generally stande in England and come after vnto those former articles which conteine your association wherein ye conioyne your selues and enter into couenant with God as ye say to set vp all the ordinances of Christ for I take this to bee the fittest order Your syxt article which now must be first being expressed in these words And now that our forsaking and vtter abandoning these disordered assemblies as they generally stand in England may not seeme strange or offensiue to anye man that will iudge or be iudged by the word of God we alledge and affirme them heinouslie faultie and wilfullie obstinate in these foure principall transgressions To this I answered That Elias did sée outward idolatrie practised and saw none which did mislike and therefore complained of all It was an error but whereas Gods word is imbraced and multitudes abhorre Idolatrie and labour with sorrowfull teares to bee purged from their sinnes it is an intollerable pride and presumption of men to set themselues in Gods iudgement seat and to condemne all of wilfull obstinacie Let it be shewed where euer any led by Gods spirit haue dealt in this sort and especially in charging them most falslie as shall appeare The Brownists HEre you verye vehemently charge vs with vntollerable pride presumption and intrusion into Gods iudgment seate to be voide of Gods spirite to charge and condemne you most falsely as you say shall appeare How iustly you charge vs with these crimes or discharge your selfe and your assemblies of these present transgessions vpon the scanne of your answeres shall appeare c. G. G. All such as take vpon them to iudge and condemne whole assemblies that professe the Gospell and that with slanderous accusations as you do may right well be charged with intollerable pride presumption and intrusion into Gods iudgement seate séeing the Scriptures do cleerely warrant it For he that iudgeth one man to be no true Christian which holdeth the place of a brother and laboureth to please God professing the faith soundly in all fundamentall points either for some errors in iudgement or frailties committed in life proudlye aduanceth himselfe into Gods office who alone searcheth the heart and trieth the raines of the children of men What shall we say then of those which condemne whole multitudes amongst whom there be many vnspotted with grose errors and offenses But the ground of your dooing is from hence that such as commit principall transgressions and be wilfullye obstinate in the same the word of God dooth condemne them And then yée say that the assemblies in England be heinously faulty and wilfully obstinate in foure principall transgressions Ye boldly alledge and affirme but ye make proofe neither of the transgressions nor of the wilfull obstinacie Touching the transgressions what meane ye by principall If yée vnderstand great faults and grosse errors and holde withall that there is no faith nor regeneration among those which erre grosely commit great faults ye maintaine heresie which is conuinced by infinit places and examples of the Scriptures The best that euer were did know but in part 1. Cor. 13. The godliest were regenerate but in part Rom. 7. Of the strongest it was said who can tell his errors Psal 19. and in manye things we sinne all Iam. 3. If Noah Abraham Lot Dauid Solomon Samson and other holy men greatly replenished with the holy Ghost and with faithe did sometime fall into great sinnes howe many will be the errors the diuisions the frailties and offenses among the multitude in the church where with the stronger and such as haue the greater knowledge and godlinesse there are heaped vp together multitudes of weake and such as be carnall and but babes in Christ besides hipocrites and countersait brethren If by principall transgressions ye meane onely such as be fundamentall then ye doo most falsely accuse the Church of England which holdeth not any heresie or blasphemie against any one ground or principle of the holy Christian faith Yée must then either mainteine this heresie which is that where the true faith is there can breake foorth no great faults errors and abuses or this absurd manner of spéech which afterward yée vse that all errors and deformities in religion be heresies blasphemies and abhominations or els confesse that with intollerable pride presumption and intrusion into Gods iudgement seate yée haue taken vpon yée to iudge and condemne whole assemblies which professe the faith of Christ sincerely in all fundamentall points among whom there be many particular persons which study earnestly to please God mourning for their owne sinnes and are like iust Lot 2. Pet. ◠vexed and tormented to behold the wickednesse of others And now touching wilfull obstinacie how will yée prooue that to be in all the assemblies and in all members of the assemblies of England If ye say there be apparant transgressions in which they continue and therefore they be wilfully obstinate and so to be vtterly abandoned I answer that your conclusion doth not follow because the continuance in all sorts of errors and offenses in such as professe the faith doth not warrant men vtterly to cast them out as Heathen but where after admonition and conuiction the censure of the Church is despised The rule of discipline giuen by our Sauiour Christ maketh this verye cléere If thy brother sinne against thée tell him of it betwéene him and thée alone If he heare thée thou hast wunne thy brother if he heare thée not take one or two with thee that by the mouth of two or thrée witnesses euery word may be confirmed If he heare not them tell it to the Church if he heare not the Church let him be as an Heathen or as a Publican Math. 18. We sée that priuate members may not vtterly abandon and cast foorth any one brother that is one which professeth the true faith and for his profession hath the place and dignitie of a Christian nor iudge him so wilfully obstinate that he must be accounted as an Heathen vntill the Church haue so iudged and cast him foorth The same orderly course and rule of discipline is to be obserued in admonishing accusing conuincing condemning and vtter abandoning any particuler assembly which hath the dignity of a Christian church and doth offend so gréeuously and shew such obstinacie that it deserueth so heauy a censure In a particular Church there be errors and sinnes I will not saye in many but in all in as much as euery one hath his blindnesse and corruption erreth and sinneth continuallye one waye or other From hence it commeth that of necessitie there be alwaies in the Church diuersities of opinions discord diuision and dissention with many corruptions and abuses For if it be most manifest that the learnedest and godliest that liueth doth carrie with him his errors defects and corruptions what shal we looke for where the multitude is of learned vnlearned strong and weake altogether how innumerable will the frailties and corruptions now among all be
wherevpon it followeth that the vniuersall Church cannot rightly cut off and vtterly abandon anye particular assemblies vnlesse it be for errors abuses which ouerthrow the faith destroy true Christianity The precept of S. Paul in that whervnto we are come let vs procéed by one rule to be like minded Phi. 3. is héer to take place I will now procéed more particularly The church of England euen as it generally standeth in the publike assemblies among al godly Churches which know the faith which she dooth openly professe and maintaine hath the place dignity of a sister They all giue vnto her the right hand of fellowship acknowledging her for a mother in Israel in as much as she hath not béene barren but hath brought foorth many deare children to God and not a few of them crowned with martyrdome Behold then the inordinate dealing and arrogant presumption of you Brownists Yea behold euen the top of your pride against God and man which professing to set vp discipline and glorying that you suffer for it do breake and vtterly abolish the rules thereof giuen by Christ by your vtter forsaking and abandoning all the assemblies in England for let it bee confessed that the errors the sinnes the imperfections the spots and deformities of our Church be many so that she is not in her generall estate so faire as the fairest of her sisters yet hath she héeretofore had and now hath many noble children richlye adorned with heauenly iewels and pretious gifts of learning knowledge faith and godlinesse And howsoeuer the Papists one way and the Brownists another way do aggrauate her crimes with pestilent slaunders yet shall they neuer prooue that either in doctrine or manners she is guilty of any fundamentall crime which separateth from Christ and destroyeth the life and being of a true Church yet you Brownists not obseruing the rule giuen by Christ doo vtterly abandon and cast foorth from their dignitie all our assemblies in England For ye haue condemned al of wilful obstinacy euē to particular members who hath giuen you this authoritie to thrust them out of Gods familie which the whole vniuersall Church cannot rightly doo Who could euer imagine that vnder the pretence of setting vp discipline the diuell should breath such pride into rotten flesh as vtterly to ouerthrow the whole substance of it for whereas all the Churches of Christ in these parts of the world doo know the estate of our Church and be able to discerne the gréeuousnesse of our errors yet doo they all acknowledge and reuerence our assemblies as holye sisters And you Brownists men voide of knowledge and discretion without authoritie without any calling or warrant euen vpon a frantike brauerie and without obseruing any rule giuen by Christ Iesus take vpon ye most presumptuously contrary to the iudgement of the Churches to cast foorth and vtterly to abandon the same What Pope hath dealt more proudly in violating the discipline If there were but this one thing against you it were sufficient to declare your cursed dealing but your furies are many first in your slaunderous accusations which now we come vnto The first principall crime obiected by the Brownists Transgres 1 The Brownists THey worship the true God after a false manner their worship being made of the inuention of man euen of the man of sinne erronious imposed vpon them To this I did answer that our worship is the imbracing of the holy Bible by the doctrine thereof we séeke to beléeue in God to call vpon him and to doo all good workes c. The Brow The first transgression we charge your assemblies with is that you worship God after a false manner your worship being made of the inuention of man euen of the man of sinne erronious and imposed vpon you You answer your worship is the imbracing of the holy Bible Thus begging the question you neither prooue your worship by the Bible nor answer one of the foure apparant reasons which we bring in our article where it is false and contrary to the Bible c. G. G. To the intent that mine answer and your accusation may stand the cléerer to be séene into and the better to be iudged of I draw your words into a syllogisme thus Whatsoeuer assemblies worship the true God after a false manner their worship being made of the inuention of man euen of the man of sinne c. the same are not the true Churches of God But the assemblies as they generally stand in England doo worship the true God after a false manner their worship being made of the inuention of man c. Therefore the assemblies in England be not the true churches of God I did not nor doo not deny the first part of this argument the proposition so that we vnderstand by false maner of worship and the same made of the inuention of man such a false manner as dooth ouerthrow the very ground and foundation of faith and make an vtter seperation from the Lord Iesus Christ Such as the worship is in popery where they teach and doo many things contrary to the principles of faith placing holinesse and the worship of God in their owne inuentions and séeking remission of sinnes and the merite of eternall life in euery beggerly supersticious obseruation and ceremony But if by false manner of worship yée vnderstand euery error fault corruption in matters of religion which though they be euill and to be condemned yet ouerthrow not the faith nor the very essence of Gods true worship but be in circumstances or in parts that may be maimed and yet the life remaine then I deny the proposition as most erronious false and hereticall For king Dauid with the princes the Préests the Leuites and people erred and that grosly contrary to the expresse law of God Numb 7. vers 9. when they carried the Arke vpon a Cart yet were they euen then the true Church of God It was a great offence that in the dayes of some good Kings of Iuda the people sacrificed in the high places but only to the Lord 2. Kings 11. 14. 15. They should by Gods appointment haue doone it at Ierusalem onely yet were they neuerthelesse Gods people The Passouer was a principall part of Gods worship but they kept it not so precisely according to the law of a long time as they did in the 18. yeare of Iosias 2. King 23. 2. Chron. 35. The Preachers at Corinth did very euill in building Timber Straw and Hay vpon the foundation and so did the people which sorted themselues as it were by seuerall companies to follow them But yet because they held Christ the foundation in the true doctrine S. Paul saith their workes should burne they should suffer losse neuerthelesse they themselues should be saued as it were by fier 1. Cor. 3. Now to come vnto the second part of your argument the assumption which is that the Church of England dooth worship the true God after a
the Pastour doth keepe backe some for ignorance c. Heere you confesse that very many Churches in England want godly Pastours and that there all are admitted and that he that admitteth them is the worste of the company Thus you make the most Chuches in England in a very bad estate and so farre foorth you affirme your article But yet you know some Churches c. I did confesse and doo still with gréefe that in very manye assemblies in England all are admitted to the Table of the Lord which offer themselues euen the most prophane and grosse sinners I shewed also the reason of this gréeuous offence namely that the ministers which should repell such open offenders are many times the worst or at least negligent in that behalfe And moreouer that the Church of England dooth neither approoue such admission of prophane men to the Sacrament nor yet suffer it in practise wholy For touching practise there be many congregations in the land where sundrie for ignorance and open wickednesse are by the ministers kept backe and not suffered to communicate vntill they shew repentance And for not approouing such admission I said the booke of Common prayer dooth prescribe and commaund the repelling of notorious wicked offendours and also that some are excommunicated iustly not admitted to publike praier This was the first part of mine answer wherein I prooue your accusation false The other is that the godly are not polluted by the companye of the wicked which are suffered to communicate with them in Gods worship and the thing not in their power to redresse And for example I alledged the Church of the Iewes By which I prooue that if your accusation were true yet it destroyeth not the Church Now let vs examine how you ouerthrowe this by your replye Yée aske whether there were no more prophane in the parish besides those twenty or thirty which are repelled And whether those other prophane were not admitted I answer If there were yet the repelling of twenty or thirty in a flock dooth shew that you accuse falsely when yée say all the prophane without exception of any one person are reteined in the body and bosome of our Church But to prooue your article at once as yée say by a more direct course yée bring an argument And yée demand if I know anye in all the realme of England vnbaptized Is not Baptisme say you a Sacrament belonging to the Church by which all the faithfull and their séed doo enter into it Wherevpon yée argue thus All being baptized it followeth that all are receiued into the body of your Church Now being once receiued in they can no way be cast out but by excommunication And it is manifest that the Parson and all his parish hath not the powre which Christ hath left vnto his Church to excommunicate any offender be he neuer so obstinate or notorious c. This being the onely reason by which ye stand to prooue the truth of your accusation I must bestow the more paines about it Thus it must be set in forme Where all are receiued in by Baptisme and no power to cast foorth any by excommunication there all the prophane multitudes are without exception of any one person receiued into reteined in the bosome and body of the Church But in the Church of England all are receiued in by Baptisme and there is no power to cast foorth any by excommunication Therefore in England all the prophane multitudes without exception of any one person are receiued into and reteined in the bosome and body of the Church In your proposition there are to be excepted such as are repelled from the Sacrament who are in some sort for the time remooued out of the bosome of the Church And also such Papists Heretikes and Scismatikes as depart out of themselues It is further also to be considered in it that all the baptized continuing outwardly obedient they cannot be iustly called the prophane multitudes Your presumption in which ye charge the Church of England with a principall transgression for receiuing in all by Baptisme and hauing no power to cast foorth any by Excommunication is with foule error and falsehood Touching the Baptisme of Infants this appeareth to be your iudgement that the children of prophane men which remayne in the Church and professe the faith of Christ belong not to the couenant and therefore ought not to be Baptised No doubt the Church doth offend when open notorious sinners are not Excommunicate and brought to repentance or at the least to such a shewe of repentance as that men can not further iudge them but as Brethren It is also an offence where such not being cast foorth their children are receyued vnto Baptisme and that without care to sée them brought vp and instructed in the Christian Religion and to leade a Godly life agréeable to the same But to say that the children of prophane men taking prophane men as you doo which professe Christianitie and remayne in the Church are not to be Baptised is a very wicked iniurie to Gods people and contrarie to the manifest doctrine of the holie Scriptures and can not without Heresie be mayntayned First touching prophane people it is certayne that all Heathen Heretikes all Scismatikes open contemners of the holie Religion and all obstinate wicked men whiche despise the censure of the Church that hath passed vppon them may be called prophane But you Brownists go further and condemne them all as Infidels and prophane which professe the faith of Christ because notwithstanding they doo it in some weakenes and infirmities which is a wicked presumption and intrusion into Gods seate and in which as I haue shewed before yée breake the rule of discipline giuen by our Sauiour Christ by which no brother that is none which professeth the true faith is for his sinnes and impenitencie to be iudged as heathen vntill he haue despised the admonition of the Church and so be cast foorth You take vppon yée to plucke vp all the Darnell yée are commaunded the contrarie least yée plucke vp the Wheate Math. 13. You dare and that in most sauage and desperate manner rend and teare vp the weake plants yée doo it vnto whole assemblyes in which there be many that vnfaynedly sorrow and mourne for their sinnes and studie to please God all that feare the Lord may tremble at this your intollerable wickednes But now to procéede Ye will not allowe the children of prophane men the Sacrament of Baptisme And what is your reason they bée not the séede of the faithfull In déede in this yée say true that none are in theyr infancie to be admitted to this Sacrament but the séede of the faithfull but when yée take it that the children whose next parents are hypocrites or wicked and prophane persons which yet remayne in the Church and professe Christ be not the séede of the faithfull at all and in any respect and so within the couenant and to be baptized
