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england_n christian_a church_n communion_n 2,479 5 8.9287 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A19142 A fresh suit against human ceremonies in God's vvorship. Or a triplication unto. D. Burgesse his rejoinder for D. Morton The first part Ames, William, 1576-1633. 1633 (1633) STC 555; ESTC S100154 485,880 929

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national_a church_n answ_o to_o the_o 60.61.62_o of_o the_o preface_n of_o the_o faithful_a congregation_n wherein_o we_o be_v bear_v baptize_v and_o nourish_v up_o in_o faith_n there_o be_v no_o quaestion_n make_v but_o they_o be_v our_o love_a and_o belove_a mother_n yet_o much_o quaestion_n arise_v concern_v that_o which_o the_o rej._n teach_v viz._n 6●_n pag._n ●0_n 6●_n that_o all_o those_o church_n together_o have_v one_o mother_n and_o so_o we_o have_v a_o grandmother_n that_o be_v the_o church_n of_o england_n consider_v as_o one_o church_n and_o that_o by_o way_n of_o representation_n as_o the_o convocation_n house_n 2._o by_o way_n of_o association_n and_o combination_n into_o one_o profession_n worship_n and_o discipline_n which_o include_v the_o order_n and_o officer_n that_o be_v the_o hierarchye_a pertain_v thereunto_o but_o not_o by_o any_o other_o collective_a consideration_n 1._o i_o never_o read_v either_o in_o scripture_n or_o in_o any_o orthodox_n writer_n of_o a_o visible_a particular_a church_n either_o grandmother_n of_o christian_n or_o mother_n of_o other_o church_n if_o the_o rej._n have_v he_o shall_v do_v well_o to_o inform_v we_o where_o we_o may_v find_v this_o doctrine_n explain_v 2._o i_o will_v willing_o know_v whether_o christian_n &_o christian_a church_n also_o be_v not_o in_o england_n before_o this_o great_a grandmother_n i_o think_v the_o rej._n will_v not_o deny_v it_o nor_o yet_o fly_v for_o succour_n to_o his_o physician_n who_o have_v find_v out_o a_o herb_n which_o be_v call_v of_o they_o son_n before_o the_o father_n patrem_fw-la filius_fw-la ant●_n patrem_fw-la to_o justifye_v his_o intention_n of_o daughter_n before_o the_o mother_n matrem_fw-la filia_fw-la ant●_n matrem_fw-la he_o must_v confess_v that_o this_o grandmoth_a be_v only_o a_o mother_n in_o law_n church_n the_o nature_n of_o a_o representative_a church_n and_o that_o law_n also_o to_o be_v man_n not_o go_n 3._o all_o the_o church_n of_o england_n may_v as_o well_o be_v consider_v as_o one_o in_o unity_n of_o profession_n without_o any_o new_a motherhood_n as_o all_o the_o latin_a school_n of_o england_n one_o in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o same_o grammar_n or_o all_o gallenicall_a or_o platonical_a school_n one_o in_o their_o kind_n 4._o a_o representative_a mother_n be_v the_o image_n of_o a_o mother_n and_o a_o image_n with_o command_v authority_n in_o religion_n without_o god_n command_n 〈◊〉_d quod_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la si●is_fw-la repraesentativa_fw-la libenter_fw-la cred●mus_fw-la vera_fw-la enim_fw-la non_fw-la estu_fw-ge sed_fw-la ●sten_v a●te_fw-la q●aso_fw-it ●●de_fw-it ●or●●ec_fw-la nomen_fw-la qui_fw-la hoc_fw-la nomint●●_n 〈◊〉_d quis_fw-la ●acund●_fw-la &_o ce●spirandi_fw-la ●obis_fw-la potestatem_fw-la dedit_fw-la q●is_fw-la conde●di_fw-la canon_n &_o decreta_fw-la verbo_fw-la des_fw-mi dis●●●mi●i●_n vobi●tus_fw-la fecit_fw-la qui●_n ut_fw-la ista_fw-la hume●is_fw-la hominum_fw-la impe●eretiu_fw-la permis●t_fw-la q●is_fw-la consitentia_fw-la ut_fw-la si●_n gravareit●_n vebis_fw-la persw_n sit_v ut_fw-la dic●●etis_fw-la b●num_fw-la malum_fw-la malum_fw-la benumb_v qu●●_n iussit_fw-la 〈…〉_o ecclesia_n 〈◊〉_d q●a_fw-la nihil_fw-la 〈◊〉_d all_o et_fw-la sed_fw-la