that Grace infused first and had worketh together with our good will So it is not denyed but free-will is In vs subsisting not in title onely It is not said that by the â—all of Adam wee haue vtterly lost all of vs our free-will as if the Soule were cleane defeated and disfurnished of that Power So that this blunderer stumbleth at a straw and impudently belyeth our Profession What some haue thought or taught is nothing to vs. No Church is to be charged with priuate opinions Man in state of Corruption hath freedome of will in Actions Naturall and Ciuill Secondly Man in state of Corruption hath free-will in matters Morall Thirdly Man hath free-will in Actions of Piety and such as belong vnto his saluation But quatenus and quale is the Question as much amongst your selues as with vs. For the concurrence of Grace assisting with Free-will The correspondency of Free well with Prescience Prouidence and Predestination is much debated in your owne Schooles Intricate Disputes are hereupon inferred Questions almost inextricable such as Armachanus studied twenty yeeres to resolue one of them and was faine to giue it ouer without an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I haue found it Wee resolue thus farre First with Saint Augustine Lib. 1. cont 2. Epistolas Pelagianorum cap. 2. Quis nostrum dicit quod primi hominis peccato perierit arbitrium de humano genere Libertas quidem perijt per peccatum sed illa quae in Paradiso fuit habendi plenaÌ„ cum immortalitate iustitiam Doth any of vs affirme that Free-will is perished vtterly from man by the fall of Adam Freedome is perished I grant by sinne but that freedome which was in Paradise of hauing righteousnesse with immortality Againe we confesse with the same Saint Augustine Man is not meerely passiue in all workes of Grace to glory For Qui creauit te sine te non saluabit te siâ—e te He that made thee alone without thy helpe will not saue thee alone without thy concurrance Man is to worke that will haue reward In Conclusion the Condition of Man since the fall of Adam is such that he cannot turne nor prepare himselfe to God by or through his owne naturall or humane power and strength This is the Doctrine of the Church of England Preuented by Grace and assisted therewith he then putteth to his hand to procure augmentation of that Grace and continuance vnto the end No man commeth to God but hee is drawen Drawen hee runneth or walketh as his assistance is and his owne agility and disposition to the end This is enough And the wisdome of the Church hath not ventured farre to put a tye of Obedience vpon mens beliefe in points of inextricable obscurity almost of the concordance in working of Grace and Predestination with Free-will Moderate spirits would well and wisely sit them downe by temperate courses and not clamor without rage where is no cause nor delight to set the Peace of the Church on hurres onely for faction and some priuate sinister indirect ends of their owne Contrary to our owne Bibles it is not which we reade 1 Cor. 7. 37. He that standeth sted fast in his heart hauing no necessity but hath power ouer his owne will and hath so decreed that he will keepe his Virgin doth well So it is confessed he doth and that hee may haue power so to doe For it is not absolute as if euery one had such Power but Conditionall If any haue such Power The Apostic saith That man hath Power if he be not tyed which Text may as well demolish as build vp Free-will For here is supposed at least some time an ouer-awing and ouer-commanding Necessity or Coaction Again this Freedome specified here is but in
the greatest Faith that can be without it is nothing As if it were not in euery Protestants mouth and confessed by these opposers that howbeit Faith alone doth iustifie yet not that Faith which is alone doth iustifie Fides sola but not solitaria Faith that is without Charitie doth not iustifie but Faith may yet iustifie without Charitie They haue their seuerall distinct acts and the act of Faith is to iustifie though both are vertues incident to a iust man As if the Protestants that affirme onely Faith doth iustifie did withall maintaine that all Faith did iustifie or as if hee that proposeth a thing conditionally must needes imply the condition to be reall and true It is a supposition if I had all Faith c. but a supposition of impossibility For it is impossible that all Faith should be without Charitie though some may be and is without it Beside I can answere that the Faith which iustified when it did iustifie to admit the Supposition of possibilitie was not then without Charitie though afterwards it was For in your opinion iustifying Faith may diminish and abolish and be lost Now iustification being in an instant may eftsoones be lost againe Why not and so a seperation of Faith and Loue. Secondly it is contrary to Iam. 2. 24. You see then how that by workes a man is iustified and not by Faith only In this poynt of Iustification as mine and thine are the common barretters of the World so Faith and good Workes haue broken the peace It is the errour of the Protestants say the Papists that Faith onely iustifieth It is the errour of the Papists say the Protestants that Workes doe iustifie Flat ad oppositum at least in tormes And whether should a man belieue Nay more this difference seemeth very ancient and in being when those names of opposition Protestants and Papists were not heard of in the world For Saint Paul saith By Faith without the workes of the Law And Saint Iames saith as positiuely by Workes and not alone by Faith Scripture against Scripture Apostle against Apostle Paul against Iames Iames against Paul Is Christ diuided or the Spirit irresolued or at oddes God forbid At oddes they were then as wee are now I would that wee were at no more oddes now than they then were Controuersies soone might be at an end and Christs Coate diuided soone made vp againe which is dismantled with new rentts daily Saint Paul had great contentions all dayes of his life in the whole course of his ministery with halfe-Christians false-Christians those of Concision as hee termeth them That neged as necessary vnto Saluation workes and obseruing of the Law As if Christ without them did not profit any thing against these hee aduaunceth the excellency and worth of Faith and depresseth the condition of any or all those works of the Law whereupon they insisted on which they relied whereof they gloried Saint Iames on the other side opposeth as much Simon Magus Menander their adherents and that damnable Sect of the Gnosticks that liuing in all brothelry and horrid impieties cast off all care and opinion and account of good workes as being for imperfect ones for simple ones and beginners in Christianity not to be regarded or insued of by themselues who would be counted perfect men in their Generations and through Faith alone as they pretended of neete acquaintance and alliance with God Against these Saint Iames opposeth the necessitie of workes But neither doth Saint Paul deny workes to the Regenerate nor Saint Iames deny the act of Faith Secondly I answere here that Saint Paul speaketh of Iustification in attaining it which in respect of man is confessed to be the act of Faith Saint Iames of Iustification now obtayned which necessarily is not seperate from workes Iustus factus through the Grace of Christ is Iustus declaratus by his holy life and conuersation And so Saint Iames is expounded by your selues or else hath accesse of Iustification as it is also taught by your owne men Iames 2. 14. What doth it profit though a man saith hee hath faith and hath no workes Can faith saue him Nothing at all Not at all For a better saith then that which Saint Iames meant the Faith of the Gnostiques the Deuils had Beside it is a faith onely supposed presumed and in opinion If a man say he hath faith A manifest insinuation it was not reall A Faith boasted of but not had So that this Faith and that other of the Protestants Caelo solo disparantur Nor can they be compared as they are For the Faith of the Protestants generall or speciall I dispute not now is a Faith wrought and infused by God through the Grace of Christ Liuing liuely actiue fruitfull declaring the roote by the good fruit they neuer seperate them in their Doctrine And your men doe blame them because they neuer seperate the Spring and water-course Faith and good workes but they professe it must and doth worke by Loue. And therefore it is a lying imputation that good workes are not necessary to Saluation All Writers old and new as Cassander saith in generall doe with ioynt consent teach that Faith must bring forth the fruit of good workes Otherwise It is a dead faith without workes And hee produceth the Confession of the Protestants thus Fatendum est haec opera quae à iustificatis fiunt ad salutem id est regnum Dei vitam aeternam consequendam esse necessaria iuxta illud si vis ad vitam ingredi serua mandata It must be confessed that the workes which are done of iustified men are necessary to obtaine Saluation that is to purchase the Kingdome of God aâ—deternall life according vnto that If thou wilt enter into life keepe the Commandements And the Church of England expressely teacheth Artic. 