See heere the fface of Romes renowned ffoe Graue larned Fulk whose worth his works best show T. STAPLETON and Martiall two Popish Heretikes confuted and of their particular heresies detected By. D. Fulke Master of Pembrooke hall in Cambridge Done and directed to all those that loue the truth and hate superstitious vanities Seene and allowed AT LONDON Printed by Henrie Middleton for George Bishop ANNO. 1580. A CATALOGVE OF ALL SVCH Popish Bookes either answered or to be aunswered which haue bene written in the Englishe tongue from beyond the Seas or secretly dispersed here in England haue come to our handes since the beginning of the Queenes Maiesties reigne 1 HArding against the Apology of the Englishe Church answered by M. Iewel Bishop of Sarum 2 Harding against M. Iewels challenge aunswered by M. Iewel 3 Hardings reioynder to M. Iewel answered by M. Edward Deering 4 Coles quarels against M. Iewell answered by M. Iewell 5 Rastels returne of vntruthes answered by M. Iewel 6 Rastell against M. Iewels challenge answered by William Fulke 7 Dorman against M. Iewel answered by M. Nowel 8 Dormans disproofe of M. Nowels reproofe answered by M. Nowel 9 The man of Chester aunswered by M. Pilkington Bishop of Duresme 10 Sanders on the Sacrament in part aunswered by M. Nowell 11 Fecknams Scruples answered by M. Horne B. of Winchester 12 Fecknams Apologie answered by W. Fulke 13 Fecknams obiections against M. Goughes sermon answered by M. Gough and M. Lawrence Tomson 14 Stapletons counterblast answered by M. Bridges 15 Marshall his defence of the crosse answered by M. Caulfehill 16 Fowlers Psalter aunswered by M. Sampson 17 An infamous libell or letter incerto authore against the teachers of Gods diuine prouidence and predestination answered by Maister Robert Crowley 18 Allens defence of Purgatory answered by W. Fulke 19 Heskins parleâ—â—ent repealed by W. Fulke 20 Ristons challâ—ng answered by W Fulke Oliuer Carter 21 Hosius of Gods expresse worde translated into English answered by W. Fulke 22 Sanders rocke of the Church vndermined by W. Fulke 23 Sanders defence of images answered by W. Fulke 24 Shaclockes Pearle answered by M. Hartwell 25 The hatchet of heresies answered by M. Bartlet 26 Maister Euans answered by himselfe 27 A defence of the priuate Masse answered by coniecture by M. Cooper Bishop of Lincolne 28 Certeine assertions tending to mainteine the Church of Rome to be the true and catholike church confuted by Iohn Knewstub 29. Sander vpon the Lordes supper fully answered by D. Fulke 30 Bristowes motiues demaâ—des answered by D. Fulk 31 Stapletons Differences Fortresse of the faith answered by D. Fulke 32 Allens defence of Priestes authoritie to remit sinnes of the Popish Churches meaning concerning Indulgences answered by D. Fulke 33 Martials Reply to M. Calfehill answered by D. Fulke 34 Frariâ—s rayling declamation answered by D. Fulke These Popish treatises ensuing are in answering If the Papistes know any not here reckoned let them be brought to light they shall be examined 1 Stapletons returne of vntrruthes 2 Rastels replye 3 Vaux his Catchisme 4 Canifius his Catechisme translated AN OVERTHROW BY W. Fulke Doctor of Diuinitie and Master of Pembroke hall in Cambridge to the feeble Fortresse of Popish faith receiued from ROME and lately aduaunced by THOMAS STAPLETON Student in Diuinitie THOMAS STAPLETON student in Diuinitie translated the 5. Bookes of Bedes historie of y â— English Church into the English toung before which historie it pleased him to set a table of 45. differences betweene the Primitiue faith of England continued almost a thousand yeares and the late pretended faith of the Protestants all which we will consider in order First are fiue Apostolicall markes found in their preachers and wanting as he saith in ours 1 Augustine whome he calleth their Apostle shewed the token of his Apostleship in all patience signes and wonders Bed 2. lib. 1. c. 30. 31. l. 2. c. 2. Miracles in confirmation of their doctrine Protestantes haue yet wrought none I aunswere Peter Paul Matthewe Iames Iohn c. are Apostles to vs sent not from Gregorie of Rome but by Christ him selfe out of Iewrie y â— signe of whose Apostleship being shewed in all patience signes and wonders and our doctrine being the same which we haue receiued of their writings needeth no other confirmation of miracles to be wrought by vs. If Augustine sent from Gregorie a man haue planted any humane traditions and confirmed them by liâ—ing signes and miracles as a forerunner of Antichrist which was euen immediatly after his time to be openly shewed or if by subtill practice miracles haue bene feigned to haue bene done by him and reported by a credulous man Bede it hurteth not our cause seeing other writers report him to haue bene both a proud and a cruell man And yet we receiue all that doctrine which he taught agreeable to the doctrine of the Apostles of Christ what so euer he taught beside we are not to receiue it of an Angell from heauen much lesse of Augustine from Rome 2 Their Apostles tendered vnitie labouring to reduce the Britaines to the vnitie of Christes Church Nothing is more notorious in Protestantes then their infamous dissention Augustine in deede laboured to bring the Britons in subiection to himselfe and to the Church of Rome which argueth no desire to Christian vnitie but fauoureth of Antichristian ambition and tyrannie as his cruell threatening executed vpon them did shewe sufficiently The dissention of the Protestants is not in articles of faith nor such but that they are all brethren that vnfeignedly professe the doctrine of saluation although they dissent in the matter of the sacrament in orders rytes and ceremonies 3 Their Apostles were sent by an ordinarie vocation Protestantes haue preached without vocation or sending at all such as the Church of Christ requireth They were sent by Pope Gregorie who had none ordinarie authoritie to send Apostles or preachers into foreigne countries Wherfore if they had any sending it was extraordinarie of charitie and not of office The Protestants that first preached in these last dayes had likewise extraordinaire calling But if the calling of the Papistes may be counted a lawfull calling they were called of the Popish Church to be preachers and teachers before they knewe or preached the trueth of the Gospell 4 Their preaching was of God by Gamaliels reason bicause their doctrine continued 900. yeares whereas the Protestantes faith is already chaunged from Lutherane to Sacramentarie in lesse then 20. yeares This reason of Gamaliel would proue Mahometes enterprise to be of God bicause it hath likewise continued 900. yeares yet it is false that the Popish faith hath had so long continuance For the Papistes are departed as from many other points of doctrine so euen from that of the Lords supper which Augustine planted among the Saxons vnto carnall presence and transubstantiation the contrarie of which were taught by Augustine as appeareth by the publique Saxon
world was without thes doctrine I wil hold that faith an olde man in which I was borne a childe A worthie saying of Hierome which may be rightly applied against the Papistes which teach such doctrine as neither Peter nor Paul would euer teach nor the Christian world knewe for 600. yeares after Christe yea for almost a thousand yeares after Christ in many pointes The like force is in the saying of Gregorie Nazianzen against the Arrian Ep. 2. ad Clidon Si ante hos triginti c. If our faith beganne but 30. yeares agoe when there are almost 400. yeares since Christe was shewed and the Gospell hath for so long space bene in vaine our faith also hath bene in vaine and they which haue giuen witnesse thereto haue testifid in vaine so many and so worthie prelates in vaine haue gouerned the people This saying is verified of Christian faith which had cōtinued in the world sixe seuen or eight hundreth yeares before Papistrie in many pointes began Christ hath bene preached and yet Papistrie neuer heard of yea what so euer doctrine had a latter beginning then Christ and his Apostles this father condemneth of error Euen as the same man writeth in the other place by M. Stapl. cited De Theod. li. 2. Vt haec praesidia omittam c. To omit these helpes yet it should satisfie vs that none of those which haue bene inspired with the spirite of God hath hitherto either pronounced this sentence or allowed it being vttered by any other and the doctrine of our church doth abhor it He braggeth not vpon the present opinion of y e Church but as the same hath alwayes bene allowed of al the Apostles and their successors and y e contrarie neuer receiued Therfore wheras Theodoret reporteth y t that confession of the faith was admitted in y e Councel of Nice which preuailed was published throughout y e world he meaneth not y t the Fathers folowed either y e multitude or the cōmon opinion of men which were reputed for the Church in that time but bicause y e same confession had alwaies euen from the beginning bene receiued and continued in y e Church as consonant agreeable to y e word of God by which the Church must be tried to be y e true Church wheras articles of faith are not proued true bicause they be helde by thē y ◠are commonly taken to be of y e Church To conclude The prescription of Tertullian against Hermogenes we do willingly admit offer to be tried therby y t whether of our religion or theirs is y e more auncient y t vndoubtedly must be truth But thē y e prescriptiō of 900. yeres wherof Stapl. so often so much doth cackle will not serue y e Papists as they cannot prescribe scarse halfe so long for many of their opinions For except we be able to proue our religion as auncient as the time of Christ and his Apostles we refuse not to be accounted heretikes If we teach nothing but that we can iustifie by manifest demonstration out of the holy Scriptures y ◠same also in the most principall points being confirmed with the testimonie of the auncient fathers of the primitiue Church the Papistes which accuse vs of heresie shall be found not onely to be heretikes but blasphemers of God and slaunderers of his Saints CAP. XIX It is proued by three reasons or arguments deducted out of holy Scripture that all the time of Papistrie can be no schisme on heresie and therefore was true Christianitie The first reason is this No heresie or schisme is vniuersall The faith of England these 900. yeares was vniuersall ergo it was no schisme or heresie The minor which is false he would proue by this reason The faith of England was the faith of France Spaine Italie Germanie and of all other Christian countries therefore it was vniuersall This antecedent is false for beside y t in England Fraunce Spaine Italie c. since the Church of Rome ceased to be the Church of Christ there were alwayes true Christians which yelded not to Papistrie as many regions as he hath named of the East countrie helde not the faith which was then openly receiued in England in many principall articles namely in that which they make to be y e chiefe of all y e article of the Popes supremacie and subiection to the Church of Rome therfore al Christened coūtries were not of y e same faith of Papistrie these 900. yeres He laboreth like a wise man to proue y t no sect is vniuersal but that Poperie was vniuersall it is sufficient for Papistes to say bicause they are neuer able to proue it The second reason is that no heresie is of long continuance to preuaile ouer true beleeuers to oppresse the trueth c. Papistrie hath continued these 900. yeares therefore Papistrie is no heresie Although the minor be not simply true yet y e maior is vtterly false But he would proue the maior out of S. Paul 2. Tim. 