Therfore they are not true Pastors and Teachers Answere Ther are 4. Termes in this Syllogisme The grosse Sophisterye wherof may appeare by the Explanation therof in others wordes True Pastors Teachers may not viz. by Gods lawe take vpon them Cyvill offices The Ministers of England may viz. by Mans lawe take vpon them Cyvill offices Therfore they are not true Pastors and Teachers This is the effect of his Argument who is so blind but hee may see the fallacie therof And it is as though we should reason in the like manner against their owne Ministery thus True Pastors Teachers may not bee Drunckards Anabaptists Familists The Ministers of the Seperation at Amsterdam may be Drunckards Anabaptists Familists Therfore they are not true Pastors and Teachers This Assumption is as true as the former for the same kinde of Authoritie that permits our Ministers to bee Cyvill Magistrats doth permit them to bee Drunckards c. The goverment vnder which they liue permitteth the one to more then our state doeth the other But I answer more particulerly 1. That by the same lawe that our Ministers may take vpon them Cyvill Magistracie Any true Pastors and Teachers may take vpon them the same Authority and by the same lawe that true Pastors and Teachers may not take Cyvill Authoritye vpon them our Ministers may not take the same vpon them 2. All our Ministers may not noe by the lawes of our State take vpon them Cyvill Authority But such only as are called specially therto by the fauours grace of the Cyvill Magistrate not as they are Prelats Priests or Deacons or by vertue of those functions but in respect of other qualifications Nether are the forced by any law to adjoyne any such Authoritie to their Ministery but permitted only But what if by the lawes of men Ministers might be Murtherers Adulterers Theeus c. should theis lawes chaunge the nature of their Ministery what of their Ministery that denye vnto themselues that lycence would it not rather the more justify their Ministery when in Conscience of Gods law they shall for beare that which flesh and blood and humaine laws would permit vnto them 3. Suppose not onely that it is vnlawfull for any true Pastors and Teachers to bee Cyvill Magistrats but that also by our lawes all our Ministers were forced therunto and that by vertue of their Ministery will it thence follow that for this cause they are not true Pastors and Teachers May not true Pastors and Teachers in their weacknesse ignorance and infirmities the laws of the State requiring the same admitt of some kind of office or Authoritie for bidden them but they must needs ther vpon cease to bee true Pastors Teachers doth the admitting of every vnlawfull thing chaunge the nature of the Ministery and make it either noe Ministery or a Ministery of an other kinde Fr. Iohn The Ministery of Christian Pastors and Teachers The. 5. Arg. standeth by the word and ordinance of Christ so as all Churches vnder Heaven are bound to receaue and submit thervnto But the Prelacie Preesthood and Deaconry of the Ghurch of England staundeth only by the Authoritie and Law of man soe as other Churches els wher nether are nor neede to bee subjecte thervnto which euen themselues of all sorts haue acknowledged for which see Whitgifts defence in the Preface The Answer to the Abstraucte pag. 58. The Admonition to the Parlement The defence of the Godly Ministers the demonstration Therfore it is not the Ministery of Christian Pastors and Teachers Answere I deny the Assumption The Ministery of our Church Assemblies of England whether of Prelates Priests or Deacons or by what other names soeuer they be called for the substance therof standeth by the word and ordinance of Christ and not onely by the Authority and law of man And all other true Churches are and ought to be subject to the same kinde of Ministery and to noe other that shall in any Essentiall point of Ministery differ from ours If any Perticuler Parsons amongst vs haue bene soe vnaduised to graunt the Assumption let them answer for themselues Hee hath noe more reason to binde vs to their opinions then wee to binde him vnto whatsoeuer his predecessours Browne Barrowe and Greenwood haue held before him Concerning some of the particulers Doctor Whitgifts words are theis The substance and nature of Gouerment must indeed by taken out of the word of God and consisteth in theis parts That the word be truely taught the Sacraments rightly administred virtue furthered vice repressed and the Church kept in quietnesse and order The offices of the Church wherby this Gouerment is wrought bee not namely and particulerly expressed in the Scripture but in some points left to the discretion and libertie of the Church to be disposed according to the State of times Places and persons The Author of the Answer to the Abstract in the place aledged saith That it cannot be proued that any set and exacte particuler forme of discipline is recomended vnto vs in the word of God Now are either of theis to affirme That the Ministery of our Church Assemblies staundeth only by the lawes and Authoritie of Man Hath M. Iohnson any shame left in his face that thus shamefully abuseth the names of learned and reuerent men soe directly contrary to their words and meaning Is ther not cause to suspect that the other Authors are in like manner abused and that for the better hideing of his fraude hee forbeareth to quote any particuler places Being therfore convinced of depravation in the places particularly quoted wee may presume that if the other places had bene more pertinent hee would haue giuen vs some particuler directions also for the finding of them And the rather for that hee cannot be ignorant that those whom specially hee fighteth against in theis Argumēts doe rely vpon the judgement of the Authours following more then of the former Fr. Iohn The offices of Pastors The 6. Arg. and Teachers which Christ hath appointed are such as they which haue them must bee members of a true visible Church and bound to one perticuler Congregation for the Ministery and Gouerment therof But the Offices of the Prelats Priests and Deacons of the Church of Englande are such as they which haue them need not bee neither in their State can bee members of a true visible Church but of a fals neither are bound to one perticuler Congregation for the Ministery and Gouerment therof but the Prelates are our whoele Prouinces and Diocesses other inferior Priests may haue in that State pluralitie of benefices and Ecclesiall Cures c. which none can deny Therfore they are not the Pastors Teachers that Christ hath appointed Answere Though some parts of the Proposition bee disputable Yet because other besids the Seperation doe hould the whol for truth I will leaue it in medio The Assumption is falce especially if it bee vnderstoode as it ought to bee of the