12. Albeit that good workes which are the fruits of faith and follow after Iustification cannot put away sinnes and indure the seueritie of Gods iudgement yet are they pleasing and acceptable to God in Christ and doe necessarily spring out from a true and liuely Faith Insomuch as that by them a true and liuely faith may as euidently be knowne as a Tree is discerned by the fruit I adde as this mans Spirit is discerned by his lying That of Matth. 7. 22. is so farre from being expresse in the point that it is farre from being to purpose It is not for iustifying of a sinner by workes but rather for relapsing of one iustified by Grace See Fathers that affirme the same Namely that which wee doe teach that Faith alone iustifieth For so all these three named doe Origen Hilary and Ambrose Origen saith Cassander clearely declareth in his Commentaries vpon the Epistle to the Romans Solâ fide absque operibus aliquos fuisse iustificatos That some haue beene iustified by Faith alone without any workes at all The Theefe vpon the Crosse was not saued by workes which hee had not Faith alone saued him
peccare nequid 〈…〉 deterius fiat Salomon denique Saul caeteri multi quam diu in vijs Domini ambulauerunt datam sibi gratiam tenere potuerunt recedente ab ijs disciplinâ Dominica recessit gratia Goulartius here talketh to no purpose in the Cloudes totally or finally it skilleth not the Grace of God departed away from them therefore they lost their Faith in Saint Cyprians iudgement by which they stood at first in Gods fauour And in Nazianzens too who writeth thus of Saul in his Apologie vnto his Father Pag. 37. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Annoynted hee was and made partaker of the holy Spirit and then at that time was Spirituall I dare not speake otherwise of him Nay more then so hee prophecyed And yet for all that because hee suffered not himselfe to be wholy and entirely directed by the Spirit nor became perfectly and sincerely another man what neede I relate the Tragicall end which hee vnder-went Saint Hierome forsaketh not his Masters direction Lib. 2. aduersus Pelagianos Ne beatum dixeris quempiam ante mortem Quamdiù enim viuimus in certamine sumus quamdiù in certamine nulla est certa victoria Call no man happy vntill he be dead So long as we liue wee are to striue and contend so long as there is opposition against vs so long we are not assured of the victory And else-where against Iouinian he teacheth that vntill a man repent Faith is cast off by sinne and the party in disfauour with God Saint Augustine proposeth it as an Article of his Creede de Corrept gratiâ 13. Credendum est quosdam de filijs perditionis non accepto dono perseuer andi vsque in finem in fide quae per dilectionem operatur incipere viuere aliquandiù fideliter iustè viuere posteà cadere neque de hac vitâ priusquam eis id contingat auferri And againe Ad quam vocationem pertinere nullus est homo ab hominibus certâ asseueratione dicendus nisi cum de hoc saecule exierit In hac autem vitâ humanâ quae tentatio est super terram qui videtur stare videat ne cadat And lastly Gregory Lib. 6. in primum Regum Quia Iudicium omnipotentis Dei imperscrutabile est vnde veniat quo vadat homo nescit quia sciri non potest an quis in gratia quam recepit perseuerare in perpetuum debeat Because the Iudgements of GOD Almighty are vnsearchable man doth not know either whence hee commeth or whether hee goeth because it cannot be knowne whether a man shall euer stand without falling in that Grace which hee hath receiued It was a Stoicall paradox grounded vpon their fatall necessity and concatenation of Causes that vertues once had cannot be lost at all Seneca thus in his 50 Epistle Semel tradidi boni possessio perpetua est Non dediscitur virtus Fideliter sedent quae in locum suum veniunt Good once had is held for euer in possession Vertue is not againe to bee learned For what thing soeuer hath obtained the proper place resteth therein without alteration If any such necessity be inferred by any it is but opinion not decision priuate opinion not publique resolution which a man may follow or abandon at pleasure not to be blamed for resolution So or so In course of Christianity and seruice of God Finis coronat actus It is the end that crowneth the Act. In mans profession of Loue Feare and Obedience of God Nilâ—praesumitur esse actum dum restat aliquid ad agendum The Law presumeth nothing at all is done so long as resteth any thing to be done Non quid egeris sed quid supersit curandum si dixisti Sufficit Defecisti It is not respected what is already performed by them but what remaineth yet vnfinished If thou say it is enough thou art fallen off and faintest For Leuit 22. Euer the tayle of the whole burnt Offering was offered Many begin to build but doe not all set vp the roofe Many thousands came out of Aegypt but few of them passed ouer Iordan Asa was good till the goâ—te vexed him Ionathan followed the Chace till hee met with Honey Many are good till they haue cause to be badde and then vertunt omnia ad extremum They end in the flesh that begun in the Spirit The Conclusion of all is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 A man is not happy so long as hee liueth because it is vncertaine what shall become of him saith Saint Basil vpon the first Psalme These are the resolutions of many if not most Protestant Diuines as priuate men of Protestant Churches in their Decisions and Resolutions I am sure the Church of England doth not tender it to be taught or belieued that Faith had cannot be lost againe Priuate opinions of men are no Gospels of the Church I am of this opinion another is of that I maintaine Faith cannot be lost totally or finally another verily perswadeth himselfe it may be lost both totally and finally Hee that once was in regard of iustifying Faith and Grace the Childe of God may become the Childe of Sinne Wrath Death Hell and Destruction to neither of these doe I subscribe as de fide being vndecided vndetermined in the Church Lei euery man abound in his owne sense and vnderstanding what is it to mee so be it hee keepe Faith Peace Charitie and a good Conscience The very Church of Geneua it selfe as I was told by one of the chiefe Ministers thereof doth not maintaine these priuate opinions of the principall Pastors of that Church So that what honesty can there be in this rambling Companion who ranketh it with the Errours of the Protestants That Faith had cannot be lost Which if it were an errour as I dispute not that is as much or more opposed by Protestants as propugned As much refelled by Protestants as Papists Sir Gagger to let the World see your ignorance or impudency or both I haue laide these parts together out of Protestant Diuines I iustifie no priuate opinions Those that hold the one or other are old enough let them answere for themselues And so I proceede XXI That God by his will ineuitable decree hath ordained from all eternity who shall bee damned and who saued DAmned and Saued diuide Mankinde Not any hath come forth of the loins of Adam but as this Gaggler will himself confesse is necessarily ranged in one of these Ranks either with the Damned or the Saued Sheep or Goats vpon the left hand or the right But he whosoeuer that is é censa damnandorum vel saluandorum finally and eternally damned or saued as one day actiuely all shall bee is so damned or saued not without God's will according to the purpose of his decree at least consequent though not antecedent who doth whatsoeuer hee will in heauen and earth who worketh all things according to the counsell of his will the highest Rule supremest Law nothing