3. saying of such as should withstand the trueth like Iannes and Iambres that they should not further preuaile for their foolishnesse shall be made knowne to all men euen as theirs was Admit that this were spoken of those which should forbid marriage and meates which he would haue to be the Manichees 1. Tim. 4. as it is spoken of hypocrites which shall be in the Church to the end of the world yet here is no shortnesse of time prescribed for the continuance of their errour for he saide before 2. Tim. 2. vers 16. That they shall increase vnto more vngodlinesse and their word shall fret as a canker He meaneth therefore that they shall not long continue vnknowne not to all men but to all faithfull and godly men as the follie of Iannes and Iambres was not made manifest to all the Egyptians but vnto the Israelites Likewise whereas Peter saith 2 Peter 2. That the destruction of false Prophetes sleepeth not he meaneth not but that they may haue by succession a long continuance in the world for he him selfe admonisheth vs that we may not count the Lordes delaying of iudgement to be slacknesse as Stapleton doth if it should be deferred 900. yeares for one day with the Lord is as a thousand yeares and a thousand yeares as one day Heretikes therfore shal haue a quicke iudgement heresie shall shortly haue an end for that neither of both shal cōtinue alway vncondemned But that his maior proposition is vtterly false which is No heresie is of long continuance I shewe by these instances The heresie of them that ioyned Circumcision with the Gospell is more then 1500. yeares olde and yet it continueth in Affrica among Aethiopians as witnesseth Munster and other writers of Geographie as also the heresie of the Nestorians which is 1200. yeares olde and yet continueth among the Georgians Finally so auncient as the full tyrannie of the Pope is so auncient is the departure of
needefull nor profitable The memory of that godly learned man Maister Doctor Calfhill whome he abuseth is written in the Booke of the righteous and shall not be afraide of any slaunderers reporte Omitting therefore all friuolous quarels I will onely endeuour to answere that whiche hath in it any shewe of reason or argument to defende the idolatry of the Papistes In which matter also as many thinges are the same which are already satisfied in my confutation of Doctor Sanders Booke of Images so I will referre the reader to those Chapters of that treatise where he shal finde y â— which I hope shal suffice for the ouerthrowe of Idolatry This reply as the first treatise is diuided into ten articles all which in order I will set downe with such titles as he giueth vnto them But first I must say a fewe wordes concerning his request made to the Bishop of London and the rest of the superintendentes of the newe Church as it pleaseth him to call them and his preface to the reader His request is that the Bishops should certifie him by some pamphlete in printe whether 61. articles which he hath gathered out of Maister Calfhils booke be the receyued and approoued doctrine of the newe Churche of England able to be iustified by the worde of God and the Fathers and Councels within sixe hundreth yeares after Christ How wise a man he is in making this request I leaue to reasonable men to iudge And touching the articles themselues I aunswere that some of them be such as the Church of England doth holde and openly professe as that Latine seruice Monkish vowes the communion in one kinde c. are contrary to Gods worde the other be particular affirmatioÌ„s of Maister Calfhil which in such sense as he vttered them may be iustified for true and yet perteyne not to the whole Church to mainteine and defende as whether Helaena were superstitious in seeking y e crosse at Ierusalem whether Dionyse and Fabian were the one suspected the other infamed c. beside that a great number of them be so rent from the whole sentences whereof they were partes that they reteyne not the meaning of the author but serue to shewe the impudencie of the cauiller As that the counsels of Christe in his Gospel be ordinances of the Deuill the prayers of Christians a sacrifice of the deuill the councell of Elibeus was a generall councell c. Wherfore I will leaue this fond request with all the rayling that followeth there vppon and come to the preface to the Reader First he findeth himselfe greatly greeued that not only ancient fathers are by M. Calfhil discredited but also the holy crosse is likened to a gallowes c. which moued him to follow Salomons counsell to answer a foole according to his folly After this he taketh vpon him to coÌ„fute M. Calfhils preface in which he proueth y t no images should be in churches to any vse of religion because God forbiddeth them Exo. 20. Leuit. 19 in y e first table of religion His reply standeth only vpon those common foolishe distinctions of Idols Images of Latria Doulia which are handled more at large with greater shewe of learning by D Sander in his booke of Images Cap. 5. 6. 7. 8. whither I refer y e reader for answer Likewise y t discourse which he maketh to proue y t an image of Christ is not a lying image is answered in y e same booke Cap. 7. The authoritie of Epiphanius he deferreth to aunswer vnto y e 5. article To Irenaeus he answereth y t he only reporteth y t the Gnostike heretikes had y e image of Iesus but reproueth not y t fact But he reproued them only because they placed the image of Christ w t the images of Plato Pithagoras c. vsed them as y e Gentyles do This were in deed a pretie exception for a brabling lawyer to take but a student in diuinitie should vnderstand that Irenaeus in y t book Chapter li. 1. Ca. 24. declareth no fact of y e heretiks y t was good but his declaration is a reproof And so it is throughout that whole booke conteining 35. Chapters But he chargeth M. Calfhill for falsifying Augustine in sayng that he alloweth M. Varro affirming that religion is moste pure without images first quarreling at the quotation which by errour of the Printer is de ciuitate Dei lib. 4. Cap. 3. where it should be Cap. 31. a meete quarrell for such a lawyer secondly shewing that the Latine is Castius obseruari sine simulachris religionem that religion woulde haue beene more purely kept without Idols or fayned Images as though there be anye Images but fayned and the worde Imago euen in their owne Latine translation of the Bible is indifferently taken for Idolum and simulachrum and that in many places Deut. 4. ver 16. 4. Reg. 11. ver 18 Sapient Cap. 13. 14. Esai 40. ver 18. 44. ver 13. Ezec. 7. vers 20 where imagines simulachra are both placed together Ezech. 16. Ca. 17. Amos. 5. ver 23. wher he sayeth Imaginem idolorum the image of your Idols and many other places declare that this counterfait distinction was not obserued no not of the Latine interpreter As for his other logicall quiddity wherin he pleaseth him selfe not a little that religio non suscipit magis minus sheweth that eyther his lawe is better then his Logike or else both are not worth a strawe Further he chargeth M. Calfehill for adding words which are not founde in Augustine where images are placed in temples in honourable sublimitie c. These wordes are founde in the Ep. 49 ad Deogratias Cum hiis locantur sedibus honorabili sublimitate vt a praecantibus atque immolantibê° attendantur when they are placed in these seates in honourable sublimitie that they are looked vpon by them that praye and offer c. But Martiall looked onely to the quotation Ps. 36. 113. Yet doeth not M. Calfhill rehearse the wordes but the iudgement of Augustine from which he doth nothing varie except Martiall will cauill at the wordes images in temples where Augustine sayeth Idola hiis sedibus Idoles in these seates speaking of temples in which images were placed But he speaketh saith Martiall in the Psalmes against the images of the heathen and not of the Christians Then reade what he writeth De moribus ecclesiae Catholicae lib. 1. Cap. 34. de consensu Euangelist lib. 1. Cap. 10. where you shall finde his iudgement of such images as were made of Christians to be all one with those of the Gentiles The iudgement of other doctours whome he nameth you shall finde aunswered in the 14. or 13. Chapter of Master Sanders booke of Images That the Iewes had no images in their temple he sayth it is a Iewish and Turkish reason to proue that we should haue none Much like y e priest that would not beleeue in Christe if he
the Latine and learned tongue lib. 1. cap. 29. lib. 4. cap. 18. which the Protestants haue altered There is no such thing to be proued in the first place nor any thing sounding the way but only this that Gregorie sent into England to Augustine many bookes of which it is a Popish consequence to gather that they were bookes of Latine seruice In the latter it is declared that Iohn y e Chaunter of Rome brought from thence the order of singing and reading and put many things in writing which pertained to the celebration of high feastes and holidayes for the whole compasse of the yeare But this being almost an hundreth yeres after the cōming of Augustine it appeareth the Church of England had no such Latine seruice before For Gregorie willed Augustine to gather out of euery Church what ceremonies he thought expedient for the English Church and bound him not to the orders or seruice of the Church of Rome And it may be gathered that long after there was no certain forme of administration of the sacramentes put in writing generally receiued but that the priestes which then were learned ordered the same according to their discretion for their chiefe labour was in preaching and instructing For Beda reporteth vpon the credite of one which liued in his time and was Abbot of Wye Herebald by name that he being in great extremitie and daunger of death by falling from an horse S. Iohn of Beuerlaye the Bishop that was his master asked him whether he knewe without all scruple or doubt that he was baptized or no to whome hee aunswered that he certainely knewe that he was baptized and tolde the priestes name that baptized him To whome the Bishop replied saying If you were baptized of him doubtlesse you were not well baptized for I knowe him well and am right well assured that when he was made priest he could not for his dulheaded wit learn neither to instruct nor to baptize And for that cause I haue streightly charged him not to presume to that ministerie which he could not do accordingly By this it may be gathered that the forme of baptisme was not set downe in writing which euery dulheaded dogbolt priest can reade but that it was referred to the learning of the minister which did instruct them that were of age and came to receiue baptisme But this ignorant priest whome S. Iohn of Beuerlay depriued of his ministerie could neither cathechise nor baptize for which cause the yong man being cathechised againe and after he recouered of his fall was baptized a newe as one that was not rightly baptized before Moreouer lib. 4. cap. 24. Beda sheweth of one Cednom in the Abbay of Hilda to whome was giuen miraculously the gift of Singing and making Hymnes for religion in his mother tongue of the creation of the world and all histories of the olde Testament of the incarnation passion resurrection and ascention of Christ c. which by all likelihoode were vsed in the Churches And when Latine seruice was first vsed it is not incredible but that the people did meetely well vnderstand it for the Latine tongue was in those days vnderstood in most places of the Westerne Church And Beda noteth some especially which vnderstoode no language but the Saxon. The interpreters which Augustine brought out of Fraunce do confirme this coniecture For the rude Latine tongue spoken in France was better vnderstood of the vulgar people then that was spoken at Rome and in Italie for which cause there was a Canon made in the third Councel at Toures that the Homilies should be turned in rusticam Romanam linguam into the rude Latin tongue that they might more easily be vnderstoode of all men Againe the Britaines and Pictes which conuerted the greatest part of the Saxons howe could they haue been vnderstood preaching in Welsh but that the vulgare Latine tongue was a common language to them both Finally the manifolde vses of diuers Churches as Sarum Yorke c. declare that the Latine seruice was but lately in comparison set downe when knowledge decayed both in the Priestes and the people 27 Protestants haue plucked downe altars which they had of olde time They had altars but standing in the middest of the Church as y ◠tables stood in the Primitiue Church 28 Altar clothes and vestments vsed of them Protestants admit not A sorie ceremonie in which no part of Christianitie consisteth The like I say of the 29. holy vessels 30. holy water and 31. Ecclesiasticall censure about which there was no small adoe 32 Their primitiue Church was gouerned by Synodes of the Clergie only in determining controuersies of religion which Protestants haue called from thence vnto the Lay court onely The latter part is a slaunder vpon the Protestantes the former part a lye vpon the auncient Saxons for at the Synode holden at Strenshalch not only the kings Oswine Alfride were present but also king Oswine did order the Synode and in the end concluded the matter in controuersie lib. 3. cap. 25. 