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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A41329	The plea of the children of believing-parents for their interest in Abraham's covenant, their right to church-member-ship with their parents, and consequently their title to baptism. The cause of publishing this discourse after so many learned men have laboured in this province, is declared in the preface to the reader. By Giles Firmin.	Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.	1683 (1683)	Wing F960; ESTC R216413	52,287	130

no question had all those Authors which my Author quotes that wrote before him if not many more which we have not And did not that learned pious Father understand them as well as my Author or any Anabaptist now in England And though he was no Christian himself yet was not he acquainted with the practice of the Greek Churches in his time better than our Anabaptists Now he saith the practice of Infant-baptism was so universal in the Church Austin l. 1. de peccat mer. renis c. 26. De baptis contra Denat l. 2. c. 7. l. 4. c. 24. that it could not but come from the Apostles Ecclesia semper habuit c. The Church ever heard it saith he Had not Austin spoke true there was one did watch him Pelagius who would have told him of it to purpose for that Practice stood in Pelagius's way but Pelagius did not deny it And whereas my Author doth not regard the Writers as to this Controversie that wrote after the Third Centuary I am very confident there is no Author that wrote in the three first Centuaries that have any thing in them to oppose the baptizing of the Infants of believing Parents but on the contrary some of them speak for it They that read the most ancient Writers next the Apostles may see the subject matter they treated upon did not give them any occasion to speak of Infant-Baptism they had other Points in hand As to the old Britains I was a little startled to read them brought against Infant-Baptism the Proof my Author brings out of Fabianus I did read in him but I much question the truth of Fabianus because Mr. Fox giving us an account what Austin the Monk required of the British Bishops when he came into England tells us He required that they should Preach the Gospel to the English-men and that they should among themselves reform certain Rites and usages in their Church specially for keeping Eastertide and Baptizing after the manner of Rome Mr. Fox quotes several Authors besides Fabianus for this But that passage That they should give Christendom to children which Fabianus reports he doth not mention To Baptize after the manner of Rome to use their Ceremonies in Baptism and to baptize Children differ much I searched what Ceremonies were then used in Rome in Gregory's time and no wonder though the British Bishops rejected them But that the old Britains were against Infant-Baptism is very false which I thus prove What year God first sent the Gospel into England the Learned do not agree there seem to be strong grounds to believe that it was before King Lucius sent to Eleutherius B. of Rome some say it was An. 156 others 169 others 170 others 180. The Contest between Austin and Pelagius was about 417 in the 63 year of Austins life as Bucolcerus gathers Pelagius denied Original Sin upon that denied Infant-Baptism as being superfluous not because Infants cannot believe which is the sole Argument of our Anabaptists Pelagius a learned man would have slighted such an Argument as this Austin proves Infants to be guilty of Original Sin from the universal practice of the Church to take away Original Sin they did baptize Infants Now this Infant-baptism saith Austin The Church ever had it ever held it De verb. Apo. Ser. 10. they received this from the faith of their Ancestors and this will it keep with perseverance to the end Let Pelagius who was a Britain answer this Britany had received the Gospel 240 years before this Contest Pelagius knew the practice of his own Country and if it had been true that the old Britains did not baptize Infants as my Author saith why did not Pelagius Confute Austin charge him with falshood the Britains do not baptize Infants ergo it is not the practice of the Universal Church This being an Argument Austin did so urge and put so much stress upon it Pelagius would have removed it if he could But so far was Pelagius and his followers from denying what Austin affirmed that Celestius a Pelagian in a Book which he put ●orth at Rome hath these words which Austin quotes out of it We do confess that Infants ought to be baptized for remission of sins according to the rule of the Vniversal Church and according to the sentence of the Gospel ●hough Caelestius do not mention the Text ●et by the following words we may plain●y see he means John 3.5 Except a man be ●orn again of Water and of the Spirit So that according to this Pelagian here is Scripture ground and the Rule of the Vniversal Church for Infant-Baptism So then for the old Britains they were not against Infant-baptism Now then for the Waldenses were I to charge any Opinion or practice upon other Churches I should first look to the Confession of their Faith then I may boldly charge them or not As we have a few Anabaptistical Writers in England should their Books a hundred years hence fall into the hands of Anabaptists in foreign parts should they then assirm that the Church of England or the Churches in England were Anabaptists would not this be false and take it as a wrong done unto us View the Confession of Faith of the Church of England of the Assembly of Divines of the Independents in England in New England all their Confessions declare for Infant-baptism Thus should my Author have done if he would deal honestly with the Waldenses produce their Confession of Faith and the Article in which they condemn Infant-baptism In the Articles which I have read over I find no such thing but that Baptism ought to be Administred only with pure Water without any mixture of hallowed Oyl The Ministers in the Vallies of Piemont in the year 1532 when the Anabaptists in Germany were risen up in the 17th Article of their Confession declare for Infant-baptism The Churches in those Vallies kept chaste to Christ from the Apostles times and were long before the Waldenses were named they were called Waldenses but this was a Nick-name put upon them by their Adversaries to make the World believe that their Religion was but a Novelty Morland p. 12. In the Confession of the Faith of the Waldenses in Bohemia so Vergerius three times calls them the 12th Article Declares for Infant-baptism Anno 1535. As the Anabaptists rose up so the Churches drew up their Confessions against them The Ministers in their Preface to their Confession write That some malicious Spirits because they would cast all the Odium upon them that they could did reckon them amongst the Anabaptists But they answer Nos ex factione Anabaptistarum non esse nemini ignotum est All men know they were none of that Faction nor had any thing to do with the Anabaptists The Doctrine they confessed in their Churches they held and owned before the name of the Anabaptists was so much as heard of So that my Author hath plainly abused both the old Britains and the Waldenses