beyond it against it without it So Damned or Saued are so ordained by God Whatsoeuer God willeth commeth to passe and whatsoeuer commeth to passe commeth so to passe because God hath said So and not otherwise it shall come to passe either positiuely by disposing it or else permissiuely by giuing way and suffering it so to come to passe as it doth come to passe This his will as nor himself began not in time it is and was eternall as he is euer I am not I will be or haue bin Whatsoeuer is done in processe of time was so seen so disposed of and ordered before all Time for he is not measured but by Eternity which is Tota simul perfecta possessio sui The totall and perfect possession of it self If then there bee Damned and Saued as there are God's eternall will did so determine of them their finall estate from all Eternity and after that determination of God they are damned or saued ineuitably not onely according vnto Prescience but also according to Predestination say the Roman schools in which this Fellow would seem to haue sent some idle houres after their fleeing Predecessors What then Why surely the poore man meant well to the Catholique Cause and would say somewhat though no matter what which he did not vnderstand nor could vtter He thought well though he could not handsomly tell his Tale which should haue been marshald thus That God by his sole will and absolute decree hath irrespectiuely resolued and ineuitably decreed some to be saued some to be damned from all Eternity Man in curiosity hath presumed farre vpon and waded deep into the hidden Secrets of the Almighty no-where more or with greater Presumption than where that grand Apostle stood at gaze with O the depth and in consideration cried out How vnsearchable are his waies who yet was admitted into Councell of State and rapt vp into the third heauen In the point of Election for Life and Reprobation vnto Death Protestants and Papists are many wayes at oddes in opposition and each diuided at home amongst themselues not for the Thing which all resolue but for the Manner in which they differ agreeing in the Main that It is so disagreeing on the By How it cometh so as if God meant to reserue no Secrets vnto himself but impart them all to men as if it were not enough to saue some and cast others off but he must giue account of dooing so Some Protestants and no mo but some haue considered God for this effect of his will in reference to Peter and Iudas thus that Peter was saued because that God would haue him saued absolutely and resolued to saue him necessarily because hee woâ—ld so and no further that Iudas was damned as necessarily because that God as absolute to decree as om 〈…〉 ipotent to effect did primarily so resolue concerniâ—g him and so determine touching him without respect of any thing but his owne will insomuch that Peter could not perish though he would nor Iudas be saued doo what he could This is not the doctrine of the Protestants the Lutherans in Germany detest and abhorre it It is the priuate fansie of some men I grant but what are Opinions vnto Decisions priuate Opinions vnto receiued and decided doctrines The Church of England hath not taught it doth not beleeue it hath opposed it wisely contenting herself with this Quoúsque and Limitation Art 17. We must receiue God's promises in such wise as they be generally set forth to vs in holy scripture and not presuming to determine of When How Wherfore or Whom Secrets reserued to God alone So this Goose the Gagger may put his Gag into the Bils of many of his owne Gaggle as well as into others Lagges who presume as farre and wander as wide sometime as they do though more couertly in their tearms Our Bible in expresse words saith what we beleeue it teacheth not contrary to that which is resolued in the Church of England the positiue doctrine wherof is no other but what this Wittall confirmeth out of Scripture that God at the beginning made not death as Wisd 1. 13. because she hath learned out of S. Paul that Through sinne death came into the world whereof God was neither Aurthor nor Abettor but Hee the Father of lies a Lier a Murderer from the beginning in procuring the Fall of man Sinne being entred and by sinne death and so all mankinde in the Masse of perdition God fitted and prepared a Restorer a Mediator the Man Christ Iesus that so Whosoeuer beleeued in him should not perish but haue euer lasting life out of his mercy both free and meer because he was not willing that any should perish but all should come vnto Repentance as 2. Pet. 3. 9. and be saued So large was his Mercy so enlarged his Loue that out of his good pleasure it was his will All men to bee saued and to come to knowledge of the Truth Shew a contrary resolution of the Church of England and gag vp my mouth Sir Goose for euer else goe gaggle on the Green For particular opinions So or so aetatem habent let them speak for themselues and so be it they rent not the peace of the Church let them abound in their priuate senses I nor teach nor beleeue any such Paradox nor the Church whereof I am and you should be a Member positiuely Wee need see no more except to more purpose the places are adrem but touch not vs. They speak home and to purpose which they should declare but we are not interest in opposition Vrge them against those who do vndertake to maintain that men are damned necessarily See Fathers we may but wee shall not need wee beleeue what they should say and go hand in hand with what they doo say dogmatically but see them all we cannot if we would vnlesse we would go seek when we need not and if wee would might blowe the seeke for some of them and after long search be neuer the neer in finding them For Saint Augustine what or where wil you tell vs or are you able to informe vs that hee affirmeth You mean he affirmeth somewhat in his first Book of the City of God and I knowe he doth more by much than you can report me You haue had some acquaintance with some Particulars there as you met them by chance in your perambulation of some trans-scripts of other mens Notes and haue now forgotten where and what Else what man but such a Scribbler would so loosely in a point of opposition and therefore like enough of examination haue referred vs to Saint Austen in his first Book de Dei Ciuitate Something you would say I knowe not what and therefore till you let me knowe I say nothing to what you haue said I cannot tell how I haue seene and read Tertullian in that place remembred expounding that Petition in our Lords Prayer Lead vs not into temptation who
proposeth it resolued and de fide and I knowe no man that doubteth of it that God tempteth no man Quasi aut ignoret fidem cuiusque aut deijcere sit consentiens as out of Ignorance what hee can performe or as consenting to vndoe him But this passage there is nothing in Tertullian that I can ghesse at that we should see And Sir doth this passage come home to purpose of decree vnto life or death Or knowe you any Protestant not so perswaded No thou fore-head of brass and tongue of Say wee are fully resolued with Tertullian that Diaboli est infirmitas et malitia beeing taught by the Prophet to professe Our destruction is of our selues our saluation of the Lord. S. Cyprian they may see that think it worth their labour Lib. 4. Epist 2. or as other Editions haue it Epist 52. and there is nothing to purpose but by consequence hauing cited that saying euen now remembred Wisd 1. 13. God made not death thus he inferreth against the Nouatians rigorous men that denied repentance to lapsed Christians after Baptism Vtique qui neminem vult perire cupit peccatores poenitentiam agere et per poenitentiam denuo ad vitam redire Because he would not that any should perish his desire is that Sinners should repent and by Repentance reuert to life againe Doe Protestants deny Returne of the Lapsâ—d vnto God or Grace to Repentants after Fall If we doe this testimony may gagge our mouthes if not as we do not then gaggeth it your owne mouth Sir Goose Saint Ambrose will not nor Saint Augustine nor any else whose brains are his owne as yours are not God fore-sawe it in Adam and in Iudas but Prescience inferreth not Predestination For not because foreseene therefore effected but because effected therefore foreseene The Treason of Iudas the Fall of Adam God fore-sawe and suffred this is certaine God was Author of neyther Positiuely That Good which they had they had from God this Woe and Vnhappinesse came from themselues Priuate opinions we vndertake not you should not in discretion much lesse in honesty impute it vnto vs. Your ayme is against the Church of England Quarrell that if you can vndertake against it if you dare For what my word is past I will make it good against all your Bandogges of Belzebub whatsoeuer That Church maintaineth nothing against the Faith of the antient Church of Christ resolued on for 500 yeeres XXII That euery one ought infallibly to assure himselfe of his saluation and to hold that he is of the number of the Predestinate NOw you ramble indeed your penne runs too fast your malice sent your wit I suppose on wooll-gathering Where finde you this conclusion in the Church of England where in any mans mouth or writings in the Church of England that Euery one ought so to assure himselfe Hee that saith Euery one excepteth none not genera singulorum any kinde of men not singulos generum no particular