33 The spirituall rulers of the primitiue Church were Bishops and pastours duely consecrated protestants haue no consecration no true Bishops at all This is an other lewd slander against y e Protestants for they haue true Bishops though not cōsecrated after the Popish manner Laurence the second Archbishop of Canterburie acknowledgeth the Ministers of y e Scots and Britaines for Bishops although they were not subiect to the Church and See of Rome lib. 2. cap. 4. Aidanus Finanus Colmanus are iudged of Beda for true Bishops although they were deuided from the Church of Rome and so are such Bishops as were ordeined by them for they conuerted the greatest part of the Saxons vnto Christian faith As Northumbrians Mertians and East Saxons 34 Protestants haue brought the supreme gouernement of the Church to the Lay authoritie in the primitiue faith of our countrie the Lay was subiect to the Bishop in spirituall causes And so are they nowe in suche causes as they were subiecte then But that the supreame authoritie was in the ciuill Magistrate at that time it may appeare by these reasons First Pope Gregorie him self calleth the Emperour Mauritius his souereigne Lord lib. 1. cap. 23. 28. 29. 30. and after him Pope Honorius called Heraclius his souereigne Lord lib. 2. 18. King Sonwalch Preferred Agilbert and Wini to be Bishops afterward he deposed Wini which for mony bought for Wulfher king of Mercia the See of London lib. 3. cap. 7. Earcombert king of Kent of his princely authoritie purged his realme of idolatrie and commaunded that the fast of 40. dayes should be kept lib. 3. cap. 8. King Oswine ordered the Synod at Strenshalch li. 3. cap. 25. Oswine and Ecgbert kings deliberate touching the peacable gouernement of the Church and by the choice and consent of the Cleargie did nominate Wighard Archbishop of Canturburie lib. 3. cap. 29. King Ecgfride deposed Bishop Wilfride li. 4. ca. 12. Ost for
holde Aelf Serm. Pasc Ep. 3 The Church of English Saxons did giue the communion vnder both kinds vnto the people which the Papistes doe not Aelf Serm. Pasc Beda lib 1. cap. 27. lib. 5. cap. 22. 4 The Priestes of that time said no priuate Masse on working dayes but onely on holy dayes which therefore were called Masse dayes Aelfr Ser. Pasc. Popish priestes euery day 5 The people did then communicate with the priest Beda lib. 2. cap. 5. The Popish priest eateth and drinketh all alone 6 The English Saxon Church did celebrate Easter with the olde Iewes in one faith although they differ from them in the kind of external sacraments whereby they affirmed the substance of the sacraments of both the testaments to be all one which the Papistes denie Aelfr Serm. Pasc. Epist. Bed lib. 5. ca. 22. 7 The sacrament of the Lordes Supper was not then hanged vp to be worshipped nos caried in procession bicause they had not the opinion of carnal presence which the Papistes haue c. 8 The English Saxons Church denied that wicked men receiued the body and bloud of Christ. Aelfr Serm. Pasc. The Papistes holde that not onely wicked men but also brute beasts eate the body of Christ if they eate the externall sacrament thereof 9 The English Saxons allowed the Scriptures to be read of the people in the Saxon tong whereof Canutus made a lawe that all Christian men should diligently search the lawe of God The Papistes denie the search of Gods lawe to all Christian men that are not of the Cleargie or learned in the Latine tong 10 The English Saxons decreed in Synode after Latine seruice preuailed and the knowledge of Latine decaied that the priestes shuld say vnto the people on Sundayes and holy dayes the interpretation of that Gospel in English Aelfr lib. Can. which the Papistes neither do nor will suffer to be done 11 The English Saxons commaunded that al men should be instructed by the Priestes to say the Lordes praier the Creede the ten Commaundements in the English tong Will. Mal. li. 1. de part Aelfr in lib. Can. Canut in leg which the Papistes haue taught to be hereticall 12 The English Saxons decreed in Synode and king Canutus made a lawe that the priestes should instruct the people in the vnderstanding of the Lordes praier the Creede c. vbi supra which the Papistes altogether neglect affirming ignorance to be the mother of deuotion 13 The worshipping of images and the second Councel of Nice that decreed the same was accursed of the Church of God in England and France written against by Alcuinus in the name of the Church of England and Fraunce Math. West Symeon Dunel Rog. Houed c. The Papistes defend both that idolatrous Councel and their wicked decree 14 The Priestes in the primitiue Saxon Church were married for three or foure hundreth yeares witnesse all histories of England which the Papistes doe not allowe 15 The vowe of chastitie was not exacted of them that were made Priests for the space of more then 400. yeares after the ariuall of Augustine into Kent which decree was made by Lanfrancus in a Synode at Winchester Anno 1076. 16 Notwithstanding this decree and many other both Priestes refused to make that vow and kept their wiues by the kings leaue Gerard. Ebor Ep. ad Anselm Histor. Petroburg Papistes permit neither of both 17 Lanfrancus decreed that such priestes as had wiues should not be compelled to put them away the Papistes enforce Priestes to put away their wiues 18 The Popes y t were founders of y e English Saxon church acknowledged the Emperors to be their souereigne Lordes Bed li. 1. cap. 23. lib. 2. cap. 18 19 Pope Honorius toke order y t the Archb. of Canturb might be cōsecrated in England w tout trauelling to Rome Bed l. 2. ca. 18. The latter Popes denied this 20 Pope Gregorie exhorteth king Ethelbert to set forth the faith of Christ to his subiectes to forbid the worship of idols c. Bed lib. 1. cap 32. The Papistes would not haue the ciuill magistrate gouerne in Ecclesiasticall causes 21 And least you should say as M. Sander doth that the king was herein the Bishops Commissarie Earcombert king of Kent of his princely authoritie purged his realme of idolatrie and commaunded the fast of 40. dayes to be kept Bed lib. 3. cap. 8. The Papistes denie that a king may doe such things of his princely authoritie 22 Kings in those times preferred men to Bishoprikes Bed lib. 3 cap. 7. which the Papistes affirme to be vnlawfull 23 Kings in those dayes deposed Bishops as Senwalch did Wini Bed li. 3. cap. 7. Ecgfrid deposed Wilfride lib. 4. ca. 12. which the Papists do not admit 24 King Ecgfride would not receiue Wilfrid being restored by the Pope Bed lib. 4. cap. 13. lib. 5. cap. 10. The Papistes count it blasphemie not to obey the Popes decree 25 The same Wilfride being againe depriued by means of king Aldfride and being the second time absolued by y e Pope could not be restored to his Bishoprike but by a Synode of his owne Cleargie Bed lib. 5. cap. 20. By which it appeareth the Cleargie were not then in perfect slauerie to the Pope 26 Kings in those dayes were present at Synodes and ordered them and concluded in them as Oswine did at Strenshalch lib. 3. cap. 25. 27 Archbishops were commaunded by Kings to consecrate Bishops as Wilfride was to consecrate Ostfor at the commaundement of king Edilred Bed li. 4. cap. 23. Papistes denie Kings to haue souereigne authoritie in ecclesiasticall causes 28 Priuileges of Monasteries sought at Rome had first the consent of the king vnto them Bed lib. 4. cap. 18. Papistes of later times seeke priuileges against the kings will 29 Monkes in y t time were called to serue y e Cōmon wealth as Sighard a Monke was made king of y e East Saxons lib. 4. ca. 11. Papistes call such Apostataes 30 Monasteries were thē Colleges of learned mē to furnish the Church with Ministers and Bishops li. 4 ca. 23. Among Papists they be stals to feed idle bellies y t serue neither the Church nor the Common wealth 31 Studie of the Scriptures and hand labour was the exercise of Monkes in those first and better times Bed lib. 4. cap. 3. Idlenesse and vaine ceremonies is the exercise of Popish Monkes 32 Monasteries were founded that men might in them heare the word of God and pray Bed li. 3. ca. 23. Popish Monasteries in latter times were builded only to pray for mens soules and to say Masses in them c. 33 Vpon Sundayes the people vsed ordinarily to flocke to Churches and Monasteries to heare the word of God Bed lib. 3. cap. 26. In popish Monasteries there neither was nor is any ordinarie resort to heare the word of God nor any ordinarie preaching 34 The Monkes of that time were all learned preachers Bed lib. 3. cap. 26. The Popish
