4th For all the pretences of Infallibility in the Church of Rome they cannot decide the Controversies that are among their own Members 5th Both Popes and General Councils have contradicted one another and therefore neither of them can be infallible 6th The pretence of Infallibility in the Church of Rome is nothing but a device to uphold their Temporal Grandeur and Dominion Quest. 21. Why do you think the Church of Rome is in an Error in forbidding the reading of the Bible to the Common People Answ. 1. Because Christ commands all sorts of Men to read the Scriptures Joh. 5. 39. 2. The Berrhaeans are commended for searching the Scriptures Acts 17. 11. 3. The Fathers in the Primitive Church exhorted the People to the frequent reading of the Scriptures 4. St. Paul charges the Thessalonians to take care that his Epistle be read to all the holy Brethren 1 Thess. 5. 27. 5. In the Jewish Church every Family was to have the Law in their Houses and to teach it their Children diligently Deut. 6. 7. 6. The pretence of the Obscurity of the Scripture in many places is insignificant since the Scripture is plain enough in things necessary to Salvation 7. The Church of Rome in forbidding the Bible to the Laity discovers her fear and the weakness of her Cause least the People should see her Errors and forsake her Quest. 22. UUhy do not you believe that the Books call'd Apocrypha are Canonical Scripture Answ. 1. Because the Oracles of the Old Testament were delivered to the Jewish Church Rom. 3. 2. and these were not 2. The Christian Church receiv'd from the Jews no other Books of Canonical Scripture but what are own'd as such by the Church of England 3. The Apocrypha were not written by Men inspired by the Holy Ghost and what is Scripture must be by Inspiration 2 Tim. 3. 16. 4. Some of the Authors beg the Readers pardon for their Mistakes which is not the Language of the Holy Ghost 5. The Antient Councils have rejected these Apocrypha as not Canonical particularly the Council of Laodicea 6. In the Primitive Churches they read these Apocrypha only for the Instruction of Mens Manners but did not resolve their Faith into them no more do we Quest. 23. UUhy do you find fault with the Church of Rome for asserting that the Church of England once a Member of her Communion had no power to reform her self Answ. 1. Because every Church hath a natural right to shake off the Abuses and Corruptions which are contrary to the Word of God 2. It is God's Command to private Men not to suffer themselves to be deluded by the slight of Men and cunning Craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive and therefore much more is a National Church concern'd to do so 3. In vain was any Reformation hoped for from the Bishop and Clergy of the Roman Church 4. It 's the proper Office of the Bishops of a National Church to take notice what Errors creep into their Churches and oppose them 5. And that they have right to do so appears from the Examples the Church of Judah had in the times of Jehoshaphat or Hezekiah or Josiah 6. In throwing off the power of the Pope of Rome we did not throw off Obedience to a lawful Soveraign but Subjection to an Usurper 7. We did no more than what the Orthodox Churches did after the Arian Councils of Ariminum and Seleucia in setting up the Nicene Faith again which those powerful Councils had banish'd 8. We made no new Religion but restor'd the old and built no new House but only swept out of the old the Rubbish which made it unwholesom and uninhabitable The End An Account of the Conference betwixt a Jesuit of the Savoy and my Self the 2d of January Present Mr. Stephens on my side Mrs. Chamberlain and Mr. Chamberlain and the Book-binder about whom the Conference was held he having been six years of the Church of Rome but somewhat unsatisfied and Mr. Lamb. About Seven of the Clock at Night THE first thing Discoursed was about the Doctrine of Calvinists which the Jesuit said made God the Author of Sin I told him that there are several Expressions which if a favourable Construction be put upon them will appear to be otherwise Next he fell upon Luther who should say that no Man could be damned if he would but for his Infidelity I said it was true that God condemned no Man that professed himself a Christian but for his Infidelity The Jesuit asked whether if a Man committed Theft he may be call'd an Infidel I said he acted like an Infidel and in that Act was so because he acted contrary to his Belief Mr. Chamberlain putting in something about that place 1 Tim. 2. about one Mediator The Jesuit argued he wonderd we should talk of one Mediator when every Man that pray'd for the other was a Mediator I told him in a large Sense he might be called so but in the Controversie before us were meant Mediators which are religiously worshipped Here happened a great rambling Discourse about Faith As distinguished from all good Works but I told them that by Faith I did not mean the bare Assent to the Doctrine but a practical Belief as it takes in the whole Word of God and living according to it The Book-binder was gone to call Mrs. Chamberlain and coming again by this time The Jesuit said they were come to satisfie Persons under some Doubts and therefore must fall upon some more material Points and since we Protestants sent people to the Scripture it was necessary we should begin to talk of the Rule of Faith and therefore he desired to know how we knew the Scripture to be the Word of God and from whom we had received our Bible I told him we had received it from the Catholick Church whose Testimony was very considerable in this Case He ask'd hereupon when we went off from the Church From what Church we did immediately receive it I answered him both from the Western or Roman and from the Churches of the East However I told him I would fairly grant him that we had received it immediately from the Church of Rome and I desired him to make the best of it Here he asked how we could receive the true Bible from a corrupt Church I asked him whether I might not receive a Pearl from a Chimney Sweeper He said we looked upon them for Rogues and Rascals Whereupon I told him we give them no such Language However sinc he used these Names whether a Man might not receive a 100 l. in very good Money from Rogues and Rascals He then argued That we look'd upon the Church of Rome as a corrupt Church and how can we be sure that we have the true Bible since we cannot be sure that a corrupt Church had not corrupted it I told him that they confessed themselves they had not corrupted it and besides they could not corrupt it for the Cheat