and roote out of their dominions is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie Such is their Ministery Therefore it is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy The Assumption is proued in the former reason and in other Treatises and by some of themselues in their Suites to Parlament and if the Prelats and their conforming cleargy deny it they are by their owne Canons excōmunicated ipso facto Answere This sixt Argument is borrowed from the first Reason wher it is brought to proue that our Ministery is not the Ministery of Pastors and Teachers as here it is brought againe to proue that it is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy Thus then hee reasoneth the King may and ought to suppresse this Ministery Therfore it is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy But how doth hee proue That the King ought to suppresse this Ministery Hee refers vs for the proofe therof especially to the former Reason how doth hee proue it ther Thus. It is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie Therfore the king ought to suppresse it Is not this learned stuffe Concerning his other Treatises which hee so often sends vs vnto as if they were in every streete and market place of the lande wee haue not so much idle time to seeke after them and wee presume wee shall find noe better stuffe in them then in this If any amongst vs haue put vp any such suit to the Parlament for the Abollishing of our Ministery in generall let them answer for themselues But the Prelats may well laugh at his simplicity and seelinesse of wit that thinks to fright them with such a bug-beare as this in making them beleeue that they are by their owne Canons excommunicated ipso facto if they deny that the King may and ought to abolish our Ministery Fr. Iohn If it bee such as shall bee abolished by the Lord throughout the power and light of his Gospell The 7. Arg. then is it the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie The first is true Therfore the latter is true also Answere The same answer will serue to this Argument that was giuen to the former For the Assumption is fals The light of the Gospell shall more and more confirme establish and perfect it and remoue all the defects and blemishes in it his profe is as ridiculous and sophisticall as is the former for hee proues it by the same question that here it is brought to proue for so in effect proceeds his disputation That which shall bee abolished is Antichristian Our Ministery shall bee abolished Ergo It is Antichristian But how doth hee for our learning proue that our Ministery shall bee abolished very learnedly and profoundly thus That which is Antichristian shall be abolished Our Ministery is Antichristian Therfore it shall be abolished For this is the effect of that idle discourse of 2. or 3. leaues viz. pag. 46 -51 tending to proue That Antichrist and all his offices shall be abolished THE THIRD REASON EXAMINED WHat soever Ministery is such none can heare or haue any spirituall communion with it but in so doing hee shall worship the Image of the beast and receaue his Marke in his forehead or hand That Ministery may none heare or haue any spirituall communion with all But the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England is such as none can heare or haue any spirituall Communion therwith but in so doing hee shall worship the Beasts image and receaue his marke in his forehead or hand Ergo None may heare or haue any Spirituall communion therwith Answere This Reason for the effect and substance therof differeth not from the seconde for what is it by his owne interpretation to worship the beasts image but to subiect himselfe to the Ministery and worship of Antichrists Apostasie and how is it possible for him to proue this but by runing to the former Reasons for their help therin For the profe of the Assumption hee sets vs downe a tedious and impertinent discours of some six leaues of paper teaching what is meant by the beast his Image and by receaving the marke in the forehead or hand The some and effect wherof is this That by Beast wee are to vnderstand the Romaine Dominion and Antichrists hierarchie withall the offices lawes Pag. 51. 63. and authority appertaining thervnto That by worshipping the Beasts Image may bee vnderstoode the yealding of spirituall subiection to that Antichristian kingdome in the lawes offices and Iurisdiction therof That by receaving the marke in the forehead or hand is publiquely to professe and obserue them not being a shamed of the beasts wayes And this doe all they who submitte to the goverm̄et of Prelats Priests Parsons Vicars booke worship c. Not to contende about this interpretation but to suppose it true ther is nothing in substance here brought to confirme the 3. Reason but that which is in the 2. Reason viz. that therfore wee worship the beast in communicating with our Ministery Because it is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie And therfore it needs noe other Answer then what hath bene giuen already Only thus much further That for men so far forth to submit to the Gouerment of such Prelats c. as our lawes doe require is not to yealde spirituall subjection to the Kingdom of Antichriste nor without shame to professe the Beasts wayes For they may not withstanding that bee subject to Christ and his lawes and to fight against the beast Yea though it should be graunted that ther in sundry perticulers they yeald to some things in their vse Antichristian and vnlawfull which the best reformed Churches and Ministers sometimes of ignorance or infirmity may doe and yet remaine the Churches and Ministery of Christ THE FOVRTH REASON EXAMINED NOne may heare or joine in any Spirituall Communion with that Ministery which deriveth not their power and function of Ministery from Christ which is the head for the edification of his Church which is his body Such is the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England Therfore none may heare or joyne in Spirituall Communion therwith Answere This reason is the same with the first for it is all one To be derived from Christ To be set by Christ in his Church The other words which here hee addeth Doth noe more vary the force of the Argument then a new garment put vpon the same witnesse would make him a nue and different witnesse from himselfe In the profe of the Assumption hee daubes 6. pages bringing therin nothing but his ould brokery the substance wherof is as followeth 1. Pag. 64. 70. That our Ministers haue not these offices which Christ hath giuen to his Church for the worke of his Ministery 2. That it is the Ministery of Deacons and Priests made by the Prelats 3. That they were left in England by the Pope and are still in the Kingdome of Antichrist wher they first rose and theefore is devilish and by consequent the more gifts and truth the Ministers bring with them the