Monkes are most vnlearned and fewe preachers out of their dens 35 In those dayes euery Priest and Clearke was a preacher so that when any came to any towne y e people would resort to them to be taught of them Bed lib. 4. cap. 16. The greatest number of Popish Priestes in these latter dayes are most ignorant Asses and void of all spirituall vnderstanding 36 Vnlearned Priestes were forbidden to serue in the Church Bed lib. 5. cap. 6. in so much that S. Iohn of Beuerley baptized againe a young man which was baptized of an vnlearned Priest The Papistes allowe vnlearned Priestes to baptise and say Masse that can not cathechise and instruct their hearers 37 Songes and Hymnes out of the holy Scriptures were made meete for religion in the mother tongue Bed lib. 4. cap. 24. Papistes can abide no songs of scripture in the English tongue 38 Anchorets of that time laboured with their handes Bed lib. 4. cap. 28. Popish Anchorets liue idly and labour not with their hands 39 Dirige and Masse was saide for Saint Oswaldes soule by which it is manifest that they esteemed the Masse to be a sacrifice of thankesgiuing lib. 3. cap. 2. 40 Bega a Nunne after she sawe the soule of the Abbesse Hilda carried into heauen exhorted her sisters to be occupied in prayers and Psalmes for her soule Whereby it appeareth that the doctrine of purgatory was not yet confirmed among them Lib. 4. ca. 23. Nothing is so certainly defended among Papistes as purgatorie 41 Holy men fasted then with eating of milke as Egbert Bed lib. 3. ca. 27. and Cedda fasted lent with egges and milk lib. 3. ca. 23. Papists of later times haue vtterly forbidden all white meates in Lent and fasting dayes 42 There was a Church of Christ in Britaine before the comming of Augustine not subiect to the see of Rome which continued long after his comming lib. 2. cap. 4. The Papistes account none Christians but such as be bondslaues to the see of Rome 43 Laurence the 2. Archbishop of Canter accompteth the Bishops of the Scottes and Britaines for Bishops although they were not subiect to the see nor Church of Rome Bed lib. 3 cap. 4. The Papistes take none for Bishops that be not vnder the see of Rome 44 The Churches of the Britaines were builded after another forme then the Churches of the Romish obedience Bed lib. 3. cap. 4. The Papistes affirme there were no Churches euer builded but in fashion and vse of poperie 45 The Schottish Churche instructed from Ireland obserued all such workes of deuotion as they could finde in the Prophetes Gospels and Apostles writings and therefore of Bede and the Englishe Church were acknowledged for Christians although they would not become members of the Churche of Rome Bed li. 3. ca. 4. The Papistes hold that there is no saluation out of the Church of Rome which is a newe Church in England in comparison of the elder that was before Augustines time 46 Aidanus a preaching Bishop hauing no possessions labouring to fulfill all that was written in the holy scriptures the prophets and Apostles shining in miracles both in his life time and after his death was neuer subiect to the Church of Rome yet accounted a Saint of the Church in those dayes Bed lib. 3. cap. 16. The Papistes allowe no saintes but canonized by their Pope 47 The exercise of Aidanus company both shorne and lay men was reading of the Scriptures and learning of the Psalmes Bed lib. 3. cap. 5. The exercise of Popish Bishops servants is nothing lesse 48 The greatest parte of the English Saxons were converted to Christianitie by the Britaines Scottes that were no members of the Church of Rome As all the kingdome of Northumberland both Bernicians Deires were conuerted by Aidanus except a fewe persons whom Paulmus the Romaine in long time had gained The whole kingdome of Mercia which was the greatest part of England receiued the faith and baptisme of Finanus the Scot the successour of Aidanus Bed lib. 3. cap. 21. The East Saxons by Cedda that was also of the Scottishe ordering lib. 3. cap. 22. The Papistes affirme that all our religion came from Rome 49 Ceadda was consecrated by Wini bishop of the West Saxons assisted by two Britain Bishops that were not subiect to the see of Rome was neuerthelesse accompted for a lawfull bishop Bed lib 3. 28. 50 Beda accounted Gregorie for the Apostle of the Englishmen lib. 2. cap. 1. The Papistes nowe take Augustine for their Apostle I omit many other opinions and ordinances of that age as Augustine would haue none forced to religion that Wednesday should be fasting day The bishop of London should haue a pall as well as Yorke c. wherein the Papistes differ from them that bragge of nothing but antiquity vniuersalitie and consent AN OVERTHROW of Stapletons Fortresse or as he calleth it himselfe the piller of Papistrie The first Booke CAP. I. AN introduction declaring the necessitie of the matter to be treated vpon and the order which the auothour wil take in treating thereof OMitting the necessitie of the mater his order which he promiseth to keepe is this First he wil proue if he can that Papistrie is the only true Christianitie This proposition he will followe by two principall partes In the former he will proue by authority of Scriptures and answering of the aduersaries obiections that the Church cannot possibly erre Secondly that this Church must be a knowne Church that no malignant Church can preuaile against it that Papistrie can be no schisme nor heresie In the latter part after a fewe reasonable demandes that protestantes must not refuse to answere putting the case that the knowne Church of 900. yeares is a kinde of papistry he will proue that the faith of protestants is differing from that was first planted among Englishe men in more then fortie pointes and that in all those pointes of difference he wil shew they agree with the first 600. yeares which he saith but falsely that protestants offer to be tried by For although the Bishop of Sarum made challenge of many articles nowe holden of the Papistes not to be founde within the compasse of the first 600. yeares and therefore to be newe and false doctrines yet neither he nor any protestant liuing or dead did euer agree to receiue what doctrine so euer was taught within the first sixe hundreth yeares But this I dare avowe that what article of doctrine so euer we do affirme that same hath bene affirmed of the godly fathers of the primitiue Church what so euer we denie the same can not be proued to haue ben vniuersally affirmed and receiued of all the godly fathers by the space of the 600. yeares together CAP. II. That protestantes doe condemne the vuiuersal Church of Christ of these many hundreth yeares and the reason of the whole disputation following grounded therevpon To prooue that the Protestants condemne the uniuersall Church of
Donatistes we affirme that the Catholike church of Christ is and hath beene euen in the most darke times of Antichristes kingdome dispersed throughout the whole world nothing doubting but God which preserued 7000. in one corner of Israel not much greater then some shyere of England hath preserued seuen thousand thousande in all partes of the wyde world which neuer bowed their knees to the Romish Baal nor kissed him with their mouth CAP. IIII. Proofes and testimonies one of the Prophet Esay that the Church of the Messias continueth for euer vnto the worlds end assisted alwayes by God himselfe The testimonies of the perpetuitie of the Church out of the Prophet Esay with the exposition of Hieronyme vpon them maketh nothing against vs which willingly acknowledge the same But denye that they perteine to the Popish Church which had her beginning long after Christe and his Apostles and her full tyranny confirmed more than 1000. yeares after Christe The same Hierome disputeth against the custome of the particular Church of Rome and appealeth to the Church of all the worlde Si auctoritas quaeritur orbis maior est vrbe c. If authoritie be sought the world is greater then a citie And againe Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis consuetudinem What bringest thou forth to mee the costome of one citie Euagr. We stand for the Catholike Church of Christ dispersed ouer all the world against the particular schismaticall hereticall and Antichristian church of Rome which though shee haue inuaded by tyranny ouer a great part of Europe yet neuer did shee preuaile ouer the whole Church throughout the world not yet ouer all Europe CAP. V. The doctrine of Caluine touching the Church is examined to the touchstone of the holy Scriptures alledged Wherein also is treated and disputed by what markes the Church may be known First he confesseth that Caluine hath learnedly largely and truely treated of the vnitie authoritie and obedience of the Church He affirmeth also that he acknowledgeth a visible Church in the worlde whose communion we ought to keepe and of her to receiue the spirituall foode of doctrine and sacraments which ought not to be forsaken for the euil life of the members thereof All this he commendeth and alloweth But herein he sheweth his malicious cauilling stomak that he supposeth Caluine to affirme that the vniuersall Church of Christ is visible where he speaketh but of particular congregations members of the whole which are visible not to the world always but to the members of the same The markes of the Church which Caluine sayeth to be true preaching of the worde of God and due administration of the sacraments although he confesseth them to be in the Church yet he denyeth them to be the markes of the Church For the marke must be better knowne then the thing whereof it is a marke but the Church is more euident then those markes ergo they be no true markes The minor he proueth by that which Caluine teacheth that wee must learne of the Church the true meaning of the Scripture But hereof it followeth not that y e Church is better known then these markes For there is a farther tryal which ought to be better known by which both are to be knowne namely the worde of God whereunto wee must haue recourse to trye whether those things that are preached are euen so in deede as the Thessalonians did by the preaching of Paul Barnabas Act. 17. ver 11. The vnmouable trueth is to be sought in the Scriptures what preaching or Church agreeth with that trueth is to be receiued none other And whereas he sayeth that Heretikes challenge these markes as well as Catholiks I grant they do so but no more do they challenge these markes then they challenge the Church to be on their side for there was neuer heresie but they bragged as much of the Church as of the trueth Therefore the Church is not more cleare then these markes but these marks tryed by y e worde of God are more cleare then the Church which is therefore the Church because it maintaineth true doctrin The doctrine is not true because the Church maintaineth it The cause is better known then the effect for knowledge is to vnderstand by causes But M. Stapl. hath two better markes then Caluine describeth To wit the vniuersalitie and communion of all nations The continuance and euer-remaining thereof among Christians These markes by no Logyke can be causes of the Church but adiuncts vnto it and therefore the worst arguments that can be to knowe it by euen such as the foolish mans argument was that knew his horse by the brydle But admitt these to be proper adiuncts of the Church yet shall not the popish Church be able to prooue those to be her markes For Popery neither doth neither euer did possesse all the worlde except a peece of Europe be all the world The Church of Christ is Catholike although there were but three of foure persons in all the worlde that mainteined true doctrine as there was not many when Christ his Apostles and a fewe other were the onely Church in all the world and the Catholike Church before they were dispersed into many nations For y e Church is called Catholike or vniuersall not because all men or most men do pertaine vno it but because all that be members of Christ howe many or howe fewe so euer they be and wheresoeuer they be are members of that Church But M. Stapl. sayth The vniuersalitie of the Church is a matter euident to the eye therefore the Catholike Church is alwayes visible To this I answer that if the Catholike Church or the vniuersalitie thereof were alwayes visible or at any time visible or the vniuersalitie thereof euident to the eye it should be no article of faith for faith is of such things as are not seen with the eye but beleued with the heart Heb. 11. ver 1. We agree with Augustine against the Donatists that no heresie was in all countreys in all ages For Papistrie which is the greatest heresie apostasye was neuer in all countryes all ages But if an heresie were in all countries and ages yet proueth it not it self to be a Catholike trueth Idolatrie hath beene in all countries and ages yet is it not thereby prooued to be a Catholike trueth The Church of Christe whereof we are members hath bene in al partes of the world and in all ages though not alwayes not euer receiued of the greatest part of men And if this be a most cleare and euident marke as he saith that no heretike can pretende to be ioyned in communion with all Christian countries The Popish Church hath not this marke which is not ioyned in communion with the Greekes Armenians Chaldeans Aethiopians and so many nations as at this day and since the Apostles times haue bene Christened Countries But nowe wee come to the seconde marke of the Church The continuance thereof
