committed Surely they are as tolerable in a Church where the Supreme Power thinks good to establish that Order as are Chancellors Commissaries c. But in case that some Presbyterians of old held them of use in the Apostles days this alone without an Institution and an Injunction to perpetuate them doth not make them or any other Ecclesiastical Officers unalterable for we see that the Office of Widdows is laid aside in the Church notwithstanding Quest Did not the Presbyterians wholly lay aside the use of the Lords Supper And was it not for want of Ruling Elders Answ They celebrated the Lords Supper in London and that too in some Churches once a Month and frequently at Oxford and I suppose in many other places Possibly the expectation of a settlement might hinder the Administration of that Ordinance for a time in many places Bur I knew a Parish where it was a long time disused though desired because the Parishoners did not provide though oft urged unto it by the Minister decent and necessary Utensils for the Celebration of it Quest Do the Nonconformists decry all use of Reason in Theology Answ They use frequently Reasons in their Sermons Indeed they allow Reason but the second place in Divinity to Revelation they give the first Reason and Philosophy they make to be the Handmaids but Divinity they honour as their Soveraign Lady and Queen Reason is the Counsellor but Revelation is the Law-giver We say the Light of Reason is as the Light of a Glow-Worm or of a Candle or if you will needs have it as the Light of the Moon but the Light of Divine Revelation is as the Light of the Sun when it shineth in its full strength Dr. T. And with a reverend and learned Doctor we allow the use of a Candle although we would have it snuffed and when it is set up in the house we would not have the Window shut either to keep our or at least to darken the Light of the Sun We prefer feeding on Manna before feeding on Acorns and Husks the Commands of St. Paul before the Precepts of Plato the Mass of Gold in the Mine before a few pieces of Silver scattered here and there in the Studies of Philosophers Quest Do the Congregations of those that dissent from the established Worship consist mostly of Army Saints Answ I have heard one that hath reason to know upon many Accounts better than the Author of the Debate say That there is scarce a fifth person of those that meet privately that was engaged in the late Differences And that the greatest part of the late Army are at this day Members of Parochial Churches is an even Wager Quest Do the Arminians or Calvinists come nearest to the Doctrine of the Church of England Answ The profound pious and learned Doctor Samuel Ward that was the La. Margaret's Professor of Divinity in Cambridge whose Determinations are set out by the great pains and care of the Right Reverend Seth Lord Bishop of Sarisbury in a Sermon of his Ad Clerum and dedicated by himself to the University of Cambridge testifies That as the whole Church of God ever since St. Austine so in particular the National Church of England and the University of Cambridge from the Reformation and all the Professors except onely one Baro were against Arminius his Tenets And this Baro within two years was forced to leave the Chair by the Power and Authority of Archbishop Whitgift Illud etiam verè adjicere possum plus uni Augustino jam veterano in ista causa versatissimo tribuendum esse quà m centùm Corvinis Grotiis Vorstiis Bertiis Tilenis id genus recentioribus Dogmatistis Accedat illud coronidis loco Augustino semper ad baesisse hac ex-parte Ecclesiam Universalem ab ejus temporibus Ecclesiam item Anglicanam ab initio Reformationis c. Quest Is the case of the Donatists and the case of the Non-conformists alike Answ The Donatists as they had no cause in regard of the Faith by reason of any dangerous Doctrines or Practices imposed on them to cease from communicating with any part of the Catholick Church so they divided from the whole Church with the breach of Charity condemning it for no Church and drawing the Communion wholly to themselves The Nonconformists do not condemn the Church of England as no Church they do not confine the Communion to themselves they humbly pray a Reformation of some things which they conceive amiss and are willing to have Communion with them as Parts of the Catholick Church saving the Practices wherein they differ they leave them to their Liberty and desire a Liberty for themselves to serve God according to their Consciences The Presbyterians shewed their Charity in their earnest endeavours to save the life of Dr. Hewit an Episcopal Dr for which purpose they joyned in an Address to O. C. the only Address they ever made unto him Neither Presbyterians nor Congregationists charge the Episcopalians for being Schismaticks because they do not communicate with their Congregations and