and Teachers doo examine and make triall and choose him whome they shall finde euery way qualified for so worthy a function The matter being made knowne to as many as may be and especially to that flocke ouer which he is to be set that if any can alleadge iust cause why he is vnworthy of such an office they be heard otherwise after a due kind he is ordeyned and put into possession of his Ministerie Then touching your assumption the Ministers of the Church of England as ye say be imposed If ye vnderstand by imposed that they be all thrust vppon the flockes against theyr will and liking or that the flockes haue no power to take exception yee speake vntruly For there be many flockes in England which haue those Pastors and Ministers of the Gospell whome they haue desired to haue and made choyse of I meane by suite both to the Patrones and to the parties whome they desire to haue and if any of the people can shew iust cause against the partie which is to be ordeined the Byshop may not admit him There follow now many boasting words with which yee march in tryumph it is pitie to put them out of their array You require one reason at the least to confirme our Ministerie I confesse it is a reasonable request but first I must answere that which ye bring for to ouerthrowe it To proue our Ministerie not to be of Christ but to haue his negatiue Yée say yée finde not in his Testament the names we carry the offices we beare the manner of our entrance and administration our support and maintenance Touching our names we are called Ministers of the Gospell Pastors and Teachers which be the Tytles giuen in Gods word The names of Parsons and Vicars are not to make any distinction of the Ministerie but of the state of maintenance annexed vnto the same The Offices we beare are to teach and instruct our flockes by the wholesome word of God to administer the Sacraments and to make publike prayers And I am sure these are prescribed in Christes Testament and if your eye were not malignant yee might espy them there Our entrance is not by intrusion but by calling and that in many by the desire of the flockes as I haue shewed before and for the manner of our administration it hath béen dealt in at large in the first accusation Our support by Tythes and such like is not mayntayned as a matter of necessitie but as the most conuenient The word of God hath giuen the generall rule that the Minister of the word is to be liberally mayntayned the manner touching circumstances is to be ordered for most conueniencie by the Church and power of the Christian Magistrate For many things are lawfull and in the power of the Church to ordeyne which are not particularly named in Gods word but conteyned in generall rules Your next words are farre sharper and cut more déepely yea euen so déepely that wo bée vnto vs all if you haue not the venemous toong of liers and false accusers Yée vse a gradation to set foorth our pedigrée for we are yée say the children of the Byshops The Byshops are the creatures of the Pope The Pope is the eldest sonne of Satan and his vicar generall in earth Now as yée haue set vs héere vnder a verie honorable parentage so doo yée shewe vs great kindnesse in setting vs foorth not to be degenerate but to beare the image the marke the power and life of the Pope and together with him to growe liue raigne stand and fall as the branches with the trée Héere is the verie bottome of your gall héere is your poysoned sting thrust as déepe as is possible But let your words be examined and by the stepps that you ascend I will descend The highest is the Deuill the father of lyes Next vnto him the Pope his eldest sonne and vicar generall in earth In déede I am resolutely perswaded that the Pope is the Beast vnto whome the Dragon gaue his power his Throne and great authoritie Reuel 13. of whome it is sayd in the same place that all the world wondred and followed the Beast They worshipped the Dragon which gaue power to the Beast and they woorshipped the Beast saying Who is like to the Beast who is able to warre with him This no doubt is that man of sinne who hath exalted himselfe aboue all that is called God or that hath imperiall maiestie sitting in the Temple of God and boasting himselfe as God whose comming should be by the effectuall working of Satan with all lying signes and wonders 2. Thess 2. He hath set vp the verie worship of Deuils with all abhominable Idolatrie and blasphemous heresies and lyes He hath not only vsurped and challenged a ciuill power and Lordship ouer Kings but also a spirituall Dominion ouer the consciences and faith of man to make Lawes at his pleasure contrarie to Gods word to binde the same this is the vicar generall of the Deuill Then to come to the next steppe where there is no question nor doubt neyther to be made but that all Popish Byshops be the creatures and children of the Pope in as much as they haue their calling and consecration and power deriued from him in as much as they sweare obedience vnto him to mayntayne his dignitie his tyrannie his doctrine and his lawes and in as much as they challenge together with him a Lordship and tyrannie ouer the conscience But the Byshops of the Church of England haue not their calling consecration or power frō the Pope but frō our Church which hath forsaken the Church of Rome as the Sinagog of Satan The Byshops of England acknowledge no subiection to the Pope but by an oath renounce his vsurped power tyranny The Bishops of Engl. are not ordeined to maintain or defend y e religion lawes of Antichrist but quite contrary they promise and professe to aduance the Gospell of Iesus Christ by the liuely word to cut downe all idolatrie heresies and popish abhominations Finally the Bishops of Engl. do not vsurp a Lordship ouer the faith consciences of men for the power which they haue peculiar in the Church is only in the administration of externall gouernment It is therfore with manifest wicked sclander that ye tearme the Bish of Engl. Antichristian the creatures of the Pope and such as haue his power life in thē yea such as whosoeuer is ordeined by thē hath his ministry frō Antichrist and from the Deuill There is controuersy about the state gouernmēt by Bishops whether y e Church of Engl. hath not erred in cōmitting into their hands the execution of discipline which is the matter to be handled in your fourth accusation but to gather from hence a pedegrée from the Pope is verie foolishe Let vs come then to the lowest step which is in the ministers We haue laboured in studie of holie things to be fitte for the Ministerie and so furnished
c. These doo concerne the third and fourth accusation and therefore the Aunswere is included in the Aunswere to them Yet I tooke exception against the first that the Church may be holden by force from executing Gods commaundement touching externall Gouernment and yet be the true Church of God And for example I alleadged the Church that was held captiue in Babylon You according to your vsuall manner extend this to a wilfull violating of Gods commaundement And further you deale in that which yée demaund as if all your accusations against the Churche of Englande were true touching Idolatrous worship You should aunswere directly whether they be not the Church of God which are by force being willing kept backe from executing Church Gouernment You take your selues to be the true Church and yet yée are restrayned from setting vp those Orders which yée professe ye would I would knowe whether this bée not some bondage If yée say yet this is not to be subiect to any false gouernment To prooue that the Church may of ignorance and frailtie bée in some bondage of a false gouernment and yet bée the true Church I indeuored to shewe that Ierusalem from aboue is not in this world so fullie possessed of her fréedome but that shée and euerie one of her children bée in some spirituall bondage For proofe I alleadged that Saint Paule sayeth He sawe in his members a lawe rebelling against the lawe of his minde and leading him captiue to the lawe of sinne Rom. 7. You cry out and say yée will thinke me a carnall Libertine if I recant not this doctrine What Atheist say you would thus haue defended his grosse sinne I doo not meruayle that yée are moued so sore at this doctrine for if it bée prooued that the true Church and euerie member of the same is tyed in some spirituall bondage in this world it breaketh the mayne piller of Brownisme which they erect out of this sentence Ierusalem from aboue is free with her children and so their whole frame commeth downe this maketh you so hastely to thrust vnder a rotten proppe euen as it came to hand Ye say that Saint Paule neuer continued captiue vnto sinne after regeneration neither gaue place vnto euill thoughts no more doo any of you S. Paul saith that the law in his members did lead him captiue to the lawe of sinne He saith I do the euil which I hate I my selfe in my minde serue the law of God and in my flesh the lawe of sinne Was not Dauid regenerate and yet gaue place to euill thoughts so farre as to commit adultrie and murther If the regeneration and fréedome of Brownists from all spirituall bondage be such that they giue not place vnto euill thoughts they shall neuer haue any great company vnlesse it be of ranke hypocrites of such indéed there may be stoare Ye looke that I should recant But I say either you or S. Paul must recant for that which you say is flat contrary and opposite to that which hee saith Looke well to it for I tell ye he is too constant to recant If it please God to bestow his grace you may Ye say what Atheist would thus haue defended his grosse sinne And I say what Heretike could more bouldly speake flat contrary to the blessed Apostle and to the manifest doctrine of the Scriptures deliuered euery where then you doe it may be ye stand chéefely vpon the words of our Sauiour which yée alledge that no man can serue two maisters If the regenerate be held captiue in any part vnto sinne they serue two maisters This needeth to be opened We are most sure that Saint Paul in that hée saith dooth not differ from our Sauiour Christ and yet in shewe hee séemeth to speake quite contrary For where the one saith No man can serue two Maisters The other saith I my selfe in my minde serue the lawe of God and in my flesh the lawe of sinne How shall this bee reconciled is there no waye but to fall vpon the rockes of Brownisme and to imagine that the regenerate are so fréed that they be in no captiuitie vnto sinne nor giue place vnto euill thoughtes Yes verelye The regenerate doo fall into sinne not onelye in thoughts but in déedes not onelye of ignorance but euen against theyr knowledge as Dauid Peter and manye other in the holye Scriptures And therefore they may be said to serue sinne in the flesh that is in the corruption yet remaining in them not extinguished by the law of the minde that is the grace and worke of regeneration Yet the doubt remaineth for all is but one man so farre as he is regenerate and so farre as he is corrupt and therefore when in the flesh he dooth serue the law of sinne the whole man may be said to serue the lawe of sinne S. Paul dooth deny that and saith I doo the euill that I hate I consent to the lawe of God that it is good I delight in the law of God concerning the inner man it is no longer I that sinne but the sinne that dwelleth in me We sée then the same man sinneth and in some respect is saide to be in captiuitie and to serue sinne and in an other respect he is accounted with God not to serue sinne séeing he is by tyrannous forcing drawne to doo that which he hateth How standeth the fréedome then of Ierusalem and her Children I say her perfect fréedome with all her children is in the remission of sinnes Touching that she hath in this world it may thus be compared As if a man lye bound in chaines so that he cannot stirre any member and after his chaines be loosed he can rise and walke but yet his chaines hang vpon him and are a burthen hee cannot cast them off For by nature we are so fast chained that we haue no moouing at all in vs being dead in sinne But through the worke of regeneration we are borne we are raised our bands and chaines are loosed and broken we can rise we can stand we can walke though faintlye our chaines euen a lumpe of corruption in the flesh pressing vs downe so sore Then I conclude that seeing the Church in this life is in some bondage to sinne and yet the true Church And séeing there may be the true visible Church vnder some yoake of outward bondage let the Church of England haue that fauour which other churches haue had and not bee so rigorouslye condemned Thus much touching the first accusation together with your arguments against read prayer The second transgression The Brow 2 THat the prophane multitudes without exception of any one person c. The second fault is that all the prophane multitudes without exception of any one person are admitted and retained in the bosome of the Church Manye Churches in England want godly Pastours and there all are admitted It may be he that admitteth is the worst in the company But there be many greater and smaller congregations where
ouercome Then yée turne your selues to those poore soules as yée terme thē whom we like miserable Physicians séeke to cure and your Counsell you giue them I doo allow it for it is the same in effect if you could sée that I gaue them before I would to God the people did follow it we should not then haue one Brownist The Deuill counterfaiting Christs voice in hereticall schismatikes should not be able to allure and call away the shéepe from their shéepeheards Now remaineth the last point onely that I shew some reason to prooue our Ministery to be of Christ The ministery of the Gospell which bringeth the worde of faith and reconciliation betwéene God and the worlde is the true ministerie of Christ for the Deuil and Antichrist ordeine no such ministerie Nowe the ministerie of the Church of England doth bring no word nor doctrine but the sacred scriptures It preacheth faith in God through Christ and the doctrine of repentance deliuering the holy sacraments as seales to confirme the same Let all the schismatikes in the world barke against it and say we haue no word nor Sacraments yet this is the holy word God so loued the world that hee gaue his onely begotten sonne that whosoeuer beleeueth in him should not perish but haue life euerlasting It may be sayde that many ministers in England doo not nor cannot preach the Gospell how then is their ministery the ministery of reconciliation Héere note that as we must distinguish betwéene the ministery and the man himselfe which is the minister for the man may be of the Deuill and yet his ministery of God so must we also distinguish betwéene the function it selfe and the execution of the same For when one is called to bee a minister of the Gospell which is able and dooth not preach the defect is not in the function but in his negligence about the execution Likewise when the office or function is layd vpō him that cannot preach the function it selfe is entyre the defect is in the execution thereof through his disabilitie I say therfore that the Ministerie of England is the Ministerie of the Gospell though some doo not and some cannot Preach Then further such as haue the calling and ordination of the Church haue the Ministerie of Christ for it is giuen to the Church to haue power to call and ordeine Ministers Now if the Church doo falt and breake either by error or negligence in some rules which are to be obserued about this calling and ordinatiō yet the power is not disanulled nor the function destroyed vnlesse we will hold that where there is transgression either of ignorance or otherwise the whole is ouerthrowne and so conclude that there is no praier nor worship of God nor any true seruice doone vnto him vnder heauen because all is with errors and faults In England the Ministers haue their calling and ordination by the Church of God For that people which hath forsaken heresies and false worship and imbraced the doctrine of the Gospell hath in it the true Church which hath the power And the Ministers intrude not themselues but haue the power giuen them by the hands of the Bishops who doo it not by their owne authoritie nor by any authoritie from Antichrist but as committed