picta_fw-la &_o ce●i●la_fw-la ●mnia_fw-la scan●n_a est●_n ecclesia_fw-la ri●a_fw-la s●●sa_fw-la christo_fw-la ●r●ua_fw-la qua_fw-la se●a_fw-la ve●it_fw-la 〈◊〉_d &_o 〈◊〉_d dei_fw-la 〈◊〉_d be_v a_o idol_n it_o be_v well_o therefore_o to_o this_o purpose_n say_v of_o zwinglius_fw-la explan_n arti_fw-la 8._o that_o you_o be_v a_o representative_a church_n we_o willing_o believe_v for_o you_o be_v not_o the_o true_a church_n but_o show_v i_o beseech_v you_o whence_o you_o have_v this_o name_n who_o style_v you_o with_o this_o title_n who_o give_v you_o power_n of_o meeting_n and_o combyne_v together_o who_o grant_v you_o authority_n of_o coin_v decree_n and_o canon_n differ_v from_o the_o word_n of_o god_n who_o suffer_v you_o to_o impose_v these_o upon_o man_n who_o persuade_v you_o thus_o to_o burden_n conscience_n who_o enjoin_v you_o to_o call_v evil_a good_a and_o
divine_a by_o institution_n no_o man_n can_v conclude_v thus_o we_o must_v every_o where_o have_v some_o garment_n and_o therefore_o in_o england_n a_o surplice_n we_o must_v always_o in_o baptism_n have_v some_o admonition_n to_o profess_v the_o faith_n and_o therefore_o in_o england_n a_o crosse._n we_o must_v use_v reverend_a gesture_n in_o receive_v the_o holy_a communion_n and_o therefore_o in_o england_n we_o must_v kneel_v in_o the_o act_n of_o receive_v but_o we_o may_v conclude_v thus_o we_o must_v have_v a_o fit_a place_n to_o meet_v in_o and_o this_o place_n be_v general_o fit_a for_o our_o congregation_n therefore_o we_o must_v have_v this_o we_o must_v have_v a_o convenient_a time_n to_o meet_v in_o and_o this_o hour_n be_v general_o most_o convenient_a for_o our_o congregation_n therefore_o this_o the_o monk_n may_v as_o well_o conclude_v we_o must_v have_v some_o garment_n therefore_o we_o must_v in_o one_o order_n have_v black_a in_o another_o white_z in_o a_o three_o black_a over_o white_a or_o white_a over_o black_a in_o a_o four_o gray_a a_o five_o party_n colour_v in_o some_o all_o woollen_a in_o some_o all_o linen_n &c._n &c._n ad_fw-la infinitum_fw-la as_o well_o i_o say_v every_o whit_n as_o the_o rejoynder_n can_v conclude_v from_o a_o garment_n to_o a_o surplice_n from_o admonition_n to_o the_o sign_n of_o a_o cross_n or_o from_o reverence_n in_o a_o table-gesture_n to_o kneel_v to_o bellarmine_n the_o rejoynder_n answer_v that_o he_o speak_v of_o natural_a ceremony_n which_o be_v true_a but_o be_v not_o these_o contain_v under_o the_o generality_n of_o the_o defendant_n his_o word_n there_o be_v no_o gesture_n or_o circumstance_n of_o worship_n which_o have_v not_o be_v abuse_v and_o as_o for_o other_o circumstance_n which_o be_v call_v civil_a many_o of_o they_o admit_v only_o of_o such_o variety_n as_o nature_n do_v lead_v unto_o by_o occasion_n of_o this_o or_o that_o determination_n common_a to_o religion_n with_o other_o affair_n 9_o that_o our_o ceremony_n be_v not_o individual_o or_o singular_o the_o same_o which_o papist_n have_v solemn_o abuse_v the_o reply_o say_v it_o be_v no_o marvel_n because_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o carry_v the_o same_o particular_a sign_n of_o the_o cross_n from_o the_o fonte_fw-la to_o the_o church_n door_n or_o to_o keep_v it_o be_v so_o long_o as_o it_o be_v in_o make_v that_o be_v therefore_o no_o great_a mystery_n the_o rejoynder_n answer_v nothing_o to_o this_o save_v only_o that_o he_o descant_v upon_o the_o term_n mystery_n 10._o it_o be_v add_v as_o a_o overplus_n not_o for_o necessity_n of_o the_o argument_n that_o as_o it_o seem_v papist_n do_v give_v divine_a honour_n unto_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n as_o it_o be_v use_v among_o we_o because_o they_o ascribe_v divine_a operation_n