would have been found out by the comparing of ancient and modern Copies He then asked again what we counted the Rule of Faith I told him the Scripture He asked whether with a true Interpretation or without it I told him the Scripture with true Interpretation He then replied how we should know the true Interpretation I told him things necessary to Salvation needed no great Interpretation and the words are deliver'd so plainly that any one that runs may Read it He then asked whether every Man was a true Interpreter of Scripture I said every Man had a Judgment of Discretion but there was no Question there were several Persons that might mis-interpret it but if a Man went this way to work read the Scripture pray for Illumination and go to it with a pure Intention he might understand things necessary and he could not err damnably and in things more difficult consult by his Guides He said this would establish every Man in his Religion and a Mahometan ought to be directed by his Guide and why must we follow the Guides of our Church and not the Guides of the Roman Church I told him that People bred and born and baptized in this Church had greater reason to consult their own Guides than others because they had greater Obligations to them Still he urged no Man could be ascertain'd of the true Interpretation of the Scripture without some Judge I desired him to name that Judge over and over but could not bring him to it I know not how the Discourse came in here about different Interpretations and I said the Writers of their Church differ'd in their Interpretation He said none of their Writers differ'd from one another in the Interpretation of places relating to Articles of Faith I asked him what he thought of Extreme Unction He said it was an Article of Faith Very well said I then I 'll prove that Cajetan interprets that place of St. James of another Unction and saith contrary to the Council of Trent that Extreme Unction cannot be proved from that place He said the Council of Trent did not denounce Anathema to him that should interpret that place of St. James of another Unction I then fetcht him down out of my Study the Council of Trent and shew'd him that Sess. 14. it did denounce Anathema to them that should not believe So then he said they laid not the strain upon that place but St. Peter and St. Paul had spoken of it too I challeng'd him to shew me any place in St. Paul or Peter that had spoken of this Unction He then turn'd it off and said he did not mean it of any express mention but only that the Apostles did not use to contradict themselves After this either the Jesuit or Mr. Stephens moved it that there might be another Meeting and that we should write down all I told him I agreed to it and accordingly we appointed Wednesday next the 4 th of January at Four a Clock in the Afternoon and so they departed the Jesuit and Mr. Lamb The Bookbinder and Mr. Chamberlain and his Mother and another young Woman And the Bookbinder and Mr. Stephens and my self and Chamb. and his Mother staid a while when I fell in discourse about Invocation of Saints and fetcht him down the Office of the Virgin Mary The Contempt of the Glories of the Virgin Mary and shew'd him that they did not only pray to Saints to pray for them but begg'd the same Blessings of them they did of God The Bookbinder said the Contemplations of the Glory of the Blessed Virgin was not allow'd of in their Church He said if they did more than pray to Saints to pray for them he did not righly understand his Church The End A DISSWASIVE FROM POPERY BEING A LETTER TO A LADY TO Preserve her from Apostacy from the Communion of the Church of ENGLAND LONDON Printed for W. Hinchman S. Keble and D. Brown 1697. A DISSWASIVE from Popery being a Letter to a Lady to preserve her from Apostacy from the Communion of the Church of England Madam AND are you indeed got into the only Catholick Church And are you sure the Men you have lately believed have not deceived you as you fancy we have done for tho' you may be so charitable as to think that we have not intentionally cozened you yet since you cannot suppose us to be both in the Right you must necessarily conclude that we have at least ignorantly abused and imposed upon you and did you ever rightly consider what a truly Catholick Church does mean Men of Sense and Reason always believed that a Church which holds the truly Catholick Faith is a true and sound Member of the Catholick Church and dares Malice it self say that we do not hold the Apostles the Nicene and Athanasius's Creed The Church of Rome her self confesses that these Creeds contain the truly Catholick Faith And most certainly when the Nicene Council was celebrated and in Athanasius's time that Church was counted a sound Member of the Catholick Church that held that Catholick Faith which is expressed in those Creeds and do we not hold that Faith Do we not stand up at it to express our Readiness to defend it And what have we done that we must not be counted a Catholick Church Is it because we