yet they look upon themselves as true Churches of Christ and both for Doctrine and Discipline to come as near the Scripture-Patern as themselves They offered to Unite and Reconcile with the Episcopal-Clergy upon Christian terms before His Majesties Return and since As for out Brethren of New England they are of Age let them answer for themselves As for our Congreational Brethren at home I lately heard that Dr. Goodwin should profess to hold Communion even with the Lutheran Churches And Dr. Owen professeth against all Impositions and that 't is his Judgment That the Episcopals and Presbyterians be left to worship God as they judge in their Consciences best That for his part he judgeth no man for his Conformity provided he be not a Persecuter of those that cannot Finally The Presbyterians for themselves desire much rather a Reformation or well stated Comprehension than a Toleration and are against Schism and Separation truly so called as much as any which they have sufficiently evidenced by their constantly declared Opinions and Practice They would be glad to see the day when being eased of burdensome Impositions they might have opportunity to manifest this their sincere desire of Union and Coalition with the Church of England A Postscript to the Author of the Friendly Debate SIR YOu have dealt with us as the Jewes did with our Blessed Saviour blindfolded us smitten us in effect bid us Prophesie who it is that smote us Some ghesses have been who you are by the roughness of your hand and the smartness of the blow I have not taken upon me thus to shoot in the dark and yet pretend to hit the Mark Nor will I go about to pull off the Vizor you put upon your own face but to wipe off the dirt which you have cast on ours To this purpose I pray you after these premised Reflections by me on some Passages in your Friendly Debate c.
Non-conformists as such yet I cannot but own my utter dislike of the Principles and Practises of some high Conformists or Hectors for Conformity namely such as prefer the Romish Church before the Reformed Transmarine Churches Arminius before St. Austine who judge Aerius a greater Heretick than Arrius who have more charity for those that deny the Deity of our Saviour than for those that scruple the strict jus divinum of Episcopacy and who can with more Patience hear a Dispute against the very Being of a Deity than about the taking away of a Ceremony that profess themselves the chiefest Sons of the Church of England and yet dissent from her Doctrine contained in the Articles Homilies and Liturgie and transgress the Laws of the Church about Rites and Ceremonies by going too far on the right hand or running too far before them and become Non-conformists themselves and breakers of the Act of Uniformity even by their extream Conformity These these are the Hectors I mean who when they have perswaded a man to strain hard to go a mile with them in Conformity will compel him to go twaine that are implacable Enemies to Non-conformists though peaceable and Pious and are no good Friends to Conformists except under the same degree of Longitude and Latitude with themselves Yea I may say that notwithstanding their pretended zeal ard devotion to the Hierarchy look on former Archbishops such as Grindal Whitgift Abbot as Puritans and would if they could Unbishop some of the present Bishops for Presbyterians As tor the Author of the Friendly Debate I hope better things of him and though he be a Champion for the Conformists cause and I differ from him in many things yet I must confess I do not look on him as one of the Hectors before described but I say of him rather Talis quùn sit utinam noster esset For I am confident that one of his parts learning and stile could easily make a Dialogue wherein the high Conformists should appear as simple and ridiculous as he hath made the Non-conformists My Petition my humble and hearty Petition is to the Fathers of the Church the most Reverend the Archbishops and the Right reverend the Bishops and to the Sons of the Church our Conforming Brethren That they would manifest their love to Peace by their condescentions and desires of Union with their dissenting Brethren and that there might be by the means of the Governours of our Church their Mediation with His Majesty and the Parliament some such Laws made as might for ever take away the differences 'twixt them and those that are for Moderation that still hold themselves Members of the Church of England though not admitted to be Teachers in it And Oh! that it were in their hearts as many of them as hold Communion with the Reformed Churches beyond Seas to offer such Bill or Bills to King and Parliament as might enable the Bishops to receive all again into the Bosom of the Church and to the Exercise of their Ministry who besides taking the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy to his Majesty can conform to what is necessary in other Reformed Churches And my earnest desire to all Nonconformists is That they love and follow the Truth and Peace that they endeavour after Union and Coalition however that they avoid Schism and Separation truly so called And especially that they keep far from that dividing Principle To imagine a thing of it self indifferent to be therefore unlawful because commanded by a lawful Authority and also from that grand Crime of the Donatists that unchurched all besides themselves My Protestation is this That whereas the Author of the Debate hath offered us Nonconformists many and great Affronts hath made so many hard and desperate Thrusts or Passes at us and hard thereby forced us at last to Draw in our own Defence That if he shall presently cause our Persons or Weapons to be arrested or seized therefore He may never more be proclaimed for a Couragious Champion nor the Nonconformists posted for base Cowards If the High Sons of the Church have the Liberty and Priviledge to throw Ink in out Faces the Sons of Adam the Sons of Peace and his Majesties good Subjects may have we hope a Toleration or Connivence to wipe it off These things premised Since the Author of the Debate hath so vehemently charged us and put in a First and a Second Indictment against us for Irreligion Disloyalty Schism Sacriledge c. We plead NOT GUILTY And put our selves upon the Tryal of our Countrey which be You. The Contents Page EVery transgression of humane Law not deadly p. 3 4. Nonconformists better treated in former times p. 7 8. Nonconformists not Schismaticks or Sectaries p. 10 11 12. Ordinations by Presbyters formerly counted valid by 〈…〉 p. 12 13 14. The Assemâ—â—y men cleared from countenancing Sacrilege p. 15 16. Non-conformists offer to clear themselves by Oath from Peevishness and Obstinacy p. 17. Nonconformists not like Pharisees p. 17. How Conformists and Nonconformists may be Reconciled p. 18 19. What Reformation was desired formerly by the House of Commons in the 30th Year of Queen Eliz. p. 21 22. Nonconformists not so rigid towards Dissenters as is pretended p. 22 23. Nonconformists Obedient to His Majesty Declared against the late horrid Murder of His late Majesty p. 26 27. Nonconformists do not deprive his Majesty Ecclesiastical Causes p. 32 117 11 Of Conformists and Non-conformists Charitâ—â— p. 34 35 Presbyterians no Changelings p. 37 Nonconformists use the Lords Prayer p. 39 Why some scruple some old Words as Altar Priest c. p. 41 42 Of keeping Holy-dayes p. 43 44 Of the Surplice p. 46 47 48 Conformists differ amongst themselves in many things p. 49 50 Of praying that we may Preach in the evidence anâ— demonstration of the Spirit p. 53 54 Of Praying by the Spirit p. 55 66. Of conceived Prayer and Prayer â—â—â—â—ok p. 59. Of Afternoon-Sermons p. 62. Of Catechising p. 64. Of divers modes of Preaching p. 60 69. Of Conventicles p. 61. Of Experimental Preaching p. 70 71. Nonconformists Preach Obedience to Magistrates p. 72 73. And to the Moral Law p. 75 77 78. Some Conformists Dissent from the Doctrine of the Church of England p. 80 81. Of Absolute Promises p. 83. Of Good Works in the matter of Justification p. 85. Of the difference 'twixt the Old and New Covenant p. 86. Non-conformists not Time servers p. 89. Of Holy Conference p. 96. Of Stage-Playes p. 97. Of Mr. T. W. p. 99 10. Of Mr. W. B. p. 100. A Declaration against Vennor and his Confederates by the Congregational Ministers p. 101. Non-conformists more tolerable than Papists and Quakers p. 102 103. The old Puritans peaceable p. 106. Modern Non-conformists compared with those in Queen Eliz. her dayes p. 111. Unity may be where there is not Uniformity p. 126. Presbyterians no Separatists p. 128. Presbyterians rather to be satisfied than Papists p. 131 132. The Divinity of Non-conformists not
of the Debate tells us in his Continuation p. 383. that at first the chief promoters of stinted Liturgies were renowned for their constant and unwearied preaching every day in the week and someeimes twice and as probably this was one thing that advanced the credit and esteem of Liturgies in former times As I am perswaded one great cause why many do not esteem of the Liturgy so much now is that so many great Conformists and sticklers for it are Pluralists and Nonresidents and divers of them either preach not at all or very seldom and then too some of them preach against Preaching and saw down the branch of that Tree upon which they stand so high above their Brethren And on the other side those who scruple some things in the Liturgy and Ceremonies are such constant and zealous Preachers and that when Bonds and Imprisonments abide them for their so doing Quest But is it not indeed the Bond of the Covenant the Scottish Covenant wherewith our English Presbyterians have bound their