un●o_v it_o as_o it_o be_v use_v by_o jew_n heathen_n and_o julian_n the_o apostata_fw-la bell_n the_o effect_n sacram._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 31._o and_o they_o do_v not_o account_v we_o worse_o than_o they_o the_o rejoynder_n oppose_v 1._o that_o the_o papist_n honour_v not_o the_o lord_n supper_n in_o our_o hand_n the_o difference_n be_v that_o unto_o that_o sacrament_n they_o require_v a_o right-ordained_n priest_n but_o not_o so_o to_o the_o crosse._n 2._o he_o answer_v that_o they_o ascribe_v this_o divine_a operation_n unto_o it_o only_o when_o there_o be_v a_o intention_n of_o such_o a_o operation_n in_o he_o that_o make_v the_o crosse._n be_v it_o so_o the_o patroness_n of_o our_o cross_n defend_v that_o use_n which_o the_o cross_n have_v among_o the_o father_n who_o allow_v that_o intention_n as_o bellarmine_n in_o the_o place_n now_o cite_v show_v and_o how_o shall_v the_o inward_a intention_n of_o they_o be_v discern_v this_o at_o the_o least_o seem_v to_o follow_v that_o as_o for_o uncertainty_n of_o the_o priest_n intention_n divers_a papist_n worship_v the_o host_n only_o upon_o condition_n if_o it_o be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n by_o the_o priest_n intention_n so_o they_o must_v ascribe_v divine_a honour_n unto_o our_o cross_n upon_o the_o like_a condition_n of_o such_o a_o intention_n as_o be_v in_o the_o father_n 11._o about_o material_a formal_a sameness_n the_o replier_n refuse_v to_o dispute_v that_o be_v say_v the_o rejoynder_n because_o if_o he_o have_v he_o must_v either_o have_v oppose_v all_o learning_n and_o common_a sense_n or_o else_o have_v yield_v to_o the_o defendant_n that_o change_n of_o essential_a form_n make_v the_o same_o material_a to_o become_v another_o thing_n as_o in_o the_o change_n of_o water_n into_o wine_n but_o 1._o with_o consent_n of_o all_o common_a sense_n we_o may_v say_v that_o our_o cross_n differ_v not_o so_o from_o the_o popish_a cross_n as_o the_o wine_n do_v from_o water_n joh._n 2._o 2._o it_o be_v no_o opposition_n to_o all_o learning_n whatsoever_o aristole_n teach_v if_o one_o shall_v say_v that_o not_o the_o form_n only_o but_o also_o the_o matter_n be_v in_o a_o great_a part_n change_v when_o water_n be_v turn_v into_o wine_n 3._o opinion_n and_o intention_n be_v not_o the_o essential_a form_n of_o a_o ceremonial_a crosse._n for_o one_o and_o the_o same_o ceremonial_a cross_n be_v use_v by_o papist_n to_o divers_a intention_n as_o to_o represent_v a_o mystery_n to_o cure_v disease_n to_o drive_v away_o devil_n etc._n etc._n bellarmine_n in_o the_o forecited_n place_n and_o opinion_n belong_v to_o the_o efficient_a or_o make_v cause_n not_o to_o the_o form_n 4._o the_o very_a make_n of_o a_o cross_n in_o such_o a_o manner_n or_o with_o such_o circumstance_n as_o put_v upon_o it_o a_o relation_n to_o religion_n make_v both_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o that_o ceremony_n and_o so_o after_o idolatrous_o abuse_v carry_v with_o it_o at_o least_o a_o show_n of_o a_o idolatrous_a ceremony_n but_o this_o show_v the_o rej._n refer_v unto_o the_o five_o chapter_n and_o here_o oppose_v only_o that_o likeness_n and_o sameness_n be_v not_o one_o which_o be_v true_a of_o individual_a or_o singular_a sameness_n not_o otherwise_o for_o those_o thing_n be_v like_o which_o have_v one_o and_o the_o same_o quality_n but_o he_o himself_o will_v not_o say_v that_o only_o the_o same_o individual_a or_o particular_a ceremony_n which_o idolater_n abuse_v be_v forbid_v to_o we_o he_o have_v hitherto_o in_o all_o this_o section_n decline_v the_o defence_n of_o that_o absurdity_n this_o quidity_n therefore_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n 