same kinde and therfore well may hee passe by this point This is but a peece of his simple thetoricke carelesly to seeme to passe by that which hee cannot proue For how many Errors can hee name or number that hee is able to justify to be taught in the Ministery of our Church Assemblies what one truth of Religion can hee name that is not or hath not bene when just occasion hath bene offred taught by some of our Ministers I am not ignorant that in his treatises against M. A. H. and M. H. I. hee mustreth a whole troup of pretended Errors but suppose them to bee so many destinct Errors how doth hee proue they are taught in our Ministery or that they are required by law to bee taught Ther is indeed a Conformitie and Subscription required to some of them and a Canon that requires that the late Canons bee reade in Churches some times in the yeare as also that the booke of Articles bee read at the first entrance vpon an Ecclesiastical Church with a testification of assent vnto it But is this Ministerially to teach the Errors contained in the said bookes May not a man in the weacknesse of his judgement and in infirmitie at his first entrance into a calling conforme and subscribe vnto some things not so warantable and true and yet not teach them for truths yea may hee not for all that teach doctrin in it selfe directly countrary to those vntruths yea and yet satisfie also the minde of the law which being humaine and therfore not alwaies perfect may commaunde that very truth to bee taught which being thorowly followed will destroy some vntruths which the same law also requires Further it is one thing to reade the Canons to the people therby to declare vnto them what is required at their hands by their Governors another thing to teach and justifie the Errors countained in them and to testifie an assent vnto some Errors is not Ministerially to instruct the people in those Errors 2. Though it bee noe nue thing that the Ministers of Antichrist should in divers things bring the truth with them Yet this is a nue thing and never hard of before That the Ministers of Antichrist should teach the wholl truth of Christ Iesus for the substāce therof That they should oppose directly and zealously against the maine and foundamentall doctrins of Antichrist That they should professe him to bee Antichrist and that man of sinne and to the sheeding of their blood should exercise their Ministery against Antichrist and his kingdome protesting against him and his Service were it not nue straunge that a man should bee counted a true Subject vnto a Prince then when hee doth openly protest against him Counting him a vsurping Tirant and imploying all the wit power and strength hee hath against him such subjects of Antichrist are our Ministers or by the lawes such they ought to bee Could hee bee said to bee a Minister of Christ that yealding to some externall kites and professing some doctrines of Christian faith doth not withstanding directly openly and professedly renounce Christ and his Seruice and professe himselfe to bee an enemie to him and his Kingdome If it hould not in the one it is not both a nue and strang thing that it should hould in the other 3. M. Iohnson out of his knowledge must teach vs how Sathan can be said by teaching the truth to vtter his owne Ministery or worship or how a Sathanicall Ministery can be vttered when in and by the Ministery nothing but the truth of Christ is administred what is the Ministery of Sathan but the Ministery of Error how can the Ministery of Error bee vttered by teaching the Truth or how can a Ministery be said to be vttered by a truth when it is the Ministery it selfe that vttereth the truth Surely noe more then a Marchandize can bee said to bee vttered by selling of wares and were it not a wonder if a man should vtter his bad Marchandice by selling good sound wares Sathan and Antichrist indeed together with some truths seeke to vtter much falshoode which otherwise they knowe would not be receaued And many of our Ministers are content to yeald to some things which they judge not so counvenient if it did otherwise some good to the State to the end they may vtter the truth But that like Antichrist and Sathan our Ministers should propound this vnto themselues to teach some truths to this end that they might therby vtter falshood and lies fals Ministeries worships is a Malitious imputation and can never bee justified Obj. Beza saith Though Antichrist teach the truth which sometimes hee doth to the end hee may more easily seduce to beleeue his lies yet wee are to stoppe our eares against him least vnder his pretence wee bee deceaved by him pag. 76. Ans Well but it is yet to proue That our Ministers are Antichrists and that they teach the truth to any such wicked intent the contrary is manifest when many of them in regard of the times are countent to yealde to some colourable vntruths that they might therby purchase libertie vnto themselues to aduance the truth of Christ They yeald to some things in appearance Antichristian that they might with more libertie fight against Antichrist Obj. Who knoweth not that Antichrist and his Ministers are hipocriticall frends to Christ vnder the name of Christ fighting against him Ans But who knoweth not that our Ministers if they bee such as our lawes require them to bee are sworn enemies to Antichrist and in the name of Christ and vnder some of Antichrists owne Rites doe fight against him and resist him vnto blood And who knoweth not that many of them haue died for Christ at the foot of Antichrist THE SIXT ARGVMENT IF the present Ministery of the Church of Englande bee a strange Ministery then is it not lawfull in the worship of God to heare it or haue any Spirituall communion therwith But such is the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England Therfore it is not lawfull in the worship of God to heare it or haue any Spirituall Communion therwith The Assumption is manifest for a strange Ministery is that which is not by the law ordained and giuen for that worke as themselues here to fore haue published and as is proued in the first Reason Answere This Reason differreth not in substance from divers of the former for what is it to bee a strang Ministery but to be a Ministery that is not set by Christ in his Church which is his 1. Reason But to bee a Ministery which deriveth not the power and function from Christ which is his 4. Reason But to bee a Ministery that worketh vpon mens consciences by virtue of a fals Spirituall calling which is his 5. Reason Might hee not with as greate facility out of this method of reasoning haue brought forth 7000. Reasons as theis seaven But how doth hee proue the Assumption of his reason