man Be you well in your wits to bely your selfe in belying of vs and so soone to forget what you said but now For those that maintaine as you say the Protestants doe that some are damned and some are saued by an ineuitable decree cannot bee of opinion except their braines were made like yours of the pap of an apple that Euery one ought infallibly to assure himselfe of his saluation which implieth a contradiction vnto that other Tenet So that in one of these two auoyd it if you can you haue belyed your selfe to bely vs. And bely vs you do For where do you find it thus concluded by the Church of England Answere on your Honesty if you can nay bely them you doe that come somewhat to your purpose whose priuate opinions you make publique decisions of Faith Bellarmine your grand Dictator of controuersies from whose tables you or your Informers haue swept together all these scrappes and fragments in your bare abbridgement proposeth the assertion honestly and truly in restrained tearms of Verè fidelis and Iustificatus That not Euery one but Euery true beleeuer ought so to be assured that no man is or can bee so assured but the man that is iustified before God And that is not euery one as you bely them They teach not that euery man is iustified This opinion is an inference vpon that former of Necessity of Election vnto life and therefore those Protestants who make not the former an Article of their Creed build vpon no such infallibility vnto themselues nor prescribe it to be beleeued of others And those that so doe are not peraduenture so forlorne as such a simple man as you may imagine hauing Papists of reckoning to beare them company and Fathers Reasons and Scriptures therefore Ambrose Catharine was no Baby as great a Stickler as any in the Councell of Trent in his owne opinion superior to most in all mens iudgement inferior to none who for ought I knowe went as farre as any in particular and ordinary assurance of saluation Before In After the Councell of Trent against Dominicus a Soto that maintained the contrary Silly man as you are you can play in ambiguities and talk at randome freely when no man is neere to oppose or contradict you Your Masters can teach you that Assurance is twofold in this discourse In respect of the Obiect knowne belieued in regard of the Subject beleeuing knowing As man relieth vpon his Euidence or as is his Euidence to rely vpon Euidence is diuine or humane from God or Man Euidence diuine if apprehended is euer certaine and infallible both for the necessity of our object God in whom is nor change nor shadow of change as also for the manner of determining the Euidence whereby that is certaine and necessary for effect which is but contingent otherwise in it selfe Euidence most cleere assurance most certaine in it selfe is contingent vncertaine as we may both vse it or dispose it that are heere and there of and on because man is irresolute in his waies and vnconstant in his works God is to vs as wee are to him knowne as farre as wee can reach to apprehend him Thus then for those men that assert infallibility of assurance Their meaning may bee for ought you know I am sure for ought you haue said to the contrary that in regard of God faithfull and true in respect of his promises Yea and Amen euery Childe of God renued by Grace may and ought infallibly assure himselfe of his owne Saluation procured in Christ who yet in regard of his owne Infirmity and Inconstancy cannot chuse but wauer in his assurance and feare the worst though he hope the best This was Austens resolution if Bellarmine say right Ex promissione Christi potest vnusquisque vt S. Augustinus rectè docet colligere se transusse à morte ad vitam et in iudicium non ventre Euery man may collect thus out of the promise of Christ but with what assurance the question is thereto
Saint Augustine doth not proceed Weresolue saith he there that a man may collect it by infallible assurance and diuine if wee looke into the faithfulnesse of him that promiseth but if wee consider our owne disposition we assigne no more but probable and coniectural assurance This Bellarmine assigneth This is enough Faction may transport a man to wrangle for more but when once they ioyne issue the difference will not be much Much or little great or small thus or so the Church of England is not touched that designeth neither Vngratefull Colt you are that spurne with your heeles at the brests that gaue you life if not to God yet to nature and impute more vnto her then she meant or intended to determine or maintaine Indeed contrary as you bely them consonant agreeing as they beleeue and maintaine They neuer went against these words of Saint Paul 1. Cor. 9. 27. Lest by any meanes when I preached to others I my selfe should be a Cast-away But they say you mistake and mis-apply those words and therein goe against your owne Directors For their Tenet is that Saint Paul was assured of his saluation whether by ordinary diuine Faith or extraordinary diuine Reuelation I enquire not at present nor much care I take which you ignorantly doo contradict or vnlearnedly doo oppose Secondly you oppose plain Scripture in your Bibles for Saint Paul a Iew by birth as Bellarmine resolueth semper se in numero Electorum point cùm de Praedestinatione loquitur Rom. 8. 9 11. Eph. 1. accounteth himself euer in the Roll of Elect wheresoeuer he mentioneth Predestination as in the 8. 9 11. chapters to the Romans and 1. to the Ephesians And yet say you He was not assured infallibly He dissembled therfore thought one thing said another So much is That Apostle beholding to you They neuer went against him that you intend in those other two Texts of Rom. 11. 20. Philip. 2. 12. For to him that continueth faithfull vnto the end is appointed the reward of eternall life And yet it is possible and I could doo it to puzzle such a Lozzell as your self with expositions of those Texts that might well put off your application but I vndertake no priuate opinions or peculiar interest I iustifie no man but the Church of England That I can doo against your Betters that I will perform against your self A cleanly Put-off but too common and therefore to be smiled-at for your pouerty You will not labour to ouerthrowe it by proof of Fathers For why Your good Patrons were themselues to-seek and you haue but reuersions from other meâ—â— trenchers If it were so improbable as you would haue vs suppose it Catharine could not haue maintained it as he hath done nor put Dominicus à Soto no Baby so to it as I knowe hee hath nor backed it with authorities of Austen and others If so improbable I maruell the Councell of Trent did so hardly passe it and two Legates of three or foure at most professe it went too soon out of their fingers and came to resolution before it had throughly been decided What Spirit directed that Councell in this where the Principall in a sort complains of surreption This I haue from no Heretick Catharine related it from their mouthes He you haue heard was an Arch-bishop of great name and as learned as many were in Trent But I proceed XXIII That euery one hath not his Angell-keeper THis fellow it seemeth had but little emploiment when he vndertook to abridge our Controuersies he is so apt and disposed to enlarge them and set them at odds who would willingly haue been quiet Such Boutifeus as he is hinc ad malam crucem quibus quieta moâ—ere magna merces that loue to see the waters troubled and take the very questioning of things that might rest a sufficient hire to set them on worke that the Father of Diuision may applaude them and crie Oh well done For concerning Angell-keepers what needed this Thesis A thing not defined in any Councell no not in that last Conuenticle of Trent because free and in Opinion euery way The most that can be sayd against Opposers is that of Vasques disputing this Diuinitie probleme Sine graui temeritatis notâ negare non licet VVee cannot deny without very great rashnes that euery man hath his Angell-keeper To this I subscribe with all my heart so doth the Church of England for ought I knowe Indeede I do not finde Decision or Resolution one way or other in the Confession publike of our Church No more do I in any Councell generall or particular to my remembrance in any age The reason is no man did question it all held it a truth and what needed decision where no scruple was The opinion of the antient Schoole the Fathers of the Church is positiue and affiâ—matiue for Angel-Keepers the saying of Saint Augustine is well knowne Parum est fecisse Angelos tuos fecisti et custodes parâ—ulorum It sufficed not my God that thou madest them thine Angels thou createdst them keepers of the little ones The later Schoole runnes mightily the same way though both