to their trust by publike authoritie Moreouer that is the Ministerie of God which is to bring men to the faith and to build vp the body of Christ The Ministerie of England is to none other end For the whole drift the whole scope and burthen laid vpon them is to féede with wholsome doctrine and to guide in the waye of godlinesse the shéepe of Christ walking before them in godlye conuersation The Brownist will not take himselfe héere conuinced but will say these causes are but pretended and are not in truth I will therefore now reason from the effect together with that which is properly adioyned to the Ministerie of Christ That Ministerie with the execution whereof there is ioyned the effectuall grace power blessing and operation of the Holy-ghost to the true conuersion of mens soules is not a Ministerie of the Deuill nor of Antichtist nor commeth not in the life and power of the beast but is indeed the true Ministerie of Christ I thinke the Brownists will not be so beastly as to affyrme that the grace and operation of the holy Ghost to the conuersion of mens soules is ioyned to that and worketh by that which is of the Deuill and commeth in the life and power of Antichrist Then it remayneth only to shewe that there hath béene and is this grace and worke in the execution of our function If the Brownists will deny that euer they felt that maiestie and power in the preaching which can not be in the words of man but only in that word which is sharper then any two edged sword and pierceth so déepe as to be a discerner of the thoughts and secret intents Or if they will denie that euer they haue béene driuen by it vnto hatred sorrowe and remorse for sinne and raysed vp with comfort and hope of forgiuenesse and with the promises of eternall glorie Yet vnto many other which by it are conuerted vnto the Lord in déede which vnto feare and trembling doo féele the power and swéetnesse of the liuely word it may be sayd as S. Paule speaketh to the Corinths for when his aduersaries did denie him to be an Apostle the Corinths by his Ministerie were begotten in Christ wherevpon he sayth If I be not an Apostle vnto others yet am I vnto you for you are the seale of mine Apostleship in the Lord 1. Cor. 9. ver 2. Euen so if the Ministery of Englād be not the Ministery of Christ vnto others yet you can not doubt of it your faith your repentance your ioy in the Lord are the seale of it You can not but sée and knowe that they be vile blasphemous wretches which beare ye in hand that it is not the word of God nor the grace of his spirit which worketh in ye but the power of the Deuill and the spirit of Antichrist You knowe it is the direct way which the Deuill taketh by his ministers to bring in flat Atheisme to disgrace and throwe downe the credite of the ministerie But doth it not make against the Ministerie of England that many of the Brownists confesse they haue béene greatly moued at sometimes with the power of the preaching and at the administration of the Sacraments for may it not bée sayd héerevpon that it is but a deceyuable shewe of grace and power for if it had béene in truth it would haue continued I answer it is sufficient to proue the Ministerie and that the power of the holy Ghost goeth with it when men haue bin so moued although they do not continue séeing the reprobate do féele the power and taste the swéetnes of the word for a time Hebr. 6. He that hath therefore felt the power of God in his soule by the
the name and I haue heard diuers say they go beyond Browne But whosoeuer shal reade his books and peruse all their writings shall well see that he deserueth to haue the honour if any be and to be called the Captaine and maister of them all They haue all their furniture from him they do but open his packe and displaye his wares They haue not a sharpe arrowe which is not drawne out of his quiuer Then next touching the question betweene them and me let the reader consider it is not about the controuersie in our Church as whether there be imperfections corruptions and faults in our worship ministerie and church gouernment nor how many great or small But whether there be such heynous enormities as destroy the verye life and being of a true Church and make an vtter diuorse from Christ I will lay it open more plaine by a comparison which the Scripture vseth The Church is like a man in whom there be many parts and members Rom. 12. If all the parts or members of the body haue their iust proportion be whole and sound and set in their due order the soule and life departed he is no longer a man to speake properly but the dead carcasse of a man But now if he be sicke and diseased so that all partes are feeble or if he be deformed with sores and maimes wanting hand foote eye nose or such like yet is he still a man so long as the soule and life remaine in him All men doo know this to be true yea euen the simplest make no doubt or controuersie about it Let vs see therefore whether it be a fitte comparison with the Church and whether it be so in it of necessitie and as manifest by the doctrine of the holy scriptures as this other is vnto our bodily senses To finde this we must first consider whether there be no true Church of GOD but that which is perfect in this worlde Wee knowe that there are none but Heretikes yea ranke abhominable heretikes which obstinately deny this cleere doctrine of the holy Scriptures namely that euen the most faithfull and the most godly are not perfect while they liue vpon the earth We know but in part 1. Cor. 13. In many things we sinne all Iam. 3. v. 2. And who vnderstandeth his errors or who can tell how oft he offendeth Psal 19. The perfectest members of the Church doo erre doo sinne are maimed are weake are spotted and deformed many wayes Nowe whereas all the members be in this case needes must the whole body which is composed of them be in the same estate Then we may not looke for a Church in this world which is not spotted deformed maymed and weake in some respects But the question must bee how farre it may bee deformed and maimed and yet remaine aliue and so a true Church of God Let all the partes bee ioyned together let there be all sortes of officers and offices yet if the life and as it were the soule of the Church be wanting it is but a dead carcasse Contrarywise let there be some members wanting some maimed all parts deformed and weake yet is it a true Church of God so long as the soule and life dooth remaine in it And what is the soule and life of the Church Iesus Christ apprehended by faith I liue now saith Saint Paul but not any longer I but Christ liueth in me Galath 2. ver 20. All the members of the Church are incorporate and graffed into Christ by faith and doo growe in him and through the operation of his spirite receiue the iuice and sappe of life from him Iohn 15. Whosoeuer beleeueth in the Sonne of God shall be saued though he be full of errors full of infirmities and deformities both in body and soule labouring to be purged But if a man or an assembly do hold that which ouerthroweth the faith in Christ they are gone there is no life remaining As the Papacie holdeth many things aright touching Christ but it holdeth sundry things contrary which ouerthrow the very foundation of the faith and so the Papacie it selfe is not Gods true Church Thus haue I laide open the question betweene mee and the Brownists wherein then are the Maisters and Capitaines of Brownisme deceiued And what is it in which they seeke victorie and glory They knowe there is no sinne no error no corruption nor no abuse but that if all the learnedest in the worlde would take vpon them to cleere and to defend the same they shall not be able Then they are desirous of victorie of triumphe and glorye ouer all both wise and learned Heere therefore they entrench themselues they make their Bulwarkes plant their ordinance set themselues in arraye and sound the Trumpet of defiance against all They presume none shall euer be able to driue them out of their holde And indeed he that condemneth an error and goeth no further can neuer be vanquished But heerein they are deceiued that out of this Forte they will batter downe the Church For theyr ordinance is ouer weake for that they stoppe in powder in great plenty for they laye on toong enough and so make terrible thundering crakes But the Bullets which come foorth and which should doo the deed are nothing but hereticall erronious and fantasticall opinions and so all vanisheth into smoake They must therefore at the last leaue their holde and take them to their heeles for Gods Church will not be battered downe by any assaults of Schismatikes Some will thinke hardly that I terme them Schismatikes seeing they be men that are accounted zealous and stand for good things But the truth is they be not onely a Schisme yea a vile Schisme rending themselues from the Church of England and condemning by their assertions the whole visible Church in the worlde euen as the Donatists did of olde time but also they maintaine heresies and some that touche the very foundation of faith and Christian religion they be vtter violaters of ecclesiasticall discipline they abridge the power of the ciuill Magistrate beside sundry fantasticall opinions For when as the life of the church consisteth in the apprehensson of Christ through faith it must needs be an heresie to conclude as they doo a nullitie a quite ouerthrow of the same from errors faults which are not fundamentall Faith and regeneration being vnperfect in all that liue vpon the earth it is heriticall to say that is no Church of God which holding the sounde doctrine hath sinnes and great abuses in it The stablenesse of Gods couenant towarde the Church being founded onely vpon his free grace it is detestable impietie to hang it vpon the works of men as the Brownists do when they affyrme that where there is any open sinnes suffered in an assemblie the couenant is disanulled with them all And if men consider well they shall finde that the whole Brownisme resteth vppon the heresie of perfection and Anabaptisticall freedome For from hence that it
is written Ierusalem from aboue is the mother of vs all and is free with her children They boast of such freedome as that touching outwarde orders the Prince and Church hath no power to impose any thing by Lawes and Constitutions Which is one thing wherein they do not onely abridge the power of the Christian Magistrates denying them the authoritie to reforme the Church and to compell their subiects to the true worship spoyling the Church of that comfortable ayd but also condemne all reformed Churches which haue orders and prescript formes of prayers imposed which these Brownists tearme Idolatrie a tradition bringing Christian libertie into bondage and therefore a thing most detestable Moreouer they hold such a perfect freedome from all spirituall bondage of sinne that they affyrme S. Paule neuer consented to wicked thoughts after he was regenerate But in an other place they affyrme that all men be Idolaters and can keepe no one Commaundement where they are both contrary to themselues vttering that which ouerthroweth the whole Brownisme and also speake grosely For albeit there is no man perfect in any Commaundement yet the holy Scriptures do not call them Idolaters nor adulterers They boldly gayne say the holy Ghost by affirming that the Psalmes were not to be sung vnto God And touching the discipline which is the thing they most glorie of as if they suffered for it let all men know for certaintie that they be not only ignorant what it is but also do in their practise breake and ouerthrow the very pith and substance thereof in the chiefe rules For they take vpon them to abandon and cast foorth whole assemblyes which professe the Gospell and haue their estimation and dignitie among all godly Churches without obseruing the rule giuen by our Sauiour Christ Math. 18. They intrude themselues without calling beeing meere priuate men to the erecting and establishing of a publike gouernment forgetting that which is written I haue not sent them and yet they runne They cut off also the power of the Church in a great part of the discipline as namely in ordeyning constitutions in things that are variable Finally touching this poynt I may say boldly the Diuell can no way almost more disgrace Ecclesiasticall gouernment then he doth by them for it is the Sterne of Christes Ship and requireth men of the greatest wisedome learning experience and sobrietie that may be for to guide it Now when the common Artificer the Apprentise and the Bruer intrude themselues and they will guide the same being ignorant rash and headie what worldlie wise man will not take it that discipline her selfe is but a bedlem Who will aduenture himselfe in that Ship where presumptuous ignorance and bold frensie doth sit at the Helme Shall that Ship escape the rockes If it would please God to giue Browne the grace to repent and to speake the truth he could best declare this thing For when he had with certayne other drawne some both men and women ouer the Seas and there spread his Sayles how soone did his silly Boate dash vppon the rocke and was clouen in two or three peeces Let not men be deceyued with euery vayne shewe for vndoubtedly he that obserueth shall finde that the end of Brownisme is infinite Schismes Heresies Atheisme and Barbarisme For what other fruites can followe of the disgracing and condemning the liberall Artes of bringing the ministerie of Gods Word by which the religion and godlines that is in men hath been â—rought into vtter contempt What can followe from immoderate outragious rash furie wrath and bitter zeale and vainglorious contention which are earthly sensuall and diuelish If men could stay themselues but a while and see whether the same things spring not foorth which came from the Donatists and Anabaptists it were well For it is to be wondred at that any which professe the Gospell should be seduced and called away not only from the Ministers of the Church of England that haue taught them but from all the most worthy men and Churches vnder heauen and that by the voyce of the Deuill in such furious blinde Schismatikes In deede there be two speciall causes of it the one that sundry men receyue not the holy Word of God in humilitie with feare and trembling with conscience to practise but are puffed vp and swell with opinion of their knowledge as soone as they can vtter a fewe words and growe vnto vayne iangling yea vnto bitter zeale and contention in stead of being quiet as S. Paule willeth and medling with their own busines 1. Thes 3. and also in stead of following after righteousnes faith and loue 2. Timoth. 3. He that seemeth most zealous in religion and refraineth not his toong hath but bitternesse in steed of heauenly zeale For wheras in steed of gentlenesse meekenesse patience mercie and loue yee finde wrath fiercenesse intemperat rage vncharitable condemning and slaundering know for certainty that the true zeale is not there The other cause of mens seducing is that in this corrupt age there be many stumbling blockes and greeuous offences where indeed it is the part and duty of euery true Christian man beside the taking heede to his owne wayes most instantly to offer vp praiers and supplications to God to intreate him to shew mercie and compassion vpon vs by increasing all heauenly graces and giftes of his holy spirit in our most noble Queene and in all Gouernours both ciuill and ecclesiasticall that there may be feruent zeale to purge the house of God and to take away the causes of contention that we may not alwaies seeke to deuoure one an other but that vnity and concord may florish holding this withall that it is also euery mans dutie that will feare God to giue him hearty thanks for the inestimable treasures and blessings which he hath bestowed vpon vs by meanes of the happy raigne of our gratious Soueraigne and to take heed of that malignant spirite of Brownisme which would carry vs to this wicked opinion that she bearing the Sworde of God hath doone no more for vs then an Heathen Prince might doo For if we haue no word of God no ministery no Sacraments nor visible Church but all idolatrous and antichristian what hath she done what honor can she haue for defence of the Gospell This is no small dishonour and iniurie to a Christian Prince thus to diminish the loue of the subiects The Lord giue them repentance and grace to cease from such impietie and let all men with modestie reuerence and subiection and not with reproch and contempt seeke the redresse of abuses at their hands which be in Authoritie and not aduenture like Corah Dathan and Abiram to intrude themselues without calling and warrant from God They cryed out are not all the Lords people holy and therefore Moses and Aaron yee take too much vppon yee The Brownist proclaymeth that all the Lords people are free and therefore freely to deale and not to haue any thing imposed by any Be