although marked with a whot iron yet can not but inwardly confesse that this prophesie perteyneth especially to Papistrie the greatest heresie that euer was CAP. XII Other common obiections of protestantes taken out of the law discussed and assoyled The obiections are these where was the outwarde face of the Church in the time of Noe in the time of the departing of the tenne tribes in the dayes of Elias He aunswereth out of Augustine De vnitate ecclesiae against the Donatistes cap. 12. which made the same obiections that as these examples of fewnesse of the Church are read in the Scriptures so the Church to be dispersed ouer all the world is read in the same Scriptures and therfore it can not be restrained to the communion of Donatus in Affirica The like say we how of euer it pleaseth his malice to slaunder vs that the Church is and was these 1500. yeares dispersed ouer the whole worlde and therefore can not be restrained to the faction or communion of the Pope in a parte of Europe Concerning the apostasie of the 10. tribes he answereth that the Cleargie vide licet the Priests and Leuites remained in sound religion and many of the people so God hath his Church alwayes which we denie not Yet in the dayes of Manasse where can he shewe me any Cleargie of the Iewes that continued in sound religion And yet I doubt not but there were some particular persons for GOD had his Churche among them euen then But the outward face of the Church was all turned into idolatrie and false worshipping of God Where he saith except the Church had remained in Europe these 900. yeares protestantes should not haue had from whence to departe I answere protestantes are not departed out of the Church of Christ but out of Babylon And yet I acknowledge that there were members of Christes Church dispersed yea and Churches gathered also in the time of deepest ignorance in moste regions of Europe though not regarded or condemned for heretikes in Calabria in France in England in Bohemia Finally whereas he would seeme to repaire the Popes losse in Europe with the recouery of large countries in the East wise men may easily see and fooles also may laugh at it howe vaine a bragge it is to boast of matters so farre of as none can beare witnesse of but himselfe and such as he is CAP. XIII That the true Church of Christ which continueth for euer is a visible and known Church no priuie or secrete congregation His name is Thomas forsooth and therefore he saith he will neuer beleeue that there was any other Church but the Church of Rome except he may so see it that he may point to it with his finger But gentle Thomas our Sauiour Christ saith blessed are they that beleeue see not If the catholike Church of Christ might be seene at any time it should be no article of our faith which is an euidence of thinges that are not seene Heb. 11. The members thereof as seuerall congregations are seene sometimes of many of all sortes of men sometimes of them onely that are true members of them but Ierusalem which is aboue and is the mother of all the faithful is not seene but with the eyes of faith Therefore Thomas if you wil neuer beleeue the Catholike Church except you see it with your bodily eyes you can neuer be any member thereof You alledge out of Esay 2. The hill of the house of the Lord shal be prepared in the toppe of all hilles c. This is fulfilled in the calling of the Gentiles which haue not ceased to walke in the light of our God since they were first called though not alwayes in like numbers not always in fauour with the powers of the worlde nor alwayes in sight of the blinde worldlinges And Christ is the light of the Gentiles vnto the vttermost partes of the earth therefore not vnto one part of Europe only as you Popish Donatistes do affirme And the Apostles were the light of the worlde to carrie the light of saluation vnto the furthermost partes of the earth And their seede shalbe knowen among the Gentiles and their buddes among the people All that see them shall know them that they are the seede which the Lord hath blessed The Church of the Gentiles confesseth the seede of Abraham which sometimes was obscure and knowen to fewe to be the blessed seede and reioyceth that by faith she is engraffed into the stocke of Abraham to be partaker of the same blessing All this prooueth no light sight or knowledge of a Church to be pointed at with vnfaithfull Thomas his finger but heauenly spiritual and to be discerned by faith Againe when Esay sayeth God hath prepared his arme in the eyes of all nations and all the endes of the earth shal see the saluation of our God he meaneth to the electe and chosen of all nations to the predestinate people Not onely so sir Protestant Why so syr Papist The Prophet sayeth further Quibus non est narratum viderunt qui non audiuerunt contemplati sunt Such as the Messias hath not beene preached vnto yet they haue seene And such as haue not heard haue yet beholden Ergo not the Electe onely What then syr Papiste tagge and ragge all the reprobate of al times is this your interpretation But Thomas I pray you giue vs leaue to beleeue the interpretation of S. Paule before you who expoundeth it cleane contrary to you Romanes 15. ver 20. Yea I enforced my selfe to preach the Gospel not where Christe was named least I should haue built on an other mans foundation But as it is written To whome he was not spoken of they shal see and they that hearde not shall vnderstande Loe Thomas Saint Paule expoundeth this text of them which had seene Christe and knowen the Gospel first by his preaching and not of such as the Messias hath not bene preached to Therefore be no more vnfaithfull but beleeue the Catholike Church though it can not be seene Yet will he not leaue the matter so for Esay prophecyeth That the Lorde would be a perpetuall light and glory of his Church That the sunne of the Churche shal not goe downe any more nor the moone vade because the Lord shal be her euerlasting light Nations shal walk in their light and kings in the brightnesse of her arising Verily Thomas though our bodily eyes can not see this yet doe wee moste constantly beleeue that it is fulfilled in the Churche as it was promised But that the externall brightnesse of the Church is ☜ not promised to bee in all ages alike wee may clearely see by this that he saith Kinges shal walke in the brightnesse of thy rising vppe For euerye age of the Churche hath not had kinges to walke in the brightnesse of her light Let Thomas which will not beleeue the continuance of our Churche except it be so shewed that hee may
Babylon before the time of Donus the Pope which was almoste seuentie yeres after that Maister Stapleton misnameth Martianus in steede of Mauritius I will impute it to no ignorance although if such a faulte escape any of vs we are by and by cried out vpon to be ignorant in all antiquity c. Thus haue I aunswered Maister Stapletons demaunde concerning the principall foundation and rocke of Papistrie although no necessitie suche as hee supposeth doeth moue mee For albeit the precise time of the entring of any heresie can not be named yet it followeth not that the same heresie is a trueth therefore The second demaunde is when and by whome Luther was called when he begunne to preache the Gospell I aunswere if calling of the Popishe Churche be lawfull as the Papistes will not denye Luther had suche ordinary calling as the Churche where he liued did allowe for he was called to be a publike teacher before the Popes pardoner came into Saxony against whose moste impudent blasphemies and shamelesse errours he first inueyghed in his publike sermons Wherefore concerning his vocation the mouthes of Papistes ought to be stopped But Stapleton will not be so satisfied for he sayeth that the Popish Churche would neuer call him to preache against her selfe that is not materiall the Popishe Churche gaue him such authority as she had to preache whiche he vsed first to seeke her reformation if she had bene reformable but when he sawe her oppose her selfe against the manifest trueth he had iust cause to departe from her vnto the Catholike Churche of CHRISTE It sufficeth not Stapleton that hee learned by the Scriptures that the Churche erred bycause all heretikes abuse the Scriptures as thoughe there were no certainty of trueth to be founde in the Scriptures which blasphemie derogateth all authoritie from the holy Scriptures inspired of GOD whiche the Apostle sayeth to bee able to reprooue all errours that the man of GOD may be perfecte prepared to all good workes 2. Tim. 3. ver 16. Againe where hee affirmeth that he had the interpretation of the Scriptures from heauen Stapleton vrgeth that then he must shewe some miracle as if the ordinary inspiration of Gods spirite without the which no man can vnderstand any of Gods mysteries of necessitie requireth confirmation of miracles But Luther him selfe he sayeth requireth miracles of Muncer whiche boasted of Reuelation and so ought we to doe of Luther No sir Muncer boasted of an extraordinary Reuelation and taught a doctrine directly contrary to the worde of GOD written and therefore the case is nothing lyke After this hee telleth a slaunderous fable out of that runnagate Baldwine of the conference at Poissie that Beza and Martyr could not agree whether their calling was ordinary or extraordinary the conclusion whereof was this that Beza was ordeined of Caluine and Caluine as Beza sayde of none Which how impudent and shamelesse a lye it is that Beza should reprote of Caluine it is manifest to all men that knowe the storie of that Churche and citie of Geneua that Caluine was called and ordeyned by the Churche there when he was altogether vnwilling to remaine in that Citie but in a manner compelled by the earnest obtestation of Farellus Cal. in Praefa in Psalm Beza in vita Caluini And yet more monstruous is that lye that Beza should grant the rebellion that followed to be a signe of his vocation when the worlde knoweth that the beginning of these ciuill warres came altogether from the Papistes the Duke of Guise giuing the occasion by the Diuelishe slaughter and buchery of Vassie But to the principall matter in question that Luther and some other hauing an extraordinary calling from God to teach and reforme the Church need not to conâ—irme their calling by miracles when they teach nothing but that is confirmed by manifest authoritie of holy Scriptures in the consciences of all men that wilfully oppose not themselues against the trueth either y â— they will not knowe it or that they will not obey it It is euident by so many prophets as God stirred vp in the olde time which had no extraordinary calling of the Church being not of the tribe of Leui yet being only interpreters of the lawe needed no signes or miracle to confirme their calling Our Sauiour Christ himselfe confirmeth the extraordinary calling of the Scribes and Pharisees when he willeth them to be heard sitting in Moses chaire of which yet a great number and almost all were no Leuites nor Priestes therefore had no ordinary calling Yet Gregory himselfe in the history of Bede at the first planting of the particular Church in Englande alloweth extraordinary ordeyning of Bishops Lib. 1. Cap. 27. Wherefore if Luthers calling were altogether extraordinary as Papistes can not say except they deny the calling of their owne Churche he is not bound to approue his calling by miracles when his doctrine and all things