will not receive things which the Church of Rome hath since added to the Catholick Faith Is it because we will not admit of the Doctrines which that Church was first induced to believe by the Darkness and Ignorance of the Ages it lived in and at last loath to part withal for fear they should be thought to have been so long in an Error Is it because we will not yield to things which we apprehend to be directly against the Word of God and destructive to that Catholick Faith the Christian World hath professed in all Ages Is it because we will not deceive the People of the Cup in the Blessed Sacrament which Christ intended as a mighty comfort to them Is it because we will not believe the Miracle of Transubstantiation against four of our Senses and Reason and Scripture to boot Is it because we will not suffer the Worship of God or that which is very like it to be given to Creatures because of the very appearance of the evil of Idolatry which we are commanded to shun as much as Idolatry it self Is it because we will not believe a Purgatory Fire which cleanseth little but Peoples Purses of their Money Is it because we will not indulge the Pride and Arrogance of a Man at Rome who having first wheedled the Christian Princes out of their Means and Power hath at last made that Power and Riches hereditary to his Successors under a pretence of a Legacy from Christ Is it because we will not believe contrary to the Apostles Rule that publick Prayers which are intended for the benefit and understanding of the Multitude must be said in a Tongue unknown to the
this outward Pomp they make not the least sign of the truth of their Church not remembring that if this be a good sign the idolatrous People in Japan and China whose Temples are infinitely more shining and glorious will have a better Title to the true Church than they I must confess that in Policy and Worldly Craft and Cunning the Church of Rome exceeds ours for they have not only turn'd the Spiritual Worship of the Gospel into a Sensual Service into outward Religious Formalities a thing strangely pleasing to flesh and blood but they have Shooes that will fit all sorts of Feet great and small and have Remedies for all Distempers and you may go to Heaven in that Church either through the straight way or through the broad which you please they can fit the Melancholy Person and the Jovial they have Monasteries and Nunneries and Severities to content the one and know how to allow greater liberty to the other they can either send a Man to Happiness through a tedious task of Mortification if he likes that method best or help him thither by a quicker dispatch by Confession Attrition and Absolution upon a Death-bed when the Man can hold Sin and the World no longer Live or die you cannot do amiss in that Church for living you may be forgiven and after Death you may be pray'd out of Purgatory sooner or later according as you will spend Money upon Masses for Gold doth strangely quicken these Supplications Such a Church Madam you have espoufed and divorced your self from one that prefers the Wisdom of God and of the Gospel before the Wisdom of the Flesh and glories in dealing plainly and honestly with all Men that keeps close to the Scriptures and yet is not against those pious Customes of Antiquity which are not contradictory to the Scriptures that generously maintains the Prerogative of God and gives no other Honour to Saints and Angels but what may consist with the Glory of her Creator that hath made no new Articles of Faith but keeps to the old and thinks it Rebellion against God to enjoin things as necessary to Salvation which God never made so that urges the strictest Life and encourages nothing but what may promote true Piety and Devotion that hath no more Ceremonies but what are decent and labours to free Religion at once from Slovenliness and Superstition that secures the Right of Soveraign Princes and teaches her Children to live like good Subjects and good Christians and though it be her misfortune that too many of her pretended Members live like Enemies of Christianity yet that 's not long of her Doctrines and Constitutions but long of the Stubbornness of Men who will not be reform'd by her Precepts As no Man blames Christ or his Apostles because Judas was a Hypocrite or because Simon Magus profess'd their Religion so they betray great Ignorance and Simplicity that for the monstrous Impieties of many that profess themselves Members of our Assemblies despise and slight our Church which in her Principles is most averse from all such practices a Church which as for mine own particular I have deliberately and premeditately embraced and chosen so I hope I shall never be so much for saken of God or of my Reason as to quit it to become a Papist I have not been altogether a careless Observer of the several Christian Churches dispers'd through the World Desire of mine own Salvation hath made me take particular notice what Corruption there is in them and what Affinity they have with the Primitive Professors of Christianity And I must freely confess upon a serious Examination of the Scripture and the Fathers of the three first Centuries after Christ that from my Heart I think there is no Church this day in all the Christian World be it Eastern or Western that in her Principles and Constitutions bears so much of the Image of the truly Primitive Church or comes so near it as the Church of England a Church which as your Fore-fathers had courage to burn for so I verily believe that he understands not her Innocent Designs and excellent Rules that dares not die a Martyr in her cause Once more your Faithful Friend to serve you A. Horneck FINIS i. e. Contradictions In the New Confession of Faith compiled and published by Pope Pius IV. a little above a hundred years ago Under one kind only