Souls the great or onely Cause that makes so many Nonconformists Answ The Covenant mentioned was not the cause of the War the Battel at Edge-hill was fought before the Covenant came into England And whereas the Covenant was enter'd into in Forty Two and Forty Three there have been Nonconformists ever since Bishop Hooper and the Reformation in King Edward the Sixth's days There are some amongst the Covenanters that can conform to the Liturgy and submit to Episcopal Government And the greater part of Nonconformists Preachers at this day never took the Covenant Quest. What is the reason that divers Nonconformists read Logick in private Houses Is not this contrary to their Oath takes in the University Cont. p. 10. edit 4. Answ I have consulted as able as any in the Universities and by their Offices as likely to know as any about the matter and am told That the Oath there prohibits the setting up of another University in Opposition to the Universities and Reading in order to the taking Degrees elsewhere The words are at Oxford They shall not solennes Lectiones resumere which doth not make Dr. Busby perjured for initiating his Scholars some time in Logick before they go to the University Nor the several Professors at Gresham-Colledge who read as solemn Lectures surely as a Nonconformist doth in a private house Besides I hear but of one Nonconformist that at present doth teach Youth in that manner privately Quest What security can his Majesty and the Parliament have that Nonconformists will not under pretence of Conscience or Covenant seditiously endeavour an Alteration of Church-Government but that they will live quietly and peaceably in their places Answ They are ready to give the ancient Legal-Security the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy and that is more than the Papists will do and as much as is required of the generality of the rest of the Nation notwithstanding their having taken the Engagement in the late times which yet many Presbyterians now Nonconformists and Ejected Ministers would never do though some of them lost their Places for their refusal Moreover many of them since have taken an Oath not to endeavour any Alteration of Government in Church and State and yet are not trusted to preach publickly much less to enjoy any Ecclesiastical Benefice And the rest that scruple some words or phrases in that Oath are yet ready besides the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy to swear that they will live quietly and peaceably in their places and not under colour or pretence of the Covenant or any pretence whatever endeavour by force or sediciously and tumultuously any Alteration of Government in Church and State Quest. Is the Act of Uniformity and the Oxford Act to be strictly and rigorously pressed upon and executed on all transgressors Answ If it be then what will become of many Conformists who use other Rites and Ceremonies than what are by Law required and of them who use other Forms of Prayer then are there prescribed and of all those Ministers that do not reade the Common-Prayer either publickly or privately morning and evening and so those Lecturers who do not monthly reade their Assent Consent c. And as for the Oxford Act Oath I have heard from a very learned person a Conformist that the Bishops themselves come within the compass of it as many as have not assented and consented c. as oft as they came within five miles of their Sees or any ther Corporation This I say not to bring the Bishops within but to bring others out of the reach of that Act or rather to encline if it nay be our Fathers and Brethren to use their interest with his Majesty and Parliament to remove those Laws which are a Partition-wall betwixt the Conformist Nonconformist Quest. But are not the Nonconformists sinners and transgressors of the Divine Law as oft as they withdraw from actual communion with the Church of England being as many of them confess a true Church Ans Many of our learned Doctors hold Rome to be a true Church as a Woman is a true Woman though an Harlot and a Man a true Man though overspread with Leprosie And yet being we cannot actually hold external communion with them without either subscribing to many false Tenets or joyning in a corrupt and Idolatrous Service we withdraw from them without sin Our withdrawing is not to be charged with sin or schism although too we were the minor part who withdrew and against the determination of a pretended General Councel And I believe it would be a hard matter to prove that many of those Meetings which are now commonly called Conventicles want any of the essential requisites to a true Church and yet do not think themselves Schismaticks for not holding actual communion with them because not countenanced by the Law And if a Legal Establishment be absolutely necessary to the being of a true Christian