by sending vs back againe as you may see to the first Reason So that all the reason of this Reason is borrowed from the 1. Reason and is answered all ready in the Answer therof But before hee passeth to the next reason hee runs out after the wonted fashion into an idle discours nothing at all appertaining to the Argument in hand bringing in some idle observations vpon the Story of Corah Dathan and Abiram also of Naaman falsly Misapplied vnto our Church Assemblies Ministery For hee taking it as graunted or as a thing that could not be denied him That our Ministery is Antichristian that our worship is Idolatry hee makes our Ministers people even the best of them wors then Corah Dathan Abiram and them which were of their conspiracy and our Assemblies and worship as bad as the Temple of Rimmon and the idolatry therin performed And wher hee brings the example of Naaman as brought by some of vs to justifie our joining with our Church Assemblies I persuade my selfe he doth against the knowledge and light of his owne conscience bely vs that ther cannot be one of vs brought forth that ever made this plea we hould it as vnlawful as themselues outwardly but in appearance to joyne with Idolators in their Idolatry wee see noe warrant why for every perticuler Act that in a large sence is Idolatrous adjoined to Gods true worship wee should forbeare our presence at the true worship it selfe Or that our presence for the true worships sake alone should in respect of some point of false worship thervnto a nexed bee as hee speaketh the submitting our bodies to a strang worship Especially when wee are not perticuler Actors in it but onely present behoulding it with greife and suffering it in others for the true worship sake vnto which it is adjoined If this should bee held vnlawfull then can noe man present himself with a good conscience at any publique worship of God whersoever Because except it should be stinted and prescribed which M. Iohnson holds to bee a fals worship hee can haue noe asseurance but that some errors in matter or forme will bee committed yea if hee bee a man of vnderstanding and learning hee may presume in a māner that in the publique worship some error or other in matter or forme greater or lesser will bee committed before which he must present himselfe But what were the Iewish Sinagoges in Christs time free from all parts of fals worship the Scripture witnesseth the contrary Did they when Christ came into them for beare their Assemblies The Scripture confirmes the contrary was Christ presence then as heere he saith our presence is a very bowing downe vnto them was hee also therin an vnconscionable dissembler Did hee therin imbrace the bosome of Strangers breake his couenant goe a whoreing with the inventions of man For such fiere as this hee spits at vs if not why should it bee such a sin in vs who haue not such eyes to pearce into the impiety of mans traditions as our Saviour had THE SEAVENTH Reason EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IF the present Ministery of the Church of Englande bee not from Heaven but of men then is it not lawfull in the worship of God to heare or haue any Spirituall Communion therwith Such is the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande Ergo It is not lawfull in the worship of God to haue any Spirituall communion therwith The Assumption is evident because God hath not appointed the Ministery of the Church Assemblies but man as appeares by their booke or ordination And if they will say the contrary let themshew their callings out of the word of God Answere This Reason is the very same with the 4.5 and 6. and hath noe ground or profe but from them And therfore is Answered also in the Answer of them And this may bee sufficient to shew that our Ministery is from Heaven when so malitious and excercised an Adversary whose whole Religion seemes to lie in opposing to our Ministery can say noe more against it THE SECOND SORT OF REASONS TAKEN AS is pretended forth of our owne Writers EXAMINED THE FIRST ARGVMENT TAKEN from the twelue Arguments EXAMINED Fr. Iohn AL will-worship is Sinne. To heare or communicate with the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande in Church Service in manner and forme prescribed is a will-worship Therfore to heare or communicate with that Ministery is Sinne. Answere This Sillogisme is Sophisticall consisting plainely of foure termes Except hee make his conclusion this Ther fore to heare or communicate with that Ministery in manner and forme prescribed is a Sinne. For the third Argument being wil-worship Al the other terms they being no parts therof must bee in the conclusion If so bee the sillogisme bee true as every Sophoming boy in the vniversitie knoweth And therfore hee must either exclude them out of the Assumption or include them in the conclusion which hee cannot doe it being his intent by theis Arguments to proue it a sinne to communicate therwith not onely in manner or forme prescribed but any other way And therfore hee Sophistically or rather in ignorant and witlesse simplicity concluds a generall from a Speciall thus It is a will-worship to communicate with our Ministery in manner and forme prescribed Therfore it is a sinne to communicate therwith whether in manner or forme prescribed or any other way Wheras a Childe may knowe this That an Action donne in some manner and forme prescribed may bee a will-worship and a sinne which donne otherwise may bee true worship A man may therfore if neede bee graunt both his premises and deny his conclusion Nether will it help him that the Author of the 12. Arguments concluded against the Ceremonies in the same forme of words that hee doth here against the Ministery It being plain by the scope of his wholl disputation That though hee do not expresse those words in manner and forme prescribed in the conclusion That yet hee vnderstandeth them It being not his purpose to dispute absolutely against all vse of them but against the vse of them in that manner and forme that they are prescribed But whatsoever his Conclusion is The Assumption is fals yea though it should bee graunted that in our Ministery ther is some will-worship performed yet let vs see how hee proues the Assumption Fr. Iohn All parts of divine worship and Service imposed onely by the will and pleasure of man vpon the Communicants in divine service and that of necessitie to bee donne is will-worship But to heare and Communicate with the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Eugland in Church Service in manner and forme prescribed are such parts of divine worship as is a foresaid Ergo To heare and Communicate with the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England in manner and forme prescribed is a will-worship Answere The Proposition is taken forth of the 12. Argumentes and therfore