with some differences How and To Whom and when deputed Before Origens time and he liued long within 300 yeeres after Christ as himselfe relateth Tract 5. vpon Saint Mathew there were two different opinions in the Church The former maintained that onely those had Angell-keepers deputed vnto them who were of the number of Gods elect from the first instant of their Natiuity The other that none but such holy men indeed had Angel-guardians but from the day of their Baptisme and new Birth in Christ assigned them not before or from their Natiuitie This was the opinion of Antiquitie and no more not as the Church of Rome hath enlarged it that Euery man liuing good and bad from the verie first instant of life to the last gaspe hath an Angel-guardian deputed vnto him as I could make manifest if need were and Basil is punctuall and expresse vpon the 33. Psal page 221. and the 48. Psal page 247. Nor doth the Master of Sentences otherwise conceiue it then Vt quisque Electorum habeat Angelum ad sui protectum atque custodiam specialiter deputatum In 2. d. 11. So that hic Magister non tenetur our Roman Vndertakers haue forsaken not alone the Fathers but their owne Doctor Peter Lumbard to enlarge the point And yet this giddy Goose-gaggler must prate he knoweth not what against the Church of England concerning Angell-keepers in this point who with as good reason and to as great purpose mought haue stirred touching Guardians of Kingdomes Cities Corporations Elements and ordering of the world touching the time when the maner how the extent how farre and many other like speculations all disputed of among Diuines in the Church none resolued of as de fide by Diuines for the Church So that had we denied it no such great matter for salus Ecclesiae non
Church of England doth vnto Angell-keepers will not stand with you for it that orant pro nobis not onely in genere but in particulari Your desire is onely for priuate aduantage to keep a Faction on foot and therefore you flutter in dubious tearms Holy Angels pray not for vs which is or true or false as it may be taken XXV That we may not pray vnto them PRay to them if you like it or to Saint Loiola if you please we cannot hinder you from playing the fools and exposing your selues to bee laughed-at for your labours I say as Iosua sometime said in a case not very much vnlike Call vpon what Saints or Angels you will go serue Baal or Astaroth if you fansie it We in the Church of England will call vnto the Lord of Heauen and Earth by immediate addresse without intercession of Mediators hauing warrant most sufficient by direction and inuitation Psalm 50. 15. Call vpon me in the time of trouble so I will beare thee and deliuer thee Doo you knowe any man so vnaduised that will go about when hee may well go streight or will sue for assistance and that also vncertain when he needeth none Perhaps there is no such great impiety in saying Sancte Laurenti ora pro me but in my opinion till I am better informed it is grand foolery to say Sancta Catharina ora pro me where I may say cum effectu vnto God himself Miserere mei Deus Lord haue mercy vpon me If you might haue accesse vnto his Holinesse at pleasure would you vse the mediation of Cardinall Barberino if there bee any such though the Pope's Nephew I suppose not if you did I say no more but The Vicar of Saint Fooles be your ghostly father But our Bible is against our Doctrine In good time how so For Iacob saith Gen. 48. 16. The Angell which redeemed mee you read deliuereth mee from all euill blesse these Lads where first you bely your owne reading You read Angelus qui er uit me Is that deliuereth in the present Tense in your Grammar It is to all but you in the Time past that hath deliuered Now what such difference that it should bee noted betwixt deliuered and redeemed indeed that hath taken me out Secondly read it how you will it is not to purpose You propose it thus That we may not you proue the lawfulnes quia factum so you may proue theft murder and what not It is a priuate fact of Iacob there related by Moses and the Acts no not of the best men are no rules of actions vnto others We should liue by Precept not by Practice Our Sauiour said not What seest thou but What readest thou But thirdly I will take no such exception I admit it ruleable euery way Iacob did well wee may doo so as Iacob did and yet not pray to Angels Therefore fourthly I answer contradictorily to your inference This is not spoken to but of an Angell secondly not of a created Angel but of Christ Thirdly Christ is a true Angell This Fellow must go learn to speak before hee write what to put in Print before hee publish it to vnderstand Diuinity before he babble in it Is Christ an Angell and not a true one Is he a false or a counterfet Angell in appearance in collusion not in substance Who euer heard such Stuffe from a Priest's lips Christ is an Angell not created a true Angell of an higher alloy Prince of Angels as of men a mighty Angell The Angell of the Couenant And this was spoken of him by the Patriarch Iacob The God of Bethel as hee is called that spake with Iacob in Bethel and met him there who wrastled with him who blessed him who told not his name being secret spoken of him by commemoration not vnto him by inuocation That Angell which deliuered mee blesse these The man had I knowe not how some intimation from some other that we would reply that this Angell heer specified as indeed wee beleeue it was Christ himself and no created Angell and therefore to gag our mouthes hee preuents our answer that in the opinion of Saint Basil Chrysostome and Hierome it was not Christ but a created Angell and therefore who for shame can say he praied not to him Wisely I warrant you as if it could not bee auoyded but he was then prayed vnto because in the opinion of these men hee was a created Angell which is no consequence except it were granted that none but created Angels were to bee prayed vnto on any hand at any time vpon any occasion Now who for shame will thus reason to shame himselfe but hee that eyther is past shame or through ignorance not capable of it It is good to vncase such a Mountebanke that he may be knowne what he is But I go from him to this the point in question These Fathers opined That Angel was not Christ but a created Angel and what then As if as many were not of a contrary opinion But were it not so no more can be collected then this that in some mens opinioÌ„ Iacob spake of a created angel thence in some mens opinion not by any expresse words of our Bibles which we were promised to haue this was not Christ Which if it were so as this Gagger can neuer proue it so I will vndertake against him if hee dare yet wee answer first Then it was Iacobs Guardian at least as Tostatus and Iesuites that I haue seene imagine Now the case of Angels-keepers in point of Aduocation Inuocation is much different from other Angels not Guardians as being continually attendant alway at hand though inuisibly therfore though we might say Sancte Angele Custos ora pro me it followeth not we may say Sancte Gabriel ora pro me But lastly heere is no Inuocation nor Intercession nor praying vnto any Angell Custos or not Custos ordinary or extraordinarily attendant It is a desire directed by Iacob vnto God to send his Angel for that seruice and employment to blesse keep those Lads It is no addresse vnto that Holy Angel whosoeuer he was Which being so so far from express words pretended were not this fellow past all shame he would shame to say Iacob prayed vnto an Angel But of this and this Question elsewhere more at large Thither gang this Gaggler and I shall gag him I am sure in this point of praying vnto Angels and Saints XXVI That the Angels cannot help vs. SEale vp thy Lips for euer thou lying tongue Said euer any Protestant Angels cannot helpe vs Name mee the man that may thus bee blotted or hot burning coles bee thy portion thou Lyer and misborne Elâ—e of the Father of lies It is contrary indeed to expresse words of our owne Bibles not alone in the places rightly produced but many moe and more to purpose then some of these are contrary to sense reason beliefe and experience contrary to our teaching our