Church then there was no true Church at Rome till Constantine's dayes which I suppose you will judge very unreasonable to assert Quest Is it possible there should be Unity without Uniformity in Rites and Ceremonies c. Answ Yes There is Unity amongst the Protestant Reformed Churches beyond the Seas that follow Calvin and yet divers forms of Prayer and divers Rites The Author of the Debate will not take it well if a man should not say there is Unity at home amongst Conformists and yet the Cathedrals and Country-Parish-Churches differ in some Rites and in their mode of Worship and in the Parish-Churches there are diversity of Ceremonies and Usages in the Worship of God In some Churches they stand up at the Hymns in others not In some they reade the Hymns and Psalms Minister and People antiphonatim in others not In some in most they reade the Prayer for Christs Catholick Church if at all before Sermon but I know where 't is constantly read after And it is well known that none boast more of
An Humble APOLOGY FOR Non-Conformists WITH Modest and Serious REFLECTIONS ON THE FRIENDLY DEBATE And the CONTINUATION Thereof By a Lover of Truth and Peace 1 Cor. 4.13 Being defamed we intreat 2 Cor. 6.8 As Deceivers and yet true Printed in the Year 1669. To the Readers THe Author of the Friendly Debate having smitten us on the face both on the right cheek and on the left lest our deep silence be brought in evidence to proclaim our guiltiness and so having lost our Livings we should lose our good Names also which ought to be dearer to us than our very Lives It may seem high time to Apologize for our selves and to make it appear to the World that we are not so black and ugly as we are painted nor so bad as we are represented Our Apology shall be that of the blessed Apostle St. Paul a little alter'd against whom also they brought many and grievous Accusations which they were not able to prove They have not found us in the Temples or Churches disputing with any man neither raising up the people neither in the Synagogues or places of Convention for Religious Exercises or in the City neither can they prove the things whereof they accuse us But this many of us confess That After the way that they call Schism and Phanaticism so worship me the God of our Fathers believing all things that are written in the Old and New Testament and in the Articles of Religion of the Church of England so far as concerns the Doctrine of Faith and Sacraments And are still ready to subscribe to all that the Learned and Famous Mr. Chillingworth saith was meant by Subscription namely That we are perswaded that the constant Doctrine of the Church of England is so pure and Orthodox that whosoever believes it and lives according to it shall be saved and that there is no Error in it which may necessitate any man to disturb the peace or renounce the communion of it Now this being our Judgment I humbly conceive we are acquitted from Schism in the Opinion of Mr. Chillingworth and ought to be so in the Judgement of that learned and judicious Bishop Saunderson who as I have been credibly informed being asked what he thought of the Subscription before mentioned said after he had read it and considered it I never subscribed in any other sense my self And that this Subscription might suffice in Equity and Conscience if the Supreme Authority should think fit my Lord Chancellor Bacon hath declared in his Considerations about Ecclesiastical Affairs tendred unto King James His words are these For Subscription it seemeth to be in the nature of a Confession and therefore more proper to bind in the Unity of Faith and to be urged rather for Articles of Doctrine than for Rites and Ceremonies and points of outward Government for howsoever politick Considerations and Reasons of State may require Uniformity yet Christian and Divine Grounds look chiefly upon Unity It is the Duty of all Christians to be zealous and to contend earnestly for the Unity of Faith and to labour with all their might with themselves and one another for unity of affections Luther's Motto becomes every good Christian In quo aliquid Christi video illum diligo That the most considerable Nonconformists are Sons of Peace and not Sons of the Coal may hence be argued That those who were Joynt-Commissioners for the Reformation of the Liturgy became humble and earnest Petitioners to their Fellow-Commissioners the Bishops and others their Assistants for peace That we are not generally such Boutefeu's and Incendiaries as we are charged to be may in part appear in this That we published no Answer for so long a time to two such angry and provoking Pieces as these And that little which is here done by way of Reflection is with so great moderation Doubtless if we had been utterly unable to have answered the Reason or Logick of these two Books we could not have easily failed of