false manner their worship being made of c. I did deny that by affirming that the worship of our Church is the imbracing the holy Bible by the doctrine thereof c Ye say I beg the question and prooue not our worship by the Bible And I say if yée call it begging you beg the question would haue that graunted vnto yée as true which is most false For excepting imperfections wants spots blemishes faults which destroy not the true worship of God our Church dooth worship the Lord aright without heresie blasphemy or idolatry The doctrine of our Church is published if yée can take exception against any point to be heresie or blasphemie bring it foorth that it may be tried by the Bible Then next yée complaine further that I do not answer one of those 4. apparant reasons which yée bring why it is false and contrary to the Bible Well then they may now be considered Thus yée haue noted them with figures ouer the head our worship being made of the 1 inuention of man euen of the 2 man of sinne 3 erronious and 4 imposed vpon vs. I know not for what cause they should be called apparant vnlesse by a farre fetched trope of Metonymie because they manifest and make apparant your vanitie and Anabaptisticall error For the first thrée be no more but one bare affirmation of that principall transgression which yée charge vs withall For all false worship is mans inuention whether it be the inuention of the man of sinne or of any other man it is all one before God who respecteth not persons but the wickednesse of the sinne Also to be mans inuention in Gods worship and to be erronious is all one For whatsoeuer man inuenteth in Gods worship is erronious and whatsoeuer in the same is erronious hath béene inuented by man So that the thrée first are all one bare affirmation and the very same with your article Your Anabaptisticall error is in the fourth for yée challenge such a fréedome to the Church as that nothing may be imposed vpon the flockes no not any thing that the Church gouernours shall decrée by the word which dooth ouerthrow the discipline in a great part Then yée procéed and say for further manifestation of our worship in particular let the booke of Common prayer be examined by the word of God which yée terme a great pregnant idoll full of errors blasphemies and abhominations If the booke stand to be tried by Gods word there is no doubt but as all things done by men euen the best it shall be found vnperfect He that will haue it to be no true worship of God in which there be errors and spots holdeth the heresie of perfection which is very foule and detestable for it is as farre beyond our power to bee perfect in Gods worship as to performe perfect obedience in the second table of the lawe And touching the booke of Common prayer let the reader consider it is not the question betwéene vs whether there be faults in it great faults or how many but whether it be a great pregnant idol full of heresies blasphemies and abhominations I confesse that all men ought with vtter detestation to shunne our worship if it be such as you accuse it But indéed your accusation is false your slaunders are foule and impudent This shall appeare by following your words as they be set downe where yée name those blasphemous abhominations which yée charge the booke withall in their seueral rankes Yée aske vs where we find in the new Testament our Romish fasts our Ember daies Saints éeues and Lent I am indéed out of all doubt and most assured that if a man read ouer not onely the new Testament but also both old and new from the very beginning to the end he shall neuer finde any allowance of Romish fasts I say likewise of the Booke of Common prayer that there be no Romish fasts in it and that yée doo most iniuriously slaunder and belie vs in matching our Church in this point with the blasphemous synagog of Rome For that Antichristian Church de rogating in all things from the Crosse of Christ hath vpon certaine daies and at certaine times times appointed an abstinence from meates placing therein the worship of God remission of sinnes and the merite of eternall life The Church of England dooth vtterly condemne this as the doctrine of Diuels 1. Timoth. 4 pronouncing them enimies to the crosse of Christ which maintaine meritorious fasting We teach that the kingdome of God is not meat and drinke but righteousnes and peace and ioy in the Holy-ghost Rom. 14. And that there is no holinesse in eating or not eating but an abstinence whereby we may humble our selues and be more feruent in prayer The politike lawes of this land which appoint that vpon certaine daies men shall not eat flesh doo it in respect of the common-wealth as to maintaine Nauigation so much the better by incouraging men to fish and for the spare of the bréed of yoong cattle appointing moreouer a penaltie for such as shall take the daies to be obserued as meritorious Romish fasts Therefore let all men héere at the first consider how sophistically yée doo argue that the Church of England dooth absteine from flesh vpon ember dayes Saints Eues and in Lent therefore the Church of England dooth maintaine and obserue Romish fasts Thus dooth one cracke of your great ordinance vanish onely into smoake Then yée say your idol feasts your Alhallowes Candlemas seuerall Lady dayes Saints dayes and dedicating Churches vnto Saints Héere also yée thunder out terror as if the Church of England did worship idols and celebrate feasts in the honour of false gods and yet all is but a starke lie and a wicked slander And I would wish all men to obserue the boldnesse and eloquence which yée haue in this vaine For whereas the synagog of Antichrist denying the onelye mediation of our blessed Lord Iesus did set vp the Saints as mediators did praye vnto them worship them celebrate holy dayes in their honour and dedicate churches vnto them the Church of England for these and such like abhominations hath separate her selfe from them teaching by the holye Scriptures that there is one God and one mediator betwéene God and man the man Iesus Christ That the same only true God is to be worshipped alone and called vppon through the only mediation of his beloued Sonne in whome he is well pleased That Saincts are not to be worshipped neyther the blessed Virgin nor any other nor no dayes to be celebrated in their honour nor Churches dedicated vnto thē how bitterly then do you sclaunder Ye will reply that the Saincts dayes be kept in our Church yea but ye must shewe that they be kept in their honour which ye shall not be able to doo séeing the contrary is manifest the Statute expressing that our Church doth call thē Holydayes not for the Saincts sakes but for the holy exercises
vsed vpon them in publike assemblyes Diuers Churches also among vs are called by the names of those Saincts which they were dedicated vnto but to say that we do therefore dedicate Churches vnto them is very ridiculous In the City Athens there was a place of Iudgement which bare the name of Mars S. Luke calleth it by the same name doth he therefore dedicate it also vnto that heathen God of battaile When we call S. Peters Church or Paules Churchyard it is but to distinguish them by the names by which they are commonly knowne and called Then follow our Comminations Rogations Purifications Touching Comminations they be a part of the Canonicall Scripture which is to be read in the Church Rogations I take to be the compassing in of the limits and bounds of Parishes which is commaunded only to auoide contention and strife that might growe and there is nothing in the booke of Common Prayer touching these that euer I could finde Purifications are annexed only to make vp your riming figure for neither the booke nor the doctrine of the Church of England doth speake of any Purification but only in the bloud of the Lambe There is a Thanksgiuing prescribed for Women after Childbirth but neyther for Iewish Purification or Popish Superstition therefore not in such sort to be condemned After comes in our Tithes Offerings Mortuaries For the Tithes and Mortuaries I do not finde them once named in the booke the Offrings in déede are But ye will say that is no great matter séeing they be in our Church That is true but yet they are but for maintenance of the Ministerie not as a matter tyed of necessitie vnto a Priesthoode as in the time of the Lawe and if they were the error could not be fundamentall In the next place are brought in our manner of visiting the sicke and howsling them with the Sacrament our Absolution blasphemous Dirges and Funerall Sermons ouer and for the dead There is prescribed a manner of visiting the sicke and so is there in the leiturgies of some other Churches that professe the Gospell but where haue ye séene it practised or the practise vrged by those that haue the gouernment of our Church at their hands which are able and diligent Pastors Whereby your iniurious dealing may appeare in charging all the assemblies as they generally stand in England with matters which the greater part do not practise nor yet are required For if the sicke man be by the Minister of the word instructed exhorted comforted and strengthened in faith and repentance yea euery way prepared to depart ioyfully in the Lord it is that which the booke aimeth at neither is there any more required although he vse no prescript forme set downe By your phrase of howsling with the Sacrament ye would make the simple beleeue that the Popish Howsling is retained among vs. This is but a false kind of packing seeing our Church vtterly condemneth all the wicked blasphemous corrupt doctrine of the Papists touching the Lords Supper and also denyeth that a man is of necessitie to receiue this Sacrament at his death If yes replie that howsoeuer we teach yet the booke implyeth a necessitie which appeareth by that it doth appoint a priuate Communion I answer that euen the booke doth denie it to be a matter of necessitie and doth appoint it but to relieue the trouble which might arise in weake consciences through the want thereof for these be the words of the booke The Curates shall diligently from time to time but specially in the Plague time exhort their Parishioners to the often receiuing in the Church of the holy Communion of the bodie and bloud of our Sauiour Christ which if they doo they shall haue no cause in their suddaine visitation to be disquieted for lacke of the same And if any sicke person that would receiue this Sacrament hath any impediment that he can not the Booke willeth the Minister to instruct him that if he do truly repent him of his sinnes and stedfastly beléeue that Iesus Christ hath suffered death vppon the Crosse for him and shead his bloud for his redemption earnestly remembring the benefites he hath thereby and giuing him hartie thanks therefore he doth eate and drincke the Bodie and Bloud of our Sauiour Christ profitably to his soules health although he do not receiue the Sacrament with his mouth How maliciously then do you charge the assemblies in England with howsling the sicke with the Sacrament when all the learned faithfull diligent Pastors do as the booke requireth exhort those that be of their flockes to the often receiuing of this holy Sacrament in the publike assemblie as the due place for publike seales and the people by instruction being growen so strong that they do not in their sicknesse require it and so in the most Congregations which are well taught the thing is not practise◠The Sinagog of Antichrist deuised a purgatorie which is blasphemous against the bloud of Christ They had indéed their Dirges euen blasphemous prayers for the dead That Purgatorie do we vtterly deny as a wicked inuention we condemne prayer for the dead and therfore where ye tearme those prayers which are read at burials blasphemous Dirges ouer and for the dead yee are more then impudent in lying Funerall Sermons I finde not inioyned by the booke nor commaunded by any Lawe Ye adde further our corrupt manner of administring the Sacraments the Font the Crosse in Baptisme Baptisme by women Gossippings the blasphemous Collects that we vse vnto this Sacrament Byshopings with all the hereticall Collects of the Booke which as ye say is a wearines vnto ye to repeate though not to vs both to tollerate and defend When ye shewe some reason why the Font is an abhomination I shall knowe what to say Touching the Crosse it must needes be confessed that it was blasphemously and horribly abused in Poperie they ascribing vnto it power to driue out and expell Deuils and worshipping it with deuine honour In my iudgement also the holy Church of God within short time after the blessed Apostles and the reuerend godly Pastors did offend in taking ouermuch libertie to ordeine Ceremonies Symbolicall as that and such like yet no doubt very reuerend godly learned men led by the example of those holy Fathers of olde haue iudged it lawfull for the Church to ordeine such Ceremonies Touching the Baptisme by women it is condemned both by the chéefe gouernours in our Church and others and is not practised vnlesse it be among the popish and supersticious ignorant sort By Gossyppings I suppose yée meane the witnesses at baptisme a thing vsed in the best reformed churches and thought to be expedient so that yée doo not heerein condemne the Church of England but all Churches Bishoping of children is little practised for vnlesse the people require it by offering their children few Bishops doo vrge them thervnto onely this excepted that they be taught and instructed in the Catechisme The
blasphemous collects which we vse in the Sacrament and all the hereticall collects of the booke doo trouble yée very sore and weary yée to repeat But if it pleased God I would ye were as weary of lying and slaundering as ye should be in séeking in all the collects of the booke if yée were bound to séeke and to finde I will not say some faultes séeing all things framed by the best men may haue imperfections and faults but some blasphemies or heresies If yée haue any regard at all what ye say gather your wits together consider what is blasphemie and what is heresie and then note the collect where it is and what it is There shall neuer any man be able to prooue that the Church of England dooth tollerate much lesse defend either blasphemie or heresie Yet you as if your words were true as the Gospell clap your wings and crowe saying but this candle may not be lighted least the people should sée into the abhominabl◠ingredients which you their Antichristian ministers doo giue them or rather sell them in the whore of Babilons cuppe All this is but your foule toong which is no way so eloquent as in rowling out slaunderous accusation of blasphemies heresies and abhominations with such like Moreouer whereas the case standeth thus in the church of England that there is controuersie about the Booke and that one part dooth approoue all things in the same as good and alowable or at least as tollerable the other condemne certaine things as corruptions and such as néede reformation I would know how ye could abandon all the assemblyes to this ye make a double answer first that vsing a part they do homage to the whole This is a foolish answer void of all reason for can we not praise the good things in a man but we shall allowe his faultes and imperfections Your second answer is this Neither can the cunningest of ye all make the best part of it other then a péece of Swines flesh an abhomination to the Lord. Who could imagin that such a frensie might take hold of any that in mad furie they should not spare after a sort to strike at God and to blaspheme that which is most holy for ye knowe right well that there is in the booke of Common Prayer much of the sacred Canonicall Scripture there is the Lords prayer the tenne Commaundements with many other partes and sentences there be the articles of the Christian faith are all these become Swines flesh an abhomination to the Lorde Let not simple men wonder that ye are bold to proclaime all the Ministers of the Gospell within this land to be the marked seruants of Antichrist when ye dare presume to set your stincking brand of pitch vpon the most holy things of God Ye will héere cry out of iniurie and say that ye estéeme all those parcels of the sacred Canonicall Scriptures in thēselues to be holy and pure What is it then which turneth them into Swines flesh and maketh them an abhomination to the Lord is it because they be bound together and make one booke with the hereticall Collects then take you héede least being in prison and fettred with heretikes ye be turned also into Heretikes If ye say it is our abuse which turneth so holy things into Swines flesh I aunswere that the abuse of holy things is abhominable but the things themselues remaine vndefiled and ye must remember that we deale touching the partes of the booke but abuse is no part thereof When ye say the best part thereof is no other then a péece of Swines flesh it can not be transferred from the partes vnto the abuses If it were graunted vnto ye which yet is to be denied as most fantasticall that all read prayer offred vp vnto God as a sacrifice is Idolatrie neuerthelesse your saying is wicked and blasphemous seeing that the reading is not any part of the booke neither doth it peruert or defile the things themselues which are read Thus your first accusation that we worship the true God after a false manner is with false sclaunder and furious outrage of spéech crying out of Idolatrie blasphemies and abhominations when as ye can shewe no one ground of the holy Religion and worship of God which is not holden sound and entire among vs only ye rippe vp corruptions and spots in Ceremonies orders and circumstances which touch not the foundation but are such as men may erre in and yet be Gods déere children and true woorshippers The Brow Iohn 4. 23. 24. God is a Spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and truth The reasons why wee disalow of read prayer in stead of spirituall prayers that though they may be read for meditation as any other mens writs yet is it Idolatry to offer vp to God such manner of sacrifices eyther priuately or in publique assemblyes 1 No apocripha must be brought into the publique assemblyes for there only the liuely voyce of Gods owne graces of the word and the spirit must be heard in the publique assemblyes And more lawfull is it to vse Homelyes then reade prayers vnto God 2 To do any thing in the worship of God without the testimonie of his word is sinne but there is no ground in the Scripture for such manner of praying as hauing no witnesse of the word whether God be pleased with them or no. 3 Admitte that it were a thing indifferent as we call it for the forme of prayer which is but a mockery to call reading in stead of spirituall calling on God to be but altering the forme or chaunging the manner whereas in deede it is changing the worke of the Spirit into an Image or Idoll Yet is it a bondage and breaking of that libertie which Christ hath purchased for vs and therefore most detestable 4 Because true prayer must be of faith and knowledge vttered with the hart and liuely voyce vnto God I am perswaded it is presumptuous ignorance to bring a booke to speake for vs such things as we could not otherwise vtter in Gods sight 5 To worship the true God after another manner then he hath taught is Idolatry but he hath commaunded vs to come vnto him being heauy loden with contrite hearts yea to cry out vnto him in the griefe of our soule yea and as S. Paule sayth The Spirit helpeth our infirmities with groning and sighing that can not be expressed and how dare we then being a dead tree vnto God to stand reading of the same in stead of faithfull petitions quenching the Spirit 6 We must striue in prayer with continuing with feruency without wauering which we can not doo vppon a booke 7 We must call vppon God in prayer at all times as the necessities of the time requireth not making a babling of many things whereof we haue not any present necessitie but stinted seruice cannot be so applyed so it is but a babling of vaine repetitions 8 All the deuises of Antichrist though it were otherwise lawfull not