great likelihood of their saluation to whom the benefit of Christian parentage being giuen the rest that should follow is preuented by some such casualty as man hath no power himself to auoid So that the most this Fellow can impute vnto vs is that In some case of ineuitable and inunicable necessity little infants may bee charitably supposed saued by their parents faith And so that of Iohn 3. 5. for necessity of water will iustifiably bee answered If it bee possible to attaine it That of Tit. 3. 5. vrgeth no more but that the washing of Regeneration is the ordinary entrance into life As for Gen. 17. 14. to admit all paralleld in Circumcision and Baptisme all were not damned that died vncircumcised nor all cast away that die vnbaptized as this Fellow himself will or must grant but those that neglect contemn or omit the meanes which may bee had As for Mark 16. 16. the very words doo support this mitigation for though Christ saith Hee that beleeueth and is baptized shall bee saued yet he doth not say Hee that is not baptized shall be damned but Hee that beleeueth not shall bee damned that being euery way of indispensable necessity this sometime tolerable the rather because we are plainly taught of God that The seed of faithfull parentage is holy from the birth which the children of Pagans are not these hauing an habituall interest and consecration to God in their parents which the other want But whatsoeuer in charitable constructions may be thought of extraordinary courses they are not for vs we must leaue them to God in whose most rigorous courses of constitutions and most sharp denunciations deep mercies are euer hidden who though he bee the God of iustice yet is hee the Father of mercies And yet ordinary waies are for vs and our children Ordinary way vnto life eternall there is none but by Baptisme of water and the holy Ghost Gag them Sir Goose that teach otherwise The Church of England is not guilty thereof XXXIIII That imposition of hands vpon the people called by Catholiques Confirmation is not necessary nor to be vsed NOT by Papists alone but by Protestants also is it called Bishopping or Confirmation not vsed onely by them but by Protestants likewise commended commanded to bee vsed Look in the Communion-book good Reader and wonder at the impudent face of this leud Impostor that dares giue the Lie vnto publick Records that dares tell the world It is midnight at mid-day for if there be then any Sun in heauen this imposition of hands by the Bishop alone called Confirmation is both maintained as necessary vsed and commanded as euery man knoweth in the Church of England Would any man but hee or some of his Camerades take vp the priuate fansie of euery Peddler and expose it to view for Protestants doctrine contrary to knowledge to conscience But so it is If it were not for such courses the poor needy Fellow would haue nothing to prate on vnto his Proselyte-gossips in Partridge-Alley The Lie is so loud the case so apparant for Bishopping or Confirmation I shall not need to say any thing but Blush for shame XXXV That the Bread of the Supper is but a figure of the body of Christ. IS but a signe or figure and no more Strange and yet our formal words are This is my body this is my bloud This is is more than this figureth or designeth A bare figure is but a phantasme He gaue substance and really subsisting essence who said This is my body this is my bloud And yet our Catechisme in the Communion-book authorized saith expresly The body and bloud of Christ taken and eaten in the Lords Supper not the figure or signe of his body and bloud which can neither bee taken nor yet eaten Poore Woodcock or Catholique Cockscomb that sendest a Protestant to seek a figure who is as reall and substantiall as any Papist Were the peace of the Church and vnity of faith which is more mystically insinuated in this Sacrament than else-where in the Materials therof both Bread and Wine so deare and precious as it ought to bee vnto such common Barretters of Christendome as Priests and Iesuites are for priuate ends this and many other Controuersies on foot might cease For it is confessed on either side that Sacraments which haue their Beeing from institution are signes of Gods loue and promise seales of his couenant and grace and instruments and conueiances of his mercy What they intimate signifie and represent they conueigh vnto the soule In the ordinary Catechisme alone allowed and I would no other were tolerated the question beeing asked What meanest thou by this word Sacrament the answer is I mean an outward and visible signe of an inward and spirituall grace giuen vnto vs ordained by Christ himself as a meanes whereby wee receiue the same and a pledge to assure vs thereof This is more euen in your little vnderstanding than a bare figure a means and a pledge whereby c. Sir we acknowledge right willingly and professe that in the blessed Sacrament as you call it of the Altar the Body and Bloud of our Sauiour Christ is really participated communicated and by means of that reall participation life from him and in him conueied into our soules This wee beleeue and professe knowing that he is able to effect it who hath spoken it by that mighty working whereby hee is able to doo whatsoeuer he hath said We are not sollicitous for the manner how he worketh it not daring to pry into the secret Counsels of the most High We haue learned that Reuealed things are for vs secret things are for God Therfore we wonder why the world should be so much ammused at and distracted with those vnexplicable Labyrinths of Con-substantiation and Trans-substantiation which onely serue to set the world in diuision nothing to piety nor yet information As we therefore condemn that presumptuous definition of Trans-substantiation in the Laterane Councell so wee doo not like nor yeeld assent vnto that jejune and macilent conceit of Zwinglius and Oecolampadius whereby men account of this Sacrament but onely as of a bare shadow emptie void and destitute of Christ but ingenuously profess that by this Sacrament Christ giueth vs his very body and bloud and really and truely performs in vs his promise in feeding our soules vnto eternall life As for the manner how 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This inexplicable that vnutterable it is faith onely that can giue the resolution Trans or con we skill not of Iohn 6. 51. The bread that I will giue is my flesh which I will giue for the life of the world Therefore his flesh is bread the Bread of life Most true but not therefore his flesh by Trans-substantiation You finde not that in the Gospell or any where else Life begun in Baptisme by the Lauer of Regeneration is confirmed and sustained in the holy supper by his body and blood How I cannot explicate How
yeeres after Christ though he died about 544. This man wrot nothing that I can heare of eyther in Sidonius who liued at that time or Hinckmarus or Flodoard or Sixtus Senensis or Bellarmine or Chesneu or any other Hee that wrote the notes vpon Saint Paul's Epistles taught indeed at Rhemes as appeareth by Flodoard and thence grew the error I suppose of those who took him for Saint Remigius Bishop of Rhemes but hee is called Remigius Antisiadorensis because hee was borne at Auxerre Of him we read in Sixtus Senensis that hee wrote on Saint Paul's Epistles He is of a much later date liuing vnder Charles the bald about 880. Howsoeuer we are not touched by him or any of the rest for wee neither beleeue nor say that the Bread of the Supper is but a bare figure of the body of Christ not his Body we professe wee receiue the Lords Body and drink his bloud in commemoration of his Death and Passion as hee hath appointed If you say otherwise we haue done with you XXXVI That wee ought to receiue in both kindes and that one alone sufficeth not WEE ought so indeed nor is it sufficient to administer the Communion as the Romanists now doe vnder one kinde This is the authorized and receiued and iustifiable Doctrine and Orthodox practice of the Church of England Artic. 30. thus we reade The Cup of the Lord is not to bee denied vnto the Lay-people For both the parts of the Lords Sacrament by Christs ordinance and commandement ought to be ministred to all Christian men alike And in the Communion book it is expresly said That the chiefe minister if there bee moe present as it often hapneth in Colledges especially and Cathedrall Churches shall receiue it first himself and then deliuer it to other Ministers and so to the People in both kindes This is our practice and our profession for which I ioyne issue with all Papists liuing that it is the prime originall institution of our Sauiour which giueth Birth and Beeing to a Sacrament that it is Sacriledge to alter it therefrom that it neuer was otherwise vsed in the Church of God for aboue 1000 yeeres after Christ Let all the Papists liuing prooue the contrary and I will subscribe to all Popery As for this poore fellow hee can say no more then hee findeth ready to hand or is put into his mouth his Camerades were conscious to themselues of nouelty and innouation for in a point so notorious so scandalous of such consequence wee are not sent as accustomed to see any Fathers It is manifest saith Cessander a man professing himselfe a Romane Catholique though of wonderfull modesty moderation and learning that in administration of the sacred Sacrament of the Eucharist the Vniuersall Church of Christ vntill this day and the Westerne or Romane Church for more then 1000 yeeres after Christ especially in their solemne and ordinary dispensation of this Sacrament did exhibit and giue vnto all faithfull Christians not one only but both the kinds of Bread and Wine as is most cleere and euident out of innumerable testimonies of the old Writers both Greeke and Latine which I can make good and of some will giue a taste Ignatius in his Epistle to the Philadelphians 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 One Bread is broken vnto all and one Wine giuen to the whole multitude This man was Saint Iohn's Disciple Martialis as you say one of the 70 Disciples Epist 1. Sect. 3. Nunc autem multò magis sacerdotes Dei honoratis qui vitam vobis tribuunt in calice et viuo pane and he speaketh you see to the people Dionysius Areopag S. Paul's Disciple pag. 157. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. for hauing discouered the couered vndiuided bread and diuided it into many parts and distributed to all the Vnity of the Cup hee consummateth in those Symbols and signes the Vnity of the Church and so in many other places S. Clement Saint Peter's Disciple and Successor in his Masse hauing set downe the order and forme of consecration cometh to participation thus Let the Deacon giue the cup and when all haue receiued men and women let the Deacons carry the remainder into the Reuestry So Saint Mark in his Liturgie another Disciple of Saint Peter So Saint Peter himself in his Liturgie or Masse as you call it So the rest Iustin Martyr in the end of his Apologie describing the seruice of those antient Christians saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 They whom we call Deacons giue to euery one present part of the consecrated Bread and Wine Irenaeus in lib. 4. cap. 33. prooueth the Resurrection because we participate of the body and bloud of Christ And lib. 5. cap. 11. speaking of a Christian man he saith that de calice qui sanguis eius est nutritur de pane qui est corpus eius augetur That railing Feuardentius in his Notes vpon Irenaeus was not able to produce one Testimony for half Communions though he vaunt it was a practice in the Apostles time Tertul. in de Resurrect speaking of all Christians in generall Caro corpore sanguine Christi vescitur vt anima saginetur And because these Patrons of a desperate cause contrary to all art and reason conclude negatiuely The cup was not communicated because the bread is alone sometime remembred we may inferre alike The bread was not giuen but the cup because Tertul. in depudicitia remembreth onely the cup thus Aqua aliis initians cui ille si fortè patrocinabitur pastor quem in calice depingis prostitutorem ipsum Christiani Sacramenti mento et ebrietatis idolū moechiae asylum post calicem subsecuturae de quo nihil libentius bibas quà m ouem poenitentiae secundae The man was then I yeeld a Montanist but that hinders not his credit from relation of truth and vniuersall practice on foot though he oppugn it Clemens Alexandrinus Stro. 1. p◠117. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For which cause some men when as they distribute the holy Eucharist as the custome is permit euery man of the common people to take a portion And what he meaneth by Eucharist himself explaineth 2. Paedag. 2. cap. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. The mixture of both in one that is of Wine and the Word is that which wee call the Eucharist whereof the Faithfull when they participate are sanctified in soule and body both Dionysius Bishop of Alexandria in Euseb Hist lib. 7. cap. 8 writing vnto Xystus Bishop of Rome relateth of an antient Christian no Priest but a Lay-man that vpon occasion supposed he had not been well baptized Of him he writeth there that long before and often hee had been partaker of the body and bloud of Christ not of his body alone but of his bloud also in expresse words Saint Cyprian in moe places than one Epist 63. Tamen quoniam quidam vel ignoranter vel simpliciter in Calice Dominico sanctificando plebi ministrando non hoc
of the Sonne of man and drink his bloud you haue no life in you Lo without drinking no life euerlasting then poore deceiued Papists what will become of you you shall perish in your sinnes though your bloud shall bee required at the hands of your ignorant or rather deceitufll guides that thus mis-leade you from Christs Institution Luk. 24. 30 35. Christ at Emmaus communicated his disciples vnder one kinde Two things are insisted on out of these words as it appeareth by the laying downe First that this was actio sacra a Communion of the Body of our Sauiour then that it was done vnder one kinde this is taken as granted because there is no mention of drinking of Wine there is made mention of breaking the Bread Ignorants and wilfull take things amisse an ordinary Hebrew phrase it is in the Scriptures to eat bread to break bread for to eat and drink to take a refection or repast This man imagineth that all their meales were sicca conuiuia altogether without any liquor nor Wine nor Water vsed though in hot countries Such a foole would haue no other answer made vnto him but as Arisotle would haue made to him that should deny motion or that hee should neuer drink at his meales the best answer could possibly be made vnto him That it was actio sacra and not communis our Sauiour did celebrate the Communion of his Body and Bloud though I know it is controuerted for my part I will not contend at present I know it is held so by Augustine Theophylact and I adde too Beda and Hierome with others but take heede of the Precedent for if hee communicated onely Bread then I know not what vse of Wine at all there will bee in the blessed Sacrament For these were peraduenture of his Apostles but without all question of his Disciples and so had interest in the Cup if any had at all See more wee cannot Acts 2. 42. then we haue seene already mention made of breaking of Bread which is not exclusiue from drinking of Wine no more then 1. Cor. 11. 13. drinking doth exclude eating at all Poore shifts for Sacriledge and impiety of late made an Article of faith in the Church of Rome He that instituted the one ordained the other ioyntly both and at the same time with all circumstances alike if any aduantage is it is for Drink not for Eat For Drink you all of this saith the Author of the Sacrament hee saith not expresly Eat you all of this as foreseeing that impiety which in time humane presumption should bring-in vpon and against his owne institution fulfilled in the Church of Rome at this day XXXVII That Sacramental vnction is not to bee vsed to the sick VSe it if you will wee hinder you not nor much care or enquire what effects ensue vpon it but obtrude it not on vs or vnto the Church as in Censu of the Sacraments of the time of Grace as Baptisme is held and the Lords Supper Visible signes of inuisible Grace Powerfull instruments ordained by God to work in our Soules eternall Life by conueighing the meanes thereof vnto them Sacramental vnction call it if you please so farre as in the writings of the antient Fathers all Articles peculiar vnto our Christian faith and beliefe are sometime called Sacraments all duties of religious piety vnto God all diuine and Ecclesiasticall ceremonies are named Sacraments in which sense you might reckon not seuen but seuenscore if you were disposed to make a search for Sacraments In the Apostolicall and Primitiue Church it was a custome to anoint the sick with oyle to pray ouer them and so commit them vnto God This Saint Iames remembreth 5. 4. Is any sick among you Let him call for the Elders of the Church and let them pray ouer him anointing him with oyle in the name of the Lord. The Apostle doth not call it a Sacrament Sacramentall vnction as the Thesis proposeth and which is that should bee expresly prooued Our Bibles say the sick were anointed but not our Bibles nor theirs doe say that this anointing was a Sacrament And Fathers wee are not sent to see that proue it so the place is not to purpose as it is proposed Mar. 6. 13. is a Text defacto They anointed with oyle many that were sick and healed them but de iure there is not a word in that Text whether yea or no this Anointing should bee a Sacrament The Master of controuersies confesseth himselfe that it is not accorded whether in this Text or not Sacramentall vnction was instituted and himselfe is of opinion that it is not grounding on the resolution of the Councell of Trent to which all Papists are tyed to subscribe and yeeld and how dare you bring this as a proofe Now say the truth Sir Goose and shame the diuell How plain are these Texts that set your great Directors together by the ears Where were your sick wits that did not aduise you Take heed of falling foule with the Councel of Trent the cynosura of your faith Sure they were made of the pappe of an apple so easily they squeeze themselues out to nothing your great Dictators haue found hitherto but one direct Text Iames 5. 