abundantly requiting the Author of them with Stories and Recriminations Were all the Irregularities and Impieties of Men of our own Coat though Canonical reckoned up and should we give our selves leave to look back thirty or forty years for matter of Accusation as the Author of the Friendly Debate sometimes doth we might fill whole Volumes with Errata's and might occasion the common Enemy of out Religion to triumph over and the common People to trample upon the English Ministry Had the Author we deal withal had like Charity with Constantine the Great or with King Charles the First of blessed memory he would rather have buried in silence the faults of the Ministry than to have exposed them whether real or imaginary to the Eye of the World to be beheld through a Multiplying and a Magnifying-glass as he doth Yea had he not come short of Mr. White the Centurist in his Charity he might have learnt of him not to have published a Second Part to blaze abroad the faults of his Brethren there being now no War to inflame him no Adversary by any Reply to provoke him The Non-conformists now outed being down on the ground down in the mire and yet perhaps neither so dirty or so much sullyed as were some formerly Sequestred there being neither Scandal nor Insufficiency so much as charged upon one of a thousand as any Reason or Cause of their Ejectment Had be used the like Candour towards the Non-conformists that Dr. Moulin doth towards the Romanists and which I believe he expects from us towards his own Party he would never have charged the faults and errors of a part upon the whole of a few upon all a very few excepted and so doing he might have spared wholly his Continuation and have much abridged his first Dialogue He needed not to have made so many blazes as he doth by so often firing men of straw of his own making nor so great a noise in the world by discharging so many great Guns against Castles in the Air of his own building But since he advanceth Reason so much in word upon all occasion we may wonder he hath made no more real use of it in his Discourse For say we might and think we can justifie it that his Words are more than his Matter his Rhetorick far beyond his Logick and therefore we choose rather that he should smite us with his Fist than with the Palms of his Hands I mean with his Logick rather than with his Rhetorick What Reason or Logick is in such a Discourse as this Mr. T. W. and Mr. W. B. have Printed such and such things therefore all or almost all the Non-conformists are so and so or Preach and Print thus and thus or else Mr. Lewes Hughes Mr. Viccars the two Mr. Bridges say or write thus Ergo this is the Way the Spirit and the Language of the whole Party Or one or two in a Kingdom or in the three Kingdoms and that too when the Kingdoms were all in a
Unity than the Romanists and yet in several Countries they have several Rites Customs and Priviledges and in England before the happy Reformation the Service was ad modum Sarum and ad modum Bangor different in divers Churches Quest Is it not necessary to appoint the same Vestures and Gestures for the Worship of God to avoid difference and confusion Answ There is no Gesture or Ceremony prescribed in the singing of Psalms and yet People generally are bare and reverend in that exercise The late Canons in 1640. leave Bowing towards the East of Altar indifferent and would not have those that do it to judge those that do it not nor those that do it not to judge those that do it Now what greater inconvenience would follow if the same moderation and liberty to practise differently were used as to the Cross Surplice and Kneeling at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper If there must be absolute and universal Uniformity in the Worship of God amonst the Worshippers then all must alike have their Faces one way must wear all Garments of the same fashion and colour In the late Times when the Liturgy and Ceremonies were disused there were not a quarter of those private Meetings that have been since The number of them that separated from the Publick Worship were very small in comparison I suppose not ten to an hundred The Author of the Debate I guess and hundreds if not thousands of Conformists did not hold themselves bound notwithstanding the Laws for Liturgy and Ceremonies to absent themselves from the then Publick Worship and assemble privately that they might uphold Uniformity in Forms of Prayer Rites and Ceremonies Whence we may reasonably conclude That they thought Gods Publick Worship might be carried on without Uniformity in these things And again That the omission of things required by Law is not judged so great a sin as is by them pretended Quest Did not Presbyterians decry all Separaration and refuse to tolerate Independents See Cont. p. 224. Answ The Presbyterians both old and modern are against