therfore will stand him in noe steed whether it bee true or fals and therfore I leaue it to their maintenance from whom hee saith hee borroweth it THE FIFT REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE offer of Conference EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IF the Propositions propounded to bee maintained in the offer of Conference bee true To avoid tediousnes I forbeare to set them downe as M Iohnson hath done but thou shalt discern what they are afterward in the Answer then is it not lawfull to heare or haue any speciall Communion with the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande But those Propositions are true Ergo It is not lawfull to haue any Speciall Communion with the same Answere The Consequent is fals doth not follow from the said Propositions 1. Though it should be graunted That all matters meerely Ecclesiasticall lawfully imposed vpon any Church are such as may bee concluded necessarily from the written word of God Yet in a true constituted Church some matters meerely Ecclesiasticall may bee imposed through humaine frailty that cannot so bee concluded 2. Though all humaine ordinances vsed onely or specially in Gods worship whervnto they are not necessary of themselues were simply vnlawfull Yet is not every such humaine ordinance of that nature that it maketh the Church and Ministery wher it is vsed to bee a fals Church and Ministery much lesse those Churches and that Ministery wherin it is not vsed but injoined onely 3. Though it were generally graunted of all That every true visible Church of Christ is such a Spirituall body politick as is specially instituted by Christ or his Apostles in the new Testament Yet it will not thence follow That those Churches and Ministeries are not to bee communicated withall that haue any thing in or appertaining to the constitution therof not instituted by Christ or that such Churches are not true visible Churches 4. Though every true visible Church of Christ or ordinary Assemblie of the faithfull hath by Christs ordinance power in it selfe immedialy vnder Christ to elect and ordaine deprive and depose their Ministers and to execute all other Ecclesiasticall Censures Yet will it not follow from thence That all they are fals Churches and not to bee communicated with all That doe not or by the lawes of man are not suffred to vse that power Nether is it sure the meaning of them who offer the Conference To maintaine That they are no true visible Churches of Christ that cannot vse that power but are therein subject to others for one may by Christs ordinance haue a power to doe that which yet in regard of man he hath noe power to doe 5. Though the Pastor of a perticuler congregation should be yealded to bee the highest ordinary Ecclesiasticall officer in any true constituted visible Church of Christ Yet cā it not hence bee concluded That those Pastors are fals Pastors who are outwardly by mans lawes subjected to a Superior Ecclesiastical officer The Father ordinary is the highest officer in the family yet if the Magistrate subject the father in some matters appertaining to the family to another Though therin it may bee hee may doe the father some wrong yet doth not the father therby become a fals father or the family a fals family Admitte then that this prerogatiue due to Pastors to haue noe Spirituall officers superior vnto them yet is it not so essential vnto him that without the Actuall vse and possession of it hee cannot bee a true Pastor And yet take a true visible Church in that sence which the officers of the conference doe viz. for a perticuler ordinary Assembly or Congregation And then in our owne Churches The Pastor is the higest ther being noe Ecclesiasticall Officer in any such Churches a boue him 6. Graunt this That it is the office of every true Pastor to teach and Governe Spiritually one Congregation immediately vnder Christ Can it from hence bee concluded That they are noe true Pastors which governe more congregations then one or which are subject in some outward things to some others besids Christ 7. Admit That the offices of Provinciall and diocesan Bishops were contrary to the word of God must it needs ther vpon follow That those Ministers and Churches which are vnder them by the lawes of man are fals such especially who obey them onely in things which they judge honest and lawfull and who vnder this subjection doe no more then they would doe if they were not subject at all vnto the Bishops A man must therfore bring a better head wit with him then M. Iohnsons That by the Propositions of the offer of Conference how harsh soeuer they may seeme to bee can conclude it vnlawfull to joine and communicate with our Church Assemblies For the profe of this consequent he bringeth nothing out of our owne writings but onely to giue his reader therby a vomit some of his owne Coleworts not twise but twise twenty times sodden To which wee giue him leaue to looke an Answer from some as idle headded as himselfe THE SIXT ARGVMENT TAKEN OVT OF DIvers Treatises Answered This Proposition being a whol leaf in his booke I forbeare any further anser downe there being in effect little difference in the matter from that which hee hath formerly brought Fr. Ihon. IF the is Assertious bee true That that Church calling for which the Scripture giue noe expresse warrant is meerely vsurped and vtterly vnlawfull That as it is not lawfull to bring in any strange doctrin so is it not lawful to teach the true doctrine vnder the name of any other function then is instituted by God c. But the aforesaid Assertions are true Therfore it is vnlawful to haue communiō with that Ministery Answere This Argument being a collection out of our writers doth not differ from the former as himselfe graunteth and therfore needs noe further Answer The Consequent is fals and hee proues it not by any of our owne writers as hee ought to doe but stil brings vs profes out of his owne musty Aumbry The Assumption therfore borrowed out of our owne writers will doe him noe pleasure THE SEAVENTH REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE twelue Arguments viz. the tenth EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IT is a sinne against Christ the sole head of the Church to haue spirituall communion with those Ministers which in their Administratiō of divine things do either by word or deed solemly professe and yeald a spirituall homage to an vsurped spirituall Authoritie in the Church But so do the Ministers of the Church Assemblies of England Ergo It is a sinne to haue communion with the same Answere The Proposition is fals And hath noe ground from that Proposition in the 12. Arguments vnto which hee would match and forth of which hee would draw it The Proposition there is this It is a sinne against Christ the sole head of the Church for any one of his Ministers especially in the administration of divine things either by words or signes