in which hee departeth from the Church of Rome is proued true and agreeable to the word of God The third demaunde is that we must shewe a succession from the Apostles as the Scripture witnesseth the Churche to haue and the auncient fathers exacted of Heretikes The Scripture requireth no succession of names persons or places but of faith and doctrine and that wee prooue when we approue our faith and doctrine by the doctrine of the Apostles Neither had the fathers any other meaning in calling vpon newe vpstart heresies for their succession but of a succession of doctrine as well as of persons Which is manifest by Tertullian De praescript Ita per successiones c. So comming downe by successions from the beginning that their first bishop haue for his authors and antecessours one of the Apostles or Apostolike men but yet such a one as hath continued with the Apostles These wordes of Tertullian are manifest that succession of Bishoppes euen to the Apostles helpeth not excepte there be a continuance in the doctrine of the Apostles whiche when the Papistes can shewe we will gladly yeld vnto them In the meane time it is not the continual succession of persons in any place which teach contrary to their antecessours which haue taught in that place that can carry away the credite of the whole doctrine and religion of Christe CAP. II. An Introduction to the proofes which followe in the seconde part of this fortresse Repeating what he fantasieth he hath fortified before which howe weake it is I haue sufficiently discouered in this Chapter hee promiseth first to declare by diuerse sure and necessary tokens whiche protestantes doe lacke that the faith then planted was a right faith which in many principall pointes we doe not denye but that it was a right faith Secondly repeating the difference in doctrine gouernement ceremonies course and consequence of both the religions he will prooue all that they had differring from vs partly by Scripture and partly by the faith of the first sixe hundreth yeares To which I replye
a sacrifice but of thanks giuing as the same Augustine writeth De fide ad Pet. Cap. 19 Cont. aduers. leg Proph. lib. 1. Cap. 20. Wherefore his Popish bragg notwithstanding here is neuer an ancient father within the 600. yeares that acknowledgeth the propitiatorie sacrifice of the Masse The eight difference is intercession of saints which Protestants abhorre There is no man denyeth but that this errour preuailed within the time of the first 600. yeares and namely in the later 300. years For in the first 300. there is nothing to be found whereby it may be gathered Epiphanius accompteth inuocation of Angels an heresie of the Caiani Tom. 3. H. 38. And although some shewe of inuocation of saints in the later time may be excused by rethorical exornation as M. Grindall truely sayd some prayers for the dead as y t of Ambrose for Theodosius whome both he calleth a perfect seruant of god yet prayth fos his rest which agreeth not with popish prayers for them in Purgatory yet it is confessed y t this was one of y â— spots of that time which being not proued by scripture can be nothing else but a superstition of men What said I can it not be proued by scripture beholde the learned clerke M. Stapl. proueth it out of S. Peter Ep. 2. Ca. 1. I thinke it right as long as I am in this tabernacle to stirre you vp and admonish you being certeine that I shall shortly leaue this tabernacle according as our Lord Iesus Christ hath signified vnto me But I will endeuour also to haue you often after my death that you may remember these things Here is a strange kind of translation of these wordes of his owne Latine texte Dabo autem operam frequenter habere vos post obituÌ„ meuÌ„ vt horum memoriam faciatis But I will endeuour also y t you may haue after my departure whereby to make remembrance of these things For I wil neither trouble him with the Greeke text which perhaps he regardeth not nor with Erasmus translation which are without all ambiguitie But I apeale to GraÌ„marians whether habere vos in this place may be reasonably construed to haue you or else be resolued by vt habeatis vos that you may haue His collection is more monstrous then his construction for thus he addeth immediatly after his translation I aske here How will S. Petter after his death endeuour and procure that the people may remember his sayings They will not I dare say say that he will come in a vision or by reuelation vnto them What remaineth then but that he will further them with his good prayers And so doe the auncient Greeke Scholies expound this place And I aske here Howe prooue you that S. Peter after his death will endeuor procure for them O shamelesse corruption S. Peter saith that bicause he hath not long to liue he will not only put them in remembrance liuing but also leaue his Epistle that it may be a perpetuall admonition of them euen after he is deade But the auncient Greeke Scholies as he saith doe so expound it Why are not those Scholies set downe and their antiquitie shewed to be within the compasse of the first sixe hundreth yeares In deede Occumenius which liued about fiue hundreth yeres last past reporteth that some did wrest that text vnto such a sense but they which did simplie handle y â— words of S. Peter did expound it as I haue done before The 9. difference is commemoration of Saintes at Masse time If you meane commemoration onely as I haue shewed before we make it in our Communion and therefore this is no difference but a lye of Master Stapleton for we say Therefore with Angels and Archangels and all the holy companie of heauen we laude and magnifie c. Likewise in the Collectes mention is made of the Apostles whose memorie our Church doth keepe In deede we vse no inuocation of Saints which was vsed within the latter 300. yeares but not to be proued in the first 300 yeares Neither do we thinke the honour of Saintes to be a dishonour to God but such honour as robbeth God of his glorie which he will not communicate with any creature But Augustine sheweth the memorie of Martyrs to be kept of the Christian people Ad excitandam imitationem vt merius eorum consocietur atque orationibus adiâ—uetur To stirre vp imitation and that they may be ioyned in fellowship of their merites and helped with their praiers The fellowship of their merites he meaneth to be made like them in good workes For he acknowledged no desert of our good workes but onely the mercy of God It is pitie that Iulian the Apostata had so great occasion to charge the Christians with superstition of sepulchres whereof they had no ground in the Scriptures Although Cyrillus defendeth no superstition but only a reuerent estimation of the tombes of the Martyrs for their vertues sake after the example of the heathen Againe he saith that the reliques of the dead were not seene bare and negligently cast vpon the earth but well laide vp and hidden in the bosome of their mother in the deapth of the earth wherein they differred not a little from the vsage of Papistes about their reliques Cyrill Contr. Iulian lib. 10. The pride of Eustachius in contemning the publike Churches ministring in corners we condemne with the Councel of Gangra Concerning the reading of the passions of Martyrs in the Church which he cauilleth that Master Iewell left out in his replie to Doctor Harding out of the seuen and fourtie Canon of the Councel of Carthage 3. Bartholmewe Garizon confesseth that it is an addition and without all such addition the same that M. Iewell requireth that nothing be read in the Church but the canonicall bookes as the 59. Canon of the Councel of Laodicea The 10. difference is of confession and penance in which he maketh two kinds open confession priuate for the open confession vsed in the primitiue Church he bringeth many proofes out of Actes 19. Augustine Tertullian Cyprian the councel of Nice Which need not for we graunt that it was vsed we our selues according to such discipline as our Church of England hath doe vse it that publique and notorious offenders make publique confession of their faultes for satisfaction of the congregation But when this publique confession was abused he saith that this practise of the Church and the counsel of S. Iames willing Christians to confesse one before an other was restrained to the auricular confessioÌ„ of y â— priest only But neither he sheweth when nor by what authoritie the counsel of y â— the Apostle and practise of the Church was thus altered He citeth an Epistle of Innocentius ad Decentium cap. 7. to proue That particular confession was not first instituted in the Councel of Latarane as Caluine babbleth but that if a man were diseased he should not tarrie for the time
to the Bishop toward his hospitality the other to the Cleargie the third to the poore the fourth to the reparation of the Churches So that there is no rule for the Cleargie of other Bishops y t were no Monkes but that they might marrie if they could not liue chaste as wel within holy orders as without so was the practise of the Churche of England more then 400. yeares after vntil the decree of Lanfrancus Anno 1076. who yet was more fauourable to them that had wiues then Stapleton which would haue them put away Decretū est vt nullus Canonicus vxorē habeat Sacerdotū verò in Castellis vel in vicis habitantium habentes vxores non cogantur ut dimittant non habentes interdicantur ut habeant Et deinceps caueant Episcopi vt sacerdotes vel diacones non praesumant ordinare nisi prius profiteantur vt vxores non habeant It is decreed y t no Canon may haue a wife But of Priestes dwelling in townes and villages suche as haue wiues let them not be compelled to put them away But such as haue not let them be forbidden to haue And from hencefoorth let Bishops take heede that they presume not to ordeine priestes or deacons excepte they doe first professe to haue no wiues This decree prooueth that before this time not onely married men were ordeined priests but also that priestes after they were ordeined did take wiues The same is prooued by the woordes of the Epistle of Gerardus which was afterward Archb. of Yorke vnto Anselm Archb. of Canterbury Cum ad ordines aliquos inuito dura ceruice renituntur ne in ordinando castitatē profiteantur When I call any to orders they resist with a stiffe necke that in taking order they doe not professe chastitie But nowe when this iolye fortifier should proue the single life of all the Cleargie in the first sixe hundreth yeares he can bring nothing but certaine decrees that such as were promoted to priesthoode vnmarried should not after marrie yet he confesseth that there were many married men taken vnto the order of priesthoode but seldome he saith in the Latine Church Yet let vs see his authorities first Augustine lib. 2. cap. vlt. de adulter in coniugis sayth that they were wont to bring example of the continencye of Clearkes to perswade men to absteine from adulterous marriages Solemus eis proponere etiam continentiam clericorum qui plerumque ad eandem sarcinam subcundam capiuntur inviti eamque susceptam vsque ad debitum finem Domino iuuante producunt We are wont to set before them the continencie of Clearkes which are oftentimes taken against their willes to beare the same burthen when they haue taken it vppon them doe bring it to the due end the Lord assisting them Of this he gathereth that the Cleargie in Saint Augustines dayes refrained from wiues all the dayes of their life which as it is true of some so it is vtterly false of all Againe the compulsion which he speaketh of was not vnto continencie but vnto the ministerie and in the ministery not of necessitie of greater estimation As the words immediately following do declare Dicimus