Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	book_n	church_n	time_n	2,893	5	3.6141	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A56660	A friendly debate betwixt two neighbours, the one a conformist, the other a non-conformist about several weighty matters / published for the benefit of this city, by a lover of it, and of pure religion.; Friendly debate between a conformist and a non-conformist	Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707.; Wild, Robert, 1609-1679.	1668 (1668)	Wing P798; ESTC R41393	117,976	250

a Separation and one thing more desire to learn of them which is whether those things that any of them have suffered be not the Effect and Punishment of their separation and not the Cause of it As for any Restraints the Law hath laid upon their Liberty they are nothing comparable to those that were laid on us when they were in Power and yet they will take it ill if they should be called Persecutors For if you look into an Ordinance of Parliament of 11. August 1645. for putting in execution the Directory you will find these words That if any person or persons whatsoever shall at any time or times hereafter use or cause the aforesaid Book of Common-Prayer to be used in any Church Chappel or publick place of Worship or in any private place or Family within the Kingdom of England or the Dominion of Wales or Port and ●own of Berwick every such person so offending ●herein shall for the first offence pay the sum ●f five pounds of lawful English money for the second offence ten pounds and for the third shall suffer one whole year Imprisonment without Bail or Mainprise Can you name me any Law now extant so severe and cruel as this was Do we abridge the poorest Tradesman so much of his liberty as then they would have abridg'd all the Nobles in the Land nay for any thing I see the KING himself at least his Family which were forbid the use of Common-Prayer under such great Penalties Are you not all allow'd to worship God just as you please your selves in your own Families Nay may not some of your Neighbours joyn with you if you and they be so minded For shame do not complain of Persecution when you are so kindly used who endeavoured in such a manner to oppress others And blush to think that you should separate upon this account which yet is all that you can have the face to pretend to excuse the Schism you have made The Common-Prayer you see was never imposed with such rigor as your Directory was And whereas you now take what liberty you list to preach and Write and print what you think good against the Common-Prayer it was then ordain'd that none should do so against the Directory or any thing contain'd therein which is a great deal more and in case any man was so bold he was to forfeit such a sum of money as should be thought fit to be imposed on him by those before whom he had his Trial provided it was not less than five pounds nor more than fifty Who should try him no body knew but he was sure to meet with little favour if the Directory-men met with him and were to handle him who would tolerate no Dissenters from them And their reason is given in the London Ministers Letter to the Assembly because they were bound by the Covenant to extirpate all Scism and to indeavour the Lord should be one and his Name one in the Three Kingdoms i. e. that all should subscribe to the Directory And there is another thing which to me seems something hard I am sure you ought to judg it so viz. an Ordinance of 2. June 1646. requiring that all people who were come to reside in the Parliament-Quarters should take the National League and Covenant and the Negative Oath notwithstanding any Articles that had been made by the Souldiery Why should you complain of the late Oxford Act as it is commonly called who could endure heretofore that men should be used so severely Compare that and this Ordinance together and tell me which of them is most moderate that which banished men out of many Counties or that which only prohibits their near habitation to a Town or two that which made void the promises which their own Officers had made or that which was against no ingagements at all I wish you would consider these things with a great many more of like nature for though your prejudices are strong I hope sometime they may serve to convince you And the mention of the Covenant just now brings a considerable thing to my mind which if it would not be tedious I would willingly propound and desire you to enquire about it N. C. I pray say on for your discourse begins to be pleasant to me C. I wish you would ask your Ministers why they themselves heretofore not onely approved of certain Ceremonies in the Worship of God but also were well pleased they should be enjoyn'd and yet now cry out upon our Ceremonies or at least would have them left at liberty N. C. What Ceremonies and Worship do you mean C. Was not the taking of the Solemn League and Covenant a piece of Religion N. C. Yes it was an Oath C. Read then an Ordinance of 2. Febr. 1643. ☜ and you will find it is ordain'd among other things that during the time that the Minister read the whole Covenant to the people the whole Congregation should be uncovered There is one Ceremony which now you will by no means indure should be imposed on you at the hearing of Sermons Then at the end of the Reading it they appoint that all shall take it standing There is another Ceremony And lastly that they should lift up their right hand bare That 's another if not two Ceremonies more For they enjoyn them to lift up the right Hand not the left and that it should be bare not covered with a Glove And this very Ordinance touching the Manner of the taking the Covenant they desired might be confirm'd by Act of Parliament as you may see in the Propositions sent to his Majesty at Newcastle July 11. 1646. Pray tell me if you can or else make enquiry why they did not leave men to their way and manner of doing this Religious Act seeing they would have no body tied to a Posture now in the Worship of God N. C. I will enquire For I know no reason of it C. If you please ask them another thing which is why they do not take their own Advice which they give about the Covenant For if they would the Covenant need not keep them from doing that which otherwise many of them profess they could do N. C. You must be at the pains to interpret your self for I know not what you intend C. The Parliament in the Ordinance now mentioned desire the Assembly of Divines to prepare an Exhortation for the better taking of the Covenant which should be read together with it Now in that Exhortation which was voted to be printed Febr. 9. 1643. the Assembly intreat the Episcopal Clergy who said they could not take the Covenant because it was against their former Oaths to consider this which is the thing I would have them consider now That if any Oath be found into which any Minister or others have entred not warranted by the Law of God and the Land in this Case they must teach themselves and others that such Oaths call for Repentance not Pertinacy