Spirituall Communion with them And wher hee saith that this is nothing for any fals Ministery neuer ordained of the Lord such as ours is proued to bee Noe man ever brought it to proue any such matter But onely to proue that such corruptions as are in our Ministery ought noe more to hinder communion with our Ministers then the corruptions in the Ministery of the Scribes and Pharesees did hinder the communion with their Ministery and that the corruptions in our Ministery doe noe more argue our Ministers to bee fals Ministers then their corruptions did argue them to bee fals Ministers Nether hath hee brought any Argument to proue our Ministers fals Ministers but either such corruptions as the Scribes and Pharesees were guilty of in as high if not a higher degree or in respect of their names in that they are called Priests and Deacons So that if the Scribes Pharesees were true Ministers not with standing their names and other corruptions our Ministers cannot bee fals in regard of the like names and corruptions furthermore if to be expounders of the Law bee sufficient to argue their Ministery to bee a true Ministery nothwithstanding their names of Scribes and Pharesees with other vile grosse corruptions why may not the Preaching of the word and administration of the Sacraments bee sufficient to argue our Ministers to bee true Pastors and Teachers notwithstāding that in the mouth of the law they are sometimes called Priests and Deacons For otherwise in the mouths of men euen of the Bishops themselues they are not so called except sometimes by Metaphoricall allusions to the Leviticall Preesthood But they are vsually so called onely by profane Atheists or ignorant people with whom in this point the Seperation goeth hand in hand 2. To bee a Pharesie was not onely as hee minceth the matter to be of a speciall Sect amongst the Iewes that pretended more strict obseruances of the law then others But also which as it is to be feared with a fraudulent minde hee concealeth to joine mainy humaine Traditions and will-worships to the worship and seruice of God wherby they are saide by Christ himselfe in vaine to worship God and to make the commaundements of God of none effect making more accompt of and vrging with more severity the said Traditions then Gods owne laws And in like manner wee affirme That to bee a Priest and Deacon in the intent of our law whatsoeuer the words may ring to the contrary in some mens eares is at the worst to bee such a kinde of pastor and Teacher as is content over and besids those duties of the Ministery which Christ requires of them to yeald conformity also to humaine Traditions of noe worse nature and quality in themselues then those which the Pharesies vsed in or about Gods seruice wherin to suppose that they sin yet cannot this their sin be so repugnant to the Ministery of Christ as that of the Scribes and Pharesies which they are forced to acknowledge to be a true Ministery In that they were the vrgers of Traditions wheras our Ministers for the most part onely yeald vnto them either in obeidience and loue or feare of the Magistrat that commaundes them Lastly wheras hee argues them true Ministers by this that though they were very corrupt yet the did still hould that euery Ministery must bee from Heaven and not of men It deserues rather to bee laughed at then answered For may not yea doe the falsest Ministery that are or ever haue bene hould so much at least in such a sence and meaning as the Pharesies might hould it And can hee name any amongst vs that houlds not as much THE SECOND REASON EXAMINED Fr. Ihon. NOne may heare or haue any Spiritually communion with the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie Such is the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande Ergo None may heare haue any Spirituall communion with the same Answere I graunt the Proposition taking the words in the plaine and common sence viz. vnderstanding by the Ministery of Antichrists Apostacie The administration and dispensation of the things of Antichrist otherwise to communicate spiritually with any Ministers what soeuer onely in the holy things of Christ is not to communicate with the Ministery of Antichrists Apostacy no though the Ministers be Ministers therof Nether do the 5. Reasons following whereby hee needlesly proues his preposition proue it vnlawfull to heare or haue any spirituall communion with the Ministers of Antichrist then when they Minister the things of Christ For the profe of the Assumption hee makes a terrible muster if no lesse then 7. Arguments But let vs pull vp our Spirets and see what is in them one by one Fr. Iohn The Ministery of Deacons and Priests ordained by the Prelats thervnto is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy The 1. Arg. The Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande is such a Ministery Ergo It is of Antichrists Apostasie Answere Hee brought this very Argument to proue the first Reason and now hee brings it againe for a profe of his second Reason And is not this a learned kind of reasoning when hee will make a shew of multitudes of Reasons against vs and yet all of them come to one issue and lie vpon one ground and depend vpon one profe so that the overthrowe of one is the overthrowe of all But his childish vanitie herein wee shall better perceaue in that which followeth Both the Proposition and Assumption are fals For 1. It is not necessary that the Ministery of Priests and Deacons though ordained by Antichrist himselfe should be the Ministery of his Apostacy But not withstanding his ordination their Ministery may be the Ministery of Iesus Christ As was the Ministery of Luther Husse Wickliffe and others 2. The Ministery of such manner of Priests and Deacons as the Prelats ordaine or by the lawes ought to ordaine is the true Ministery of Iesus Christ and for the substance therof directly contrary to the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy 3. The Ministery of our Church Assemblies is not as I haue shewed before the Ministery of Priests and Deacons properly so taken but of Pastors and Teachers The Proposition hee proueth as followeth by two Arguments Fr. Iohn The Ministery of Deacons and Priests which accompts it selfe to bee Christs and yet was not set by Christ in his Church for the worke of his Ministery is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy Such is the Ministery of Deacons and Priests ordained by the Prelats therevnto Ergo It is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy Answere This Argument is it which hee bringeth for the first Reason of all and here hee brings it to proue that which before was brought to proue it For hee proues That our Ministery is not set by Christ in his Church by this because it is the Ministery of Priests and Deacons and so by consequent of Antichrists Apostasie Here hee proues That the Ministery of Priests and Deacons is the Ministery of Antichrists