12._o it_o be_v add_v by_o the_o reply_o that_o we_o have_v no_o intention_n or_o opinion_n in_o the_o use_n of_o the_o cross_n but_o the_o papist_n have_v the_o same_o though_o they_o have_v other_o more_o and_o therefore_o there_o be_v some_o formal_a sameness_n in_o their_o cross_n and_o we_o to_o this_o the_o rejoynd_a in_o many_o word_n answer_v nothing_o but_o that_o this_o reply_n stifle_v itself_o because_o if_o we_o have_v not_o all_o the_o same_o opinion_n which_o they_o have_v than_o they_o have_v not_o the_o same_o with_o we_o but_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v of_o positive_a opinion_n concern_v the_o cross_n itself_o for_o we_o may_v want_v some_o of_o their_o opinion_n and_o yet_o they_o have_v all_o that_o we_o have_v the_o same_o do_v not_o he_o that_o know_v most_o of_o this_o or_o that_o know_v the_o same_o thing_n with_o he_o that_o know_v little_a though_o he_o know_v more_o 13._o another_o odd_a reason_n be_v frame_v by_o the_o repl._n thus_o if_o this_o do_v make_v a_o ceremony_n not_o the_o same_o that_o man_n have_v not_o altogether_o the_o same_o opinion_n of_o it_o then_o among_o the_o papist_n there_o be_v as_o many_o kind_n of_o ceremony_n cross_n surplice_n as_o there_o be_v diversity_n of_o opinion_n about_o their_o nature_n and_o use_n which_o no_o man_n will_v say_v yes_o say_v the_o the_o rejoynder_n i_o will_v say_v it_o of_o ceremony_n and_o he_o that_o shall_v deny_v this_o must_v lay_v aside_o both_o learning_n and_o conscience_n not_o know_v what_o to_o say_v but_o he_o be_v too_o too_o confident_a upon_o the_o ground_n which_o he_o be_v drive_v to_o by_o force_n of_o a_o contrary_a wind_n for_o without_o lay_v aside_o of_o learning_n and_o conscience_n we_o may_v thus_o argue_v if_o this_o be_v so_o than_o all_o human_a ceremony_n use_v among_o the_o papist_n and_o bring_v in_o as_o hitherto_o all_o have_v use_v to_o speak_v by_o pope_n be_v not_o popish_a for_o they_o may_v be_v this_o or_o that_o hedge-priest_n ceremony_n who_o have_v add_v his_o opinion_n and_o institution_n unto_o they_o 2._o the_o pope_n by_o the_o same_o reason_n can_v know_v when_o his_o ceremony_n ar●_n observe_v or_o omit_v because_o he_o can_v know_v all_o opinion_n and_o intention_n of_o man_n and_o the_o like_a reason_n hold_v with_o we_o our_o church_n must_v inquire_v into_o the_o opinion_n and_o intention_n
which_o be_v against_o popish_a recusancie_n of_o our_o communion-booke_n and_o not_o against_o refusal_n of_o some_o few_o ceremony_n contain_v therein_o i_o speak_v now_o of_o the_o statute_n law_n not_o of_o lawless_a canon_n or_o what_o if_o we_o shall_v stand_v upon_o that_o interpretation_n which_o fetch_v the_o obligation_n from_o the_o weight_n of_o the_o matter_n impose_v which_o in_o our_o ceremony_n be_v very_o little_a some_o of_o these_o i_o be_o ●ure_a the_o bishop_n must_v fly_v if_o they_o will_v defend_v their_o disuse_n of_o the_o crosier_n slaffe_n which_o they_o be_v bind_v by_o our_o law_n as_o well_o to_o use_v as_o the_o minister_n be_v surpluss_n but_o all_o this_o be_v needless_a because_o there_o can_v be_v no_o contempt_n in_o a_o conscionable_a forbearance_n of_o unlawful_a imposition_n such_o as_o the_o ceremony_n be_v sufficient_o prove_v to_o be_v sect_n xii_o here_o certain_a divine_n be_v bring_v in_o witness_v 1._o that_o superstition_n do_v deprive_v man_n of_o christian_a liberty_n which_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o take_v their_o testimony_n as_o make_v against_o our_o ceremony_n because_o as_o i_o have_v former_o show_v some_o of_o these_o superstitious_a opinion_n be_v inseparable_a from_o the_o impose_v and_o use_v of_o they_o 2._o that_o