Separation They deny that they separate from you for upon occasion they joyn with you in Ordinances and if you remove some things wherewith your Worship is clogg'd they would joyfully communicate constantly with you The present partial and temporary withdrawing as to some Acts of Worship is not to be charged with Schism If you hold forth communion with your Church as in the Apostles days with a Liturgy sufficiently corrected without Symbolical Ceremonies without such Oaths Declarations and Subscriptions they will come into your Bosom though you not onely cast them out of your Lap but thrust them out of your House and shut the Doors upon them As we justifie the Church of England from Schism notwithstanding our Separation from Rome so the Nonconformists will endeavour to justifie their withdrawings in some Acts and for a time only by reason of the terms of Communion imposed on them That they are for Reformation not Separation may be hence concluded That in a late project for Peace and Agreement this was one Proposition given in by the Presbyterians themselves That whosoever should be capable of any Employment should profess to hold Communion with the Church of England and to the uttermost of his power to promote the Peace and Happiness thereof And when there was a difference betwixt Presbyterians and their Brethren commonly called Independents formerly there was a Conference before a Committee of Parliament betwixt them in which the Presbyterians as I am credibly informed offered either to give or take that is to say They would take the Establishment and allow their Brethren of the Congregational-way a well-regulated Toleration or let their Brethren take the Establishment and allow the Presbyterians such a Toleration And one of the chief of them when the London-Ministers waited on his Majesty at the Hague when discourse was about Ecclesiastical Affairs earnestly moved his Majesty that he would please to think of a way to indulge them a Liberty though they should not be comprehended in the Publick Establishment as it was then hoped the Presbyterian would have been In brief the Presbyterians disclaim Separation they are willing to have Union and Communion with the Church of England upon Christian and friendly Terms And they desire the like Liberty and Toleration from the Bishops that they were willing and ready to have shewed to their Brethren of the Congregational Way Yea they would bless God and our Governours if they might have the like Favours and Liberties that Dr. Gunning Dr. Wild Dr. Hide and others the Now-Conformists had in former times Quest If the Presbyterians are willing to conform to a Liturgy and to this Liturgy when sufficiently corrected yet what hopes is there that ever there should be any Alteration or Reformation of it which will satisfie or please them so as to use it Answ Yes there is such a draught already made to the great content of the chief of the Presbyterians and this done by three Reverend persons all Conformists And which I hope may be produced when ever Authority shall please to command it Quest. Would it not be accounted a weak thing to yeild or condescend though never so little if this might be a means to cement and soder us together again Answ It was the prudence of the ancient Church to satisfie the Joannites who had kept Conventicles apart from the Church for thirty years being disgusted at the dishonour done to John Chrysostom their Bishop or Pastor and this the Church did by restoring his honour after he was dead Socrat. Eccles Hist. Quest Why should the Church of England remove the Ceremonies which she hath retained since the Reformation May she not thereby disgust and offend the Romanists to please the Nonconformists which they call Puritans rather than Protestants Answ These Ceremonies were at first retained and continued when others were cast out of the Church in hopes to bring the Papists to a compliance with our Church But Archbishop Usher as he that writes his Life informs us upon occasion declared his Judgement concerning them That experience of many years hath shewed that this condescention hath rather hardned them in their Error than brought them to a liking of our Religion this being their usual saying If our Flesh be not good why do you drink of our Broth If the Church stick close to the Ceremonies she is not like to gain our Adversaries the Romanists to our Communion if she lay aside the Ceremonies she may gain thousands and ten thousands of our Brethren to our Church again That they may do thus God grant that the same mind might be in all our Bishops that was in Christ Jesus the chief Shepherd and Bishop of our Souls that they may love and feed their Sheep and be ready to lay down their lives for their Sheep and then their Yoak will be easie and their Burden light Or that was in the blessed Apostle Paul on whom was the