from the booke which also dooth instruct me the like may be said when the congregation dooth pray with their pastor they fetch not the cause of their sighing from him but are stirred vp by him Your next words stand thus The reasons why we disalow of read prayers in steed of spiritual prayers that though they may be read for meditation as any other mens writs yet is it Idolatrie to offer vp to God such manner of sacrifices either priuately or in the publike assemblies Yée are very angrie that I termed your reasons by which yée oppose read praier vnto spirituall praier spirituall fantasies But take you héed that they grow not to be worse Yée are also gréeued that I call them your stuffe but how good stuffe it is let the pure word try I said it is false doctrine to make read prayer serue only for meditation My proofe was this that Christ saith not when ye meditate but when ye pray say thus Our Father which art in heauen and héere ye fling about as if ye had Béez For first ye exclaime that I make smal conscience to sclaunder ye because I said ye make read prayer serue only for meditation which is false doctrine Meditation as I take it comprehendeth all that is done in studying and musing when one readeth the praying is another If ye can shew a third vse when one readeth prayer I will confesse an error otherwise though ye haue not expressed the word only yet ye haue in effect vttered so much when ye say read prayer is not to be prayed Secondly ye charge me to deny that read prayer serueth for meditation at all which is in deede false doctrine because I said Christ saith not when ye meditate but when ye pray say thus Our Father which art c. Do I not say truly that Christ saith not when ye meditate but when yée pray say thus Our Father which art c. How can you then but like Spiders sucke that poyson from thence Thirdly ye accuse me that I make no difference betwéene our owne Leiturgies and the Canonicall Scripture which is a most friuolous cauill séeing our question is about reading of prayer whether it be Canonicall Scripture or framed from thence according to the rules of godly prayer Thus haue ye answered nothing at all vnto that commaundement which I alleaged giuen by our Sauiour to vse that prescript forme of prayer but only by shift and cauill Then ye goe about to proue that euery sinne against the first Table of the Lawe is Idolatry but with no shewe of reason And heere ye scoffe because I sayd if euery sinne that is against the first Table be Idolatry who shall be saued and ye demaund who is frée from Idolatry an absurd spéech for the Scripture doth not call the godly either murtherers théeues idolaters or such like I thought we had not reasoned about the reliques of sin which remaine in the best so long as they liue héere but of such grosse idolatry as a Church is to be condemned and forsaken which is defiled therewith But séeing ye confesse that all men be idolaters that is touching the remnants of sinne it must néedes followe that there is no Church frée from all spottes for if all the partes and members be defyled the whole can not be cleane This doth ouerthrowe all the arguments which yée bring to condemne the Church of England which haue no force vnlesse yée will maintaine a perfection for if a Church and euery member in it can not but of necessitie be spotted and defyled with some remnants of idolatrie euen by your owne confession then can ye not reason thus this is a fault it is idolatrie therefore this or that assemblie which is spotted is no true Church but to be forsaken But ye must stand to prooue that the idolatrie is so grosse that it destroyeth the faith ouerthroweth Gods true worship and so destroyeth the verie life béeing of a Church Thus much about your preface now follow your argumēts No apocrypha is to be brought into the publike assemblyes All read prayer is apocrypha Therefore no read prayer is to be brought into the publike assemblyes In my first answere I did deale only with the assumption or second part of this Argument affirming that I could not sée how it can be proued and shewing sundry absurdities that would follow as namely that a prayer of the Canonicall Scripture being read when one prayeth should become apocrypha c. But you replyed that those absurdities grow from my mistaking your words and I sawe it was so for our question being about the reading of prayer and not about the matter it selfe I tooke it that although yee hold the Lords prayer and other prayers in the holy Scripture to be Canonicall in themselues yet being read to become apocrypha because ye say all read prayer is apocrypha and did not expresse it with this restraint all read prayer framed by men is apocrypha I must now take the Argument as you say your meaning is and deale with both the parts thereof First then touching the proposition no apocrypha is to be brought into the publike assemblies what can be more false Apocrypha is opposed vnto Canonicall if nothing may be brought into the Church but the Canonicall Scriptures then the Sermons and prayers of the pastors and teachers are to be banished I knowe your meaning is not at all to exclude these although your words taking apocrypha as it is in vse among vs do in déede shut them foorth and not only them but any paraphrase vpon the Scripture as the Psalmes in Metre Now to your assumption which saith all read prayer is apocrypha first it is false touching the Psalmes and the Lords prayer which be Canonicall when they be prayed Then further I sée no fitnesse in applying the name apocrypha vnto our spéech to God though it be vsed for that which is not his vndoubted word to vs. For by what name opposite to apocrypha will ye call those prayers which ye do allow ye will not call them Canonicall this Argument therfore is false and friuolous Argum. 2. We must do nothing in the worship of God without warrant of his word Read prayers haue no warrant of his word Therfore read prayers are not to be vsed in the worship of God To this I answer at the first that it is great audacitie to affirme that there is no warrant of the word for read prayer whē there be sundry testimonies to warrant the same vnlesse ye will make a difference betwéene that which a man readeth vpon the booke that which he hath learned out of the booke Further I said I do not remember that euer I haue read in the holy Scriptures that God commandeth the prayer shall be read vpon the booke for he commendeth this diligēce in all his people that they should throughly learne to vnderstand not only the matters but also the sentences and phrases which his spirit
Sabaoth yée graunt it was at their méeting to magnifie the praises of God many other Psalmes But yée demaund what this maketh for stinted leiturgies papisticall and erronious imposed c. I say it maketh nothing at all for that which is papisticall and erronious But it prooueth that all read praier is not idolatrie and that it is no stinting of the spirit to vse a prescript forme of praier These fantasies of yours are first confuted thereby Then next I argue thus If I may vse a whole praier of the scripture and no idolatrie then a praier that is composed by the rules of the scriptures may be vsed and no idolatrie You deny that the argument drawne from the vse of the Psalmes dooth follow because praiers composed by men are not equall to the Canonicall scripture and so shut out all praiers if yée marke well what yée say that are framed by the Preacher For let them be holy and good yet yée may not set them as equall with the Canonicall scriptures Againe yée deny the argument by affirming that singing of Psalmes was no part of praier but onely for instruction and meditation ye take vpon ye to prooue this a little after and when I come to that ye shall haue answer The Psalm 102. ye say was not a praier of the Church because it is said O Lord heare my prayer and not O Lord heare our prayer a poore shift when vsually the church speaketh of her selfe in the singular number Touching the blessing ye say that forme of words was not to tie them to vse those words but after that manner which is manifestly false Touching the orders of singers appointed by Dauid I alledged it to no such end as you séeme to drawe it vnto But that in singing the Psalmes they did read them vpon the booke Héer now ye do not onely deny that singing of psalmes was any part of praier but also ye will prooue it by the testimony of S. Paul to the Ephesians and to the Collofs where he exhorteth thē to speake vnto themselues in psalmes hymnes and spirituall songs It is a foule audacitie contrary to the manifest word of truth to affirme that the Psalmes were not sunge to God séeing that not onely the speeches be directed in a multitude of places vnto him but also the Holy-ghost doth call vpon men in this wise Sing vnto God sing a new song vnto him sing praises vnto the Lorde But beside this you go further for in both places by you cited ye leaue out the latter part of the sentence which is that they should sing vnto the Lorde with grace in their hearts Let the reader peruse the places and iudge what kinde of tricke this is It is most cléere that they did reade the Psalmes vpon the booke when they did sing them It is also out of controuersie that they did sing them to the Lord vnlesse we will deny the flat word of the Holy-ghost and also affirme that albeit the spéech be directed to God yet they did not in singing speake vnto him It cannot be denied but that many of the Psalmes be full of petitions Also praise is a part of prayer and a spirituall sacrifice this was offered vp to God in reading vpon the booke for it is saide Sing praises to the Lorde therefore I conclude that read prayer hath warrant by the word and the reading dooth not make it idolatrie or contrarie to spirituall praier Héere yée complaine againe that this argument dooth not follow because praiers composed by men are not to be matched with the Canonicall scriptures I haue answered this poore stale shift already that the praiers composed by men are no further lawfull then they be framed by the rules of Gods word for prayer Thus haue I not as you charge me laid aside the question to make new questions but haue disprooued that your olde question by shewing that reading the praier which is godly dooth not make it contrary vnto spirituall praier nor idolatry Argu. 3. We may not in the worship of God receiue any tradition which dooth bring our liberty into bondage Read Prayer vpon commaundement in the assemblies is a tradition that dooth bring our libertye into bondage Therefore read prayer c. To the assumption of this argument I answered at the first which I particularly rehearsed how can yée then with any shew of truth say my words import a deniall of the Antecedents assumption and all My words are these The third argument saith that the forme of praier is a bondage and breaking our libertie with c. The prooues which I bring do onely ouerthrow the assumption for I did and doo acknowledge the proposition which you say my words import a deniall of I would wish yée to vse more simplicitie I say it is vngodlye and néere vnto blasphemy to affirme that prescript forme of prayer is a tradition bringing our libertie into bondage and a changing the worke of the spirit into an idoll My reason was and is that the Lord by Moyses prescribed a forme of blessing which the Préests should vse Nomb. 6. The Prophets as in the Psalmes prescribed many formes of prayses and prayers to be vsed of the Church Our Sauiour Iesus Christ prescribed a forme and sayd when yée pray say Our Father c. If the verie reading or vsing the prescript forme commaunded were a bondage breaking Christian libertie or a changing the worke of the Spirit into an idoll then the Lord God Moyses the Prophets and our Sauiour Christ are charged with a great fault Your reply is with some roughnesse of spéech which I omitte because it is but your fashion But for proofe that read prayer is mans inuention and thrust vpon the Church by constraint ye say England knoweth by wofull experience There hath béene I graunt in the Church of England variance about some matters to be read which are commaunded in the Leiturgie but not about the commaunding a prescript forme of prayer to be vsed for therein our Church doth agrée with all godly Churches that a prescript forme of publike prayers is conuenient yea the reformed Churches haue and do practise the same Héere therefore I would wishe the Reader to obserue that you Brownists doe not only condemne the Church of England but all the reformed Churches whatsoeuer and can be none other but méere Donatists For héere in this your third argument ye affirme that prescript forme of prayer commaunded is the changing the worke of the spirit into an idoll a tradition breaking Christian libertie and therefore most detestable In your fift Argument ye say it is a dead letter which doth quench the spirit But all reformed Churches doo by commaundement receyue and vse prescript forme of prayers Consider then what sentence yee haue giuen against all the visible Churches of our time and of former ages for it will come to passe that as the Donatists tooke themselues to be the only true Church in earth so must you
hath not the heart béene first mooued with the word of faith why may not the heart be mooued againe with hearing or reading the word and so vtter true praier the heart is mooued when one heareth the praier of the minister and presently sendeth forth praiers together with him Do ye imagine that the heart cannot both be mooued and pray at the same instant Is it not possible for one to pray in singing a Psalme Argu. 7. We must pray as necessitie requireth But stinted praiers cannot bee as necessitie requireth Therefore stinted prayers c. To this I answered approouing the proposition and in the assumption I did distinguish of matters to be praied for as that there be things necessarie to be praied for at all times and of all men of these a prescript forme may be vsed at all méetings of the Church There be matters not at all times néedfull to be praied for touching these there can be no prescript forme to be vsed continually yea some things fall out so rare that it were hard for as it is a fault to omit that which néedeth continually and of all men to be praied for so is it a grose babling to pray for things whereof there is no néed And if yée obserue the prescript praiers of all Churches yée shall find the regard of these two things that nothing necessary be omitted y t no praier be for such things as fall out sildome but they are limited to the time And further that which falleth out beside the prescript formes the ministers of the word are to supply And in the Church of England the Preachers are not limitted touching the matters of their praiers But if I meane by the things which be necessary to be prayed for at all times the Sacraments or any such thinges as Christ hath set foorth in his word wee should thinke our Sauiour Christ you say to haue forgotten himselfe that when he did commaund them to preach and baptize that he did not prescribe some forme of wordes for their praiers before their doctrine and Sacraments To this I aunswer I doo not holde that for the administration of the worde and Sacramentes it is of necessitie there should bee a forme of praier prescribed for the Minister may conceiue the prayers at the administration of the Sacraments as well as at the preaching of the worde But prescript forme is for conueniencie Neither am I of the minde that one precise forme is of necessitie Therefore yée reason verye fondlye in saying wee might thinke our Sauiour forgat himselfe that he did not prescribe a forme of wordes for their prayers before their doctrine and Sacramentes Your nexte wordes that then I must further saye that all things necessarye in the worship of GOD are not conteined in the Canonicall Scriptures and so euerye waye vpholde the Papists are euen as farre wide For all things necessarye and conuenient in Gods worshippe bee conteined in the Canonicall Scriptures But are you ignorant of this that there be many thinges conteyned in the Scriptures which are not in particular expressed but to bee gathered from the generall groundes and rules of doctrine What if one should obiect vnto yée there is no commaundement nor example of the Apostles in the scriptures for anye prayer to bee made at the Preaching of the worde and administration of Sacraments Therefore it is not conteined in the Scriptures that there should bee anye and so a thing not necessarye Would yée not flie to this that although it bee not expressed by anye commaundement that there should bee such prayers yet is it to bee gathered out of the doctrine conteined in the Scriptures How grosse are yée then in saying that this dooth vpholde the Papists But yée saye it were well I set downe what it is that may bee fitte at all times and for all persons to craue I maruaile anye should be so babling as to propound such a matter making doubt For can yée be ignorant that going through the whole Lords praier and opening the particulars there is no one petition but almost all branches of it are necessary to bee craued at all publike méetings and of all persons When will there bee a time and an assemblie in which it shall not bee fitte for all to make supplication that the name of the Lorde may bee sanctified that they may receiue the giftes and graces of the Holy-ghost to imbrace the true light of the Gospell to increase in knowlege faith and repentance to praye for Princes for the whole Church and for the ouerthrowe of Christes enimies to haue grace to obey and to walke worthy of the Gospell To craue all benefites for our necessary sustentation and the pardon of our sinnes with deliuerance from the deuill They bee all conteined in the Lordes praier but wee as children néede to haue them particularly expressed in that manner which may best helpe and guide vs. And touching praiers at the Sacraments they may verye well be the same séeing the thinges doo euer remaine the same which we are then to craue Vnlesse yée will maintaine that there bee thinges in administration of Sacraments at sometime to be prayed for and not at other Then so farre as prescript forme of prayer dooth fullye and fitlye expresse our néede it is no babling and so this your argument dooth not condemne it Read prayers were deuised by Antichrist and maintaine superstition and an idol ministerie Therefore read praiers are not tollerable c. Antichrist deuised manye blasphemous wicked prayers But to say that the reading or following a prescript forme of praier was his deuice is most false for there were leiturgies in the Church of olde before Antichrist was set in his throne And moreouer the prescript formes deliuered in the scriptures to be vsed and which were vsed and practised by the Church shewe that the thing is allowed by God Yée say I haue confessed that I neuer read in the scriptures any warrant to reade praiers vnto God and then it must néedes follow that it is antichristian I say you know that yée doo falsifie my spéech For I said and haue prooued that it is great audacitie to affirme that there is no warrant in Gods word for prescript forme of praier But I doo not remember that euer I read in the scriptures that God dooth commaund a man to reade the praier vpon the booke My reason is rendered that God dooth commend such diligence in all his seruants as to haue in memorie c. Will ye gather thus it is not expressely commaunded therefore there is no warrant it is not expresly commaunded that euer I read that the Minister shal make praier before and after his sermon Will yée charge me héerevpon that I say there is no warrant for it in the word There would sundrye inconueniences growe for want of prescript forme of publike praiers I did onely mention this that euery frantike spirit of which sort there may bee some in the Ministrie will not onely