more the vphould the Ministery of iniquitie and intisse vnto their stolne waters and hid bread 4. That our Church assemblies are not true visible Churches of Christ vnseperated from the worlde not joyned together in Communion of the Gospell by voluntary Profession of the faith and submission to the Gouerment of Christ but standing in bondage vnto Antichrist The very rehearsall of which reasons is answer sufficient he being notable to proue any of theis assertions but either by the Assumption it selfe that they are brought to proue or one by another circularly Contrarily I affirme 1. That ther is no ordinary Ministeriall office that Christ hath giuen vnto his Church for the worke of his Ministery but our Ministers either haue or by our lawes ought to haue the same 2. That it is a Ministery as opposite for the substaunce therof to the Ministery of Popish Priests Deacons as light is opposit to darknesse 3. That the Pope left not such Priests and Deacons as ours are nor hath any such in his Kingdome But that our Priests and Deacons haue bene vnder God and the Prince the principall Persons that haue driuen the Pope and his Priests and Deacons out of the Realme That it is devilish for any to say that they are devilish except they can proue it by better reasons That they that haue the best gifts doe not intice any to stolne waters or hidden bread or to vphould any Mistery of iniquitie Except the Gospell of Iesus Christ and the true and onely meanes of salvation bee the Mistery of iniquitie 4. That our Church Assemblies being such as by the lawes of the land they ought to bee are so far forth seperated from the world joyned together in the communion of the Gospell by the voluntary profession of faith c. and freed from Antichrist as is sufficient to make them true visible Churches of Christ notwithstanding that many things may bee wanting to the full and desired perfection of them And I doubt not but wee shall bee far more able at any time by reason out of Gods worde to proue theis points then ever M. Iohnson will bee to proue the contrary And yet it were easie to proue any thing by such a jugling Method of Reasoning as M. Iohnson hath gotten For hee can proue you the 1. Reason by the 2 the 2. by the 1. The 3. by the 1. and 2 the 1. and 2. by the 3. The 4. by the 1.2 3. and every of them by the 4. and all 4. by that question which here they are brought to proue THE FIFT REASON EXAMINED Fr. Iohn NOne may heare or haue any Spirituall communion with those Ministers which Minister the holy things of God and worke vpon the Consciences of men by vertue of a fals Spirituall calling Such are the Ministers of the Church Assemblies of Englande Ergo None may heare or haue any Spirituall communion with them Answere This Argument which here hee brings against our Ministery is the very same with the 2. For by a fals Spirituall calling hee meanes a calling proceeding from the Apostasie of Antichrist The Preposition for brevitie sake hee proues by fiue and thirtie places of Scripture And yet who soeuer shall pleas to take the paines to examine them shall finde that nether severally nor joyntly they proue the same The Assumption wheron the whole weight of the controversie leaneth hee proueth onely by the first Argument wherby hee proued the Assumption of the 2. Reason viz. Because they doe it by vertue of their Ministery receaved of their Prelats from their Spirituall Authority which is vsurped and Antichristian And this is all this witnesse hath to say and all the answer it needeth Onely hee wandreth into certaine objections and queries grounded vpon some supposed defences of some of our Ministers Vnto which I will though I neede not giue a breif answer from point to point Obj. Some say they preach not by vertue of their Ministery taken from the Prelats but by vertue of some other calling and Authority Ans I knowe none hauing receaued ordination from the Prelats that neede deny that they preach partly by vertue of the Ministery which they haue taken from them Noe though they hould the calling of Prelates vnlawfull For what is the Ministery which they haue taken from them for the substance therof But after a triall of their gifts a libertie and leaue graunted vnto them to preach the worde of God and administer the Sacraments in such Congregations as they shall bee called vnto Obj. Why will such seeme to renounce that calling receaued of the Prelats and yet blame vs for doing the like Ans They may acknowledge a further calling then that of the Prelats and yet not therin renounce the calling receaved from the Prelates but rather ratifie the same For the Prelats being learned divines and having approued of their gifts and by words and letters Testimoniall giuen libertie to execute the Ministery of the Gospell they doe not therby thrust them into a Ministery but they leaue them to bee further called or chosen either by the people or those Patrons vnto whose fidelitie the people haue committed this charge And therfore this acknowledging of a further calling maketh nothing to the justification of the proude ignorant schism of this Persons Obj. If they preach by virtue of another calling how then stande they Ministers of that Church wher noe other is alowed and how impose they themselues vpon any of their Parishe Assemblies seing the lawes of the land allow onely the Prelacie Priesthood and Deaconry a foresaide Ans Though this should be graunted which hee in his ignorāt simplicitie doth suppose that some amongst vs hauing bene ordained by the Prelates did exercise our Ministery by virtue of another calling and though the law of the land alow noe other yet especially so long as they are permitted to execute their Ministery by those in Authority though it bee by virtue of another calling they are to bee reputed Ministers of that Church that hath vse of their Ministery Obj. How also herein can they avoide to bee both intruders and hipocrits intruders in taking vpon themselues a publique office in that Church against the publique lawes and constitutions therof hipocrits because they pretend in shew one thing to the Prince and State and yet performe another indeede Ans All theis inferences are vpon a fals supposition yet if there were any such Persons they could noe more therin bee said to bee intruders and hipocrits then they of the Seperation are For though the publique lawes should bee against any other calling yet so long as they take an office by a good calling they cannot bee said to intrude themselues Nether doe any such amongst vs if ther bee any such pretend in shew any more then they doe indeed performe for so far forth as any differ in iudgement from the publique lawes of the State they are ready to professe it being called thervnto and they practis