ergo eis quid si vos ad hoc subeundum populorum violentia caperemini nonne susceptum castè custodiretis officium repentè conuersi ad impetrandas vires a Domino de quibus nunquam anteà cogitastis Sed illos inquiunt honor consolatur Respondemu◠vobis aempliùs limor moderetur Si enim hoc multi Dei ministri repentè atque inopinatè impositum susceperunt sperantes se illustriùs in Christi haereditate fulgere quanto magia vos adulteria cauendo vivere debetis metuentes non in regno Dei minus lucere sed in Gehennae ignibus ardere We say therefore vnto them What if you also were taken by the violence of the people to beare the same Would you not keepe chastely the office taken vpon you being sodenly turned to obtaine of the Lorde suche strength as before you neuer thought of But the honour say they doth comfort them We answere And feare should more restraine you For if many ministers of God haue taken vpon them this thing beeing layde vpon them sodenly and vnlooked for hoping that they shal shine more notably in the inheritaunce of Christ howe much more ought you to liue so as you beware of adulterie fearing not to shine lesse in the kingdome of God but to burne in the fiers of hell Next he citeth a Canon ascribed to the Apostles out of Iustinian confirmed in the sixt generall councell of Constantinople in Trullo Ex coniugatis c. Of suche as come to the cleargie vnmarried and after wil marrie we permit that onely to the readers and singers Neuerthelesse he confesseth that Zonoras expoundeth this so that if any refuse to liue chaste beeing asked at his orders taken he is permitted first to marrie and then admitted to the ministery And the councell of Constantinople in the same sixt Canon Si quis autem eorum qui in Clerum accedunt velit lege matrimonii mutieri coniungi antequam Hypodiaconus vel Diaconus vel presbyter ordinetur hoc faciat But if any of them whiche come into the Cleargie will be ioyned to a woman by the lawe of matrimony let him doe it before he be ordeyned Subdeacon Deacon or Priest Where is nowe the necessitie of single life in the Cleargie After this he citeth the councell of Ancyra Can. 10. which is cleane contrary to his purpose if he had recited it whole as he only taketh the tayle The Canon is this Diaconi quicunque cùm ordinantur si in ipsa ordinatione protestati sunt dicentes velle se habere vxores nec posse se continere hi postea si ad nuptias venerint maneant in ministerio proptereà quod his Episcopus licentiā dederit Quicunque sanè tacuerunt susceperum manu◠impositionem professi continentiam si postea ad nuptia◠venerint a ministeria cessare debebunt Whoso euer when they are ordeyned Deacons if in the very time of their ordeyning they make protestation and say that they will haue wiues that they can not conteyne if these afterward come to be married let them remaine in the ministery because the Bishop hath giuen them licence But truely whosoeuer hath helde their peace and receiued imposition of handes professing continence if after they marrie ought to ceasse from the ministery This Canon sheweth that it was lawfull for the Cleargie beeing in holy orders to marrie if they professed not continence to which profession none was bound as they are in Poperie Againe if after profession they married they were not deuorced as Papistes vsed in Queene Maries time but commaunded to absteine from the ministerie The last authoritie he citeth is out of the Synode of Neocaesaria presbiter c. A priest if he marrie a wife ought to be deposed from his order It followeth in the same Canon
is a worthie witnesse of such a worshipfull ceremonie In the end of this chapter he inueigheth against a newe tricke which he saith y â— preachers haue to make their audience cry Amen CoÌ„paring it with the applause and clapping of handes vsed in the olde time but misliked of godly fathers Chrysostome and Hierome So that for the preacher to pray to God anâ— to giue God thankes whereto the people aunswereth â—â—en it is counted of Stapleton a newe tricke and yet it is an auncient as S. Paul 1. Cor. 14. vers 16. But to make such a loude lye that Sathan him selfe the father of lyes I suppose for his credites sake would be ashamed to make in his owne person Videlicet that To teares to lamenting or to bewayling of their sinnes no Protestant yet moueth his audience It is an olde trickes of a cankared stomaked Papist CAP. VIII Differences betweene the former faith of Catholikes and the late newes of Protestants concerning the gouernement and rulers of the Church The 30. difference is Synodes of the Cleargie which is a lewd and impudent slaunder for we allowe them and vse them as all the world knoweth but saith he no conclusion is made in them but such as pleaseth the Parleament This is a false lye for although no constitution made in the conuocation hath the force of a lawe except it be confirmed by Parleament yet many constitutions and Canons haue bene made that were neuer confirmed by Parleament The 31. difference is imposition of handes which is a meere slaunder for that cerimonie is vsed of vs in ordeining of Ministers likewise where he saith that wheÌ„ all the Popish Bishops were deposed there was none to lay handes on the Bishops that should be newely consecrated it is vtterly false For there was one of the Popish Bishops that continued in his place there were also diuers that were consecrated Bishops in King Edwardes time and although there had bene but one in that time of reformation it had been sufficient by his owne Gregories resolution Bed lib. 1. cap. 27. An other example is Lib. 3. cap. 28. of Ceadda Archbishop of Yorke consecrated by Wini Bishop of the West Saxons assisted by two Bryton Bishops that were not subiect to the see of Rome Bicause at that time there was neuer a Bishop of the Romish faction in England but this Wini who was also a Simoniake and bought the Bishoprike of London for money I speake not this as though in planting of the Church where it hath bene long time exiled an extraordinarie forme of ordaining were not sufficient but to shewe that the Papistes doe picke quarels contrarie to their owne pretended recordes of antiquitie and Catholike religion Where he inueigheth against the vnsufficiencie of a number of our Ministers which are come out of the shop into the Cleargie without giftes sufficient for that calling as I can not excuse them nor their ordeiners so I dare be bolde to affirme they are no worse either in knowledge or conuersation then the huge rable of hedge Priestes of Poperie The 32. difference that such Bishops as were created by the Archbishops of Canterburie and Yorke were created by the appointment of the Pope This is a shamelesse lye for which he can bring no colour either out of the first sixe hundreth yeares or out of Bedes historie Where he saith If it can be shewed by any historie that at any time by the meere temporall authoritie euer any Catholike Bishops were created he dâ—re yelde and graunt that ours are lawfull Bishops For aunswere that Catholike Bishops of olde by as meere temporall authoritie were created as any are created among vs I referre him to Bede lib. 3. cap. 7. 29. lib. 4. cap. 23. of Agilbert and Wini by authoritie of Sonwalch Wighard nominated by authoritie of Oswine and Egbert Ostfor consecrated at the commaundement of king Edilred beside Wini made Bishop of London for money by Wulfher king of Mercia which authoritie he could not haue abused except it had bene in him lawfully to vse The 33. difference is that Princes had not the supreme gouernement in ecclesiastical causes For proofe whereof he alledgeth Gregorie Nazianzen and Saint Ambrose both which speake not of chiefe authoritie but of knowledge of spirituall matters which is not to be sought ordinarily in Princes but in the Cleargie Secondly he citeth Caluine and Illyricus which do write against such ciuill Magistrates as thinke by their supremacie they haue absolute authoritie to decree what they wil in y e Church wheras we in England neuer attribute so much to the Princes authoritie but that we alwayes acknowledge it to be subiect to God and his word The Papistes right well vnderstand this distinction but it pleaseth them to vse this ambiguitie of supreme authoritie to abuse the ignorance of the simple The 34. difference is that the Bishops and godly men in matters of doubt counselled with the Pope of Rome so did the Pope of Rome with them while there was any modestie in him so did Pope Sergius aske counsel of poore Beda Math. West Nay but Saint Hierome so well learned consulted with Pope Damasus which entred his See with the slaughter of sixtie persons I might aunswere that Damasus also asked counsell of Saint Hierome So that in him which is consulted there is rather opinion of knowledge then of authoritie But Hierome confesseth that he will not separate him selfe from the Church of Rome c. Ep. ad Dam. 2. So long as the Church of Rome was the Church of Christ there was great cause he should ioyne with it But nowe is it ceased to be the spouse of Christ and is become an adulteresse as the prophete saith of Ierusalem yea it is become Babylon the mother of all abhominations and therefore that heauenly voice commaundeth all Christians to depart out of her But concerning the Popes authoritie I haue aunswered at large to D. Sanders rocke of the Popish Church The 35. difference but I knowe not howe it differeth is the Popes authoritie abolished by whom Christianitie was first in this land receiued It is wel known that there was Christianitie before Gregorie sent Augustine not of Popelike authoritie but of godly zeale as it seemeth to winne the English nation to Christe After followeth a large complaint for abolishing the Popes authoritie a Canon inuectiue against discentions among vs and slight fortification of the Popes authoritie for vnities sake out of Hierome Cont. Iouinian Cyprian de simpl prael aunswered at large in the discouerie of D. Sanders Rocke The 36. difference Augustine came first in presence of the king with a crosse of siluer and an image of Christ painted in a table The Protestants beganne with taking away the crosse and altering the Letanie But this part is left vnfortified except it be with a marginall note that Chrysostome vsed in Letanies crosses of siluer and burning tapers In deede I reade Chrysostome had certaine candlestickes or cressets