4. can we think your sharp sight should spy out three more a Fox or a Fearne-bush somewhat or nothing for Mat. 16. 18. Acts 28. 8. nor oyle nor vnction is remembred bare imposition of hands vpon the sick and diseased so that wee stand in some possibility heerafter to haue added an eightth Sacrament to the former seauen XXXVIII That no interior grace is giuen by the imposition of hands in the Sacrament of holy orders THis indeed is contrary vnto the expresse words of our Bible and therefore directly contrary to our Opinion Doctrine and Practice Can this fellowe bee so ignorant as not to know or rather so impudent as to deny that in giuing of holy orders we vse those memorable formall words of our Sauiour Receiue the holy Ghost Was euer man made Minister in the Church of England but in that sort with that forme Can hee deny that wee not onely practise it but propugne it command it to bevsed enquire of and punish the neglect opposition and contempt thereof What shall wee say to such a base detracting Varlet as shameth not in view of heauen and earth to deny the Sun shineth at noone-day Romane Catholiques I admire your patience that suffer such Hog-rubbers to leade you by the nose and make you beleeue the snowe is black Poore deceiued Soules trust no such Merchants that would sell you to the diuell for a morsell of bread and make you stand out vpon tearms of Separation for their owne aduantages against the Church as Schismaticks in which you liue and haue beene baptized XXXIX That Priests and other religious Persons or any others who haue vowed their chastity vnto God may freely marry notwithstanding their vowes TOuching marriage of Ministers this is our Doctrine resolued
Sabaoth Which very words wee vse in our solemnizing of the holy Communion thus Therefore with Angels and Archangels and the company of Heauen wee laud and magnifie thy glorious name euermore praysing thee and saying Holy holy holy Lord God of hosts Heauen and earth are full of thy glory Glory bee to thee O Lord most high Can this Goose gaggle against this Augustine is next lib. 1. de Serm. Dom. in Monte cap. 5. in whom I finde no such diuision nor any thing to purpose And lib. de doct Christ cap. 7. againe As if there were but one booke there being foure and no such matter in any 7. Chapter Who can brooke such an ignorant or negligent companion in a point of controuersie and imputation Which is also obserued by him in Saint Gregory Saint Gregory is to be seene lib. 1. Moral cap. 28. in which booke there are not so many Chapters nor in the Chapters which are any such thing The truth is that which was meant is lib. 29. Moral vpon the 38. of Iob the same in effect with Saint Ambrose before Esais quoque cùm Laudem Trinitatis aperiret Seraphini voces exprimens ait Sanctus sanctus sanctus ac ne tertiò SanctuÌ„ nominaÌ„s vni â—ateÌ„ diuinae substantiae scindere videretur adtuÌ„xit Dominus Deus Sabaoth which almost word for word is repeated Homil. 16. and not 19. as we find it cited vpon Ezechiel To which hee might haue added Psal 67. Benedicat nobis Deus Deus noster Benedicat nobis Deus and that in Rom. XI For of him and by him and in him are al things to him be praise for euer Amen These are his Fathers that should affirme the same videlicet that it is nor superfluous nor superstitious to repeat one the same prayer oftentimes They repeat nothing they affirm nothing they only speak what was done That which they speake wee doe That which they are supposed to affirme against vs if they did affirme any thing needed not For we affirme vse propose and maintaine the same priuately publiquely in our Liturgie and Seruice of the Church To conclude Sir Gagger bring mee any one Place of Scripture any practice resolued of the Catholicks any decision of the Church representatiue any determination of the Church collectiue in a particular approued Synod any Saying of any one Father of Credit dogmatically resolued for 500. yeeres and better after Christ to the end of the Councell of Chalcedon against any thing established in the Church of England that is in the Communion-booke the booke of Articles the booke of Consecrating Bishops and ordering of Priests and Deacons and I will subscribe Heer is scope enough to ramble in Gagge me if you can As for priuate opinions I am bound to none no not vnto my owne Quisque abundet in sensu suo so be it hee trouble not the Church therewith FINIS Curteous Reader before I presse thee to peruse this treatise haue I pray thee so much patience as to permit me to giue thee my aduice concerning some certaine poâ—nts very necessary for thâ—e the â—ettâ—â— to sâ—me thy selfe thâ—â—of with fruit and pâ—ofit The first point is that in the inscription thereof it doth not tell thee out of which English Bible the alleadged pâ—stages are extracted For as much as this were mecrely in vaine sith that England hath brought forth within these few years past to the number of 20. seueralâ—â—orts of Bibles farre different one from another so that the Protestants haue not all one sort of Bible Notwithstanding know this for certainty that they are faithfully taken forth of the Bâ—â—le in quarto Printed at London by Robert Barker Anno 1615. If any one shall shew vnto thee some other Bible wherein they are not so written word for word as here they are yet rest assured and out of doubt that thou shalt finde theÌ„ written as they are here alleadged at the least in this of Robert Barkers The second point is that thou admire the splendour of Truth and accordingly to stand as stoutly and as immooueably in the maintenance and defence thereof Yet neuerthelesse their condemnation is so expresly set downe in their owne Bibles and is so cleare to all the world that nothing more needs hereto but onely that thou know to reade and haue thy eyes in thy head at the opening of this their booke * This in my mind cannot choose but be an exceeding comfort vnto a Catholike Yea rather a great signe of security and assurance concerning the truth and vprightnesse of his cause in shewing himselfe content to be tried by their owne Bibles The translations whereof doth in a number of places and particularly in those that are now in controuersie swarue and differ notoriously from the Authenticall Latin and that to the incredible disparagement darkning and obscuring of the Catholike verity Neuer did nor neuer dare our aduersaries offer themselues to giue the like aduantage to vs as to be tryed by our own translations The third is that when thou shalt vrge or alleadge any passage in fauour of thine owne faith if any one returne the change be it either in recriminationâ— and blaming of the Roman Church or be it in alleadging some obscure text and ill vnderstood to counterpoint thine Shew c. The fourthis that they reiect some one of the passages which thou producest pretending it to be Apocrypha though it be not true That to preuent this obiection no such scriptures as they call Apocryphall are there produced but still there goe accompanied with them others also that are Canonical But if they shall contend with thee not about the words themselues as being both cleere and Canonicall but about the sense or meaning of theÌ„ know this that for such places as may bee subiect to such cauill thou hast here the warrant and authority of the holy fathers which haue vnderstood these places in the selfe-same sense that Catholickes doe A thing which they can neuer do in their defence And what reason were it then to preferre the priuate interpretation of a Cobler before S. Chrysostome of a Baker before S. Basil of a Tinker before Tertullian and so of others I here protest in the presence of God whom I call vpon in this behalfe Which yet should be to alter the text and to imploy mans wisdome in stead of the word A thing by their owne confession forbidden them they protesting c. Farewell my deare Reader seeing I haue now said all that vnto thee which I desired Gag Contrary to the expresse words of their owne Bible Against Acts 8. 30. c. Against Luk. 24. 15. How then are Scriptures so easie to be vnderstood of the vnlearned when the Disciples themselues vnderstood them not till first they were expounded vnto them See more 2 Pet. 1. 20. Gag See Fathers which affirme the same Iren. lib. 2. cap. 47. Origen lib. 7. cont Celsum Ambr. Ep. 44 ad Constant calleth it a Sea a depth of Propheticall