needs noe Answer The Assumption is fals But hee proueth it thus 1. Man imposeth this Ministery vpon man and God in his word hath not appointed these offices and Callings Nether required any to communicate with them in Church Service in manner and forme prescribed And 2. the people stand bound to heare and communicate with them vpon paine of Suspension deprivation c. and God must haue noe solemne worship in England except it be with communion to the same Ergo To heare and communicate with the present Ministery c. is a part of divine worship imposed as a fore saide The first part of the Anticedent is fals and is not proued by any ground taken from the 12. Arguments for not man onely but God also hath imposed this Ministery and hath appointed for the substance therof their offices Callings of the Ministers of our Church Assemblies And hath required vs to communicate with them in Church Service in that forme and manner which the law in the true meaning therof prescribes which many at the least doe practis Nether doth the consequent follow vpon the second part of the Antecedent for though humaine lawes vnder never so great punishments should bind vs to never so great corruptions in Gods Service yet so lang as wee doe not actually communicate in those corruptions but onely in the true parts of Gods worship our communicating is never the wors for the said lawes of men but rather the better Nether doe wee herein stand more bound then M. Iohnson and his people doe when they are in theis dominions So that it makes as much against communicating with their Ministery as ours Though therfore as the Author of the 12. Arguments hath indevoured to proue the Ceremonies in Controversie should be held to be a will-worship and therfore a sin to vse them in Gods worship yet it followeth not by the same Argument that it is a sinne to communicate with the Ministery of our Church Assemblies noe though it should vse the said Ceremonies much lesse wher and when it vseth them not as in some places or at some times it doth not nether is it by law required so to doe THE SECOND REASON taken from the twelue Arguments EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IT is a sinne against God for Christians to pertake with the Ministery of such as accounting thomselues to bee Servants of Iesus Christ yet doe in the execution of their Ministery giue speciall honor to Antichrist and his officers But the Ministery of the Church of England is such Therfore it is a sinne for Christians to pertake therwith Answere First I deny the Proposition The true and best Ministers of Iesus Christ that ever were or shall bee since the Apostles may in their ignorance or weacknes do some act in their Ministry that may bring some speciall honor to Antichrist and yet Christians may lawfully and without sinne pertake with such in their Ministery It being not necessary that who soever pertaketh with a Ministery should pertake also with the accidentall corruptions therof Hee tels vs like a bould and blind biard That the Proposition is manifest and clear to any that haue an ey of Reason and any light of divinitie shining in it And yet it hath not so much as any colour of truth but in the eyes of such owles and bats as himselfe is Arg. 2 The Proposition in the twelue Arguments vnto which hee would equall and paralel his is this It is a sinne against God for him that is by way of excellency a Servant of Iesus Christ without a precise and directe warrant from him at any time especially in the Solemne worship of God to give speciall honour to Antichrist and his members What must it needs follow vpon this That it is a sinne to pertake any manner of way with such a ones Ministery as shall in any measure commit such a sinne must the joining with them in any other parts of their Ministery needs bee a communicating with them in this sinne Hee bids vs see for this 2. Cor. 6.14.17 Rev. 18.4 but what is this to the twelue Arguments from which hee saith this reason is taken And to what end should wee see those places except hee had first made vs to see That our Ministers in their Ministery are Infidels and Belials That their Ministery for the substance therof is vnrighteousnes and darknesse That the God wee serued in our Ministery is an Idoll That our Assemblies are Babylon And all this because some thing happily is donne by our Ministers which and yet contrary to their intent is some honour to Antichrist For except all this bee graunted vnto him theis Texts are of noe force to confirme the Preposition The Assumption is as fals as the Proposition Nether doth it follow from the Assumption of that Argument of the 12. from which hee would ground it For though it should bee graunted That to vse the Ceremonies in Controversie in manner and forme prescribed were to give speciall honors to Antichrist and his officers Yet it doth not follow That the Ministery of our Church Assemblies are such that in the execution of their Ministery giue speciall honour to Antichrist and his officers For some of our Ministers from whom hee seperateth do not in the execution of their Ministery vse the said Ceremonies at any time Nether do any of our Ministers at all times in the execution therof vse them nether are required so to doe The Assumption not-withstanding hee proceedeth to proue thus Fr. Iohn Such a Conformitie to Antichrist and his officers as is not onely besids the word of God but in a speciall manner derogatory to all reformed Churches that haue departed from the Synagogue of Rome is a speciall honour to Antichrist and his Officers But the Execution of the Ministery of the Church of Englande is such Ergo The Execution of that Ministery in manner a foresaid is to giue speciall honour to Antichrist and his officers Answere The Proposition is word for word in a manner taken out of the 12. Arguments And therfore for this controversie not to bee stood vpon whether it be true or fals The Assumption is fals and hath noe ground at all from the 12. Argumets For though it should be graunted That to vse the Ceremonies in Controversie in divine worship is such a Conformitie to Antichrist and his members as is specified in the Proposition yet noe man except hee haue some Crack in his braine can from thence inferre That the execution of our Ministery is such a conformitie especially then when in the execution therof they doe not vse the said Ceremonies which none doe at all times and some doe never Hee proceeds to proue the Assumption not by any ground taken from the 12. Arguments but by some of the fragements of his owne former reasonles reasons and therfore the maine issue of the Argumēt lying not vpon any thing in the said Arguments This second reason of his cannot bee said to bee taken