christian_a liberty_n do_v not_o consist_v in_o the_o use_n or_o disuse_n of_o thing_n indifferent_a which_o we_o also_o willing_o grant_v but_o i_o will_v have_v the_o defendant_n remember_v that_o all_o freedom_n be_v not_o in_o the_o mind_n &_o conscience_n for_o where_o the_o mind_n be_v free_a the_o body_n may_v be_v bind_v else_o christian_n shall_v not_o taste_v so_o much_o of_o this_o world_n misery_n as_o they_o do_v now_o christ_n have_v leave_v unto_o we_o not_o only_o a_o inward_a liberty_n of_o mind_n and_o conscience_n but_o also_o a_o outward_a freedom_n of_o our_o body_n and_o outward_a man_n from_o such_o bodily_a rite_n in_o his_o worship_n as_o have_v not_o his_o stamp_n upon_o they_o and_o his_o spirit_n and_o blessing_n promise_v unto_o they_o of_o this_o the_o defendant_n say_v nothing_o at_o all_o sect._n xiii_o xiiii_o concern_v the_o profession_n of_o our_o church_n so_o often_o bring_v in_o enough_o have_v be_v say_v before_o now_o it_o suffice_v to_o answer_v that_o no_o profession_n whatsoever_o can_v make_v human_a significant_a ceremony_n in_o god_n worship_n agree_v with_o christian_a liberty_n as_o for_o superstition_n which_o the_o defendant_n do_v now_o the_o second_o time_n most_o ridiculous_o object_v i_o have_v answer_v in_o the_o begin_n of_o this_o confutation_n now_o only_o i_o note_v 1._o how_o loose_o he_o describe_v that_o superstition_n which_o he_o call_v affirmative_a as_o if_o no_o man_n can_v use_v any_o thing_n superstitious_o except_o he_o do_v hold_v that_o without_o it_o the_o faith_n of_o christianity_n or_o the_o true_a worship_n of_o god_n can_v not_o possible_o consist_v never_o be_v there_o such_o a_o description_n give_v by_o any_o man_n that_o consider_v what_o he_o say_v 2._o how_o manful_o he_o conclude_v our_o negative_a superstition_n upon_o this_o ground_n that_o christ_n have_v leave_v these_o ceremony_n free_a which_o be_v the_o main_a quaestion_n betwixt_o he_o and_o we_o 3._o how_o he_o misreporteth_a our_o opinion_n in_o say_v absolute_o that_o we_o hold_v a_o surplice_n to_o have_v unholinesse_n and_o pollution_n in_o it_o whereas_o we_o hold_v that_o it_o be_v only_o make_v more_o unfit_a for_o god_n service_n than_o it_o be_v before_o through_o idolatrous_a abuse_n but_o yet_o unto_o other_o use_v it_o may_v be_v apply_v 4._o that_o in_o stead_n of_o scripture_n he_o bring_v forth_o the_o universal_a practice_n of_o man_n in_o the_o church_n which_o yet_o have_v be_v former_o also_o refute_v 5._o that_o he_o can_v find_v no_o divine_a that_o call_v oppose_v of_o ceremony_n superstition_n but_o only_o m._n calvin_n in_o one_o place_n speak_v rhetorical_o as_o he_o use_v to_o do_v and_o not_o intend_v any_o definition_n or_o distribution_n of_o that_o vice_n 6._o how_o he_o corrupt_v p._n martyr_n word_n to_o have_v some_o colour_n for_o a_o new_a accusation_n p._n martyr_n take_v there_o upon_o he_o the_o person_n of_o a_o adversary_n unto_o hoopers_n opinion_n with_o who_o notwithstanding_o afterward_o he_o consent_v and_o recall_v the_o counsel_n which_o then_o he_o give_v as_o appear_v pag._n 1125._o say_v that_o if_o we_o shall_v refuse_v all_o thing_n that_o the_o papist_n use_v we_o shall_v bring_v the_o church_n into_o servitude_n which_o assertion_n be_v most_o true_a because_o the_o papist_n abuse_v many_o necessary_a thing_n even_o christ_n own_o ordinance_n the_o observe_v of_o which_o be_v liberty_n now_o the_o def._n will_v have_v that_o precise_o understand_v and_o that_o in_o the_o rigour_n of_o every_o word_n concern_v the_o surplice_n i_o have_v here_o subjoin_v apart_o a_o epistle_n of_o zanchius_n who_o otherways_o be_v somewhat_o 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