Baptism was never so strongly opposed nor better defended than it hath been within these forty yearts in this English Nation I think there is enough Written to satisfie the minds of sober Christians but the Enemy of the Church is not yet quiet nor will be till the Church Militant becomes Triumphant A difference we may observe between Christians now and those in former times in England since I can remember How wary were they then what Doctrines they received Tho' they would not pin their Faith upon any Mans Sleeve yet they would consider what Persons they were for soundest of Faith and Holiness in Conversation from whom they would receive any Doctrine which hath made me wonder many times how this Doctrine of Anti-Pado Baptism which was first hatch'd in the Brain of that Notorious Heretick for so upon search I find him Auxentius Chereshed by Pelagius and afterwards revived by Men of corrupt Minds and lewd Conversations as that Learned and Pious Martyr Mr. Philpot tells his Fellow Prisoner in Newgate That this wretched Doctrine as Mr. Thomas Hooker calls it should fi●● entertainment in the Hearts of any truly Godly as it hath done in England of late At this as I said I have wondered For this was not the frame of the Right Old English Puritans they would have abhorred the Doctrine for the Authors sake Good Mr. Jessey I knew between 50 and 60 years since but then I heard of no Inclination this way and one I have met with truly Pious sound in all other Points humble made no noise of his Opinion whither Re-baptised I cannot tell with him we held Communion in the Holy Supper To me it seems strange and so strange that I will never believe it That Christ should Promise his Spirit to his Church and that good Spirit should suffer both his Martyrs and choice People to err in such a Point if it be an Error from the Apostles days to this day Since the Reformation I believe England Scotland and Ireland have through Gods Rich Grace afforded as many Holy Heavenly Gracious and Learned Men as any Nations under the Sun As smart Enemies to Mystical Babylon of which the Anabaptists tells us Infant-Baptism is a Relique as any Anabaptists can be and have done more against that Babylon than all the Anabaptists that ever were or shall be have done or can do and till of late years I never heard of one what others have done I know not that did approve but did detest this Doctrine till our unhappy Wars in which time and since that time this Doctrine is much spread May I have leave to inquire what should occasion the spreading of this Opinion in this Nation besides the Soveraign pleasure of God who for wise ends may suffer a Gracious Man to err in some particular I have thought of these Causes First The first and chief Reason was even good Men did not improve their Father-Abrahams-Covenant nor their Infant-Baptism Covenant as they ought Hence not improving these they did not experience the goodness of God in them and our advantage by them Then no wonder tho' Men in times of Dispute and Temptations be at a loss and come at last to deny that which others who have improved and experienced have found to be a greater priviledge advantage and support to their Souls under their fears and other temptations Experiences you say unless well grounded upon Scriptures are but deluding Fancies I know it very well therefore the grounds have been well weighed On the other side tho' the Scriptures be plain yet the Gospel and things apprehended only by Faith are such and Temptations about them especially in some Men so strong that if a Man hath not attained to some experience of what he doth believe if his Faith hath not brought in some Spiritual Sense in the Hurricanes of long and strong Temptations a Mans Faith will be terribly shaken in the very Gospel it self The wind having blown at that Door before I could not but take special notice of what the worthy Author of the Book Intituled The fulfilling of Scriptures hath told us concerning that Holy Man and Eminent Servant of Christ Mr. Bruce telling his People I think it to be a greater matter to believe there is a God than people judge p. 430. The same Author speaking about Experience from his own Experience I doubt not how it helps to Witness that great Truth of Godhead p. 111. in the next Page 112. speaks thus It is not the Contemplation of Nature in its highest flight can answer such an Assault of the Devil which may try the most Established Christian Adult in the being of a God c. but then he shews how Experience of God helps the Soul Whether these be not Truths I leave it to those who have been long exercised with these Temptations now if in that Point as to the being of a God than much more as to Gospel Truths that no wonder the Apostle Prays that Beleivers may abound in all Knowledge and Sense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Phil. 9. we read Judgment but the Greek word and so the Margent tells you is Sense The Arabick word is very significant Grotius and Gomarus understand by Sense Experience Hemmingius and Zanchie opens the word excellently Some Men are exercised with Temptations exceedingly more than others and God is pleased to be more Dark or exceeding Dark to some over he is to others which hath made me often think and say It is only Divine Teaching and the experimental Sense of what is taught that can make a sound Christian bear up and hold to the Word in the time of long and sore Temptations I could here give a very sad but true Story the like scarce ever heard before pertinent to the Point in hand but I fear the Devil would make ill use of it among tempted Christians and therefore I will not commit it to Writing To return to the Head I am upon If the Anabaptists say How can a Man improve a Nullity and get Experience of it Abrahams Covenant with the Seed of Believers now is Null Infant-Baptism is Null True I do not know how a Man can improve a Nullity But I doubt not there are many Anabaptists in England who lived several years before they drank in this Opinion of Anabaptism and in that time did not think Abrahams Covenant nor their Infant-Baptism to be Null many of them also had Parents not only visible but real Christians I appeal to their Consciences did you in that time before you drank in this Opinion improve the Covenant and your Infant-Baptism did you mind these did you meditate well upon them did you believe them upon these Meditations and Faith did you follow God close and earnestly in Prayer for the benefits of them and tho' you met with Temptations yet did you hold on and what did God give you in nothing no support no relief no comfort from these did you find no advantage to your Souls