onely begotten sonne of God and not he in deede Againe he sayeth Cùm fecisset quasi flagellum when he had made as it were a scourge master Vsher will conster it so that was not a scourge in deede because he sayeth as it were a scourge But Martiall will still vrge the fact of Paula in worshipping the crosse of Christ vntill it be shewed out of Epiphanius by better euidence then yet is shewed that he woulde haue no crosse no crucifixe nor image in the Church A mā would thinke this were sufficient euidence when hee sayeth Cùm ergo hoc vidissem in ecclesia Christi contra authoritatem scripturarum hominis pendere imaginem c. Wherefore when I sawe this that in the Church of Christe did hang an image of a man contrary to the authoritie of the scriptures I rent it c. Further euidence out of Epiphanius you may see in the place before cited Martiall would haue vs make a Kalender of Christian men that refused to blesse them selues with the crosse which were 〈◊〉 infinite matter seeing from the Apostles vnto the Valentinian heretikes it is not read that any such estimation was of the crosse y t it should be any blessing or confirmation Master Calfhils rule that we must liue not after examples but after lawes meaning not followe what soeuer hath beene done by good men but whatsoeuer was well done according to the lawe of God Martiall reiecteth vpō vaine foolish and friuolous reasons as that some examples are to be followed that the lawe serueth not for a iust man that custome must be followed where lawe faileth c. Beside that he slaundereth Luther as one that would haue all lawes and orders of Princes put awaye Againe whereas M. Calfhill sheweth that the fathers taught other things more oft more earnestly then the vse of the crosse As that it was a wickednesse to fast on Sonday or to pray on our knees beside the oblations on birthdayes milke and hony with the communion giuen to infants c. Martiall answereth these are abrogated by the church this is not But seing none of them hath ben in worse abuse then this custome of crossing this ought to be abrogated of euery church as well as those But whereas Martiall compareth the doctrine of S. Paul 1. Cor. 11. for couering or vncouering of men womens heads and the decree of y e Apostles for bloud and strangled Act. 15. with those abrogated customes he doth verye lewdly for beside y t the authoritie of y e one is certeine the other vncerteine of some forged the doctrine of S. Paul as he there deliuereth it is perpetuall the decree of the Apostles was neuer ment of them but to be temporall for auoiding offence of the Iewes As touching the credit of the olde writers who had all their errors we like well y e councell of Vincentius Lyrinensis y t we should stil haue recourse for triall to y e most ancient in which we must needes accompt y e writings of the Apostles both of moste antiquitie and of greatest authoritie Wherefore seeing the manner of blessing with the crosse is not found either in the writings of the Apostles or in the most auncient fathers Iustinus Irenaeus Clemens Alexandrinus by Vincentius councel we may iustly accompt it for a corrupt custome crept into the church either by aemulation of heretikes or in contention against the Paganes But Martiall slaundereth vs and the Apollogie of the church of England that the chiefe cause of our seperation from the Church of Rome was the euill life of the gouernours thereof and vainly spendeth time to proue out of Ciprian Augustine and Caluine that for that cause wee ought not to separate our selues whereas we are departed out of Babylon not so much for the abhominable life thereof as for the corrupt false doctrine taught therein by which it is shewed to be y e Synagogue of sathan not the church of Christ. And here Martiall hudleth vp a nomber of quotations for the authoritie of the Pope and of the church of Rome which seeing they haue beene all often times answered and by mee also in aunswere to D. Saunders rocke it were folly here to stand vpon thē But he will not be counted a falsifier of Tertullian when of diuerse copyes and impressions he wilfully chooseth the worst that he might wring it to his purpose although the matter be not worth the strife about it For Tertullians iudgement of tradition without scripture in that place is corrupt for Martiall him selfe confesseth that a tradition vnwritten should be reasonable and agreable to the scriptures and so he saith the tradition of blessing with y e crosse is because the Apostles by the holy ghoste deliuered it But who shall assure vs thereof Tertullian Basil are not sufficient warrant for so worthie a matter seeing S. Paul leaueth it out of the vniuersall armour of God But where M. Calfhill distinguisheth traditions into some necessary as necessarily inferred of the scripture some contrary to the worde and some indifferent Martial like an impudent Asse calleth on him to shewe in what scripture doctor or councell he findeth this distinction of traditions As though a man might not make a true distinction in disputation but the same must be founde in so many wordes in scripture doctor or councell when he him selfe cannot deny but y e distinction is true euery part to be founde in y e scriptures doctors councels But the examples please him not for the couering of women and their silence in the church are taught in expresse words of scripture and therfore are not necessarily inferred of scripture Therefore there is one lye quod Martiall Who would think such a block worthie of answere which thinketh a trueth may not be inferred of the expresse words of scripture when of nothing it can be better in ferred Againe he calleth it another lye y t S. Paul proueth his tradition by y e scripture for he bringeth no text nor sentence of scripture to proue y t women shuld be couered in the church But Martiall doth not onely belye M. Calfhill but also slaunder S. Paul seeing he alledgeth out of Genesis both y t the man is the image glory of God y t the woman was made for man The examples of the second sort as Latine seruice worshipping of images c. Martiall will not allowe but the scripture is plaine to them that haue eyes and be not like the images whome they worship Againe he liketh not that there should be any limitation in obseruing traditions of the church in things indifferent as if cases of necessitie of offence might not make a limitation without contempt of the churches authoritie But he will learne in which kinde of traditions we place the signing with y e crosse y e rest named by Basil. I aunswere y t marking with the crosse in some respect as it was first vsed of y e old
if that be too farre of let him worship Iudas lippes that kissed him if he can come by them Concerning the person of Helena I would wish nothing to be spoken of her but to her honour except in case where her honour should be an hinderance of the honor of Christ. Martial to iustifie her in al things raileth vpon M. Calfhil for charging her with superstition as though he had bene the first y t had so written of her when it is reported of her that she was vsque ad superstitionem pia deuout euen to superstition And yet her superstition appeareth not so great in any thing as in this supposed inuention of the crosse The varietie in time that is in the witnesses of the inuention of the crosse the blasphemous beast is not ashamed to compare with the apparence of varietie which is in the Euangelistes where in deede there is none wheras this discord can not be reconciled Yet will he not haue the tale discredited for the discorde in time as though there were none other discorde The manifest contradiction that is betweene Ruffinus saying Titulus non satis evidentâ—r dominici prodebaâ— signa patibuli The title did not shewe euidently the signe of our Lordes gibbet And Ambrose saying Titulo crux salutaris patuit by the title the healthfull crosse was manifestly knowen This contradiction I say he denyeth to bee any affirming that a simple Logitian would proue it to be none Thinking that sâ—tis euidenter euidently inough would excuse the matter as though we knewe not what patet doeth signifie as well as Maister vsher of Winchester That a shippe would not carrie the peeces of the crosse that are shewed in so many places he counteth it an impudent lye of Caluine whome he rayleth vpon like a ruffian and slaundereth like a diuel Yet Erasmus affirmeth the same in his Peregrinat relig erg And he that will beleeue neither of them both let him consider beside so many whole crosses as are shewed in steede of that one and of great boardes y t are kept in many places as part of it so many thousand churches Abbeys as either now shew or haue shewed chips pieces of it he shall not think their report to be in credible The talk of the nayles which were but three at y e first al bestowed at the time of y e inuention yet are now multiplyed to 13. or 14. which bewrayeth an horrible impudencie in the Popish idolaters Martiall refuseth as impertinent yet will he not confesse y e forgerie which is a token of a wicked diuelish conscience Where M. Calfhill sayeth that miracles were not done by the crosse to establish a worshipping or hauing of it Martiall requireth proofe by scriptures Councels or Doctors I reason thus a paribus out of the scripture myracles were done by oyle shadowe other things not to establish a worshipping or hauing of them the like reason is of myracles done by the crosse Beside that y â— scripture is plentiful in challenging all honour worship to the author not to the meanes or instruments Peter and Iohn meanes of the healing of the lame man refused all honour and worship in respect of his healing Act. 3. vers 12. yet were they other manner of meanes then y e crosse euer was in doing of myracles That M. Calfhill sayeth myracles teach vs not to do the like but to beleeue the like Martiall sayeth they teach vs to do the like if we may and he proueth it by him that teacheth that almes couereth sinne who thereby teacheth to do almes c. Thus the wise man compareth miracles men together facts doctrin act possibilitie euen as right as a rammes horne But how shal we come by this power to worke miracles by the signe of y e crosse for to assay without assurance of Gods power is to tempt God Therefore wee may no more crosse vs against diuels because God hath sometime chased theÌ„ away by y â— signe then wee may annoynt blind mens eyes with clay to proue if they will see after it because Christ wrought a myracle by y â— meane which as Martial saith teacheth vs to do the like if we may What estimatioÌ„ Paulinus a superstitious man had in his piece of the crosse which was perhaps a piece of another tree then euer came in Iewry Wee haue not to followe him in his follye That myracles wrought of holy men by the signe of the crosse c. is not a sufficient reason to proue that y e figne of the crosse should be had kept set vp and honoured I haue alreadie proued out of the scripture by y e like or equall yet it is against reason when we deny your arguments whose consequence you ought to proue y â— we should be driueÌ„ to proue that they follow not Where M. Calfhill sayeth y â— myracles onely ought not or may not coÌ„mend a thing you pick quarels to him without cause obiecting the miracles of Christ who tooke witnesse not only of his miracles but also of y e holy scriptures When you haue vrged the miracle done by y e signe of y e crosse out of Epiphanius as much as you can yet proueth it not y e honouring and setting vp of y e signe of y e crosse in these days as M. Calfhill telleth you seing y â— we liue not among Turkes or Sarazens y â— we need to haue any such signe whereby we might be knowen to be worshippers of Christ. But you would faine learne what if a Portingal or one of y e new conuerted IlaÌ„ds of India coÌ„ming by chance into England of which he neuer heard before seing neither images nor crosses in church nor streate how he should knowe in whome wee beleeue And I would learne of you what skilleth it if such a man as neuer came here nor euer by any likelyhood shall come hither yet supposed to be driuen on a boarde out of India into Englande what skilleth it I say if he know not in whom we beleue and so depart as wise as he came What remedy but we must haue al places filled with images crosses for such a man to knowe what we holde of who shalbe neuer the better thereby nor the worse if he know not But you think that happily strangers of Greece CoÌ„stantinople Iewry India may come to our coastes and therfore wee ought to haue the signe of the crosse in churches chapels high wayes to signifie of whome we hold We haue not many such strangers but when they arryue we haue bookes of the holy scripture in Greeke Hebrue Chaldee Syrian Arabike Sclauonian tongues in which they may be instructed that are desirous to vnderstand what religion we professe The Lorde God thought it sufficient to haue his lawe written vppon great stones at the entrance into the holy land to let all strangers knowe both whome after what manner the people of Israell did honour and