use of it N. C. Some think it is a sufficient cause to separate in that there are such sinful mixtures tolerated among you and that your Congregations are miscellaneous Companies of all Gatherings and all sorts are admitted even to Sacramental Communion C. That 's the very Objection which your Ministers and Elders saw framed against them by the Separatists And what they answer to them we return to you First That this Charge is not true the Rule of the Church of England being as full and strict for Church-Members that shall come to Communion as that of the Assembly there cited pag. 133. which is this That they must be visible Sainst such as being of age do profess Faith in Christ and obedience to Christ according to the Rules of Faith aud Life taught by Christ and his appostles Secondly Suppose there were some sinful Mixtures say they at our Sacraments yet we conceive this is not a sufficient ground of a Negative much less of a Positive Separation The Learned Author forementioned tells us that Corruption in Manners crept into a Church is not a sufficient cause of Separation from it This he proves from Math. 23.2 3. and he adds also this Reason for it Because in what Church soever there is Purity of Doctrine there God hath his Church though overwhelm'd with Scandals And therefore whosoever separates from such an Assembly separates from the place where God hath his Church which is rash and unwarrantable The Church of Corinth had such a profane Mixture at their Sacrament as we believe few if any of our Congregations can be charged withal and yet the Apostle doth not perswade the Godly party to separate much less to gather a Church out of a Church N. C. What do you tell me of the Doctrine of a Forreign Divine C. They have made it theirs by approving what he says in their Book And besides they tell you there were many Godly and Learned Non-conformists of the last Age that were perswaded in their Conscience they could not hold Communion with the Church of England in receiving the Sacrament kneeling without Sin yet did they not separate from her Indeed in that particular act they withdrew but yet so as that they held Communion with her in the rest being far from a Negative much more from a Positive Separation from her Nay some of them mind the words even then when our Churches were full of sinful Mixtures with great Zeal and Learning defended them so far as to write against those that did separate from them who these Good and Learned men were they tell you in the Margin Mr. Cartwright Mr. Dod Mr. Hildersham Mr. Bradshaw Mr. Ball. N. C. Then we shall communicate with men in their sin● and we must not be led to that by the greatest Examples C. To prevent that they will advise you that if any Brother offend you you are not to separate from him for this is not the way to gain but to destroy his Soul but to tell him of it privately and in an orderly way to bring it to the Church And when you have done your Duty you have freed your Soul and may safely and comfortably communicate in that Church without Sin N. C. I perceive you are read in our Writers And trely you have now told me so much from them that I shall not have so hard an opinion of you as I had before And I hope this will preserve me from being guilty of the sin of Schism because the Nature of that consists in an open breach of Christian Love C. This will not serve your turn but you must come and joyn in Communion with us again For they tell you that as he who denies a Fundamental Article of the Faith is guilty of Heresie though he add not Obstinacy thereto to make him an Heretick So he that doth unwarrantably separate from the true Church is truly guilty of Schism though he add not Uncharitableness thereunto to denominate him a compleat Schismatick You may read the words if you will pag. 137. And afterward they tell you that to make a Rupture in the Body of Christ and to divide Church from Church and to set up Church against Church and to gather Churches out of true Churches and because we differ in some things therefore to hold Church-Communion in nothing this we think hath no warrant out of the word of God and will introduce all manner of confusion in Churches and Families and not onely disturb but in a little time destroy the power of Godliness Purity of Religion Peace of Christians and set open a wide Gap to bring in Atheism Popery Heresie and all manner of wickedness Thus they And how fast all this is a doing by your means who now will have no Communion with us in any thing because we differ in some things is apparent to all the world For the love of God and of the Church nay of your own Families consider of it in time and repent that so they may not be brought to utter Confusion but the Gap may be stopt which you have opened too wide already to Atheism Irreligion and all the rest of the Wickedness which comes powring in it self upon us Do not continue that Separation any longer which you have rashly begun lest you be found guilty of that very thing your selves which you condemned so much in others and profess is by all good men to be abhorred Read what I have now said over and over again and seriously lay it to heart lest your own Books be opened at the day of Judgement and Sentence be pronounced against you out of them Nay desire your Ministers to read it and to expound the reason to you why they should ssparate now more than Mr. Dod Mr. Hildersham Mr. Ball and such like did heretofore Intreat them to let you know how they excuse thewselves from the guilt not only of withdrawing themselves from our Communion which they call Negative Schism but also of making an head against us and drawing themselves into a distinct and opposite Body and setting up a Church against a Church which they call Positive and Schism by way of Eminency Ask them which of the four Causes of Separation they alledge to make their Departures from us necessary What we have done that should make it unlawful for them to communicate with us or rather How we have separated our selves from Jesus Christ and made him disown us If they be not able to give you very good satisfaction in this and in all the rest I hope you see what you are to do according to their own Advice and Counsel N. C. I suppose they will say that they are persecuted which will justifie their separation C. I cannot imagine what they should pretend unless it be this But bid them shew you what hath befalen them that should deserve that name And likewise shew that the Persecution is grievous nay intolerable for else they have told you it will not warrant