be vnlike themselues but vary from others You reply that the Papists haue not so weake reasons for their idolatrous leiturgies rubrikes and Canons It appeareth by all your arguments how méete men yée are to iudge of the waight and sufficiencie of reasons alledged by the Papists or others Ye say if it be but in phrases of spéech that they differ it is no sufficient cause to ordaine leiturgies I graunt that is true then yée say if it be in doctrine or conuersation the censures of the Church are to helpe that I confesse that the censures of the Church are to redresse such things But your reason yet hath two defaults The one that ye deuide differing in administration of Sacraments and publike praiers but into two members difference of phrases and difference of doctrine When as there be sundry other differences as in order and ceremonies which the Church is to haue regard of and not to leaue arbitrary Your experience in these matters is not so great as your boldnesse The other fault is that because the censures of the church should redresse defaultes therefore there néedeth no prescribed order It is a world to sée how many men talke of the Censures and gouernment of the Church which knowe not what it meaneth The Church hath this power to ordeine according to the word of God and to appoynt such Orders in matters of circumstance about publike prayer preaching of the word and administring of the Sacraments as shall most fitlie serue for edification And then these Orders béeing established by publike Authoritie the Discipline and Censures of the Church are to driue men to the obseruation of the same Who is able to imagin the innumerable diuisions and offences which would arise in the practise of your Anabaptisticall fréedome in which yee denye the Church to haue power to ordeyne and to impose any orders I would the Ministerie of England were better then it is If by tearming it a franticke Ministerie you meant but to speake against vnlearned and vngodlie men you should haue leaue for me but you comprehend all the learnedest and godly whiche you could not bée bolde to doo vnlesse yee were taken with a frensie séeing there bée many whome yée are neuer lyke in any measure of giftes and graces eyther for knowledge or Godlynesse to approch néere vnto Well now yée fall to your sober reasoning agayne Paule commaunded the Colossians to admonishe Archippus you would haue a Leiturgie for your Ministers not onely to tell them what they should doo to men but also to God himselfe this is your last reason and hauing before spent your strength it is as a weake childe of your olde age If yee had no better I would neuer haue set this last For I meruayle vnlesse yee did it to mocke to what ende yee shoulde bring it in Archippus was to bée admonished by the Colossians the Pastors are to bée admonished by theyr flockes therefore there ought to bée no prescript forme of publike prayer Or is your meaning that the Leiturgies goe too farre in telling the Ministers what they shall say not only to men but to God himselfe Then I aunswere that the Colossians were to admonish Archippus to looke to his whole dutie Set Archippus aside for he doth not strengthen but weaken your argument and take these words only which séeme to carrie a great absurditie namely that the Minister should be told by a Leiturgie what he is to speake both to God and men I aunswere that the Leiturgie is not to teach Ministers which otherwise can not tell what to say it is not to maintaine an idoll Ministerie But to auoyd those inconueniences which I haue before mentioned and such lyke you may sée in the reformed Churches they haue Leiturgies and yet all theyr Ministers are able and knowe what to speake both to God and men I propounded this question that if read prayers and imposed Leiturgies bée Idolatrie where shall wée fynde a visible Churche You aunswere that in this poynt they might erre of ignorance and yet be the true Church This is some fauour yet the Church came nowe vnto yee in a lucky houre but yee may continue thus gratious least the poore Churches of England craue the like at your hande Haue yee not set downe that to reade a prayer vppon the booke is to woorship hym with a woorship disagréeing from his nature haue yee not sayd it is the deuise of Antichrist a dead letter quenching the Spirit stinting the Spirit not of Faith Idolatrie a changing the worke of the Spirit into an Idoll a tradition and bondage breaking our libertie which Christ hath purchased for vs and therefore a thing most detestable Doo yee not denye that to bée the Church of Christ which hath any thing imposed and yet yee saye touching Leiturgies imposed vppon all Churches they might erre in this poynt of ignorance and yet bée a true Church Your spéeches doo condemne all the visible Churches in the worlde wherein yée bée rancke Donatists But you woulde hide this and make shewe as though yée condemned only the Churches of England But if read prayers and imposed Leiturgies bée such as you affyrme in those spéeches which I haue mentioned how could ignorance excuse them And why may not the Church of Englande bée excused by ignorance let the Reader héere obserue the pride of ignorant blinde Scismatikes which imagine they knowe more then all the Churches of God in the earth You take it that I vse the Popish Argument of vniuersalitie and Antiquitie and so wonder what I will say against the Papists traditions séeing I fight with their weapons agaynst the truth Nay if yée could sée your owne blindnesse it would make ye meruaile in déede I reason thus It is manifest by the word of God that there should bée a true visible Church in earth but if imposed Leiturgies be such as you make them that could not bée so there could bée no true Church in as much as all Churches that are and that haue béene for many hundred yeares haue had imposed Leiturgies The Papists doo drawe theyr Arguments of Antiquitie and Vniuersalitie not from the Scriptures as you may sée this reason that I alleadge is but against the Scriptures And nowe how truly yée conclude touching this question of read Prayer and prescript forme of Leiturgies let the Reader iudge and whether the Scriptures that I haue brought doo not ouerthrowe your fantasticall and Anabaptisticall errors There were ioyned with these Arguments against read Prayer two other the first is this The Prayers of such Ministers and people as stand vnder a false Gouernment are not acceptable not onely because they aske amisse but because they breake Gods commaundement The other is The Prayers of such as bée subiect to Antichrist are abhominable Those Ministers which haue no power with theyr people to receyue in and to cast out hauing come in by the windowe are Antichristian and subiect to Antichrist therefore the prayers of
yée are farre wide for let it be that their next parents before haue béene hypocrites and vnfaithfull yet may they bée the séede of the faithfull for their interest in Gods couenant doth as béeing the seede of the faithfull not depend vppon theyr next parents but vppon the auncient Christians theyr fore-fathers for when he sayth I will be thy God and the God of thy seede the promise is made to a thousand generations Exod. 20. It is sayd that Leuy payd Tithes vnto Melchisedech because he was in the loynes of Abraham when he met Melchisedech and gaue Tythes Hebrewes 7. ver 9. 10. Abraham begat Isaake Isaake begat Iaakob and Iaakob begate Leuie and yet of Leuie it is sayd that he was in the loynes of Abraham yea it must néedes be confessed that all the whole Nation of the Iewes were in the loynes of Abraham Our Sauiour Christ according to the fleshe was in the loynes of Abraham For this cause Saint Peter calleth all the Iewes the children of the Prophets and of the couenant Acts. 3. ver 25. So doth S. Paule Rom. 9. and in that respect they be all called holie Rom. 11. If the first fruites be holie so is the lumpe if the roote be holie so are the boughes Abraham Isaak and Iaakob are the first fruites and the roote all the Israelites the lumpe and the boughes but were they all faithfull no nor yet the greater part for Esayas cryeth that if the number of the children of Israell were as the sand of the sea yet but a remnant should be saued Esay 10. How often doth the Lorde complayne euery where of the greeuous infidelitie and rebellion in the greatest part of that Nation Why then are they called holie and the holie people being many of them reprobates Is it not because they be Abrahams seede and were in the Church by outward profession adding this withall that the elect of God euen the right holie seede were in theyr loynes for Gods chosen did not spring only from the sanctifyed but also from other who touching the outward profession and touching the holy seede which was in theyr loynes were esteemed as members in the Church and were all of them euen the whole nation called the holy people It is not disalowed that in the times of idolatrie openly maintained their children were circumcised Nay further the Lord calleth the children of those wicked idolaters his children Thou hast sayth he by Ezechiel taken thy sonnes and thy daughters which thou broughtest foorth vnto me and sacrificed vnto them to be consumed Thou hast slayne my sonnes and giuen them by causing them to passe through to them Ezech. 16. ver 21. These Idolaters did offer their children to Deuils euen to the Idols of Canaan and shead innocent bloud euen the bloud of their sonnes and daughters when they caused them to passe through the fire Psal 106. If the promise to Abraham and his séede had not béen so effectual as that the holy chosen séede was in the loyns of these Idolaters how could they be said to bring foorth Sonnes Daughters to the Lord How could it be sayd thou hast slayn my sonnes or how could they rightly haue béen circumcised If ye say these Idolaters should not haue remained in the Church but if not by the Ciuill power put to death yet by the censure of the Church cast foorth Yea but there was so generall a declining that neyther of these was performed and so they remayned styll in the Church and brought foorth children vnto God euen such as the couenant made with Abraham did belong vnto they were in his loines they were his séede and not cut off by the wickednes of theyr next parents If yée obiect that the Iewes nowe at this day are the seede of Abraham and by that reason should be still the visible Church I aunswere that although there be Gods elect among them whome eyther he taketh away in their infancie or else calleth them to knowe Christ when they come to mans estate yet the Iewes can not now be called the visible Church nor the Church in as much as they haue reiected hym in whome the Couenant was ratifyed euen the Lord Iesus Christ and therefore he sayde vnto them the Vineyard shall be taken from those Husbandmen and let foorth vnto other And then expounding himselfe he sayth the Kingdome of God shall be taken from yee and giuen to a nation that will bring foorth the fruite thereof The Vineyard was not taken from those naughtie Husbandmen that killed the seruants of the Lord of the Vineyard which came for fruites euen the Prophets vntill they had killed the sonne and heire himselfe Now the naturall braunches are broken off and the wilde oliues euen the Gentiles are graffed in Rom. 11. They are nowe the children of Abraham and heyres of the promise as it is sayd I haue made thée a father of many Nations And in thy séede all Nations of the earth shall be blessed Our fore-fathers many of them declyned in the Apostasie and worshipped Idols but as the Idolatrous Iewes so they remayned still in the Church and brought foorth children to God that is such as were within the Couenant to be accounted the holie séede and so of right were to haue the seale of the couenant set vpon them euen Baptisme We can not say therefore that the Couenant was disanulled and that the Churche vtterlie fayled no not euen in the most horrible confusion of popery but Antichrist did sit in the temple of God 2. Thes 2 Those idolaters were in the Church and the heirs of promise in their loines for we and all the Churches are sprung out of them sealed with the signe of the Couenant as of right belonging vnto vs from our holye auncestors But you Brownists as Catabaptists denie that we haue the signe of the Couenant for yee say we haue no Sacraments If we bee not within the Couenant from our ancestours what are you who hath béene sent from God to call yée vnto a Couenant which yée were not within before Who hath giuen yée the signe of the Couenant or haue yee receiued a couenant without a signe How will you indure this terrible voice of Almightie God yée haue rooted vppe and cast foorth my sonnes and my daughters For if it were said to idolators yée haue slaine my sonnes how much more vnto you which in a most proud furie with intollerable boldnesse and crueltie roote vp and cast foorth the infants of whole assemblies which haue renounced idolatry and professe the Gospell because yée doo account them prophane Let it be they are many of them nothing such as they ought to be but sinners and such as should by the Censures of the Church bee brought into better order yet professing Christ and remaining in the Church their infants are not by their vngodlinesse cast foorth of the Couenant I conclude therefore that the Church of England or at the least many of the teachers and guides
doo offend in not executing the discipline vpon vngodly men to bring them to repentance but in receiuing their children to be baptized they doo not offend so they sée them taught in the faith and to liue a godlye life as our Church hath established yea in refusing them the infants should receiue great iniurie But to make this matter yet more cléere the question is to be answered whether the Church of Rome be the Church of Christ For the Brownists doo hold that our auncestors were not the Church of Christ in the time of poperie and that we now are confused multitudes not rightlye entered into couenant with God to become a Church séeing wee were not of Gods true Church before neither orderly entered into couenant Indéed if we were not within the couenant before from our auncestors nor entered orderly to become a Church the matter would séeme strong against vs. Let it therefore be examined I know this is the vsuall spéech of the learnedest Deuines the church of God is in the Papacie but the Papacie is not the church And it may be the sense will differ little or nothing but I take it a fitter spéech to saye the Papacie is in the church then to say the church is in the papacie For Antichrist dooth sit in the Temple of God his lawes his worship and all his abhominations were brought into the church All the men which receiued his marke and worshipped him were in the church yea euen the whole Apostasie was in the churche The church was before and that commeth after and entreth into or ariseth in it Then to the question if by the church of Rome we vnderstand the Pope his lawes his worship which hath béene deuised by himselfe his adherents and all that worship him or receiue his Marke I answer that this is that which may properly be called the church of Rome which is the papacie the apostasie and seduced to damnation and not the church of Christ otherwise then thus that the Pope the Cardinals and all that worship the Beast be false Christians by profession bred in the Church and continuing in it their séede not excluded from the couenant But if by the Church of Rome we vnderstand all those companies of people ouer whome the tyrannie of the Pope hath heeretofore extended it selfe or dooth at this day or those things which were giuen by Christ which remaine in the same I say this is not the church of Rome but the Church of God First if we respect the holye doctrine of God in all those points which were and are kept sound among them and the holye Sacrament of Baptisme Then secondly if we consider the kingdoms and people themselues all did not fall from Christ but many held the foundation the most of them lying scattered and hid in the desolations and ruines Thirdly if we regard that the infants not only of these faithfull but euen of the wicked Apostates which worshipped the beast were still within the couenant as the holy séed we shall see that the papacie was and is in the Church which is the Temple of God and not the synagog of Rome The Church of Rome then is not the true Church of God but the Church of Rome is the Apostasie in the church Let vs come then more particularly The church of England in the time of poperie was a member of the vniuersall church and had not the being of a church of Christ from Rome nor tooke not her beginning of being a Church by seperating hir selfe from that Romish synagog but hauing her spirites reuiued and her eyes opened by the light of the heauenly word did cast foorth that tyrannie of Antichrist with his abhominable idolatrie heresies and false worship and sought to bring all her children vnto the right faith and true seruice of God And so is a purer and more faithfull church then before Idolatrie was openly set vp in the church of Israel at sundrye times It did not as I haue shewed disanull the couenant of God with them nor debarre their children from the holy signe of circumcision but all the Iewes are called the children of the couenant Then let the Brownist shew some reason why it should bee otherwise in this case with our churches then it was with the church of Israel Thus much for the one part of your assumption wherein ye blame the church of England for receiuing in all by baptisme Now touching the other part of it in which ye affirme that there is no power to cast foorth any by excommunication yée speake very falsely For the church of England hath some power to excommunicate But you reason thus the person and all his parish hath not the power to excommunicate anye one offendor therefore the church of England hath not powre to excommunicate Is it possible if a man would study to reason absurdlie that he should excell yée Will yee argue thus euery seuerall part by it selfe hath not power to excommunicate therefore the whole together hath not the power It is not méete indéed that the Parson and his parish should haue the power to excommunicate vnlesse it bee such a Parish as hath the Consistorie of Pastors Teachers and Gouernours It séemeth yée haue great skill in the discipline of Christ The seuerall flockes about Geneua without the Citie haue euery one a Pastor and two Elders but yet they haue not the power to excommunicate but that is referred to the Consisiorie which is within the Citie Maister Beza Epist 20. Will yée say those seuerall flockes cannot be the Churches of Christ vnlesse their pastors and they together haue power to excommunicate They are members of that church which hath power to excommunicate But yée will say that the excommunication of the Commissarie is no excommunication and therfore our parishes be no members of a church which hath power to excommunicate The like yée will say of the excommunication by the Bishop himselfe and by the Archdeacon I aunswer that if it should bée graunted ye that their excommunication dooth not binde in heauen yet it is of force to remooue and dooth remooue from the societye of our assemblies which prooueth your accusation false because we reason about this outward remoouing But what if the Bishop together with sundry other Ministers of the Gospell doo excommunicate duely an obstinate wicked man is he not excommunicate before God If there be an heretike conuinced and found obstinate and the Bishops and Ministers of the Church of England assembled or some competent number of them as in the conuocation or such synod do duely excommunicate him is it no excommunication Will yée reason after this sort that because euery Minister with his flocke seuerally hath not the power to excommunicate therefore the Ministers of the Church of England are vtterly without this power You confesse that it is the Church of Christ which hath this power though it fault much by negligence in executing the same I would all Brownists could
consider what it is to excommunicate or to cut not onely particular persons but whole assemblies from Christ it would abate their horrible presumption Then for the suspension from the Sacrament by which the vnworthy either for ignorance or open wicked life are seperated from the néere fellowship of the Church I said yée might demaund by what right the minister dooth it Yée say that indéede would be knowne adding moreouer that if it be in the nature of Excommunication it were no small presumption in the Minister to arrogate such absolute authoritie to himselfe I hold it somewhat in the nature of Excommunication in such as haue béene before admitted but yet not to be compared as any thing néere so great as Excommunication and neuerthelesse I déeme it no presumption for the Minister to repell the vnworthy from the Sacrament He is to take héede to himselfe that he giue not holie things to dogs He is to beware of that which may giue publike offence and bring the holie mysteries into contempt It is in déede no small matter to debarre from the Sacrament The Minister therefore may easily offende in this case diuers wayes as namely if he be carried with euill will for priuate respects toward any and so aggrauate their offences and make that heynous which is not or if he doo not make the matter apparant so much as he can that the flocke may sée there is iust cause to repell them and no iniurie offered the crimes for which they are remoued being notorious Now because I sayd the booke of common Prayer doth warrant this héere yée set vp your bristles and first it may not be let passe but noted that euen the best of our Churches stand vnder this Idoll by our owne confession This is a speciall note and well marked Why did ye not knowe that we vse the booke in publike prayer and administration of Sacraments Then yee aske if the booke be Christs newe Testament that we must fetch our warrant and direction from that Idoll I might aske you a question whether ye be in your wits for doo we dispute héere whether a Minister is warranted in conscience before God to repell any from the Sacrament I thought that you Brownists whiche take vppon yee to iudge and vtterly to abandon and cast foorth whole assemblyes which professe the Gospell and which are estéemed of the godly Churches as Sisters had made no doubt but that by Gods word the Minister is warranted to repell a notorious wicked man from the Sacrament But I supposed yee would obiect that by the established order and gouernment of our Church all power to keepe the Sacraments from wicked prophanation is taken away from the Ministers and for this I alleadged the booke Let the Reader now iudge how fitlie yee clap your wings and crowe saying In déede it is a fit Portesse for such Priests and the suspension ye vaunt of a fit toole for such workemen euen the instruments of that foolish Shepheard If the iudgement of God you say were not vppon our right eye we might sée how our Lords the Byshops doo dresse vs and perceyue how this weapon that they allowe vs wanteth both edge and poynt c. You speake as if the Byshops did take vppon them and we submitte our selues vnto them as Lords ouer our faith and consciences and as though we were at theyr allotting when as in déede they bée but ministers to sée those orders kept which bée alreadie established and haue not authoritie to take from any Minister that power which the booke doth giue him much lesse can one word of maister Commissaries mouth heale the greatest wound as you say we can make with it Yee say not one in the Parish setteth a flye by it Yee speake so confidentlie and with such shewe of honestie that I should beléeue yee in these things if I had not for sundrie yeares tryed and séene your words false by experience I sayd such as be iustly Excommunicate as some are be not admitted to the publike prayer Héere yee bid sée how God insnareth me in mine owne words and how hard a bad cause is to defend What is the snare which I am héere caught in Forsooth I doo héere openly iustifie Excommunication by the Commissarie because we haue no other power or meanes and our Church wardens doo stand sworne to that Court But how shall I get out of your snare I must be fayne to breake it if it be not loose of it selfe What if when I say some are Excommunicate iustly I haue respect not to those which Excommunicate but to the desert of them that be Excommunicated Againe it is vntrue that ye say our Church hath no power but the Commissaries Court as I haue alreadie shewed Touching your next spéech wherein yee charge vs that we thincke to heale or at the least to couer enormities with these two drie withered figge leaues the one that we can not remedie the matter the other that priuate men are not to reforme the aunswere shall be more fitte when wée come to shewe what priuate men may doo Now let vs come to the other part of mine Answer which denyed the consequence though your accusation were true which is this Wicked prophane men are receyued in and retayned in the bosome and bodie of their Church therefore the Couenant is disanulled with them and they are no longer Gods people but a false Antichristian synagog To disprooue this I did alleadge that there were but a fewe true worshippers that frequented the Temple among multitudes of prophane and vngodly men To which ye reply that comparing our Church to the Temple of God and still begging the question I frame my Arguments as though our people were faithfull and our prayers holie I pray yee what is the question which I begge This say you is the question whether the assemblyes in England be the true Church of God and then yee woulde beare the Reader in hand that I reason in such sort as I would first haue this graunted that it is a true Church of faithfull people and holie worship You should haue done well to haue shewed how I frame my Arguments from the Question graunted But the truth is yee can shewe no colour héere of any such thing Nowe may I charge you and that iustly which I wyll also make apparant to all which will not shut theyr eyes that in stead of answering yee doo not onely cauill but most sottishly with a blinde shift For our question heere is this the Church of England doth receyue in and retayne in her bosome the prophane multitude therfore the Church of England is not the true Church To disproue this I reason thus the Church of Israel retayned the multitude of wicked ones in her bosome for there were but fewe true worshippers frequented the Temple among multitudes of prophane vngodly men Therefore this fault doth not destroy the béeing of a true Church neyther is the worship and prayers of the faithfull
This man dooth obey the Commaundement come out from among them separate your selues and touch no vncleane thing c. For he toucheth not their sinne but the holy things of God for the seperation from the wicked cannot be alwaies in body Where there is idolatrie practised and the faith and true worship ouerthrowne we must depart both in minde and bodye but from wicked men in the Church we cannot depart in bodye vnlesse we will also depart from Christ If it were otherwise how should the faithfull without pollution worship as they did in the Temple among so many prophane men and how should those few at Sardi Reuel 3 haue kept their garments vnpolluted among that heape of vngodly men Now let the reader iudge whether I haue in a frantike manner as you accuse me blasphemed the name of Christ by comparing yée vnto Anabaptists and Donatists in this your condemning and forsaking the Church for the euil men which be in it I would to God both you and others could consider that which is written of King Saul when as the holy Ghost saith he was zealous for the Children of Israel and Iuda 2 Samuel 21. and would roote out the Gybeonites Did not the Lorde declare by the thrée yeares famine and by causing some of the house of Saul to be hanged how curssed his cruell zeale was which yet hee had some colour of from the lawe which willed them to roote out the Heathen The cruell zeale of Brownists which séemeth to bee for the Church is more without excuse when they will néedes roote vp the naturall plants as now they may be called yea euen the whole assemblies both old and yoong The third accusation The Brow FOr that they haue a false Antichristian Ministerie imposed vpon them c. The third fault is an Antichristian ministerie imposed and maintained Héere is no reason rendred why it is a false and Antichristian ministery which is imposed If yée be Prophets raised vp of God then wee must beléeue that which you say but they did not lie in any matter but euery man may sée that you haue in the former article lyed wee may not therefore giue c. The Brow Heere you say is no reason rendered by vs why it is a false and Antichristian ministery which is imposed But if you had better weighed these two former transgressions wherewith we charge you or duly considered of this or of your owne answer before you had put penne to paper you might haue gained this labour you haue taken and shame you are like to suffer by these your friuolous and indirect answeres c. What reasons yée haue brought in your two former accusations or in this third to prooue the Ministerie of England Antichristian let all wise men iudge Indéed if we will admit false accusations and hereticall opinions for reasons then haue yée said somewhat for in them yée are prompt and plentifull The shame yée speake of that I am like to sustaine by mine aunswers I doo not feare at all It appeareth plainely by your words it dooth not please yée that yée are not encountred in disputation by some famous learned men so desirous yée are of that glory But is it méete or is there any reason that presumptuous bold and rash ignorance should not be incountred but with great learning Sophisters nay poore artificers and Husbandmen are the euenest matches to dispute with yée If I had counselled with my learned brethren yée say they would haue counselled me not to write You haue put on the Lions skinne and so imagine that all the learned doo tremble at yée and the truth is they haue espied your long eares But rather to haue vsed my discretion in the Pulpit as they doo where wee may saye what wee lust without controulement for they consider an euill matter is to bee raked in c. If I did not know the contrary yée are so confident in your spéeches that I should almost beléeue yée But now that I know as sure as anye thing may be knowne that you doo impudently slaunder and belie the learned who though they disdaine to deale with mad frensie yet they like well in respect of the poore people which are ready to be seduced that your matters should be aunswered how will yee perswade me or others that yée are not without care what yée speake And if there be any sparke of modestie leaft in yée I will not say make some due proofe but euen a colourable shew that the learned of this land if I had conferred with them would haue giuen that counsell vnto me which you affirme and for that cause which you mention Now come your reasons you are perswaded by the worde of God that a true minister of Christ cannot be a minister of idolatrous and false worship Yee are rightly perswaded and I am fully of your minde in this point But where yée say ye haue prooued our worship to be such therein yée faile for ye haue falsely accused but not prooued Then yee were also perswaded by the word of God that a true Pastor cannot stand an heard to the Lords Goates and Swine blessing them with the blessing of the faithfull and deliuering to them the holy things of God as the Sacraments c. I haue shewed also in that your second accusation how presumptuously and heretically yée haue dealt in iudging Christian men to be Heathen and Swine In this third accusation your reason is in the word imposed That ministerie which is imposed vpon the flockes is Antichristian because they be not fréely chosen by the Lords faithfull people c. But the Ministrie of the Church of England is imposed c. I take exception against both the proposition and assumption of this argument For the proposition albeit the imposing of a minister vpon the flocke may carry an iniurie to the Church depriued of hir priuiledge and right yet it dooth not followe that the same minister or his ministery is Antichristian Our Sauiour in the place ye alledge Iohn 10. speaketh onely of Heretikes and false Prophets which clime ouer into the shéepefold he speaketh not of any which lead the shéepe to the doore that is to Christ whether their calling to the office haue béene such in all respects or not as it ought to be Secondly if by frée choise of the faithfull you meane that in the choosing of a Pastor the people or priuate members of the flocke are to giue their voices or else the minister is imposed and Antichristian then doo yée condemne all the Ministers of France of Geneua and other Churches For they are not chosen by the voices of the people neither doe they hold that way the most conuenient for the people to declare their consent but rather theyr silence as yée may sée in diuerse Epistles of Maister Beza and namely in the last But when a flocke is destitute of a Pastor their choise is after this sort The Prebyterie or Senate of Pastors
and instructed to the Kingdome of Heauen as to be lyke Householders that bring out of theyr Treasures things new and old We desire to call men that wander in ignorance and sinne vnto the light and so to build the Church of Christ We know no man is to be Iudge of his owne sufficiencie nor to intrude himselfe into publike office but to be tryed and ordeyned by the Church which hath that power committed into her hands from Christ The supreme Magistrate and Church of England haue committed this trust vnto the Byshops iudging it the quietest and safest way We are presented vnto them to be examined and tryed to be ordeyned and put into possession of our Ministerie by them and from them to receyue the power to execute the same not as theirs but the Churches which hath put it into their hands It is the ordinance of God and not the deuice of Antichrist that Pastors and Teachers shall be tryed and ordeyned by Elders Pastors and Gouernours and set ouer his people We receyue only this Ordinance and such as haue any vnderstanding may sée that the question can not be whether the power it selfe bée from Antichrist but whether there be not error and defects in administring the same to the hurt and dammage of the Church Now further hauing receyued this authoritie we Preach the holie Gospell of Iesus Christ and by the pure doctrine of the same we conuince and ouerthrowe Idolatrie superstition and Heresies We correct and reprooue all manner of vices informe and exhort vnto true Godlines In performing these things we drawe men out of Poperie by letting them vnderstand that the worship of Poperie is the verie worship of Deuils and that the Pope is Antichrist This Romane Antichrist and his adherents doo féele that the ministerie of the Gospell in England doth destroy hys kingdome and therfore stirred vp by the Deuil they rage and by all diuelish meanes séeke to destroy our noble Quéene and Countrie Except therefore you Brownists had euen let loose all the raynes of your toong and after a shamelesse manner to lie and slaunder how could ye pronounce that the ministery of England is Antichristian and of the Deuill or that it is in the life and power of the beast to liue to raigne to stand to fall together with him as the branches with the trée In the next place yée haue whet filed your cankered toong to vtter verye vile reproche against the nurseries of all good learning and holy religion within this land the two Vniuersities I know not how idlely and in what heathen vanitie yée spent your time there your selues but this I dare avow and make the challenge and let triall be made I will beare the shame for euer if it be not found true that there be many in the Vniuersities and not aboue the degrée of Bachelour of Arts vnto whome the principall Maisters of Brownisme are inferior if wee respect either the Liberall Artes or the knowledge of toongs as of Hebrew Gréeke and Latine or a sound iudgement in Diuinitie If this can be attained in fewe yeares with more then Moonkish idlenesse the Brownists may in some thing be beléeued Some do abuse the liberall Arts but to condemne Logike Rhethorike and the rest as vaine and curious as you doo is a very beastly error Saint Luke from whom yée draw your phrase of spéech Act. 19. dooth not speake of these but of Magicall science I doo not maruaile that blind Schismatikes doo so bitterly iuueigh against learning séeing it is their bane For they séeke victorie triumphe and glorye ouer all the learnedest and if there were no learning to discouer and to lay open their nakednesse and shame they would much preuaile and be had in greater reputation Thus do the Brownists labour to bring in sauage barbarisme But yet héere vp goeth your saile againe and yée haue winde at will and neuer so much sea roome as when with bitter slaunders and reproches yée rowle away Ye wrappe vp altogether for the offences of some Yée reckon vp certaine things of circumstance and in themselues indifferent and yet vpon your credit we must take them to be odious enormities Ye are vp with perfidi tyrannie and the statutes of Omry Your frensie is great I did aduise that men would suspend their iudgement and enquire of the Churches touching the Ministerie of England Against this yée crie out and aske if it be the best counsell I can giue them I answer it is the best being that which God hath ordeined Haue yée not read that the Préests lippes shall kéepe knowledge men shall enquire at his mouth for he is the Angell of the Lord of Hostes By this it is cléere that whensoeuer Heretikes and Schismatikes doo raise doubts it is Gods will that the people shall enquire for resolution out of the word at their mouthes whome he hath raised vp and set as the greatest lights in his Church Yet sée how sottishly you cauill against this Yée take it I would haue them doo things which they doubt off and my wordes are but to haue them suspend their iudgement vntill they enquire and not to be too rash in following the call of blinde presumptuous and hereticall schismatikes Then yée say I send them ouer the sea we wotte not whether c. They make doubt of vs we are the men whose Ministery is in question we send them therefore vnto those of whome they can haue no doubt and that is to the worthy instruments and seruants of God the Pastors of other Churches I do no not send them ouer the Seas for there be diuerse godly Churches of strangers within the land as the French the Dutch the Italian there be the churches of Scotland and no sea to passe nor diuersitie of language so great as to hinder we haue also the writings of all the worthiest Yée say I send them vnto the word of man which is false for I doo send them vnto the learned pastors to be resolued by the word of God These haue the calling vnto this office from God and his blessing vpon those which séeke it with humility and reuerence It is not to vse old popish worne arguments but yours is the course of all arrogant proud heretikes schismatikes which couet to draw the people to depend vpon them that they may haue fame to forsake their Pastors which take it gréeuously that they should séeke resolutiō any where but at their hand Whether shall we iudge the godly learned ministers of the Churches aboue named which haue their calling from God or the vnlearned rash Brownists intruding themselues without calling and run before they be sent fittest to enquire at for resolution It were a pretie thing to heare the Harlots in the stewes euen in good earnest to boast and glory of their chastitie Who is more fierce and outragious more vncharitable in condemning then yée Brownists And yet ye bragge of such patience and charitie as cannot be
of Gods word to be true churches of Christ rightly entered and keeping couenant with the Lorde continuing in the order and obedience of his word c. and that we preposterously departed from yee vncharitably haue forsaken your fellowship But assoone as you shal shew vs such a church amongsts you by the grace of God we will shew how free we are from schisme As likewise when ye shall lay open our error vnto vs how farre we will be from heresie In the meane time we will not cease to pray vnto God for ye that he will not lay these sinnes vnto your charge which in your ignorant zeale you commit but in mercie shew ye the fearefull estate ye stand in and giue ye a heart vnfeinedly to repent speedely to turne vnto him C. G. Your owne bare words whatsoeuer yée professe by them cannot be sufficient to cléere yée from schisme and heresie I haue shewed that our Churches are from auncient discent within the couenant and that by such euidence of Gods word as no heretike or schismatike shall be able to ouerthrowe I haue also shewed that the stablenesse of Gods couenant with the Church is founded vpon the frée promise of his mercie which though we haue sinned with our fathers and doone wickedly so that there hath béen great apostasie in the Church yet he remembreth his couenant towards vs. I haue also shewed how preposterously ye haue departed arrogating that power to Iudge whole assemblies which dooth belong to the Churches of Christ and without any orderly procéeding according to the rule of the Gospell And moreouer that yee haue most vncharitably and falsely accused our Churches We cannot shew ye a church nor any one member of a church so perfect but that there be many defects and faults A true church being shewed among vs though yee repent yet can yee not be frée from schisme which is already committed And touching your hereticall opinions and grosse errors time will declare how well ye will performe this promise not to become heretikes I know I am in the right way albeit I am so farre from running that I doo scarse créepe I desire the praiers of all the faithfull that I may procéed in it But the praier which you promise to make for me is much fitter for your selues Article 4. The Brow We seeke to establish and obey the ordinances and lawes of Christ left by his last will and testament to the gouerning of his Church c. G. G. The fourth article ought all godly men to practise so farre forth as the limits of their calling doo extend But let it bee shewed that euer priuate men did take vpon them to reforme when things were amisse in the Church or that any of the Prophets did will them to take the matter in hand or shewe your warrant that ye be not priuate men The Brow This Article you first allowe and after restraine it to wee wot not what limits of calling But if ye graunt it to be the dutie of euery true Christian to seeke to establish and obey the ordinances and lawes of Christ left in his Testament to the gouerning of his Church without any altering c. It is as much as we indeauour or purpose Otherwise we allow not that which the law of God condemneth either intrusion without lawfull calling either transgression in calling or presumption aboue calling Our purpose is not to meddle with the reformation of the state otherwise then by our praiers vnto God and by refraining from all things that be contrary to Gods lawes c. G. G. You say that I first allowe this article and then after restraine it to ye wot not what limits of calling How is this true when I make the restraint euen in the first sentence for I allowe it no further then the limites of euery mans calling doo extend It is no maruaile that ye say ye wot not to what limites of calling I restraine it For if yée did regarde to kéepe within the bounds of calling yée would not thrust forward priuate men to doo that which GOD hath not called them vnto But yée plead for your selues that ye do not indeuor or purpose any thing beyond the limits of priuate calling Ye allow not as ye say that which the law of God condemneth which ye expresse in these words either intrusion without lawfull calling either transgression in calling or presumption aboue calling If yée could sée it you doo héere as it were put the halter about your owne neckes and about the necks of all Brownists for yee stande to this that the lawe of God condemneth intrusion without lawfull calling and presumption aboue calling and I wishe no sharper weapon to fight against ye withall But you thinke ye are well enough yet for all this for ye do not purpose to meddle with reformation of the state but by praier to God and refraining from euery thing that is contrary to Gods law And this is commaunded all men that will saue their soules All are willed to come out of Babilon Héere is a poore shift haue yée no other way to plucke of the halter which yee put about your owne necke then this I graunt it is the dutie of all men aswell priuate as other to obey Gods voice which calleth them out of Babylon and to seperate themselues from false worship I adde further that euen in the true Church it is the dutie of euery priuate man in all humble and peaceable manner to kéepe himselfe vnpolluted from those corruptions and abuses that créep in But doo you procéed no further then thus Haue ye not professed in the third article that ye will procéed vnto a godly frée choise of Ministers and other officers Doo ye not in this professe that yée seeke to establish the lawes of Christ to the gouerning of his Church Is this no more but to obey the voice of God calling vs out of Babylon Ye go beyond the common saying Giue some an inch and they will take an ell For God hath not called nor sent yee to performe such a worke I haue before layd open your foule slaunders wherewith yée accuse vs that our worship is idolatrous and Antichristian But admit the Church of England were Babilon and the synagog of Antichrist and that yée haue but obeyed the voice of God in separating your selues which is a worke of priuate men Yet who hath giuen ye the power authoritie to choose and ordeine Ministers to set vp and establish publike gouernment I would know this of ye whether it be a lesse worke to repaire a decayed place of a building or to build the whole frame whether it be lesse to swéepe the house or to set it vp It is the lesse to repaire and the lesse to swéepe all men will graunt Then I reason thus priuate men haue not authoritie nor ought not to take vpon them so much as to cleanse Gods house from abuses or to repaire the ruynes thereof how much
lesse ought they to take vpon them to set vp the whole frame You meane not to medle with reformation of the state but ye will erect a state and gouernment for is not the power of the Church both publike and great Ye will not daube the walles of Antichrist nor build Iericho no in déede ye are ouerprowd to be dawbers or to repaire ye will erect the Altar and build the Temple in Ierusalem such worthy men must haue a new building of their owne Thus may all men sée that ye confesse the lawe of God condemneth intrusion without lawfull calling and presumption aboue calling and yet ye take vppon ye being priuate and thrust forward other priuate men vnto the chiefe publike worke vnder the heauens but more of this in the next Article Article 5. The Brow We purpose by the assistance of the holy Ghost in this faith and order to leade our liues and for this faith and order to leaue our liues if such be the good will of our heauenly Father c. G. G. If men haue the truth it is good to stand vnto it to the death rather then to deny it as our Church in the same estate it is now in yéelded many blessed constant Martyrs But if a man haue not the truth it is great obstinacie to die for it as sundrie Anabaptists and other Heretikes haue shewed by theyr dying Euery true Christian will rather die then denie the discipline which Christ hath left but you must shewe that God commaundeth priuate men to set it vp The Brow The word of God and your owne mouth hauing approued our desires in these Articles we can not be moued with Satans old temptation to doubt of the Lords vndoubted truth or call his commaundements into question with if it be the truth c. Neyther can we be remoued with that old Popish reason ye bring of certayne blessed Martyrs that dyed in this estate your Church is now in This is not to approoue the state of your Church by Christes Testament which vntil you do though all the men in the world should both dye in it and for it yet could they not iustifie that God condemneth c. G. G. How the word of God and my mouth approoueth your most wicked intrusion without calling let euery wise man iudge Yee call it an old Popish reason that I bring of certayne blessed Martyrs which dyed in the state our Church is nowe in If you had no more frensie in yée then my reason hath Poperie it were much better for yée Let vs sée howe you or any Brownist is able to answere it That Churche which is of the Deuill and hath not the truth but is Antichristian can not bring foorth and nourish vp children to God But the Church of England in the estate it is now in brought foorth and nourished vp children to God séeing it yéelded many blessed and constant Martyrs Therefore the Church of England in the estate it is in hath the truth and is not a false and Antichristian Church When you haue shewed that a false Church can bring foorth and nourish vp true children to God yée may well saye that this is not to prooue our Church by Christes Testament If yee can not prooue that ceasse to cauill Yée denye them not to be blessed Martyrs but yee say that they dyed not in our Church nor for our Church Ye speake confidentlie but in the confirmation of your spéech yée shewe your selues most foolishe For yée say they dyed not in our Church béeing through Gods great mercie depriued and disgraded by theyr enemies All the Martyrs were depriued by theyr enemyes of theyr liues they could not depriue them of theyr faith nor of the truth which they had learned before from the mouthes of Gods Ministers in our Church What were they all disgraded of doo yée take it they were all members of the Synagog of Antichrist or stoode for any dignities or priuiledges in that fellowship vntyll theyr enemyes thrust them foorth Then yée say they dyed not for it but for the truth of Christ How will you separate things as contrarye which doo stand well together they dyed both for the truth of Christ and for our Church they constantly gaue testimonie to the truth and were content to indure any torments to confyrme theyr Bréethren in the same and therein may be sayd to dye for the Church I doo not meane that euery thing which they allowed must néedes be good for they had theyr errors and imperfections Neyther doo I reason after this sorte as though the Martyrs should dye for euery order and obseruation of our Church they dyed for the substance of that faith and woorship which our Church mayntayneth And as I sayd before you must prooue they were not begotten to God by our Church or else confesse our Church to bée the Spouse of Christ Doubtlesse if our Church did not bring them foorth and nursse them vp to God they were deceyued and departed out of the worlde such babes that they tooke a wrong woman for theyr Mother for they tooke our Church to be theyr Mother But you haue another Answere and that is that those Martyrs neuer resisted the truth béeing shewed them nor neuer yéelded vnto any yoake or corruption which God gaue them sight of contrarie to theyr consciences as yée say we doo in these dayes Then the difference will fall out betwéene them and vs that they offended of ignorance and stoode vnder Antichristes yoake yea some of them must be Antichrist himselfe in as much as they were Byshops and yet Gods true Church For yée say they were faithfull in that little light and wée offende of knowledge and therefore can not be the true Church Your confessing them faithful in that little light so Gods Church vnder the same gouernment we be which ye tearme Antichrists yoake doth quite ouerthrowe all Brownisme make what difference ye can betweene them and vs in truth yet shall it appeare that of necessitie graunt them to be the Church ye must confesse ours If ignorance excused them ignorance should excuse many among vs séeing there be multitudes in the land professing the Gospell that are perswaded we haue the truth and be in the right way both in doctrine and gouernment And againe ye are much deceiued if ye suppose that euery Christian man now hath so great vnderstanding as the chiefe of them had that suffered death in the dayes of Quéene Mary Would ye haue men beléeue that Browne himselfe and those Brownists which take themselues his equals haue greater light then eyther Ridley Cranmer Howper Bradford Philpot Taylor and other had when the learnedest in these dayes are not ashamed of those woorthie men but acknowledge them as excellent Diuines How absurd a thing is it that ignorant blinde Schismatikes full of fantasticall and hereticall opinions should boast of theyr great light in comparison of theirs Now we come to the last poynt of all and one of